Covid-19 Politics

[blackchubby38]

The two places that I'm happy to see reopening the most are movie theaters (for selfish reasons) and schools. The latter is because I got the feeling that if the teachers' unions would had their way, schools would have stayed closed until September.

[Stavros]

The two places that I'm happy to see reopening the most are movie theaters (for selfish reasons) and schools. The latter is because I got the feeling that if the teachers' unions would had their way, schools would have stayed closed until September.

But would you not agree that schoolteachers should be vaccinated before the schools re-opened? I am not sure if all teachers in New York (state and city) have, or just some. Younger teachers might not be at risk, older ones who are say, in their 50s but not yet vaccinated, maybe.

Last nght on BBC-2's Newsnight, a Professor at the London Schoo of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine said it was too early for the UK to consider the kind of 'Green App' or Vaccine passport as has been trialled in Israel, for three reasons:

1) Studies have yet to be completed and peer reviewed to determine if vaccinated people are still liable to be infected and thus become carriers of the virus;
2) the majority of the population has not been vaccinated; and
3) we still do not know how long the effectiveness of the vaccine lasts.

The British Govt is phasing in the relaxation of rules to take account of no 2) on the basis that once the majority of people, notably those in the most vulnerable categories are vaccinated, the overall risk of infection and hospitalization is reduced. Thus, this week, beginning on March 8, schools re-opened (though I am not sure most teachers here have been vaccinated, though schools are staggering the return of classrooms perhaps to deal with this), some university students who need face-to-face learning are returning to their studies; one relative can visit another in a care home, and "people can leave home for recreation outdoors such as a coffee or picnic with their household or support bubble, or with one person outside their household".

The rest of the phases look like this:
From the 29th March
"Outdoor gatherings of either 6 people or 2 households will be allowed, providing greater flexibility for families to see each other. This includes in private gardens. Outdoor sports facilities, such as tennis and basketball courts, will be allowed to reopen, and people can take part in formally organised outdoor sports.
At this point, the Stay at Home order will end, although many lockdown restrictions will remain.
For example, you should continue to work from home where possible, and overseas travel remains banned, aside for a small number of reasons."

From the 12th of April

• Non-essential retail, personal care premises, such as hairdressers and nail salons, and public buildings, such as libraries and community centres, will reopen.
• Most outdoor attractions and settings, including zoos, and theme parks, will also reopen although wider social contact rules will apply in these settings to prevent indoor mixing between different households. Drive-in cinemas and drive-in performances will also be permitted.
• Indoor leisure facilities, such as gyms and swimming pools, will also reopen - but only for use by people on their own or with their household.
• Hospitality venues can serve people outdoors only. There will be no need for customers to order a substantial meal with alcohol, and no curfew - although customers must order, eat and drink while seated.
• Self-contained accommodation, such as holiday lets, where indoor facilities are not shared with other households, can also reopen.
• Funerals can continue with up to 30 people, and the numbers able to attend weddings, receptions and commemorative events such as wakes will rise to 15 (from 6).

From the 17th May

• Outdoors, most social contact rules will be lifted - although gatherings of over 30 people will remain illegal.
• Outdoor performances such as outdoor cinemas, outdoor theatres and outdoor cinemas can reopen.. Indoors, the rule of 6 or 2 households will apply - although we will keep under review whether it is safe to increase this.
• Indoor hospitality, entertainment venues such as cinemas and soft play areas, the rest of the accommodation sector, and indoor adult group sports and exercise classes will also reopen.
• Larger performances and sporting events in indoor venues with a capacity of 1,000 people or half-full (whichever is lower) will also be allowed, as will those in outdoor venues with a capacity of 4000 people or half-full (whichever is lower).
• In the largest outdoor seated venues where crowds can spread out, up to 10,000 people will be able to attend (or a quarter-full, whichever is lower).
• Up to 30 people will be able to attend weddings, receptions and wakes, as well as funerals. Other life events that will be permitted include bar mitzvahs and christenings.

From the 21st of June

• t is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.
• We hope to reopen nightclubs, and lift restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3.
• This will also guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...n-restrictions

The plan is based on the assumptions that there will not be a new surge of cases, hospitalizations and deaths, that people will behave with reason, but cruciallly, that the vaccination programme will be effective, though the point I referred to at the beginning of this post still applies, though one assumes research will not take that long to find out how effective the vaccine is.

