Just what is Religion?

[Stavros]

Doesnt mean the government should be worshipped as gods.

Tell that to your President and his supporters in and outside Congress!

[Stavros]

Buddhism is a strange religion that, like Islam, has evolved into different schools of thought that have different ways of attaining enightenment, and may have provided Scientology with the 'steps' or 'tasks' that are also found in Freemasonry. The idea of a evolutionary process is key to Buddism, to some extent to Hindu ideas too, so that, for example, Therevada Buddhism has 'eight steps', and 'five precepts'. The Sangha that were crucial to the dissemination of Buddhist ideas existed before any rules and precepts were written down and thus became as it were, 'above' the people in terms of their knowledge, much as one found with the Chrsitian clergy and the Muslim Ulema, notably when writing and printing did become available but when most people could neither read nor write. And it is only one step from Monk, Imam and Priest to the Party Cadres that Lenin believed would guide the people through the revolution. Buddhism, depending on where you are between India and Japan, and not excluding California, probably has more dietary rules than any other religion, but rules that change according to geography and school.

You can find many of the ideas in Buddhism in Hegel's Phenomenology of the Spirit where an origin in 'the nothing' leads the mind/spirit through a dialectical process to attain a form of 'absolute consciousness' that sounds like Nirvana, but without all the rules and regulations found in organized religion.

If we can agree as Trish has suggested, that as humans congregated in social groups to which they were not related, having realised that incest produces progressively inferior humans who cannot re-produce and thus condemn the family to extinction, and that in doing so developed rules that enable society to retain its integrity, one can add in God as the definition of non-human power that was -and is- evident to all. GS Kirk in his study of Greek Myths presents a compelling argument for the invention of gods to explain extreme and normal weather events that people either rely on -clean water, productive land, hygienic flesh- or fear: volcanic eruptions, floods and tsunamis, earthquakes and hurricanes, and so on. Hardly surprising if people give god-like powers of life and death when they have seen their loved ones die in a flood or an earthquake. And hardly surprising if, when people ascribe such phenomenal power to God, that if a much respected elder tells you that heaven awaits those who do good, and hell those that do bad, that a moral code develops that, in a secular society, can be coded in laws that people agree should bind them in an orderly and non-violent society.

Thus the Evolution Institute has examined, and produced seven basic moral rules which it claims are found in all human societies--

love your family, help your group, return favors, be brave, defer to authority, be fair, and respect others’ property – appear to be universal across cultures.

because

Kin selection explains why we feel a special duty of care for our families, and why we abhor incest. Mutualism explains why we form groups and coalitions (there is strength and safety in numbers), and hence why we value unity, solidarity, and loyalty. Social exchange explains why we trust others, reciprocate favors, feel guilt and gratitude, make amends, and forgive. And conflict resolution explains: why we engage in costly displays of prowess such as bravery and generosity; why we defer to our superiors; why we divide disputed resources fairly; and why we recognize prior possession.
https://evolution-institute.org/the-...und-the-world/

[morty]

Religion is a man made form of control it's that simple.

[trish]

I don't believe it's that simple. Religion can be used to control people, but that doesn't explain the root origin of religion or even how it can be used as a mechanism of social or political control. Religion, I think, is based in humankind’s deep need for meaning. This craving, as any craving, can easily be - and has been - exploited by those who seek wealth, power and sometimes just self-aggrandizement. Still, the pursuit of meaning quite justifiably persists independently of those who would use it perversely.

[Stavros]

Religion may be 'man made' (I think woman must have had a role in it too), it cannot be simple -what is sin? Does it exist independently of religion? I am also not sure the word evil has any meaning beyond its religious origin, if that is true.

But if people need 'spiritual nourishment', why? Isn't that what music provides?

[holzz]

Tell that to your President and his supporters in and outside Congress!

i'm not an American, dummy. i wouldn't want to have been born in that racist fuckhole.

but then keep on with your holy book that' been distorted by humans over millennia, or Popes, bishops, preiest and gurus.

if you're that holy, why are you on a porn site anyhow? it's not biblical.

[Stavros]

Being interested in reigion does not make me a believer. If I was holy, I would probably be dead. And as I am no angel, I am here instead.

[broncofan]

I am an atheist because I don't believe in God or a God. For a time I read books by atheists who were convinced that many of the problems in society were the product of religion and while I believed it for a time and think religion does present a conceptual problem because there's no clear dividing line between the secular and religious world, I've found atheism to be a mania for some.

Some people want to maintain that anyone interested in religion is a fool. They don't have an interest in discussing anything about the human condition and our interest in philosophical questions but simply get a charge out of saying those who believe are stupid.

For a while I found Christopher Hitchens amusing and not because he could insult religious people, which I regarded as cheap in many cases, but because he did occasionally point out some of the arbitrariness of our religious beliefs. When asked about whether he thought the religion of my childhood, Judaism, represented an advance over polytheism because it was the first monotheistic religion, he quipped, "Yes. It's closer to the real number."

For some, they appreciate Hitchens not for his erudition and occasional good observations but for the derogatory and mean-spirited things he said. And since this is all they can mimic, we're left with the worst of all worlds.

[Stavros]

The interesting question about Jews I pose is this: why does it appear possible to be a secular Jew, but not a secular Christian or a secular Muslim? Or, is it possible to be a Jew and not believe in God? I am sure there are Jews whose instant reply would be that it is not possible to choose -a Jew must believe in God and observe God's laws, or not be a Jew. I don't think either Muslims or Christians could say they believe in the teachings of Muhammad and Jesus, but don't believe in God. If the relationship between man and God is linked and only linked through religious belief, must it also mean religious observance -theology and/or orthodoxy and/or orthopraxy? And if one does not believe in God, what does it mean to be a 'cultural Jew'? Isn't that rather like the UK leaving the EU but wanting all the benefits of membership?

I wonder if, aside from the role played by science and the Enlightenment, the creation of the modern state and democracy has weakened that link to religion that is both personal and social -there have been times when the State was ruthless with people who violated the State religion, Tudor England being a ghastly example -savage acts against the body in the name of relgion are observed in some Muslim States today- whereas the argument, found somewhere (I forget where) in Zeldin's studies of France, is that democracy, by endowing the individuals with political power, grants them the ability to be different from others in society, and thus makes social cohesion or social norms less secure than they were in, say, Feudal times. Individuals lend their loyalty to a state that at one time demanded it. Thus governments must earn their authority, rather than impose it on people without allowing any opposition.

Thus the benefit of democracy in the modern state is that it liberates those who simply don't believe what they have been raised to believe, or who welcome the chance to escape a constriction on their behaviour that might be imposed, for example by family and social rituals, hostile attitudes to sexual identity, partisan political differences and so on -the USA thus becomes the ideal country in which to live because it has no official religion and where there is no requirement to believe in one. So, should Americans be actively engaged in the repudiation of any attempt to Christianize public life and laws in the USA?

[buttslinger]

One consideration in considering a Saintly life is the incredible amount of work and dedication it would take to bear fruit. I did a report in School about Zen Buddhism, it's the Japanese version of Buddhism, they took it apart, scrapped the unnecessary parts, and reassembled it as 16 hour days of meditation. Of all the different Schools, the Zen Buddhists claim the most Enlightened Souls, slackers get whacked with a Zen Stick.
While I believe whole heartedly that the work would be worth it, no way in hell do I have what it takes to find out fer sure.