Black people. I'm talking to you...

[mac.B]

I see now that when I made that last post that I didnt come correctly and that's my fault. I'm here t put you on game to what took me 5 1/2 years to find. I'm not here to convert you to anything. I'm no here to give convince you to not do something or keep you from anything that you dont want to do but I am here to share some info with you. What I'm sharing with you is already yours so PLEASE PM me so I can shed some light. I'll be here for as long as it takes. If anything just hear what I have to say. Thanks.

[dderek123]

Interesting!

http://i.imgur.com/c9fYg8s.gif

[Dino Velvet]

COLORS TBONE RABBIT SCENE LOL! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldMiOhNFh7U)

[fred41]

Are you selling time shares?

[kilakali]

COLORS TBONE RABBIT SCENE LOL! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldMiOhNFh7U)

Welcome back Dino !!

[maddygirl]

Lol, cocaine is one hell of a drug...

[mac.B]

Pic1: Europe (Moors head behind Pope)
Pic2: Asia
Pic3:The Americas

Hit me up. Peace:)

[tsmirandameadows]

I saw the original thread and I am still utterly confused.

[lordworm]

Smells like a conspiracy's cooking.

[Quiet Reflections]

welcome back Dino!

[giovanni_hotel]

Black people run this shit, bitches!!!!

Fall back.

I think that's where mac.b is going, implying the the REAL history of the world is a planet of Black skinned people who's real identity is being hidden and suppressed by a Western European conspiracy.

The only thing I will say is that skin color and culture aren't one in the same.

Looking like me, or even Dino, doesn't mean another person has the same cultural legacy.

[carjacker]

uh...can we get back to the tranny pics now?

[Gillian]

Yeah !! Dino's back !!

[mac.B]

Black people run this shit, bitches!!!!

Fall back.

I think that's where mac.b is going, implying the the REAL history of the world is a planet of Black skinned people who's real identity is being hidden and suppressed by a Western European conspiracy.

The only thing I will say is that skin color and culture aren't one in the same.

Looking like me, or even Dino, doesn't mean another person has the same cultural legacy.

"Black people dont run shit!! Lets be clear. This is why you need to hit me up so I can point u in the right direction. This "black" thnig is killing us...literally.
gl

[EvaCassini]

Da Fuq?

Can I hit you up even though I'm white, broke, and a tranny? lol

[RallyCola]

seriously...wtf is going on with mac.b? did he join the nation of islam?

[GroobySteven]

"Black people dont run shit!! Lets be clear. This is why you need to hit me up so I can point u in the right direction. This "black" thnig is killing us...literally.
gl

Post it here - on the board for everyone to see, or shut the fuck up.
If you want to solicit - then pay the advertising fee.

[Prospero]

Dino my man... it's good to see you bak, ever so quietly I see.... in one of the more bizarre threads on the forum. whatever...

[dderek123]

Have you heard of the Crotchman conspiracy? It's very interesting. I promise. Really I do. Trust me. C'mon please ask me about it. It'll only take a minute. You won't be disappointed 100%. What I'll tell you if you ask in the right way will blow your mind. Total mindbomb. Boom! Are you still thinking about asking me about it? Even just a little bit? I have all the answers! How could you not want to know?

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5004/122796979.58/0_af27c_49fbfdd6_L.gif

[Jericho]

Post it here - on the board for everyone to see, or shut the fuck up.

Rule #1 - Don't talk about Black Club! :shrug

[mac.B]

Look at the word/name/title at the top of the picture. Thought this was interesting. This is from "De Nieuwe en Onbekende Weereld" done in 1671 by Dutch author Arnoldus Montanus.

[tsmirandameadows]

I think we should rename this The Non Sequitur Thread.

[bzzzay]

It says Florida. Is there something hidden in the letters that I'm not seeing?

[mac.B]

It says Florida. Is there something hidden in the letters that I'm not seeing?


Nope

[maxpower]

So, what's your point? Stop trying to be so goddamned cryptic and just say whatever the fuck it is you want to say.

[mac.B]

So, what's your point? Stop trying to be so goddamned cryptic and just say whatever the fuck it is you want to say.

WHy are you so curious?

[Brassai]

O Miranda, speak more Latin to me ... can we play the priest and the naughty nun again ...

