Girls Without Their Own Pro Websites...

[Johnny.Blaze]

I posted this in another forum but I'm wanting to post it here because I'd like to get some feedback as to why many of the popular girls don't have their own pro websites. Sites that they can themselves make money off of. Instead of just relying solely on doing photo shoots for company's that pay them a low wage (As far as I can see)

I just think allot of these girls just get caught up in the hole glitz and glamor of it all. Many are only out of high school with never going back and getting more education for after the business. Many don't save money well. They simply live from pay check to pay check. And then what do they have when the calls stop coming for shoots. Or when it's time to retire from the business. We all know the clock ticks daily on that retirement bell.
And that is why I'm a strong believer that if you're a popular girl now a days. Get yourself a good fan base and start your own website business. Maybe you won't make millions but you're sure as shit going to make more than the 500 dollars or whatever it is that producers pay for a shoot. And that's weekly income for however long you do it. If you're committed to your craft, then you can become successful at it. Grooby, and Bob's Tgirls, Shemale Strokers are all high rollers, but you can still do good for yourself with just some good promotion, good design, and finally good content, updated weekly.
It might take a little time before the word spreads out but It can happen. Be your own entrepreneur, with occasional visits to the sites that helped to get you started in the business. That's my business model lol
And don't let people get you down by saying it's too hard, you won't make money after expenses, paying talent etc. That's all bullshit! I did it for ten years, and never once going broke because of it. It Did break up my relationship lol but It also supplied me a with a life of fun and adventure. And that I will never regret....

So tell me girls...If you have a website now, how are things going so far with it? And if you don't have a pro website yet, why do you choose not to have one?

[RallyCola]

there are parts of the business that you don't realize. first off, it isn't like these girls are earning 100% of the profit with no overhead. Out of your $30 membership, I believe the girls get 50% of the profit (at least with the SMC business model). The site owner gets the rest but obviously production costs, box costs and any other overhead associated with running the site come off first.

next is the issue of popularity of sites and the chance to successful rebills. let's ask the question this way....Johnny, how many solo sites are you a religious member of?

finally there is an issue with productivity and wanting to adhere to a regular schedule of updates. if i recall correctly, steven has said that under the grooby business model, girls are supposed to be empowered to be in charge of their site and grooby is there for support services and such. with that in mind, a girl has to be committed to filming new material at least biweekly. the reason large sites do well is fresh content AND varied content. Without the commitment to that from a solo model, the site won't grow.

remember there is 1 key to this and it has been stated over and over again. girls do not make a ton of money with porn. it isn't as lucrative as many may think. we have all heard it...that porn supplements their escorting dollars and helps them advertise. for those that escort, that money will trounce the porn income. for those that do not escort and hold down regular jobs, that money too should trounce porn income.

i guess the moral here is that even though in single bouts, shooting a scene pays more per hour than most jobs, it is still not a "growth industry" for individual models.

also, when last i checked, $500 a week is not much to speak of so for the work required to try to have a successful site, that's not really an incentive.

[Johnny.Blaze]

there are parts of the business that you don't realize. first off, it isn't like these girls are earning 100% of the profit with no overhead. Out of your $30 membership, I believe the girls get 50% of the profit (at least with the SMC business model). The site owner gets the rest but obviously production costs, box costs and any other overhead associated with running the site come off first.

next is the issue of popularity of sites and the chance to successful rebills. let's ask the question this way....Johnny, how many solo sites are you a religious member of?

finally there is an issue with productivity and wanting to adhere to a regular schedule of updates. if i recall correctly, steven has said that under the grooby business model, girls are supposed to be empowered to be in charge of their site and grooby is there for support services and such. with that in mind, a girl has to be committed to filming new material at least biweekly. the reason large sites do well is fresh content AND varied content. Without the commitment to that from a solo model, the site won't grow.

remember there is 1 key to this and it has been stated over and over again. girls do not make a ton of money with porn. it isn't as lucrative as many may think. we have all heard it...that porn supplements their escorting dollars and helps them advertise. for those that escort, that money will trounce the porn income. for those that do not escort and hold down regular jobs, that money too should trounce porn income.

i guess the moral here is that even though in single bouts, shooting a scene pays more per hour than most jobs, it is still not a "growth industry" for individual models.

also, when last i checked, $500 a week is not much to speak of so for the work required to try to have a successful site, that's not really an incentive.

