Bottom Only?

[evilernie]

Will you be with a guy that only want to be top and wouldn't even touch your dick?

[jbehind]

I certainly do not!

[Ben in LA]

Will you be with a guy that only want to be top and wouldn't even touch your dick?

This is me.

[nysprod]

This is me.

Are you serious?

[Flaco]

Why don't Men who don't like to even touch TS Cock just fuck with GG's? I've never understood this.

[Ben in LA]

Who says they don't?

[nysprod]

Why don't Men who don't like to even touch TS Cock just fuck with GG's? I've never understood this.


Who says they don't?

I totally don't get a guy going with a tg and not touching her dick...I mean like, what's the point?

[danthepoetman]

Once again, it's not because you like t-women that you like cocks! I like t-women as much as I like g-women because they're... hello? WOMEN! The cock is not the interrest for me.
I'm totally with Ben on this...

[tsmirandameadows]

Will you be with a guy that only want to be top and wouldn't even touch your dick?

Yes.

[danthepoetman]

No one should ever have to apologize for being a woman (and having only feminine desires): aren't women the most beautiful product of life?

[robertlouis]

Yes.


Attagirl Miranda. :)

I'm with Ben and Dan. I love women, full stop, but I love them for their grace, beauty and femininity, and I certainly don't fetishise their genitalia, whether that's vagina or penis. You love the whole person, not one appendage.

[nysprod]

Once again, it's not because you like t-women that you like cocks! I like t-women as much as I like g-women because they're... hello? WOMEN! The cock is not the interrest for me.
I'm totally with Ben on this...

I think there's a difference...Ben is saying he absolutely will not touch a tg's cock under any circumstances...is that what you're saying?

[nysprod]

Attagirl Miranda. :)

I'm with Ben and Dan. I love women, full stop, but I love them for their grace, beauty and femininity, and I certainly don't fetishise their genitalia, whether that's vagina or penis. You love the whole person, not one appendage.

No, you've misunderstood this...Miranda is saying yes in the context of being an escort...of course she is not going to say no and neither would I were I in her place. The fact is that Miranda is very turned on when a man touches her, if her video is any indication (and why wouldn't it be).

So I'll ask Miranda, if it's the man you want in your life as your partner, do you want that man to never touch you?

[robertlouis]

No, you're misunderstood this...Miranda is saying yes in the context of being an escort...of course she is not going to say no and neither would were I in her place. The fact is that Miranda is very turned on when a man touches her, if her video is any indication (and why wouldn't it be).

So I'll ask Miranda, if it's the man you want in your life as your partner, do you want that man to never touch you?

I understand and respect that, ny, especially where a girl like Miranda is concerned, and I would always want to fully accept my partner's desires and wishes, which certainly wouldn't go as far as leaving the cock entirely alone. However, I do only top, and the only things that have so far been, and indeed ever will be, up my ass, are a proctologist's glove and a colonoscopy probe!

[nysprod]

I understand and respect that, ny, especially where a girl like Miranda is concerned, and I would always want to fully accept my partner's desires and wishes, which certainly wouldn't go as far as leaving the cock entirely alone. However, I do only top, and the only things that have so far been, and indeed ever will be, up my ass, are a proctologist's glove and a colonoscopy probe!

Yes, I'm top only also however, I definitely touch...lol.

And right, I get it, it's not just about the dick so let's not go there...but to be with a trans women and NEVER touch her? That I don't understand.

[bigkid69]

When I have sex, oral sex is always on the table. I am a top but that doesn't mean I won't go down on a woman, doesn't matter what equipment is down there when I get there either.

[tsmirandameadows]

So I'll ask Miranda, if it's the man you want in your life as your partner, do you want that man to never touch you?

If by "you" you mean my penis, then meh. What I find arousing is generally kissing, cuddling, and touch in general, and when it comes to intercourse I prefer to be topped. To be honest, having my dick fondled is a non-starter; my boobs on the other hand are an immediate on switch. For a long time, I didn't find someone going down on me particularly pleasurable, but that's changing. Hand jobs generally don't do it for me, since I live in the States, and here few people have seen penises with foreskin, and don't realize that being uncircumcised significantly changes what is and is not pleasurable and what is and is not painful. I suppose I could try to instruct a partner in how to jack me off, but generally once I'm hard, I'm so aroused I'd rather just be pleasured or be pleasuring my partner than engaging in lessons. I got to top for the first time recently with another tgirl, and while the experience was VERY enjoyable, I think that was largely a function of the strong attraction I have for the girl and the fact that she seemed to be enjoying the result of my efforts. It was certainly not something where I was like "oh yeah, I'm fucking this chick's ass and it feels so good around my cock!" I probably would have been just as happy if she had fucked me or if we had just kissed and cuddled and gazed fondly into each others' eye.

So in short, if I guy just wanted to focus on holding me, kissing me, fondling my breasts, having me please him, and then him fucking me, without any direct ministrations to my penis, then I'd be a-okay with that. Remember, I totally get off on seeing a partner orgasm: it's not like I HAVE to cum in order to have a superlatively satisfying experience, nor are the most pleasurable parts of sex for me linked to my penis.

[robertlouis]

When I have sex, oral sex is always on the table. I am a top but that doesn't mean I won't go down on a woman, doesn't matter what equipment is down there when I get there either.



Not the bed, the floor or a chair? A table can be tough on the knees, allegedly. :dancing: :ignore:

[Ben in LA]

So in short, if I guy just wanted to focus on holding me, kissing me, fondling my breasts, having me please him, and then him fucking me, without any direct ministrations to my penis, then I'd be a-okay with that.
THIS is a more accurate description of me.

