The Mike Pence Thread

[Stavros]

Lord, we know what we are, but know not what we may be

Mike Pence, the Christian Vice-President of the USA, said something the other week that has bothered me enough to start this thread, and I am sure there may be others that excite comment, now and in the future.

Specifically, Mr Pence offered his penny's worth of opinion on the grim case of Charlie Gard, an 11-month baby in London suffering from Mitochondrial DNA Depletion Syndrome, a horrible condition which causes the body's cells and organs to shut down and induces epilepsy, as well as deafness and possibly brain damage. Charlie has been on life support and the legal questions concerned whether or not his life support should be shut down, or whether or not there are indeed medical procedures that offer hope of life. The High Court in London decided that there was no hope, after rejecting a late claim by a US based neurologist Michio Hirano that his proposed treatment offered a less than 10% chance of working, not even having been tested yet on laboratory mice. That Hirano had not offered his help for six months during which the case was live, and stood to gain financially from his proposed method merely underlines how dubious some of the external interventions were.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ce-nhs-failure

Pence entered the debate along with the Pope and the US President all of whom subscribe to the claim (utterly bogus in the case of the USA) that every life is precious and who offerered all sorts of promises and claims which made no difference to the case.

This is what Pence said:
The heartbreaking story of the 11-month-old Charlie Gard in England is a story of single-payer. I know you’ve covered that on this program. And it’s back in court today and frankly we breathe a prayer and the hope that the single-payer system in England will see its way clear to allow the family – the mother and the father – to be able to choose the greatest extent of life-saving treatment that’s available to their child.
Under single payer people are submitted to a government program that says, “no, we’re going to remove life support from your precious 11-month-old child” because the government has decided that the prospects of their life are such that they no longer warrant an investment in health services.

We hope and pray that little Charlie Gard gets every chance, but the American people ought to reflect on the fact that for all the talk on the left about single-payer, that’s where it takes us.
http://www.lifenews.com/2017/07/10/v...-every-chance/

One wonders where Mr Pence gets his information from, as the decisions made about Charlie Gard's medical treatment were made by the medical staff at Great Ormond St Children's Hospital, not the government. The State only became involved through the Courts as the legal system was asked to decide who has the right to decide the fate of a patient when, as in this case, the patient is both too young and unable to speak for himself. It has nothing to with the government, and also nothing to do with the investment in health services, but the clinical judgement GOSH made that there was nothing more medically that could be done to hep Charlie Gard's condition. The legal conflict existed between the parents of Charlie Gard and the medical professionals.

It is also a nonsense to refer to the NHS as if it were the sole preserve of 'the left' when the NHS in the UK is similar to health services in Sweden, Norway, France and Germany and in all cases has been preserved and promoted by governments of all kinds from left, right and centre.

Pence offered his opinion probably more as part of the determination to take health care away from Americans, than to comment on the NHS in the UK. Just yesterday he joined with other Republicans and indeed, Senator John McCain to re-open the debate on American health care, taking away insurance cover for sufferers of cancer, the very illness that McCain has recently been treated for -because he can afford it. Rather than criticise 'single payer' health care, one wonders what Pence has to say to his fellow Americans who can't pay for health care when cancer strikes.

Presumably they are left to die, possibly because there isn't a Christian around who cares enough to help those less fortunate than themselves...

[sukumvit boy]

Heartbreaking for Baby Charlie Gard and his family and shameful for Mike Pence and those who would stoop so low as to use them as a political / ideological football .
In light of updated tests and clinical findings the family have decided to remove life support and move Baby Charlie to hospice care , he is expected to expire by Friday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/ch...-legal-battle/

[filghy2]

This is not surprising, given pretty much everything Trump and the Republican leadership have said about Obamacare repeal has been blatant lies https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...e-repeal-lying

[sukumvit boy]

Excellent Vox article ,filghty2.
Indeed , the Republican drive to repeal and replace Obamacare has exposed a system in deep trouble . A chief executive who tells us he sits in the Oval Office ," pen in hand" , ready to sign legislation which he makes no attempt to explain or support and House and Senate Republicans ready to pass a bill which they neither understand nor support ;which will create life and death policy affecting millions of Americans.
"Things fall apart;the centre cannot hold ..."
I think Stavros started this thread, with prescient focus on Mike Pence, knowing that he could well have called it "The President Mike Pence Thread". Since that is certainly where we are headed.

[Stavros]

The VOX article was indeed a scorching judgemet, but I think Ezra Klein missed the trick that McCain pulled. He voted to continue the process knowing that in procedural terms if it was voted down after subsequent debates and votes, it would be killed -thus he took one step back to enable the process to meet its end, knowing he would have the power to kill it. You will have to decide if this is his revenge for the insults and abuse that Trump dished out to him over the last year, although so far the President has attacked Lisa Murkowski while her Republican partner in the Senate, Dan Sullivan claims Ryan Zinke, Interior Secretary has threatened to punish Alaska for her vote with the implication that Federal permission for drilling rights or other energy related policies will not be given.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...amacare-repeal

I don't know about Mike Pence's future, but it is there for all to predict. What I find 'intriguing' is the man's public declarations of his Christian faith, and some of the peculiarities this brings to his behaviour -such as not being alone in a room with a woman who is not his wife or relative. You might think that is the opposite of what we assume about his boss, but it is eerily not so far from those Muslims or Orthodox Jews who are also reluctant to place themselves in close proximity to women, be it in rooms, aeroplanes, buses or even streets. Yet does this say more about his fear of his own -uncontrollable?- desire than it does about women?

