US Elections 2020

[blackchubby38]

So you are correct when it comes to the Catholic Church - no argument from me here. However, most of their "believer base" is still there. And that "believer base" regardless of how we feel here about abortion, divorce, and same-sex relationships see things differently than we members of this forum. But what I was eluding to earlier in my previous post is that if they (to include the Black church) are pushed by Democrats to a point where they feel their rights are threatened, then the Democrats might as well forget their vote. The question after that is IMHO whether or not this voting base moves towards an Independent arena or Republican.

I happen to be an atheist. But if there is one thing I do know is that no matter far left the party might get, they never will push away the black church. While they maybe open minded about other things, there is still a majority of young black people that believe in god. They can't shake that part of their upbringing.

In fact, I think its safe to say that the black church and to lesser extent the Catholic one seems to be more accepted than the white Christian Evangelical one among Democrats.

[fred41]

Just like Sith
Why should one vote Republican or Democrat only?

But since you've limited yourself to one 2 parties, I'll still answer your question. Susan Collins, and BLACK moderate Republican Will Hurd are 2 that I would definitely pick over Biden.

Well if you’re directing this at me, you should know - I don’t limit myself to one party, as a matter of fact - I’ve voted Republican far more often than I’ve voted Democrat...and if it wasn’t for Trump, that would probably continue. Why? because Joe Biden was never really President material in my view. Now that he’s a shell of his former self, why would I think he’s more fit for the job, as opposed to earlier times?

The quote was directed at Bronc and he understood what it meant. His quote made it seem as if only there was another Republican running, other than Trump, then he’d have someone else to vote for, other than the uninspiring Biden. But he and I both know that he would faithfully vote Biden regardless of ANY Republican running against him, thereby making the quote a little dishonest. But it’s the type of dishonesty we all sometimes employ when making political comparisons...so I just thought it humorous and , I think he did too, when it was pointed out - judging by his reply.

I do prefer Biden to a majority of the Democratic Primary Slate (I don’t want to rehash all that, I’ve already posted my preferred choices on multiple threads)...but by no means would he be my preferred choice over many other good folks, both Democrat and Republican, who simply aren’t running.

[broncofan]

I guess what I mean is that voting right now has nothing to do with ideology bc the Republican candidate is corrupt, and corrupt to an extent that I never envisioned for either party. He will do whatever he's allowed to get away with and that includes corruption of the pardon process and total corruption of the Justice Department. He has also destroyed the careers of honest civil servants when they refused to lie for him.

If a candidate for the Democratic party did anything within a mile of that I'd vote Republican. I wouldn't vote for Mitt Romney or 2008 John McCain over Joe Biden because frankly I see Joe as innocuous and he's a Democrat. But I am yet to see a Democrat who would let people die for ego gratification. I'd take Mitt Romney over a pro-choice, pro gay marriage, high progressive tax rate Trump bc Trump's flaws are not purely ideological. He is uniquely unqualified to look after other human beings.

The campaign could be billed as a Democrat v. an autocratic piece of garbage who has no respect for our form of government and places no value on people's lives.

[broncofan]

For me to vote for a Republican the Democrat would have to be off the charts bad in some way. A conspiracy theorist, a total incompetent that could sow disaster just because he or she is unable to handle a serious situation, or thoroughly corrupt.

I wrote that other post in such a rush that I'm not sure if I meant to imply I would vote Republican if not for Trump (which as Fred says is false) or just that I don't really care about the Democratic candidate bc I see the election as a referendum on Trump, who is off the charts bad in so many ways.

[fred41]

I guess what I mean is that voting right now has nothing to do with ideology bc the Republican candidate is corrupt, and corrupt to an extent that I never envisioned for either party. He will do whatever he's allowed to get away with and that includes corruption of the pardon process and total corruption of the Justice Department. He has also destroyed the careers of honest civil servants when they refused to lie for him.

If a candidate for the Democratic party did anything within a mile of that I'd vote Republican. I wouldn't vote for Mitt Romney or 2008 John McCain over Joe Biden because frankly I see Joe as innocuous and he's a Democrat. But I am yet to see a Democrat who would let people die for ego gratification. I'd take Mitt Romney over a pro-choice, pro gay marriage, high progressive tax rate Trump bc Trump's flaws are not purely ideological. He is uniquely unqualified to look after other human beings.

The campaign could be billed as a Democrat v. an autocratic piece of garbage who has no respect for our form of government and places no value on people's lives.

Lol...True.

[MrFanti]

Well if you’re directing this at me, you should know - I don’t limit myself to one party, as a matter of fact - I’ve voted Republican far more often than I’ve voted Democrat...and if it wasn’t for Trump, that would probably continue. Why? because Joe Biden was never really President material in my view. Now that he’s a shell of his former self, why would I think he’s more fit for the job, as opposed to earlier times?

The quote was directed at Bronc and he understood what it meant. His quote made it seem as if only there was another Republican running, other than Trump, then he’d have someone else to vote for, other than the uninspiring Biden. But he and I both know that he would faithfully vote Biden regardless of ANY Republican running against him, thereby making the quote a little dishonest. But it’s the type of dishonesty we all sometimes employ when making political comparisons...so I just thought it humorous and , I think he did too, when it was pointed out - judging by his reply.