And I do make sure a girl gets off. The majority of the girls I've been with didn't want me touching their clit. Nipples and buttholes on the other hand...:salad

[bigkid69]

Not the bed, the floor or a chair? A table can be tough on the knees, allegedly. :dancing: :ignore:

At times, any flat surface will do. :)

[robertlouis]

If by "you" you mean my penis, then meh. What I find arousing is generally kissing, cuddling, and touch in general, and when it comes to intercourse I prefer to be topped. To be honest, having my dick fondled is a non-starter; my boobs on the other hand are an immediate on switch. For a long time, I didn't find someone going down on me particularly pleasurable, but that's changing. Hand jobs generally don't do it for me, since I live in the States, and here few people have seen penises with foreskin, and don't realize that being uncircumcised significantly changes what is and is not pleasurable and what is and is not painful. I suppose I could try to instruct a partner in how to jack me off, but generally once I'm hard, I'm so aroused I'd rather just be pleasured or be pleasuring my partner than engaging in lessons. I got to top for the first time recently with another tgirl, and while the experience was VERY enjoyable, I think that was largely a function of the strong attraction I have for the girl and the fact that she seemed to be enjoying the result of my efforts. It was certainly not something where I was like "oh yeah, I'm fucking this chick's ass and it feels so good around my cock!" I probably would have been just as happy if she had fucked me or if we had just kissed and cuddled and gazed fondly into each others' eye.

So in short, if I guy just wanted to focus on holding me, kissing me, fondling my breasts, having me please him, and then him fucking me, without any direct ministrations to my penis, then I'd be a-okay with that. Remember, I totally get off on seeing a partner orgasm: it's not like I HAVE to cum in order to have a superlatively satisfying experience, nor are the most pleasurable parts of sex for me linked to my penis.

That's very candid, Miranda, and thanks for being so open. I also like to be tactile, gentle and slow to begin with; it's important to set the tone and mood. And hell, it's what I'm like anyway, never been a wham bam type. But it's definitely my experience that most women prefer sex with a partner who shares and empathises on both the emotional and physical levels; far too many people - and this is an inevitable result of extended exposure to porn, sorry folks - treat sex as nothing more than self-gratifying masturbation that just happens to involve a second person. Without cuddles and stroking before and after it just isn't the same.

Phew, stands back, awaits onslaught...... :dancing: :hide-1:

[danthepoetman]

I think there's a difference...Ben is saying he absolutely will not touch a tg's cock under any circumstances...is that what you're saying?

I think Miranda is answering perfectly to this. It's pretty much what I meant, Nysprod: women have women's desires, generally speaking. And personally, I have the opposite and compatible desire for them. I wouldn't make some kind of solemn, notarised promise never to touch her penis, but her penis is certainly not the part I'm interrest in. Being with a t-woman, I just keep in mind that she has women's desires and I try to make love to her the way I make love to any woman. When it comes to t-women, I personaly prefer analingus and oral in the region rather than "giving HER a blow job", which already sounds so weird in itself...

[robertlouis]

THIS is a more accurate description of me.

And I do make sure a girl gets off. The majority of the girls I've been with didn't want me touching their clit. Nipples and buttholes on the other hand...:salad

That rings true Ben. And there are many girls out there who resent or are at the very least extremely self-conscious about their penis and are happy to be treated entirely as a female - that doesn't necessarily mean passive - but they'd rather deal with their penis than have the embarrassment of having you do so.

And I should make it clear that I'm not talking about escorting where the dynamics are necessarily very different.

[michelle28bc1]

What's wrong with you guys!!!
Most of us like our cock getting sucked and pleased. The ones don't probably have self esteem issues. I am a tgirl and I am proud of having a big girl cock, I am not ashamed not even a slightest bit.

[Ben in LA]

Different strokes for different folks...

[tsmirandameadows]

What's wrong with you guys!!!
Most of us like our cock getting sucked and pleased. The ones don't probably have self esteem issues. I am a tgirl and I am proud of having a big girl cock, I am not ashamed not even a slightest bit.

That's rather presumptuous.

[robertlouis]

That's rather presumptuous.

Indeed. And it contradicts my experience. That said, I don't go for girls with huge cocks and nor do I bottom, so there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy in what Michelle says - you meet people who like what you've got and vice versa.

But I certainly don't think it's to do with self-esteem, although many trans girls do have deep psychological issues in that area. When it comes to sex it's still basically about what you like doing and what you like being done to you.

The more fem a girl is in her looks, manner and general deportment, the more I'm going to be attracted. So the cock, or the genitalia in general, are actually pretty low on my personal list of priorities, if I think about them at all!

[Ben in LA]

That's rather presumptuous.

Exactly. That's why I said the majority of the girls I'VE been with didn't want me down there???at least not in the front lol...

[michelle28bc1]

Exactly. That's why I said the majority of the girls I'VE been with didn't want me down there???at least not in the front lol...

Well you must met some weird ones.
Cause all the girls I know like their cock getting sucked and pleased.
The ones don't like their cock getting touched all have some psychological problems and they all want to go post op.

[tsmirandameadows]

Well you must met some weird ones.
Cause all the girls I know like their cock getting sucked and pleased.
The ones don't like their cock getting touched all have some psychological problems and they all want to go post op.

So wanting to go post op is a consequence of "some psychological problems." Great.

[michelle28bc1]

Oh and to clearify, yes a lot of girls won't top they are bottom only cause they feel like bottoming makes them more feminine, but they still want their cock getting touched sucked and pleased,

[michelle28bc1]

So wanting to go post op is a consequence of "some psychological problems." Great.

Did I say that?

[robertlouis]

It's not uncommon for individuals on HA to take the view that their own beliefs and physical preferences around sex, transgender or otherwise, represent the only true path. The strength of dogma on here can be quite disturbing.

Personally, I find it amazing that in a place where we should be celebrating, supporting and championing diversity, people can be so narrow and, well, fundamentalist.

SMDH. :(

[michelle28bc1]

It's not uncommon for individuals on HA to take the view that their own beliefs and physical preferences around sex, transgender or otherwise, represent the only true path. The strength of dogma on here can be quite disturbing.