Thus, the news from parts of Europe sounds depressing, but:

"Several European countries have either suspended inoculations with the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine or banned the use of a specific batch as a precautionary measure after blood clots formed in some people who had received the jab.
Both the Anglo-Swedish drug maker and Europe’s medicines regulator said the vaccine was safe as Denmark, Norway and Iceland announced on Thursday they were temporarily halting all AstraZeneca vaccinations to investigate the cases.
...Stephen Evans, professor of pharmacoepidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, told Reuters that the decision to suspend the shots was “a super-cautious approach based on some isolated reports in Europe”.
The problem with “spontaneous reports of suspected adverse reactions to vaccines is the enormous difficulty of distinguishing a causal effect from a coincidence”, Evans said, adding that Covid-19 was strongly associated with blood clotting."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...d-clot-reports

We still have a long way to go, and are not as risky as the Governor of Texas who has lifted the mask mandate in the State even though only 16% of the population has been vaccinated.

[Stavros]

The two places that I'm happy to see reopening the most are movie theaters (for selfish reasons) .

Not germane to the thread, but what are you hoping to see at the movies? The BAFTA list was released this week and I haven't seen any of the films with nominations, a) because the cinemas are closed, and b) because I don't susbscribe to streaming channels.

As this is Poltics & Religion though, I would like to see Judas and the Black Messiah, though I believe the film avoids delving into Fred Hampton's Marxism (or was it Marxism-Leninism -not the same thing- ??).

Though risky for a while, I too want to be back in the cinema, and the Concert Hall, given that I have boycotted Covent Garden and can't go to opera houses in Europe and probably not until next year at the earliest.

[Stavros]

"Ireland is suspending use of the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine as a precautionary measure following further reports of blood clots in people who have received it, this time from Norway.
The deputy chief medical officer, Dr Ronan Glynn, said Ireland’s advisory body on vaccines had recommended that deployment of the AstraZeneca jab should be “temporarily deferred” with immediate effect. He stressed, though, that there was no proof that the vaccine had caused blood clots."

Like most of the people vaccinated in the UK I have had no problem with the AstraZeneca vaccine, but the key problem might be in this observation with regard to younger people, most of whom,not in front line servives, have yet to be vaccinated in the UK-

"Prof Karina Butler, the head of Ireland’s National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC), said it was acting out of an abundance of caution but wanted to know more about the unexpected cluster of “very serious” clotting events in younger people; Norway said this happened in people under 50. In three cases, it had involved clotting in the brain. In one of them, it was fatal."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-clot-concerns

[broncofan]

"Ireland is suspending use of the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine as a precautionary measure following further reports of blood clots in people who have received it, this time from Norway.
The deputy chief medical officer, Dr Ronan Glynn, said Ireland’s advisory body on vaccines had recommended that deployment of the AstraZeneca jab should be “temporarily deferred” with immediate effect. He stressed, though, that there was no proof that the vaccine had caused blood clots."

As this quote says it remains to be seen whether it is the result of the vaccine and not something that occurs rarely but at approximately the same rate in the general population. The vaccine has been administered to a lot of people, but it could be a very rare side effect.

If it is the result of the vaccine I am curious whether it is something tied to a defect in production or is inherent to the design of the vaccine. Maybe it is tied to certain batches or conditions those batches were in. We'll see what the scientists find.

[blackchubby38]

But would you not agree that schoolteachers should be vaccinated before the schools re-opened? I am not sure if all teachers in New York (state and city) have, or just some. Younger teachers might not be at risk, older ones who are say, in their 50s but not yet vaccinated, maybe.

Last nght on BBC-2's Newsnight, a Professor at the London Schoo of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine said it was too early for the UK to consider the kind of 'Green App' or Vaccine passport as has been trialled in Israel, for three reasons:

1) Studies have yet to be completed and peer reviewed to determine if vaccinated people are still liable to be infected and thus become carriers of the virus;
2) the majority of the population has not been vaccinated; and
3) we still do not know how long the effectiveness of the vaccine lasts.

