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  1. #1
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    Default The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    People may disagree with the extent to which the Trump administration and many of its supporters are directly linked to the so-called 'Alt-Right' movement, if it is a movement. Indeed, those who are not sure what it actually refers to, can read an article which offers An Establishment Conservative's Guide to the Alt-Right, written by Allum Bokhari and Milo Yiannopoulos [hereafter BY], and published by Breitbart on the 29 March 2016.

    The article draws on a range of 'thinkers' some of whom, like Julius Evola, shall we say 'evolved' out of Italian fascism after 1945 to make an attempt to restore the 'traditional' aspirations of the Italian people which appears merely to have been a less strident form of Fascism -Steven Bannon having cited the 'traditionalism' of Evola as one of his inspirations. The article makes the by now standard dismissal of academia and the media, cheerfully ignoring the extent to which the Moral Majority and related Christian Evangelists infiltrated US universities in the 1970s precisely to combat 'the left' through the creation of think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute, while many of us wonder how Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers get a free pass when their media outlets have been instrumental in undermining 'the left' and led a relentless attack on the Obama presidency from Day One. Who would have thought Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity are on the wrong side?

    Ultimately, buried in this interesting if confused article is a simple argument -America is a White Christian Nation, a tribe of people who built it for themselves and no-one else. Immigration is thus crucial to preventing the further erosion of that identity, for the US -and by implication Europe- is facing a long term crisis as non-white non-Christians seek entry. Thus, an article which condemns identity politics, ends up endorsing its own version of the same.

    What is striking about their presentation is that BY offer an argument that rejects the Conservatism associated with Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, arguing that Culture rather than Economics determines the fate of countries like the USA.

    The emphasis on Culture allows them to insist that its most perfect expression, The Nation, exists as an all-inclusive body which, rather than acknowledging social diversity, seeks to erase it in favour of one all-consuming identity. Indeed, is is because identity politics appears to subtract from the whole a mosaic of groups that is has undermined that most solid and essential of the building blocks of America -the nuclear family led by A Man. Thus, BY quote approvingly 'Gas Masculinist' Jack Donovan who combines the alleged attack on the family with bad economics:

    It’s tragic to think that heroic man’s great destiny is to become economic man, that men will be reduced to craven creatures who crawl across the globe competing for money, who spend their nights dreaming up new ways to swindle each other. That’s the path we’re on now.

    An additional perspective has been offered by 'NeoReactionaries' (#NRx) who have subjected the 'secular religions of the establishment' to a severe critique to argue-

    Liberal democracy...had no better a historical track record than monarchy, while egalitarianism flew in the face of every piece of research on hereditary intelligence. Asking people to see each other as human beings rather than members of a demographic in-group, meanwhile, ignored every piece of research on tribal psychology.

    Perhaps a key passage in BY is its endorsement of the views of Jonathan Haidt where they identify the true Conservative instinct-

    The conservative instinct, as described by Haidt, includes a preference for homogeneity over diversity, for stability over change, and for hierarchy and order over radical egalitarianism. Their instinctive wariness of the foreign and the unfamiliar is an instinct that we all share – an evolutionary safeguard against excessive, potentially perilous curiosity – but natural conservatives feel it with more intensity. They instinctively prefer familiar societies, familiar norms, and familiar institutions.


    It follows from this that difference becomes a threat to the 'familiar norms' of society, but is shaped by 'Race' and therefore requires 'separation-
    The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. The alt-right believe that some degree of separation between peoples is necessary for a culture to be preserved. A Mosque next to an English street full of houses bearing the flag of St. George, according to alt-righters, is neither an English street nor a Muslim street — separation is necessary for distinctiveness.

    Crucial to the argument is that it is 'establishment' conservatives who have enabled the rot to set in -

    It’s arguable that natural conservatives haven’t had real political representation for decades. Since the 1980s, establishment Republicans have obsessed over economics and foreign policy, fiercely defending the Reagan-Thatcher economic consensus at home and neoconservative interventionism abroad. In matters of culture and morality, the issues that natural conservatives really care about, all territory has been ceded to the Left, which now controls the academy, the entertainment industry and the press.

