Build Back Better? Bitch Please!

[Nick Danger]

So you think the Biden administration's Build Back Better plan is a big winner. Gonna fix the ecosystem, feed the poor, house the homeless, heal the sick, and babysit the kids all at the same time. Well, here's the conservative view of the various inclusions. Keep in mind that these are billions of dollars we're talking about here, a single $billion being virtually impossible for the average citizen to wrap his brain around. Try.

$555 Billion for clean-energy subsidies. This is actually one of the least egregious parts of the bill. It's designed to provide financial incentive for private citizens to move away from carbon emitting products, and for manufacturers to provide more carbon-efficient products. It will almost certainly result in more electric cars on the road and more solar panels on roofs. It will also create a "Civilian Conservation Corps," i.e. a very expensive joke on the American public. Still, if the bill were just this, it would be something worth re-writing and passing.

$400 Billion for universal pre-K. This is where things start to get scary. They've got your child's mind to mold for 12 years no matter what you do. Now they'll have him for 15 and the extra 3 years they're getting are the most formative years of all. Also, this is socialism, plain and simple. I.E., I don't have any kids so why the fuck am I paying for your daycare problem? Maybe should have thought about that before you decided to get knocked up by a deadbeat.

$200 Billion for child tax credits. Again, socialism. Welfare. I didn't have your children, you did. Now pay. I'm not going to be the one welcoming your grandchildren. I do not give a shit about your children. They may be cute now but 95% of the time they're just going to grow up to be one more asshole in an ocean of assholes. YOU give a shit. No one else does.

$200 Billion for 4 weeks of paid maternity/paternity leave. Eh, actually I'm kind of in favor of this sooo...

$165 Billion for expanding Obamacare. I'm also in favor of socialized medicine now that I've witnessed the U.S. pharmaceutical juggernaut utterly fail to create an effective vaccine for Covid, sooo...

$150 Billion for affordable housing. Socialism. You need a government house? How about a government car? And a government breakfast, government gas, government coffee, government lunch, government snack, government childcare, government healthcare; hell, after all that you ought to be able to buy yourself a nice dinner! No? Government dinner too? You, uh, do realize that I'm paying for all that right? WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU IF I GO AWAY? Do you have any personal pride whatsoever?

None of this has to be pushed through Congress collectively. Each and every section of the bill could easily be considered its own issue and be legislated separately. But that would eliminate a shit-ton of government graft.

All this is to be accomplished by raising taxes on corporations and the self-employed. What do corporations do when you raise their taxes? Move to another country. What do the self-employed do when you raise their taxes? Move their money to another country. The USA - Land of the Tax Exiles and Home of the Charity Cases? Only if the Financial Suicide Bill passes the Senate.

[filghy2]

Keep in mind that these are billions of dollars we're talking about here, a single $billion being virtually impossible for the average citizen to wrap his brain around. Try.

Easy. US GDP is currently $23 trillion. A billion dollars is only 0.004% of that. I'm pretty sure those are 10-year totals, so what you've listed there is just 0.6% of GDP over that period. Not exactly turning the US into a socialist state.

[Nick Danger]

Easy. US GDP is currently $23 trillion. A billion dollars is only 0.004% of that. I'm pretty sure those are 10-year totals, so what you've listed there is just 0.6% of GDP over that period. Not exactly turning the US into a socialist state.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what it costs us to house, feed, medicate, and provide babysitters for the lazy and unmotivated, it's a relatively small portion of the budget, that's true. The point is that it's AVAILABLE to these people. Living off of other people's tax dollars SHOULDN'T BE AN OPTION AT ALL. If it weren't, lazy people would be forced to do the things they're otherwise too lazy to do. It's a simple philosophical issue, not a budgetary one. There's this mass delusion that it takes something special to become financially independent in the USA. Simply not true, all that's required is hard work and personal responsibility. Liberals are asking us to participate in the delusion that there's some excluded class. Well there is an excluded class - lazy people. Excluding lazy people is how we became the most powerful nation in the history of the planet.

[filghy2]

Well there is an excluded class - lazy people. Excluding lazy people is how we became the most powerful nation in the history of the planet.

If your country wants to stay in that position, perhaps it should focus more on excluding stupid people.

Most civilised countries do not take your simplistic viewpoint, and they manage to function quite well - in fact, better than the USA on many measures. All that constant striving to get ahead does not seem to make you a happier country.
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/202...rld-happiness/

[Nick Danger]

If your country wants to stay in that position, perhaps it should focus more on excluding stupid people.

Most civilised countries do not take your simplistic viewpoint, and they manage to function quite well - in fact, better than the USA on many measures. All that constant striving to get ahead does not seem to make you a happier country.
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/202...rld-happiness/

Well, let's be frank, Flighty, all your little Mom and Pop countries would be speaking Russian or Chinese now if it weren't for the good old American war machine, always looking for any excuse to find a little backwoods war and burn up some military hardware to boost the economy. And I doubt you're happier than me anyway, Flighty, you're always looking for something to complain about.

[filghy2]

And I doubt you're happier than me anyway, Flighty, you're always looking for something to complain about.

Lol, you are the one who seems to be plagued by various exaggerated fears and grievances, even though you apparently live a comfortable existence in one of the safest parts of the country. Rather than being grateful for your good fortune, you seem to be consumed by downwards envy about any of the less fortunate getting a penny of your taxes.

Goodwill to all men, Mr Scrooge? Bah humbug!!

[Nick Danger]

Lol, you are the one who seems to be plagued by various exaggerated fears and grievances, even though you apparently live a comfortable existence in one of the safest parts of the country. Rather than being grateful for your good fortune, you seem to be consumed by downwards envy about any of the less fortunate getting a penny of your taxes.