[soulvett]

Its been stated more than once that as a people we would come full circle. We introduced gold and silver as a form of commerce and mathematics to go by, we also butchered and enslaved other races as we grew twisted.

Once at the head, now at the tail. This isn't me condoning what has happened in our "known" history, but karma, as many would put it, is a bitch. We were a cruel and unforgiving people at one point, and we have since and continue to pay for it.

[Stavros]

Shall I put this one on the BarB too chief?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0axphagfQ1qhwx0o.jpg

Brazilians cook human flesh … © (1671) From Nieuwe en onbekende wereld by A. Montanus, Courtesy of New York Public Library Collection

[ohioguy13]

what the heck??

[bte]

what the heck??

Richard Speck, nine nurses you wreck.

[mac.B]

Shall I put this one on the BarB too chief?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0axphagfQ1qhwx0o.jpg

Brazilians cook human flesh … © (1671) From Nieuwe en onbekende wereld by A. Montanus, Courtesy of New York Public Library Collection

Yes, I'm aware that that picture exists. However, when the neanderthal settlers began to pass indianization laws to prevent their people from interacting with us one of the stories they told was that we practiced cannibalism. The funny thing is that their people actually began to believe it despite the fact that it was their own people who practiced that custom which led them to want to be with us in the first place.

But here are some pictures to even the score. Didnt have to search hard for these. ;)

[GroobySteven]

Mmmmmm - the other white meat. Long Pig.

[bluesoul]

But here are some pictures to even the score. Didnt have to search hard for these. ;)

yeah- no surprises here. i've always thought some girls were good enough to eat. i bet those white ancestors of mine are chowing down on some hot swedish babes- i know that's what i'd be doing :jerkoff

[mac.B]

Its been stated more than once that as a people we would come full circle. We introduced gold and silver as a form of commerce and mathematics to go by, we also butchered and enslaved other races as we grew twisted.

Once at the head, now at the tail. This isn't me condoning what has happened in our "known" history, but karma, as many would put it, is a bitch. We were a cruel and unforgiving people at one point, and we have since and continue to pay for it.


Other races? Were a completely different species although I do agree that we had to pay for the mass enslavement and blood sacrifices we put on those people. However our karmic debt has been paid but these people are still maintaining this artificial reality while keeping our people distracted, medicated, and uninformed. We're not in the wrong anymore.

[mac.B]

yeah- no surprises here. i've always thought some girls were good enough to eat. i bet those white ancestors of mine are chowing down on some hot swedish babes- i know that's what i'd be doing :jerkoff


White? I guess.:shrug

[bluesoul]

White? I guess.:shrug

well, technically, they look more like the simpsons with that yellowish color. but these guys have a much better tan

[maxpower]

Other races? Were a completely different species although I do agree that we had to pay for the mass enslavement and blood sacrifices we put on those people. However our karmic debt has been paid but these people are still maintaining this artificial reality while keeping our people distracted, medicated, and uninformed. We're not in the wrong anymore.


I don't think you know the definition of the word "species."

[mac.B]

I don't think you know the definition of the word "species."


:wiggle:

[trish]

Different species, eh? Bad karma here for sure.

[giovanni_hotel]

Not a different species. Come on man.

[mac.B]

Different species, eh? Bad karma here for sure.


That's more so a testament to your own self-hatred as a people that you wound up inflicting on mine in the trading places. Why if i, or anyone else for that matter, state the truth of who each of us actually is do i get branded with with slanderous titles? No matter what is presented in the media I am not neanderthal. But if I were part of the group of people who were then I would accept the fact that this is who I was and the cultural practices associated with my past. I wouldnt look at another peoples customs as being superior to my own and I would just live as I feel I'm supposed to- in a manner that brings me happiness and comfort. I wouldnt practice veganism knowing that I have trouble with the digestion of plant life.

