My Little Pony and a young Flammer

[mildcigar_2001]

Recently saw this article relating how a young boy brought a "My Little Pony" backpack to school with entirely predictable results:

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/03/17/3414231/school-bans-boy-from-wearing-my-little-pony-backpack-claims-its-a-trigger-for-bullying/

Granted the kid shouldn't be bullied, but more than the other kids, I blame the kid's Mom for letting him go to school like this (in a way it reminded me of a movie from a few years ago "About a Boy").

I was wondering from the boards TS members if they were smart enough to avoid this bullying and stay on the down low. I say smart enough because even at the age of nine I would have known better than to bring "My Little Pony" paraphernalia to school. Not that I was a fan, but even at nine you could understand what was going to happen if you ventured too far out on the gender frontier.

That being said I guess some kids are clueless, I remember a kid who wore suits to junior high every day and carried his pocket watch collection around in his briefcase (I think the pocket watches were welded together for him in shop class by someone who was not a fan). Other kids are real SOBs at times, but some kids appear to ask for trouble (as unfair as it may be).

[trish]

Sorry the link didn't work for me. But here are a few thoughts->

Yeah it’s the victim’s mother’s fault. WTF! No. It’s the fault of the bullies and their lax upbringing. We should have armed guards in schools so they can shoot asshole jerks who pick on other kids.

Okay, that's the over reaction of someone who's been bullied. But seriously. You should not raise a child to be ashamed of who they are and teach them to hide the proclivities that are characteristic of their fundamental identities. It’s not as if schools can’t be nurturing and that children can’t be taught to be understanding of their peers even when they're are different.

When I was growing up in white, rural Pennsylvania as an African-Korean American, geeky girl in a boy’s body, I defiantly dressed the part. Perhaps I was inspired by a Rocky and Bullwinkle DVD my Aunt gave me. In every show Mr. Wizard intoned in his heavy German accent,

“Tooter, Tooter. Always I tell you. Be just what you is, not what you is not. Folks that do this is the happiest lot.”

Yes, I had to contend with bullies. I got a few bruises and black eyes. But I also had family, friends, teachers and counselors who understood me. I knew who I was and I was determined in public to be just that.

Bullying is an attempt to gain social acceptance at the expense of another. Kids who bully do it out of a need to win the approval of their peers. If you can’t make friends with the bully, try engaging his peers.

Tooter Turtle_Fired Fireman (Tartaruga Biruta) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMN7d3wLDxo)

[Chaos]

Really? His mom's fault? All she did was let him have something he likes.....End of the world shit right there....
No,it's the asshole bullies and their asshole parents that are to blame.
These shitheads need to realize that making fun of people different than you is futile....EVERYONE is different. But since it's something out of the ordinary,this school decides to help the bullies by telling this kid what he can/can't bring to school...
GUARANTEED if it was say, a kid getting bullied for wearing a football backpack One,they wouldn't be telling him to leave it at home. Two,anyone that bullied him would be punished..... but NO...They take the easy way out and punish the kid being bullied....Worst part is this kid is going to get it a lot worse now that this story made the news.....

[Tapatio]

Let's back up and appreciate the irony of OPs post.

[mildcigar_2001]

Perhaps at such a young age kids should not be so flamboyant.

To put it bluntly the kid's self preservation skills (and his mother's nurturing skills) are very poor. Sadly enough evidence of Darwinism in action. If you are stupid enough to paint a target on your back don't be surprised when people shoot arrows at you.

It may be unfair, but life often is. This whole episode seemed like a good occasion for the Mom to have a talk about public and private and what is appropriate and what is not. Most of the time you shouldn't be waving red flags at the bull.

To put this in a more adult example, perhaps Fred Phelps and his ilk should not be surprised if they demonstrate at a military funeral or in S.F. and then get roughed up a bit, tires slashed, etc. (the price of admission for some things).

While it is politically correct to say the kid shouldn't be bullied, a school administrator can't follow the kid around till he graduates high school.

[thombergeron]

You're an idiot. A nine-year-old liking a toy is flamboyant?

When I was a pre-adolescent, I got beat up and called a faggot because I was skinny and wore glasses. Why don't you go ahead and tell me I was asking for it for growing quickly and having bad eyesight?

Cretin. I hope to god your line dies out with you.

[AshlynCreamher]

I was raised in a household where the word "faggot" was used regularly by my stepfather who had zero tolerance for little sissy boi's. I still don't know if he thought he was trying to help me or just enjoyed breaking my spirit. some of my earliest childhood memories were of me and my two sisters play; house, barbie, even dress up - it was fun!

needless to say that when you prance into the living room wearing a dress and holding your sisters hand at the same time - I learned the hard way that you will get your little fanny whipped and be grounded to your room forced to be naked the who time waiting for mom to come home. in my mind, I can still hear her laughing in the living room when my step dad told he why I was being punished.

so you learn early on in life what is and what isn't acceptable and how to hide your girly stash so that no one finds them. and how to hide your emotions, secrets and desires.

I truly hope society will one day wake up. odds are people will keep acting like Nazi's and trans people will keep becoming drug addicts to numb there emotions and conform to society.

it's fucked up, I know!

[mildcigar_2001]

You're an idiot. A nine-year-old liking a toy is flamboyant?

When I was a pre-adolescent, I got beat up and called a faggot because I was skinny and wore glasses. Why don't you go ahead and tell me I was asking for it for growing quickly and having bad eyesight?

Cretin. I hope to god your line dies out with you.

Sorry you got beat up and called a faggot as a kid, but I had nothing to do with that. Just imagine what would have happened to you if were prancing about with My Little Pony toys in tow.

Your heartbreaking childhood aside, my point was that this Mother and son were merely setting themselves up for even more problems. There are times and places for making stands, but 4th grade probably is not one of them.

I thought I made clear in the original post that the bullying was unfortunate but entirely predictable, and both Mother and offspring should have known better.

[AshlynCreamher]

I was sharing my experience!

Here's an Idea how about I just keep my fucking mouth shut, will that work for you???

[trish]

Only in the wrong social climate will bullying predictable happen. Fourth graders are only as mean and shallow as their influences. Regardless of your age or your circumstances, standing up for who you are is the only healthy choice available. The only choice that leads to self-respect.

[trish]

Indeed, early on we are discouraged from disclosing our true natures to an uncomprehending world of bigotry. I would have thought HA was a place where at least we can find some support. But no. Here we still put up with chronic masturbators telling us that we should’ve known better than to be so flamboyant when we were nine. Our mother’s should’ve have told us.

