Should the T be in LGBT ?

[robertlouis]

Great original question, Maddy. I think the situation is different in the UK, where there is quite a lot of political cohesion on the trans side and I don't sense any enmity with lesbians and gays at that political level. Add the fact that there's consistent political goodwill towards extending gay and other sexual minority rights and it therefore makes sense for the various strands of the LGBT collective to co-operate.

Individually, I suppose it's likely to be the same as in the US.

[Stavros]

Historically, transexuals have been ridiculed by both gay men and lesbians -the Stonewall Riots which transformed gender politics in the USA were initiated by transexuals, like Silvia Rivera, who testified the degree to which she and other transexuals, transvestites and drag queens were marginalised by gay men who were horrified at the thought of men in frocks leading 'their revolution' -the Gay Activists Alliance realpolitik argued that they would get nowhere with American society with queens in tow because the stereotype of the 'limp-wristed fag' was precisely what they wanted to get away from to prove to America that gay men were just like every other American. It didn't take long for the revolutionary leaders to meet their guillotine, as it were. Lesbians have been known to despise transexuals, but I dont' know if it is still as hostile as it used to be; are drag kings marginal within lesbian societies?

LGBT to me is a political alliance rather than a meeting place of like minds with shared cultural norms. But, since LGBT people are indeed just a variation of everyone else, it means that LGBT people do not share common interests or ideas about everything. On that basis should there be an L, a G, a B and a T all in one word?

Sylvia Rivera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MrsKellyPierce]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...

[MrsKellyPierce]

AND FYI Transgenders are just as guilty of making fun/vilifying gay men...

Because so many transgenders want to disassociate themselves entirely from gays...

And this is the reason why there is Tension between the two..

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...

Well you do have a point with that part since strength does come in numbers but the fact that they don't call it the LGBT"C" speaks volumes. LOL

Seriously Chaser's, Trades and Tranny lovers aren't all bad. But we have no business in that lot with LGB. And saying that Tgirls do simply because mainstream are all idiots doesn't sit too well with me either. That's not so say that we should turn our backs on either, we're all human. But to be honest I was never to partial the labeling game to begin with.

Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian....these terms were all made up with in the last 200 hundred years. And their meanings have changed considerably during this time. Hell even "queer's" true meaning was something that's against the norm and now it just means "homosexual". And yet people refer them as if they've been around since the beginning of time especially when religion is concerned.

And keep in mind before Rome fell, sex was everywhere. I'm talking statues of penises, vagina monuments, gang bang portraits... Then once Rome fell the prudes came in deeming everything as filth.

So if I had a say in this I'd say that I represent the grey area.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Well you do have a point with that part since strength does come in numbers but the fact that they don't call it the LGBT"C" speaks volumes. LOL

Seriously Chaser's, Trades and Tranny lovers aren't all bad. But we have no business in that lot with LGB. And saying that Tgirls do simply because mainstream are all idiots doesn't sit too well with me either. That's not so say that we should turn our backs on either, we're all human. But to be honest I was never to partial the labeling game to begin with.

Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian....these terms were all made up with in the last 200 hundred years. And their meanings have changed considerably during this time. Hell even "queer's" true meaning was something that's against the norm and now it just means "homosexual". And yet people refer them as if they've been around since the beginning of time especially when religion is concerned.

And keep in mind before Rome fell, sex was everywhere. I'm talking statues of penises, vagina monuments, gang bang portraits... Then once Rome fell the prudes came in deeming everything as filth.

So if I had a say in this I'd say that I represent the grey area.

Most chasers do nothing to help what they are into..

They vote Republican

They vote against anything to help our community

While all along sucking dick and take it in the ass

Either by a man or a transsexual

[maddygirl]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...

Hm, good point, Kelly. I don't necessarily agree that it should always be together from an eeducational standpoint. As you said people consider us "men with boobs" and that's what I I feel we should work to change, so people can understand us. Although, I think being in the LBGT could probably help us for passing progressive laws and furthering our rights, so I think there's good and bad aspects of both situations. However, I think educating the public and getting more rights as trans people, are closely related, and being in a gay community having people think we're homosexual... isn't helping educate anyone. But, that's just my opinion, but you have a lot of valid points and it's awesome that you do what you do for the lgbt community, you rock girl.

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

Most chasers do nothing to help what they are into..

They vote Republican

They vote against anything to help our community

While all along sucking dick and take it in the ass

Either by a man or a transsexual

That's a cop out.

Plus you have no proof that every chaser is a republican. Though I will say that republicans are some of the most backwards Hippocrates on earth, most chasers can't afford to be that reserved.

My point isn't really about chasers or republicans though. It's about labels in general.

[Wendy Summers]

That's a cop out.

Plus you have no proof that every chaser is a republican. Though I will say that republicans are some of the most backwards Hippocrates on earth, most chasers can't afford to be that reserved.

My point isn't really about chasers or republicans though. It's about labels in general.

Let's find out -- shall we?

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67290

[Erika1487]

Yea I was born in Ohio and you cant change even your name on your birth certificate. On your gay bar comment, gay bars tolerate it because it can generate money. But I know a few gay bars that will turn away people who dont look same on ID. Meaning if you still have male on your ID, or boy name, etc.

Michelle I am sorry you have had such a hard time changing you legal docs. As a former Republican official I was able to pull levers and have access too Dmv/Probate court/Dept Vital stats. In a 40 day strecth from Nov 5th to late Dec Legal name/Gender marker/Birth cert change. If you need help or need some specifc advice I would be glad to do what I can to help. As far as the T in LGBT I have not been around the gay community long enough to form an opinion one way or another.