Streaming Only Sites... Why?

[saifan]

Just signed up over at a site that has a new Vaniity scene. I was a member earlier in the year and thought the site was great and the video downloads looked super. signing back up the first thing I noticed was that the site is now streaming only. What a pain in the ass. The Grooby sites are "world class" in the transsexual porn industry and they offer downloads so why do inferior sites think this is an option that they shouldn't offer?

[Ben in LA]

Two words: TUBE SITES.

Bob's Tgirls recently had an update featuring Penny Tyler. No more than two hours after I saw that update on the site, I saw the same video clip on "The Hammie". (It has since been taken down).

Streaming-only makes such actions just a bit more difficult.

[saifan]

Two words: TUBE SITES.

Bob's Tgirls recently had an update featuring Penny Tyler. No more than two hours after I saw that update on the site, I saw the same video clip on "The Hammie". (It has since been taken down).

Streaming-only makes such actions just a bit more difficult.


I understand that yeah, but it's only difficult for the average Joe.

[GroobySteven]

I understand that yeah, but it's only difficult for the average Joe.

And that's the issue Saifan. The average Joe ISN'T downloading and uploading to a tube site. A pirate who makes a living from stealing content and uploading to a tube site does know how to download the content anyway (and a quick google will show you how to do it).
Streaming content in it's current format doesn't work as a deterrant, if anything it pisses people off.
I will put this out there though. Once a system becomes available that either allows streaming only OR download but for limited views (or only when you are a member) that isn't piratable, that is going to become the norm.
Not everybody is like you - and puts some money in the pot every once in a while.

[nysprod]

And that's the issue Saifan. The average Joe ISN'T downloading and uploading to a tube site. A pirate who makes a living from stealing content and uploading to a tube site does know how to download the content anyway (and a quick google will show you how to do it).
Streaming content in it's current format doesn't work as a deterrant, if anything it pisses people off.
I will put this out there though. Once a system becomes available that either allows streaming only OR download but for limited views (or only when you are a member) that isn't piratable, that is going to become the norm.
Not everybody is like you - and puts some money in the pot every once in a while.

There was an interesting (to me, since I really don't know much of anything about the porn business) article in the NY Times yesterday regarding how big camming is getting...they mentioned Live Jasmin with like 30M unique views/month and that cams could be a billion dollar/year industry.

Then the article mentioned Pornhub, which I had never heard of, in the context that producers are loading some of their content to the site with the goal being to drive traffic to cam/adult dating sites.

Point being that producers are branching out to live content because people want it and are paying for it...and obviously, it can't be pirated.

One thing that was said about camming is that the best money is being made by performers who are able to connect with their audience...in other words, it's not just sex...apparently, it's also about companionship.

So maybe live performance is the way to go, especially when there is interaction between performers and their audience.

[Wendy Summers]

So maybe live performance is the way to go, especially when there is interaction between performers and their audience.

Porn and webcam are two totally different beasts - being able to succeed in one doesn't guarantee success in the other. Webcam is hella cheaper to produce, that's for sure.

[Jericho]

Point being that producers are branching out to live content because people want it and are paying for it...and obviously, it can't be pirated.

Of course it can.
If it's on your screen, it can be recorded. :shrug

[nysprod]

Of course it can.
If it's on your screen, it can be recorded. :shrug

Yes, but as the article said, people want the live interaction and not just a sex show per se.



Porn and webcam are two totally different beasts - being able to succeed in one doesn't guarantee success in the other. Webcam is hella cheaper to produce, that's for sure.

I think camming will progress to actually being a live sex show...like what you see in a video, just live...and there will be interaction between the performers and audience.

[Jericho]

That must be right then...The article said so!

To play Devils Advocate for a moment...

Most live cams are shite.
Copy them, edit them, cut to the chase...I'm thinking that's what most consumers of porn want.

