Covid-19 Politics

[broncofan]

We can ignore the comparisons of Justin Trudeau with Hitler and other dictators, most people don't take that seriously, but when it comes to the Rule of Law, you have a serious problem when the concept of the 'Sovereign Citizen' is used. To me this appears to be an indivdual deciding what the law is, and not Congress, or the Supreme Court or even the local police, if they disagree with something, or protest in such a way that appears to either break the law, or interfere with other people's lives- they not only choose to behave in this way, they believe they have a Right to do so.

It is a peculiar form of solipsism that would not stand up to scrutiny in any Court, but what it also does is register the alienation with the Rule of Law and the status quo that Trump has sought to change.

The idea of the unaccountable person is most dangerous if courts cannot function and laws can't be enforced. Before Trump was President I saw an appellate brief written pro se (meaning drafted by the defendant instead of a lawyer) that made the sovereign citizen argument. I have since seen a bunch of versions of it and read appeals courts decisions responding to it. My understanding is that they don't think courts have jurisdiction over them and they are not subject to laws they are prosecuted under. It is one of the few guaranteed ways to lose an appeal.

One version claims that if the courtroom's flag has fringe on it then the courtroom is really an admiralty court and they can only be prosecuted for acts committed on the high seas. Another version invokes the Uniform Commercial Code, which dictates the terms of contracts for goods. I can't remember what they claim the Uniform Commercial Code says about whether they can be prosecuted. On its terms it literally sets rules for contracts involving commercial sales of goods.

We are still at the point where regardless of political affiliation no Judge would accept this argument, though it's troubling that its general ethos has become absorbed by a lot of people. Likewise the arguments made by Trump's lawyers yesterday in NYC which I might write about later were also frivolous. He really does himself a disservice by not hiring good attorneys.

I'm hoping we don't get to a point where partisanship can erode even the most basic understanding of the law and how it applies. I suppose that the mainstreaming of science denying arguments show how easy it is for the truth to be lost and for people to give into wish fulfillment thinking.

[Stavros]

Fascinating post, but not mostly about Covid.

I think we can all agree that Science deals with facts and that the facts can change. But there is a world of difference between challenging a fact, and denying it, not least when those denying it have no interest in the science. Rand Paul strikes me as the example with his attacks on Dr Fauci, which he makes regardless of any fact, just to score points with those whom I suppose vote for him.

[broncofan]

So I am linking the article from JAMA of the most recent study of Ivermectin. The first I heard of it was in August of last year when there were studies that showed a lot of noise but not much supporting evidence. Most of the virologists I followed were pretty confident it would not be an effective treatment. When HCQ was studied over and over again its adherents would move the goalposts and say "now administer it with zinc", "administer it with large infusions of vitamin d". It was an enormous waste of research and the way it was pitched was appalling.

In this study it performed worse than placebo in preventing progression to severe disease. In short, just another negative study indicating it doesn't work as a covid treatment.

Note: even without access if you click "abstract" on the right side of your screen you can get the synopsis. You can actually get the rest of the study as well.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2789362?guestAccessKey=58760460-df0f-4790-9257-8f3682dca39b&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=r eferral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm _term=021822

[Ben]

Official New Covid Policy: Pretend It Isn’t Happening:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/02...snt-happening/

[Ben]

Experts urge US cities and states to prep for future outbreaks as Omicron slows:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...breaks-omicron

[blackchubby38]

This is going to be an interesting debate going forward. I wonder which side is going to win:


Moderna president: 4th vaccine dose only necessary for certain groups

ww.yahoo.com/news/moderna-president-4th-vaccine-dose-223458773.html



Pfizer CEO Says Fourth Covid Vaccine Dose ‘Necessary’

www.yahoo.com/finance/m/7de0e984-db82-3a28-9182-6e01221b8ac0/pfizer-ceo-says-fourth-covid.html

[broncofan]

I've had three shots and got covid two weeks ago. We know there are plenty of breakthrough infections with omicron so this isn't surprising. I got infected at my nephew's bar mitzvah. It was the first time I've been in public without a mask, which I did out of pressure not to stand out at the party. At the synagogue everyone wore masks even when singing and I was pleased about that. The party was uncomfortable for me and sure enough...

