Ps4 or xbox one and most anticipated games ?

[coolboyaaa]

PS4 OR XBOX ONE ?AND WHATS THE MOST ANTICIPATED GAMES ?
1) division
2) ufc
3) destiny
4)the order

whats yours?

[GroobyKrissy]

Xbox One... And Titanfall looks good to me.

[up_for_it]

I'd say PS 4, and BF 4, can't wait to drop that skyscraper on China Rising!

[rockabilly]

PS4 if i decide to upgrade

[tsmirandameadows]

Neither: PC. And the best game ever is already out for it :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwqGsxc-_hQ

[Gillian]

That does look seriously cool ... :)

Having turned to the console side (PS3), this might just swing back to the PC.

[dderek123]

Borderlands 2 for PC is keeping me busy. Looks awesome running on a 60" LCD in my living room!

After this though I think I'll check out an RTS for PC. Console games are alright but PC graphics and the ability to tinker with everything is fun. It's like lego for adult nerds.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/138758.jpg

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/4585593+_b5ca0a1caf85007a2807c6b2b0c2a292.jpg

[GroobyKrissy]

The specs on the One and PS4 are pretty much computers... no? I mean obviously, a home-build is going to have more computing power but I'm guessing that most people are still on dual-cores with a few quads scattered in?

I've actually got both a One and PS4 on reserve. I switch back and forth but with the addition of Blu-Ray to the One, I'll probably be leaning on it more than my PS4. I hate the PS controllers because my massive meat hands make it feel like a Lego.

[LibertyHarkness]

the one with the roman game / ryse looks great game :)

i will most likely end up with both consoles at some point lol but for now i will keep my xbox 360 and get a PS4 most likely for a difference ..

[dderek123]

The specs on the One and PS4 are pretty much computers... no? I mean obviously, a home-build is going to have more computing power but I'm guessing that most people are still on dual-cores with a few quads scattered in?

I've actually got both a One and PS4 on reserve. I switch back and forth but with the addition of Blu-Ray to the One, I'll probably be leaning on it more than my PS4. I hate the PS controllers because my massive meat hands make it feel like a Lego.

Yeah the specs are really hot stuff when the consoles first launch. But PCs quickly surpass them if we're talking high end performance PCs. And that's not taking into account the overclocking you can do with your hardware. Overclocking is fun and totally worth it; if you bought the damn thing you should be able to do what you want with it.

I like the fact that you can use a PC for more than just gaming. Also you can repurpose a PC easily when you replace it. Most people are rocking dual cores but PC gamers are not most people. And quad cores will probably become the norm eventually.

I'll admit, it's a bit of an unfair comparison though. The PS4 is 399.99 and I'm not sure what the One sells for but they're less than half the cost of a kickbutt PC so I'm a bit biased.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Steam...+PC+MASTER+RACE+.+No+sales+are+as+powerful +as+steam_788d2d_4322194.jpg

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5872273&d=1371374959

[GroobyKrissy]

Yeah the specs are really hot stuff when the consoles first launch. But PCs quickly surpass them if we're talking high end performance PCs. And that's not taking into account the overclocking you can do with your hardware. Overclocking is fun and totally worth it; if you bought the damn thing you should be able to do what you want with it.

I like the fact that you can use a PC for more than just gaming. Also you can repurpose a PC easily when you replace it. Most people are rocking dual cores but PC gamers are not most people. And quad cores will probably become the norm eventually.

I'll admit, it's a bit of an unfair comparison though. The PS4 is 399.99 and I'm not sure what the One sells for but they're less than half the cost of a kickbutt PC so I'm a bit biased.

Basic One is going to launch at $499.00.

This is all fine and dandy... MY point is... WHO has the cash to keep their computers updated these days? I would venture a guess that even most "hardcore" gamers aren't spending hundreds of dollars every other month to keep up with current technology. The fact is, these next gen consoles are actually probably on par or surpass what most casual gamers have for PC's and probably equal to systems that some "hardcore" gamers have too.

I am fortunate enough to keep my PC pretty up to date (i7 Hex, 24GB RAM, Dual nVidia 650, etc.) but that is because I do 3D photo and video editing and other junk. So comparatively, yeah.... a console doesn't even begin to compete with my system. That being said, I've never been radically disappointed by a ported game, graphically or otherwise.

I've always been a PC gamer (as well as console), but I mostly play strategy games on PC. I just find it amusing when people bag on consoles for graphics power, computing power, etc. etc. when consoles have basically become computers without modding capability (unless you know what you're doing).

Quad cores becoming the norm eventually...? Ummm... catch up. Already there. Hex cores are even pretty commonplace now. Quad cores have been in most systems for the past year.

PC users just dislike console gaming... just because, and computing power is the often cited case. Next gen consoles though... doubtful that many casual gamers have systems as powerful. More utilitarian as you suggest, yes. More powerful...? Debatable.

[dderek123]

Basic One is going to launch at $499.00.

This is all fine and dandy... MY point is... WHO has the cash to keep their computers updated these days? I would venture a guess that even most "hardcore" gamers aren't spending hundreds of dollars every other month to keep up with current technology. The fact is, these next gen consoles are actually probably on par or surpass what most casual gamers have for PC's and probably equal to systems that some "hardcore" gamers have too.

I am fortunate enough to keep my PC pretty up to date (i7 Hex, 24GB RAM, Dual nVidia 650, etc.) but that is because I do 3D photo and video editing and other junk. So comparatively, yeah.... a console doesn't even begin to compete with my system. That being said, I've never been radically disappointed by a ported game, graphically or otherwise.

I've always been a PC gamer (as well as console), but I mostly play strategy games on PC. I just find it amusing when people bag on consoles for graphics power, computing power, etc. etc. when consoles have basically become computers without modding capability (unless you know what you're doing).

PC users just dislike console gaming... just because and computing power is the often cited case. Next gen consoles though... doubtful that many casual gamers have systems as powerful.

Well if we're only talking about casual gamer you're absolutely right. Even though they are many more casual gamers than otherwise there are still plenty of PC gamers out there rocking quadcores and forking out lots of money. Of course a $500 to $800 laptop won't keep up with a console. Personally, I usually build a system once every three years or so. So I'm not really on the cutting edge.

http://cryotank.net/uploads/humorblog/pcgamer01.jpg

From another forum:
"When you buy a console such as the PS4 it will come with a static set of hardware that developers will specifically design their games to run.

These optimizations will make games run very well and look good for the first 2 years, and then give 4-6 more years of life to the console.

With a gaming PC, developers have to make sure games run on a large array of hardware out there, not just one set of hardware.

The PS4 will likely be 1080p with x2 AA if lucky and 60fps. A game that is optimized for a weaker card can run better than a more powerful card that isn't optimized if that makes sense to you."

Using those speculated specs as an example 1080p with x2 AA at 60 fps has already been surpassed a long time ago. So yeah PC gamers can bag on consoles all they want. Then there's the modding capability which is really really neat (lego for adult nerds).

But, people can be perfectly happy playing on consoles. However other people have fun is cool with me. I'm posting all these memes because i find it slightly humourous and I'm a fan of PC gaming. Just kidding around.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well if we're only talking about casual gamer you're absolutely right. Even though they are many more casual gamers than otherwise there are still plenty of PC gamers out there rocking quadcores and forking out lots of money. Of course a $500 to $800 laptop won't keep up with a console. Personally, I usually build a system once every three years or so. So I'm not really on the cutting edge.


From another forum:
"When you buy a console such as the PS4 it will come with a static set of hardware that developers will specifically design their games to run.

These optimizations will make games run very well and look good for the first 2 years, and then give 4-6 more years of life to the console.

With a gaming PC, developers have to make sure games run on a large array of hardware out there, not just one set of hardware.

The PS4 will likely be 1080p with x2 AA if lucky and 60fps. A game that is optimized for a weaker card can run better than a more powerful card that isn't optimized if that makes sense to you."

Using those speculated specs as an example 1080p with x2 AA at 60 fps has already been surpassed a long time ago. So yeah PC gamers can bag on consoles all they want. Then there's the modding capability which is really really neat (lego for adult nerds).

But, people can be perfectly happy playing on consoles. However other people have fun is cool with me. I'm posting all these memes because i find it slightly humourous and I'm a fan of PC gaming. Just kidding around.

BUT...

Honestly... how much more realism can you expect as a gamer before you're actually a holograph inside a game?

I have plenty of friends who are HARDCORE (we're talking Falcon machines) PC gamers. A long while ago, just as a little test to some of them, I played around with FPS and showed them examples. Almost NONE of them could differentiate between FPS differences lower than about 10... shocking for all their talk about FPS this... FPS that.

It is like the "blindfold Pepsi / Coke" test. Lots of people LOVE to theorize and talk but I would bet that if you took 30 seconds of video from a console in HD and 30 seconds of video from a PC at standard "high" settings, less than 20% of "gamers" could accurately tell the difference.

Anyway, I'm all for PC gaming. Like I said, I use it for strategy games because I hate lag time when I'm playing someone and there are 10,000 things going on in the screen. Casually and comfort-wise though, nothing beats curling up on the couch and playing on a console.