But what do i know, I'm just a pervert. :shrug

[maxpower]

Streaming-only video is the sole reason that I've never joined TGirl Pinups, even though their content looks pretty great. I understand that site owners have to protect against piracy and tube uploading, but I always pay for memberships, and have joined numerous sites multiple times over the years, and don't feel I should be penalized because of the wrong actions of others. I wonder if websites consider the business they are losing because they are streaming only, and weigh it against potential loss from piracy. And if streaming-only/limited download does become the norm all around, I will probably no longer join any websites, and do without.

[Jericho]

I think camming will progress to actually being a live sex show...like what you see in a video, just live...and there will be interaction between the performers and audience.

You want a live sex show...Go visit Cam4...There's a couple of hundred every week (hell, I've done one or two myself)...And the majority are shite! :shrug

[nysprod]

You want a live sex show...Go visit Cam4...There's a couple of hundred every week (hell, I've done one or two myself)...And the majority are shite! :shrug

I'm talking about a real producer taking their models live...like a real rock band going on tour vs. a garage band playing the local bar.



That must be right then...The article said so!

To play Devils Advocate for a moment...

Most live cams are shite.
Copy them, edit them, cut to the chase...I'm thinking that's what most consumers of porn want.

But what do i know, I'm just a pervert. :shrug

It's really about the interaction, according to what the article seems to be saying...from my own experience, I've looked at some very hot tgirls on chaturbate...problem is, the ones i find hot are from Columbia and they don't speak English...so the interaction is very limited and it gets boring.

[Jericho]

I'm talking about a real producer taking their models live...like a real rock band going on tour vs. a garage band playing the local bar.

Ha, lol, ok, nice analogy, points for that one! :dead-1:

[Michelle Firestone]

Once a system becomes available that either allows streaming only OR download but for limited views (or only when you are a member) that isn't piratable, that is going to become the norm.

That's impossible though. As long as the content is viewable its piratable. Even if there was proprietary hardware & software that was 100% unhackable, people would set up sophisticated telesync studios in their homes to rip it.

The only truly unpiratable alternative that I can imagine would be pre-funded content from a crowdfunding system like kickstarter. A lot of musicians are already doing it with success. There's at least one site out there doing it for porn already, Offbeatr.com, but it looks pretty shitty and there's a lot of unnecessary rules the content creators have to follow.

In the future, I see major porn companies developing their own in-house crowdfunding sites with lots of different options to fund the content, a lot like how the Peace Corps take donations. Peace Corps allows you to donate money to specific projects around the world, specific causes (like HIV, hunger, malaria, war refugees) or it can be a general donation to any/all projects within a specific country, or a straight up contribution to be used for anything.

I bet it will be like that for porn (and all content really) in the future. With porn, I imagine the supporters could fund things like a specific pic/video set that is completely pre-planned out, or choose from different genres/styles that the company produces. Or fund their favorite performers and photo/videographers even.

Then once a goal is reached, the content is created, and distributed to the supporters along with other rewards based on how much they funded. Like, if you donate >$1000, you get a prop from the scene, the outfits, or a hardcopy Blu-Ray signed by the performers. Then lower tiers could a signed poster print of a photo from the set, extra bonus footage in their copy, their name in the credits, or whatever you could think of.

If that became the norm, there would still be piracy, but it wouldn't really matter since the company got the $$$ upfront.

[Jericho]

problem is, the ones i find hot are from Columbia and they don't speak English...so the interaction is very limited and it gets boring.

In that case, you're just going to have to bite the bullet and learn Spanish...You'll have all the interaction you like! :shrug

[Michelle Firestone]

I think camming will progress to actually being a live sex show...like what you see in a video, just live...and there will be interaction between the performers and audience.

I've tried to get that going, since you can have couple/group accounts on livejasmin and most other sites, but I've never been able to find someone that I want to let into my home who is professional/reliable enough. I even wanted to get a 3rd person involved to man the camera so it doesn't even feel like a webcam show anymore (but you still get the special interaction). Then set the per minute charge to maximum. The idea being they'll pay max for it since it would be such a rare/professional camshow.

But yea... even if I could get that together, splitting the profit between 3 ppl, even if the camera guy gets less, it probably wouldn't be much better for me than just going solo anyway. It would be cool though.

