Could Texit follow Brexit?

[Stavros]

Some of you may be aware that there is an independence movement in Texas and that the vote by the UK to leave the EU has boosted their campaign, even though in purely legal terms the late Justice Antonin Scala declared-
“The answer is clear,” Scalia wrote. “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
http://amarillo.com/news/texas-news/2016-06-27

I believe Scalia is wrong, as the Constitution can be changed either by Congress, or through a Constitutional Convention. What Scalia failed to admit is that if enough pressure was placed on Congress the mechanism for a Constitutional amendment giving states the right to secede could surely at the very least be formally debated and voted on.

The key is to put in place what may now be unthinkable but which after all with the UK and the EU was considered undesirable and unlikely to succeed...so imagine you have a President who declares that he would not only not stand in the way of any State that wished to secede, but actively support 'an open debate' on the issue through the first Constitutional Convention since the 1770s -the point is that once the ball is rolling, you may not be able to stop it. David Cameron called the referendum because he believed he would win it, but he lost, and it was lost without a serious debate of the real issues, as most people during the debate did not appear to even know what the EU does, let alone what the UK does in the EU. Would the same level of ignorance apply to Texit?

Consider
-why should Texas pay taxes to maintain roads in California?
-Texas can raise its own militias under the 2nd Amendment and does not need the US military.
-Texas already has the right to subdivide itself into five mini states.
-the state can support itself through oil and low corporate taxes.
-and who goes on holiday to Texas anyway?
-what has Texas given the US apart from 'queers and steers', environmental vandalism, John Wayne, war-crazy Presidents (not to mention Deely Plaza and one Dead President), the Alamo and a tv series called Dallas?

Is it time for a divorce?
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/explainer/article/secession-texit-brexit-independence-8323802.php

[trish]

I've got the perfect slogan, though I'm not sure it's for or against TEXIT: FORGET THE ALAMO!

[Jericho]

ALAMONO!
Though I'm not sure who that's in favor off! :shrug

[hippifried]

As much as it pains me to say this, Scalia was right. It's settled law, written into the Constitution from the outset. Article I, section 10, backed up by Article VI (2nd paragraph especially).

[Ben in LA]

Consider
-why should Texas pay taxes to maintain roads in California?
-Texas can raise its own militias under the 2nd Amendment and does not need the US military.
-Texas already has the right to subdivide itself into five mini states.
-the state can support itself through oil and low corporate taxes.
-and who goes on holiday to Texas anyway?
-what has Texas given the US apart from 'queers and steers', environmental vandalism, John Wayne, war-crazy Presidents (not to mention Deely Plaza and one Dead President), the Alamo and a tv series called Dallas?
Why should Califormia pay taxes to maintain roads in Texas? Oh yeah...the INTERSTATE.

ANY "Texas militia" would be crushed by the vastly superior United States Military.

Maybe they SHOULD split into five states. I'm sure the folks in Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso would prefer that.

And when that next storm hits Galveston, don't try to come running back to the US for help. Not for natural disasters or anything. Hopefully they think about all of the federal money they'll lose.

Seriously, these cats haven't thought this through thoroughly enough.

[Stavros]

As much as it pains me to say this, Scalia was right. It's settled law, written into the Constitution from the outset. Article I, section 10, backed up by Article VI (2nd paragraph especially).

Scalia was only right in the sense that the jurisprudence of the US as presently constituted confirms his position, but does not in fact make it impossible for a state to secede from the Union legally through either an Amendment to the Constitution or through a Constitutional Convention. It is because Scalia does not believe it would be possible or desirable politically to have either such a amendment or Convention, or because of the legal complexities involved that he stops short of admitting that the unthinkable could in fact happen. But, for the sake of argument, if Texas declared itself independent, the Constitution of the US would no longer apply in Texas, so to insist that it must would be to violate the independence of Texas.

