UK election INCOMING

[Jericho]

You would think so, but who frames the debate?

Corbyn, loved wherever he goes, Johson, literally booed out of a hospital. Yet if I believed the msm, i would think it was the other way round.
I have been Labour my entire life, but If it hadn't been for 'social media', I'd be thinking about voting Plaid Cymru today (I couldn't vote for the SDP...Even tactically).

A recent story, a child treated on a hospital floor because there were no available beds. Within hours, a 'respected' journalist reporting it as 'fake' news (Ok, not that respected, she was from the Telegraph)
Attached to the same story, TWO major tv journalists reporting that a Labour THUG had attacked a Government advisor - Again, total bullshit they had to withdraw once, an only once, social media showed footage proving them wrong.

Over the last 5 years, I have seen things happening in/to the press I would never have believed possible in a so called 1st world country.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to vote...Labour.

[broncofan]

On social media Corbyn does seem more popular than Johnson. At rallies, Corbyn also seems to do very well. This can be an indication of the fervor with which someone is liked rather than how broad their appeal is, though it generally bodes well.

I do think Labour will do better than the polls indicate, though I have no way to know. I'm basing this somewhat on the last election, which tightened up at the end.

One thing I think Labour should consider is trying to find a way to unite people across the left. That doesn't mean ceding everything to people who don't want the kind of radical change that improves lives but finding a balance among the viewpoints that exist and building consensus.

The idea that someone who is not within the nuclear core of Corbyn's movement cannot offer constructive criticism is damaging to the party's ability to unite people around common causes.

Anyhow, I have been critical of Labour but if Labour wins then I will be really happy for the ways in which its policies can improve people's lives (see Jericho's post on the last page). If they are not successful, I will take no joy in it but do think it is an indication that there must be a way to unite factions and that some responsibility lies with Corbyn's most ardent supporters.

[Jericho]

I don't totally disagree, but, I wish it was just the divisions in the left that need uniting, It's the entire country.
I've tried writing a bunch of stuff down but it just turns into a bigger ramble than usual.
Suffice to say, if Labour lose, I'll be devastated.
Tomorrow will either be a red day or a black day in this country's history.

Anyway, I'm fried....Been watching the impeachment hearings for some light relief!!!

[filghy2]

The exit poll is suggesting a Tory landslide, unfortunately. One of the clear lessons of recent years is that there is far more support out there for nationalist/xenophopic views than might be apparent to people like us. Promoting division as a political strategy and seeking some 'other' to blame is clearly dominating over promoting unity and seeking comment ground.

I'm sure it will swing the other way eventually, but I fear that won't happen until the Trumps and mini-Trumps have led us into some kind of disaster that will take a long time to recover from. I've spent most of my life in the comfortable assumption that I would never have to face the sort of crises that our parents and grandparents experienced because we had learned how to avoid them. I'm increasingly less confident about that. If people forget the lessons of history we are doomed to repeat it.

[filghy2]

I don't want to diminish the role of poor leadership, but I wonder how much of the outcome is a product of Brexit fatigue. The Tories had a much simpler line on Brexit and I guess many people may have thought that this was the only way to end the uncertainty. That may be illusory, but it seems to be the perception.

I couldn't help noticing that the abbreviation for the Conservative Party on the BBC is "CON".

[Jericho]

I don't believe it.
We have elected a right wing, lying, racist, sociopath...Ring any bells?
Gutted!

[Stavros]

I don't believe it.
We have elected a right wing, lying, racist, sociopath...Ring any bells?
Gutted!

How can you be surprised?
-Where was Jeremy Corbyn during the 2016 Referendum Campaign, giving leadership to a clearly stated position, leave or remain? He was almost invisible, too embarrassed to point out that other than the Worker's Rights contained in the Social Chapter of the Single Market Act, he has campaigned against the UK's membership of the EU for most of his political life.
-When Jeremy Corbyn and his Cabinet said they would honour the result of the Referendum, did this not make Labour a Leave party? What other position could it take?
-And Labour en masse voted for the two key Acts of Parliament that enable the UK to leave the EU.
-But when Theresa May almost lost the election in 2017 Labour smelled the blood of a victim, and devised their 'six tests' on Brexit they knew Theresa May could not meet, so this Leave party in Parliament voted at every opportunity not to leave the EU.
-When Labour offered online membership at £3 a pop, over 500,000 members appeared from social media, without any vetting. How many of these people have the slightest idea what Labour stands for, what its traditions are, and how many joined in the same way they might join an online streaming service -and how many joined just to make themselves a nuisance?
-Jeremy Corbyn is not anti-Semitic, but because he doesn't believe there are so many in his party, he was not energized to fight it when it emerged to be a real problem. His leadership on the issue was pathetic, weak, all over the place. Compare Corbyn on the anti-semites -with Kinnock booting out Militant after 1983.
-Again and again, the people were confused. The Leave party that Labour was by 2019 had been transformed itself into a Leave/Remain party as if the glaring contradiction could not be seen. The 'internal logic' of a leader remaining neutral was lost on the general public. Corbyn came across again as a weak leader, lacking in clear positions on crucial issues like Brexit, utterly incapable of sustaining internal party criticism and maintaining a full throttle drive toward the proverbial brick wall.

He failed his party, he failed his country.

It was never about policy, of course people want more money spent on the NHS and Education. Do most people want something done to tackle rough sleepers, universal credit and poverty? Of course we do. On a range of social and economic issues, this election went begging for an alternative that Labour could not convince the people they had, so the people voted for the very party that has deprived them of what they wanted, but they voted for a simple slogan they believe in, rather than an opportunity to march into a foggy tunnel.

Of course I expect Boris Johnson to sign anything the EU puts in front of him, of course Brexit as it evolves next year will not be what the Nationalists want, but who now is going to stop Boris Johnson? And how will Labour re-invent itself as a party that people want to vote for, that has credible people at the top, and credible policies? And how long will it take? For every day Johnson, the first immigrant to become Prime Minister, is in office, the damages escalate, for all but his rich friends.

Labour either needs root and branch reform, or the UK needs a new left of centre party. We cannot go on like this.

[Jericho]

After nine years of austerity, we've voted for selfishness and xenophobia.
Surprised?...YEAH, kinda, but no, not really!

[filghy2]

After nine years of austerity, we've voted for selfishness and xenophobia.
Surprised?...YEAH, kinda, but no, not really!

I know you are flattened by the result, but are you seriously unwilling to engage in self-examination even after a disaster of this scale? If the majority of Labour members are going to circle the wagons and direct the blame everywhere else than the party then I'm afraid you are likely to be in the same position in 5 years time. What does it say about your party than the only election wins in the past 40 years came under a leader you regard as anathema?

One question I'm pondering is whether Boris Johnson is really a hard-right nationalist or whether he's just an opportunist who does whatever he thinks will advance his political interests. His pre-Brexit history didn't seem to suggest he was particularly right-wing and he did win two terms as mayor of London. The Brexit deal he agreed with the EU also suggests he may be more of a pragmatist than his recent rhetoric would suggest. I guess we'll find out over the coming period.

[filghy2]

How can you be surprised?

Perhaps you should be Stavros. In the Brexit thread less than 3 months ago you predicted confidently that Boris Johnson's days were numbered.