sexuality and gender - new categories

[Lester316]

How about no more categories for anyone. It's all social constructionism anyway; the idea that anyone has to fit into some category defined by another is woefully out dated, reductive and frankly insulting to so many. If we keep trying to force people into little boxes and sub-genres of who they are how many more people will feel socially pressured to fit into one of those rather than just be themselves. We are finally reaching a point where people can be genetically born one way, say 'hang on a minute that's not who I really am' and be accepted by at least some parts of society (there are plenty of haters out there let's be honest) but here we are on a forum dedicated to people who have made their own choices about being who they want to be and forum members are still trying to create labels for anyone who is different to what is seen as "normal".

To put it bluntly bugger that; we don't need any more labels - stop coming up with more - in fact we could do with less or none at all.

[trish]

Then there's the category of people who say we don't don't need any more labels.

The problem is that as long as languages employ adjectives there will things and people to which those adjectives apply and others to which they don't; I.e. there will be categories. As meanings shift and words move so will the corresponding categories. The trick is not to morally judge people for the moral-free adjectives that apply to them; e.g. black, gay, elderly, female, etc.

Everyone wants to know more about themselves and others. Socrates' dictum, "Know thyself," is a natural imperative. And so we will always describe ourselves and ask others to describe us too. "Am I gay?" Am I bi?" "Am I prejudiced against this?" " "Am I intolerant of that?" "What category would you put me in?"

The thing to remember is that unless you're doing math or science, categories aren't jails and their boundaries aren't hard -but when you intersect all the categories together which apply to you, you get a category of one.

[holzz]

there are only two genders. and no, i'm not a bigot.

though sexuality is fluid, whilst gender is not.

men into trans women are straight, since it's the feminity we like. at best then maybe we're bi.

[Ponyboy]

Lester, i agree with you that we should just get on with it, but Trish is also right. No one is being forced into a category because of social pressure. People will always want to define theselves.

[fred41]

Lester, i agree with you that we should just get on with it, but Trish is also right. No one is being forced into a category because of social pressure. People will always want to define theselves.

People are forced into categories because of social pressure all the time (whether perceived or actual). Its probably the number one reason why people lie about their straightness, either to themselves, others or both.
Sincerity after careful introspection is the key.It isn't a hard science. Since a lot of this is still opinion, the label's ultra accuracy isn't that important. It's your willingness to accurately define it when pressed that matters. Without shade.
Also, that with changes in understanding and self-discovery, that often comes with constant revelation, usually brought on by time (life experience), your label may change with your perception. That's okay, you'll know if the fit is right for you, even if less than perfect, because it's your personal explanation or meaning as you see it that matters.
...as long as you're willing to give that explanation when social dictates call for it.
I think sometimes sincerity is more important than accuracy...just don't use it as a disguise.

[fred41]

BTW, I don't mind all the categories, but most of the time, if you mention anything other than 'straight' you'll have to explain it anyway.
"Not Straight" as has been mentioned, isn't bad.
or "straight with an asterisk".
I have used Bi a few times. I thought it would curtail a tiresome explanation, but it doesn't really.
So instead of a label, I tend to go with the explanation first and let the listener define it for themselves.

[skirtrustler]

Although flavours of 'being non straight' are useful to find like minded souls I am against divisive and simplistic multiculturalism and rigid categories are divisive. We are all human.

I also have a problem with 'straight' as a simple term. Since there are just as many flavours of straight in oed.com, inc: properly positioned; honest and direct; conventional and respectable; undiluted; and of course heterosexual. Many of these seem to relate back to Victorian middle class values, where there was so much pressure to conform that people ended up being so full of themselves, their contradictions and their sexuality that the internal pressure of the undiluted bulls**t kept them upright and 'straight'. Leading to the term 'uncorking'.

My grey hairs allow me to say that often those who portray themselves as the 'straightest' are in many cases the most warped inside. By way of just one example - from many - those in the U.K. of a certain age will remember the Tory 'family values' mantra of the early to mid 90's; and how the mighty fell like bowling pins: on their 'swords of truth'; outed for paying for sex; insider dealing; or jailed for perverting the course of justice.

[fred41]

Some people may prefer two terms that already exist: Heteroflexible and Homoflexible.

[Lester316]

Lester, i agree with you that we should just get on with it, but Trish is also right. No one is being forced into a category because of social pressure. People will always want to define theselves.

People are forced into categories because of social pressure all the time (whether perceived or actual). Its probably the number one reason why people lie about their straightness, either to themselves, others or both.
Sincerity after careful introspection is the key.It isn't a hard science. Since a lot of this is still opinion, the label's ultra accuracy isn't that important. It's your willingness to accurately define it when pressed that matters. Without shade.
Also, that with changes in understanding and self-discovery, that often comes with constant revelation, usually brought on by time (life experience), your label may change with your perception. That's okay, you'll know if the fit is right for you, even if less than perfect, because it's your personal explanation or meaning as you see it that matters.
...as long as you're willing to give that explanation when social dictates call for it.
I think sometimes sincerity is more important than accuracy...just don't use it as a disguise.

My point about more labels is simple we just don't need more being made up by other people. If any person whatever their gender, sexual identity or beliefs wants to say "I am this..." I'm all for it; that is all about choosing to be yourself. The issue is as Fred has quite rightly pointed out (and that Ponyboy you are worryingly oblivious of) that too many individuals feel forced to label themselves as something they are not by a larger majority the end result of which is usually pain, sadness or even worse.

It's only a few hours ago I read something on my twitter timeline regarding the Nashville Statement (being in the UK I had no idea about this until reading more) and the account of someone who was lambasting it. To paraphrase briefly they pointed out that they had met teens (cared for them and been with them whilst an ambulance was on the way in some cases) in that part of the world who had been so ideologically and theologically constructed that they felt it was better to commit suicide rather than be attracted to someone of the same gender.

People are always being forced into labelling themselves and fitting into neat "appropriate" little boxes by someone else. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen if you wish but it does and the amount of death, pain and damage caused by it knows no bounds. We tell children that bullying is wrong but a large proportion of adults spend their lives trying to berate, subdue and brainwash others into fitting their ideal of "normal".

[skirtrustler]

Thanks Lester316 for the heads-up on the Nashville Statement.

https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement/ ... from "the land of the free and the home of the brave". Where the only thing free about that is the freedom to affirm as a self certified bigot, and the only thing that is brave is to publicly join into a tribal orgy of togetherness with like minded bigots.

Leviticus 18:22 .. they will be burning us all soon, or throwing us off the rooftops.