Donald Trump Presidency-Day One

[Stavros]

As a spiritual person, i see a spiritual issue here. It can boil down to a simple issue of positive thinking vs negative thinking.

I understand the point you are making, and would refer back to the 2008 election in comparison with 2016, because I take the view that the voters don't want to hear bad things, but good things. I was right about 2008, wrong about 2016, even though in numerical terms, the Republican campaign of complaint lost to the Democrat more positive vision by nearly 3 million votes.

In 2008 there were very real events that were negative -the financial crash, the consequence of regime change in Iraq, to name just two- and the message of hope that Obama proclaimed was designed to retrieve from those failures an alternative vision of what Americans could do to be different, to repair their financial system, to be more cautious in international relations, and focus on the future.

That Obama was not always able to achieve what he set out to achieve is not his fault unless you blame him for not being more aggressive or innovative in his policies, on the Middle East in particular. That said, there is a sorry history of US Presidents determined to 'make a difference' in the Middle East who ended up, as all are fated to do, being recruited by one side or another for their own purposes, damaging the US whatever it does.

What was disturbing about 2016, and continues to disturb, is the sheer volume of negative comments, the relentless attacks, the extraordinary language used to demonize opponents. Nothing as bad as 2008 happened to the US during the Obama Presidency, yet one would think from the campaign rhetoric that the USA was on the verge of collapse and only one man could save it. The attacks are extraordinary because of the depiction of opponents as liars and traitors, for no other reason than they are opponents.

It is true that this kind of partisan warfare was used by Newton Gingrich to attack Bill Clinton and the Democrats in the 1990s, and that Mitch McConnell has taken it to new levels, or depths, but I think while you may be right to imply a 'spiritual' anxiety at work, I think it needs to be fleshed out more, because a lot of the issues that appear in the Republican narrative of 'what went wrong' reach back through Obama and Clinton to the Civil Rights era of the 1960s but for some, to the Civil War, so that it may be the odd fact -odd to most of us who live outside the USA- that religion can be manipulated for political purposes because it matters so much to Americans, yet appears also to be irrational rather than spiritual. You have to marvel at the way in which Abortion becomes a 'Pro-Life' issue with the 'sanctity of human life' at its core, from people who don't blink when aborting a life with a drone in Afghanistan, Pakistan or the Yemen, as well as shooting dead unarmed men based on a moment's irrational fear.When Trotsky ridiculed opponents of Bolshevik Revolution with the words (translations vary) We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life, he might well have been speaking for today's Republicans.

If you compare the USA with the Republic of Ireland, you find that one of the most dependable Roman Catholic countries in the world has in the last 10 years been transformed by a population that either just does not believe with the fervour it once did, or has become disillusioned with a religious institution that has failed its congregations, not just through sexual abuse involving the clergy, but the revelations of the fierce, brutal conditions children were subjected to in Catholic Schools. Not long ago I found myself chatting to an Irish woman at a bus stop in town, and without being prompted she said she hated the Church because of what the nuns did to her when she was a child. 'I know Jesus loves me' she said, but she had nothing good to say about the Church. But now Ireland not only has legal same-sex marriages, its Prime Minister is openly gay, something that would have been inconceivable just 20 years ago, and Abortion is now legal. By way of contrast, the USA, for so long considered the country of the future, appears to be walking backwards.

And it is in that past that I think the secrets lie, that many Americans hate the country that the USA has become, if they perceive themselves to be Americans descended from the 'White Christians of European Origin' who they claim created the USA, which they see being 'taken away' from them by Asians, by Muslims, by Latinos, and worst of all, by Black people. In spite of their Christian heritage, I wonder if a hard core of them have ever regarded Black people as humans beings, let alone their equals. When a Black man entered the White House as President, the dam broke, there was nothing left to live for, the physical, intellectual and spiritual heart of their country had been torn apart: the slaves had taken over the plantation. The abuse that followed crystallized in that one perpetual question: Is Obama American?

And if you want to bring the Satan fantasy into it, then the USA became a a hell on earth of multiple languages, multiple ethnicities, and multiple identities: and God, Family and Country are the foundation of the USA and now is the time to return the USA to its original owners, though the children of God seem reluctant to admit they are the offspring in a one-parent family.

That the USA was made by so many languages, ethnicities and identities is now dismissed as if it were the problem, with damaging consequences. A similar argument is the meat in the inedible sandwich made by Bannonades and European Fascists who have never accepted any form of 'multi-culturalism' as a natural condition, and seek to 'restore' their fantasy of a White, Christian Europe' which in reality either never existed, or when it did, was convulsed with the periodic wars driven by hate and greed that ended with the catastrophe of 1945 from which we thought we had survived through community rather than conflict -ironic, because it was not explicitly Christian, the kind of community Jesus might approve of.

So when you refer to the spiritual condition in the USA, I fear it reflects division rather than unity, that it leads people to cherry pick their way through their sacred texts to justify whatever they want, and that in policy terms it relies on a negative narrative of loss, failure and crisis to engineer changes that will not make the USA a better place to live in. Or Filghy2 may be right and this is just a blip in American politics and that 'normal service will be resumed' in 2020 if not the mid-terms. Maybe, but a lot of damage has been done, on top of the deep divisions that have always existed in US society, divisions which exist, often in other forms in the UK and across Europe -but divisions that need not be the cause of destruction. We seem to be losing more than we are gaining, and so much of it based on bogus argument manipulated by people more concerned with their wealth and power than the wider interests of society.