    And thus we arrive at the point of departure -
    For decades – since the 1960s, in fact – the media and political establishment have held a consensus over what’s acceptable and unacceptable to discuss in polite society. The politics of identity, when it comes from women, LGBT people, blacks and other non-white, non-straight, non-male demographics is seen as acceptable...

    Any discussion of white identity, or white interests, is seen as a heretical offence...

    The solution is thus to reject all of the accepted prejudices that the Alt-Right claims have undermined the essential integrity of The Nation. It rejects what it perceives to have been both the 'cultural hegemony' of the 'left' as managed in academia and the media, but also the market-obsessed conservatives whose pursuit of the dollar left 'their own tribe' behind.

    Needless to say, it has gone far enough and what Trump has crystallised among the ignored masses is a belief that it is not too late, and that they can both fight back against identity politics, and succeed in restoring a sense of purpose to The Nation. What they cannot present is a coherent solution to the rights that people from diverse backgrounds have not to be discriminated against, just as there is a bizarre assumption that all of those angry white Americans loathe queers and Blacks, when the same people have gay children, and admire Black people and may even count some among their friends.

    Nevertheless, a useful presentation of dead-end politics, for those keen to take a trip on the road to nowhere.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/0...the-alt-right/


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  2. #2
    Hung Angel Platinum Poster trish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    If natural conservatives merely wished to isolate themselves from other cultures as, for example the Amish do, one might be able to accommodate their choice (as long as such accommodation doesn’t unduly disadvantage their children or overlook abuse). What natural conservatives want (at least those who aren’t the ‘intellectuals’ of the movement) is to universally institute their practices. It is not enough for them that a woman who might be a ‘natural conservative’ may choose to carry her pregnancy to term, rather they insist there should be no choice: all women should carry to term. It is not enough that a ‘natural conservative’ man can choose to deny his homosexuality, but rather there should be no choice: all homosexuals should deny their nature - there should be no place for gays, lesbians or transgender in our larger society.

    Those who accuse the left of playing ‘identity politics’ have cleverly coined a term whose literal meaning is exactly the opposite of how they use it. On the face of it “identity politics” means a political stance that favors a particular tribe or identity over others. But it is repeatedly applied as a description of liberal politics which in fact attempts to treat all people fairly regardless of their tribe. The alt-right, on the other hand, quite clearly is all about maintaining the political supremacy of the tribe of white Christian males - and that is ‘identity politics’ par excellence.
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    "...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.

    "...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    Quote Originally Posted by trish View Post
    If natural conservatives merely wished to isolate themselves from other cultures as, for example the Amish do, one might be able to accommodate their choice (as long as such accommodation doesn’t unduly disadvantage their children or overlook abuse). What natural conservatives want (at least those who aren’t the ‘intellectuals’ of the movement) is to universally institute their practices. It is not enough for them that a woman who might be a ‘natural conservative’ may choose to carry her pregnancy to term, rather they insist there should be no choice: all women should carry to term. It is not enough that a ‘natural conservative’ man can choose to deny his homosexuality, but rather there should be no choice: all homosexuals should deny their nature - there should be no place for gays, lesbians or transgender in our larger society.

    Those who accuse the left of playing ‘identity politics’ have cleverly coined a term whose literal meaning is exactly the opposite of how they use it. On the face of it “identity politics” means a political stance that favors a particular tribe or identity over others. But it is repeatedly applied as a description of liberal politics which in fact attempts to treat all people fairly regardless of their tribe. The alt-right, on the other hand, quite clearly is all about maintaining the political supremacy of the tribe of white Christian males - and that is ‘identity politics’ par excellence.
    From a UK perspective, I can see the way the alt-right argument presents demographic change in the USA as the greatest challenge to the historic dominance of one social group over another, notably in politics and the economy. Immigration is being used in Europe as well as the US as the litmus-test for the loyalty of the political class to 'their tribe' and it is because of immigration that alt-right uses words like 'betrayal' to describe what others would call 'human rights', but as we know the alt-right loathe and detest the very concept of human rights, because if they exist, everyone has them, and what they want is to limit rights, not extend them.

