US Elections 2020

[MrFanti]

Kayne West's support for Donald Trump, A person who called for the death penalty for the central park five {5 african-american and latino teenagers} who was accused and indicted for assault and rape of a 28 year white female jogger in 1989, and even though charges against them were vacated 13 years later,he still though they were guilty,created the birther movement in 2011 by claiming that Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States,even though he was,In 2017 called african-american athletes sons of bitches because they were kneeling during the national anthem,and protesting police brutality and racial injustice,referring to predominately african countries as shitholes, calling the black lives matter murial in front of his fifth avenue residence a symbol of hate,using tear gas,flashbang grenades,pepper spray and rubber bullets to disperse peaceful protesters so he can take a photo op in front of a church,calling confederate monuments magnificent and stoking fear and division on the daily basis on social media and other despicable acts he has done over the years.

Is Jesse Jackson a Sell-Out too?

[blackchubby38]

Kayne West's support for Donald Trump, A person who called for the death penalty for the central park five {5 african-american and latino teenagers} who was accused and indicted for assault and rape of a 28 year white female jogger in 1989, and even though charges against them were vacated 13 years later,he still though they were guilty,created the birther movement in 2011 by claiming that Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States,even though he was,In 2017 called african-american athletes sons of bitches because they were kneeling during the national anthem,and protesting police brutality and racial injustice,referring to predominately african countries as shitholes, calling the black lives matter murial in front of his fifth avenue residence a symbol of hate,using tear gas,flashbang grenades,pepper spray and rubber bullets to disperse peaceful protesters so he can take a photo op in front of a church,calling confederate monuments magnificent and stoking fear and division on the daily basis on social media and other despicable acts he has done over the years.

Yes we all know about Trump's history when it comes to blacks and other minorities. But if Kayne West or any other black person wants to continue to support him for their own personal reasons, then that's there right as an American. As for calling him a sellout, see my previous post:

But what is not fair is to call a member of a particular minority group, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion a "sellout" if they decide to have differing set of political views from what is the status quo. Black people are not monolithic. We all don't talk the same, come from same places, and sometimes don't share the same life experiences. So why should we be expected to all vote the same.

Now I will say this. I don't think Kayne is serious about running for President. I mean this country is truly finished then if those are only three individuals that we could find to run for the most important position in the free world.

But if he is doing it as a favor for Trump and not for "altruistic" reasons, then he can go fuck off.

[broncofan]

I agree with you that minorities should not have constraints on who they vote for or what parties they are expected to support.

In the case of Kanye, I do think supporting Trump will make it difficult for him to weigh in on civil rights issues without being called a hypocrite. Yesterday Donald Trump went on twitter to ask why Bubba Wallace wasn't apologizing and to imply Nascar's lower ratings were the result of them wanting to get rid of the Confederate flag. The racism is even more flagrant now than when he was running in 2016 and people's fatigue in dealing with it is clear.

I don't think Biden is an especially strong candidate but he has experience and is a like-able guy. As for Trump and Kanye, I'd say they're both megalomaniacs with an inflated sense of self-importance who overestimate their own intelligence. Even without ideology I would trust Biden to do a serious and competent job before Trump. In your cynicism about the candidates you maybe forget some of what makes Trump extraordinary and dangerous.

[MrFanti]

But what is not fair is to call a member of a particular minority group, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion a "sellout" if they decide to have differing set of political views from what is the status quo. Black people are not monolithic. We all don't talk the same, come from same places, and sometimes don't share the same life experiences. So why should we be expected to all vote the same.

Again, WORD!!!!
And like I said earlier, the general public is getting a skewed and slanted view of the Black community due to the pretty much ZERO reporting of Independent and Libertarian Blacks.....

And yes, I am a Black male....

[Stavros]

Again, WORD!!!!
And like I said earlier, the general public is getting a skewed and slanted view of the Black community due to the pretty much ZERO reporting of Independent and Libertarian Blacks.....
And yes, I am a Black male....