[buttslinger]

When I was in Colledge, we had to do a project on Utopia, we split the class into groups of five, and the five of us had to get together and come up with our version of a modern Utopia. Of course I hated it, if you want the best Utopia, just find the hundred most Utopian People in the World, get funding from large Foundations or the Gov't. VOILA -utopia.
What's better, a perfect World, or a perfect Person?

[broncofan]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...88295618682881

The threat alone without any execution should be impeachable. I don't have the book in front of me but Cass Sunstein's Citizens Guide to Impeachment contained examples of impeachable conduct. Threatening a private company with punitive action because of its criticism of you is more severe than many of the cases of impeachment that took place in colonial America. Since there is not a great deal of precedent for the use of the impeachment clause after the ratification of the Constitution and since the clause has its historic roots both in Colonial America and in England of the King's ministers these examples are instructive.

I'm not expecting Republicans to do anything about it of course.

[Stavros]

Subsidies, subsidies, who in a free market economy believes in subsidies?

From This:
President Donald J. Trump
YEARS OF UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES: China has consistently taken advantage of the American economy with practices that undermine fair and reciprocal trade.

• For many years, China has pursued industrial policies and unfair trade practices—including dumping, discriminatory non-tariff barriers, forced technology transfer, over capacity, and industrial subsidies—that champion Chinese firms and make it impossible for many United States firms to compete on a level playing field.
  
• China has dumped and unfairly subsidized a range of goods for the United States market, undermining America’s domestic industry.
• In 2018 alone, the Trump Administration has found dumping or unfair subsidies on 13 different products, including steel wheels, cold-drawn mechanical tubing, tool chests and cabinets, forged steel fittings, aluminum foil, rubber bands, cast iron soil pipe and fittings, and large diameter welded pipe.
• https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...rade-policies/

To this:
Trump to offer farmers $12B in trade aid

By ADAM BEHSUDI, CATHERINE BOUDREAU, HELENA BOTTEMILLER EVICH and MEGAN CASSELLA

07/24/2018 10:04 AM
Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue on Tuesday unveiled a three-part, $12 billion plan to ease the sting of retaliatory tariffs on U.S. farmers through a mix of payments, purchases and trade promotion efforts.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...farmers-737108

Eat yer grits, America!

[buttslinger]

Maybe Trump will give a five thousand dollar tax deduction to anyone who votes for him.
You trying to tell the DealMaker he can't deal?
Obama did the same thing with his Cash4Clunkers, precedent. Obama did it.

[broncofan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/24/the-trump-michael-cohen-tape-transcript-annotated/?utm_term=.13bfdc489d5d

"COHEN: All the stuff. Because — here, you never know where that company — you never know what he’s —

TRUMP: Maybe he gets hit by a truck.

COHEN: Correct. So, I’m all over that...."

[Stavros]

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!


8:50 am - 24 Jul 2018
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...84726217142273
(My emphasis)

Hmmm..guess that proves what a feeble loser JFK was during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As for Reagan, is it true he said
Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall! And can you get me a coke, Please?

[buttslinger]

Just saw the article on the ouster of Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle, sounds good, because basically she was a bitch. Roger Ailes called her "that Puerto Rican whore"...good one, Roger.
Now that the noose is tightening around Trump's neck, I say lets be hospitable and see how many others we can fit in the noose. Live by the Donald, Die by the Donald.

[Stavros]

Have any of the people who interview Rudolph Giuliani told him to his face he is a liar?

The latest is a perfect example of the problem we now have where the lies they tell are not designed to 'cover their own ass' but to condemn someone else.

Here is Giuliani on Michael Cohen on the 26th May 2018 saying that Cohen
"is an honest, honorable lawyer."

But on the 27th of July 2018 saying of Cohen
“He has lied all his life… a person who is found to be an incredible liar, he’s got a tremendous motive to lie now… I don’t think anyone believes that.”
http://theweek.com/speedreads/787243...ncredible-liar

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

Is there really nothing that can be done to put a stop to this, have interviewers now got to challenge, live on air the rubbish people like Giuliani say, or just do the next best thing and not ask for them for their opinion at all? I mean, the man is a lawyer! If you reach a point where the President, the Attorney General, and a host of professional lawyers all tell lies what does this say about a political system where at one time even one small lie exposed would ether result in instant resignation and words of regret or in the case of Bill Clinton lead directly to Impeachment.

Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell since the 1990s have undermined the rule of law, and eroded any sense of moral decency in politics by making lying and a distortion of the truth a legitimate political weapon. Lives may not have been lost, but is it not democracy that lies wounded on the battlefield, shot down by the very people who were supposed to protect it?

[broncofan]

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

We've had a lot of developments over the last few days and it's only made the case for impeachment more obvious though as you indicate the end result depends on the Republican party and the voters. I find the longer it takes to explain bad behavior the more likely it is to elicit a yawn. If it is something like obstruction in which you have a President thwarting his own law enforcement agents it's sadly a longer explanation and seems to the layman to be petty even though nothing more seriously undermines the integrity of our system.

On the other hand, we now have statements from Cohen that Trump knew about Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. I am going out on a limb and guessing that there will eventually be some additional corroboration of this fact, whether via email or phone records or additional testimony. The question then becomes whether something like this can be quickly turned into a meme or a campaign ad and is short enough for the average person to digest the duplicity involved in all of his evasions.

Imagine an ad that contrasts Trump's numerous statements saying he doesn't think it was Russia or that he did not collude with verbal testimony that he knew what Russia did. Play Trump's fawning over Putin and Russia against the fact that he knew they helped him win the election. It's sad that it may need to be short enough for a soundbyte.

And we won't get all of his voters, but we may peel off a few, but the midterms are approaching, and winning is the first step for the return of accountability and the rule of law.