[trish]

That's more so a testament to your own self-hatred as a people that you wound up inflicting on mine in the trading places. Why if i, or anyone else for that matter, state the truth of who each of us actually is do i get branded with with slanderous titles? No matter what is presented in the media I am not neanderthal. But if I were part of the group of people who were then I would accept the fact that this is who I was and the cultural practices associated with my past. I wouldnt look at another peoples customs as being superior to my own and I would just live as I feel I'm supposed to- in a manner that brings me happiness and comfort. I wouldnt practice veganism knowing that I have trouble with the digestion of plant life.
What species do you imagine I am, if not yours? What cultural practices do you imagine are associated with your past in particular? Did your people believe in reincarnation and karma? And why wouldn't you look at other people's customs to see if they might not serve your needs better? The arts of weaving, food preservation, hunting, pottery making, writing were and are broadcast throughout the world by travelers, traders and thinkers to the betterment of all our lives. You've borrowed the concept of karmic balance from others. You use and write in a language that was invented by others. You think in that language. It is not self-loathing to want to look around and see the world. Rather, refusal to recognize the fact that we are all related and of one species is symptomatic of an irrational fear of the Other.

[maxpower]

That's more so a testament to your own self-hatred as a people that you wound up inflicting on mine in the trading places. Why if i, or anyone else for that matter, state the truth of who each of us actually is do i get branded with with slanderous titles? No matter what is presented in the media I am not neanderthal. But if I were part of the group of people who were then I would accept the fact that this is who I was and the cultural practices associated with my past. I wouldnt look at another peoples customs as being superior to my own and I would just live as I feel I'm supposed to- in a manner that brings me happiness and comfort. I wouldnt practice veganism knowing that I have trouble with the digestion of plant life.


None of us are descended from the Neanderthals. Our genetic line split from theirs eons ago and the Neanderthals became extinct. Notice how I said "our?" That's because we're the same species.

[mac.B]

What species do you imagine I am, if not yours? What cultural practices do you imagine are associated with your past in particular? Did your people believe in reincarnation and karma? And why wouldn't you look at other people's customs to see if they might not serve your needs better? The arts of weaving, food preservation, hunting, pottery making, writing were and are broadcast throughout the world by travelers, traders and thinkers to the betterment of all our lives. You've borrowed the concept of karmic balance from others. You use and write in a language that was invented by others. You think in that language. It is not self-loathing to want to look around and see the world. Rather, refusal to recognize the fact that we are all related and of one species is symptomatic of an irrational fear of the Other.


If you say so.

[trish]

I did more than say so; I asked a few questions too.

[mac.B]

None of us are descended from the Neanderthals. Our genetic line split from theirs eons ago and the Neanderthals became extinct. Notice how I said "our?" That's because we're the same species.

Ok.:)

[maxpower]

I did more than say so; I asked a few questions too.


Hmmm...I wouldn't hold your breath on getting any answers to those questions you asked, Trish.

[Stavros]

Yes, I'm aware that that picture exists. However, when the neanderthal settlers began to pass indianization laws to prevent their people from interacting with us one of the stories they told was that we practiced cannibalism. The funny thing is that their people actually began to believe it despite the fact that it was their own people who practiced that custom which led them to want to be with us in the first place.


Neanderthal settlers? A new one on me. Them...us...isn't it always 'they' who practise cannibalism, even if in fact they do not? Cannibalism has been used as a means of demonising the other in many different cultures. Anyway Masterchef: the Professionals is on tv this week, hence the attraction of cooked meat, as long as its tender and pink when it gets onto the plate with a medley of crisp vegetables and a red wine jus.

[broncofan]

From what I have gathered you think those who share your background are fundamentally different from people of other cultures and need your guidance. It sounds like sort of an anthropologically confused separatist message. But then again you haven't written anything coherent and I doubt anyone needs the kind of advice you're offering.

[decastro]

What species do you imagine I am, if not yours? What cultural practices do you imagine are associated with your past in particular? Did your people believe in reincarnation and karma? And why wouldn't you look at other people's customs to see if they might not serve your needs better? The arts of weaving, food preservation, hunting, pottery making, writing were and are broadcast throughout the world by travelers, traders and thinkers to the betterment of all our lives. You've borrowed the concept of karmic balance from others. You use and write in a language that was invented by others. You think in that language. It is not self-loathing to want to look around and see the world. Rather, refusal to recognize the fact that we are all related and of one species is symptomatic of an irrational fear of the Other.
Theres a remote possibility that there are different subspecies within the human species...i mean it hasnt been ruled out. Theres been no worldwide all 6 billion people inclusive test done to see if we're all in fact completely human. So if he wants to believe that ours is a diff. species, the odds are against him but whatever, more power to him.