[philipsfrog]

I have to go with the PS4, out of the launch games i'm most looking forward to Knack however later down the line I want to pick up The Evil Within, Infamous: Second Son, Octodad: Dadliest Catch, Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! and The Order: 1886

[GroobyKrissy]

I will admit this though... games like Crysis and Farcry... after playing them on a PC... the console versions sucked. Still entertaining but graphically... not even close. But if you started with the console version, you would love them both.

[dderek123]

BUT...

Honestly... how much more realism can you expect as a gamer before you're actually a holograph inside a game?

I have plenty of friends who are HARDCORE (we're talking Falcon machines) PC gamers. A long while ago, just as a little test to some of them, I played around with FPS and showed them examples. Almost NONE of them could differentiate between FPS differences lower than about 10... shocking for all their talk about FPS this... FPS that.

It is like the "blindfold Pepsi / Coke" test. Lots of people LOVE to theorize and talk but I would bet that if you took 30 seconds of video from a console in HD and 30 seconds of video from a PC at standard "high" settings, less than 20% of "gamers" could accurately tell the difference.

I hear what you're saying. But the bagging on console gamers will continue on. Oh yeah and I can tell a difference especially on a big new LCD screen. I've yet to get a 4K TV for my HTPC setup, I guess I'll get around to that for the Christmas after next.

I think it's kind of like a nerdy elitism really. Kinda like a steak cooked on a really expensive Weber gas grill as opposed to a grill that costs less than $300 at costco. A cook who doesn't know what he's doing can fuck up that steak on both grills. Also Gordon Ramsey could cook and season it perfectly on either grill. But, the experience of having that steak after being prepared on the expensive grill will be much more satisfying and enjoyable. It's not really a rational thing bagging on console gamers. I'm not the only one who enjoys it though haha.

Also PC gaming has been steadily growing too!
http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-J-308575-13.jpg
http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-L-308577-13.jpg
The integrated graphics on most motherboards are becoming "good enough" for playing games on low settings. So now little Johnny can get his own Steam account and play games on his fathers PC. So the PC gaming market has been soaking up more casual gamers lately. Someday maybe even laptops will get in on the action. But I think mobile phones will eventually take over as the technology gets there. We're not really close to that at all but it'll be really exciting like a total paradigm shift in gaming.



Casually and comfort-wise though, nothing beats curling up on the couch and playing on a console.

I hear you on that. I've moved my PC gaming over to the couch and I'll probably never go back. Great for multiplayer too.

[GroobyKrissy]

Shortened by Me :)


I hear what you're saying. But the bagging on console gamers will continue on. Oh yeah and I can tell a difference especially on a big new LCD screen. I've yet to get a 4K TV for my HTPC setup, I guess I'll get around to that for the Christmas after next.

I hear you on that. I've moved my PC gaming over to the couch and I'll probably never go back. Great for multiplayer too.

Do you think 4K screens will be affordable (I don't know what is affordable to you) by then? I checked one out at Magnolia... WOW. Pretty amazing but I'm not looking to upgrade my current 55" 3D HDTV for quite some time... 4K is pretty awesome though and rumor has it that at least the One will support 4K games. Haven't really read up on the PS4 but assuming the same. Wonder when game designers will start making 4K games? I've heard that a 4K movie is over 100GB so don't think that will be catching on anytime soon for downloads!

[Gillian]

The thing that drove me away from PC gaming was the practical difficulty of maintaining a PC with a decent enough spec to play the latest games.

With consoles, you know a game is going to perform with no stuttering and no crashes.

I'll be buying a PS4 and the only gaming I'm like to do on it is GT6 and whatever Final Fantasy comes out after launch. My current PS3 is mostly used to stream media from my NAS and I plan to shift it to the bedroom and give the PS4 pride of place in the lounge.

[GroobyKrissy]

The thing that drove me away from PC gaming was the practical difficulty of maintaining a PC with a decent enough spec to play the latest games.

With consoles, you know a game is going to perform with no stuttering and no crashes.

I'll be buying a PS4 and the only gaming I'm like to do on it is GT6 and whatever Final Fantasy comes out after launch. My current PS3 is mostly used to stream media from my NAS and I plan to shift it to the bedroom and give the PS4 pride of place in the lounge.

GT6 and FF... pretty different games :). Weird combo to like :)

Sounds like a good plan. Pretty much same here. Already sold one of my 360 and PS3 consoles but keeping one of each for bedroom until I replace. PS4 and One will definitely get main room, guest of honor spots.

[dderek123]

Shortened by Me :)

Yeah I did kind of ramble on there. I was just trying to explain that bagging on console gamers is a silly, nerdy and fun thing to do.


Do you think 4K screens will be affordable (I don't know what is affordable to you) by then?

I'm not sure what you mean by then but I hope they go down in price! The LCD technology has been around for a long time since 1972 I think. So all these new knick-knacks that emerge at the shops will go down in price eventually.


I checked one out at Magnolia... WOW. Pretty amazing but I'm not looking to upgrade my current 55" 3D HDTV for quite some time... 4K is pretty awesome though and rumor has it that at least the One will support 4K games. Haven't really read up on the PS4 but assuming the same.

4K games would be amazing! Especially on a PC :)


Wonder when game designers will start making 4K games? I've heard that a 4K movie is over 100GB so don't think that will be catching on anytime soon for downloads!
Yeah I wonder that too. The bigger the games get the less piracy they'll have to deal with. Nobody has time to download 100 gigs. Like you mentioned earlier, gaming might eventually mean being immersed in a realistic 3D holographic universe! I'm worried what will happen and the effects on society if/when we get to that. I'll probably be dead or really old by then though.

[GroobyKrissy]

Yeah I did kind of ramble on there. I was just trying to explain that bagging on console gamers is a silly, nerdy and fun thing to do.

I'm not sure what you mean by then but I hope they go down in price! The LCD technology has been around for a long time since 1972 I think. So all these new knick-knacks that emerge at the shops will go down in price eventually.

4K games would be amazing! Especially on a PC :)

Yeah I wonder that too. The bigger the games get the less piracy they'll have to deal with. Nobody has time to download 100 gigs. Like you mentioned earlier, gaming might eventually mean being immersed in a realistic 3D holographic universe! I'm worried what will happen and the effects on society if/when we get to that. I'll probably be dead or really old by then though.

"By then"... you were thinking about upgrading your current TV next December'ish... I think 4K screens will still be in the $5,000 range then!

I don't know re: 3D holography... technology marches on so quickly. I think realistically we'll be testing real-time, real-world 3D within the next 5 years... planning on sticking around that long? :)

[dderek123]

"By then"... you were thinking about upgrading your current TV next December'ish... I think 4K screens will still be in the $5,000 range then!

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57600087-221/samsung-sony-cut-4k-tv-prices/
"The new price of the 55-inch Samsung UN55F9000 is $4,999, while the 65-inch UN65F9000 is $5,999. Both TVs just started shipping in early August."

Well I meant the Christmas after next so that would give me a year and a bit. If a 55 inch Samsung is available for $4999 somewhere these days I imagine the price will go down by quite a bit by then. Gotta love Samsung and their methods of hammering down the prices.


I don't know re: 3D holography... technology marches on so quickly. I think realistically we'll be testing real-time, real-world 3D within the next 5 years... planning on sticking around that long? :)

Within the next 5 years???? Woah I hadn't thought it could be that soon. I think I'll still be young and silly enough to blow a bunch of money on stuff like that by then. You only live once right?

[Falling]

Titan Fall and Battlefield 4 look sick!!! PS4 for me!

[GroobyKrissy]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57600087-221/samsung-sony-cut-4k-tv-prices/
"The new price of the 55-inch Samsung UN55F9000 is $4,999, while the 65-inch UN65F9000 is $5,999. Both TVs just started shipping in early August."

Well I meant the Christmas after next so that would give me a year and a bit. If a 55 inch Samsung is available for $4999 somewhere these days I imagine the price will go down by quite a bit by then. Gotta love Samsung and their methods of hammering down the prices.


Within the next 5 years???? Woah I hadn't thought it could be that soon. I think I'll still be young and silly enough to blow a bunch of money on stuff like that by then. You only live once right?

Oof... I am a total optimist but I think 4K TV's dropping that quickly in price... VERY optimistic. You may be able to get some off brand for around $3-4K next December but I'll bet brand names will still be up there.

Maybe I am being a bit overly optimistic about 3D holography but I don't think by much. I've been playing around with the Leap Motion (https://www.leapmotion.com/) controller on my desktop PC at home... it does some pretty amazing things with the right apps. I think if (and that's a BIG if) this catches on, this will be the technology that holography will be built around.

[dderek123]

Oof... I am a total optimist but I think 4K TV's dropping that quickly in price... VERY optimistic. You may be able to get some off brand for around $3-4K next December but I'll bet brand names will still be up there.

I hope you'll be wrong obviously!


Maybe I am being a bit overly optimistic about 3D holography but I don't think by much. I've been playing around with the Leap Motion (https://www.leapmotion.com/) controller on my desktop PC at home... it does some pretty amazing things with the right apps. I think if (and that's a BIG if) this catches on, this will be the technology that holography will be built around.

Well in the meantime we'll have to settle for Tupac and ODB holographs haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-2wSwXcfE

[GroobyKrissy]

I hope you'll be wrong obviously!


Well in the meantime we'll have to settle for Tupac and ODB holographs haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-2wSwXcfE

LoL... wasn't that a kick?

