Coronavirus

[Stavros]

Most of the world has always listened to the so called Expert's and fake Media this whole Corona this is a sham and idiots all fell for it it showed how quickly the whole human race will bow down and become Sheep, allowed all the stores and jobs to be closed churches hiding in their homes wearing dumb masks. Most humans are weak mindless fools and this once again proved it, as an Occultist I know the whole human History taught in schools is wrong and we have been falling for fake news since the written word! Im so fed up over this i recently beat a security guard with a chair in a libary for harassing me over my mask I had it over my mouth but not my nose there wasn't anyone with in 20 feet of me and 6 is supposed to the so called distance needed and in tired of this already, I'll prob have to do a year or two in prison but it was fun beating him and letting my Corona aggression out so I could care less two years goes fast inside got about 18 all together in and out.

Guess you’ve been fucked by your chakras-?

[Stavros]

A real scientific discussion is suppressed. Everyone who wants to question the Corona narrative is insulted and censored. This gives the impression that there is no doubt about the narrative. This is exactly the opposite of scientificity...

From where I sit most of the insults and abuse have been directed by born again morons at people like Dr Fauci, an avoidance of scientific debate at every level, and not just courtesy of Matt Gaetz. Jonathan Tam was filmed answering pertinent questions from the public on Channel 4 News earlier this year, and multiple links to scholarly articles on Covid-19 have been provided in this discussion in the Politics & Religion section.

I fear you are on a futile quest for a scientific purity that doesn’t exist, and that whatever political bias you have has prevented you from separating the two. None of us benefits from this. Covid-19 is a virus, we understand how it works, we know how to mimimise its risks, we are aware of its actual and potential risks.

But as ever, a great deal depends on human behaviour. Vaccination and immunisation have ended the curse of Smallpox, it has all but eradicated or helped control diseases such as Polio, TB, River Blindness and many others, yet suddenly our cherished freedoms are at risk because a tried and tested regime is being imposed on us? Not as far as I am concerned.

[binneu]

You see you make a statement saying that but in the UK there were 457 deaths resulting from people contracting the virus.

Would you say that a beer is dangerous, or a cake? Do you know how many people die every year from alcoholism or diabetes? It seems to me that any proportionality and reason has been lost here!

When a new strain of a disease presents itself which is highly transmissible then the authorities would have to act quickly and perhaps in a somewhat draconian fashion to control that transmission while a remedy is sought.

Oh, so does the state have to? Who says that? I did not ask him for it! Should the state now eliminate any risk in life and protect you from everything that could threaten you?
That is not the task of the state! The state has to make sure that the health care system works, that's what I pay it for with my taxes. That the state nowadays forbids me to leave my apartment at night is just presumptuous!

The World Health Organisation defined a severe case of Covid-19 as the patient having severe pneumonia although there are other definitions by others related to respiratory rate etc.

In addition I found nothing! But you can gladly send me a link...

Lockdowns (measures) did work in the UK to at least some extent in reducing the spread of disease by reducing the R number to manageable rates thereby preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed.

Who says that? The people who have imposed these lockdowns? Look at the R-value of Germany: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/g...5-format43.jpg
The R-Was already at the low when the lockdown was imposed (March 23). And the mask duty was imposed right outside the chart, at the end of April.

[binneu]

From where I sit most of the insults and abuse have been directed by born again morons at people like Dr Fauci, an avoidance of scientific debate at every level, and not just courtesy of Matt Gaetz. Jonathan Tam was filmed answering pertinent questions from the public on Channel 4 News earlier this year, and multiple links to scholarly articles on Covid-19 have been provided in this discussion in the Politics & Religion section.

I am not aware of any insults or name-calling, nor will this occur, since the critics do not get a chance to speak in public.
In Germany, there was an "investigative committee" on the subject of Corona.However, this was held in camera, video and audio recordings were prohibited (there were only a few statements by journalists). Questions were asked only by a few politicians, there was no deep, scientific debate.