And the origins of reincarnation and karma are obscure at best. Its entirely possible that they were thought of independently by different peoples.

Gotta be careful when youre talking about language....you say he talks and thinks in a language thats not his, well isnt that purely a coincidence? If he was born in Africa he would think and speak in Ibo or Housa or what the fuck ever and the language would be his, according to your logic, would that then make his statement more legit? Or would his thoughts be different if they werent English?

I'm curious, when you say "broadcast through the world by travelers, traders, and thinkers" don't you mean systematically implemented by conquerors after war? Or maybe you still believe what your 3rd grade teacher taught you about that traveler Colombus. Or his boy, Ponce de Leon. I'm sorry its just that your vibe so completely reminds me of the shit my old teachers used to spit, this idea that we are ALL better off because of the people who came before us. That the world is so much better because of their infinite wisdom. All of us huh? Are we looking around and seeing the same world? Right now I'm watching the news and theyre talking about this storm in the Philippines and i'm trying to visualize 10, 000 people.

No, i cant see anything this man has said is that crazy save one thing, the assertion that our karmic debt has been paid. Or that we even had one to begin with. If karma is real, its a circle outside of time, too vast for anyone to comprehend.

[trish]

Theres a remote possibility that there are different subspecies within the human species...i mean it hasnt been ruled out. Theres been no worldwide all 6 billion people inclusive test done to see if we're all in fact completely human. So if he wants to believe that ours is a diff. species, the odds are against him but whatever, more power to him. Subspecies are not species. If mac B. cares to amend his statement to increase its chance of being correct from nil to remote, then that’s up to him. Either belief only serves to diminish his power to understand and cope with the world.


And the origins of reincarnation and karma are obscure at best. Its entirely possible that they were thought of independently by different peoples. Precisely why I asked the question “Did your people believe in reincarnation and karma?”


Gotta be careful when youre talking about language....you say he talks and thinks in a language thats not his, well isnt that purely a coincidence? If he was born in Africa he would think and speak in Ibo or Housa or what the fuck ever and the language would be his, according to your logic, would that then make his statement more legit? Or would his thoughts be different if they werent English? I didn’t say the language isn’t his. I said “You use and write in a language that was invented by others.” I’m Korean-African-Scotch-Irish-German/American. My language is English. It wasn’t invented by Koreans (1/2 of my genetic heritage) nor by Africans (probably 3/8 of my genetic heritage) nor by Germans. But it suits me fine. I am not calling into question the legitimacy of cross-cultural borrowings; mac. B is.


I'm curious, when you say "broadcast through the world by travelers, traders, and thinkers" don't you mean systematically implemented by conquerors after war?I was thinking of Thales’ travels throughout the ancient world, of trade routes between Europe, China and Japan, of the cross-currents of jazz, rhythm and blues, the Beatles, the “British Invasion” and yes too, the cross-pollination of cultures that result from war.


I'm sorry its just that your vibe so completely reminds me of the shit my old teachers used to spit, this idea that we are ALL better off because of the people who came before us. That the world is so much better because of their infinite wisdom. All of us huh? Are we looking around and seeing the same world?No. History is not the story of progress. Our understanding of the world progresses. But our capacity to misunderstand each other, sometimes deliberately, is as healthy as it ever was.


No, i cant see anything this man has said is that crazy save one thing, the assertion that our karmic debt has been paid. Or that we even had one to begin with. If karma is real, its a circle outside of time, too vast for anyone to comprehend.
May we all get what we deserve.

[BBaggins06]

I hear Ted Kaczynski's shed is available for the right price ...

[decastro]

Subspecies are not species. If mac B. cares to amend his statement to increase its chance of being correct from nil to remote, then that’s up to him. Either belief only serves to diminish his power to understand and cope with the world.

Precisely why I asked the question “Did your people believe in reincarnation and karma?”

I didn’t say the language isn’t his. I said “You use and write in a language that was invented by others.” I’m Korean-African-Scotch-Irish-German/American. My language is English. It wasn’t invented by Koreans (1/2 of my genetic heritage) nor by Africans (probably 3/8 of my genetic heritage) nor by Germans. But it suits me fine. I am not calling into question the legitimacy of cross-cultural borrowings; mac. B is.