Anyway... been nice chatting with you. Love this stuff but got to get some work done today so signing off :) Take care and having fun gaming on your elitist PC :).

[tsmirandameadows]

The thing that drove me away from PC gaming was the practical difficulty of maintaining a PC with a decent enough spec to play the latest games.


That just doesn't make any sense to me. The core of my current PC is made up of what were midrange components, costing maybe $450-500, when I purchased them in May 2010. Prior to that, the core hardware was purchased in 2005. Since May 2010, I've only made one upgrade, a new video card, which I got for $250 in January 2012. With this thoroughly aged hardware, I can run any new game at max settings. Can I get 60fps in Crysis 3? No, but I can run it at max setting at 1920x1080 with framerates generally around 30fps. I'm considering an upgrade now, but only for Digital Combat Simulator -- the most recent version really needs more RAM than I have, and that and an SSD would do wonders in cutting down the now glacial load times -- and flight simulators have always been by far and away the most resource intensive games.

If you can make intelligent hardware selections, it really is no trouble at all to maintain a gaming PC that slaughters console performance. And given the terrible reliability problem of the last generation of consoles -- I know someone who has gone through no less than FIVE 360s since the console launched -- you probably spend LESS on keeping a PC up to date, than you do on console replacements and repairs.

Oh, and speaking of flight simulators, there are a variety of kinds of games that you can play on PC that consoles simply cannot do, due to hardware and input limitations. Flight simulators and strategy games of any scale are the big ones, but even something as simple as multiplayer first person shooter that supports more than 12-16 players per match is STILL something you rarely see on consoles, when I was playing 64 player Tribes matches in 1999!!

[dderek123]

LoL... wasn't that a kick?

Anyway... been nice chatting with you. Love this stuff but got to get some work done today so signing off :) Take care and having fun gaming on your elitist PC :).
It's been nice indeed. Have a good one!

[GroobyKrissy]

That just doesn't make any sense to me. The core of my current PC is made up of what were midrange components, costing maybe $450-500, when I purchased them in May 2010. Prior to that, the core hardware was purchased in 2005. Since May 2010, I've only made one upgrade, a new video card, which I got for $250 in January 2012. With this thoroughly aged hardware, I can run any new game at max settings. Can I get 60fps in Crysis 3? No, but I can run it at max setting at 1920x1080 with framerates generally around 30fps. I'm considering an upgrade now, but only for Digital Combat Simulator -- the most recent version really needs more RAM than I have, and that and an SSD would do wonders in cutting down the now glacial load times -- and flight simulators have always been by far and away the most resource intensive games.

If you can make intelligent hardware selections, it really is no trouble at all to maintain a gaming PC that slaughters console performance. And given the terrible reliability problem of the last generation of consoles -- I know someone who has gone through no less than FIVE 360s since the console launched -- you probably spend LESS on keeping a PC up to date, than you do on console replacements and repairs.

Oh, and speaking of flight simulators, there are a variety of kinds of games that you can play on PC that consoles simply cannot do, due to hardware and input limitations. Flight simulators and strategy games of any scale are the big ones, but even something as simple as multiplayer first person shooter that supports more than 12-16 players per match is STILL something you rarely see on consoles, when I was playing 64 player Tribes matches in 1999!!

OK, so I know I said I was leaving but briefly...

I often wonder why people buy a Porsche and then drive 45 MPH on the freeway. It is the same with a computer. If you're not utilizing your technology to its fullest potential (that is, a 2560 monitor at full FPS for gaming)... then why have it and why not just settle for console gaming?

If you're buying mid-range (i.e. - consumer) parts for your "gaming" computer, then i would have to question your "gamer-card". When I talk about being a gamer, I'm talking about someone who pushes their computer to the limits for all the FPS they can get and spends their money on components that will allow them to do so.

Granted, your case is a bit different since you are largely correct when it comes to flight sims and etc. I haven't actually played a flight sim since the old MS flight sim was out since not really my cup of tea, but a game like FarCry or Crysis will max out just about any system... even top shelf ones (that consumers can purchase - not talking "dream" systems in the $7K + range).

Replacing a dead console (even 5 times) is WAY more economical than being a gamer (as I define the term) than trying to keep up with games at full FPS... if you do it legally.

[tsmirandameadows]

Um, there's nothing illegal about overclocking. It voids your warranty, but that isn't breaking the law. And why would I buy mid range components for a "gaming" PC?

One, the shift of AAA development to the consoles has crippled tech advancement. Sure, we'd be at a plateau anyway at this point, but the fact that games are still being developed for platforms that have basically 10 year old hardware isn't helping. What this means in practice is that if you have 4 year old mid-range components in your PC, you can still run every new AAA game that comes out at max settings with framerates AT LEAST in the high 40s. You simply don't need anything more than older midrange components to have a gaming experience that completely blows the consoles out of the water.

Two, this has already been brought up, and alluded to, but the games that are on consoles... kinda suck. PC gamers have been bitching about "consolization" for years, and with good reason. If you play a computer game from the late 80s, for example, you are in for a very different experience. Through the mid-90s, not that many people owned PCs. If you did you were probably an engineer, a scientist, a teacher, or something of that nature. In other words, computer gaming at that time consisted of people of above average intelligence, i.e. programmers, writing games for people of above average intelligence, i.e. the handful of people who had PCs and were smart enough, say, to get work done efficiently and well on a command line. So who was the target market for a computer game in 1990? Someone who was smart, who was happy to RTFM, who enjoyed an intellectual challenge, and who was comfortable with delayed gratification. Compare this with the target market for Call of Duty. The consequence is that games are much, much more simple and developers adamantly refuse to grant the possibility that their players might be intelligent and independent enough to not want their hand held for the entire game. Certainly not all console games are like this, but the majority of AAA console games are. PC gaming has suffered as a result of this trend, but at least we're beginning to bounce back with mid-budget, kickstarter funded games that are starting to reach market. I'd a lot rather play a game like Ultima IV, primitive interface, graphics and all, than play yet another identical "step above a rail shooter" console first person shooter.

Three, mods, usermade content, and flexibility. Look at the Steam workshop for Skyrim: case closed.

[tsmirandameadows]

Oh I forgot one other thing: a first person shooter that isn't played with a mouse and keyboard offends the gods. It's just that simple. :P

Btw, I hope I'm not coming off as rude or snobbish. I just occasionally like to talk about games and I get a little excited. :D

[dderek123]

I'll just leave this here.
http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/quot+I+should+have+spent+more+money+quot+My+exact+ _b26a1739458d21797ca194c00cbf8528.jpg
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/57194/_1372800900.jpg
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/883134_523240377717843_1237822838_o.jpg

[Gillian]

GT6 and FF... pretty different games :). Weird combo to like :)
I know ... :D

The Final Fantasy series, which I first played with VII on the original Playstation, just got me hooked. I just admire the effort that goes into those games but don't play any other fantasy/RPG type games. As for Gran Turismo, I race all my friends on the sports car forum I spend most of my time on and, IMHO, it's the best driving game out there.

[dderek123]

Oh I forgot one other thing: a first person shooter that isn't played with a mouse and keyboard offends the gods. It's just that simple. :P

Preach it Miranda!
http://static.tumblr.com/v1asjlx/SGAlysuxp/other_preach_gif.gif

[Gillian]

If you can make intelligent hardware selections, it really is no trouble at all to maintain a gaming PC that slaughters console performance.
It may not be difficult but it requires effort, which at my age and stage in life I no longer have the desire to put in. I don't dispute that a tuned PC will knock spots off a console whilst also being more flexible, but as an entertainment and media hub, which can be discreet in a living room, the PS3, soon to be PS4, is hard to beat.

And on the subject of console reliability, my PS3 has never packed in. XBoxes are another story, RROD etc. ... :D

[GroobyKrissy]

Um, there's nothing illegal about overclocking. It voids your warranty, but that isn't breaking the law. And why would I buy mid range components for a "gaming" PC?

One, the shift of AAA development to the consoles has crippled tech advancement. Sure, we'd be at a plateau anyway at this point, but the fact that games are still being developed for platforms that have basically 10 year old hardware isn't helping. What this means in practice is that if you have 4 year old mid-range components in your PC, you can still run every new AAA game that comes out at max settings with framerates AT LEAST in the high 40s. You simply don't need anything more than older midrange components to have a gaming experience that completely blows the consoles out of the water.

Two, this has already been brought up, and alluded to, but the games that are on consoles... kinda suck. PC gamers have been bitching about "consolization" for years, and with good reason. If you play a computer game from the late 80s, for example, you are in for a very different experience. Through the mid-90s, not that many people owned PCs. If you did you were probably an engineer, a scientist, a teacher, or something of that nature. In other words, computer gaming at that time consisted of people of above average intelligence, i.e. programmers, writing games for people of above average intelligence, i.e. the handful of people who had PCs and were smart enough, say, to get work done efficiently and well on a command line. So who was the target market for a computer game in 1990? Someone who was smart, who was happy to RTFM, who enjoyed an intellectual challenge, and who was comfortable with delayed gratification. Compare this with the target market for Call of Duty. The consequence is that games are much, much more simple and developers adamantly refuse to grant the possibility that their players might be intelligent and independent enough to not want their hand held for the entire game. Certainly not all console games are like this, but the majority of AAA console games are. PC gaming has suffered as a result of this trend, but at least we're beginning to bounce back with mid-budget, kickstarter funded games that are starting to reach market. I'd a lot rather play a game like Ultima IV, primitive interface, graphics and all, than play yet another identical "step above a rail shooter" console first person shooter.