Personally, I find it amazing that in a place where we should be celebrating, supporting and championing diversity, people can be so narrow and, well, fundamentalist.

SMDH. :(

Well I am just stating a truth, most girls love sex and enjoying getting their cock pleased in whatever way. It doesn't have to be fuck a guy in the ass, getting sucked or stroked by hands works too.

[BBaggins06]

Phew, stands back, awaits onslaught...... :dancing: :hide-1:

Um, what year do you think it is? 2009? ;) The worst you'll get is a few random down votes ...

[robertlouis]

Well I am just stating a truth, most girls love sex and enjoying getting their cock pleased in whatever way. It doesn't have to be fuck a guy in the ass, getting sucked or stroked by hands works too.

I'm not disagreeing, Michelle, but I am saying that it isn't my experience. Neither of us is entirely right and neither of us is entirely wrong. You base your views on your own empirical experience unless you can afford the luxury of extensive objective research and study. But to use Miranda's term, I do think that "most" may be, well, presumptuous.

[robertlouis]

Um, what year do you think it is? 2009? ;) The worst you'll get is a few random down votes ...

That's fair; fewer flame wars of late. Boring, isn't it? :dancing:

[BBaggins06]

That's fair; fewer flame wars of late. Boring, isn't it? :dancing:

I blame the ignore button :Bowdown:

[michelle28bc1]

I'm not disagreeing, Michelle, but I am saying that it isn't my experience. Neither of us is entirely right and neither of us is entirely wrong. You base your views on your own empirical experience unless you can afford the luxury of extensive objective research and study. But to use Miranda's term, I do think that "most" may be, well, presumptuous.

How is it presumptuous? I know a lot of tgirls in real life, and a lot onlines too.
And even in this forum most girls love their cock and love to get pleased.

[michelle28bc1]

For example when I am with my girlfriends I am bottom mostly, I enjoy being bottom but I still want my girl to touch and suck my cock and make me cum. I can't imagine to have sex without my cock getting pleased at all. I mean it's like you fucked me and then you just leave without letting me cum, that's just so selfish, and it would really piss me off.

[tsmirandameadows]

Did I say that?

It was heavily implied by your sentence structure. The relation of the second independent clause ("they all want to go post-op") to the informal conditional statement that makes up the first independent clause (restated: "For all transsexuals, if a transsexual does not like getting her dick touched, then she has psychological problems") is ambiguous. If we are to take "they all want want to go post-op" as an antecedent of your argument, then you very much did say that wanting SRS implies mental illness. If we are to take that same clause as the consequent of your argument, the implication is less clear but there is clearly some correlation between wanting SRS and mental illness, as they both follow from not wanting your dick touched, according to your argument. Ignoring the formal logic of your claim, the semantics of your statement are such as to likely be read as strongly suggesting that transsexuals who want SRS are headcases.

[michelle28bc1]

It was heavily implied by your sentence structure. The relation of the second independent clause ("they all want to go post-op") to the informal conditional statement that makes up the first independent clause (restated: "For all transsexuals, if a transsexual does not like getting her dick touched, then she has psychological problems") is ambiguous. If we are to take "they all want want to go post-op" as an antecedent of your argument, then you very much did say that wanting SRS implies mental illness. If we are to take that same clause as the consequent of your argument, the implication is less clear but there is clearly some correlation between wanting SRS and mental illness, as they both follow from not wanting your dick touched, according to your argument. Ignoring the formal logic of your claim, the semantics of your statement are such as to likely be read as strongly suggesting that transsexuals who want SRS are headcases.

I already said that's not what I meant but if you want to take it that way that's your choice.

[Brassai]

I"m with robertlouis and Miranda. It's presumptuous to make broad proclamations of truth unless you have a far wider sample than your girlfriends and people on this site. It is named HungAngels after all which indicates a certain positive penis-centric orientation to begin with. Considering thousands of TS opt for GRS surgery every year, clearly there is a sizeable percentage of TS's if not a majority who are at the least indifferent to their penises but most probably hate them. Oh and Michelle there is no such word as "clearify". I think you meant "clarify".

[michelle28bc1]

I"m with robertlouis and Miranda. It's presumptuous to make broad proclamations of truth unless you have a far wider sample than your girlfriends and people on this site. It is named HungAngels after all which indicates a certain positive penis-centric orientation to begin with. Considering thousands of TS opt for GRS surgery every year, clearly there is a sizeable percentage of TS's if not a majority who are at the least indifferent to their penises but most probably hate them. Oh and Michelle there is no such word as "clearify". I think you meant "clarify".

As I said most girls love their cock, and not just this forum or online.
You don't belive me, go research. Yeah a lot of girls get their srs but most don't.
And finally, fuck you.

[Brassai]

Miranda --- Question: What do u call Santa's little helpers? ... Answer: Subordinate Clauses .... sorry 'bout that, it's my only Christmas joke

[tsmirandameadows]

As I said most girls love their cock, and not just this forum or online.
You don't belive me, go research. Yeah a lot of girls get their srs but most don't.
And finally, fuck you.

What research are you quoting? Scientific statistical studies? Or your gut intuition based upon unrepresentative samples? If the latter, then stop making universal claims. Alternately, tighten up your language to reflect the limits of what you can actually claim to know with certainty, particularly when some people, myself included, find what you're saying pretty offensive. Hell, even if you had formal statistical data supporting your claim, you would still need to hedge your claim by recognizing that induction, and therefore all quantitative and empirical knowledge, can only say what is probable, not what is certain to be true.

[robertlouis]

As I said most girls love their cock, and not just this forum or online.
You don't belive me, go research. Yeah a lot of girls get their srs but most don't.
And finally, fuck you.

What research are you quoting? Any sources or is it just from the circles you move in? You're a tgirl who likes her cock, and it's therefore quite likely that you mix with girls who take a similar view

Most of the girls I know plan to get srs at some stage, but I'm not making extravagant claims based on that experience. It's just what I've gleaned from the people I know.

