US Elections 2020

[Jericho]

What exactly did you say about the Emperor? Some of these Conservatives aren't too keen on WIT!
I do believe the Trump faithful are well meaning, but how stupid do you have to be to trust a man who has lied 12,000 times?
I do have a serious question for you, Bronco:
If Mueller's team found proof or evidence of money laundering with Putin's Oligarchs...…
would that be sent to New York and put on the "further consideration" pile?
And, if so, could Barr make it all disappear?

To crossthread a bit, for questioning the great and unmatched wisdom of equating brexit with the the 2nd world war.

[filghy2]

I do believe the Trump faithful are well meaning, but how stupid do you have to be to trust a man who has lied 12,000 times?

Sorry, it's not well meaning to deliberately ignore evidence of evils just because you hope to benefit from the situation. There's a difference between being innocently ignorant and wilfully ignorant. I'm sure most of them know at some level that Trump is an unscrupulous liar, but they support him anyway because they think that will work to the benefit of their tribe and against others who they resent or fear.

[buttslinger]

If you declare the Republican voters unredeemable because of politics, you are as bad as they are. I want every American to see what Trump did. Hearts and Minds are the currency of politics. Any person who works for their family on Maggie's Farm should be a Democrat. If you can't convince them of that it's your failure.

And our failure as a Nation.

[filghy2]

If you declare the Republican voters unredeemable because of politics, you are as bad as they are.

Nice speech, but didn't you describe Trump's base as 'inbred' in another thread recently? To be clear, I'm not talking about everyone who voted for Trump last time. Obviously the Democrats need to win some of those back.

I'm talking about the majority of his supporters - the sort of people who cheer on everything he says at rallies. There's plenty of evidence that those people are motivated primarily by white identity politics. Trump must think so as well, given he keeps coming back to those issues.

[filghy2]

Getting back to the topic, it seems Elizabeth Warren has been the big mover in the polls for the Democratic nomination. She certainly seems to have been busy on policy development. Could being seen as a policy wonk without charisma play well for her after the 'too much excitement' of Trump?
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/209052...omination-2020

[broncofan]

If you declare the Republican voters unredeemable because of politics, you are as bad as they are. .

First, I don't think they're unredeemable but I do agree with filghy about their motivation. It is resentment. Some of it is race-based and some of it is pure partisan based, but the problem is they have decided the interests of their party trump the country's interest in having rules that apply to everyone.

They're motivated not by their vision of greatness for the country but by the pain segments of society feel watching their President engage in lawless, cruel, and dishonest behavior.

[broncofan]

Getting back to the topic, it seems Elizabeth Warren has been the big mover in the polls for the Democratic nomination. She certainly seems to have been busy on policy development. Could being seen as a policy wonk without charisma play well for her after the 'too much excitement' of Trump?
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/209052...omination-2020

That's probably true. I'm not impressed by Biden and she is a good candidate. Lack of charisma is not usually an asset but it's in short supply anyhow.

[buttslinger]

Nice speech,... .

Thanks. Yes, I called ignorant people ignorant, I've probably called some niggers niggers, and I'm sure I've called a faggot a faggot. I may have even taken a shot at you. Lets not forget about the Damn Furiners. When it comes to POLITICS, you and I are both LOSERS. Now. It doesn't feel good, does it? It's not good for one's EGO. Republicans have egos too.
Back on topic, Joe, Bernie, and Pocahontas are all in their 70s. That's not good.
If you two can't see through yourselves enough to see ALL people as well meaning, you are part of the problem.
Donald J Trump is the front and center problem, I can't think of a single person who should be easier to take out. He obviously understands his voters better than I do. Odds are, even if impeached and disgraced, and thrown out of office, Pence will pardon him and he'll skate once again off to some real estate deals in Russia or Turkey. Everyone is guilty of convenient blindness.

[broncofan]

You're taking a kernel of an important idea and exaggerating it beyond reason. Yes, everyone should consider how they would react if people they support behave badly or if their circumstances were different. I don't think it's presumptuous to say I would not support Obama if he said and did the things Trump has done. Am I more vigilant about the wrongs of Republicans I disagree with than Democrats whose aspirations I share? Probably.

Might I have different views if I were raised in a red state? I don't doubt it. But I have trouble seeing a version of myself who doesn't see the danger in vilifying people because of their race or calling the media the enemies of the people.

Open-mindedness is good until you insist it should wipe out even the potential for accountability.

And Peejaye, there is something both voyeuristic and childish about refusing to engage in conversation and continuing to downrate innocuous posts long after you've had a chance to cool down.

[buttslinger]

[QUOTE=You're taking a kernel of an important idea and exaggerating it beyond reason. [/QUOTE]

I would have said distilling instead of exaggerating, but your point is correct, well-meaning is probably the wrong word. Human, maybe?

Can I say we should give the Devil his due? Majority Rules. White Republicans vote. The half of Americans who don't vote are overwhelmingly Democrat, if they bothered to vote. Democrats are white urban and suburbanites, Blacks, the rest are a grab bag of tribes. Trump's Whites came over on the Mayflower and unified under the flag of racism because McCain and Romney lost. Democrats brought a fig leaf to a knife fight, they need to bring a gun.
I asked you before, Broncomaniac, Attorney at Law, I guess it got lost in the shuffle-
If Mueller found solid evidence of Trump's involvement with money laundering and Russian Oligarchs, would that be sent to New York for possible prosecution after he's out of office?
And could Bill Barr snuff it?
I want Republicans to see Trump for who he really is. I want him in jail.

As a postscript, I think me and this forum committed the ultimate sin, we got old. I've liked every post broncofan and Jericho have made, ….Stavros.....(sigh) Brilliant, Educated, Loyal, Pompous...if I'm not here I'll be thinking of you December fifth when the last Richardson book on Picasso comes out. I miss Trish and Dino and Prospero, and all the good old times. Upstairs in the FLESH SECTION is boring as Hell now. Sad. Even the Devil gets boring.