    The danger is that part of the alt-right agenda is a rejection of the international political system which, though rooted in the UN that succeeded the Second World War, dates back centuries to the treaties of Westphalia in 1648. And yes, at various times between then and now there were international agreements which prevented wars and promoted economic co-operation and these broke down, but what I see in alt-right is a deliberate attempt to break down both international organizations like the UN and the EU, and the agreements that go with them, which range from co-operation on health and communications to technology and economics. The view is simple -instead of a world of trading blocs and trade deals and international bureaucracy, states should be free to pursue their own interests without reference to any other authority, the USA being big enough and rich enough to go it alone without being responsible for other people's problems, and without surrendering its 'sovereignty' to bodies it cannot control.

    The UK used to have an Empire and took the same attitude when it declined to join the nascent European community at its origins in the 1950s, but we now have the spectacle of leaving the EU from which we have benefited at every level, to see the Prime Minister in effect go cap in hand to the USA to beg the right to sup at its table. I just don't see how the world will be a better place if the EU is replaced by states competing for the same prize, and in any case expect if the EU in its present form were to dissolve a new format with many of the existing states would replace it. But what it would do is enhance the powers of states such as Russia and China, it would lift sanctions and other pressures on states like North Korea and Saudi Arabia, and cause more problems than we have at the moment. It is this indifference to the rest of the world and the USA turning inwards that undermines everything we achieved since 1945 because of what went before it, and it is no surprise that David Irving is delighted that a new generation of people no longer take for granted what they have been told about Hitler and the Holocaust, and are prepared to reject the evidence of history as at the very least an 'alternative fact' if not a lie.

    But the Nationalist movement -there is no such thing as populism- wants to have its day. It wants a France pour les Francais, a narrowly conceived Dutch for the Dutch and so on, it wants to halt immigration, in some cases to begin 'sending them back' and my view is that even if we have to endure this backwards glance to a nostalgic Europe that never existed, the reality is that in the world we live in we cannot survive without co-operating, on trade, on human rights, on health, on climate change and so on. Trump may be taking all of us, not just the USA into a dark place, but we have been there before, and it doesn't work and in time people will see that, just as we do not know if Wilders will win in the Netherlands, or Le Pen in France.

    One also notes in the article I cited in the op the delight BY take in citing the 'internet pranksters' and their irreverent attitude to established norms and values, but this also leads to a deterioration in the use of language and a general tone of hostility and rage that makes genuine debate impossible, so that one side ends up shouting at the other and there is no hope of dialogue or agreement. That confrontation and intimidation is the result makes this whole situation nasty and ugly, but is the chosen vehicle for those for whom democracy is a failed experiment. Ultimately, in the US either the separation of powers will eat away at Trump's long term ambitions, or the system itself may buckle with who knows what consequences. And we are just 10, let alone 100 days into this experiment.


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  4. #4
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    More people need to consider the Libertarian Party. It offers more freedom than your typical Red / Blue conundrum. Who wants 50% of their paycheck taken? Nobody really? Who wants marriage open to all? A lot of people. So have your cake and eat it.



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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    More insight into the 'alt-right' has emerged with a Memo written by Rich Higgins, until recently on the staff of the NSA before McMaster decided to sack him. The memo identifies the seven groups conspiring to have the President removed from office. All the usual suspects here, Marxist Academics, the Media, the Republican leadership, Global corporations and bankers, Islamists etc ...read and enjoy-
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-rich-higgins


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  6. #6
    filghy2 Silver Poster
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    "cultural Marxist themes that dominate the prevailing cultural narrative" - so the communists are still pulling the strings and all of these people are their stooges? What exactly were this guys qualifications to be on the NSC staff?