You can fucking well leave my mother out of it, asswipe.

Seems to me that mildcigar as painted a flaming red target on his back. This whole episode seems like a good occassion for the Mods to talk to him about public and private and what is appropriate in this forum and what is not. That's just Darwinism in action.

Thank you Chaos, Tapatio, thombergeron and ashlyn for your contributions.

[mildcigar_2001]

I was sharing my experience!

Here's an Idea how about I just keep my fucking mouth shut, will that work for you???

Who is real and who is the sock-puppet? Ashlyn or Thombergeron?

[thombergeron]

Sorry you got beat up and called a faggot as a kid, but I had nothing to do with that. Just imagine what would have happened to you if were prancing about with My Little Pony toys in tow.

Your heartbreaking childhood aside, my point was that this Mother and son were merely setting themselves up for even more problems. There are times and places for making stands, but 4th grade probably is not one of them.

I thought I made clear in the original post that the bullying was unfortunate but entirely predictable, and both Mother and offspring should have known better.

You're pretty fucking thick, aren't you? On the contrary, you have everything to do with kids getting bullied. You are quite clearly the problem.

Kids get bullied for liking a certain toy, or being skinny, or being fat, or having a speech impediment, or coming from the wrong family because assholes like you excuse the bullying by blaming the victims. Bullying is not "unfortunate" nor "predictable." For those of us who are not sociopaths, it's entirely unacceptable.

The fact that you went out of your way to post this story on a forum for transgressive people, and then blame the victim of the bullying, is a pretty clear indication that you get your jollies by making people uncomfortable.

The fact that you keep coming back here to insist that the victim and his mother are really the ones at fault makes you a total, unrepentant asshole.

I really hope you don't reproduce. You would make an awful parent, and the world really needs fewer people like you.

[thombergeron]

I was raised in a household where the word "faggot" was used regularly by my stepfather who had zero tolerance for little sissy boi's. I still don't know if he thought he was trying to help me or just enjoyed breaking my spirit. some of my earliest childhood memories were of me and my two sisters play; house, barbie, even dress up - it was fun!

needless to say that when you prance into the living room wearing a dress and holding your sisters hand at the same time - I learned the hard way that you will get your little fanny whipped and be grounded to your room forced to be naked the who time waiting for mom to come home. in my mind, I can still hear her laughing in the living room when my step dad told he why I was being punished.

so you learn early on in life what is and what isn't acceptable and how to hide your girly stash so that no one finds them. and how to hide your emotions, secrets and desires.

I truly hope society will one day wake up. odds are people will keep acting like Nazi's and trans people will keep becoming drug addicts to numb there emotions and conform to society.

it's fucked up, I know!

That's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you take some comfort in the knowledge that your stepfather was a very unhappy person and clearly wasted his precious time on earth.

Whereas you are thriving.

[bluesoul]

Fourth graders are only as mean and shallow as their influences.

i have to say i completely disagree with this. personally i wouldn't speculate that every kid who was bullying grayson bruce was from a shallow and mean household but rather a lord of the flies group influence. humans by nature are feral. just look on this forum and you'd be hard-pressed to find a thread where people can't accept another's opinion if it's different (in fact, this very thread does just that)

so if we can't even accept one anothers differing opinions/styles etc. what makes you think these kids will? did we also come from mean and shallow influences?

as to what this kid can do. no idea. perhaps if he can explain to his tormentors why he likes my little pony in a way where they can identify with him then it's more likely they'd consider his feelings next time. but i'm no expert on child care or teaching so perhaps i'm coming from a naive place. the only thing i know is that telling them to stop bullying (or banning words like bossy) won't work. at least, it wouldn't have when i was in school

btw: glenn beck stands in solidarity with this kid (http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/03/17/standwithgrayson-glenn-stands-in-solidarity-with-a-9-year-old-nc-student/), yet he's the type i'd honestly have considered as coming from "mean and shallow" influences

[trish]

humans by nature are feral.I don't even know what you could mean by this. Typically humans do not grow up feral. They're raised by parents and usually within a community. We are social animals. The children in Lord of the Flies are just as mean as Golding could imagine children can be. They are a testament to a writer's imagination, but they are not evidence of human nature.


if we can't even accept one anothers differing opinions/styles etc. what makes you think these kids will?This plays directly into my claim. Children can do no better than their influences. But if we do better, provide better examples and guide them responsibly, they will do better as well.

But even if we can't eliminate bullying altogether, we can't tell children to hide their identities, to be ashamed of who they are, to slink away and conform on the outside, to be untrue to their fundamental natures and die on the inside.

[mildcigar_2001]

But even if we can't eliminate bullying altogether, we can't tell children to hide their identities, to be ashamed of who they are, to slink away and conform on the outside, to be untrue to their fundamental natures and die on the inside.


It is just interesting to note who tried to bully whom on this thread and who resorted to name calling because they were uncomfortable with other's opinions.

I guess bullying is okay if you are a member of a certain group.

[AdamCaligne]

All I do is lurk, so that's why I have no posts.

The focus on bullying prevention is starting to switch towards aiding the victims instead of constantly punishing the perpetrators. By that I mean instead of punishing ten different kids who are all picking on the same kid for the same reason, they are trying to assist the one kid to either understand why he or she has been targeted or with developing various social skills that can overcome the issue. Please read on before you jump to conclusions.

On a school campus, at absolute best there is a 10:1 adult to child ratio (at absolute BEST). It is impossible to monitor behavior and conversations on every inch of the playground, cafeteria, hallways, RESTROOMS, etc. Even if you're an adult standing right next to the kids, you may not realize that one kid is silently mouthing the words "I'm going to beat you up" to another kid.

The shift in focus on the victims has largely been essentially teaching kids to ignore bullying behavior. Usually if they don't get a response they lose interest. Now if someone is shoving you around or physically assaulting you, that's a different story. But if it is mostly verbal or mental bullying and intimidation (which, as someone who has worked in public education at many levels for a long time, I can assure you it mostly is), it can go a long way if you aim to teach the victims to find ways to get through it.

