Are you aware of Klinefelter's Syndrome? XXY Genetic Males

"... caused by a chromasomal abnormality in which males have an extra X chromosome ... constellation of symptoms ... tall stature, small testes (microorchidism), sparse facial and body hair, enlarged breast tissue (gynecomastia), and greatly reduced sperm count ... delays ... motor skills and language development ... indistinguishable from other boys until puberty ... Testosterone replacement treatment ... should begin around 11 years of age ... Fertility counseling ... in Denmark ... 71% of prenatally identified Klinefelter syndrome were aborted ... "

http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/klinefel.htm

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Originally Posted by Nicole Dupree

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Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC

tall stature, small testes (microorchidism), sparse facial and body hair, enlarged breast tissue (gynecomastia), and greatly reduced sperm count ... delays ... motor skills and language development ... indistinguishable from other boys until puberty

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I was told at Callen-Lorde there was evidence of me being "intersexed" prior to HRT, but unless I wanted further testing done it would not quite be official. My testo levels were WAY low and my estro levels were high when they were tested pre-HRT. But the above criteria all sounds ALOT like me. Even thin as a rail in my teens, I showed evidence of gynecomastia.

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I was tested by a family quack when I was 14 -blood test. He said it was ok-but I am sure they were not testing for this. I am not tall but did have most of these symmtoms. Not saying that I am XXY- but just makes ys think.

My intersexed lover was somewhat the opposite of Klinefelters (But was clearly aware of it). He was genetically male, but with a basic female form. No penis, per se, but no ovaries either (They were classified as 'ovatestes').

It was somewhat disturbing that, at age twenty-two, he looked a lot like a fifteen year old boy. That got a lot of disapproving stares when we were out on the town.

As I've said in previous posts and on other forums, gender is fluid, get used to it.

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Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC

in Denmark ... 71% of prenatally identified Klinefelter syndrome were aborted ... "

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That's horrible. I'm generally pro-choice but that's retarded. I've known guys and TS who were XXY, big deal. It's not like they're a vegetable in a wheelchair or will die within a month of being born. They're normal guys who shoot testosterone every couple weeks because their bodies don't make enough. Fucking Nazi eugenicists!

J. Michael Bailey, author of "The Man Who Would Be Queen" and the study a couple years ago claiming that bisexual males (men and TS) don't exist, has promoted the idea of inborn homosexuality (sometimes with a viral or bacterial component... o_O). He said it would be great to find a test for homosexual tendencies in fetuses and then parents could just choose to abort the ones who are likely to be gay. After all, who would want a gay kid?

When my little sister was pregnant, she was researching birth defects (yeah, that's smart...) and she came across information on various intersex disorders. She said it was fascinating. She didn't realize that people weren't just born in two clearly defined categories. Lots of things can happen to a baby before it's born and various chromosomal and/or genital disorders of different severities happen periodically. Maybe TS is one of them, as the so-called "Harry Benjamin Syndrome" supporters claim, maybe not. Most importantly we're all just people.

Abortion should remain an option for the 15yo girls who get pregnant because her boyfriend insisted that he could just pull-out, if you can't even financially make it through a pregnancy (followed by adoption), your health is bad and you won't survive one or there's a high chance your kid will be a vegetable (although there's been plenty of cases where they told the parents that and suggested abortion then the kid turned out just fine) or other abnormal situation. In China, they won't legally tell you the sex of your fetus because they know parents will opt to abort the female ones (and still do much of the time). Don't abort a child just because he might be IS, TS, HS or whatever. We're degraded in society enough.

BBC: Parents 'mislead over gene disorders' (2001-02-23)

I first heard about Klinefelter’s Syndrome when I did a college paper many years ago. It was in a book by the well known Dr. John Money and Anke Ehrhardt, called “Man, Woman, Boy and Girl”. I just reread some passages they had to say about the syndrome. One thing jumped out at me. It said that the test which discovered the syndrome was invented around 1959. This may seem like a long time to some, but that is a relatively short time in science. And consider that the book I used which discussed this was in 1972, only thirteen years later.

Considering the length of time some conditions have been known, I'm sure a lot more will be discovered about this and other cromosone based conditions.

XXY happens in about 1 out of 1,000 male births,
but many males will not devlop symptoms.


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...linefelter.jpg

Although their IQ is normal to borderline, most people with KS also have
problems with speech and language. They often learn to speak later than
other children do, and learning to read and write may be challenging.

