Coe warns transgender athletes pose risk to integrity of women’s sport

[Stavros]

As the posts above show, confusion reigns.

1. Fairness vs Cheating
Fairness in sport is fundamental to its performance, which is why the governing bodies have had to introduce laws and penalties that deal with performance enhancing chemicals that can be used to replace fairness with cheating. For years it is not just testing that has become a routine part of competitive sport, but the development of and monitoring of new drugs that can give one sportsperson an advantage over others.

But are Transgendered athletes Cheating when they compete?

2. Hormones
With the M2F transgendered sportsperson, is it the case that part of the transition involves the male losing so much of their former attributes that their new Female body can no longer perform at the same level? Or is the argument that, even with hormone development, a M2F athlete will always have advantages over a female? Is it a case of how long the transition has been taking place, so, for example, Lia Thomas may win races today, but her ability to do so will decline as the levels of oestrogen in her body overwhelm the testosterone?

3. Rights in Law, Rights in Sport.
And, again on the Politics -if Transgendered people have equal rights under the law, and I believe in Liberal Democracies such as in Europe and North America, they do, is it both legally and morally just for Sports authorities to discriminate against Transgendered athletes, because their 'gender status' has become a matter of their 'chemical status' which the law has not defined in terms sufficient to accept or to ban them from competition?

As has been shown already in some US States, being Transgendered appears to immediately transform a Citizen with equal rights under the Constitution to a Citizen with Rights as Modified by the State, and it is not helped when individual Sports are in a similar dilemma where their regulations are being tested by issues of Gender Status that were not part of the regulations when they were created, and which for all the reasons above are difficult to resolve, without an outright ban on participation by Transgendered individuals

Can legal rights as a Citizen, be removed by Sports Authorities?

I see no easy answers to any of these issues, hence the confusion. Not helped by the hypocrisy of the Sports Authorities that for example, banned numerous individual sprinters from Jamaica, but not the entire team -for reasons we all know and understand-, while the official Russian teams in several sports have been banned, yet individuals from the country allowed to compete in a re-packaged 'Russian' team which is in effect the same as the one that was banned!

[MrFanti]

Question for you guys to debate.
Should the number of sports scholarships be increased by colleges and universities to account for transgender athletes?

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Cant change biology. They need their own league honestly

[iHeart_PONG]

As the posts above show, confusion reigns.

I don't think you understand the modern interpretation of the word transgender. A person does not need to be on hormones or have any gender affirming alterations to be trans. If a 6'0" tall muscular 16 year old male high school wrestler started dressing like a girl and changed to her/she pronouns, that person would be considered transgender and it would be unfair for that person to compete against 16 year old girls.

The unfortunate aspect of this is that you can't be sure that governing bodies of each sports league would judge each situation fairly so it has to be a legal issue.

[Luke Warm]

Cant change biology. They need their own league honestly

It’s a relatively tiny number of athletes… for example, according to the governor, only 5 transgender athletes competing in scholastic sports in the entire state of Utah. This issue is being driven by conservatives who believe they win on election day if they amplify ‘culture war’ issues like marriage equality, gay Teletubbies, Dr Seuss being canceled, etc. Even if these issues are bogus, or meaningless to 99% of the population. It’s about amplifying peoples’ fears, in order to gain or hold power.

[Luke Warm]

As the posts above show, confusion reigns.

Your florid prose does not add any clarity.

”Gender” is “boys wear blue, girls wear pink”. There is virtually nothing biological about it, it’s just conditioning. It has nothing to do with genitalia, hormonal profiles, etc.

The documentary “Bigger Stronger Faster” is good, if you are interested in how athletes (and others!) use performance enhancing drugs for a competitive advantage. Their use is widespread. (No transgender content in the documentary but it raises interesting points nonetheless)

[MrFanti]

It’s a relatively tiny number of athletes…

Be careful at how you spin this because the number of transgender individuals in reference to entire populations is quite small as well.
For reference, here's a number for you - We Black Americans are only roughly 13.5% of the US population.

[fred41]

Be careful at how you spin this because the number of transgender individuals in reference to entire populations is quite small as well.
For reference, here's a number for you - We Black Americans are only roughly 13.5% of the US population.

Then you also have to subtract the FtM transgender athletes, because they don’t have the same affect as MtF athletes do….but it doesn’t matter the size of the grouping because all it takes is a few. In some sports the difference might be negligible, but in swimming height and wingspan clearly make a difference. Obviously, there would be very little difference, I would think, if the FTM transgender student went on hormone therapy before or during puberty, but that is not the norm…as far as certain women’s sports go, perhaps that should be a requirement. Even one person can make a difference, because it would deny someone else a placing in future sports and a possible scholarship.If I was a woman or had daughters in college I might feel stronger about that…but considering this site has almost no Cisgender women on it, I doubt you’ll get a good debate on this topic…especially since a huge section of opining members are single males who will probably remain single (and perhaps, childless), at least in the conventional sense, for most of their lives.

[dc_guy_75]

Like anyone gives two shits about women's athletics.

[Stavros]

I don't think you understand the modern interpretation of the word transgender. A person does not need to be on hormones or have any gender affirming alterations to be trans. If a 6'0" tall muscular 16 year old male high school wrestler started dressing like a girl and changed to her/she pronouns, that person would be considered transgender and it would be unfair for that person to compete against 16 year old girls.

But I do understand, I just don't agree with it, as your post indicates. For if a 6 foot tall wrestler called Joe wants to be known as Joanne and wants to wrestle girls who are five foot tall, then the question is whether or not in law, the rights of a citizen takes precedence over the rights as defined by the Sporting body that regulates wrestling. If they have a non-discrimination policy, they are in a bind.

The issue is again, Language and Science -based on the arguments I have seen here, a person can self-identify as a Martian and there is nothing that can be done about it, other than ridicule the person, which in itself invites the kind of discrimination public debate is trying to get rid of. And if the person genuinely believes they are Martian, maybe therapy can help.

But consider that in the UK Census in I think 2000, more than 100,000 people identified their religion as 'Jedi'. That to me is comical, at least, and not important, but when the issue becomes one of Men and Women and the spaces we occupy, and don't occupy, and all the other issues on debate here, I think we reach a point where either Language has meaning because, collectively we agree on what those meanings are, or we are losing the most important component of humanity that binds us all together.

I can understand the pathetic need of Republicans and alt-right lunatics to drag in issues they don't approve of an insist it is part of some 'existential conflict' for the soul of America/Western Civilization or whatever their hammer is draped in, but there are real issues here, and I find a lot of the language used is, well, confusing.