Three, mods, usermade content, and flexibility. Look at the Steam workshop for Skyrim: case closed.

I never said overclocking was illegal. Upgrading your processor without buying new software... often is (read the fine print in your EULA's). Most gamers that I know of all have sob stories about how they upgraded their processor and then Windows stopped working so they gleefully told this big lie to MS to get them to unlock it again. If you've ever upgraded a processor recently, you know what I'm talking about... Windows, Office, most Adobe products... all will stop working. This means that legally, you should be purchasing new software every time you update your "core" system, which to most software developers, means your processor.

Ummm... you said yourself that your "current" machine is still running with "midrange components". In my mind, you're not a PC gamer... you're a person who owns a PC who happens to have a hobby of playing Flight Sims. That's just my personal definition of a "gamer" though. As I said, a PC gamer to me is someone who is interested in playing games and seeing / understanding the beauty of it... the way light reflects off of water in FarCry, the glare of sun in Crysis, the physics involved in a game like Battlefield, etc. etc. TO get that experience, you need to have the proper equipment... which is beyond consumer-level components.

Take this for example... "I can run any new game at max settings" is what you said. Your very next sentence... "Can I get 60FPS in Crysis 3? No..." Then tell me... are you actually playing it at "max settings"???? Perhaps in your mind but to a true gamer... No. Not going to be satisfied with 30FPS at 1920... that is basically watching TV.

I'm a console gamer. I have all of the gaming consoles (major 3) that matter and keep them updated with the current versions as much as possible. I have the Kinect, Move, and most accessories as far as the games I play (guns for shooters, etc.).

It is indisputable that for realism, PC gaming is where it is at. Play Metro in full 3D on a 27" monitor and just try not to jump out of your seat... I've done it. What I'm saying is that for all this bluster there are VERY FEW ACTUAL GAMERS who can legitimately say they have GAMING systems. Most of these people, if you were to go into their room, have a dust filled system that may have been state-of-the-art at some point but now is basically an iPhone (exaggerating of course). Almost NO persons that I know of personally, except for a few true "gamer" friends, even have monitors that actually give you an experience that differentiates clearly between console gaming and PC gaming (i.e. - 2560), much less dual $500.00 video cards that can actually do all the cell shading, texture mapping, lighting, FPS, etc. etc. that gamers want.

All I'm saying is that there is no reason to bag on consoles just because your preference is PC gaming. Consoles are perfectly adequate for the jobs intended, especially these next gen consoles. Saying that they suck because sour grapes that PC gaming has gone downhill (LARGELY because it tried to follow the music industry with DRM and etc.) is just silly.

[tsmirandameadows]

You are mistaken about upgrades voiding your software licenses. Yes, you often have to reactivate after major hardware upgrades, but you don't have to "lie to MS" to do so. You just reactivate by following the prompts in the window that pops up. If for some reason that doesn't work you call the support number, tell them you put in a new CPU, and then the support tech reactivate your license.

I run my games at max settings. What part of this aren't you understanding? Yes I could blow 5 grand and run a system with Quad Nvidia Titans and quintuple my FPS, but the game is still going to look the same, just with framerates well past the perceivable point of diminishing returns. If I'm not a gamer because I have better uses for my money than spending it on components that are completely unnecessary to get visuals in performance way out ahead of anything on a console, then I guess console "gamers" are disqualified from the label by default.

[tsmirandameadows]

It may not be difficult but it requires effort, which at my age and stage in life I no longer have the desire to put in. I don't dispute that a tuned PC will knock spots off a console whilst also being more flexible, but as an entertainment and media hub, which can be discreet in a living room, the PS3, soon to be PS4, is hard to beat.

And on the subject of console reliability, my PS3 has never packed in. XBoxes are another story, RROD etc. ... :D

Again I feel like this is an overblown difficulty. Do you not make purchases of products where you have more than 2.5 choices? What do you do when you need a new car, or a new TV, or something of that nature? Do you throw your hand up in defeat because at your stage of life it's too much trouble to do some product research and shop around? Shopping for a new motherboard and CPU is no different than shopping for a new car; arguably it's a lot easier because the money being considered is a lot less so you don't feel so much like you have to make the perfect choice.

[tsmirandameadows]

Again I hope I'm not getting too snarky or coming off as abrasive here. That's not my intent at all!

[GroobyKrissy]

Oh I forgot one other thing: a first person shooter that isn't played with a mouse and keyboard offends the gods. It's just that simple. :P

Btw, I hope I'm not coming off as rude or snobbish. I just occasionally like to talk about games and I get a little excited. :D

Oh, I totally agree with you on this. It is a much better experience.

I'm not opposed to PC gaming... it just isn't my preference these days and I don't see the need to disparage console gamers / systems... unless you practice what you preach and have a system that is tricked out for gaming AND UTILIZE IT AS SUCH... By what you've written thus far, it doesn't appear that way at all.

System specs please?

As for the last, likewise. I don't intend to get all worked up about this either... it's an interesting discussion and hope we can keep it as such :).

[TGL]

Well, I'm biased in my choice, since I've been working on a game that will be out on both Xbox 360 and Xbox One. So I'm obviously eager to get to try that game on the Xbox One, once it's out :)

But other than that, I'm a huge fan of the Forza Motorsport series, so I'm really excited about trying the new Forza on Xbox One. I'm really hoping I can use my wheel and pedal set from my 360, but I doubt it :/

Other games of immediate interest are FIFA and GTA V, but those are out on both platforms, so they aren't really having an influence on my choice.

Furthermore, I'm really looking forward to all those TV, Internet and music features that the Xbox One has added. I know it's being flamed a lot for just that, but I'm actually pretty excited about those things. I can see myself using those features a lot!

[GroobyKrissy]

You are mistaken about upgrades voiding your software licenses. Yes, you often have to reactivate after major hardware upgrades, but you don't have to "lie to MS" to do so. You just reactivate by following the prompts in the window that pops up. If for some reason that doesn't work you call the support number, tell them you put in a new CPU, and then the support tech reactivate your license.

I run my games at max settings. What part of this aren't you understanding? Yes I could blow 5 grand and run a system with Quad Nvidia Titans and quintuple my FPS, but the game is still going to look the same, just with framerates well past the perceivable point of diminishing returns. If I'm not a gamer because I have better uses for my money than spending it on components that are completely unnecessary to get visuals in performance way out ahead of anything on a console, then I guess console "gamers" are disqualified from the label by default.

A. Read the EULA of your software. MS may be nice and let you do it because otherwise people would throw a fit, but they are NOT LEGALLY obligated to do so. I've read the EULA word for word on most of the software I buy... have you? Intuit flat out said so when I did my last update and tried to get them to let me use the version of QB I had... They said, read the EULA, which I already knew. It depends on the Customer Service Rep you get and the mood they are in at the time.

B. You don't run your games at max settings unless you are playing them at the highest resolution possible with all texture mapping, lighting, etc. turned on. If you don't have a 2560 monitor, playing games at the highest settings is impossible... it is that simple. Most consumer level graphics cards cannot sustain games at that resolution... it is that simple. Most consumer level processors will be taxed at that level... it is that simple. Honestly, I have a 2560 monitor. If you think gaming at 1920 is awesome... play your flight sim at 2560... the difference is staggering.

C. That is why I differentiate between PC gamers and CONSOLE gamers... the two use different setups. PC gamers, like I already said, care about the SPECS of their systems... that is where the bragging rights are. If you're using core components from 2010... besides your video card... can you really claim to be a " PC gamer"???

[tsmirandameadows]

What constitutes tricking out though? Most of the top of the line components have marginal performance increases for non-marginal increases in cost. Why blow an extra $200 on the GTX model of the latest Nvidia card, when the GT version only has a 6-7% decrease in performance, and none of the games that are available are even going to be demanding enough that that 6-7% performance differential makes a difference?

Specs:
Asus M4A77TD Mobo
AMD Phenom II X4 955 with after market cooler and overclocked to 3.5GHz
4GB Corsair DDR3 1333
XFX Radeon 6870 2GB x 2, with after market coolers and OCed
1TB WD HDD
Coolermaster 650W power supply, I forget which model

Flight Sim Gear :D
Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog
Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals
TrackIR 5

[GroobyKrissy]

It may not be difficult but it requires effort, which at my age and stage in life I no longer have the desire to put in. I don't dispute that a tuned PC will knock spots off a console whilst also being more flexible, but as an entertainment and media hub, which can be discreet in a living room, the PS3, soon to be PS4, is hard to beat.

And on the subject of console reliability, my PS3 has never packed in. XBoxes are another story, RROD etc. ... :D

My first Xbox RROD 3 days after I bought it. I was so pissed it almost killed console gaming for me. Luckily, Best Buy was very nice about it (or Circuit City... can't remember where I bought it) and replaced it... I had to wait about a week for stock but I was happy they did it for free. Never had any problems after that.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well, I'm biased in my choice, since I've been working on a game that will be out on both Xbox 360 and Xbox One. So I'm obviously eager to get to try that game on the Xbox One, once it's out :)

But other than that, I'm a huge fan of the Forza Motorsport series, so I'm really excited about trying the new Forza on Xbox One. I'm really hoping I can use my wheel and pedal set from my 360, but I doubt it :/

Other games of immediate interest are FIFA and GTA V, but those are out on both platforms, so they aren't really having an influence on my choice.