Back it or shut it.

[michelle28bc1]

What research are you quoting? Scientific statistical studies? Or your gut intuition based upon unrepresentative samples? If the latter, then stop making universal claims. Alternately, tighten up your language to reflect the limits of what you can actually claim to know with certainty, particularly when some people, myself included, find what you're saying pretty offensive. Hell, even if you had formal statistical data supporting your claim, you would still need to hedge your claim by recognizing that induction, and therefore all quantitative and empirical knowledge, can only say what is probable, not what is certain to be true.

Then what research do you have?
Show me.
Never mind, I am done talking to you.

[michelle28bc1]

What research are you quoting? Any sources or is it just from the circles you move in? You're a tgirl who likes her cock, and it's therefore quite likely that you mix with girls who take a similar view

Most of the girls I know plan to get srs at some stage, but I'm not making extravagant claims based on that experience. It's just what I've gleaned from the people I know.

Back it or shut it.

Yep you don't like girl cock so most of the girls you hangout with don't like theirs either.

[michelle28bc1]

And it's a fact that most majority of tgirls never get srs for whatever reason, I saw it when I was reading an article online, like it or not it's a fucking fact!

[tsmirandameadows]

Then what research do you have?
Show me.
Never mind, I am done talking to you.

I'm not the one making affirmative claims here, now am I? The burden of proof is yours, babe. Unless you can present some better argumentation in support of your rather offensive claims, what you have said is no better than if I were to say "All 'tgirls' who enjoy their cocks are really just gay and bisexual men who fetishize wearing women's clothing. No woman would want to have a cock or enjoy using one if she did. Don't believe me? Do your research." Both your claim and my hypothetical antithesis are baseless, unsupported, and offensive. If calling you on that is enough to make you storm off in a huff, then so be it.

[tsmirandameadows]

And it's a fact that most majority of tgirls never get srs for whatever reason, I saw it when I was reading an article online, like it or not it's a fucking fact!

I really need to get better in my troll detection. "I saw it in an article on the internet so it's FACT!"

[danthepoetman]

Let me ask you something, Michelle, if you please don't mind: do you consider yourself a transsexual woman, or a transvestite?
Transsexuality is a deep condition, rooting in biology, endocrinology and neurology, the latter generally being, in my opinion, the decisive factor. It's a condition in which a person, here born with XY sexual chromosomes, therefore theoretically male, has a profound feeling of belonging to the other sex.
This is very different from people who find pleasure in dressing up. Or every bit as different from people with autogynephilia, a pleasure in imagining yourself as, and dressing as, a woman...

[tsmirandameadows]

Let me ask you something, Michelle, if you please don't mind: do you consider yourself a transsexual woman, or a transvestite?
Transsexuality is a deep condition, rooting in biology, endocrinology and neurology, the latter generally being, in my opinion, the decisive factor. It's a condition in which a person, here born with XY sexual chromosomes, therefore theoretically male, has a profound feeling of belonging to the other sex.
This is very different from people who find pleasure in dressing up. Or every bit as different from people with autogynephilia, a pleasure in imagining yourself and dressing as, a woman...

Transsexual, of course. And you're absolutely right that while both transsexuals and crossdressers transgress gender boundaries, they are two very different species. One of my initial struggles when I was first coming out was that the only support group local to my home was largely populated by 50-something crossdresssers. While it was an extraordinarily nice group, it was not one which I, as a college student coming to terms with being a transsexual, could connect with or truly feel a part of.

[danthepoetman]

Transsexual, of course. And you're absolutely right that while both transsexuals and crossdressers transgress gender boundaries, they are two very different species. One of my initial struggles when I was first coming out was that the only support group local to my home was largely populated by 50-something crossdresssers. While it was an extraordinarily nice group, it was not one which I, as a college student coming to terms with being a transsexual, could connect with or truly feel a part of.

You are, Miranda, in your very identity, in your sexual identity, a woman. It's perfectly normal that you don't have a particular sense of appreciation for your penis. You are a woman. I don't want to get into this, because it's quite complex, but men and women's brains are very different; a small organ, which is linked closely to sexual functions, the hypothalamus has been shown to have one specifically sexually dimorphic nucleus, and specifically related to sexual identity -although most nuclei of the hypothalamus are dimorphic anyways. But this specific nucleus has also been shown to be identical in t-women and women, and different in men, showing that indeed, it's a deep matter of identity, and not a simple psychological condition, or any kind of frivolous desire.
But I was asking the question because I wandered if Michelle was not simply a transvestite, which would explain everything.

[michelle28bc1]

OMG I can't believe people online can be so stupid and ignorant.
I have numerous tgirl friends in real life both girlfriends and just friends, I have even more online, on dating website and social networks. I watch tranny porns everyday, I follow their twitters forum posts and youtube vidoes. I read online artilces and researches all the time.
And all the evidences all point to one result, that most tgirls like their cock.
So STFU!

[michelle28bc1]

You are, Miranda, in your very identity, in your sexual identity, a woman. It's perfectly normal that you don't have a particular sense of appreciation for your penis. You are a woman. I don't want to get into this, because it's quite complex, but men and women's brains are very different; a small organ, which is linked closely to sexual functions, the hypothalamus has been shown to have one specifically sexually dimorphic nucleus, and specifically related to sexual identity -although most nuclei of the hypothalamus are dimorphic anyways. But this specific nucleus has also been shown to be identical in t-women and women, and different in men, showing that indeed, it's a deep matter of identity, and not a simple psychological condition, or any kind of frivolous desire.
But I was asking the question because I wandered if Michelle was not simply a transvestite, which would explain everything.