The British Govt is phasing in the relaxation of rules to take account of no 2) on the basis that once the majority of people, notably those in the most vulnerable categories are vaccinated, the overall risk of infection and hospitalization is reduced. Thus, this week, beginning on March 8, schools re-opened (though I am not sure most teachers here have been vaccinated, though schools are staggering the return of classrooms perhaps to deal with this), some university students who need face-to-face learning are returning to their studies; one relative can visit another in a care home, and "people can leave home for recreation outdoors such as a coffee or picnic with their household or support bubble, or with one person outside their household".

The rest of the phases look like this:
From the 29th March
"Outdoor gatherings of either 6 people or 2 households will be allowed, providing greater flexibility for families to see each other. This includes in private gardens. Outdoor sports facilities, such as tennis and basketball courts, will be allowed to reopen, and people can take part in formally organised outdoor sports.
At this point, the Stay at Home order will end, although many lockdown restrictions will remain.
For example, you should continue to work from home where possible, and overseas travel remains banned, aside for a small number of reasons."

From the 12th of April

• Non-essential retail, personal care premises, such as hairdressers and nail salons, and public buildings, such as libraries and community centres, will reopen.
• Most outdoor attractions and settings, including zoos, and theme parks, will also reopen although wider social contact rules will apply in these settings to prevent indoor mixing between different households. Drive-in cinemas and drive-in performances will also be permitted.
• Indoor leisure facilities, such as gyms and swimming pools, will also reopen - but only for use by people on their own or with their household.
• Hospitality venues can serve people outdoors only. There will be no need for customers to order a substantial meal with alcohol, and no curfew - although customers must order, eat and drink while seated.
• Self-contained accommodation, such as holiday lets, where indoor facilities are not shared with other households, can also reopen.
• Funerals can continue with up to 30 people, and the numbers able to attend weddings, receptions and commemorative events such as wakes will rise to 15 (from 6).

From the 17th May

• Outdoors, most social contact rules will be lifted - although gatherings of over 30 people will remain illegal.
• Outdoor performances such as outdoor cinemas, outdoor theatres and outdoor cinemas can reopen.. Indoors, the rule of 6 or 2 households will apply - although we will keep under review whether it is safe to increase this.
• Indoor hospitality, entertainment venues such as cinemas and soft play areas, the rest of the accommodation sector, and indoor adult group sports and exercise classes will also reopen.
• Larger performances and sporting events in indoor venues with a capacity of 1,000 people or half-full (whichever is lower) will also be allowed, as will those in outdoor venues with a capacity of 4000 people or half-full (whichever is lower).
• In the largest outdoor seated venues where crowds can spread out, up to 10,000 people will be able to attend (or a quarter-full, whichever is lower).
• Up to 30 people will be able to attend weddings, receptions and wakes, as well as funerals. Other life events that will be permitted include bar mitzvahs and christenings.

From the 21st of June

• t is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.
• We hope to reopen nightclubs, and lift restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3.
• This will also guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...n-restrictions

The plan is based on the assumptions that there will not be a new surge of cases, hospitalizations and deaths, that people will behave with reason, but cruciallly, that the vaccination programme will be effective, though the point I referred to at the beginning of this post still applies, though one assumes research will not take that long to find out how effective the vaccine is.

Thus, the news from parts of Europe sounds depressing, but:

"Several European countries have either suspended inoculations with the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine or banned the use of a specific batch as a precautionary measure after blood clots formed in some people who had received the jab.
Both the Anglo-Swedish drug maker and Europe’s medicines regulator said the vaccine was safe as Denmark, Norway and Iceland announced on Thursday they were temporarily halting all AstraZeneca vaccinations to investigate the cases.
...Stephen Evans, professor of pharmacoepidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, told Reuters that the decision to suspend the shots was “a super-cautious approach based on some isolated reports in Europe”.
The problem with “spontaneous reports of suspected adverse reactions to vaccines is the enormous difficulty of distinguishing a causal effect from a coincidence”, Evans said, adding that Covid-19 was strongly associated with blood clotting."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...d-clot-reports

We still have a long way to go, and are not as risky as the Governor of Texas who has lifted the mask mandate in the State even though only 16% of the population has been vaccinated.

In a perfect world, I would say yes the teachers should be vaccinated before the schools are opened. But we don't live in a perfect world and considering the fact that there were many front line workers, retail and food service industry come to mind, that had to work during the pandemic and had even bigger risk of getting infected, than I think I teachers can do the same in a more controlled environment.