Furthermore, I'm really looking forward to all those TV, Internet and music features that the Xbox One has added. I know it's being flamed a lot for just that, but I'm actually pretty excited about those things. I can see myself using those features a lot!

You know, even as a soccer player and fan of the sport, I've never gotten into FIFA games... I LOVE Madden... just never FIFA. I may give the new one a go though. Forza is awesome :)

[tsmirandameadows]

Who are these PC gamers you speak of who care all about absolute specs and nothing about games or building a killer system within a budget?

And no, I don't have a 2560 res monitor, so in that respect it is not "max settings". But the only performance/quality setting of a game which is monitor dependent is resolution. Everything else you mentioned, i.e. texture quality, lighting, anisotropic filtering, antialiasing, draw distance, etc. are GPU and CPU dependent, and yes I run all of my games with those settings maxed.

[TGL]

You know, even as a soccer player and fan of the sport, I've never gotten into FIFA games... I LOVE Madden... just never FIFA. I may give the new one a go though. Forza is awesome :)

I have every FIFA game on Xbox 360 since FIFA 08, except for FIFA 10, so again, I'm probably pretty biased in my choice there. It's more a tradition now that I just have to own it, lol.
But of course, they always add some new features that makes you feel you just need to own the new version!

[my my my!]

I'm probably not getting PS4 for a long time but,

I'm looking forward to the ps4 version of GTA 5, Star Wars Battlefront 3 (although i'm probably getting this on PC anyway)

also looking forward to the ps4 entries for new Resident Evil and Silent hill games, maybe some high def remakes. Splinter Cell blacklist looks gorgeous on ps3/pc, so it's interesting if the next one will look just as good.

Battlefield 4 for me is already pre ordered on PC.

Hope the Call of Duty clowns finally take advantage of the new hardware and put out a next gen game with a completely reworked engine with bigger maps.

[GroobyKrissy]

What constitutes tricking out though? Most of the top of the line components have marginal performance increases for non-marginal increases in cost. Why blow an extra $200 on the GTX model of the latest Nvidia card, when the GT version only has a 6-7% decrease in performance, and none of the games that are available are even going to be demanding enough that that 6-7% performance differential makes a difference?

Specs:
Asus M4A77TD Mobo
AMD Phenom II X4 955 with after market cooler and overclocked to 3.5GHz
4GB Corsair DDR3 1333
XFX Radeon 6870 2GB x 2, with after market coolers and OCed
1TB WD HDD
Coolermaster 650W power supply, I forget which model

Flight Sim Gear :D
Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog
Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals
TrackIR 5

OK, now go onto just about any GAMING forum, post those stats, call yourself a GAMER and try to get some bragging rights, and see how well it is received. Honestly, the 4GB of RAM alone is not meeting the recommended specs for most of today's cutting edge PC games.

You have decent graphics cards although you're playing with fire supporting Crossfire cards with a 650W power supply!!!

So, here's the thing. If you're a PC gamer and you care about your system... THE BRAGGING RIGHTS ARE EVERYTHING. That extra cycle... those extra pixels... THAT is what makes a gamer... a gamer. That 6% difference... THAT is the WORLD to a true gamer.

Look, I'm not meaning to be stupid or disparaging about this but it seems to me, you've a gaming hobby. You like Flight Sims. Awesome and more power to you. But, unless you've got a gaming system, I just don't see the point in telling everyone else how terrible consoles are. The next gen console specs SLAY your current system hands down as far as pure computational power goes... am I missing something here or are you going to make me post them side by side...?

[GroobyKrissy]

Who are these PC gamers you speak of who care all about absolute specs and nothing about games or building a killer system within a budget?

And no, I don't have a 2560 res monitor, so in that respect it is not "max settings". But the only performance/quality setting of a game which is monitor dependent is resolution. Everything else you mentioned, i.e. texture quality, lighting, anisotropic filtering, antialiasing, draw distance, etc. are GPU and CPU dependent, and yes I run all of my games with those settings maxed.

OMG... do you read industry magazines? I have CPU, PC Gamer, PC World, Maximum PC, those are just off the top of my head. Do you visit gaming forums? It is ALL about bragging rights for your system and how pretty it is... I think that is a pretty indisputable fact. Gamers care about their systems and maintain them appropriately.

Gaming within a budget... ENTIRELY different discussion. I'm just saying you shouldn't lecture people on how bad consoles are and how great PC gaming is unless you've got a KICK-ASS gaming system... which you don't. I could walk into any Best Buy right now and buy a system off the shelf ON SALE that would beat your system.

OK, on this last part... I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here. I don't know how else to explain it. The higher the resolution, the harder your system is working to generate all those extra pixels. The viewing resolution is NOT independent of the system specs... the two are dependent on each other. The graphics card is not just putting out a picture... it is putting out a picture dependent on a given resolution. Again, it is not just putting out texture, lighting, etc. It is putting those things out dependent on the dictated resolution... THE HIGHER THE RESOLUTION ASKED FOR, the harder the system is working.

You're not MAXING out the settings of the game unless you are playing at the highest resolution possible, which if you're just talking casual, hobbyist... is 1920. If you're a gamer, you want to play at 2560... and you need a system able to do so.

[tsmirandameadows]

Well I guess I hang out on different PC gaming forums then. I've yet to meet a passionate PC gamer who doesn't recognize the spec posting as being A) primarily wild exaggerations, and B) desperate attempts at making up for small penis size. To make the criterion for being a PC gamer blowing 5 grand a year on upgrades so you're never without the absolute latest, most expensive hardware is pretty absurd.

Honestly the "gamers" you are describing are fucking morons. To my mind, a PC gamer is someone who plays PC games, builds their own systems with performance/cost ratio in mind, supports and troubleshoots their hardware and the games they run on them, and is comfortable tweaking hardware and software settings. But all of this is just to support the playing of games, which means a "gamer" is going to be someone who plays a wide variety of games from a variety of eras, knows how one game influenced another and how genres have evolved, knows the history of the major studios and developers and how that fits into the web of games and game developers that exist today, can discuss mechanics and design critically, and basically brings a bit more sophistication to their hobby than "the latest Call of Duty is my favorite."

Go to Bluesnews or RPG Codex, probably the last hold outs of non-console using PC gamers, where no one is talking about performance or tweaking or anything like that, because Console development has rendered such talk irrelevant. In '98 you needed to talk about such things because the technology was moving so swiftly in that era that PC games required bleeding edge hardware to be playable, but today a PC built for gaming in 2005 would still be able to run most games as well as a console. Instead, people analyze mechanics and discuss historical influences on design decisions. They point to new kickstarters where some industry vets are putting together a medium-budget project to resurrect genres and game types that the AAA Console juggernaut had relegated to the garbage bin of history. That's what's being discussed on PC gaming boards, not a quad Titan setup, because anyone that cares about games knows that such hardware is irrelevant for building a system that creates a gaming experience vastly superior to what's on console.

And while the new consoles will beat the specs of my current system, to say that they slay it is an exaggeration. If I were to drop $400 on upgrades, the same day that the PS4 comes out, I'd be way ahead of the consoles again. Likewise, the ONLY game that pushes my RAM is DCS. If 4GB is insufficient for a non-simming gamer, then they really need to clean up their Windows installation and disable all the useless crap burning resources in the background.

[tsmirandameadows]

OMG... do you read industry magazines? I have CPU, PC Gamer, PC World, Maximum PC, those are just off the top of my head. Do you visit gaming forums? It is ALL about bragging rights for your system and how pretty it is... I think that is a pretty indisputable fact. Gamers care about their systems and maintain them appropriately.

Gaming within a budget... ENTIRELY different discussion. I'm just saying you shouldn't lecture people on how bad consoles are and how great PC gaming is unless you've got a KICK-ASS gaming system... which you don't. I could walk into any Best Buy right now and buy a system off the shelf ON SALE that would beat your system.

OK, on this last part... I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here. I don't know how else to explain it. The higher the resolution, the harder your system is working to generate all those extra pixels. The viewing resolution is NOT independent of the system specs... the two are dependent on each other. The graphics card is not just putting out a picture... it is putting out a picture dependent on a given resolution. Again, it is not just putting out texture, lighting, etc. It is putting those things out dependent on the dictated resolution... THE HIGHER THE RESOLUTION ASKED FOR, the harder the system is working.

You're not MAXING out the settings of the game unless you are playing at the highest resolution possible, which if you're just talking casual, hobbyist... is 1920. If you're a gamer, you want to play at 2560... and you need a system able to do so.

You kinda just blew your cover here if you're citing PC Gamer as a relevant gaming publication. It was in 1999. I don't know a single PC gamer who still subscribed to that magazine post 2004.