Oh and let me tell you someting, one I am not transvestite nor a man dressing up like a girl, I am a woman!
And there is nothing wrong for a woman to want to have a cock, to love her cock. Even ggs want to have a cock, it's called penis envy, which I bet you don't even know what it is. So stop pretending you are so "knowledegeble", like you know anything about women. You are a man, you know noting about us or what we really want.

[cassieukts]

Once again, it's not because you like t-women that you like cocks! I like t-women as much as I like g-women because they're... hello? WOMEN! The cock is not the interrest for me.
I'm totally with Ben on this...
great answer as always Dan

[danthepoetman]

Oh and let me tell you someting, one I am not transvestite nor a man dressing up like a girl, I am a woman!
And there is nothing wrong for a woman to want to have a cock, to love her cock. Even ggs want to have a cock, it's called penis envy, which I bet you don't even know what it is. So stop pretending you are so "knowledegeble", like you know anything about women. You are a man, you know noting about us or what we really want.
Miranda, I rest my case...

[tsmirandameadows]

OMG I can't believe people online can be so stupid and ignorant.
I have numerous tgirl friends in real life both girlfriends and just friends, I have even more online, on dating website and social networks. I watch tranny porns everyday, I follow their twitters forum posts and youtube vidoes. I read online artilces and researches all the time.
And all the evidences all point to one result, that most tgirls like their cock.
So STFU!

If you're going to start calling people stupid and ignorant, PLEASE learn some basic critical thinking skills.

You cite tranny porn as evidence. Did you not know that tranny porn is a commercial enterprise? That likewise ts porn performers are trying to make a living, and that having a fan base is crucial to that? And that part of cultivating a fan base is presenting an image of yourself that will be most appealing to those fans but may not be a 100% reflection of your true self? And that finally most tranny porn fans like tranny porn because they want to see a girl using and enjoying a cock? Given your evident lack of analytical reasoning capabilities, I don't expect you to have followed the argument of my line of rhetorical questions, so let me spell it out: ts porn stars are more likely to get fans and get more work with a statement like "I love my cock and it makes me so horny to jerk off on a guy's face"! than "I really feel deeply uncomfortable with my penis and don't like it when partners touch it." Therefore, using tranny porn as evidence of a claim about transgirls makes about as much since as claiming porn is an accurate portrayal of sex as people actually have it, which is to say none.

I don't like having to get nasty about this, but I tried gently redirecting you away from your initial offensive comments by suggesting they were presumptuous. You just had to keep digging deeper though.

[robertlouis]

OMG I can't believe people online can be so stupid and ignorant.
I have numerous tgirl friends in real life both girlfriends and just friends, I have even more online, on dating website and social networks. I watch tranny porns everyday, I follow their twitters forum posts and youtube vidoes. I read online artilces and researches all the time.
And all the evidences all point to one result, that most tgirls like their cock.
So STFU!

Funnily enough I was thinking much the same thing. :whistle:

All YOUR evidence points in that direction; mine happens to point in another.

And I should add that my earliest involvement with the transgender scene had nothing to do with porn and everything to do with helping a dear and broken friend - we'd shared a flat after university - to come to terms with his sexuality and then to help HER through a difficult transition to become the happy and fulfilled woman that she is today and the adoptive mother of two lovely kids. And she had srs before you ask.

So my involvement had and continues to have very little to do with the transsexual porn scene and instead focuses on girls making their way, holding down jobs and seeking to become the women that they know themselves to be, because those are the circles that my friend came from and now organises and supports by giving back. They are a far larger part of the scene than you seem to be prepared to admit.

[danthepoetman]

great answer as always Dan
Thanks, Cassie! <3

[michelle28bc1]

And a person gender has nothing to do with with phycial body or whatever your "XY" genetic thing, nor does it have anything to do wtih their genitals.
Let me give you an extreme example, a lot of gg lesbians I have been with wish they have a cock so they can fuck other girls just like what I did to them.

[michelle28bc1]

If you're going to start calling people stupid and ignorant, PLEASE learn some basic critical thinking skills.

You cite tranny porn as evidence. Did you not know that tranny porn is a commercial enterprise? That likewise ts porn performers are trying to make a living, and that having a fan base is crucial to that? And that part of cultivating a fan base is presenting an image of yourself that will be most appealing to those fans but may not be a 100% reflection of your true self? And that finally most tranny porn fans like tranny porn because they want to see a girl using and enjoying a cock? Given your evident lack of analytical reasoning capabilities, I don't expect you to have followed the argument of my line of rhetorical questions, so let me spell it out: ts porn stars are more likely to get fans and get more work with a statement like "I love my cock and it makes me so horny to jerk off on a guy's face"! than "I really feel deeply uncomfortable with my penis and don't like it when partners touch it." Therefore, using tranny porn as evidence of a claim about transgirls makes about as much since as claiming porn is an accurate portrayal of sex as people actually have it, which is to say none.

I don't like having to get nasty about this, but I tried gently redirecting you away from your initial offensive comments by suggesting they were presumptuous. You just had to keep digging deeper though.

Hahaha, do you even read?
Did I say porn was the only source? Besides tons of girls enjoying making porns, oh you think all of them just do it cause they need money and they absolutely hate doing porn? Getting their cock sucked and cum with pain????

[michelle28bc1]

If you're going to start calling people stupid and ignorant, PLEASE learn some basic critical thinking skills.

You cite tranny porn as evidence. Did you not know that tranny porn is a commercial enterprise? That likewise ts porn performers are trying to make a living, and that having a fan base is crucial to that? And that part of cultivating a fan base is presenting an image of yourself that will be most appealing to those fans but may not be a 100% reflection of your true self? And that finally most tranny porn fans like tranny porn because they want to see a girl using and enjoying a cock? Given your evident lack of analytical reasoning capabilities, I don't expect you to have followed the argument of my line of rhetorical questions, so let me spell it out: ts porn stars are more likely to get fans and get more work with a statement like "I love my cock and it makes me so horny to jerk off on a guy's face"! than "I really feel deeply uncomfortable with my penis and don't like it when partners touch it." Therefore, using tranny porn as evidence of a claim about transgirls makes about as much since as claiming porn is an accurate portrayal of sex as people actually have it, which is to say none.