Here is the thing. No offense to Grooby or any other site that has many girls in a circle of sites. You're not going to get good income that way. The large site will. I'm speaking about a girl doing her own thing. Answering to no one except herself. She's the star, and she's the boss.
Now here is a break down of overhead cost.
1. Outfits may have to be purchased, however many members love to buy outfits for their favorite model. It's a turn on for them. In exchange a model may give that customer a free month or free cam show.
2. Nice hotel rooms or your own bedroom etc isn't all that expensive. I can only imagine what the costs are for some of these studios when they rent out some rich ass houses, and plaster all sorts of dumb props around the place that I as the viewer don't give two shits about.
3. Having your membership taken care of by companies like CCBill hardly cost nothing. 10-15% of your gross weekly earnings. And for that, they handle all passwords, user accounts, blockage, security, all that. So thats really fare when you're first starting out.
4. A good camera. It doesn't have to be what Joel Silvera uses by no means. You can get dam good HD video from a 300 camera now a day.
And besides, even if a girl where to just do shoots in her own house for awhile until the money starts coming in, after that, she can then go the ugrade rout.

That's exactly what I did my man, and it works wonders for me. You probably won't believe me but I created a big butt niche before Bang Bros, and all the rest of them. I even did promotional work for them for awhile.
I'm not blind to how this business makes money and who get's most of it. But it's still a billion dollar industry. I am certain that I could find just 5 girls without pro sites. I could make them serious money. And make them more popular than they already are. I'm a go getter, and my home and phone is always open 24/7. And I'm certainly not trying to step on anyone toes. I have mad respect for Steven, Christian, Bob, Frank, all these guys. They are what I can only aspire to be someday. Because now that I'm living so close to Cali finally, I'm just itching to get back in the game and from behind the camera...

[amberskyi]

Simple answer?
It takes a TON of fucking money, time and effort. I applaud the girls who have that kind of drive but I would rather put those energies into education and a career.
Allot of girls sites are in the works for years before actually becoming available to the public.

[amberskyi]

Here is the thing. No offense to Grooby or any other site that has many girls in a circle of sites. You're not going to get good income that way. The large site will. I'm speaking about a girl doing her own thing. Answering to no one except herself. She's the star, and she's the boss.
Now here is a break down of overhead cost.
1. Outfits may have to be purchased, however many members love to buy outfits for their favorite model. It's a turn on for them. In exchange a model may give that customer a free month or free cam show.
2. Nice hotel rooms or your own bedroom etc isn't all that expensive. I can only imagine what the costs are for some of these studios when they rent out some rich ass houses, and plaster all sorts of dumb props around the place that I as the viewer don't give two shits about.
3. Having your membership taken care of by companies like CCBill hardly cost nothing. 10-15% of your gross weekly earnings. And for that, they handle all passwords, user accounts, blockage, security, all that. So thats really fare when you're first starting out.
4. A good camera. It doesn't have to be what Joel Silvera uses by no means. You can get dam good HD video from a 300 camera now a day.
And besides, even if a girl where to just do shoots in her own house for awhile until the money starts coming in, after that, she can then go the ugrade rout.

That's exactly what I did my man, and it works wonders for me. You probably won't believe me but I created a big butt niche before Bang Bros, and all the rest of them. I even did promotional work for them for awhile.
I'm not blind to how this business makes money and who get's most of it. But it's still a billion dollar industry. I am certain that I could find just 5 girls without pro sites. I could make them serious money. And make them more popular than they already are. I'm a go getter, and my home and phone is always open 24/7. And I'm certainly not trying to step on anyone toes. I have mad respect for Steven, Christian, Bob, Frank, all these guys. They are what I can only aspire to be someday. Because now that I'm living so close to Cali finally, I'm just itching to get back in the game and from behind the camera...

Oh hun if you think those are the only expenses involved lol...I wish Sasha Strokes still visited this forum because her site is completely indie.It also took her years and an insane amount of hard work to get it off the ground

[nysprod]

The real money in this business is in live performance aka escorting, which comes after an A list girl makes a name for herself in porn by shooting with the major producers in Ca.

Running your own website is a capital intensive and time consuming enterprise...shoot with the majors, throw some selfies out there on a tumblr or whatever, and tour the major cities.

[bluesoul]

That's exactly what I did my man, and it works wonders for me. You probably won't believe me but I created a big butt niche before Bang Bros, and all the rest of them. I even did promotional work for them for awhile.


can you show examples of your work and maybe a way to prove you did it? because, if you work in porn, then you know a big part of it is actually doing it rather than talking about doing it

[TSPornFan]

You must spend money in an effort to generate profits. It just is not worth it for most girls.

