Doping in Sport

[Stavros]

A provocative set of claims from a boxer I admit I had never heard of before. Clearly there is a problem where some drugs replicate those chemicals already in the body, there are performance enhancing drugs that are not banned, some that are, with sports-persons knowing how to get round the rules. I don't know if we will ever get to the heart of the matter, and I am not sure how many people care, though I think in some individual sports, like Athletics it does matter, not so sure about team sports. Anyway, he does not name names, other than Lance Armstrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-make-a-living

[broncofan]

It's not always easy to test for these compounds but even taking excess doses of a hormone that the body makes is cheating and provides an unfair advantage to the athlete doing it. EPO taken in large amounts increases red blood cell count to dangerous levels but also increases the endurance of athletes. Testosterone supplements are probably less acutely dangerous but it's definitely performance enhancing and the rules against it should be enforced. I don't know what the answer to this is, but I just wanted to say I don't buy the distinction this person is making between hormones the body makes and synthetic substances.

If someone actually has a medical condition and a deficiency of some hormone they can get clearance to take it, as long as their abuse of the substance didn't cause it. A lot of former steroid users have hypogonadism, but they probably should not the ones getting an exemption to use.

It's definitely an interesting subject. There are those who think it is too hard to enforce and should just be a free for all, but that kind of makes it tough for those who want to compete but don't want to take hormones and chemicals in unsafe amounts.

[MrFanti]

Interesting...
I have a FTM transgender friend of mine that takes male hormones and is huge......He currently plays amateur football with genetic males.

[Stavros]

Interesting...
I have a FTM transgender friend of mine that takes male hormones and is huge......He currently plays amateur football with genetic males.

I think the moral point would ask if an athlete is taking 'banned substances' in order to gain an advantage over others, or if, in this case, a transendered athlete is gaining muscle mass and strength as a result of hormones taken for non-competitive reasons. I think the dilemmas in sport posed by Caster Semenya, a different case from those taking 'banned substances' or hormones, has no happy outcome, and I suspect the only practical solution is to ban transgered athletes from competition if they can be shown to have an unfair advantage over their fellow competitors which is the basis of the rules as they currently are.

[MrFanti]

I think the moral point would ask if an athlete is taking 'banned substances' in order to gain an advantage over others, or if, in this case, a transendered athlete is gaining muscle mass and strength as a result of hormones taken for non-competitive reasons. I think the dilemmas in sport posed by Caster Semenya, a different case from those taking 'banned substances' or hormones, has no happy outcome, and I suspect the only practical solution is to ban transgered athletes from competition if they can be shown to have an unfair advantage over their fellow competitors which is the basis of the rules as they currently are.

One thing that some genetic women have issues with MTF athletes is the general height advantage that the average male-born individual has over the genetic female when it comes to sports such as volleyball and basketball.
But to circle back on topic - doping with regards to FTM is an interesting one....

I would debate that most individuals within this forum, generally speaking, look at the transgender community with a heavy MTF bias.

[Stavros]

I agree with your last point, but with regard to the former, be it MtF or FtM, how common is this, in reality, in sport? It seems to me that it is not common at all, but that it appears to be a problem when the sport concerned is on TV being played at a senior competitive level. There is a lot of hysteria around at the moment as 'Conservatives' attack all forms of 'Liberal' ideas which include the claim that there is no longer any value to being Male.

The real issue is- why are so many athletes taking performance enhancing substances, including legal ones? It means that at the senior level, few competitors do not use them, whereas the concept of the athlete endowed with natural abilities and a will to win take second place to the athlete as a chemical marvel driven by an obsession.

[MrFanti]

The real issue is- why are so many athletes taking performance enhancing substances, including legal ones? It means that at the senior level, few competitors do not use them, whereas the concept of the athlete endowed with natural abilities and a will to win take second place to the athlete as a chemical marvel driven by an obsession.

It is the drive to win at all costs...regardless of the rules
We see this in all walks of life...the phenomena is not isolated to sports.

[Stavros]

What do we win, when we win, what do they win when they win? I was raised to believe, and when doing sport at school and in the local park, believed, that taking part was the most important thing. Because sport and exercise are good for the body and the mind, and indeed, the obsession with winning, and winning at all costs is not something I enjoy when watching sport, to which one adds the concept of 'fair play'. In football (Soccer) it means deploring so-called 'professional fouls', but is thus also part of the reason why when we find out more or less all of the Jamaican Athletics teams has tested positive for banned substances, one man is not, and the team is not suspended from competition, because he is such a major money earner.

There are other moral issues too, notably with regard to Boxing -these days, Don King would never have been released from prison for murder (was it one, or two?) let alone be given a licence to promote Boxing tournaments, yet there he is in the record books, unfit to represent anyone, and to what extent involved in fixing fights in the days when the Mafia ran the sport in the US? I just can't take Boxing seriously as a sport, so deep has its roots been in organized crime. Or, as we were reminded when Alan Minter died this past week or so, the links between Boxing in the UK and the 'far right' in political movements and the shocking scenes that attended the end of the fight between Minter and 'Marvellous' Martin Hagler. The irony being that a preserve of English Nationalists and Fascists exists because the first promoters of British Boxing in the early years of the 20th century were East End Jews.

The lack of purity is the problem, that people in sports might have a natural ability, but seem to need to enhance it. Hence the oddity of the transgendered athlete, who personally has no choice if he or she is to thrive, using the same system that others do, but is condemned for it in ways the others are not In effect, everyone is morally compromised, and we either accept that athletes are going to use substances to improve their performance, or remain passive hypocrites -or stop watching, and sponsorig sports we consider to be corrupt.

[MrFanti]

What do we win, when we win, what do they win when they win? I was raised to believe, and when doing sport at school and in the local park, believed, that taking part was the most important thing. Because sport and exercise are good for the body and the mind, and indeed, the obsession with winning, and winning at all costs is not something I enjoy when watching sport, to which one adds the concept of 'fair play'. In football (Soccer) it means deploring so-called 'professional fouls', but is thus also part of the reason why when we find out more or less all of the Jamaican Athletics teams has tested positive for banned substances, one man is not, and the team is not suspended from competition, because he is such a major money earner.

There are other moral issues too, notably with regard to Boxing -these days, Don King would never have been released from prison for murder (was it one, or two?) let alone be given a licence to promote Boxing tournaments, yet there he is in the record books, unfit to represent anyone, and to what extent involved in fixing fights in the days when the Mafia ran the sport in the US? I just can't take Boxing seriously as a sport, so deep has its roots been in organized crime. Or, as we were reminded when Alan Minter died this past week or so, the links between Boxing in the UK and the 'far right' in political movements and the shocking scenes that attended the end of the fight between Minter and 'Marvellous' Martin Hagler. The irony being that a preserve of English Nationalists and Fascists exists because the first promoters of British Boxing in the early years of the 20th century were East End Jews.

The lack of purity is the problem, that people in sports might have a natural ability, but seem to need to enhance it. Hence the oddity of the transgendered athlete, who personally has no choice if he or she is to thrive, using the same system that others do, but is condemned for it in ways the others are not In effect, everyone is morally compromised, and we either accept that athletes are going to use substances to improve their performance, or remain passive hypocrites -or stop watching, and sponsorig sports we consider to be corrupt.

While I understand exactly how you were raised, the PRO athlete does not think the same way. This is why doping has been around for DECADES....yes, DECADES....

[sidney111]

I used to watch the Tour de France in the 1980s and 90s before the drugs scandals were public knowledge, but I really lost any interest in cycling in the 2010s when it became really apparent that it’s not the best rider who wins, but the best team at hiding the doping.