Charlamagne Tha God rejects activists using ‘transphobic’ label

[Stavros]

Kids don’t give a F about gender shit till it became a big deal with adults.

There is a lot to unpack from this one sentence, and not enough space to debate it. I think you will agree that adults have been controlling, or trying to control children's lives in all its aspects for centuries, and that for some this is endemic in capitalist societies as well as dictatorships. It may be a good thing to both warn children of the dangers of drink and drugs, and use the law to make it hard for children to access them, but with sex the battlefield is littered with the corpses of good intentions, and bad ones. Indeed, so fraught with dangers is sexuality in children most people prefer not to talk about it, while those who do, either are paedophiles or concerned with it, on the basis that there can be no 'natural' interest in child sexuality, if it involves an adult, and I think most people would agree with this.

Whether or not the interest in trans issues is new or old, I think we can at least agree that social media, which did not exist when I was a child, has and is having a significant impact on the lives young people lead, through the availability of information and images, some of which may worry parents, and cause anxiety in young people as they are uncensored, or censored, or manipulated -perhaps crucially, untrustworthy. One need only think of the material that denies the effectiveness of vaccines to get a perspective on the anarchy of ideas out there.

All I suggest is that we have been here before, whether it is the arguments from the 1930s and later, of Wilhelm Reich, or the controversy over The Little Red School Book of the 1970s, and the current maintenance mostly by elderly white men, of a code of morals that is intended to protect children, often from the sins they have themselves committed in their past, with repression and dictatorship the mode of governance on such things.

I don't have an answer that is satisfactory, other than that medical procedures that cannot be reversed need to be carefully considered before being adopted, while the concern for the anxieties being expressed by the child may need more than drugs and prosthetics, while responsibility in social media cannot be effectively legislated and is the wild card in this topic.

The godfather of the sexual revolution? | BPS

The Little Red Schoolbook - Wikipedia

[filghy2]

Kids don’t give a F about gender shit till it became a big deal with adults.

I can see why you chose your username.

[thombergeron]

...
I'm simply saying people come up with stuff to fit their narrative all the time. That includes trying to paint a certain pic of things. But you have to be careful. Cause if you don't live in areas where stuff is going on then it becomes easy to believe that nothing is happening. These stories are just some that around the country.

Literally every time you scratch a transphobe you find somebody with no comprehension of science or empiricism.

Frequently a total lack of self-awareness also.

[thombergeron]

There is a lot to unpack from this one sentence, and not enough space to debate it. I think you will agree that adults have been controlling, or trying to control children's lives in all its aspects for centuries, and that for some this is endemic in capitalist societies as well as dictatorships.
...

A couple of responses to these points:

Modern conceptions of gender are culturally imposed. Anthropologists have recorded myriad variations of gender identity throughout human history and in some modern non-western cultures. Binary gender identities are an attempt to culturally contextualize distinct physiological features, but as we can see very clearly from people experiencing gender dysphoria, it's an inadequate attempt. In fact, we have good evidence that the imposition of traditional gender norms frequently results in poorer health: https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1...196-8/fulltext

Also, I realize that this is going to be difficult for users of this forum to digest, but gender identity and sexual identity are two different things. Providing an accepting space for children to explore their developing identities in no way implies that they should be having sex. People who have a hard time making this very obvious distinction are creepy and should not be trusted around any children.

Finally, there are vanishingly few medical transition procedures that cannot be reversed. A study was released just today showing that transwomen who have undergone hormone therapy can restore spermatogenesis. You can count the number of 16-18 year-olds in the US each year having their gonads removed on one hand. Those kids have qualified for SRS after having already undergone years of less intrusive gender-affirming care. And at this point, gender reassignment clinics all have robust fertility preservation practices.

[ELDERGOD]

There is a lot to unpack from this one sentence, and not enough space to debate it. I think you will agree that adults have been controlling, or trying to control children's lives in all its aspects for centuries, and that for some this is endemic in capitalist societies as well as dictatorships. It may be a good thing to both warn children of the dangers of drink and drugs, and use the law to make it hard for children to access them, but with sex the battlefield is littered with the corpses of good intentions, and bad ones. Indeed, so fraught with dangers is sexuality in children most people prefer not to talk about it, while those who do, either are paedophiles or concerned with it, on the basis that there can be no 'natural' interest in child sexuality, if it involves an adult, and I think most people would agree with this.

Whether or not the interest in trans issues is new or old, I think we can at least agree that social media, which did not exist when I was a child, has and is having a significant impact on the lives young people lead, through the availability of information and images, some of which may worry parents, and cause anxiety in young people as they are uncensored, or censored, or manipulated -perhaps crucially, untrustworthy. One need only think of the material that denies the effectiveness of vaccines to get a perspective on the anarchy of ideas out there.

All I suggest is that we have been here before, whether it is the arguments from the 1930s and later, of Wilhelm Reich, or the controversy over The Little Red School Book of the 1970s, and the current maintenance mostly by elderly white men, of a code of morals that is intended to protect children, often from the sins they have themselves committed in their past, with repression and dictatorship the mode of governance on such things.

I don't have an answer that is satisfactory, other than that medical procedures that cannot be reversed need to be carefully considered before being adopted, while the concern for the anxieties being expressed by the child may need more than drugs and prosthetics, while responsibility in social media cannot be effectively legislated and is the wild card in this topic.

The godfather of the sexual revolution? | BPS

The Little Red Schoolbook - Wikipedia

Great Post

[Stavros]

And this is a good read too, touching on some important issues.

‘A contentious place’: the inside story of Tavistock’s NHS gender identity clinic | Transgender | The Guardian

[MrFanti]

13-year-olds are too young to be on social media, US surgeon general says
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Family/us...ry?id=96763885

This IMHO complicates the issue.

[Fitzcarraldo]

13-year-olds are too young to be on social media, US surgeon general says
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Family/us...ry?id=96763885

This IMHO complicates the issue.

But what does Charlamagne Tha God have to say about it?

[Luke Warm]

In half the US states, a person can get married at age 16 with no parental consent. In other states you can get married that young with parental consent. Two states set the minimum age at 15.

I don’t understand how a young person can be old enough to decide to get married at 16 with no parental consent, but they are not considered old enough to decide their own gender even with parental consent?? It’s a contradiction based on bigotry, I believe.

Something else that wasn’t mentioned… telling young people that they need to “wait” before getting medical care like puberty blockers means that they will have worse outcomes from their transitions, by the time states like Florida allow them to to transition. Transitions for these people will be more expensive and more difficult because they will need more surgery to address the changes that could have been prevented. And some changes (broader shoulders etc) are impossible to correct with surgery. So the “just wait” attitude actually permanently harms the trans youth who are clear about their own gender identity, but they are being blocked by the laws in the states where they live.

I heard there are 250 anti-transition laws being proposed around the US. It’s a small amount of youths who want to transition, but their lives are being used as a political football by politicians who are trying to use them to scare the general population and score cheap political points.

I remember it was just a few years ago that the exact same voices were rallying against gay marriage, saying that gay people will want to marry their car, or marry their horse. Here’s an idea… let people determine their own paths in life, and keep the State out of their private decisions.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I heard there are 250 anti-transition laws being proposed around the US. It’s a small amount of youths who want to transition, but their lives are being used as a political football by politicians who are trying to use them to scare the general population and score cheap political points.

This. They're literally the smallest, most-vulnerable minority.