Some people do not join most solo sites because many sites have a very bad reputation or lost respect. Some sites do not update often to warrant a monthly subscription and others have bad quality content. Domino Presley's fans enjoyed her site when it first open but now they hate it. Read her forums. They do not want her amateur photos taken from a party as an update. They want quality porn.

The T-Girl Network, most of Grooby's solo sites, and Joanna Jet have the best solo sites in the T-Girl industry and maybe in all of porn.

[Ts RedVeX]

Personally, I can't be asked.

[RallyCola]

Here is the thing. No offense to Grooby or any other site that has many girls in a circle of sites. You're not going to get good income that way. The large site will. I'm speaking about a girl doing her own thing. Answering to no one except herself. She's the star, and she's the boss.
Now here is a break down of overhead cost.
1. Outfits may have to be purchased, however many members love to buy outfits for their favorite model. It's a turn on for them. In exchange a model may give that customer a free month or free cam show.
2. Nice hotel rooms or your own bedroom etc isn't all that expensive. I can only imagine what the costs are for some of these studios when they rent out some rich ass houses, and plaster all sorts of dumb props around the place that I as the viewer don't give two shits about.
3. Having your membership taken care of by companies like CCBill hardly cost nothing. 10-15% of your gross weekly earnings. And for that, they handle all passwords, user accounts, blockage, security, all that. So thats really fare when you're first starting out.
4. A good camera. It doesn't have to be what Joel Silvera uses by no means. You can get dam good HD video from a 300 camera now a day.
And besides, even if a girl where to just do shoots in her own house for awhile until the money starts coming in, after that, she can then go the ugrade rout.

That's exactly what I did my man, and it works wonders for me. You probably won't believe me but I created a big butt niche before Bang Bros, and all the rest of them. I even did promotional work for them for awhile.
I'm not blind to how this business makes money and who get's most of it. But it's still a billion dollar industry. I am certain that I could find just 5 girls without pro sites. I could make them serious money. And make them more popular than they already are. I'm a go getter, and my home and phone is always open 24/7. And I'm certainly not trying to step on anyone toes. I have mad respect for Steven, Christian, Bob, Frank, all these guys. They are what I can only aspire to be someday. Because now that I'm living so close to Cali finally, I'm just itching to get back in the game and from behind the camera...

regardless of what successes you may have had, there is much more overhead involved with owning and updating a site. the reason the grooby network and smc networks are so attractive to models is quite simple...it is turn key and the infrastructure is already in place. if you really think that it is that simple as you outlined above, why don't you start a consulting business and only skim 5% for yourself so these girls can reap a 95% profit and you can prove that your business acumen exceeds that of producers that have been doing this for a while.

i'm not trying to kill the dream but everything points to it being a tremendous financial, logistical and physically (as well as potentially emotionally) demanding thing to own and operate your own site. perhaps a site owner like a Joanna Jet or Wendy Williams is best to show you the error of your assumptions. We can only hope they post here.

[GroobySteven]

Johnny, you are way off on your assumptions.

I try to talk most models OUT OF doing their own solo sites (you can ask and they'll verify this) as there is so little money to be made unless you're really willing to put in a lot of time. See my blog at http://www.grooby.com/seanchai/ for a reality check.

We only take 20% of the income (AFTER banks and affiliates have been paid) which is a lot less than other companies and it's still hard for the girls to make good returns. There is another affect also, if a model is giving herself a lot of exposure on her own site, then it's less likely she's going to get as many shoots off the larger companies, than a girl with similar popularity ratings. This is because the feeling is, that any real fans of the model, will join her site and not the companies site, therefore, the set has less chance of making a return for the companies.

I think you'd be very surprised on the amount we make off each set of images. Remember across the company we're showing pretty much 200 sets a month - by the time we pay editors and other staff salaries, hosting, advertising (blah blah blah) we make very little per set, but it's a numbers game. A solo site isn't working on that much bigger margins (she can take the model fees out but she still has other costs and only showing 4-12 sets a month).

There are girls able to do it - but not everybody. I think girls should get more into producing their own scenes in styles/fetishes that they are into and then release the scenes by themselves (if they don't wish to do a solo site) ... watch this space.

[RallyCola]

well, there is always a clips4sale type endeavor!

[Johnny.Blaze]

There are girls able to do it - but not everybody. I think girls should get more into producing their own scenes in styles/fetishes that they are into and then release the scenes by themselves (if they don't wish to do a solo site) ... watch this space.