Individuals with KS also have an increased risk of:

Diabetes
Breast cancer
Lung cancer
Cardiovascular disease
Lung disease
Osteoporosis

My lover was mildly autistic/ADD. Oh joy! :roll: Had he not been the unique person that he was, I would have run, screaming, from the room the first time we met.

Klinefelter syndrome is more common than people think; it is present in about 1:500 births.

The classical patient is tall and lanky with long arms/legs, has a smaller penis/testes and experiences delayed puberty and infertility or low fertility. They may also have some degree of breast development. At times, they may have some behavioral problems: learning problems or too much shyness or agression, but this is variable.

Generally, they identify as males. In many cases the syndrome may be mild and may not be discovered until a karyotype is done for a couple investigating infertility.

As an interesting note, certain scientists/historians have speculated that George Washington may have been affected by Klinefelter's. There is no proof of this, but he was unable to have a child with his wife and he was tall/lanky.


IMHO, a more interesting intersex condition is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (Testicular Feminization). These patients have defective testosterone receptors on cells, so testosterone has no effect on them. Therefore, 46 XY genetic males develop as females, with a vagina and breasts and fully feminine exterior features. (During development, a female body plan is the default without testosterone or Mullerian inhibiting substance (MIS))

They usually have very little body hair because their bodies do not respond to testosterone/androgens. Their breasts are usually above average size because their testes keep on pumping out testosterone with no feedback... this is converted to estrogen by the aromatase enzyme. Otherwise, they have undescended testicles (that are usually surgically removed after puberty because the risk of cancer is high). However, they lack ovaries and a uterus because their testes produce a substance (MIS) that inhibits their formation in utero.

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Originally Posted by Tobe

Klinefelter syndrome is more common than people think; it is present in about 1:500 births.

The classical patient is tall and lanky with long arms/legs, has a smaller penis/testes and experiences delayed puberty and infertility or low fertility. They may also have some degree of breast development. At times, they may have some behavioral problems: learning problems or too much shyness or agression, but this is variable.

Generally, they identify as males. In many cases the syndrome may be mild and may not be discovered until a karyotype is done for a couple investigating infertility.

As an interesting note, certain scientists/historians have speculated that George Washington may have been affected by Klinefelter's. There is no proof of this, but he was unable to have a child with his wife and he was tall/lanky.


IMHO, a more interesting intersex condition is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (Testicular Feminization). These patients have defective testosterone receptors on cells, so testosterone has no effect on them. Therefore, 46 XY genetic males develop as females, with a vagina and breasts and fully feminine exterior features. (During development, a female body plan is the default without testosterone or Mullerian inhibiting substance (MIS))

They usually have very little body hair because their bodies do not respond to testosterone/androgens. Their breasts are usually above average size because their testes keep on pumping out testosterone with no feedback... this is converted to estrogen by the aromatase enzyme. Otherwise, they have undescended testicles (that are usually surgically removed after puberty because the risk of cancer is high). However, they lack ovaries and a uterus because their testes produce a substance (MIS) that inhibits their formation in utero.

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This has been a completely fascinating read everyone. Thank you for sharing. I do feel sorry for the parents denying themselves the opportunity to raise a unique child. Science like any tool can be used for good and bad. I mean I read about the pseudoscience behind discrimination for males that were XYY. Doctors told their parents that their sons would be prone to violence and it wasn't until around the 70's I believe, that they found out it was all horseshit. Children pickup on your expectations of them. How do you grow to become a healthy adult when everybody tells you that you're the evilseed?

Parents have dreams for their children and when they see this is not going to happen some unfortunately panic. They're like I didn't get what I want. They forget they're supposed to raise an individual with the ability to achieve their own dreams not their parents. The older children get the more parents have to let go and realize your child is an individual not a mini-me.

My first cousin has Kleinfelter's. His parents were fed that BS about him becoming violent.

Judging from old photos it seems to run in my mother's side of the family. A number of men in old family pics seem to have those characteristics. A history of bachelor uncles going back decades. In fact my favorite great uncle probably had Kleinfelters. Had the look,never married,had many women on the side,but never put one through the goalposts if you know what I mean.


It's interesting someone mentioned George Washington. Mom came from one of those old Virginia families. Go to an elite Virginia college like Washington & Lee or Hampden Sydney. You'll a number of guys with those characteristics,re: tall,skinny,w/ wide asses and sparse facial hair.

There's also an accent my grandmother called "Old Virginian" that's common in these families. It's sounds like a speech impediment and probably would be considered one outside the region. My first cousin's is pronounced though.