Anyhow, I did not get super sick but it was probably the equivalent of the average flu for me even with three shots. I had fever, sore throat, headaches, and really crazy night sweats. No breathing problems. It's about two weeks later and I'm back to work a little tired. No lingering symptoms so I feel very fortunate that I was vaccinated.

[sukumvit boy]

Wow broncofan , I'm glad you're OK . Just think ,now
you should have 'super immunity ' . I too have had my 1st booster about 6 months ago but I'm continuing to wear a mask in enclosed spaces, even grosery shopping , etc
Studies show that immunity begins to wane about 8 months from your last immunization , the second booster has been approved but is not yet available here in WA state ,where I now live.

[Stavros]

I've had three shots and got covid two weeks ago. We know there are plenty of breakthrough infections with omicron so this isn't surprising. I got infected at my nephew's bar mitzvah. It was the first time I've been in public without a mask, which I did out of pressure not to stand out at the party. At the synagogue everyone wore masks even when singing and I was pleased about that. The party was uncomfortable for me and sure enough...

Anyhow, I did not get super sick but it was probably the equivalent of the average flu for me even with three shots. I had fever, sore throat, headaches, and really crazy night sweats. No breathing problems. It's about two weeks later and I'm back to work a little tired. No lingering symptoms so I feel very fortunate that I was vaccinated.

Sorry to hear about your illness. I think we may be moving to a bi-annual vaccination regime if, as seems to be the case, immunity from the first round of vaccinations wears off. The current variants may not be as lethal as the original virus, though people in my age group may need hospitalization, but as your post indicates, the infection is serious enough to stop everything.

Below is a link to current situation in UK, where there was a surge between January-March that may be tapering off this month. As with Sukumvit Boy, I wear a mask on transport and in shops, and wish more people would do so too.

Covid-19 in the UK: How many coronavirus cases are there in my area? - BBC News

[broncofan]

Wow broncofan , I'm glad you're OK . Just think ,now
you should have 'super immunity ' . I too have had my 1st booster about 6 months ago but I'm continuing to wear a mask in enclosed spaces, even grosery shopping , etc
Studies show that immunity begins to wane about 8 months from your last immunization , the second booster has been approved but is not yet available here in WA state ,where I now live.

Yes, I hope you're able to get your second booster soon. I will get one as soon as I'm eligible and it's available etc. I have to look into it. I also take the same approach you do with masks, whether in grocery stores, shops, even most workplace spaces. This was literally the one time I poke my head out. In fairness I was aware it was not a very safe event I was at and it was way out of my comfort zone.

Stavros, the first week I got a call from a charity I volunteer for. The lady who runs it previously had covid and it was so minor she was better a couple days after getting a little scratchy throat. She knew I had covid but wanted me to do some work for her and it's the first time I ever said no to her. I had what is potentially a deadly disease, yes I have some immunization, but I felt like shit, and told her I shouldn't be doing anything except resting until my symptoms were gone. She understood. I was glad I was able to get the same consideration from work.

I've given my parents links for availability of paxlovid were they to get sick. Biden had said pharmacies were going to have "test and treat" but I don't think it came to fruition completely. In some pharmacies maybe you can do that, others require a prescription is my understanding. Paxlovid is the drug that in high risk patients showed 88% reduction in hospitalization rate. The treatment cohort had 0 deaths compared to 10 in the placebo group but deaths was not the tested endpoint. Although highest risk patients are unvaccinated, there's no theoretical reason paxlovid would not also be helpful in vaccinated people and I think my parents would be eligible though this has not been communicated very well.