There is a limit to what I can say about the US media as I am not plugged into it, and I do think there is scope for a broader debate about politics beyond the two-party dominance. I think your problem is that the Libertarian argument is academic and in practical terms close to worthless. It might have Rupert Murdoch as its champion, his attempt to recruit the 45th President to roll back the frontiers of Government, reduce taxes, and end welfare has proven to be a false promise: the 45th President has smothered American Government in a swamp of corruption and lies while increasing the volume of funds the Federal Govt pumps into the economy, where a Libertarian would not spend so much as a quarter.

Black or white, Libertarian ideas have a credibilty gap so in a way it is a pity they cannot be aired more in the media so that people can understand what nonsense it is. Rand Paul would be a delight, as his record shows -for a man who thinks Government should be all but aboished, he was very keen at one time to decide he should take his own initiatives on foreign policy with regard to US/Iran relations, leaving Bolton to refer to him, sarcastically as 'Secretary of State Paul'- the man should in theory not have a foreign policy at all. For Libertarians there are markets and individuals, and nothing else.
There are many ways Black Americans can improve their lives without being dependent on the State, yet so many Corporations depend on State support, one wonders why Black Entrepreneurs don't get the same tax holidays/sweetheart deals their competitors do -or maybe they do? I see that Kanye person has had a hand-out from the tax-payer in the form of a loan somewhere between $5-10 million, so maybe I just wrong.

Incidentally, and not of much relevance to you, here in the UK Paris Dennard has been on both the BBC-2 Newsnight programme and Channel 4 News a few times, defending the current administration, as both Channels do interviews supporters who are not elected officials.

Can I also point out the lack of Black senior officials in the US Government? If Black Republicans are to be admired, maybe they should get some of the top jobs, as happened with Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell? In the UK, two of the most senior positions in Government, Home Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer, are held by Asians (Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak, respectively), and we have had junior ministers with African ancesty -and in the Conservative Party! I don't rate them highly because I am not a Conservative, but when it comes to 'minority representation', why are US Conservatives so backward?

Could it be that the 45th President, having ridiculed Black people as 'stupid and lazy' -including the 44th President- just doesn't trust them with the responsibilities of high office?

[MrFanti]

There is a limit to what I can say about the US media as I am not plugged into it, and I do think there is scope for a broader debate about politics beyond the two-party dominance. I think your problem is that the Libertarian argument is academic and in practical terms close to worthless. It might have Rupert Murdoch as its champion, his attempt to recruit the 45th President to roll back the frontiers of Government, reduce taxes, and end welfare has proven to be a false promise: the 45th President has smothered American Government in a swamp of corruption and lies while increasing the volume of funds the Federal Govt pumps into the economy, where a Libertarian would not spend so much as a quarter.

Black or white, Libertarian ideas have a credibilty gap so in a way it is a pity they cannot be aired more in the media so that people can understand what nonsense it is. Rand Paul would be a delight, as his record shows -for a man who thinks Government should be all but aboished, he was very keen at one time to decide he should take his own initiatives on foreign policy with regard to US/Iran relations, leaving Bolton to refer to him, sarcastically as 'Secretary of State Paul'- the man should in theory not have a foreign policy at all. For Libertarians there are markets and individuals, and nothing else.
There are many ways Black Americans can improve their lives without being dependent on the State, yet so many Corporations depend on State support, one wonders why Black Entrepreneurs don't get the same tax holidays/sweetheart deals their competitors do -or maybe they do? I see that Kanye person has had a hand-out from the tax-payer in the form of a loan somewhere between $5-10 million, so maybe I just wrong.

Incidentally, and not of much relevance to you, here in the UK Paris Dennard has been on both the BBC-2 Newsnight programme and Channel 4 News a few times, defending the current administration, as both Channels do interviews supporters who are not elected officials.

