Donald Trump Indicted on 7 Counts

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://jackmillercenter.org/fourteenth-amendment/

Excerpt:

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

[Stavros]

I know this, but I am sure I read something else about anyone trying to stop the work of Congress.

[filghy2]

I know this, but I am sure I read something else about anyone trying to stop the work of Congress.

Most of those convicted over January 6 where charged with conspiracy to obstruct Congressional proceedings rather than sedition. That may be what you are thinking of.

[Stavros]

Thanks as I realize now it was the word sedition I was thinking of, and this:

"Currently, the federal government criminalizes seditious conspiracy in 18 U.S.C. § 2384, which states, “[i]f two or more persons in [the U.S.], conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.” "
sedition | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

If the individuals who smashed their way into the Capitol have been found guilty of sedition, can it also be applied to the man who encouraged them or even the Vice President to prevent the Certification -a legal act under the Constitution- from taking place?

When is free speech not just an attack on some idea of the US, but embedded in an act that attempts to prevent the process of law?

[Stavros]

Is anyone surprised that Trump has decided other people should pay his fines?

A 'GoFundMe' page has been set up by the wife of a real estate businessman, Grant Cardone but while $409,000 has been received so far the link below claims this will not even pay off the interest on the fine.
Donald Trump GoFundMe is Not Even Paying off the Interest on His Fine (newsweek.com)

A key point for me is that not only has Trump been in debt to some level for most of his business life, both he and his father have constructed buildings which, for the most part, used other people's money, most commonly through tax breaks from New York City, and loans from tax-payers and banks. It is one of the reasons why the Trump family were embedded in Democrat Party politics in New York -because it was financially beneficial for them to be so.
Trump’s hubris has brought about the downfall of his family’s business empire | Sidney Blumenthal | The Guardian

But what these aspects of Trump's business culture reveal, is a distinct absence of any discourse on 'Free Enterprise' and the rule of 'Market Forces'. I can understand the discourse in American politics on the relative powers of the State and the Citizen, but there is a distinct absence of the kind of arguments that formed the heart of Thatcher and Reagan's ideology, summed up in 'Markets Know Best' -for it seems to me that Trump is allergic to Free Enterprise if it means taking a risk with his capital when building an apartment block, or promoting a new product or services -again and again, he not only used and uses loans and tax breaks that minimise the volume of his own capital in the ventures, when they fail he recoups his losses from the tax payer through compensation legislation, indeed.

So he has lost a court case and has been fined, but is looking to other people to pay it.

That his properties are declining in value because the 'brand' is tainted, is no surprise, and it would be ironic if a man who values his personal wealth on those assets now has to admit they are worth much less, not because of market forces, but because of his criminal record.

Lastly, is it not illegal to use the Flag of the United States on a commodity for sale that is not the flag itself, that it is illegal to print the flag on a pair of trainers? Is this another 'I dare you to take me to court' tactic or does Trump genuinely not know the law? It may be another way of raising the money to pay his fine, but is it legal?
What Is the US Flag Code and Is Violating It Illegal? – NBC Connecticut

[Stavros]

I have been reading about this case, but I can't work out what the problem is -so what if Willis had/has an affair with another lawyer on the case? The case isn't about them, it is the argument that Trump broke election law in Georgia by trying to change the outcome of the vote. If for the sake of argument, Ms Willis dropped dead of a heart attack tonight, does the case die with her?

It just seems amazing to me that a President thinks he can ring up the election officials in any State and tell them to change the vote, while lying about the outcome and defaming the election workers who were only doing their job. Is it because the substance of the case are so compelling that Trump's lawyers have decided to derail the process through attacks on its personnel? And I guess that the two people concerned being Black is just 'coincidental'-??

Nathan Wade's ex-law partner expected to testify as defense aims to oust Fani Willis from Trump case (yahoo.com)

[Fitzcarraldo]

I have been reading about this case, but I can't work out what the problem is -so what if Willis had/has an affair with another lawyer on the case? The case isn't about them, it is the argument that Trump broke election law in Georgia by trying to change the outcome of the vote. If for the sake of argument, Ms Willis dropped dead of a heart attack tonight, does the case die with her?

It just seems amazing to me that a President thinks he can ring up the election officials in any State and tell them to change the vote, while lying about the outcome and defaming the election workers who were only doing their job. Is it because the substance of the case are so compelling that Trump's lawyers have decided to derail the process through attacks on its personnel? And I guess that the two people concerned being Black is just 'coincidental'-??

Nathan Wade's ex-law partner expected to testify as defense aims to oust Fani Willis from Trump case (yahoo.com)

I think it's just an attempt to smear the investigator.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

I have been reading about this case, but I can't work out what the problem is -so what if Willis had/has an affair with another lawyer on the case? The case isn't about them, it is the argument that Trump broke election law in Georgia by trying to change the outcome of the vote. If for the sake of argument, Ms Willis dropped dead of a heart attack tonight, does the case die with her?

It just seems amazing to me that a President thinks he can ring up the election officials in any State and tell them to change the vote, while lying about the outcome and defaming the election workers who were only doing their job. Is it because the substance of the case are so compelling that Trump's lawyers have decided to derail the process through attacks on its personnel? And I guess that the two people concerned being Black is just 'coincidental'-??

Nathan Wade's ex-law partner expected to testify as defense aims to oust Fani Willis from Trump case (yahoo.com)

Another attempt by Donald Trump and his Co-Conspirators to get the Case against them thrown out,an attempt that will backfire on them.