Goodwill to all men, Mr Scrooge? Bah humbug!!

I have to assume at this point that you're simply being obtuse, Flighty. The classic liberal spin on program politics is that Republicans are stingy and don't want to share their wealth with the poor, downtrodden Democrats. The reality is that we're the parents, Democrats are the children, and any money we try to withhold is in the interest of INCREASING the prosperity of the lower economic classes.

There have to be consequences for irresponsible living. Simple as that. Let children play for as long as they want and they will literally play until they fall out of a tree unconscious, I've done it before.

I do charity, Flighty. I donate to a few regularly, for tax reasons and also because I like to feel I'm contributing - the ASPCA gets more of my money than anyone else, I'm much more charitable to creatures who can't talk. Person-to-person I'm pretty generous, both with my time and my money. I'm the guy who will hold up everyone at the red light to buy one of those little newspapers from the homeless guy on the corner even if I already have a few copies of that issue littering my floorboard. When I go to Vegas I almost always dedicate an hour or so to finding the shittiest-looking bum I can find and dropping a c-note on him, I don't care that he's going to spend it on booze and crack, I want him to spend it on booze and crack, have a good day for once, by his own standards. I've been known to park at a homeless encampment and order 20 pizzas, and I've also camped out for a few hours and smoked weed and drank beer with the homeless, on my dime. Until a couple weeks ago I was working as a goddamn candy-striper at the local hospital 4 hours a week, because they put out the call and I had the time. Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, pee wee football, baseball, and soccer teams, high school and college kids of all races and genders, these are all people who have met with success on my front porch selling me whatever the fuck it was they were selling for whatever the fuck their cause is. I fix friends' cars for free if they're in a pinch. If I pass you broken down on the side of the road, I don't care if you're white, brown, black, yellow, purple, rich, poor, young, old, male, female, if I have time and my tools, I'll stop and try to get you rolling again. I'm not heartless, and I don't need anyone's opinion on whether I'm right about that or not. What I am is sensible.

And while you may very well represent the voice of the unmotivated masses, Flighty, most people are actually a lot like me. Working, paying bills, trying to get some exercise, going to clubs or concerts, taking trips, helping others AS SEEMS REASONABLE, but mostly just living life, because they've worked hard to reap life's little rewards, and quite little they are, Flighty, one hardly notices them after a few years as a responsible adult. And you know what those responsible, hard-working people want more than anything? To be left alone. Because they all know the reason you're in financial trouble is you and your choices. Not society, not your color, not your religion, not your gender, just you.

[filghy2]

I have to assume at this point that you're simply being obtuse, Flighty. The classic liberal spin on program politics is that Republicans are stingy and don't want to share their wealth with the poor, downtrodden Democrats. The reality is that we're the parents, Democrats are the children, and any money we try to withhold is in the interest of INCREASING the prosperity of the lower economic classes.

Again, you ignore the empirical point that every other developed country is more generous is assisting people with lower incomes, yet they have not ended up with more poverty. In fact, the US has much more inequality than most other developed countries, which seems to give the lie to your claim that limiting benefits helps the poor.

Your personal generosity is commendable, but it seems a bit contradictory. If you don't want the government giving people money because it only makes them lazy and irresponsible, why does the same thing not apply to you giving them money or other things. Giving $100 to a random homeless guy sounds like the least effective way to help the poor. You say you are happy for him to spend it on booze or crack, but what would your attitude be if a welfare recipient did the same?

[Nick Danger]

Again, you ignore the empirical point that every other developed country is more generous is assisting people with lower incomes, yet they have not ended up with more poverty. In fact, the US has much more inequality than most other developed countries, which seems to give the lie to your claim that limiting benefits helps the poor.

Your personal generosity is commendable, but it seems a bit contradictory. If you don't want the government giving people money because it only makes them lazy and irresponsible, why does the same thing not apply to you giving them money or other things. Giving $100 to a random homeless guy sounds like the least effective way to help the poor. You say you are happy for him to spend it on booze or crack, but what would your attitude be if a welfare recipient did the same?

Welfare checks come once a month, Flighty. I never come around again. There's a difference. People can live off welfare but they can't live off me.

Frankly, even though I do tend to apply a lot of my personal charitable feelings toward the homeless, I've never felt particularly compelled to help them better their lives. I want them to. But that's this whole project that involves real internal change and a lot of transitional processes, and I'm not interested in undertaking that project. What I do know about a homeless guy I see is that he's hurting, and I can ease his pain for a little while. I see a group and I can feed them. Or I can hang out for a while and treat them like humans, like no one else has that day. I mean, the here and now is where life is being lived, I can't change your life but I can be here now.

Edit: Sorry forgot to address your first point. I really think you should move away from holding up American-supported European countries as models of how not to be like America. Yeah, you guys have plenty of peace and prosperity and equality and all that. Meanwhile we have a devil's bargain to keep. On your behalf.

[broncofan]

Nick, you are not averse to sharing personal details and while I'm not asking for anything really specific, what kind of tax is it that you are fearing? I don't love material things as much as the average person but do like being comfortable and being able to buy what I want without stress (in addition to paying for necessities and out of pocket healthcare costs). What kind of tax is changing your standard of living? I never understand this.

I never shared this but I own some commercial real estate. The number of tax benefits and write-offs that our tax code provides is unreal. If for instance depreciation schedules were not as aggressive or the irs changed how much could be written off as 5 or 15 year property my taxes would be different. My life wouldn't. And frankly, I'm not paying attention to every penny the government spends but if my tax dollars could buy healthcare for people or student loan forgiveness or disability payments wouldn't we be a better country?