I fear you are on a futile quest for a scientific purity that doesn’t exist, and that whatever political bias you have has prevented you from separating the two. None of us benefits from this. Covid-19 is a virus, we understand how it works, we know how to mimimise its risks, we are aware of its actual and potential risks.

I am aware that "science" is always fraught with vagueness and uncertainty. Moreover, "science" is to a certain extent both politically influenceable and for sale (unfortunately). However, the one-sidedness and censorship in the case of Corona is unprecedented in recent times.
I am not aware of any insults or name-calling, nor will this occur, since the critics do not get a chance to speak in public.

But as ever, a great deal depends on human behaviour. Vaccination and immunisation have ended the curse of Smallpox, it has all but eradicated or helped control diseases such as Polio, TB, River Blindness and many others, yet suddenly our cherished freedoms are at risk because a tried and tested regime is being imposed on us? Not as far as I am concerned.

You can see that as you want! I can only tell you that the diseases mentioned have never needed coercion or restriction to end and that mRNA vaccines have never been widely used. Risks and long-term effects are simply unknown. You can see this from the fact that just a few months ago we were promised "freedom" and "cure" after the second vaccination. And today, a few months later, they are already talking about the third and fourth vaccination.
And what do you want to do with the people who refuse? Do you want to deny them grocery shopping, take away their jobs, lock them up, kick down their doors and vaccinate them by force? At what point does it become totalitarian? Or have we already arrived...

[binneu]

[rodinuk]

Would you say that a beer is dangerous, or a cake? Do you know how many people die every year from alcoholism or diabetes? It seems to me that any proportionality and reason has been lost here!

Yes I do know for the UK.

Alcohol 2020 figures were 7423 deaths https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/res...ng-behaviour-1

Diabetes 2019 figures were 13,951 deaths
https://www.statista.com/topics/3132...nited-kingdom/

Coronavirus Feb 2019 to now is 156,888 deaths so 52,000+ yearly
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

The World Health Organisation defined a severe case of Covid-19 as the patient having severe pneumonia although there are other definitions by others related to respiratory rate etc.

In addition I found nothing! But you can gladly send me a link...

so here is the link for you...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76034120307401


The USA NationalInstitute of Health uses this empirical definition:

Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 <94% on room air at sea level, a ratio of arterial partial pressure of oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen (PaO2/FiO2) <300 mm Hg, respiratory frequency >30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...ical-spectrum/


Here’s a lady who didn’t opt for the jab:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-58481626

[Stavros]

I am not aware of any insults or name-calling, nor will this occur, since the critics do not get a chance to speak in public.

- House Representative Matt Gaetz described Dr Fauci as a “snivelling little twit”.

- Trump ridiculed Fauci as a "disaster" and an "idiot" who has been around for "500 years" -

Who silenced Nancy Messonier when she warned of the potential impact of Covid-19 on the USA?

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/cdc-pan...ent-access.php

And what do you want to do with the people who refuse? Do you want to deny them grocery shopping, take away their jobs, lock them up, kick down their doors and vaccinate them by force? At what point does it become totalitarian? Or have we already arrived...

- the rational person listens to the presentation of evidence. Some, perhaps many - too many- experience Covid-19 directly, or have experience of disease in the family, or are aware they have been vaccinated as children, their children have been vaccinated, and yes, listen to experts and the Government, just as I hope when your teeth ache you don’t seek the advice of a bricklayer.

But it seems that reason has taken a back seat in both the UK and the US, and as a consequence, people are ill, they are in hospital, some have died. Your call.

[binneu]

Yes I do know for the UK.

Alcohol 2020 figures were 7423 deaths https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/res...ng-behaviour-1

Diabetes 2019 figures were 13,951 deaths
https://www.statista.com/topics/3132...nited-kingdom/

Coronavirus Feb 2019 to now is 156,888 deaths so 52,000+ yearly
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths


so here is the link for you...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76034120307401


The USA NationalInstitute of Health uses this empirical definition:

Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 <94% on room air at sea level, a ratio of arterial partial pressure of oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen (PaO2/FiO2) <300 mm Hg, respiratory frequency >30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...ical-spectrum/


Here’s a lady who didn’t opt for the jab:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-58481626

I showed you the table from Germany. No more people died in 2020 than usual! In Germany, the deaths are even explicitly declared as having died WITH Corona (and not because of it).