[nysprod]

I've tried to get that going, since you can have couple/group accounts on livejasmin and most other sites, but I've never been able to find someone that I want to let into my home who is professional/reliable enough. I even wanted to get a 3rd person involved to man the camera so it doesn't even feel like a webcam show anymore (but you still get the special interaction). Then set the per minute charge to maximum. The idea being they'll pay max for it since it would be such a rare/professional camshow.

But yea... even if I could get that together, splitting the profit between 3 ppl, even if the camera guy gets less, it probably wouldn't be much better for me than just going solo anyway. It would be cool though.

Well, I think you Michelle would be a perfect one to take this to a higher level...if you follow the model the article somewhat talked about, you do some regular porn...then what you want is for clips from those scenes uploaded to as many sites as possible...then you're a known porn star and then you go live.

It's like what music is now, where recorded songs are more of a promotional vehicle for live shows...not that there's no money in recorded music, but the real money these days is in touring.

[Ben in LA]

I know for a FACT Kink uploads samples of their clips to tube sites...

[nysprod]

I know for a FACT Kink uploads samples of their clips to tube sites...

They all do...all these producers upload to Pornhub...and what happens as soon as you click on something? Live Jasmin pops up. They're driving traffic to live sites.

[Michelle Firestone]

Well, I think you Michelle would be a perfect one to take this to a higher level...if you follow the model the article somewhat talked about, you do some regular porn...then what you want is for clips from those scenes uploaded to as many sites as possible...then you're a known porn star and then you go live.

It's like what music is now, where recorded songs are more of a promotional vehicle for live shows...not that there's no money in recorded music, but the real money these days is in touring.

Thank you! & yea that's a natural way to get more exposure to your cam I suppose. Since my sets went up I've been getting a few LJ members who say they loved me on shemaleyum/shemalexxx, and some were already regulars before I did any porn. They said they were on Yum & were like "Hey I know her already" I imagine that type of thing drives more people to visit me on cam.

Typically though, that kind of promotional attitude isn't going to help you as a cammer I don't think... Like you might as well just cam more to get exposure. Like even doing porn, if I spent all the time that went into the set on camming instead, I'd have made more $$$. Yea it's got me more exposure, but I already have a surplus of members on livejasmin. Plus, pre-porn, like the only way to see me naked was through my cam, so I wonder how many wouldn't pay for a show now because there's video of me out there.

So I did & continue to do porn b/c I want to. It's way more fun than camming, it interests me, and it challenges me in different ways than camming.

[nysprod]

Thank you! & yea that's a natural way to get more exposure to your cam I suppose. Since my sets went up I've been getting a few LJ members who say they loved me on shemaleyum/shemalexxx, and some were already regulars before I did any porn. They said they were on Yum & were like "Hey I know her already" I imagine that type of thing drives more people to visit me on cam.

Typically though, that kind of promotional attitude isn't going to help you as a cammer I don't think... Like you might as well just cam more to get exposure. Like even doing porn, if I spent all the time that went into the set on camming instead, I'd have made more $$$. Yea it's got me more exposure, but I already have a surplus of members on livejasmin. Plus, pre-porn, like the only way to see me naked was through my cam, so I wonder how many wouldn't pay for a show now because there's video of me out there.



The more video out there, the better, if it's used to drive traffic to a cam...and it's not just about the show, people can catch free clips all the time, there's no putting that genie back into the bottle...it's the interaction.

[Michelle Firestone]

Ya but if I already have more than enough members to keep me in private for the time I put in online, then as a cammer, I don't truly NEED the extra exposure to meet financial goals. I want more exposure to progress myself as a pornstar, not as a cammer... Don't read that the wrong way tho.. I'll always be a cammer too & I'm passionate about both things.

[Ben in LA]

They all do...all these producers upload to Pornhub...and what happens as soon as you click on something? Live Jasmin pops up. They're driving traffic to live sites.

I can't stand those pop ups...but they've gotta make that money...

[nysprod]

Ya but if I already have more than enough members to keep me in private for the time I put in online, then as a cammer, I don't truly NEED the extra exposure to meet financial goals. I want more exposure to progress myself as a pornstar, not as a cammer... Don't read that the wrong way tho.. I'll always be a cammer too & I'm passionate about both things.

