Same-Sex weddings in Church to begin in 2014 in England and Wales

[Stavros]

Now that the UK government has authorised same-sex weddings in England and Wales, as of 2014, it raises the intriguing question -what does the presiding priest say at the close of the ceremony?

"Butch, Nigel, I now pronounce you top and bottom"...??

[bluesoul]

here in the united states, they say "i now pronounce you partners" or "i now pronounce you married"

i think it depends on who is doing it and what the couple wanted. also, if you pronounce a couple top and bottom, they might want to switch so you wanna keep their options open

[Odelay]

I hear they're mandated. Blokes on blokes and birds on birds by the end of 2014, or they kick you out of the country.

[danthepoetman]

Now that the UK government has authorised same-sex weddings in England and Wales, as of 2014, it raises the intriguing question -what does the presiding priest say at the close of the ceremony?

"Butch, Nigel, I now pronounce you top and bottom"...??
:)
Good news! A bit after Canada, after France, after some US states. Everyone should have the right to tie his life to the loved one.
So progress in the West, but not everywhere else. I think in Ouganda and elsewhere in Africa, they punish homosexuality with death; and in Russia, with prison, not to talk about the beatings of people almost condoned by the authorities...

[robertlouis]

Now that the UK government has authorised same-sex weddings in England and Wales, as of 2014, it raises the intriguing question -what does the presiding priest say at the close of the ceremony?

"Butch, Nigel, I now pronounce you top and bottom"...??

Although they're specifically banned in the CofE, even if an individual priest would be happy to oblige. If the so-called "established" church is exempted from the law of the land, what's the point?

[bluesoul]

:)
Good news! A bit after Canada, after France, after some US states. Everyone should have the right to tie his life to the loved one.
So progress in the West, but not everywhere else. I think in Ouganda and elsewhere in Africa, they punish homosexuality with death; and in Russia, with prison, not to talk about the beatings of people almost condoned by the authorities...

how about this petition danthepoetman? did you sign it?

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canadian-government-require-internet-providers-to-automatically-block-any-and-all-pornographic-material

[robertlouis]

:)
Good news! A bit after Canada, after France, after some US states. Everyone should have the right to tie his life to the loved one.
So progress in the West, but not everywhere else. I think in Ouganda and elsewhere in Africa, they punish homosexuality with death; and in Russia, with prison, not to talk about the beatings of people almost condoned by the authorities...

We've had civil partnerships since 2008, Dan. This next step enables same-sex couples to be formally married, although, as I pointed out, since churches are allowed to opt out, it's still not all-embracing. Other good news is that the Scottish Parliament ratified enabling legislation too, so that an independent Scotland will also welcome gay marriage.

[Tapatio]

Prohibited by the C of E?

Just have the queen commission her own bible to support the politics.

There is precedent, right?

[robertlouis]

Prohibited by the C of E?

Just have the queen commission her own bible to support the politics.

There is precedent, right?

Yes, but that was in 1611! And nowadays the Royals don't have any real power. It will change in time but I'm not holding my breath.

What saddens me about the exemptions for religious organisations is that there are many people of faith for whom formalising their same-sex relationship in church would mean a great deal. It's a shame that the churches haven't as yet allowed individual priests to conduct such services on the basis of their own conscience.

However, given the momentous changes both in attitude and legislation of the last decade, we should rightly celebrate the progress that's been made.

[nysprod]

I don't know about England and Wales...but here in the U.S. in those states where same sex marriage is legal it has nothing to do with most churches (and certainly not the Catholic church)...a "justice of the peace' or other duly authorized lay-person performs the ceremony in the vast majority of instances although there are some ministers available. Same sex couples who feel religion is important in their lives would be well served to learn more about Unitarianism.

And to the O.P. this is a serious matter to a lot of people whom I'm sure would not appreciate your crack regarding ceremonial pronunciations.

[robertlouis]

I don't know about England and Wales...but here in the U.S. in those states where same sex marriage is legal it has nothing to do with most churches (and certainly not the Catholic church)...a "justice of the peace' or other duly authorized lay-person performs the ceremony in the vast majority of instances although there are some ministers available. Same sex couples who feel religion is important in their lives would be well served to learn more about Unitarianism.

And to the O.P. this is a serious matter to a lot of people whom I'm sure would not appreciate your crack regarding ceremonial pronunciations.

Unfortunately for us in the UK, the Church of England is the officially "established" church which means that it is part of the "establishment" to the extent that some of its bishops can sit by right in the House of Lords. It's another hopeless anachronism, and its refusal to adapt to mainstream thought and practice seriously undermines its privileged position imho.