I don't like having to get nasty about this, but I tried gently redirecting you away from your initial offensive comments by suggesting they were presumptuous. You just had to keep digging deeper though.


Funnily enough I was thinking much the same thing. :whistle:

All YOUR evidence points in that direction; mine happens to point in another.

And I should add that my earliest involvement with the transgender scene had nothing to do with porn and everything to do with helping a dear and broken friend - we'd shared a flat after university - to come to terms with his sexuality and then to help HER through a difficult transition to become the happy and fulfilled woman that she is today and the adoptive mother of two lovely kids. And she had srs before you ask.

So my involvement had and continues to have very little to do with the transsexual porn scene and instead focuses on girls making their way, holding down jobs and seeking to become the women that they know themselves to be, because those are the circles that my friend came from and now organises and supports by giving back. They are a far larger part of the scene than you seem to be prepared to admit.

So just because you know that one girl and now you think all of us want srs?

[robertlouis]

Hahaha, do you even read?
Did I say porn was the only source? Besides tons of girls enjoying making porns, oh you think all of them just do it cause they need money and they absolutely hate doing porn? Getting their cock sucked and cum with pain????

Fuck this for a game of soldiers. I'm done. Sleep well everybody.

[tsmirandameadows]

Hahaha, do you even read?
Did I say porn was the only source? Besides tons of girls enjoying making porns, oh you think all of them just do it cause they need money and they absolutely hate doing porn? Getting their cock sucked and cum with pain????

I would ask the same question of you given the barely literate nature of your prose. And I was using porn as an example because evidently having the entire forum try to explain "unrepresentative sample" to you doesn't seem to be getting through. At this point, I can only come to two conclusions: you are a troll, or you just aren't very intelligent nor particularly able when it comes to evaluating the validity of a claim.

[michelle28bc1]

I would ask the same question of you given the barely literate nature of your prose. And I was using porn as an example because evidently having the entire forum try to explain "unrepresentative sample" to you doesn't seem to be getting through. At this point, I can only come to two conclusions: you are a troll, or you just aren't very intelligent nor particularly able when it comes to evaluating the validity of a claim.

Ok you are a troll, and you have low intellegence too.

[danthepoetman]

Oh and let me tell you someting, one I am not transvestite nor a man dressing up like a girl, I am a woman!
And there is nothing wrong for a woman to want to have a cock, to love her cock. Even ggs want to have a cock, it's called penis envy, which I bet you don't even know what it is. So stop pretending you are so "knowledegeble", like you know anything about women. You are a man, you know noting about us or what we really want.

LOL
I've never met a woman who wanted to have a penis, Michelle. Not this far, having share the life of a few and "made one myself" (well, with some feminine help, must I add lol).
"Penis envy" is a freudian concept rejected by just about the whole of the psychological therapeutic community, Michelle. I must say that the whole body of work of papa Sigmund has come to be taken in disfavor in these professional bodies, for reasons I won't evoke here. As to what Freud himself meant by "penis envy", Michelle, I'm affraid it pretty much comes back in circle to bite your ass on this one (forgive the French, but I am): it's the desire a little girl was supposed to have for being like a boy, and having this extra appendice, a desire she had to loose, yes, presisely to loose, growing up, to fully become a woman... a desire she was supposed to sublimate in order to make out of it a desire to be penetrated.

Now, I'm not here to judge what whom is what. I don't know you; I don't pass judgements about you. I simply was asking a question to you. The discomfort for the body you are born with, and specifically the sexual organs, is a well and in fact, universally identified characteristic of transsexuality, Michelle. I'm affraid you're so off mark it's ridiculous. Which should convince us to let it be, as far as I'm concerned...

[danthepoetman]

Good night, Robert Louis! Talk to you soon, my friend!

[michelle28bc1]

LOL
I've never met a woman who wanted to have a penis, Michelle. Not this far, having share the life of a few and "made one myself" (well, with some feminine help, must I add lol).
"Penis envy" is a freudian concept rejected by just about the whole of the psychological therapeutic community, Michelle. I must say that the whole body of work of papa Sigmund has come to be taken in disfavor in these professional bodies, for reasons I won't evoke here. As to what Freud himself meant by "penis envy", Michelle, I'm affraid it pretty much comes back in circle to bite your ass on this one (forgive the French, but I am): it's the desire a little girl was supposed to have for being like a boy, and having this extra appendice, a desire she had to loose, yes, presisely to loose, growing up, to fully become a woman...

Now, I'm not here to judge what whom is what. I don't know you; I don't pass judgements about you. I simply was asking a question to you. The discomfort for the body your born with, and specifically the sexual organs, is a well and in fact, universally identified characteristic of transsexuality, Michelle. I'm affraid you're so off mark it's ridiculous. Which should convince us to let it be, as far as I'm concerned...

Hahaha just because you haven't met one doesn't mean there is none.
And what's your problem? Girls can't have dicks or then we are not normal? Is that what you are trying to say???
Transsexual girls are not comfort with the body they are born with, but not their penis.
I didn't like my body before my transition, but I didn't dislike my cock.
I want a girly face and body with boobs which I have right now, but I never wanted to get rid of my cock.
Girls have rights to have their own cock too, it's not only a previledge for men.
It's a very simple idea and you just can't understand.

[tsmirandameadows]

Ok you are a troll, and you have low intellegence too.

Jesus Christ. If the best verbal defense you can mount is "I know you are, but what am I?" then I think it's time to put you on ignore. You misspelled intelligence, by the way. Did you learn argumentation in "Kollege"?