Glad to see you're doing well, and continued success!

[LilyRox]

I think camming will progress to actually being a live sex show...like what you see in a video, just live...and there will be interaction between the performers and audience.

It already is in some ways. I've seen professional cam set ups by pornstars that use camera guys to shoot them. Though these were solo scenes they are as professional as possible* and they would interact with the viewers. The only difference is it wasn't a group sex and was more toy and positioning stuff, but still the same idea. There are many problems with this though.

No matter how good technology becomes and how good webcams get, the equipment set ups will never be as good as a edited material. Even if you have multiple camera guys shit happens when you're live (preparing for anal), you can't edit out the stuff, and that stuff can sometimes dull the scene. Another thing you have to think about is the camera guy having nearly no interaction during the ENTIRE show. This is a huge problem. It's not like you can shoot a couple mins, cut, tell your model what to do and continue rolling. It all has to be live and on cue with the model basically ignoring the camera guy the entire time (unless it's going to be one of those douche camera guys that doesn't shut the fuck up when the camera's rolling). The other main huge thing to think about is nervousness. When you shoot a scene with a model and she's shy because of camera's or the camera guy you can edit that shit out later, you can't do that live. Every sec of it is going to be caught on camera, every stutter and mess up (which by the way is probably in a studio and not the comfort and privacy of your own home).

I think it might be something tried more in the future, but to be honest live quality can never be as good as edited. That goes with anything. Music, Photography, Television, etc. When it comes to pirating, live is the only real edge against it. When it comes time to do stuff like this in the industry, it won't because producer's in the industry want to do it, it will be because they HAVE to do it if they want to make any real money. It will come to the point where a lower quality of shooting live scenes makes more money than high quality edited porn just because of the simple fact of not only pirating, but the thousands of other porn companies competing head to head in the high quality edited porn industry.

Supply > Demand

[dc_guy_75]

if you donate >$1000, you get a prop from the scene, the outfits, or a hardcopy Blu-Ray signed by the performers...

I haven't bought a blue-ray since the last time I bought a stamp: 4 or 5 years ago.

Good idea though.

There should be a "Netlix or HboGo: for porn, all the porn you want for a flat fee.

[Wendy Summers]

Thank you! & yea that's a natural way to get more exposure to your cam I suppose. Since my sets went up I've been getting a few LJ members who say they loved me on shemaleyum/shemalexxx, and some were already regulars before I did any porn. They said they were on Yum & were like "Hey I know her already" I imagine that type of thing drives more people to visit me on cam.

Typically though, that kind of promotional attitude isn't going to help you as a cammer I don't think... Like you might as well just cam more to get exposure. Like even doing porn, if I spent all the time that went into the set on camming instead, I'd have made more $$$. Yea it's got me more exposure, but I already have a surplus of members on livejasmin. Plus, pre-porn, like the only way to see me naked was through my cam, so I wonder how many wouldn't pay for a show now because there's video of me out there.

So I did & continue to do porn b/c I want to. It's way more fun than camming, it interests me, and it challenges me in different ways than camming.

Promoting webcam properly can work amazingly well, but it's different than promoting porn. You're right: if folks simply want to see you naked they'll find your porn, but the best webcam models get that webcam isn't about looks, it's about interaction - about forging a connection with your viewer whether for 1 minute or 1 hour. A free free pics showcasing your looks and personality can do wonders. Brief videos showcasing your personality can help too. Don't discount the value of pics of you in your daily life.

Another thing - if you're not doing it already, you should be joining Live Jasmin's affiliate program and make sure any links you provide to your webcam include those codes so you get credit for the traffic you send to them.

[Wendy Summers]

Ya but if I already have more than enough members to keep me in private for the time I put in online, then as a cammer, I don't truly NEED the extra exposure to meet financial goals. I want more exposure to progress myself as a pornstar, not as a cammer... Don't read that the wrong way tho.. I'll always be a cammer too & I'm passionate about both things.