Steven, I think that's what I'm really trying to say here. For a girl to produce her own stuff and not be handcuffed to a company. Paying them X amount of dollars for each membership sale. And to the person that referenced Sasha Strokes website. No offense but her site is awful in regards to quality. I love her and all, but the quality of her videos are lacking tremendously.
So many of these girls that have websites are all associated together with sites like grooby, and shemale network ect. So does anyone really know how much a popular model would make on her own, so long as she does put the work in, or at least has help from people that arent going to take so much percentage for producing etc. That's what I'd really like to know.
What models actually do have their own site with no outside involvement?

[DeliaTS]

What models actually do have their own site with no outside involvement?

Me. 10+ years.

I have to agree with Steven in talking girls out of it. I don't have a lot of time to get into all the details (because I run my own site :-)) but it IS a lot of work and in the end the profit is not as big as some people seem to think. For me it is a labor of love. I enjoy it so I keep pumping out updates every week. But at times it is heart breaking and physically and emotionally draining.

[Johnny.Blaze]

Me. 10+ years.

I have to agree with Steven in talking girls out of it. I don't have a lot of time to get into all the details (because I run my own site :-)) but it IS a lot of work and in the end the profit is not as big as some people seem to think. For me it is a labor of love. I enjoy it so I keep pumping out updates every week. But at times it is heart breaking and physically and emotionally draining.


Oh yes Delia I know very much of your work. Been a member many times. In fact your site (Back when you first started) DeliaCD I believe it was back then. Was actually the very first site I ever signed up to too lol.
Take note gents...One of the best Cam models around Delia is!!!

[Rabbiteyes]

I'm curious if any solo girls try to go the patreon (if they allow porn) rout?

Yea, there are subscriptions... and patreon is similar (though you can break it up by payment by new shoot or video, instead of just per month).... but it seems patreon is more personal in connecting with fans.

I know other content creators use this pretty successfully (youtube channels , for example).

[TSPornFan]

well, there is always a clips4sale type endeavor!

How well do people do at Clips4Sale? I've never brought a scene from the site because prices are ridiculous. Why would I spend $29.95 for ONE scene when I can buy a full membership to a site at the same price for MORE content?

[Johnny.Blaze]

How well do people do at Clips4Sale? I've never brought a scene from the site because prices are ridiculous. Why would I spend $29.95 for ONE scene when I can buy a full membership to a site at the same price for MORE content?

I've never really seen anyone just do clipforsale. Usually they have a website and also a clipforsale account. Havent really seen any clips that cost 29.95. At least ones I would buy. They are usually 5 - 15 bucks. But I suppose if the girl is only doing clips and fans really like her, she could do ok. nothing to retire on though I imagine...

[DeliaTS]

Oh yes Delia I know very much of your work. Been a member many times. In fact your site (Back when you first started) DeliaCD I believe it was back then. Was actually the very first site I ever signed up to too lol.
Take note gents...One of the best Cam models around Delia is!!!

Cool! Thanks Johnny! I actually make a lot more on camming than I do on my site.


How well do people do at Clips4Sale? I've never brought a scene from the site because prices are ridiculous. Why would I spend $29.95 for ONE scene when I can buy a full membership to a site at the same price for MORE content?

Some people do really well on clips4sale. It caters more to specific fetishes. For example some one might be really into tgirls peeing through pantyhose. You're not going to find a whole site dedicated to that specific niche but you might be able to find a handful of clips to collect.

[GroobySteven]

Steven, I think that's what I'm really trying to say here. For a girl to produce her own stuff and not be handcuffed to a company. Paying them X amount of dollars for each membership sale. And to the person that referenced Sasha Strokes website. No offense but her site is awful in regards to quality. I love her and all, but the quality of her videos are lacking tremendously.
So many of these girls that have websites are all associated together with sites like grooby, and shemale network ect. So does anyone really know how much a popular model would make on her own, so long as she does put the work in, or at least has help from people that arent going to take so much percentage for producing etc. That's what I'd really like to know.
What models actually do have their own site with no outside involvement?

There is no generalization. I can't talk specifics as it's unfair to those models who work with us but some make <$500 a month and others around $3000 a month, this is for website sales only. You could add 20% onto that (our cut) if they were running it themselves but then you'd have to account on their billing company expenses (cheaper when we pool together) and other expenses like servers which we give them as part of our 20%.

[joannajet]

Hello TSPF,


The T-Girl Network, most of Grooby's solo sites, and Joanna Jet have the best solo sites in the T-Girl industry and maybe in all of porn.