As for the teachers and other school officials who are over 50, hopefully they were in either the first or second wave of people who eligible to get vaccinated.

Another thing is this. When we talked about teachers prior to 2020, we often mentioned in them in the same breath as police officers, firefighters, EMS, doctors and other healthcare workers. You know the essential people who have been working over the past year to make sure our society doesn't completely fall apart. The risk they have faced/still face is probably higher than what teachers would be dealing with in classrooms.

I don't think the value of good teachers can be underestimated and I hope in the past year some parents realized that maybe it wasn't the teachers' fault that their precious little darling wasn't learning anything. But if they are an essential part of our society, then I think its time for them to return to the front lines.

Finally, I think the most important reason for children to return to full time in-person learning is because the impact the pandemic has had not only on their educational development, but their physical, social, and mental as well. Last year, the American Association of Pediatrics said that it was pertinent that children return to in person learning

[blackchubby38]

In a perfect world, I would say yes the teachers should be vaccinated before the schools are opened. But we don't live in a perfect world and considering the fact that there were many front line workers, retail and food service industry come to mind, that had to work during the pandemic and had even bigger risk of getting infected, than I think I teachers can do the same in a more controlled environment.


As for the teachers and other school officials who are over 50, hopefully they were in either the first or second wave of people who eligible to get vaccinated.

Another thing is this. When we talked about teachers prior to 2020, we often mentioned in them in the same breath as police officers, firefighters, EMS, doctors and other healthcare workers. You know the essential people who have been working over the past year to make sure our society doesn't completely fall apart. The risk they have faced/still face is probably higher than what teachers would be dealing with in classrooms.

I don't think the value of good teachers can be underestimated and I hope in the past year some parents realized that maybe it wasn't the teachers' fault that their precious little darling wasn't learning anything. But if they are an essential part of our society, then I think its time for them to return to the front lines.

Finally, I think the most important reason for children to return to full time in-person learning is because the impact the pandemic has had not only on their educational development, but their physical, social, and mental as well. Last year, the American Association of Pediatrics said that it was pertinent that children return to in person learning.

Just to finish that post off.

If we are supposed to listen to the doctors and the scientists, then we should be listening to all of them. If the data says that its safe for children to return to full time in person learning, that its important that they do, and its what parents and children want, as well as many elected officials, then I say its time.

[blackchubby38]

Man, when people pile on, they really do pile on:

De Blasio blames Gov. Cuomo for not closing NYC sooner as COVID-19 spread



nypost.com/2021/03/14/de-blasio-blames-cuomo-for-not-closing-nyc-sooner-as-covid-spread/

[blackchubby38]

Not germane to the thread, but what are you hoping to see at the movies? The BAFTA list was released this week and I haven't seen any of the films with nominations, a) because the cinemas are closed, and b) because I don't susbscribe to streaming channels.

As this is Poltics & Religion though, I would like to see Judas and the Black Messiah, though I believe the film avoids delving into Fred Hampton's Marxism (or was it Marxism-Leninism -not the same thing- ??).

Though risky for a while, I too want to be back in the cinema, and the Concert Hall, given that I have boycotted Covent Garden and can't go to opera houses in Europe and probably not until next year at the earliest.

Since it was leaving HBO Max tonight, I decided to watch Judas and the Black Messiah. Its one of those movies that I would have seen at home anyway. I thought the movie was good, but the acting of both Daniel Kaluuya and Lakeith Stanfield was fantastic.

The film does not avoid delving into Hampton's Marxism. Although he seemed to be more into Maoism than Marxism.

My plan is to go see Godzilla vs Kong in the theaters at the end of the month.

[fred41]

Another thing is this. When we talked about teachers prior to 2020, we often mentioned in them in the same breath as police officers, firefighters, EMS, doctors and other healthcare workers. You know the essential people who have been working over the past year to make sure our society doesn't completely fall apart. The risk they have faced/still face is probably higher than what teachers would be dealing with in classrooms.

Public school teachers have irrevocably allowed their unions to destroy their “brand”. They will never again be uttered in the same vein as those other jobs and the blame lies squarely on their own shoulders. From now on , they will be considered as just “another civil service job”... (which, in major cities like NY, is mostly what they were to begin with). It’s also become quite obvious to folks that believe their own eyes and ears, that the teacher’s unions own the Democratic Party at this point.