[ZELLGADISS]

What's wrong with you guys!!!
Most of us like our cock getting sucked and pleased. The ones don't probably have self esteem issues. I am a tgirl and I am proud of having a big girl cock, I am not ashamed not even a slightest bit.

Yes honey, it is logical that you are proud of your big cock, it is pretty, i would love suck it someday :Bowdown:

[ZELLGADISS]

Well you must met some weird ones.
Cause all the girls I know like their cock getting sucked and pleased.
The ones don't like their cock getting touched all have some psychological problems and they all want to go post op.

Very smart answer, you are very mature girl :)

[ZELLGADISS]

So wanting to go post op is a consequence of "some psychological problems." Great.

Well it is very logical that if you want to go post op, you dont accept your body, and you have problems with it.

[robertlouis]

Yes honey, it is logical that you are proud of your big cock, it is pretty, i would love suck it someday :Bowdown:

Oh fuck, this is getting silly. Bye.

[ZELLGADISS]

Oh and to clearify, yes a lot of girls won't top they are bottom only cause they feel like bottoming makes them more feminine, but they still want their cock getting touched sucked and pleased,

totally ok with you :)

[ZELLGADISS]

How is it presumptuous? I know a lot of tgirls in real life, and a lot onlines too.
And even in this forum most girls love their cock and love to get pleased.
totally logical, it is very sure that you gets big pleasure being sucked

[michelle28bc1]

Jesus Christ. If the best verbal defense you can mount is "I know you are, but what am I?" then I think it's time to put you on ignore. You misspelled intelligence, by the way. Did you learn argumentation in "Kollege"?

Hahaha, hahahahahaha....
Miranda, I just went to read your blog online.
And in your blog you said you like your cock and you love to masturbate it makes you feel good. You also said you enjoyed doing porn you had so much fun that your cock was hard the whole time. You said how you are a total slut and how you just wanna get fucked and used as a toy.
You posted so many pictures of your big hard cock with cum.
You know what, you are a super hypocrite.

[ZELLGADISS]

For example when I am with my girlfriends I am bottom mostly, I enjoy being bottom but I still want my girl to touch and suck my cock and make me cum. I can't imagine to have sex without my cock getting pleased at all. I mean it's like you fucked me and then you just leave without letting me cum, that's just so selfish, and it would really piss me off.

Yes , i see very stupid that the man gets pleasure and cumming and after he goes out while the tgirl doest not cum because you dont play with her.

[michelle28bc1]

totally logical, it is very sure that you gets big pleasure being sucked

And thank you so much sir, finally a sane person here. :)

[michelle28bc1]

Yes , i see very stupid that the man gets pleasure and cumming and after he goes out while the tgirl doest not cum because you dont play with her.

Totally agree!!!!
Those guys who don't suck girl's cock are selfish assholes!!!

[michelle28bc1]

Oh one more thing miranda, you should stop pretending being a good girl. There is nothing wrong with being a total slut, a filthy whore like me.
I am a slut and I am not ashamed of it at all!
By the way, I like your big cock. :)

[ZELLGADISS]

Oh fuck, this is getting silly. Bye.
bye to you too ;)

[ZELLGADISS]

Totally agree!!!!
Those guys who don't suck girl's cock are selfish assholes!!!
Exactly and to suck girl´s cock dont make you to be gay.
You are gay if you like a man, it is 100% sure.

[tsmirandameadows]

Hahaha, hahahahahaha....
Miranda, I just went to read your blog online.
And in your blog you said you like your cock and you love to masturbate it makes you feel good. You also said you enjoyed doing porn you had so much fun that your cock was hard the whole time. You said how you are a total slut and how you just wanna get fucked and used as a toy.
You posted so many pictures of your big hard cock with cum.
You know what, you are a super hypocrite.

Wow, you are fucking dense. One, I did not say that I "loved to masturbate", but that I had a specific "adolescent jack-off fantasy". If you can't distinguish between meanings there, god help you. Two, how does enjoying being slutty and being fucked require a love of your penis being touched? Three, reread my comment on how commercial interests mean that not everything a porn star says about sex can be interpreted as the 100% gospel truth.

Honestly, I'm rather shocked that someone with such a tenuous grasp of what is ostensibly their mother tongue and so little understanding of reasoned argumentation could be so certain that EVERYONE ELSE is stupid. But then, I suppose the worst kind of ignorance is to not know that you don't know.

[danthepoetman]

Yes Michelle, Zellgadis wants your big cock in his ass! Go on, girl! you're the right exact woman for that man! Yea!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1088889/falling-down-all-those-stairs-o.gif

[michelle28bc1]

Exactly and to suck girl´s cock dont make you to be gay.
You are gay if you like a man, it is 100% sure.

Totally agree, tgirls are all GIRLS! Whether you are a girl or not is depending on both your totaly phsyical appearence and your inside mentality, not just your genitals.
I hate those guys who think we are not real women, they think we have to get srs in order to prove it we are not crossdressers or gay men dressing in skirts, that's just so stupid!
Even we have cocks and we like it we are proud of having it doesn't mean we are not normal!

[danthepoetman]

Oh! Michelle! Your notions on transsexuality... :)
http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/girl_53c362_709466.gif

[michelle28bc1]

Wow, you are fucking dense. One, I did not say that I "loved to masturbate", but that I had a specific "adolescent jack-off fantasy". If you can't distinguish between meanings there, god help you. Two, how does enjoying being slutty and being fucked require a love of your penis being touched? Three, reread my comment on how commercial interests mean that not everything a porn star says about sex can be interpreted as the 100% gospel truth.

Honestly, I'm rather shocked that someone with such a tenuous grasp of what is ostensibly their mother tongue and so little understanding of reasoned argumentation could be so certain that EVERYONE ELSE is stupid. But then, I suppose the worst kind of ignorance is to not know that you don't know.