Thank you for including me in your list. I put a lot of regular work into my web site and over the last 14 years, that has made for a lot of content ;-)

Kisses,

Joanna
xxx

[christianxxx]

doing it yourself requires a tremendous amount of dedication and work. its very close to a full time job.

1. you have to book scenes and get talent to either shoot for free or attempt to pay them less than their normal rate - so you get a ton of cancellations and get told no a lot. I have had days where I asked 46 girls to shoot content and got 46 no's. lol
2. you have to book a shooter and location which costs money and time and effort
3. you have to think of a scenario and/or buy props/wardrobe
4. after the scene you get the stills and video on a flash or external drive
5. you have to transfer the scene to your computer, then fix the photos
6. buy a video editor and learn how to edit video
7. don't forget paperwork, making sure its done and organized
8. take the completed scene and upload it to your website, clips store, etc.

second, you have to relentlessly promote your own stuff. Just having a site up and hoping people somehow come to it makes no sense. Affiliates have terrible ratios now bc of all the free porn.

third, clips 4 sale is a god send. you can sell the scenes individually to fans who want your stuff while still protecting the integrity of your overall site members.

fourth, you have to constantly pursue additional revenue streams for your content and keep constant vigil on whether some douche clowns try to upload your shit to the tube sites (who now actually buy content btw).

fifth, your stuff is never going to take off immediately, so you have to endure slow months that gradually get better. My first month of my site I spent 1843 dollars and made 170. the 10th month of my site, I spent 1270 dollars and made 2242 dollars. last month (May) of this year the 21st month of my site, I spent 1562 dollars and made 4059 dollars.

[GroobyKrissy]

There is no generalization. I can't talk specifics as it's unfair to those models who work with us but some make <$500 a month and others around $3000 a month, this is for website sales only. You could add 20% onto that (our cut) if they were running it themselves but then you'd have to account on their billing company expenses (cheaper when we pool together) and other expenses like servers which we give them as part of our 20%.

As a number cruncher, I've done the math and the Grooby Network is by far, the most inexpensive way of handling a "solo" site, including trying to do things on your own. The server speed / bandwidth and customer service support alone is worth the value to offset the 20% take. Of course, as a site owner, you would never know this unless you've actually tried to handle a site's backend by yourself... so there's the kicker.

Anyway, as to the rest... I think I've owned / operated my own site now for about 10 years. I won't discuss income numbers, but I will most assuredly agree with Delia... for me, it is a labor of love more than anything as well as an avenue to free up resources for other projects. It takes a tremendous amount of work to create content weekly. Not so much as far as hard capital goes, but time, dedication, drive, ambition... AND about 90% cold, dumb LUCK.

[GroobyKrissy]

doing it yourself requires a tremendous amount of dedication and work. its very close to a full time job.

1. you have to book scenes and get talent to either shoot for free or attempt to pay them less than their normal rate - so you get a ton of cancellations and get told no a lot. I have had days where I asked 46 girls to shoot content and got 46 no's. lol
2. you have to book a shooter and location which costs money and time and effort
3. you have to think of a scenario and/or buy props/wardrobe
4. after the scene you get the stills and video on a flash or external drive
5. you have to transfer the scene to your computer, then fix the photos
6. buy a video editor and learn how to edit video
7. don't forget paperwork, making sure its done and organized
8. take the completed scene and upload it to your website, clips store, etc.

second, you have to relentlessly promote your own stuff. Just having a site up and hoping people somehow come to it makes no sense. Affiliates have terrible ratios now bc of all the free porn.

third, clips 4 sale is a god send. you can sell the scenes individually to fans who want your stuff while still protecting the integrity of your overall site members.

fourth, you have to constantly pursue additional revenue streams for your content and keep constant vigil on whether some douche clowns try to upload your shit to the tube sites (who now actually buy content btw).

fifth, your stuff is never going to take off immediately, so you have to endure slow months that gradually get better. My first month of my site I spent 1843 dollars and made 170. the 10th month of my site, I spent 1270 dollars and made 2242 dollars. last month (May) of this year the 21st month of my site, I spent 1562 dollars and made 4059 dollars.

Sunofabitch :).

Congratulations on the successful site :). One of the hardest (no pun intended) working guys in porn. Of course, then again, I only know one guy working in porn.

And, thank you for the little PR bumps you do on my site. I see it... and appreciate it, especially considering we've never worked together. Thank you.