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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    Quote Originally Posted by filghy2 View Post
    "cultural Marxist themes that dominate the prevailing cultural narrative" - so the communists are still pulling the strings and all of these people are their stooges? What exactly were this guys qualifications to be on the NSC staff?
    Higgins was in the military where he developed expertise in explosives, went to the Justice Department and from there to the Pentagon. I assume at some point he left, possibly in the transition period between the Bush and Obama administrations and then was hired for the NSC earlier this year. His interview is worth watching, albeit a tedious half hour, in that he makes it clear that he believes the US has lost the 'war on terror' and that the Muslim Brotherhood is winning it, primarily because the Obama administration has capitulated to the political correctness brigades, secondarily because they have formed a strategic alliance with the left. Political Correctness is the greatest threat to the USA and, indeed, to Western Civilization.

    What Higgins does is underline the extent to which this 'alt-right' perspective believes that 'American philosophy' is right and good but is under sustained attack from its enemies who have captured the commanding heights of domestic and foreign policy. There is no discussion as such of issues such as 'race' and intellectually, it appears that these particular conservatives have no time for the inherited conservative lineage of William F. Buckley, Irving and Bill Kristol, and never mentions 'Neo-cons' like Donald Rumsfeld or Dck Cheney, indeed, Higgins suggests they too capitulated to the Muslim Brotherhood through the Council on Islamic American Relations and the widespread use of the word 'Islamophobia' after 9/11 -because the PC brigades attach the word 'phobia' to the 'narratives' of oppression that smuggle cultural Marxism into the language of everyday politics. The constant reference to the Muslim Brotherhood as the major enemy helps explain, in part, the alliance the administration made with Saudi Arabia in its attempt to isolate and destroy the emirate of Qatar recently.

    The full text of the memo that led to Higgins' firing is in the first link. Note the point made early on:
    ' "Transgender acceptance" memes attack at the most basic level by denying a person the right to declare the biological fact of one's sex'.(page 2)

    For a memo that says if you oppose the President you oppose America, there is a bizarre twist toward the end where he argues that the cultural Marxist agenda needs urban development as this makes it easier to extend the powers of government and control the people which results in

    "population control by certain business cartels in league with cultural Marxists/corporatists/Islamists who will leverage Islamic terrorism threats to justify the creation of a police state"
    (page 5).

    I can think of a German immigrant called Drumpf who created an urban real estate company -ok not a cartel- but let's not go there.

    Full text of memo is here:
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/...ew-up-the-nsc/

    Interview with Higgins (February 2016) is here-
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/02/fo...-terror-video/


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  8. #8
    Junior Poster nitron's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think this is what the alt right might reply to all the lefties here.



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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    Quote Originally Posted by nitron View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	The Resistance..jpg 
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ID:	1024466 "The Resistance"
    I think this is what the alt right might reply to all the lefties here.
    I was going to respond with a condemnation of these people and a distinction, but my first thought is holy shit how the hell are the men with torches, steel shields, metal poles and half a dozen guns going to defend themselves against these women?

    By the way, that ignoramus Cantwell from the vice documentary of Charlottesville was pictured on the first evening spraying someone in the face at close range with pepper spray. Now, those who watched the documentary will recall him rolling on the floor begging for milk on the face while his buddies yelled "heil Cantwell". Might he have gotten his own pepper spray in his eyes? You know that saying don't piss into the wind, it applies to pepper spray as well.

    Anyway, it's a feeble response since it doesn't explain why these clowns are yelling racist slogans to begin with.


    Last edited by broncofan; 08-19-2017 at 03:48 AM.

  10. #10
    Junior Poster nitron's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'Alt-Right' in their own words

    Personally, I found this upsetting.....




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