Can I also point out the lack of Black senior officials in the US Government? If Black Republicans are to be admired, maybe they should get some of the top jobs, as happened with Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell? In the UK, two of the most senior positions in Government, Home Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer, are held by Asians (Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak, respectively), and we have had junior ministers with African ancesty -and in the Conservative Party! I don't rate them highly because I am not a Conservative, but when it comes to 'minority representation', why are US Conservatives so backward?

Could it be that the 45th President, having ridiculed Black people as 'stupid and lazy' -including the 44th President- just doesn't trust them with the responsibilities of high office?

Democrats also have a credibility gap as they have tried to deny and/or skew their developing of Jim Crow Laws and Segregation (which the latter Joe Biden supported). - "Nonsense" is just your opinion - and you don't speak for all.
The main stream media is dominated by Democrat based media so of course, the general public is going to a skewed view of Independents and Libertarians. Look at the mayor history of these 3 major cities that have been run into the ground; Detroit, Chicago, and Baltimore. All 3 have continuous decades of mayors from the Democrat party - and not one single Independent, Libertarian, or Republican. So as Eric July (the Black Libertarian) stated in the video, to blame the Republicans for the failures of these cities makes absolutely no sense. And as far as Independents are concerned, Ross Perot IMHO would have made an excellent US President.

While I'm NOT a Trump supporter, your last statement is completely incorrect when you look at the growing number of Black voters that have/had left the Democrat party and voting for Trump. But I don't blame you because as I continually say, the Main Stream US media does not show Independent/Libertarian/Conservatives which is why your last statement is incorrect - you have a slanted view (thanks to the main stream media) of the Black community. And an interesting side note. Whether you're for Trump or despise him, his Prison Reform Act GREATLY helped Black Americans and most recently, his restoration of funding to historically Black Colleges (that ironically, was slashed by the Obama administration) has also helped the Black community as well and ***could*** explain (in part), the reason of the increase in Black voters to Trump.

And 2 things I said in cased you glossed over them.
1) I said I'm not a Trump supporter
2) Democrat Tulsi Gabbard is a much better candidate (IMHO) than Joe Biden - hands down.

The Black community is also divided on what exactly BLM actually means - and if you've seen CNN, I happen to side with Terry Crews and NOT Don Lemon. Statistically speaking, 6 children under the age of 10 were shot and killed by other Black Americans this past weekend. Where is "our" outrage over this (these types of senseless killings by "us") that has gone on for DECADES?

I get the police brutality aspect of it but GUESS WHAT? Statistically speaking, I as a Black man have a much greater chance of being killed by another Black man than I do by law enforcement........So yes, I stand on Terry Crew's side....

[MrFanti]

There is a limit to what I can say about the US media as I am not plugged into it,

Oh and to conclude..."blackchubby38" said it best:
"Black people are not monolithic."

But yet the mainstream media that you view shows us as monolithic

[holzz]

#kaynein

[filghy2]

I think your problem is that the Libertarian argument is academic and in practical terms close to worthless.

Covid-19 is the perfect demonstration of this. What would be the libertarian response? Let it rip and leave it to people to look after themselves?

[filghy2]

Democrats also have a credibility gap as they have tried to deny and/or skew their developing of Jim Crow Laws and Segregation (which the latter Joe Biden supported). - "Nonsense" is just your opinion - and you don't speak for all.

I think it is you who has the credibility gap. You seem to have overlooked the fact that Civil Rights legislation was implemented by a Democrat President and Congress, along with many other things that have happened since then. I'm surprised you didn't mention Abraham Lincoln.

It's one thing to be independent and make an effort to be open-minded. It's quite another thing to deliberately avoid acknowledging certain inconvenient truths as you have done consistently. Anyone who overlooks Trump's long history of racism and appealing to racism, such as documented in this article, is clearly making a concerted effort not to see certain things. https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/122708...racism-history

It's not so much what you say - it's what you avoid saying. As I've pointed out numerous times, you don't seem to have ever uttered a single negative word about Trump or the Republican Party on this forum. A true independent is willing to criticise both sides where it is warranted - as blackchubby does. You, sir, are a phoney independent.