I do prefer Biden to a majority of the Democratic Primary Slate (I don’t want to rehash all that, I’ve already posted my preferred choices on multiple threads)...but by no means would he be my preferred choice over many other good folks, both Democrat and Republican, who simply aren’t running.

Understood and no offense taken on my end.

[MrFanti]

I happen to be an atheist. But if there is one thing I do know is that no matter far left the party might get, they never will push away the black church. While they maybe open minded about other things, there is still a majority of young black people that believe in god. They can't shake that part of their upbringing.

In fact, I think its safe to say that the black church and to lesser extent the Catholic one seems to be more accepted than the white Christian Evangelical one among Democrats.

You might have a point - but the far left IMHO seems to be sliding more in favor of Islam over Christianity in general...
I also in general agree with you about the Black church being more accepted than the White one..

It will be interesting to watch as it pans out!

[Stavros]

I happen to be an atheist. But if there is one thing I do know is that no matter far left the party might get, they never will push away the black church. While they maybe open minded about other things, there is still a majority of young black people that believe in god. They can't shake that part of their upbringing.

In fact, I think its safe to say that the black church and to lesser extent the Catholic one seems to be more accepted than the white Christian Evangelical one among Democrats.

I admit to being puzzled by religious groups, more so in the US which I don't know a lot about, but also in the UK where the Black communities have either tended to be of West Indian origins and Pentecostalist, while the growth of African immigration has seen a growth in churches which tend to emphasize the eternity to come rather than the here and now, though I don't doubt they do some charitable work in their local areas. What many of these churches appear to have is a deep disapproval of the socially liberal laws with regard to same-sex relations, abortion and divorce.

Islam and Judaism undoubtedly regard same-sex relations as a sin, whereas Islam is ambivalent on abortion- in theory opposed but in practice allowed in some situations-, and divorce is not only accepted, but controversially so, owing to those Hadith that allow a man to divorce his wife without even consulting her.
The cultural division in the UK has also opened since the Church of England allowed women to be ordained and become Bishops, while many Conservatves now view the CoE as a 'left-wing' oufit, a legacy of the 1980s when an official report by the Bishops was critical of the impact Thatcher's policies had had on poverty.

Do all the churches adhere to strict beliefs on same-sex marriage, abortion and divorce? In the US the only policy position that can match the values of the church is to make same-sex relations, abortion and divorce illegal, so why don't they campaign on this basis? If the Democrats have a credibility gap with 'fundamentalist Christians', is it a gap filled by the Constitution rather than by faith? I can't think of a Democrat President in the 100 years who did not broadcast his Christian faith, even if all this 'God Bless America' stuff only became normalized, or ritualized by Reagan.

The problem is that Conservatives, by definition must want to conserve the Constitution, but if they think various amendments have undermined their faith, then instead of using the free speech amendment to effectively change the law to make other Constitutional provisions illegal, I think they should declare themselves opposed to the issue noted above. The same is true of Islam with regard to same-sex relations.

It seems to me, and I have said this before, that States Rights is being used to re-define term limits to make an abortion all but impossible in the State, without changing the law (Rose-v-Wade); just as cuts to the budgets of Planned Parenthood Centres also tend to focus on their abortion advice rather than say, contraception and other family planning issues; and that the proposed amendments to the Free Speech laws are designed to come as close as the State can to marginalizing LGBTQ people or even shutting them out of commercial transactions, which is not a ban, but comes close to being one in practical terms.

There seems to be to be a devious set of actions taking place that, in the name of religious freedom, if implemented give people of faith superior, rather than equal rights to other Americans. The 'cultural war' that it is being argued the President thinks will win him votes, ought if the Religious Lobbies are more honest, go beyond the 'cancel culture' with regard to statues and the names of public buildings, and support all laws aimed at taking all rights away from LGBTQ and not just with regard to the miitary. It just has not been as explicit as I think it ought to be, to give Americans a clear choice.

I have not understood the claim that 'the left' is soft on Islam. I can see that there has been tactical politics which in the UK is driven by issues around immigration rather than religion. Moreover, given that most Muslim immigrants, be they from West Africa, the Horn (Somalia and the Sudan in particular) and either Pakistan or Bangladesh are self-employed and are opposed to taxes and not just same-sex relations, it makes no sense for these immigrant communities to vote Labour or be associated with the 'left' -they are natural conservatives, and it is perhaps noticeable that most Black and Brown Conservative MPs have a background in either Africa or the Punjab, where Labour MPs have a closer connection to the Caribbean.

It is difficult for me to get a handle on this re the US, because religion has declined so much as an influence in British politics. If a politician stood on a platform and said 'God Bless you all' the sound of ridiculous laughter would surely follow. Even 'God Save the Queen' is reserved for international sporting matches and candlelit dinners in Oxbridge colleges or Gentleman's clubs, maybe even Golf clubs, but who cares about them?

[MrFanti]

A few more videos that expand into the hidden facts that contrary to what you see on the mainstream media, not all Black Americans are united under "BLM"....

[MrFanti]

Here's a very interesting one...