A good example I have is this 5th grade kid I worked with in an elementary school a couple years ago. He was really quick tempered and all the students knew how to push his buttons. He was also tiny. The administration tried and tried a lot of different things with this class (mostly punishing half the class in various ways) but this kid was always getting into it with someone (girls, boys, much younger kids, etc.), but at the same time he and his parents were always claiming bullying, bullying, bullying. One day in the cafeteria a kid walked by him and asked him if a blind guy had given him a haircut. He completely lost his mind and a minor food fight erupted. Anyway, after this the administration finally got this kid set up to go hang out with the nearby high school football team everyday after school while they practiced. The team took him under their wing, blah, blah, blah, etc. Anyway he became a new person. It was pretty amazing. I talked with him a few months later and he said there was a single thing that changed how he reacted to things. He was telling one of the football players about the haircut incident and the football player said something along the lines of "you should have just said 'of course a blind guy gave me a haircut, is there any other way to get it cut?' ". Something like that. In other words: regardless of the intent, take it as a joke and move on. Interacting with the football team, and learning to not take himself so seriously quite possibly turned this kid's life around. Why wasn't this sappy story in the news somewhere? Because stuff like that happens all the time. It just doesn't make the news because it's not as exciting as some nonsensical thing about a backpack. More than anything though, this kid just stopped reacting to EVERY SINGLE THING. He just ignored it, and the kids stopped bugging him. He eventually got some friends, too.

The point is, there's always going to be someone telling you that you suck at something, whether you're Lebron James or a kid wearing the "wrong" backpack. Based on my experience working in schools I can guarantee you two things: 1) Regardless of how you feel about how the school handled this issue, I'm sure this was a last, last, last resort because this has been an ongoing issue that they are tired of dealing with--not a knee jerk reaction from school administration, 2) The media always gets school stories wrong. ALWAYS.

And how on earth, you ask, is it aiding the victim if you're taking away one aspect of his freedom of expression? Because sometimes you just need to make a decision for a 9-year-old child if he (or his guardians) is unwilling to figure out how to deal with it himself.

[trish]

And how on earth, you ask, is it aiding the victim if you're taking away one aspect of his freedom of expression? Indeed. How?

Because sometimes you just need to make a decision for a 9-year-old child if he (or his guardians) is unwilling to figure out how to deal with it himself.This doesn't answer the question. It simply sidesteps it.

[AdamCaligne]

Thanks for reading my post.

[bluesoul]

I don't even know what you could mean by this. Typically humans do not grow up feral.

lol. no. humans, by nature are feral. how they grow up depends on how they're raised.



But even if we can't eliminate bullying altogether, we can't tell children to hide their identities, to be ashamed of who they are, to slink away and conform on the outside, to be untrue to their fundamental natures and die on the inside.

well, what about the bullies then? aren't we telling them to conform by accepting their victims? aren't well telling those who are naturally more aggressive and boisterous to curb their identity and to be untrue to their fundamental nature?

and i have to disagree with you on your literal assessment of lord of the flies although i'm unsure of how to expound on it as you seem to have taken the surface value of the text alone

[SpoogeMonkey]

That's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you take some comfort in the knowledge that your stepfather was a very unhappy person and clearly wasted his precious time on earth.

Whereas you are thriving.

At last, someone on here who isn't a fuckwit.

All the problems of the earth are shaped in our childhood. All the hangups. fuckwittery, learning difficulties, etc are formed in those early years. You want to play with a pink shiny toy and you are a boy, some cunt stops you because somewhere they have decided its "gender specific". Kids should just be able to grab stuff and play with it. You make a toy taboo for a boy or girl you cause all sorts of frustrations and issues later in life. Lines are drawn and rules are created. Wear a pink shirt to work and people call you a poof. Wear a pair of trousers men call women a dyke. "oh its just a bit of fun" - NO IT ISNT, it has far reaching implications throughout our society and somewhere we have likely all contributed to it. Look at football (soccer), how many teams have a pink strip? hardly any because men wont buy it because if they do then people will call them queer, and because thats a massive issue for most men because they "wouldnt want to be known as soft or faggoty". as if being gay makes you weak or something else retarded. Thats why theres virtually zero out gay players because people fear the shit cunts like some on here would give them.

Wouldnt it be nice to see boys getting barbies for xmas. Just by saying that I know you are reading this and laughing.. I can hear it. If you are then you are a cunt, a stunted retarded cunt of a being.

cunts..

[trish]

humans, by nature are feral. No. They aren't. Their genetic makeup instructs them to raise their offspring in social groups. Their children are born neotenous and are genetically wired to be raised.


well, what about the bullies then? aren't we telling them to conform by accepting their victims? aren't well telling those who are naturally more aggressive and boisterous to curb their identity and to be untrue to their fundamental nature?No. This merely conflates aggressive and boisterous behavior with bullying. The former might be part of a person's fundamental nature. The latter is not.

But let's say, you're right. Still one wants to ask, "Why side with the bully and not the target of their harassment?"

[bluesoul]

He just ignored it, and the kids stopped bugging him. He eventually got some friends, too.

The point is, there's always going to be someone telling you that you suck at something, whether you're Lebron James or a kid wearing the "wrong" backpack. Based on my experience working in schools I can guarantee you two things: 1) Regardless of how you feel about how the school handled this issue, I'm sure this was a last, last, last resort because this has been an ongoing issue that they are tired of dealing with--not a knee jerk reaction from school administration, 2) The media always gets school stories wrong. ALWAYS.

completely agree with you on this subject. another thing is that, if a kid learns how do to deal with these kinds of attacks, they learn one of the most invaluable lessons in the world: making a negative thing positive.

when kids learn to deal with bullies in the way you explained in your example- i see it more likely that their attackers will respect them rather than being forced to accept them by an authority (like teachers or institutions) where they can still harbor malice.

the problem today is that many people want quick solutions so everyone is quick to "discipline the bully" or "ban the bad words" or "blame their parents".

[bluesoul]

No. They aren't. Their genetic makeup instructs them to raise their offspring in social groups. Their children are born neotenous and are genetically wired to be raised.

wrong. children are born feral.


But let's say, you're right. Still one wants to ask, "Why side with the bully and not the target of their harassment?"

because i don't think disciplining the bully/bullies is the way to stop the harassment. in fact, i think bullying is more natural than unnatural.

[Donkey]

Here's Jamie French's take on it:

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=83194

[trish]

Wrong. children are born feral.You disagree that humans are hardwired to raise their children? You dispute that children are hardwired to learn from their social setting? The definition of a feral animal is one that is domesticated but born in the wild or has been returned to the wild. Humans are not generally born feral. Look it up.


because i don't think disciplining the bully/bullies is the way to stop the harassment. in fact, i think bullying is more natural than unnatural. I agree, "disciplining" bullies won't help. But that's no reason to side with the bully against their prey. Bullies act to gain the approval of their peers at the expense of another. If you take the time to understand the source of this need for approval one might be able in particular cases interrupt their cycle of behavior.