I was thinking of Thales’ travels throughout the ancient world, of trade routes between Europe, China and Japan, of the cross-currents of jazz, rhythm and blues, the Beatles, the “British Invasion” and yes too, the cross-pollination of cultures that result from war.

No. History is not the story of progress. Our understanding of the world progresses. But our capacity to misunderstand each other, sometimes deliberately, is as healthy as it ever was.


May we all get what we deserve.
No you were implying that the fact his language is borrowed makes his own personal statement of independent truth invalid. That seemed to be a large part of your original statement which is why I tried to ask, if he arrived at the same truth via his native tongue, would his statement be more valid?

I do apologize if I misunderstood but you said to the "betterment of all our lives"....that to me implies progress. A higher standard of living, if you will. Worse yesterday, better tomorrow. I think in any language that's progress. Not a progress in "human understanding" but actual quantifiable progress for us all. Again, this is what your words imply....I dont know if thats what you mean

Many many many people existed outside of those trade routes you mentioned. if no one came on a trade route to my tribe to share with me this "art of hunting", would my tribe have been worse off? would we have died? Most likely not. You watch any program on animal planet and see, the ability to hunt and kill is deep within us. Art is for artists. Anyone can kill. Now if group A gets good enough at killing then they might broadcast it to group B. But most likely not to group B's benefit. And thats my point. How many lives is "progress" worth?

And i will never understand how a belief in what one is or what one is not can diminish one's "power" to understand the world. Maybe diminish one's capacity to cope with the world. Like, if i were a slave and i could not cope with the reality of being a slave I would be forced to take drastic measures to change my reality. Maybe for the better. Maybe my action would result in death. But never diminish my power. In fact, it seems to me that the people who cant cope but manage to maintain their power end up changing a lot more than just their own realities. Theres a movie about this out now i think, 12 years a slave or somethin like that, people seem to be diggin it.

[trish]

Reading back you will see I included language with the arts of weaving, food preservation etc. Things and knowledge which we trade and exchange, appropriate and make our own. Again, I am not and have never questioned the legitimacy of cross-cultural borrowings. I’m not even sure what legitimacy means in that context. But certainly mac. B suggests that to remain pure or true or whatever to our species it is not legitimate to do so.


No you were implying that the fact his language is borrowed makes his own personal statement of independent truth invalid.I don’t know what a personal statement of independent truth is. So I couldn’t be implying any such nonsense. That mac B. borrows concepts, drawings and even language demonstrates that he does indeed (contrary to his own advice) “look to other peoples customs” and appropriates them when he thinks they suit his needs best.


I do apologize if I misunderstood but you said to the "betterment of all our lives"....that to me implies progress. A higher standard of living, if you will. Worse yesterday, better tomorrow. I think in any language that's progress. Here I will admit to, in a brief space, giving a one sided account of the results of cultural exchange. I agree, technical and scientific knowledge progresses, our treatment of each other does not. This is the second time, btw, I conceded this point.


Many many many people existed outside of those trade routes you mentioned. if no one came on a trade route to my tribe to share with me this "art of hunting", would my tribe have been worse off? We'll probably never know how many tribes survived and how many went extinct. The reasons for the failures of civilizations are numerous and yes some have collapsed because of (among other things) self imposed isolation. Read Jared Diamond’s Collapse for an interesting analysis of why civilizations fail.


And i will never understand how a belief in what one is or what one is not can diminish one's "power" Neither will I. Socrates advised, “Know thyself.” Of course when I wrote of coping and understanding it wasn’t in the context of knowing thyself, it was in the context of species and subspecies. Human beings who believe they are a different species distinct from other human beings do not know themselves and are thereby diminished. Moreover their misunderstanding of even what species they are who and else it includes is dangerous for themselves and for everyone within their reach.

[broncofan]

I know from the one biology class that I took that one means of determining whether organisms are part of the same species is to see if their gametes are compatible. That is, can they mate with one another and produce viable offspring? Or, on the other hand, do sperm and egg fail to produce a zygote? You also have certain pairings that produce offspring that are sterile such as the mule, or peculiar intermediates like the over-sized liger that indicate there has been enough genetic drift to question whether the progenitors were members of the same species.

