So real men don't drink Bud Light?

[Faenon]

I am kind of in shock at some of the posts in this thread. I can't believe anyone who frequents this forum could be generally supportive and quote WOKE (which is just a term used for bigots to legitimise their bigotry) to the right wing loons that are using this to fuel their hate.

Whatever you think about Dylan is irrelevant, the issue here is much greater, it's one where transphobic, rhetoric and hate is being platformed, there are threats of violence over a persons being used by a few companies to promote their products, it's down right ridiculous and a danger to a already persecuted community.

We who admire trans women should be supporting the community not enabling those with hate filled agendas to propagate their bigotry. I am shocked and disappointed with folks in this thread.

I remain in awe of he strength of trans women to have the bravery to come out to the world and show it what they truly are when this world is so full of pretty horrid people.

I have no desire to debate further, I will not respond further so don't bother trying to justify your stance. This is very much a drop the mic post but I had to get this off my chest. Shame on you.

[broncofan]

I know that people can have different views on things like female sports without necessarily being transphobic, but if you can't answer yes to these questions then I can't see how you can possibly be sympathetic to trans.

This is the core of what I object to most here. He is using the fact that some activists have said some extreme things about issues that are worthy of thoughtful discussion as an excuse to ignore flagrant transphobia. If a Jewish person in one situation says something is antisemitic when it's not, would that justify defending unambiguous antisemitism when you see it? Ditto a Black person, a Muslim, a gay man, etc. It is an excuse because people are capable of discernment. It really reminds me of the twitter users who underneath every news article about a hate crime will post an old article about the rare time that there was a false flag on that same kind of hate. It is underhanded and dishonest.

It would be one thing if he said he wasn't sure whether transgender women have an unfair physical advantage in sports over cisgender women and you'd like to discuss it. But if he wanted to do that, he'd do that and wouldn't do more. But he is doing more. He's supporting a boycott of a beer because a transgender woman is part of their promotional campaign. That implies that transgender representation is unwholesome, or embarrassing, or should be discouraged. You really can't defend it and be sympathetic to the community.

I also don't buy that it was shoved down anyone's throat. The only time I saw anything about it was from the right-wing outrage machine. But the issue here is very straightforward. Look at your excellent second question? Are transgender people permitted the same visibility in public, the same representation in public roles as everyone else or will we always find an excuse and say, "I'm not against them but this is being forced on us." Well fuck. Any time anyone appears in an ad they are being forced on us but if we don't object to their appearance in the ad, life goes on and we buy the product or we don't.

[broncofan]

Not much of a fuss would have been made if Caitlyn Jenner or even RuPaul was featured in the advertising, and beer sales might have actually increased.

Rupaul is not a transgender woman but is a drag queen. So basically you're saying that Caitlyn Jenner is the one transgender woman who is permitted to hold a public role. Everything you say in this post is belied by the fact that the comments section under every right-wing article about a transgender politician or public figure is filled with contempt. People calling mtf transsexuals men, calling them delusional, and just making spiteful comments. I've also seen the twitter feeds of right-wing commentators with over a million followers doing the exact same thing. I don't know who you think you're fooling. The objection of many within this right-wing subculture is to the presence of transgender men or women either in serious roles or in advertisements of things they like.

[Stavros]

All American Citizens Are Equal Before the Law. Discuss.

[natina]

There are a bunch of hashtags going around
Like

"
people still can not change their sex.


#TransIsALie
#TranswomanAreConMen

"

[filghy2]

So basically you're saying that Caitlyn Jenner is the one transgender woman who is permitted to hold a public role.

And also happens to be a Republican supporter. Is the premise that the only trans right-wingers will accept are those that are on their side?

I could maybe understand the woke agenda argument if they had partnered with a trans rights activist. However, the only controversial thing about Dylan Mulvaney seems to be the fact that she's trans.

Suppose Bud Light had partnered with, say, a disabled person who had a big social media following. Would we be hearing a lot of fuss about woke agendas forcing disabled people down their throats and how this had nothing to do with selling beer? I don't think so.

[filghy2]

This is the core of what I object to most here. He is using the fact that some activists have said some extreme things about issues that are worthy of thoughtful discussion as an excuse to ignore flagrant transphobia.

I wonder what the thinking process is behind his constant refrain about provoking a backlash? Is he suggesting these people start off thinking trans people are fine and shouldn't be abused or discriminated against; they see Lia Thomas or some trans activist and decide that abuse or discrimination against trans are okay after all?

There's a lot of victim-blaming going on here. The fault is not with the transphobes; the fault is with trans for doing things that provoke them.

[broncofan]

I wonder what the thinking process is behind his constant refrain about provoking a backlash? Is he suggesting these people start off thinking trans people are fine and shouldn't be abused or discriminated against; they see Lia Thomas or some trans activist and decide that abuse or discrimination against trans are okay after all?

There's a lot of victim-blaming going on here. The fault is not with the transphobes; the fault is with trans for doing things that provoke them.

I think that's the facade. They imply they would have no problem with transsexuals if not for a position that some individual took that really ticked them off. And whichever person they're currently mistreating doesn't even have to be the person who ticked them off because it's backlash. The problem for them is that we can see the tweets of tens of thousands of so-called moderate Republicans calling the transgender U.S. Assistant secretary for health every name in the book and creating unflattering memes to mock her for being transsexual.

They're pretending this is marginal stuff and there's this very reasonable, yet silent majority who are just fed up with seeing a transgender person once every several months (they think the interval should be longer).

I'm telling you since Elon got ahold of twitter, every civil rights organization on there gets trolled by not just groypers, but lots of Republicans posting under their own names. To them, all of these organizations are the cause of bigotry, and they're justified in spewing all sorts of inflammatory, misleading, subliterate nonsense at them because they caused the.......ummm backlash.

[broncofan]

They imply they would have no problem with transsexuals if not for a position that some individual took that really ticked them off. And whichever person they're currently mistreating doesn't even have to be the person who ticked them off because it's backlash.

Not that this would be okay anyway because it's bigotry to blame a member of a group for the actions of some other member of that group. But in this case it doesn't even makes sense. The malice has always been there.

[filghy2]

They're pretending this is marginal stuff and there's this very reasonable, yet silent majority who are just fed up with seeing a transgender person once every several months (they think the interval should be longer).

This is the essence of the problem in the US. The supposedly normal, decent Republicans (as mildcigar clearly thinks he is) excuse all sorts of bad behaviour on their side because they've been conditioned to see the world in 'us vs them' terms. Things they don't like are not a normal part of a pluralistic society, but are as result of malign conspiracies (eg the 'woke' corporations). This liberates the worst aspects in many people, because they no longer have to fear any negative consequences from their own side.