Miranda you are a super slut and you wanna hide it, I feel sad for you.
PS. I still love your big cock. lol

[michelle28bc1]

Yes Michelle, Zellgadis wants your big cock in his ass! Go on, girl! you're the right exact woman for that man! Yea!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1088889/falling-down-all-those-stairs-o.gif

And fuck you!
Whether I fuck someone or not and how I use my cock is none of your bussiness!

[danthepoetman]

Anybody can say anything and be anything, Michelle? Is that right! yeah! I love it! I just decided to be a girl. I'm going to have tits placed on my chest, and then I'll stay home all day every day to play with them!
http://i.imgur.com/NAxyP.gif

[danthepoetman]

And fuck you!
Whether I fuck someone or not and how I use my cock is none of your bussiness!

My God, you're getting more and more charming and feminine by the minute!
I'm sure you have a big, juicy cock to satisfy Zellgadis and all of these great beauz! What a femme fatale you are!

[robertlouis]

Zero sum game Dan. Leave it alone. :whistle:

[michelle28bc1]

My God, you're getting more and more charming and feminine by the minute!
I'm sure you have a big, juicy cock to satisfy Zellgadis and all of these great beauz! What a femme fatale you are!

Hahaha, you can do whatever you want, be a man or woman, I don't care. lol

[ZELLGADISS]

Yes Michelle, Zellgadis wants your big cock in his ass! Go on, girl! you're the right exact woman for that man! Yea!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1088889/falling-down-all-those-stairs-o.gif

You have some problem i see ;)

[maxpower]

Wow...WTF happened in this thread overnight?

[Ben in LA]

Wow...WTF happened in this thread overnight?

Yeah...it got pretty interesting. Considering some of the other threads from the past, it's just par for the course.

[BBaggins06]

I came here for the flame war and all I got was some mediocre trolling and sock puppet theatre ...

I knew Michelle was a troll right from their first dozen or so posts begging any random girl to come up to Idaho to hook up.

[michelle28bc1]

I came here for the flame war and all I got was some mediocre trolling and sock puppet theatre ...

I knew Michelle was a troll right from their first dozen or so posts begging any random girl to come up to Idaho to hook up.

STFU, you are the biggest troll, and who I hook up with is none of your business.

[BBaggins06]

STFU, you are the biggest troll, and who I hook up with is none of your business.

Of course it is. I wouldn't want to get any of that second hand crazy on me if I were ever to get with someone unfortunate enough to play hide the salami with you ...

[VictoriaVeil]

WHY ITS SOOOOO HARD TO BE A BOTTOM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0kqobQRcUo

1. Well I mean first of all someone is shoving a thing inside of u that doesn’t necessarily belong there. So.

2. But curiously, THERE ARE NO TOPS. Okay maybe there are like 5 tops in the universe. In the gay male sex world, the top to bottom ratio is totally skewed towards bottoms. There are waaaaaaaaaaaay more bottoms than there are tops.

3. You run the risk of your friends singing “THIS BOY IS A BOTTTOOMMMMMM!!!” at you when you go out together. Whatever tho — at least there’s a song about you!

4. Somedays you just don’t FEEL like bottoming, even if you are horny. Bottoming isn’t about just having someone put their piece in u. It’s about really W-A-N-T-I-N-G that piece all up in u. Two different sentiments. If you’re not feeling it, there’s no dice.

5. It’s SO much work, ugh.

6. Santorum.

7. Being ashamed of being a big old bottom. Even though 92% of gay men are bottoms, according to my ethnographic field research, lots of gay men are ashamed of it, as if there’s something less masculine about it. The majority of mainstream gay dudes are all about masculinity, and anything that eclipses that has got to go.

8. And speaking of which, if you are femme or even slightly effeminate or fey, the few tops out there in the gay sexual desert may not be interested in you. “If I wanted to date a girl, I would.” Oh lord.

9. If the top is inexperienced you are in for quite an experience.

10. When you meet a hot guy and you find out he’s a bottom, too, it’s like eyeroll. HOWEVER! If you meet someone really hot and he’s all “I’m a top,” you automatically go: “Oooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

11. Even if you enjoy bottoming, sometimes you get stuck with an everlasting top and you are sort of over it and he is still going at it and you sit through it just so he can get off.

12. He might try to pull some mess and take the condom off and you may not know. A bottom can’t pull the condom off without the top seeing/knowing.

13. People will assume you can’t top even though you have an extremely capable dick. There’s an automatic stigma around bottoming: once a bottom always a bottom. Even if you are sort of versatile sometimes, there are some guys out there who are all, “Yeah right. Do not want.”

14. Every bottom ever has slept with some top who treated his penis like an all conquering sword, stabbing you to orgasm I guess? Tip: can you not!

[tsmirandameadows]

I was thinking about this thread again for some reason and it occurred to me that if everyone knew the difference between existential and universal claims, and that while a universal claim is difficult to prove, an existential claim is not, and that conversely, universal claims are easy to disprove, but existential claims are hard to disprove, then there would be no need for a flame war.

Put another way, Michelle had sufficient support for an existential claim, but not a universal claim, yet insisted on making a universal claim universally. All she needed to do was replace "all transsexuals" with "some transsexuals" and I don't think anyone would have had a problem with what she was saying.

Learn these symbols, lol! ∃ vs. ∀

[BBaggins06]

I was thinking about this thread again for some reason and it occurred to me that if everyone knew the difference between existential and universal claims, and that while a universal claim is difficult to prove, an existential claim is not, and that conversely, universal claims are easy to disprove, but existential claims are hard to disprove, then there would be no need for a flame war.

Put another way, Michelle had sufficient support for an existential claim, but not a universal claim, yet insisted on making a universal claim universally. All she needed to do was replace "all transsexuals" with "some transsexuals" and I don't think anyone would have had a problem with what she was saying.

Learn these symbols, lol! ∃ vs. ∀

Miranda, trolls are impervious to logic and critical thinking. If they weren't, they wouldn't be a troll. ;)