I think that human beings have proved over and over again that we can mate with people of every background and produce all kinds of beautiful children. It's just a matter of whether people will use superficial differences such as skin color or hair texture to stigmatize certain relationships and demonize the children who are produced by them. And I'm not a huge fan of keeping score on the number of inventions produced by each culture as those inventions provide benefits to all of us. Since we're all members of the same species, we all probably have equal use for useful things.

[decastro]

Reading back you will see I included language with the arts of weaving, food preservation etc. Things and knowledge which we trade and exchange, appropriate and make our own. Again, I am not and have never questioned the legitimacy of cross-cultural borrowings. I’m not even sure what legitimacy means in that context. But certainly mac. B suggests that to remain pure or true or whatever to our species it is not legitimate to do so.

I don’t know what a personal statement of independent truth is. So I couldn’t be implying any such nonsense. That mac B. borrows concepts, drawings and even language demonstrates that he does indeed (contrary to his own advice) “look to other peoples customs” and appropriates them when he thinks they suit his needs best.

Here I will admit to, in a brief space, giving a one sided account of the results of cultural exchange. I agree, technical and scientific knowledge progresses, our treatment of each other does not. This is the second time, btw, I conceded this point.

We'll probably never know how many tribes survived and how many went extinct. The reasons for the failures of civilizations are numerous and yes some have collapsed because of (among other things) self imposed isolation. Read Jared Diamond’s Collapse for an interesting analysis of why civilizations fail.

Neither will I. Socrates advised, “Know thyself.” Of course when I wrote of coping and understanding it wasn’t in the context of knowing thyself, it was in the context of species and subspecies. Human beings who believe they are a different species distinct from other human beings do not know themselves and are thereby diminished. Moreover their misunderstanding of even what species they are who and else it includes is dangerous for themselves and for everyone within their reach.
I'm going to hone in on the last thing you said because it kind of sums up my problem with your points in general...you say "Either belief only serves to diminish his power to understand and cope with the world" I say "I will never understand how a belief in what one is or what one is not can diminish one's "power" You say, "Neither will I." then blah blah Socrates quote, blah blah. But I wonder.... if you dont understand either....then...how could....I just dont know, to me this is a 180 that youre trying to justify with the 2 word quote of some famous dead guy. Lol, like "Shit happens" And then you say "Human beings who believe they are a different species distinct from other human beings do not know themselves and are thereby diminished."Lol Is there a precedent for this? Or is this something new you came up with just for macB? I mean, this is a huge statement to be making and you seem so sure. shit it sounds like the beggining of some doctrine. "Moreover their misunderstanding of even what species they are who and else it includes is dangerous for themselves and for everyone within their reach." I flat out disagree. and even if i didnt disagree with the content i disagree with the logic.

a personal statement of independent truth? how bout a truth he has arrived at independently, does that make more sense? I'll give you an example, one u wont find in a book, when i was young i went to catholic school. after the nuns first lesson about God and the creation story, I asked, well, if god made all this, who made God? I was 6 and my 1st grade teacher did not know what to say. she said thats a great question, one i should ask the resident priest. So I did. i was so sure he would have the answer that when he paused and stuttered a little bit i was shocked. I dont remember what answer he gave today because I dismissed it as soon as i heard it. I knew it was bullshit even back then. i vividly remember thinkin, "he doesnt know" which inevitably led me to the thought: "nobody knows"
That is a truth I arrived at independently when I was 6 and one that has stayed with me for 20 years. i say i arrived at it independently because no one taught me that. No one cosigned it. I was so young and there were no societal factors pressuring me to think a certain way or influencing my thought. only child like curiosity.

I know youre not questioning the validity of cross cultural borrowings, if anything you are its proponent. Nor do I think that macB is its opponent, I see nothing that hes written to suggest that...what you did was point out to MacB that he borrows culture the same as everyone else, therefore this whole secret philosophy hes arrived at is....is what? is actually by the transitive property borrowed as well? is what? Null and void? Idk but i'm done filling in the obvious blanks only to have you do a 180 when the point is not implied but stated.