The irony in the US is that although there is an avowed separation of church and state, many on the Christian right see it as their right and duty to impose their views on the rest of the population at state level, so the likelihood of equal marriage rights existing nationally is probably decades away.

[nysprod]

Unfortunately for us in the UK, the Church of England is the officially "established" church which means that it is part of the "establishment" to the extent that some of its bishops can sit by right in the House of Lords. It's another hopeless anachronism, and its refusal to adapt to mainstream thought and practice seriously undermines its privileged position imho.

The irony in the US is that although there is an avowed separation of church and state, many on the Christian right see it as their right and duty to impose their views on the rest of the population at state level, so the likelihood of equal marriage rights existing nationally is probably decades away.

It isn't just the Christian Right...Conservative, Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, Muslims and others (Russian and Greek orthodox) are against it (a situation where politics is making strange bedfellows).

Same-sex marriage is legally recognized in some jurisdictions within the United States and by the federal government. As of December 2013, fifteen states (California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington), the District of Columbia, eight counties in New Mexico and eight Native American tribal jurisdictions, covering 34% of the US population, issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples.

Governor Pat Quinn of Illinois signed same-sex marriage legislation on November 20, 2013 that will become effective on June 1, 2014. Oregon recognizes same-sex marriages performed in other states, and the issue is being litigated in the New Mexico Supreme Court and in the U.S. district courts for the Middle District of Pennsylvania and the Southern District of Ohio.

And even in states were same sex marriage is legal there is no ability of the state to pass laws requiring any church to perform the ceremonies...likewise, the federal government cannot force states to legalize them (it's a States issue).

[rodinuk]

In Australia it's just become a real mess with the High Court overturning gay marriage legislation which allowed Australians regardless of which state they lived in to marry within the Australian Capital territory.

Imagine getting married and then a government official telling you that you're no longer in a marriage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25344219

[robertlouis]

It isn't just the Christian Right...Conservative, Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, Muslims and others (Russian and Greek orthodox) are against it.

Same-sex marriage is legally recognized in some jurisdictions within the United States and by the federal government. As of December 2013, fifteen states (California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington), the District of Columbia, eight counties in New Mexico and eight Native American tribal jurisdictions, covering 34% of the US population, issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples.

Governor Pat Quinn of Illinois signed same-sex marriage legislation on November 20, 2013 that will become effective on June 1, 2014. Oregon recognizes same-sex marriages performed in other states, and the issue is being litigated in the New Mexico Supreme Court and in the U.S. district courts for the Middle District of Pennsylvania and the Southern District of Ohio.

And even in states were same sex marriage is legal there is no ability of the state to pass laws requiring any church to perform the ceremonies.

I accept that for some there is a sincere religiously-based objection to same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general, but I can't help thinking that for the vast majority they use it as a screen to disguise their prejudice and bigotry. And whenever I've had a discussion with someone in the former category their justification breaks down pretty easily under scrutiny.

It will take time, the only question is how much?

[nysprod]

It will take time, the only question is how much?

Many, many, many full moons, I'm afraid.

[robertlouis]

In Australia it's just become a real mess with the High Court overturning gay marriage legislation which allowed Australians regardless of which state they lived in to marry within the Australian Capital territory.

Imagine getting married and then a government official telling you that you're no longer in a marriage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25344219

Would they actually apply that retrospectively Rod? Blimey.

The Abbott govt will be a disaster socially for Australia. My sis - who's straight - lives in Sydney and sings with the Pride Choir. She'll be campaigning against this as strongly as she can.

[rodinuk]

Would they actually apply that retrospectively Rod? Blimey.

Yes - 27 couples have some bad news on the way...

[robertlouis]

Yes - 27 couples have some bad news on the way...

That is unforgiveable.

[danthepoetman]

We've had civil partnerships since 2008, Dan. This next step enables same-sex couples to be formally married, although, as I pointed out, since churches are allowed to opt out, it's still not all-embracing. Other good news is that the Scottish Parliament ratified enabling legislation too, so that an independent Scotland will also welcome gay marriage.
I see. Thanks, Robert Louis!

You are right, guys: I don't think we'll see churches marry people for a long time to come. Yet, I have the same feeling as Robert Louis on this: I'm pretty sure that a majority of people recognizing themselves as Christians are probably not opposed to gay marriges. And it's surely the same for practicing Jews and maybe even for Muslims. For Christians, there is definitely in the West a increasing gap between heads of Churches and their practitioners when it comes to individual rights and morals. We enter a whole different topic but in my eyes, these Churches will have to eventually ajust themselves to changes or they will keep on loosing practitioners in numbers...

[danthepoetman]

Yes - 27 couples have some bad news on the way...
That's almost monstruous...