[thombergeron]

wrong. children are born feral.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Nothing is born "feral," nor is anything born "domesticated."

If you had been born and left alone in the woods, you would become feral, if you didn't die. But being feral would not make you a bully; it would simply make you unsocialized or undomesticated.

Bullying is a social phenomenon. There are no "natural" bullies. Bullies are made. That's why the overwhelming majority of those exhibiting bullying behavior have themselves been bullied. They learn bullying as a coping mechanism.

And then, when shitheels like mildcigar_2001 tell bullying victims that they shouldn't act so flitty if they don't want to get beat up, the bullies see that their behavior is socially acceptable. Indeed, mildcigar_2001 is telling them that they're right, that they should beat up flitty kids. Flitty kids deserve to get beat up.

So they've been victimized themselves and they've been told that victimizing others is completely acceptable and justified. That's how we make bullies.

Thus, current evidence-based anti-bullying interventions target all children, emphasizing that bullying behavior is unacceptable, full stop. So victims feel empowered to say, This is unacceptable. And bullies themselves do not have their antisocial behavior validated.


It is just interesting to note who tried to bully whom on this thread and who resorted to name calling because they were uncomfortable with other's opinions.


Awwww, you feel bullied because I pointed out your despicable and antisocial attitude? Fuck you, asshole.

[runningdownthatdream]

I hate bullies and have got myself into trouble more than once taking on bullies. I became so aggressive that at times I think i too became a bully......but I digress.

I get the point the OP is making: don't taunt the rabid dog if you don't have to or at the very least taunt it when you have might on your side. Sometimes being in the right makes no difference and I think that parent unnecessarily put her kid at risk. I feel bad for the kid.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Bluesoul but bullies do have a purpose in society but having said that some of us also have the counter-purpose which is to slap them down.

[trish]

Children are not rabid dogs, not even children who bully. They often have difficulty learning to socialize with their peers, and sometimes need adult help. This is especially so for bullies.

I do agree that bullying has a purpose. It is used by the practitioner to gain peer approval. But it is a purpose that serves only the practitioner while victimizing his target and degrading those who laugh and lend their approval.

[runningdownthatdream]

Children are not rabid dogs, not even children who bully. They often have difficulty learning to socialize with their peers, and sometimes need adult help. This is especially so for bullies.

I do agree that bullying has a purpose. It is used by the practitioner to gain peer approval. But it is a purpose that serves only the practitioner while victimizing his target and degrading those who laugh and lend their approval.

I think the bully often is simply reinforcing the society's mores/morals. Obviously when you're on the wrong side of a beatdown (physical or emotional) you don't bother to notice these things. Believe me, when I was bullied for a) having better grades than my peers and b) for being an immigrant and c) for being non-white I soon came to realize that the people doing the bullying weren't acting out on their own. They were simply acting out their parents, teachers, and the other racist garbage that used to rule Toronto. So that grade 4 kid bullying the other kid is just acting out what's he/she has learned either at home or in the broader society around.

[bluesoul]

You disagree that humans are hardwired to raise their children? You dispute that children are hardwired to learn from their social setting? The definition of a feral animal is one that is domesticated but born in the wild or has been returned to the wild. Humans are not generally born feral. Look it up.

wrong. the problem is that you're introducing too many variables into your argument. most animals, feral or domesticated, are hardwired to raise their children. for example do lionesses abandon their young immediately after birth? do monkeys? aren't their offspring hardwired to learn from their social settings? eg. lion cubs imitating their mothers during a hunt?




I agree, "disciplining" bullies won't help. But that's no reason to side with the bully against their prey. Bullies act to gain the approval of their peers at the expense of another.

i wasn’t siding with them. i was acknowledging their response as i see it as a natural and primitive one.

also when you say bullies act to gain approval of their peers, it sounds like you're saying they don't have friends and do it to make friends. i've found most people who bully, do so when they're already in groups, and thus, with peers.
but i do agree it can be done to gain approval as well.


I don't think that word means what you think it means. Nothing is born "feral," nor is anything born "domesticated."

i disagree with you too


Fuck you, asshole.

in a thread about bullying, don't you think you really could've not resorted to insulting someone just because you disagree with them?

[Jamie French]

The only thing the mother failed to do was put a gun in the kid's back pack. Hate ponies? Bullet to the head. Who needs ya?

[trish]

wrong. the problem is that you're introducing too many variables into your argument. most animals, feral or domesticated, are hardwired to raise their children. for example do lionesses abandon their young immediately after birth? do monkeys? aren't their offspring hardwired to learn from their social settings? eg. lion cubs imitating their mothers during a hunt? Yes. And do lion cubs bully other lion cubs and call them names? Of course not. Bullying is neither natural nor primitive. It is a learned social behavior. And that behavior can be modified.


i wasn’t siding with them. i was acknowledging their response as i see it as a natural and primitive one. See above.


also when you say bullies act to gain approval of their peers, it sounds like you're saying they don't have friends and do it to make friends. i've found most people who bully, do so when they're already in groups, and thus, with peers.
but i do agree it can be done to gain approval as well. Never said bullies don't have friends; only that they are desperate to win and keep the approval of their friends. They harass others because to divert attention from what they are afraid others will perceive as their own inadequacies. This is not a natural or primitive state. It is certainly not a feral state as the term is understood by lexicographers. It is an abnormal state full of anxiety and self-doubt that is redirected toward their targets. The focus of the institution (in this case the school) should be on helping the bully (not punishing the victim) because the bully is the one in need.

[trish]

The only thing the mother failed to do was put a gun in the kid's back pack. Hate ponies? Bullet to the head. Who needs ya?Pretty close to my initial reaction. Great picture btw. I like the pink pony.

[mildcigar_2001]

Pretty close to my initial reaction. Great picture btw. I like the pink pony.

So the "George Zimmerman" approach is okay as long as you are a sissy and people are making fun of you. Interesting.

[trish]

Read my very first post in this thread. I gave my initial reaction, and then my serious reaction. Please don't conflate the two.

[thombergeron]

So the "George Zimmerman" approach is okay as long as you are a sissy and people are making fun of you. Interesting.

So, in the course of the last 24 hours or so, you, presumably an adult, have referred to a nine-year-old child as a "flammer" [sic], "clueless," "flamboyant," and "stupid." (The last is deliciously ironic, since most 4th graders know how to spell.)

Not content to leave it at that, you chime in yet again to call this child a "sissy."