He also strikes me as being very dull, which might be an asset after the relentless publicity mania of the President and his new Press wallah becomes too much, even for Republicans.

[Stavros]

The VOX article was indeed a scorching judgemet, but I think Ezra Klein missed the trick that McCain pulled. He voted to continue the process knowing that in procedural terms if it was voted down after subsequent debates and votes, it would be killed -thus he took one step back to enable the process to meet its end, knowing he would have the power to kill it. You will have to decide if this is his revenge for the insults and abuse that Trump dished out to him over the last year, although so far the President has attacked Lisa Murkowski while her Republican partner in the Senate, Dan Sullivan claims Ryan Zinke, Interior Secretary has threatened to punish Alaska for her vote with the implication that Federal permission for drilling rights or other energy related policies will not be given.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...amacare-repeal

I don't know about Mike Pence's future, but it is there for all to predict. What I find 'intriguing' is the man's public declarations of his Christian faith, and some of the peculiarities this brings to his behaviour -such as not being alone in a room with a woman who is not his wife or relative. You might think that is the opposite of what we assume about his boss, but it is eerily not so far from those Muslims or Orthodox Jews who are also reluctant to place themselves in close proximity to women, be it in rooms, aeroplanes, buses or even streets. Yet does this say more about his fear of his own -uncontrollable?- desire than it does about women?

He also strikes me as being very dull, which might be an asset after the relentless publicity mania of the President and his new Press wallah becomes too much, even for Republicans.

[Stavros]

Hmmm, not sure how I managed to post that twice. In the meantime we learn that senior members of the Administration attend Bible Study sessions led by Ralph Drollinger of Capitol Ministries-

Regular attendees include Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, Energy Secretary Rick Perry, Agriculture Secretary Sunny Perdue, CIA Director Mike Pompeo and Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

Mike Pence is a regular when he has time, but this priceless remark by Drollinger had me laughing over my breakfast this morning-

Mr Drollinger heaped praise on Vice President Mike Pence who is known for his profoundly conservative views on marriage equality and LGBT rights and record of supporting the widely discredited practice of gay conversion therapy.

"Mike Pence has respect for the office. He dresses right - like it says Joseph cleaned himself up before he went to stand before the Pharaoh," he said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7871556.html

[flabbybody]

I'm forever amazed at how GOP officials who advocate the most vile policies against the poor and underprivileged seem odsessesed with publicly displaying their Christianity. I am an agnostic but I hope they're right about the existence of eternal hell, a place they're surely headed. Of course agnostics won't fare any better but at least we're not hypocrites.
As for Pence, his ideology almost makes Trump's look humane. But I accept him as less disgusting to look at every day so I pray that Trump will be forced out of office prematurely.

[Budweiser]

Very glad that a rock like Mike Pence is one heartbeat away from the presidency, rather than a loony bird like Tim Kaine.

[trish]

Yeah. Pence would be like a rock of crack cocaine. We'd grow even more paranoid, women's rights would die on the vine, being transgendered in the 'wrong' rest room would be regarded as a criminal transgression against the 'Christian foundations of the nation,' and the separation of Church and State would go down the toilet. What would suffer most are the heart, liver and kidneys of our democracy. Remember kids, don't do Pence. It's just like Trump, only better focused.

[Stavros]

And Mike Pence is a Republican, whereas...

Trump is a Democrat working undercover.He's not just any Dem, though. He's a bitterly scheming, conniving one who will go to any lengths, even sacrificing his own dignity, to bring the Republican establishment down.
Pay no attention to that June tweet in which he called Democrats "obstructionists." Ignore that picture he tweeted in March of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer with Russian President Vladimir Putin from 2003, calling the Democrat a "total hypocrite" and demanding an investigation.
Those were just distractions. Trump's real target is the Republican Party. House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are at the top of his hit list. And they have plenty of reasons to be scared.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...06-column.html

[Stavros]

And Mike Pence is a Republican, whereas...

Trump is a Democrat working undercover.He's not just any Dem, though. He's a bitterly scheming, conniving one who will go to any lengths, even sacrificing his own dignity, to bring the Republican establishment down.
Pay no attention to that June tweet in which he called Democrats "obstructionists." Ignore that picture he tweeted in March of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer with Russian President Vladimir Putin from 2003, calling the Democrat a "total hypocrite" and demanding an investigation.
Those were just distractions. Trump's real target is the Republican Party. House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are at the top of his hit list. And they have plenty of reasons to be scared.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...06-column.html