[tsmirandameadows]

And yes I feel free to bad mouth consoles even with midrange specs because 1) those specs beat what's in the current consoles. 2) If I were to spend $900, the cost of a PS4 and Xbox One, on upgrades, I would have a system that would once again blow the new generation of consoles out of the water for the rest of the console cycle. If I even were to spend half that, I'd still probably be able to get through nearly the entire console cycle without upgrading. 3) The PC has entire genres of games that simply aren't available on the console, and to me these games are far more fun, stimulating, and sophisticated. 4) We have a HUGE back catalog going back three decades. 5) Steam/GOG/GMG sales -- this alone render PC gaming way, way cheaper, even if upgrades can add up. I have almost 90 games on GOG, and yet I've spent less than $250 on that site. 6) Mods, customizability, flexibility. If you want more content for a console game, you need to buy the DLC. If you want more for a PC game, you just check out what the community has made, much of it of professional quality, and all of it free.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well I guess I hang out on different PC gaming forums then. I've yet to meet a passionate PC gamer who doesn't recognize the spec posting as being A) primarily wild exaggerations, and B) desperate attempts at making up for small penis size. To make the criterion for being a PC gamer blowing 5 grand a year on upgrades so you're never without the absolute latest, most expensive hardware is pretty absurd.

Honestly the "gamers" you are describing are fucking morons. To my mind, a PC gamer is someone who plays PC games, builds their own systems with performance/cost ratio in mind, supports and troubleshoots their hardware and the games they run on them, and is comfortable tweaking hardware and software settings. But all of this is just to support the playing of games, which means a "gamer" is going to be someone who plays a wide variety of games from a variety of eras, knows how one game influenced another and how genres have evolved, knows the history of the major studios and developers and how that fits into the web of games and game developers that exist today, can discuss mechanics and design critically, and basically brings a bit more sophistication to their hobby than "the latest Call of Duty is my favorite."

Go to Bluesnews or RPG Codex, probably the last hold outs of non-console using PC gamers, where no one is talking about performance or tweaking or anything like that, because Console development has rendered such talk irrelevant. In '98 you needed to talk about such things because the technology was moving so swiftly in that era that PC games required bleeding edge hardware to be playable, but today a PC built for gaming in 2005 would still be able to run most games as well as a console. Instead, people analyze mechanics and discuss historical influences on design decisions. They point to new kickstarters where some industry vets are putting together a medium-budget project to resurrect genres and game types that the AAA Console juggernaut had relegated to the garbage bin of history. That's what's being discussed on PC gaming boards, not a quad Titan setup, because anyone that cares about games knows that such hardware is irrelevant for building a system that creates a gaming experience vastly superior to what's on console.

And while the new consoles will beat the specs of my current system, to say that they slay it is an exaggeration. If I were to drop $400 on upgrades, the same day that the PS4 comes out, I'd be way ahead of the consoles again. Likewise, the ONLY game that pushes my RAM is DCS. If 4GB is insufficient for a non-simming gamer, then they really need to clean up their Windows installation and disable all the useless crap burning resources in the background.

So, I mean, it sounds like you're just perturbed about having to game within a budget... which, like I said, is an entirely different discussion. I understand gaming on a budget and that's fine. I have a problem when you portray yourself as a PC gamer AND (I'm bolding and italicizing this AND because it is important) disparage consoles and by extension, console gamers, when your own system is pretty insignificant as far as gaming goes.

On the flip side, if your stated system specs were similar to mine, I'd say... OK, you know what, you probably know what you're talking about, which is why I asked for them. Gamers don't have to always have the latest and greatest and if you've gotten that from what I said, I apologize. Not what I was getting at. I'm simply saying that PC gamers CARE about their systems. You've changed ONE graphics card in 2+ years...? And your current system is made of components from 2010? Can you not agree that that is a LIFETIME in technology?

I've already stated that I have my own definition of what a PC gamer is, which I don't believe you fit into. That's just me. "Gamer" is like a title. If you as someone if they're a rock climber and they say, "yes", you can reasonably expect that they climb vertical rocks, not that they walk up steep hills. A gamer has a reasonably good system... built specifically for gaming. Like I said, by your stated system specs, I could walk into Best Buy right now, go to the sale rack and pick something off the shelf for $400 that would be better than your current system. That's all I'm saying.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a gamer on a budget... everyone is on a budget these days. Let's go this route though and say then that maybe some people play consoles because they are too, on budgets and console gaming is pretty cheap (buy used games, used hardware, etc. etc.). What then, is wrong with that?

[dderek123]

And yes I feel free to bad mouth consoles even with midrange specs because 1) those specs beat what's in the current consoles. 2) If I were to spend $900, the cost of a PS4 and Xbox One, on upgrades, I would have a system that would once again blow the new generation of consoles out of the water for the rest of the console cycle. If I even were to spend half that, I'd still probably be able to get through nearly the entire console cycle without upgrading. 3) The PC has entire genres of games that simply aren't available on the console, and to me these games are far more fun, stimulating, and sophisticated. 4) We have a HUGE back catalog going back three decades. 5) Steam/GOG/GMG sales -- this alone render PC gaming way, way cheaper, even if upgrades can add up. I have almost 90 games on GOG, and yet I've spent less than $250 on that site. 6) Mods, customizability, flexibility. If you want more content for a console game, you need to buy the DLC. If you want more for a PC game, you just check out what the community has made, much of it of professional quality, and all of it free.
:Bowdown:
http://static.tumblr.com/v1asjlx/SGAlysuxp/other_preach_gif.gif

[GroobyKrissy]

You kinda just blew your cover here if you're citing PC Gamer as a relevant gaming publication. It was in 1999. I don't know a single PC gamer who still subscribed to that magazine post 2004.

Good grief... I never said I was a PC gamer... I said I subscribe to industry magazines. I've stated over and over again... I'm a console gamer.

[tsmirandameadows]

So, I mean, it sounds like you're just perturbed about having to game within a budget... which, like I said, is an entirely different discussion. I understand gaming on a budget and that's fine. I have a problem when you portray yourself as a PC gamer AND (I'm bolding and italicizing this AND because it is important) disparage consoles and by extension, console gamers, when your own system is pretty insignificant as far as gaming goes.

On the flip side, if your stated system specs were similar to mine, I'd say... OK, you know what, you probably know what you're talking about, which is why I asked for them. Gamers don't have to always have the latest and greatest and if you've gotten that from what I said, I apologize. Not what I was getting at. I'm simply saying that PC gamers CARE about their systems. You've changed ONE graphics card in 2+ years...? And your current system is made of components from 2010? Can you not agree that that is a LIFETIME in technology?

I've already stated that I have my own definition of what a PC gamer is, which I don't believe you fit into. That's just me. "Gamer" is like a title. If you as someone if they're a rock climber and they say, "yes", you can reasonably expect that they climb vertical rocks, not that they walk up steep hills. A gamer has a reasonably good system... built specifically for gaming. Like I said, by your stated system specs, I could walk into Best Buy right now, go to the sale rack and pick something off the shelf for $400 that would be better than your current system. That's all I'm saying.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a gamer on a budget... everyone is on a budget these days. Let's go this route though and say then that maybe some people play consoles because they are too, on budgets and console gaming is pretty cheap (buy used games, used hardware, etc. etc.). What then, is wrong with that?

I'm not at all perturbed about gaming on a budget. I'm just not stupid. You read any article on upgrading a PC, and the number one piece of advice is upgrade when you are unhappy with performance, not when something new comes out. Games today don't challenge well built systems. Period. This is a consequence of games being developed for a fixed system spec that is nearly 10 years old. If games are challenging your hardware then you don't know how to build a system and how to configure it properly.

All I can say is that no wonder you game on consoles if you think system specs matter this much.

[GroobyKrissy]

And yes I feel free to bad mouth consoles even with midrange specs because 1) those specs beat what's in the current consoles. 2) If I were to spend $900, the cost of a PS4 and Xbox One, on upgrades, I would have a system that would once again blow the new generation of consoles out of the water for the rest of the console cycle. If I even were to spend half that, I'd still probably be able to get through nearly the entire console cycle without upgrading. 3) The PC has entire genres of games that simply aren't available on the console, and to me these games are far more fun, stimulating, and sophisticated. 4) We have a HUGE back catalog going back three decades. 5) Steam/GOG/GMG sales -- this alone render PC gaming way, way cheaper, even if upgrades can add up. I have almost 90 games on GOG, and yet I've spent less than $250 on that site. 6) Mods, customizability, flexibility. If you want more content for a console game, you need to buy the DLC. If you want more for a PC game, you just check out what the community has made, much of it of professional quality, and all of it free.

So... this makes sense?

Take a 8 year old (7 year old - PS3) console, which by your own admission, is not upgradable, and say YOUR PC, which you've upgraded with a graphics card in 2010, is better?

Ummm... duh.

And again, you can upgrade your PC and make it better than a non-upgradable console? Ummm... duh?

Nobody is disputing that fact. I already stated that for realism (read: gaming enjoyment) PC gaming is better.

THE ONLY THING I am disagreeing with you about is that I just don't believe you're really entitled to have opinions on PC vs next-gen Console gaming given the stated specs of your system, which don't meet or exceed next-gen consoles AT THIS TIME.

So, dump another $400.00 into your current system and have all the fun in the world doing so. I'll take my $400.00 and get a PS4 and use my computer for other stuff.

Notice here... I'm not saying PC gamers suck... or that PC's suck. The "suck" assertion is entirely one-sided... I just don't see a reason for it... that's all.

[GroobyKrissy]

:Bowdown:


Hey, you be quiet. The ladies are having a discussion.

[tsmirandameadows]

Okay, enjoy your PS4 then. What's the killer app that justifies the day one expenditure again?