Although a mischievous post, there is a deadly truth in my original post. It must be possible to amend the Constitution on any subject, and might be possible to hold a Constitutional Convention too, these are instruments that do exist. The point is that nobody has ever given secession traction, yet as I suggested, all you need is a maverick politician to start the ball rolling and you might end up with precisely that situation you thought was impossible. Texas, moreover, need not declare independence and invite the military wrath of the other states, it could persuasively argue that it wants the benefits of trade with the rest of the US but does no want to pay for or be encumbered by an irrelevant central or Federal government, in most other respects citizens of the US would be free to come and go in Texas on payment of taxes levied in the state and other such instruments and it could also shelter under a military umbrella in payment of a fee to the US military, just as the UK pays fees to NATO.

Many of the arguments made for Brexit thus apply to Texit, all you need is a crazy politician to become President who believes free markets and local power are more important than global markets and Federal government. If enough people in one place rebel against the centre and succeed in getting the issue on the table for serious debate, all you will then need is a democratic vote and lose a state from the Union, though you will also have gained a friend....

Here is a long but fascinating discussion of secession by a Conservative-
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-secession-legal/

[hippifried]

This isn't Europe. The US is not a confederation of independent, autonomous, sovereign nations. It's not a club or a subscription. States are jurisdictional entities within the nation. Statehood is not a treaty. The same rules apply to all of the states. Texas has no special treatment or privileges.

Okay, so we could just change the Constitution. Good luck to anyone who tries to make the argument that States should be allowed to secede so they can draw foreign aid. That's an old standing joke, used by local comedians as a platform in every gubernatorial election, to see how many write in votes they can get.

Nobody in their right mind wants another constitutional convention. Its scope can't be limited. The first one was called to fix the Articles of Confederation. Articles of what, you ask? Yeah... The original founding document (similar to the EU concept) that got shitcanned & replaced by the Constitution we recognize today.

Really Stavros... Brexit happened. Texit won't. Get over it.

[trish]

In other words: A Brit BREXITS, whereas a Texan just JERKSIT.

[buttslinger]

If the comic book God came down from comic book Heaven and killed all the Republicans, I guarantee you the White Branch of the Democratic Party would end up hating the Blacks and Mexicans as much as the Republicans do. Blood is thicker than water.
When it comes to cold hard cash I'm a Conservative, and when it comes to social issues I'm Liberal. The LAST thing I want is a Republican President in charge again.
It's hard to tell when Stavros is joking, because his posts read like a newspaper article. If every American knew how to read a newspaper, Donald Trump's name would be confined to the real estate section. Where it belongs. Social change happens from the bottom up, which means that the Playground Strongmen rule more than the Teacher's Pets. If your friends and family vote Republican, odds are you will vote Republican too. Facts be damned, Boo.
Blood is thicker than water.

[trish]

Social change starts on Madison Avenue. "I want to teach the world to sing - in perfect harmony..." It's all about expanding your market. Don't know why, but it seems like Trump is out to shrink his share to fit the size of his grubby little hands.

[buttslinger]

Trump's followers are white blue collar workers, who are losing jobs hand over fist to hard working Mexicans. In my mind, they have a pretty good point. BOTH sides, everybody's gotta eat.
Wall Streeters are the ultimate shadow economists, if you could show Republican voters that a third of their paycheck overtly goes to the IRS, and a third of their paycheck goes covertly to the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, then maybe we could get down to business of running a country. A country of imperfect people, each and every one. Love your neighbor.
Like so many political truths, the voters are the real problem, and the voters are not the problem.
I have a feeling Democratic Strategists are pulling their punches toward Trump til after the Convention, Donald Trump will walk away with a wallet and Rolodex fatter than when he started, but the Republican Party will be murdered. Maybe forever, I don't know. Trump will blame the Republicans for his defeat. It's his model for success from Day One, and it's working.
I agree that Wall Street and the ONE PERCENT are pricks, but they are also a big reason the USA out-competes the rest of the World. The World has winners and losers, and my main man Obama is going out a winner, flawlessly passing the baton to Hillary, ....who knows, maybe Republicans will even stop voting against their own best interests. Who's left to speak for them? The fact that Trump is the presumptive nominee speaks volumes. After this election, you might even see the Koch Brothers getting into bed with Hillary, business is where you find it.
BERNIE 24!!!!