And yes, you mentioned weaving and food preservation and the fucking beatles and all that jazz. I focused on hunting because it seemed to me the most essential to actual life. And it most explicitly demonstrated my point which was that yes we have shared but it hasnt been pretty. we've crashed into each other not cross pollenated and many lives have been lost as a result. period. no need to get into historical details because thats the grand summary. the only real question is has all this bloodshed been worth it? are we at peace? Has progress saved more lives than lost? thats the point of your weaving and food preservation, is it not? are you happy with your iphone and your twitter and your cable tv and your frozen pizzas? Lol, this is cross pollenation and as its proponent, I would hope that you are. I hope somebody is. Aint nothing wrong with being happy in the time youve been given.
But as for myself I must fall back. I dont know what macB's original intentions were really. and even though I'm black; cant say i care. But I appreciate the originality of the thread. And i always appreciate a good book recommendation.

[broncofan]

I think part of what she is saying is that if one is truly a separatist, by holding to this philosophy they are imposing major limitations on themselves. They no longer have at their disposal the useful things developed by other cultures.

There have been major atrocities committed against people from many different backgrounds and for sure this is something that has caused tremendous collective suffering. But the answer to that is not imposed separation or quasi-psychotic theories about human beings being divided into multiple species. It is also not an answer to claim as proprietary the inventions of people who happen to come from the same part of the Earth as you.

With the exception of patent laws, these inventions eventually fall into the public domain and benefit everyone because they serve as the basis of further inventions. And yes, the things that have been invented are useful. Insofar as you are using them and communicating on them, you at least have to concede the benefits they provide. You can't on the one hand decry their cost and on the other accept all of their benefits without the least bit of self-awareness.

[broncofan]

and even though I'm black; cant say i care. But I appreciate the originality of the thread. And i always appreciate a good book recommendation.
If you stick around longer you'll see it's not that original. Lots of people start threads not meant for everyone and whose meaning is unclear.;

[trish]

...you say "Human beings who believe they are a different species distinct from other human beings do not know themselves and are thereby diminished."Lol Is there a precedent for this?Yes. Several. Think about it.


I know youre not questioning the validity of cross cultural borrowings, if anything you are its proponent. Nor do I think that macB is its opponent, I see nothing that hes written to suggest that...And so I would have no motivation to claim that someone's use of a cultural tool (regardless of its source) is illegitimate.

mac B. says, “I am not neanderthal. But if I were part of the group of people who were then I would accept the fact that this is who I was and the cultural practices associated with my past. I wouldn't look at another peoples customs as being superior to my own and I would just live as I feel I'm supposed to- in a manner that brings me happiness and comfort.”

This statement seems to me to be the antithesis of a proposal that we actively exchange knowledge, crafts and practices from each other. If we judge French wine to be superior to ours why should we not study their grape horticulture and wine making processes? If we come to believe some spiritual beliefs are superior to our own, why shouldn’t we adopt them? Perhaps I misread mac B.’s meaning, but I take him to be saying that adopting the practices of others, or even regarding them as possibly superior to our own is a betrayal of ourselves, our tribe, nation or “species.” His position, to my ear, sounds like a plea for racial or cultural purity. Again I may be wrong. You think I am. It remains for mac B. to clarify these points, if he can.


the only real question is has all this bloodshed been worth it? are we at peace? Has progress saved more lives than lost? thats the point of your weaving and food preservation, is it not? The point of weaving is to keep warm, invent dyes, create patterns. The point of language is to strategize, warn, keep oral records, weave stories, organize our thoughts. The point of pottery is to carry grain, oil, water, wine, hold a diner, display an image, display a series of images, a story. Paper is used for....(I’ll let you improvise the list). Is exchanging our artifacts, our stories with one another worth it? I don’t know. I personally wouldn’t have sent the Crusades into the Persia just so they can bring back Euclid for me to read. But I do appreciate Euclid and hold his writings dear. Is exchanging our artifacts and stories worth it? Someone told be a story recently, about a boy who had a question for his Priest...

[muh_muh]

trish i know you enjoy arguing a lot but dont you think your time would be better spent arguing something that matters instead of an incoherent, illogical theory that isnt even articulated properly with zero relvance to the world that will never influence anybody but one - in the grand scheme of things - utterly insignificant individual?

[trish]

Okay, you got a point; but I thought I was just this far away from discovering a new hominid species.