And in England or Italy... I can't tell you conclusively what exactly happened there. I would like to know that too. But nobody seems to want to clarify why there were recognizable excess mortalities in some countries.
But there are indications that in the rush and panic there were massive mishandlings.
https://www.rubikon.news/artikel/die...enten-tragodie
You must also realize that, Corona does not seem to have taken place in half of the European countries?
(https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps)

I can only tell you that the simple story that the mainstream/politics tells us cannot be true! (Corona is new and extremely dangerous - in the short term only lockdowns, masks and dismantling of basic rights help - in the long term you must be vaccinated several times a year and constantly monitored - but the old normality will never come back)

Nevertheless, I can't see on the Israeli website what criteria are used to define the "serious cases".

[binneu]

I am not aware of any insults or name-calling, nor will this occur, since the critics do not get a chance to speak in public.

- House Representative Matt Gaetz described Dr Fauci as a “snivelling little twit”.

- Trump ridiculed Fauci as a "disaster" and an "idiot" who has been around for "500 years" -

Who silenced Nancy Messonier when she warned of the potential impact of Covid-19 on the USA?

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/cdc-pan...ent-access.php

And what do you want to do with the people who refuse? Do you want to deny them grocery shopping, take away their jobs, lock them up, kick down their doors and vaccinate them by force? At what point does it become totalitarian? Or have we already arrived...

- the rational person listens to the presentation of evidence. Some, perhaps many - too many- experience Covid-19 directly, or have experience of disease in the family, or are aware they have been vaccinated as children, their children have been vaccinated, and yes, listen to experts and the Government, just as I hope when your teeth ache you don’t seek the advice of a bricklayer.

But it seems that reason has taken a back seat in both the UK and the US, and as a consequence, people are ill, they are in hospital, some have died. Your call.

Who is Matt Gaetz?
Why isn't Fauci discussing this with Ioannidis or another scientist?

And in my eyes Fauci is, sorry, moron!
Who publicly equates himself with "the science" can hardly be called otherwise.

I have given them proofs for Germany! And I also listen to experts, just other experts than you!

[broncofan]

I repeat myself... in 2020 there were no vaccines in Germany and still no excess mortality! (have a look at my table)
And do not tell me the fairy tale of the measures! The measures should have worked in Germany but not in France and Spain, for example (there the measures were usually even stricter)? And it is also interesting that the measures have prevented the complete flu, but nevertheless millions of Corona cases could not prevent. Doesn't that make you a bit suspicious?

It doesn't make me suspicious because it's easy to explain why. Measures that are only somewhat effective for covid completely suppress flu. Flu has an r0 of about 1.3 while delta variant is estimated to be between 5 and 8.

Further, Germany did have excess mortality according to the table. It had 68,000 deaths more than usual but it was in the minority in that its excess deaths were less than its recorded covid deaths. Germany is not the only country in the world. Russia had 650,000 excess deaths, which was 500,000 more than its recorded covid deaths. Look at the numbers for Mexico and U.S. Between these three countries you had more than 800,000 more excess deaths than recorded covid cases.

Your trick is to ignore 90% of what is out there, to then make broad characterizations that are not true, and to emphasize the one or two data points that you think sow confusion. You are not the first person to do this.

You're called a conspiracy theorist because that is what you are. You believe doctors are fabricating cause of death or that you know better than they do and that governments somehow benefit from people wearing masks. Yet many right-wing authoritarian figures like Bolsonaro have been singing the same tune you're singing. If you add up the excess deaths in the chart I provided you there is not only enormous excess death on average, but greater excess death than recorded covid cases. This means that the 4.5 million recorded deaths is likely an underestimate.