Sunset and Wein: a tale of old Hollywood

[Stavros]

Although Harvey Weinstein has yet to be arrested or appear in court, it has been revealed that over the years he has gone to quite extraordinary lengths to prevent any woman from publicly accusing him of assault or harassment, using Non-Disclosure Agreements or the use of private investigators to find material with which to smear the reputation of an accuser. These are not the actions of a man who believes himself to be innocent or just 'one of the lads' when it comes to making unwanted advances to women.

Meanwhile, more names enter the frame -Louis CK I had never heard of before and have not googled, so I still don't know who he is, and it is of no importance to me anyway. Add to the list Dustin Hoffman, Richard Dreyfuss, Jeffrey Tambor -who says he has left Transparent having been accused by two members of the cast of a form of groping- and Roy Moore, but no more about him here.

What surprises me is how some are using Al Franken's problem as a means to prise open the record of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, thus:
a) those who defended the Republican candidate in the 2016 elections from criticism of his 'locker-room talk' saying:
“Trump was just talking about doing bad stuff to women. Clinton actually did it. And he did it in the Oval Office.”

and B) Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a Democrat, began the process, asserting last week that Clinton should have stepped down. “I think that is the appropriate response,”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8061801.html

It surprises me because the evidence suggests that whatever Clinton and Lewinsky did was consensual where the key case to answer since Weinstein is the opposite, and in some cases may be criminal. I think this is where the 'process' may run out of hand, for if a broader reference to sexual athletics is to be judged, where does one stop? If Clinton, then Kennedy. If Kennedy then Warren 'Hardon' Harding, if Harding then Jefferson, and so on. After all, it is not getting laid that should be the bone of contention, but assault and harassment.

[bluesoul]

^^ huh? i wish you tried to make sense

[blackchubby38]

Although Harvey Weinstein has yet to be arrested or appear in court, it has been revealed that over the years he has gone to quite extraordinary lengths to prevent any woman from publicly accusing him of assault or harassment, using Non-Disclosure Agreements or the use of private investigators to find material with which to smear the reputation of an accuser. These are not the actions of a man who believes himself to be innocent or just 'one of the lads' when it comes to making unwanted advances to women.

Meanwhile, more names enter the frame -Louis CK I had never heard of before and have not googled, so I still don't know who he is, and it is of no importance to me anyway. Add to the list Dustin Hoffman, Richard Dreyfuss, Jeffrey Tambor -who says he has left Transparent having been accused by two members of the cast of a form of groping- and Roy Moore, but no more about him here.

What surprises me is how some are using Al Franken's problem as a means to prise open the record of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, thus:
a) those who defended the Republican candidate in the 2016 elections from criticism of his 'locker-room talk' saying:
“Trump was just talking about doing bad stuff to women. Clinton actually did it. And he did it in the Oval Office.”

and B) Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a Democrat, began the process, asserting last week that Clinton should have stepped down. “I think that is the appropriate response,”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8061801.html

It surprises me because the evidence suggests that whatever Clinton and Lewinsky did was consensual where the key case to answer since Weinstein is the opposite, and in some cases may be criminal. I think this is where the 'process' may run out of hand, for if a broader reference to sexual athletics is to be judged, where does one stop? If Clinton, then Kennedy. If Kennedy then Warren 'Hardon' Harding, if Harding then Jefferson, and so on. After all, it is not getting laid that should be the bone of contention, but assault and harassment.

I think what's happening is the line is being blurred between what's immoral and what's illegal. What should be settled in a criminal case and what could probably be settled in either civil court or with an apology. What charge ends a career and which one doesn't. Both the mainstream and social media are responsible for this because how fast these stories are coming in. We are at the point where there's a least one a day and depending on how famous the person is or how severe the charges are, the story can last for quite some time.

I think its important for the mainstream media to do its due diligence and try to distinguish and differentiate between each case to make sure the wrong people aren't caught up in the frenzy. Mob justice whether its in real life or on the internet is very a dangerous thing to be on the receiving end of.

Now when it comes to Bill Clinton and Rob Moore debate. That's a perfect example of people willing to overlook a person's transgressions if they play for the team they root for. While the crimes that Rob Moore is being accused of are far worse than the Lewinsky scandal, Bill Clinton has been accused of illegal sexual conduct in the past. I think Gillibrand was looking to 2020 and trying to remove the specter of Bill Clinton so his transgressions wouldn't be brought up again.

[Stavros]

Fair arguments, Blackchubby that I agree with. I am not sure about Bill Clinton and his past as I don't know much about it, and what little I have come across has been part of the conspiracy theories determined to smear his and his wife's reputation for political gain, so until there is more clarity I reserve my judgement on him.

[filghy2]

The impeachment proceedings against Clinton were on grounds of perjury and obstruction of justice, stemming from his sworn deposition in the Paula Jones case that he had not had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. So even his political opponents back then were not arguing for his removal on grounds of sexual misconduct per se.

FDR is another interesting historical case. He is known to have had at least one long-term mistress, and there are rumours of others. Different times then of course. The press did not even report the fact that he had to use a wheelchair.

[blackchubby38]

I think any former U.S. president who had a extra marital affair with a consenting adult should be kept out of the discussion of sexual misconduct. While it maybe considered immoral by some, I have always felt that adultery was familial issue instead of a societal one. The exception being a politician who runs on a platform of family values and is caught cheating on his or her spouse.

[Jericho]

If a woman laughs when Louis CK whips his dick out is it because 1) of his comedic performance and absurdist sense of humor, 2) it's the only way he can think of at the moment to score, or 3) his dick is humiliatingly tiny? Given the state of modern masculinity, one wonders which reaction he's going for.

Possibly, all the above!