Brexit is more troubling than our election over here, the night is dark and full of terrors.

[Stavros]

It's hard to tell when Stavros is joking, because his posts read like a newspaper article.

The only serious point I was making is that unless you nurture a democratic society and refresh the political class with people who put the country before their careers, and who do not make extreme demands of society and the economy, you can usually manage disputes without allowing them to spiral out of control. The polarisation that has taken place in Congress and the wider problems of adjusting to changes in capitalism can bring out 'now or never' advocates motivated by a belief that unless 'drastic measures' are taken immediately, all will be lost. Of course Texit is an absurdity but in practical terms it is not impossible because nothing in politics is impossible, and just as Cameron bet everything on a referendum he never needed to call, and lost, so Texit stands for something you don't want that a coalition of idiots could produce.
I don't think anyone in 1972 thought that when Nixon was re-elected he would create the most serious crisis in the US Presidency since the civil war, drag the reputation of the White House into the mud, and along with the end of the Vietnam War force the US to ask deep questions about its politics, its military and its intelligence services. The US was resilient and imaginative enough to get through, indeed, by showing how deep its commitment was to accountability, the US both grew out of Watergate and improved on it. But times change and I doubt anyone -including the man himself- expected Trump to get as far in the Presidential contest as he has. And that in itself is an indication that what you thought could never happen has in fact happened.

[trish]

As I understand it the vote on BREXIT is a recommendation leave the EU and although it may be politically impossible to refuse it is not legally binding. Here in the US we’re hearing a lot of stories about buyers regret. There are people claiming they only voted to leave as a protest - never dreaming the leaves would win.

If someone hoping to replace Cameron runs for Prime Minister promising they will not officially apply to leave the EU and if that person wins, it can be read as a mandate by the people reversing BREXIT. Am I right? To me it seems a more reasonable approach than petitioning for another vote to leave or stay, yet serves that function. Is there anyone running for Prime Minister making such a promise or is there anyone likely to?

[buttslinger]

As I understand it the rest of the EU wants the Brits to make the quick cut that heals fastest, and Scotland and N Ireland want to grab this window to get some Independence of their own. Between the lines, I heard that the leaders of the left and right over there are old SchoolMates, and there's a bit of sibling rivalry thing goin' on over there.
Between the lines, I have heard Joe Biden say that he doesn't HATE Republicans, the TELL is he brought this up in a conversation about Hillary Clinton. When the Republicans sicced Ken Starr on Hillary, it got them the White House. But Hillary is a vindictive Bitch, like Cercei Lannister. and when She gets on the Iron Throne, Republicans better hide. The History of American Presidents is not PG Rated.

Brexit is off the News Cycle here, now it's Turkey vs Isis, and that's a juicy story. I hope they're on the phone to Obama. This sounds like a good time to kick some ISIS ass. TOGETHER.

[Nightgoat77]

I moved to central Texas a year ago and I've learned three things.

1. It's ungodly hot. Before moving I thought, "oh it will just be a dry heat". Nope. Humid and hot, no cloud coverage, and barely any rain. It's the worst heat I've ever felt but hey, the other seasons are warm and doesn't get too cold.

2. Texans cannot drive for shit. On one rare day that it rained here I counted around 50 cars on the interstate and of the 50, only about half had their lights on. They don't understand how to use a turning lane. They slow waaaaay down, then turn into the turning lane, then make their turn when it's clear. It's not hard folks.

3. Where's all the TS women at? I'm searching and I found maybe one escort 300 miles away for 500$ an hour but I don't really want that. I want to meet and get to know them. Go out and have dinner and treat them like the ladies they deserve to be treated as. I guess living in this gigantic wasteland of heat, guns, and ridiculously large trucks, one must pay to satisfy their TS curiosity.

As for Texas suceeding. I have no opinion either way. The people here are awesome when they're not behind the wheel of a death machine but hopefully moving as soon as I can. Miss mountains and seasons and family.