[broncofan]

^^ If that's directed at me Trish, I'm at least twice that big. No need to exaggerate just to make a point:D

[muh_muh]

to his credit i guess he did point out (even though im fairly certain that he didnt intend to nor understands that he did) that in biology the word species is surprisingly ill defined
Species problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem)
well either that or that neanderthals werent a species but a subspecies since to my knowledge they did apparently interbreed with homo sapiens and we still carry some neanderthal dna in us

although i probably shouldnt have said this since this will only enforce his silly theory

[trish]

I was amazed when I first learned that were thought to be two distinct species of Arctic Gulls were linked by interbreeding varieties dispersed around the Arctic Circle so that indeed taxonomists now regard the two as one. One difficulty in drawing the boundary derives from the fact that if you go back far enough any two animals from the same genus share a common ancestor, perhaps of the same genus, perhaps not.

Okay Bronco, you got me. I wasn't really that close to discovering a new hominid species. I was this far away->

[fred41]

...and for the record - If an individual is a couple of I.Q. points away from being an absolute moron, then sharing DNA with a once noble species, a powerful group of space aliens, or angels from heaven...doesn't change the fact that the individual is still a couple of I.Q. points away from being an absolute moron.

Unfortunately individuals who are a couple of I.Q. points away from being absolute morons never see themselves as such.

[fred41]

....and if anyone thought that was rude...don't blame me, it was my neanderthal up bringing.

[soulvett]

Yes, as a race of beings. Besides the Nephilim there were a few who willingly stayed and survived that were a product of interbreeding, not just our ancestors in particular.

But this is all a moot point. Part of the punishment for our acts, or karma being a bitch, was that most of the previous knowledge is gone, save for the relics, stories and world maps given to the early explorers who had no idea how to properly navigate the globe. Various old Tribes have it but can't or wont do anything with it, and you are correct in that many of us are kept distracted, doped up and our minds locked down.

Besides, I can understand why Mac.B is taking this approach. Everyone can ask a question, only a few really want to hear the answer.

[trish]

Question: Why didn't the Nephilim drown in the flood?
Answer: You don't want to know. You can't handle the truth!

(oops! I seem to have gotten my cards shuffled. That was the answer to "Did you order the code red?"...sorry)

[Stavros]

What's in a name?

MALCOLM X: WHO ARE YOU? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_30NWhC09Rs)

[trish]

Malcolm asks, “Who are you?” A string of co-related questions come tumbling after. There is a sense in which many of us are orphans in this world with no knowable claim on any family in the "motherlands." Identity is not only a question of place and history, but also (among others) a question of using the tools available to demand and procure recognition and equality within society at large. It is not a retreat into subcultures and segregated neighborhoods.

Thanks for the clip Stavros.

[Stavros]

Malcolm asks, “Who are you?” A string of co-related questions come tumbling after. There is a sense in which many of us are orphans in this world with no knowable claim on any family in the "motherlands." Identity is not only a question of place and history, but also (among others) a question of using the tools available to demand and procure recognition and equality within society at large. It is not a retreat into subcultures and segregated neighborhoods.

Thanks for the clip Stavros.

This is I think the weakness in MalcomX's discourse. A brilliant speaker, and such a pity he wasted his life on a crook like Elijah Mohammed. Anderson's concept of the 'Imagined Community' seems to be relevant in these days when something called Nationalism makes such bold claims for recognition -of what?
Imagined communities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_communities)

[trish]

When I used the word “recognition” I meant that society needs to recognize inequality before it can take steps toward equality. But, yes, there is the sort of recognition of a common community that comes with nationalism.

Anderson and his Imagined Community is new to me. Interesting article. Curious, because before you posted the Anderson link (with all the talk of Nephilim, species and whatever mac B. was on about) I was thinking that the notion of Fantasy Communities (one more level removed from Imagined Communities) might be appropriate to the discussions in this thread.

The Wikipedia article on Anderson paints Imagined Communities rather negatively (I think), though I often find appeals to such communities as beneficial; e.g. the transgender community, the community of astrophysicists, etc. Interesting idea too about how Nationalism got its big break with the advent of “printing press capitalism.” Now we can all be pamphleteers and “publish” our thoughts to a wide public on the internet. What Imagined Communities will we spawn? Hung Angels and Admirers?