And what did this child do to deserve such derision from a grown-ass man? He likes a particular toy that this grown-ass man thinks is silly.


in a thread about bullying, don't you think you really could've not resorted to insulting someone just because you disagree with them?

It appears that you have an incomplete understanding of bullying, as well. I don't "just" disagree with this person. mildcigar_2001 is encouraging the ongoing victimization of children. In a civilized society, that is unacceptable. I will make no apologies at all for condemning unacceptable, antisocial behavior from grown-us who should know better.

It's just rich when bigots and bullies are called out for their disgusting behavior, and then they play the victim card themselves. I guess you buy the bogus argument that banning discrimination violates the "religious freedom" of bigots.

[Jamie French]

Hey bucko, in America you can go around carrying whatever friggin' toy your friendly neighborhood Walmart sells ya without the expectation of gettin' hassled over it. You hassle, you pay. Toys don't come with bully safety warnings because picking on someone over a worthless piece of plastic that just happens to be molded into a shape that queers your boner is an offense worthy of jail time. It's the American way. Pick on a kid, maybe you get to eat a bullet that day. Play the odds and find out if you get to star in tomorrow's headlines.





So the "George Zimmerman" approach is okay as long as you are a sissy and people are making fun of you. Interesting.

[Odelay]

When you think about it, this argument is very similar to the one where women who dress seductively are just begging to be raped. Those women should have known better, and what the hell were their parents thinking?

[mildcigar_2001]

Pretty close to my initial reaction. Great picture btw. I like the pink pony.


When you think about it, this argument is very similar to the one where women who dress seductively are just begging to be raped. Those women should have known better, and what the hell were their parents thinking?

My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

[Merkurie]

My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

By that logic none of these ladies here would have dared to step out the front door.

[trish]

My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable. You've already made yourself clear. No need to repeat it. Just to be sure, let me make sure I've got it. It's the victim's fault. In your eyes, he's a stupid dumbass. You would have been way smarter. Oh, and his mother is irresponsible. The bully, on the other hand, was just doing what some kids predictably do. Your remedy: suppress the victim's freedom of self-expression. Wouldn't want to suppress the antisocial proclivities of the perpetrator though. That would be anti-Darwinian. That about covers it, right?

[mildcigar_2001]

You've already made yourself clear. No need to repeat it. Just to be sure, let me make sure I've got it. It's the victim's fault. In your eyes, he's a stupid dumbass. You would have been way smarter. Oh, and his mother is irresponsible. The bully, on the other hand, was just doing what some kids predictably do. Your remedy: suppress the victim's freedom of self-expression. Wouldn't want to suppress the antisocial proclivities of the perpetrator though. That would be anti-Darwinian. That about covers it, right?

First of all, if the victim behaves in a stupid manner, then part of the consequences are the victim's fault. Life is hard, and it is a lot harder when you are stupid.

Secondly, I don't claim any special intelligence as a child, I think most kids by the age of 8 or 9 know very well what is appropriate and what is not appropriate to bring to school. As I stated in my earlier post, I think this kid is missing positive male role models in his life, and his Mom seems clueless.

Third, and this is just an aside, but some of the outbursts and anger control issues demonstrated by some of the posters on this thread, make me believe that the kid is not the only one who missed out on positive male role models. Please note this has little to do with gender dysphoria, but rather personality development (i.e., the impulse control has less to do with the transsexualism than getting adequate male guidance when growing up).

Finally, as far as blaming the victim, suppose for the sake of argument that I put on a Minstrel outfit and blackface and then paraded around Watts in the middle of the night. That's me having freedom of expression. What realistically would you think would happen to me? If I can pretty much guarantee that there will be negative consequences, how much of those negative consequences would be my fault? Just curious.

[Tapatio]

First of all, if the victim behaves in a stupid manner, then part of the consequences are the victim's fault. Life is hard, and it is a lot harder when you are stupid.

Secondly, I don't claim any special intelligence as a child, I think most kids by the age of 8 or 9 know very well what is appropriate and what is not appropriate to bring to school.

Third, and this is just an aside, but some of the outbursts and anger control issues demonstrated by some of the posters on this thread, make me believe that the kid is not the only one who missed out on positive me role models...

Finally, as far as blaming the victim, suppose for the sake of argument that I put on a Minstrel outfit and blackface and then paraded around Watts in the middle of the night. That's me having freedom of expression. What realistically would you think would happen to me? If I can pretty much guarantee that there will be negative consequences, how much of those negative consequences would be my fault? Just curious.

Your first statement assumes the kid was doing something wrong; your second point furthers that thought and states he should have known better.

Your third statement is just an insult, and your fourth is insulting. Are you really going to equate the choice of a lunchbox with such racist symbols?

You did get one thing right when you said kids have poor impulse control. The part of the brain that controls that doesn't fully develop until the early to mid 20s. But that contradicts your second statement, so we should just move on.

Dude, have fun with your worldview, if you can; I'm miserable just reading this.

You have the chance to learn something here.

[Jamie French]

Sooo, basically arguing for the status quo? No other disposition could possibly be any more lazy, ineffective and safe. You must get absolutely nothing done. I mean, other than posting empty internet arguments... we all have hobbies.


My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

[Jamie French]

Also, just saying... the cartoon this kid likes and is getting picked on over? Freakin' amazing. It's sincere, intelligent, quick witted and very, very sweet. The animation itself is comfort food for the eyes. There are very good reasons this simple children's television program has a reach that extends beyond the scope of its intended demographic.

The problem isn't that the little kid needs less "ponies" in his life, the problem is that the bully never had any.

[TSMichelleAustin]

Im not going to read this whole thread... but there is a whole MLP movement where str8 adult men go to Brony Conventions, whole documentary on Netflix. Watch it, its very good! Doesn't make them gay, and doesn't make this boy gay cuz he likes the MLP. No one to blame but the people hurting or bullying him. STUPID OF OP TO BLAME MOM! She is letting her son be himself... which more parents should do then we wouldn't have this bullying shit. I grew up not acting like a girl, or any of that... but I was still bullied but the minute I came out no one ever bullied me again. Imagine if I could of went to school the way I wanted to.

[Jamie French]

The OP has a thing for the whole 'strong male role model' argument. By his definition of what a strong male role model is, his dad must have failed super hardcore. After all, his kid is hanging out on a tranny porn forum, checkin' out all the pretty little cocks and starting his very own MLP threads.