[dderek123]

Hey, you be quiet. The ladies are having a discussion.

http://i.imgur.com/Y1DB4.gif

[GroobyKrissy]

I'm not at all perturbed about gaming on a budget. I'm just not stupid. You read any article on upgrading a PC, and the number one piece of advice is upgrade when you are unhappy with performance, not when something new comes out. Games today don't challenge well built systems. Period. This is a consequence of games being developed for a fixed system spec that is nearly 10 years old. If games are challenging your hardware then you don't know how to build a system and how to configure it properly.

All I can say is that no wonder you game on consoles if you think system specs matter this much.

Look Miranda,

We're going down a route that I thought we could stay away from. I've no intention in starting something with you... I thought we were having a friendly discussion.

You began this whole thing by disparaging consoles... true?

I simply have an "gamers unite" mentality. I don't care what platform you game on... gaming is gaming. We shouldn't be putting other gamers and their consoles down... it just isn't good for the industry.

PC gamers have this mentality that console gaming "hurt them" in some way. Newsflash... PC gaming suffered because the studios, like the music industry, got greedy and started to DRM everything, and refuse to lower prices on games pushing out the used game market. This has kept console gaming alive.

[GroobyKrissy]

Okay, enjoy your PS4 then. What's the killer app that justifies the day one expenditure again?

Ummm... do you know about a price drop within the first year that you're not telling anyone about? Why should I wait when I can reserve one and have it when it comes out? I ghost write a tech review blog and will be reviewing both consoles. Nice to get it out on day one if possible.

I'm not upgrading just for franks and beans. True, I like technology but I don't run out and get everything that is new (already stated in another thread that won't be getting the new iPhone model), unless I think it is going to be good for business (my site).

The PS4 I'm getting mostly to write a review. I rarely play my PS3 and mostly use it for Blu-Ray since the 360 doesn't have one and I watch a lot of movies while I'm working. Also, I like the Netflix interface in the PS3 system more than the Roku, Apple TV, 360, or any other interface that I've tried.

The One I am getting because the new Skype is integrated into it and I plan on doing more Skype shows for my site for Members. And, of course, it has some game releases that I am looking forward to playing.

Geez... I mean, it just sounds like you're ticked off at me about something. I'm sorry if I've said something to offend. Like I said, I thought we were having a nice, slightly intense discussion about PC vs. Console Gaming...?

[GroobyKrissy]

http://i.imgur.com/Y1DB4.gif

Awwww... TOO CUTE!

[tsmirandameadows]

I'm sorry that I got overly personal. That was uncalled for on my part. I was becoming frustrated by the course of the argument.

You are right, however, that PC gamers feel like Consoles damaged PC gaming, because frankly that's the story of over the last decade, starting when the promising PC/Mac shooter called Halo became an XBox launch exclusive. There have been larger trends at play, such as the rising cost of development forcing conservative, formulaic design and multiplatform release, but the fundamental truth is that genres and franchises that were once PC powerhouses, have been absorbed by consoles and have lost a lot in the process. The chief example here is first person shooters, where the Call of Duty playbook has come to dominate shooter design and there is no such thing as a PC exclusive shooter, but RPGs are another prime example, see Fallout 3 vs. Fallout 1/2, and the stuff Bioware releases today vs. Baldur's Gate 2. Likewise, smaller more niche genres, such as space sims, turn-based tactics (thank god for XCOM!), and real time strategy have largely died out. Thankfully kickstarter and crowdfunding, alongside digital distribution like Steam and GOG, is making a PC platform divorced from the AAA console publishers a real possibility. We got treated like unwanted stepchildren for over a decade, and frankly we're all kinda glad that the console market is becoming less and less profitable.

[GroobyKrissy]

I'm sorry that I got overly personal. That was uncalled for on my part. I was becoming frustrated by the course of the argument.

You are right, however, that PC gamers feel like Consoles damaged PC gaming, because frankly that's the story of over the last decade, starting when the promising PC/Mac shooter called Halo became an XBox launch exclusive. There have been larger trends at play, such as the rising cost of development forcing conservative, formulaic design and multiplatform release, but the fundamental truth is that genres and franchises that were once PC powerhouses, have been absorbed by consoles and have lost a lot in the process. The chief example here is first person shooters, where the Call of Duty playbook has come to dominate shooter design and there is no such thing as a PC exclusive shooter, but RPGs are another prime example, see Fallout 3 vs. Fallout 1/2, and the stuff Bioware releases today vs. Baldur's Gate 2. Likewise, smaller more niche genres, such as space sims, turn-based tactics (thank god for XCOM!), and real time strategy have largely died out. Thankfully kickstarter and crowdfunding, alongside digital distribution like Steam and GOG, is making a PC platform divorced from the AAA console publishers a real possibility. We got treated like unwanted stepchildren for over a decade, and frankly we're all kinda glad that the console market is becoming less and less profitable.

Apology accepted and I also apologize if something I said was too personal as well. I can get intense in discussions and have a bit of a sarcastic streak sometimes which can get me in trouble. Also, my sense of humor sometimes doesn't come across in writing. I think if we were face to face, we'd be having a pleasant cup of coffee and talking about this.

Console gamers certainly share some blame as many PC users moved away to consoles, obviously. Still, I think the blame is somewhat misplaced.

I think you can equally put into the equation that desktop PC's are disappearing as more and more people move towards laptops, tablets, and mobile devices for content. PC Gamers and corporate business are pretty much supporting the PC market right now, which can't be good for the computer industry as a whole. The PC industry basically cannibalized itself IMO.

I was REALLY hoping that nVidia's 3D technology (which is really pretty cool) would catch on with PC gamers and help invigorate the market but the necessity for a special monitor put an end to that I think. There is still hope for all you PC gamers out there though but as you say, some PC exclusive games need to be developed. I was pretty surprised when they announced Diablo 3 for console... big mistake on their part I think but companies are all look for the $$$.

Unfortunately, I think these next gen consoles will be the death knell of PC gaming except for holdouts like yourself. When NES delivers their next console in a couple years... RIP.

[GroobyKrissy]

http://i.imgur.com/Y1DB4.gif

Find us a make-up GIF now, OK?

[dderek123]

Unfortunately, I think these next gen consoles will be the death knell of PC gaming except for holdouts like yourself. When NES delivers their next console in a couple years... RIP.
Not dead or dying PC gaming is actually making a comeback.

http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-J-308575-13.jpg

http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-L-308577-13.jpg

These charts are just a forecast and things may happen differently if the PS4 really blows us away. IMO the PS4 doesn't seem like a game changer at all. Except for the x86 architecture but that will benefit PC gamers as well since devs will need to invest less capital when developing for both platforms. I like how the new Vita can play PS4 games remotely. I think that's pretty nifty. Are there any other features I'm not aware of?

[GroobyKrissy]

Not dead or dying PC gaming is actually making a comeback.

http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-J-308575-13.jpg

http://media.bestofmicro.com/Nvidia-PC-Console,3-L-308577-13.jpg

These charts are just a forecast and things may happen differently if the PS4 really blows us away. IMO the PS4 doesn't seem like a game changer at all. Except for the x86 architecture but that will benefit PC gamers as well since devs will need to invest less capital when developing for both platforms. I like how the new Vita can play PS4 games remotely. I think that's pretty nifty. Are there any other features I'm not aware of?

I would tend to agree about the PS4. I don't think it is a game changer at all. The Xbox One has much more potential because the biggest gripe 360 users had was lack of Blu-Ray, which is fixed so you can bet that 360 users will certainly save up and upgrade... plus MS will add a bunch of new users for this reason. Also, I believe it is bundled with the new Kinect, which is nice. Skype being owned by MS definitely helps.

I'm kind of wondering about this data though. Are they considering tablet games, facebook games, etc. as "PC gaming"? If so, that is probably where the large boost is coming from... which really isn't a boost if you're talking about traditional PC gaming... sit down, keyboard, mouse...? Sorry if you've already posted the answer to this... I'm editing pictures, doing this thread, writing an article, and watching TV right now :).

[dderek123]

I would tend to agree about the PS4. I don't think it is a game changer at all. The Xbox One has much more potential because the biggest gripe 360 users had was lack of Blu-Ray, which is fixed so you can bet that 360 users will certainly save up and upgrade... plus MS will add a bunch of new users for this reason. Also, I believe it is bundled with the new Kinect, which is nice. Skype being owned by MS definitely helps.

I'm kind of wondering about this data though. Are they considering tablet games, facebook games, etc. as "PC gaming"? If so, that is probably where the large boost is coming from... which really isn't a boost if you're talking about traditional PC gaming... sit down, keyboard, mouse...? Sorry if you've already posted the answer to this... I'm editing pictures, doing this thread, writing an article, and watching TV right now :).
I think it only includes PC devices (no phones, tablets, macs etc.)
But i think it includes facebook games and whatnot:
"Nvidia doesn't break down its data according to genre or service, but much of this newly-discovered cash is coming from the social gaming crowd, as well as from new business models."
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-pc-console-sales-battlefield-3-bf3-pc-gaming,13499.html
But the versatility of a PC is one of there many strengths :)

Also:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/PC-gaming-hardware,6613.html
This is from 2008
"If PC gaming is dying, as many have claimed, why are gaming-oriented PCs selling so well? Market analyst Jon Peddie estimates that the market for PC gaming hardware stands at $20 billion today—and predicts it will expand to $34 billion by 2012."