[Stavros]

Prime Minister of Hungary, Victor Orbán after visiting Trump in Mar-a-Lago (was this a breach of diplomatic protocol?) has lavished praise on the former, now indicted President, while re-writing history for his benefit, thus:

"During Trump's time in office, there was peace in the Middle East and Ukraine, and these wars would not exist today if he were leading the United States, Orban said in a message posted on Facebook.
Trump had "offered respect in the world and thus created the conditions for peace," according to Orban."
Hungary's Orban hails Trump as 'president of peace' after US meeting (yahoo.com)

That's odd -wasn't it Trump who bragged about defeating ISIS? How did the US do that, by talking?

And who bragged that US forces in action in Iraq had -with military violence- killed 'Caliph' Al-Baghdadi in Syria in 2019?

As for the role played in the defeat of ISIS by Russian and US Aerial bombardments in Syria and Iraq, and the crucial role in both played by Kurdish militias, is that not important enough to be acknowledged?

And who bragged about the killing -with military violence- of the head of Iran's Republican Guard, Qasem Suleimani, in Iraq in January 2020?

It was part of a sequence of warlike actions that were taking place at the time. Here is a short summary of some the moments that took place when according to Orbán the Middle East was 'at peace':

"The strike occurred during the 2019–2022 Persian Gulf crisis, which began after the U.S. withdrew from the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran in 2018, reimposed sanctions, and accused Iranian elements of fomenting a campaign to harass U.S. forces in the region in 2019. On 27 December 2019, the K-1 Air Base in Iraq, which hosts Iraqi and U.S. personnel, was attacked, killing an American contractor. The U.S. responded by launching airstrikes across Iraq and Syria, reportedly killing 25 Kata'ib Hezbollah militiamen. Days later, Shia militiamen and their supporters retaliated by attacking the U.S. embassy in the Green Zone."
Assassination of Qasem Soleimani - Wikipedia

As for the 'conditions of peace', was it not President Trump who not once in four years questioned Israel's Siege of Gaza, who increased tensions between Israel and the Palestinians by moving the US Embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem?

Was it not the business deal that Jared Kushner arranged between Israel and some of the Gulf States that has been cited as one of the causes of the explosion of war between Israel and the Palestinians that has shattered the 'Containment' strategy Netanyahu believed had worked in Israel's favour?

The war has undermined Israel's security, its financial situation, and peace between it and the Palestinians, while Hamas has provoked the most devastating assault on Palestinian life and property since 1948, with no end in sight.

And who surrendered to the Taliban, even giving them the date when US military forces would leave Afghanistan, a date honoured by President Biden? Peace in Afghanistan?

Far from creating the conditions for peace, x-President Trump paved the way for war through his provocative and incompetent actions, and inactions. Trump inherited an agenda that retained many of the longstanding issues in the Middle East that had not been dealt with or resolved. During his Presidency, his attempt to change that agenda through 'radical' actions failed.

Israel and Palestine are at war; there is no peace in Syria or Iraq; the war in Yemen has continued, indeed on one level expanded with Iranian backed Houthis now attacking shipping in the Red Sea; Lebanon is close to becoming a failed state

-Trump waged war in the Middle East and has blood on his hands. He can't waltz through the ballrooms of Florida with Orbán in arms and think isn't life great.

But he won't be indicted for the lives lost in the Middle East, though he will face the music for his domestic crimes. The sooner the better.

[Stavros]

In the first link, the possibility is discussed, that Donald Trump might file for Bankruptcy to delay -avoid?- coming up with the money he owes the citizens of New York City. In the UK it used to be a simple case that if an MP was declared Bankrupt he or she could not sit in the House of Commons or vote -the law has since been modified but the basic position is that you can't become an MP if bankrupt so I wonder why in the US there has not been a similar provision in the Constitution to bar from standing any candidate who is Bankrupt, and I would also have hoped they could have added that the candidate should not be in debt to x amount of dollars.
In other words, Trump could declare himself bankrupt and still run indeed, be elected President? A Bankrupt President -the irony!
The link also suggests that while he may own outright some of the properties in NYC, he may also be in debt due to mortgaging or some other leveraging not publicly disclosed, while in other cases he only owns a percentage of the real estate= hence the proposition that in reality Trump's asset values might not be as high as he claims when you drill into the numbers.
Could Trump be forced into bankruptcy? Hear why former investment banker thinks so (yahoo.com)

The other link is to a statement made by one of Trump's lawyers, Alina Habba regarding the New York property judgment-

""It is intentionally to interfere in the election, to hurt President Trump, to try and ruin his company, and ruin a person and a family whose private company, not public company, has made the skyline of New York changed forever," Habba added."
Fox News Asks Alina Habba If Donald Trump's Bond Will Come From Russia (newsweek.com)

Did Trump change the skyline of New York -surely she means Manhattan?- 'forever'? And was that dramatic change the work of a private company all on its own, led by its visionary CEO? Or were the buildings Trump -and Habba- claim as his legacy, constructed using money from the taxpayer's of New York through construction loans Trump used, plus loans that Trump got from a bank or banks to pay the bills of the various companies -none owned by Trump- who did the actual construction, one of which, a cement company was owned as a legitimate business by two of the most notorious/famous Mafia Dons in the city, etc etc.

I haven't been to NYC for years now, but I was always struck by the diversity of its architecture, but also felt that those tall glass and concrete towers were the least interesting when set in the overall context of the city. There is more subtlety in many NYC buildings than the towers allow.

Do readers here have a favourite building? I detest the Guggenheim -a multi-storey car part masquerading as an art gallery. Grand Central Station has great sightlines depending on where you are standing and the time of day. It's a tough one to unpack though.