[TSMichelleAustin]

My father was a strong male role model, and for a long time I had no female in my life... so to say it is how my father raised me, is how I live now is stupid. My friends were scared of my dad! LOL Again why is the OP even here?

[Rabbiteyes]

Also, just saying... the cartoon this kid likes and is getting picked on over? Freakin' amazing.

^^~agree~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHy3ZhY9VKs

[bluesoul]

Yes. And do lion cubs bully other lion cubs and call them names? Of course not.

actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretation


They harass others because to divert attention from what they are afraid others will perceive as their own inadequacies. This is not a natural or primitive state.

i disagree with this statement particularly (but also the others you made).

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut1HkNCEDI

[mildcigar_2001]

It is interesting that the people that should know better are actively advocating for a miserable childhood for the pink pony loving kid.

The "My Little Pony" toys/backpack in a vacuum are neither good or bad. The problem is that the kid does not live in a vacuum.

Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

If adults want to make bad choices that is fine they are adults. For example an adult eats until they look like a sow, then that is that adult's own problem. On the other hand if your kid is doing that you as a parent have an obligation to attempt to do something about it.
I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

[Jamie French]

Nobody lives in a vacuum, including the bully and a whole host of different flavored assholes. You act violently, you either receive violence in kind or some other just punishment. The kid still gets to play with his pony and you get to rot in a small un-fun box.

You speak against a kid's right to play with pink toys, you're denying a kid his freedom. That flies in the face of an American's right to pursue happiness. I'd have a broken bottle fight on sight with anyone I knew who spoke out against American freedom and the happiness it brings.

And another thing... nobody gives a fuck what some kid does. You'd like to think so, but you'd be projecting. (Pro-Tip: Kids in general love MLP) Every once in a great while some foul shit happens somewhere out there in this great big land of ours, but that's exactly why it makes the news. It's a freakin' anomaly. Fuck off already.





It is interesting that the people that should know better are actively advocating for a miserable childhood for the pink pony loving kid.

The "My Little Pony" toys/backpack in a vacuum are neither good or bad. The problem is that the kid does not live in a vacuum.

Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

If adults want to make bad choices that is fine they are adults. For example an adult eats until they look like a sow, then that is that adult's own problem. On the other hand if your kid is doing that you as a parent have an obligation to attempt to do something about it.
I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

[Jamie French]

You can find Pony shit right next to the Cannibal Corpse CDs down at your local HotTopic, the only folks who turn a nose up to MLP these days are small handful of dumb-fucks who are out of the loop and full grown adults who have better things to do with there time than spare a single thought on the latest flavor of plastic garbage you can buy down at the mall.

Your little theory is nothing more than self righteous, paranoid, underdeveloped garbage at best.

[mildcigar_2001]

You can find Pony shit right next to the Cannibal Corpse CDs down at your local HotTopic....

I realize that you are from BFN, but you know what they stock at "HotTopic," really??

[trish]

actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretationWhat the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.
Lion Cub Gives Us His Best Roar - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBjKntYuUIk)

Among humans bullying may be common, but it’s not normal. It’s the result of deep seated insecurities. It’s a bid for the approval of the audience. (Group approval is power, btw). A bully is much more likely to act out his or her insecurities when their is an audience. The contrapositive of this is that an audience that is not amused can suppress this acting out without even lifting a finger.

But enough with the motivations of the bully. The issue most in dispute here is the action of the 1) victim, 2) his mother and 3) the school. Let’s take them in reverse order.

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school. It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies. Your further recommendation for the school: Don’t bother counseling the bully, just let his insecurities deepen.

What should the mother do? Of course she knows a pink pony logo on a lunchbox, a jacket etc. might call attention of an unwanted sort. She’s at least as smart as mildcigar_2001. Everybody on the planet is. It’s not a matter of being smart enough to avoid drawing the attention of bullies. It’s a matter of weighing her child’s right to innocent self-expression against the likelihood of and the dangers of being bullies and hassled (which believe it or not, in some school environments, is not all that likely). It’s a cost/benefit analysis. Being bullied is not the worse thing that can happen to a child. In some cases it maybe be less harmful than letting the child be him- or herself. Sometimes, there are no good or bad choices, just choices with different consequences.

What should the kid do? Be himself, of course. That’s the only thing he can do.

There are a few here that keep bringing up lions, tigers and bears. Oh my! Nature, red in tooth and claw. With little doubt the victimized child will survive and I bet he grows to have a strong and interesting personality. If you insist on getting Darwinian-Nietschean about it, “That which does not destroy me makes me stronger.” What about the bully? If he doesn’t get help or grow out his insecurities on his own the bully will grow more and more miserable with himself. He’s a loser. He needs help. At some point in their adult lives the kids in the crowd who degraded themselves by egging the bully on will blush with shame at the memory. Some might even remember it differently to their future friends, “I remember there was a guy bullying a kid, and I stepped in and stopped it.”


actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretation



i disagree with this statement particularly (but also the others you made).

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut1HkNCEDI

[dderek123]

http://i.imgur.com/9HYGeeY.jpg

[trish]

My last post with corrections:

What the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.
Lion Cub Gives Us His Best Roar - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBjKntYuUIk)

Among humans bullying may be common, but it’s not normal. It’s the result of deep seated insecurities. It’s a bid for the approval of the audience. (Group approval is power, btw). A bully is much more likely to act out his or her insecurities when there is an audience. The contrapositive of this is that an audience that is not amused can suppress this acting out without even lifting a finger.

But enough with the motivations of the bully. The issue most in dispute here is the action of the 1) victim, 2) his mother and 3) the school. Let’s take them in reverse order.

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school.
It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies.
Your further recommendation for the school: Don’t bother counseling the bully, just let his insecurities deepen.

What should the mother do? Of course she knows a pink pony logo on a lunchbox, a jacket etc. might call attention of an unwanted sort. She’s at least as smart as mildcigar_2001. Everybody on the planet is. It’s not a matter of being smart enough to avoid drawing the attention of bullies. It’s a matter of weighing her child’s right to innocent self-expression against the likelihood of and the dangers of being bullies and hassled (which believe it or not, in some school environments, is not all that likely). It’s a cost/benefit analysis. Being bullied is not the worse thing that can happen to a child. In some cases it maybe be less harmful than not letting the child be him- or herself. Sometimes, there are no good or bad choices, just choices with different consequences.

What should the kid do? Be himself, of course. That’s the only thing he can do.