[hemiv8]

Xbox One with Forza 5, and Battlefield 4 for me!

[LABiM75&StrF51]

`


PS3 at least for a few Generations....
These things never work right 1st Gen.



`

[dderek123]

"Who's buying and building new PCs? Gamers, that's who"
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/019112/2013-08-0714-36-20-575x100.jpg?hash=A2SyA2D1Zm&upscale=1
http://www.zdnet.com/whos-buying-and-building-new-pcs-gamers-thats-who-7000019112/

"PC gamers are, according to Jon Peddie Research, buying and building PCs "with a fervency that could be compared to motorcycle, 4X4, and sports car enthusiasts, always looking for more speed, power, utility, and handling." This is likely to be good news for all the major PC players, especially given that high-end gaming bits command a greater profit margin than budget and mainstream parts."

[hiten369]

Ps4 or xbox one and most anticipated games?

Well neither for now. Mostly because I'm to poor. But I'm leaning towards the Xbox One because Microsoft recently announced that you can self publish on the Xbox One. As a game dev that's a big win.

most anticipated games?
Here comes the long list:
Assassin's Creed 4*
Batman: Arkham Origins*
Final Fantasy 15 - if it ever comes out
Kingdom Hearts 3 - if it ever comes out
Metal Gear Solid 5
Mirror's Edge 2 - Oh hell YES!!!
The Division
Watch Dogs
The Witcher 3
Dragon Age 3 - yes I mean it, watch the PAX videos on youtube
Infamous: Second Son - only if I get a PS4

[GroobyKrissy]

I think it only includes PC devices (no phones, tablets, macs etc.)
But i think it includes facebook games and whatnot:
"Nvidia doesn't break down its data according to genre or service, but much of this newly-discovered cash is coming from the social gaming crowd, as well as from new business models."
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-pc-console-sales-battlefield-3-bf3-pc-gaming,13499.html
But the versatility of a PC is one of there many strengths :)

Also:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/PC-gaming-hardware,6613.html
This is from 2008
"If PC gaming is dying, as many have claimed, why are gaming-oriented PCs selling so well? Market analyst Jon Peddie estimates that the market for PC gaming hardware stands at $20 billion today—and predicts it will expand to $34 billion by 2012."

Pretty easy to answer the second question. People are largely uninformed shoppers. Your average Joe off the street walks into Best Buy to buy a computer. He looks for the fastest processor speed for the cheapest amount of money and maybe factors in RAM amounts. This type of computer is often going to be a budget gaming PC, which are usually billed as multipurpose machines. Fast processor, good RAM amount... the two things that drive PC sales to the average buyer. He buys a gaming PC not even intending to use it as such... he just wants a computer that will play his YouTube videos faster.

Older desktops are getting older. As the economy improves, people will replace their old machines with Windows 8 units. Many of these are considered "gaming" ready (read the stickers on the sales tags at Best Buy or Fry's) and are probably being counted in this data pool.

Also, PC gaming HARDWARE is different from actual gaming computers. Heck, I alone within the past couple months have purchased 3 "gaming mice" (MMO7) and 3 "gaming keyboards" (Roccat Isku) to replace my old ones. It doesn't mean I game with them... it means they have functions that I can use (programmable macros) to increase productivity.

Overall, these are good trends to site for the computer industry but I think the data loses some credibility when / if you're trying to apply it specifically to the gaming industry unless you can definitively prove that the purchasers are using the units and accessories for gaming purposes alone.

[dderek123]

Find us a make-up GIF now, OK?

http://images.wikia.com/glee/images/f/fe/Group_Hug_2.gif

[GroobyKrissy]

http://images.wikia.com/glee/images/f/fe/Group_Hug_2.gif

Well done :) And from one of my favorite shows :)

[dderek123]

Pretty easy to answer the second question. People are largely uninformed shoppers. Your average Joe off the street walks into Best Buy to buy a computer. He looks for the fastest processor speed for the cheapest amount of money and maybe factors in RAM amounts. This type of computer is often going to be a budget gaming PC, which are usually billed as multipurpose machines. Fast processor, good RAM amount... the two things that drive PC sales to the average buyer. He buys a gaming PC not even intending to use it as such... he just wants a computer that will play his YouTube videos faster.

PC Gamers aren't a part of this group. We're the master race. And we're growing in number and keep spending money.


Older desktops are getting older. As the economy improves, people will replace their old machines with Windows 8 units. Many of these are considered "gaming" ready (read the stickers on the sales tags at Best Buy or Fry's) and are probably being counted in this data pool.

PC Gamers wouldn't do that. I would if I was low on money though.


Also, PC gaming HARDWARE is different from actual gaming computers. Heck, I alone within the past couple months have purchased 3 "gaming mice" (MMO7) and 3 "gaming keyboards" (Roccat Isku) to replace my old ones. It doesn't mean I game with them... it means they have functions that I can use (programmable macros) to increase productivity.

I'm a bit confused by this. The numbers from those blog posts included keyboards and mice but a cpu and motherboard combo, i would guess, accounts for a lot more of that revenue in the figure. Lol keyboards and mice seriously?


Overall, these are good trends to site for the computer industry but I think the data loses some credibility when / if you're trying to apply it specifically to the gaming industry unless you can definitively prove that the purchasers are using the units and accessories for gaming purposes alone.
I see your point but it only loses some credibility not all. It's still valid to the gaming indusrty. I've used my gaming mouse and keyboard while browsing this site. That doesn't change the original concept of the device. Besides, the versatility of the PC is one of its many strengths. Definitively proving how people are making use of what they are buying would be pretty difficult. But, imagine a survey could be done to get a slightly different idea. Even then, most surveys are flawed and generally aren't that credible or valid well thats what I learned in university.

From the article:
“Retail software figures are not an accurate barometer for the health of the PC gaming industry,” said report co-author Ted Pollak. “The retail numbers don’t capture the casual and digitally distributed games, either.

"It will come as no surprise to this audience that in addition to the market for fully assembled PCs, Peddie “discovered a robust market of do-it-yourselfers and consumers who upgrade their PCs with high-performance gaming graphics boards.”

"The report also predicts that the ongoing economic recession could stymie the growth of the console gaming market because consumers might be reluctant to invest in the HDTVs needed to deliver the best gaming experience with those systems. Personal computers, Peddie surmises, are useful for a much broader range of applications than televisions and gaming consoles."

[GroobyKrissy]

Shortened and edited for points by Me :)


I'm a bit confused by this. The numbers from those blog posts included keyboards and mice but a cpu and motherboard combo, i would guess, accounts for a lot more of that revenue in the figure. Lol keyboards and mice seriously?

I see your point but it only loses some credibility not all. It's still valid to the gaming indusrty. I've used my gaming mouse and keyboard while browsing this site. That doesn't change the original concept of the device.

"It will come as no surprise to this audience that in addition to the market for fully assembled PCs, Peddie “discovered a robust market of do-it-yourselfers and consumers who upgrade their PCs with high-performance gaming graphics boards.”

"The report also predicts that the ongoing economic recession could stymie the growth of the console gaming market because consumers might be reluctant to invest in the HDTVs needed to deliver the best gaming experience with those systems. Personal computers, Peddie surmises, are useful for a much broader range of applications than televisions and gaming consoles."

A. You'd be surprised how much a good mouse and keyboard costs. My MMO7 is $149.00 and my Roccat Keyboard was $129.00. Together that is $278.99. I bought 3 of each for a total of $836.97 and I will probably replace them in all in a year (I type so much that my main keyboard already has squeaky keys (Roccat... love your keyboards but you need to solve this problem.). My accessories alone for my desktop computers equals 4 fairly decent video cards, 2 gaming grade processors, a buttload of RAM, or 2-3 very nice MOBO's. I am just one person with a main computer, an office, and a portable setup that I use with my laptop. Multiply those expenditures by all the graphics designers (I was directed to these by a graphics designer friend of mine who was saying how much time she saved using programmable macros), photo editors, photographers, etc... You've got A LOT of money there.

B. Actual usage changes the intent of the graph, which is to show that gaming is growing in strength due to gaming hardware purchased. However, if those accessories are not used for gaming at all, but just as I use them, but the data pool still counts them, it skews the data. Something marketed as gaming, and counted as such when purchased, isn't used to support the actual gaming industry... so it really shouldn't be counted.

C. Graphics cards have so many different uses it is difficult to narrow this down. My company recently purchased gaming grade graphics cards (or upgraded whole units) for all computers (I don't know an exact number but I'm guessing around 100 PC's for my floor and probably another 50 or so for the floor above) because we want everyone to have dual DVI / HDMI monitors for productivity reasons. It has nothing to do with gaming but that is a fairly large purchase of cards... or "building" of computers.

D. The last paragraph, IMO is nonsense. Most consumers who are going to purchase HDTV's have... so the equipment already exists to play console games. The TV used only touches the "experience" of gaming... it doesn't preclude it. In other words, you can still game on a yellow, red, white cable (the proper term escapes me at the moment), your experience is just diminished slightly. With a computer, if you don't have the "recommended specs", your game may barely play at all.

Good gravy... I now find myself nearing the end of the work day having accomplished very little :). I LOVE threads like this :).