If your utilization rate (portion of time spent in paid chat divided by total time spent on webcam) is greater than 70%, you might want to consider raising your prices. In my experience I've found the break times between paid cam sessions allows me to cam for much longer periods of time. While you will lose some fans with a price increase, the incremental revenue of a price increase should cover the loss and the longer overall webcam time will increase your overall income. This might not be the right path for you, but you might want to see if it makes sense for what you do.

[VictoriaVeil]

Porn and webcam are two totally different beasts - being able to succeed in one doesn't guarantee success in the other. Webcam is hella cheaper to produce, that's for sure.

Werd.

[blackchubby38]

I haven't bought a blue-ray since the last time I bought a stamp: 4 or 5 years ago.

Good idea though.

There should be a "Netlix or HboGo: for porn, all the porn you want for a flat fee.

I totally agree with you. I also think there should be a Itunes for porn. Where you can purchase individual scenes and/or entire movies for a fair price.


Streaming-only video is the sole reason that I've never joined TGirl Pinups, even though their content looks pretty great. I understand that site owners have to protect against piracy and tube uploading, but I always pay for memberships, and have joined numerous sites multiple times over the years, and don't feel I should be penalized because of the wrong actions of others. I wonder if websites consider the business they are losing because they are streaming only, and weigh it against potential loss from piracy. And if streaming-only/limited download does become the norm all around, I will probably no longer join any websites, and do without.

I feel the same way about streaming-only video and I also understand why its done. I probably would also still sign up for sites if it did become the norm.

But if it does become the norm, than whatever player the site(s) use better work consistently. And if there are issues, then the site's technical support better be able to solve those issues. Instead of just giving you a check list on how you can solve it yourself in the FAQ section. AEBN, I'm looking right at you.

[lifeisfiction]

Steaming only content can be downloaded. If the file is a playable format it can be downloaded. Hell even youtube videos are downloaded to your computer. Just check your temp downloaded internet files and you will see the videos have been saved. No matter what format, if someone wants to pirate it they will.

I give Valve major credit for dropping game pirate down a lot and what they did to do so was amazing. You just have to give them a better alternative not to pirate.

[saifan]

Now this is some great customer service.

In reply to my e-mail questioning the change to streaming only:

"we don't offer downloads. You can real our Legal Information.
13. Disclaimer
USER UNDERSTANDS THAT *****.COM (http://TRANS500.COM) DON'T OFFER DOWNLOADS.

Please contact me if you need any help.
Greetings


Fran"

Goodbye and good riddance.

[TSPornFan]

Two words: TUBE SITES.

Bob's Tgirls recently had an update featuring Penny Tyler. No more than two hours after I saw that update on the site, I saw the same video clip on "The Hammie". (It has since been taken down).

Streaming-only makes such actions just a bit more difficult.

I strongly disagree with you Ben in LA. It is so easy for anybody to download videos from stream-only sites. There is an app for just this type of situation. In fact I just joined a site and I'm downloading the videos in HD. I won't be uploading them to any illegal sites. They're for my personal use of course. :jerkoff

I've noticed many videos from stream-only sites that are on tube sites.

Owners are lying to themselves for believing that stream-only content will slow down pirates.

[Ben in LA]

I strongly disagree with you Ben in LA. It is so easy for anybody to download videos from stream-only sites. There is an app for just this type of situation. In fact I just joined a site and I'm downloading the videos in HD. I won't be uploading them to any illegal sites. They're for my personal use of course. :jerkoff

I've noticed many videos from stream-only sites that are on tube sites.

Owners are lying to themselves for believing that stream-only content will slow down pirates.

Had to spill the beans, huh? I already KNEW you could. If it's online, there's a way to get it. If not, believe me someone is working on it.

It's like when folks complain when they can't play flash files on an iPad. Actually you can...if you're willing to do a little research.

[Wendy Summers]

I give Valve major credit for dropping game pirate down a lot and what they did to do so was amazing. You just have to give them a better alternative not to pirate.

Part of the reason I'm using Grooby to distribute my content on the web is I feel like they're taking a similar positioning. Downloads, ease of use of the websites and their active approach with DCMAs.