There are a few here that keep bringing up lions, tigers and bears. Oh my! Nature, red in tooth and claw. With little doubt the victimized child will survive and I bet he grows to have a strong and interesting personality. If you insist on getting Darwinian-Nietschean about it, “That which does not destroy me makes me stronger.” What about the bully? If he doesn’t get help or grow out his insecurities on his own the bully will grow more and more miserable with himself. He’s a loser. He needs help. At some point in their adult lives the kids in the crowd who degraded themselves by egging the bully on will blush with shame at the memory. Some might even remember it differently to their future friends, “I remember there was a guy bullying a kid, and I stepped in and stopped it.”

[bluesoul]

My last post with corrections:

What the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.

again, i disagree. just become it comes from a young cub doesn't mean it's not a roar. it's like saying "a child doesn't cry it wails" just because it doesn't sound like a grown up crying

the cubs vocal cords haven't developed like it's parent so it's roar sounds different. humans have also chosen to interrupt the sound based on how they hear it i.e. it sounds cute so it's a pur. it sounds mean so it's a roar.

also, you said the clip shows a pride defending it's kill and territory. what do you think the defeated (and former pride leader) considers it's attacker if not a bully? do you think it thinks that was just a friend that came into it's family territory, killed it's children and ripped off it's balls? isn't that (literally) the defintion of a bully?

and like i said earlier, i think bullying is normal. it's just a part of social interaction. so it's difficult to address your other points when i disagree with the main crux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynkoOlhyNU

[bluesoul]

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school.
It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies.


i think you have me misunderstood. i don't think pink ponies should be banned. in fact, there are a lot of things that are banned that i don't think should be banned. personally, i'd rather be arguing to unban books that are banned, because i know nothing about my little pony (or pink ponies) except their color and size

[thombergeron]

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

It sounds like you’re talking about psychopaths, not bullies. I would really suggest that you consider familiarizing yourself with the scientific literature on bullying rather relying on your own incomplete experience and understanding. Most bullies engage in bullying behaviors because they, themselves, have been bullied. Bullies show higher rates of depression, anxiety, and self-harm than the general population. There may be a power-seeking component, but only to the degree that the bully was previously disempowered.


Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

Preventing bullying behavior is not about “punishing” kids. Choosing between punishing the victim and punishing the bullies is already a societal failure. It’s about creating a developmental environment for all children in which bullying is recognized as antisocial and unacceptable. That’s where the grown-ups come in, to model good behavior.

mildcigar_2001 and blue soul are modeling very poor behavior, by insisting that the victimization of children for any reason is somehow “predictable” or “natural.” Children learn behaviors by trying things out and then evaluating the reactions of those around them, especially the adults. When antisocial grownups witness bullying behaviors and say, “Well, kids will be kids,” then the bullies see that their antisocial behavior is what these adults expect of them, and their antisocial behavior is validated and reinforced.


I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

It’s kind of bizarre to hear someone say this, given the enormous cultural changes that have taken place in our society over the last 15 years or so. In 1998, Matthew Shepard was murdered for being gay and “poofy” people were denied legal recognition of their domestic relationships. Today, hate crimes against gay people are vigorously prosecuted and gay marriage is on its way to legal recognition in every state in the U.S. In 2002, Gwen Araujo was murdered for being transgender. Today, Isis King is a regular contestant on one of the most popular reality shows on television.

In fact, the world is changing, for the better and pretty rapidly. You should consider joining the rest of us.

[dderek123]

Hopefully, when we get old, wrinkled and grey homophobia will be as taboo as racism.

Then people won't think:

Oh well they are just asking for it if you play with pink toys when you're the target of bullying.

Sounds similar to other civil issues regarding sex, race, religion and creed.

[trish]

again, i disagree. just become it comes from a young cub doesn't mean it's not a roar. it's like saying "a child doesn't cry it wails" just because it doesn't sound like a grown up crying

the cubs vocal cords haven't developed like it's parent so it's roar sounds different. humans have also chosen to interrupt the sound based on how they hear it i.e. it sounds cute so it's a pur. it sounds mean so it's a roar.

also, you said the clip shows a pride defending it's kill and territory. what do you think the defeated (and former pride leader) considers it's attacker if not a bully? do you think it thinks that was just a friend that came into it's family territory, killed it's children and ripped off it's balls? isn't that (literally) the defintion of a bully?

and like i said earlier, i think bullying is normal. it's just a part of social interaction. so it's difficult to address your other points when i disagree with the main crux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynkoOlhyNUOnce again, all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff is irrelevant (to the issue of bullying) as well as wrong (cubs don't bully). You really do need to look up a few things. In spite of what you "think," bullying is not normal. It is an antisocial aberration. As tombergon points out, it is a learned behavior. It is reinforced by peer audiences. No matter how many times you "disagree with the main crux" the fact of the matter will not change. Don't be afraid. Look it up.

[trish]

i think you have me misunderstood. i don't think pink ponies should be banned. in fact, there are a lot of things that are banned that i don't think should be banned. personally, i'd rather be arguing to unban books that are banned, because i know nothing about my little pony (or pink ponies) except their color and sizeGood. But then I'm confused. Why argue in support of the School's action? Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?

[dderek123]

http://i.imgur.com/8lZYi9k.jpg

[trish]

Nothing wrong with our school system dderek, it taught me how to construct grammatical sentences like "Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?" What fer you doin' to point finger at 'mercan schuls fer?

[bluesoul]

No matter how many times you "disagree with the main crux" the fact of the matter will not change.

i agree with you here, except my "facts" and "matter" are different from yours, and i too don't feel like anything will change. also, coincidentally, i think you too should not be afraid to look things up


Good. But then I'm confused. Why argue in support of the School's action? Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?

because i think what the bullies did was natural. i also never said (or argued) the mother should ban or discourage her son from taking his favorite napsack to school. i think she should encourage him to do so and face his tormentors, not cower at home and boycott the school or request a ban lift.

i'm a firm believer in facing fear, not running away from it. if he can't do so, then to the winner go the spoils

[bluesoul]

Once again, all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff is irrelevant (to the issue of bullying)

actually, it supports my point because (like i said earlier) bullying is natural, so "all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff" relevant

[trish]

I see. You "feel" "your facts" to be true and changing them isn't in your future. Let's leave that on the wayside.

When I ask why support the school's action and why should the mother ban her kid from taking his pony backpack to school your response is


because i think what the bullies did was natural . What's that got to do with the question? For the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Why isn't the mother right too? As I've explained before in a passage you thought was convenient to ignore, it may be better for the child endure the harassment of a bully than to suppress the expression of his own personality through innocent and harmless means.

But really. You need to do some homework. You misuse the word "feral" and when people point you to a dictionary, you still refuse to acknowledge or use the definition given by professional lexicographers. I agree, you can't argue. But not because your "facts" are different from other people's, but because you don't have the facts.

[dderek123]

Nothing wrong with our school system dderek, it taught me how to construct grammatical sentences like "Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?" What fer you doin' to point finger at 'mercan schuls fer?

Haha I'm east coast Canadian. We're not the brightest sounding people either. The schools are pretty good though but bullying and cyber bullying are becoming worse it seems. There was a young girl who committed suicide a few years ago after being bullied for a long time online. It's a really sad story but the mucky mucks are taking a closer look at things and hopefully some progress will be made. Her name was Rehtaeh Parsons if you're curious.

I'm a former teacher, I believe that bullying is an inevitability since it is a human behavior (IMHO) and young students should be taught about it and how to deal with it. As for the school backpack, I think the mother replacing it would be pragmatic way to prevent her son from being bullied. It should be a family decision though. The school should be working preventing the bullying from happening through education.

If he was really attached to it and he HAD to have it as if it were an expression of his individuality. In that case, replacing it would send the wrong message to him. I would back my son up and make sure he can deal with the BS at school in a good and safe way. School and work is rife with BS so it would be a good opportunity to teach him how to deal with it.

[trish]

A reasoned response.

Aggressive behavior is natural. Insecurities are inevitable. And parents that have been bullied as children will be around for awhile. Put the three together and bullies will be as common as warts. Having one natural component (aggression) doesn't entail it isn't as aberrant as a case of warts and in need of attention. Certainly nature didn't select for cyber-bullies.

The mother replacing the napsack would be a pragmatic solution, but not necessarily the best solution for her son. I don't think we can make any general prescription here, as the best solution depends intimately upon the people involved, as your response indicates.

Thanks.

[dderek123]

Thanks.

No thank you!

[thombergeron]

It's important to note that broad, incessant, and sensationalist media coverage often leads to gross misperceptions. The media reports breathlessly on cyberbullying, but that's only because it's a relatively new phenomenon, not because it's actually widespread. The highest prevalence of cyberbullying that's been reported anywhere is like 11%.

As for bullying behaviors in general, we know that their prevalence is not increasing, and most researchers have found significant declines in bullying over the past 20 years. Even the most pessimistic experts see a flat trend. This is a nice summary from one of the U.S.'s foremost experts in youth violence:

http://bit.ly/OC7uI9

Money quote: "Four U.S. national data sets show substantial declines in face‐ to‐face bullying and peer related victimizations at school from the 1990s to recent years."

The world is changing, and it's getting better.

[bluesoul]

. What's that got to do with the question? For the sake of argument, let's say you're right.

it has to do with me answering your question


Why isn't the mother right too?

what are you asking? why isn't the mother right in pulling her child out of school (and homeschooling him) or requesting for the bullies to be disciplined? she's not right for pulling him out of school. she's right for requesting the bullies to be disciplined. but will she be requesting this for the rest of this child's life? because bullies exist beyond school. bullies exist in high school, college, work etc.

asking for the bullies to be disciplined (IMO) isn't enough. she has to educate her child to face these kind of people otherwise he will be a victim for the rest of his life

i don't appreciate the rest of what you said and neither do i see the point of you saying it. if you wish to end the discussion simply say so, but telling me i need to do homework is just a lazy way of saying "go read something that will help you agree with me" and that's not going to happen

end-of-conversation

[trish]

it has to do with me answering your questionPlease explain the logic of how it relates to the question.


what are you asking? why isn't the mother right in pulling her child out of school (and homeschooling him) or requesting for the bullies to be disciplined? she's not right for pulling him out of school. she's right for requesting the bullies to be disciplined. but will she be requesting this for the rest of this child's life? because bullies exist beyond school. bullies exist in high school, college, work etc.Are you sober right now?


asking for the bullies to be disciplined (IMO) isn't enough.Not necessarily disciplined but certainly helped.


she has to educate her child to face these kind of people otherwise he will be a victim for the rest of his lifeAnd telling the kid to hide behind a false projection of himself isn't necessarily the appropriate lesson.

[gaysian71]

This is a really dumb thread. I would think that members of this forum would be a little more understanding of a little boy who wants to use a my little pony back pack. If it's the boy or his mothers fault for allowing him to have a backpack like that, then I guess it's ok to rape a woman who is dressed provacatively. After all when you dress that way you got it coming to ya right? Or it's ok to murder a transsexual woman or gay man. After all gays and transsexuals have a lot of nerve dressing like a woman and or sucking cock and taking it in the ass. And lastly, it must be fine to murder a tranny chaser or admirer. After all, men who like a woman with a cock are not worthy of living, right?

I don't mean to rant so much, but I'm just sayin.

[Luvs T Gyrls]

I like My little Pony,but Vas ist das Flammer?

[trish]

Maybe he sees the toy as an expression of his fundamental nature, maybe he doesn’t. Maybe he can leave it at home without a second thought. Maybe, at this time in his life, he really needs the comfort of having it near. Clearly both mother and child are aware of the social potentialities of bringing the ponypack to school. It’s not of matter of being as smart as mildcigar_2001 (which is a pretty low standard). It’s a matter of weighing the pros and cons. Being made fun of by bullies is not the end of the world. If the kid has the backbone to stand up for himself, good for him. It’s a shame the school acted to keep the decision out of Grayson’s hands. But wait! Here’s the good news...

On March 20, the school retracted it’s decision. Grayson is free to bring his ponypack to school, should he still wish. The decision is now his.

So what is at stake for the trollers in this argument? Why was it so important for them to maintain the mother is irresponsible? Why did they want mothers across the U.S. to keep their sons form taking pink ponies to school? Was it really for the sake of the children? Are we really to believe that’s their motive? That that lies at the bottom of their intransigence on the subject? And why was Darwinism such an issue here? Why was it so important to assert that bullying is a natural behavior? By contrast, in their minds, what is it when a boy brings a pack to school with a pink pony logo? Unnatural?
More interesting than the issue under discussion is the deeper motivation of the trollers. Is it just for the fun of trolling? It certainly isn’t for the art of argument for none of them have yet proposed a coherent argument. Or are there unresolved issues said trollers have not yet come to terms with themselves?

[Tapatio]

I like My little Pony,but Vas ist das Flammer?

In the title of this thread, OP probably just misspelled "flamer."

As in "flaming homosexual."

Classy.