Disappointed when Producers of TS content let people make jokes on our behalf

[WendyWilliams]

So I follow Steve V of Devils on Facebook and someone posted the picture I attached and then some idiot makes a comment "what kind of parent has tranny's watching their kids?" Then Mike Kulich who also produces ts content and Steve V both "liked" the comment.

Maybe Im being too sensitive but it just pisses me off that two men who make a living off our genre would think such a insensitive comment was funny or like it...........

I guess with my old age Im becoming less tolerant of "jokes" or haha moments on the back of TS women. That's why no matter how Steven and I get along or don't I know he will stand up for us. Its also nice to have TRUE producers like Nick M, Buddy, Steven, Herman, Erik, Isa, Josh Stone, Joey whom I think truly respect us as individuals.




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Mike Kulich (https://www.facebook.com/mike.kulich) hahaha you're welcome
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=
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Hamed Allen (https://www.facebook.com/666Batman) What kinda parent has tranny's watching their kids?
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Wendy Crawford (https://www.facebook.com/wcrawford1) lmao
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Timothy Ferencz (https://www.facebook.com/timothy.ferencz) That is so wrong
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Wendy Mccown-Williams (https://www.facebook.com/wendy.mccownwilliams) Hamed what kind of parents had you? IDIOT
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Wendy Mccown-Williams (https://www.facebook.com/wendy.mccownwilliams) And quite disappointed two men who make large sums of money off TS would like such a stupid and bigoted comment. Nothing funny about the comment even if that was it's intention.

[WendyWilliams]

LOL apparently he can dish it out but can't take it... Also apparently hangs out with Steve


Hamed Allen (https://www.facebook.com/666Batman) Wendy no one asked for you to open your fucking mouth and talk about my parents you punk bitch so stuff a dick in it and shut the fuck up asshole. Have a sense of humor and piss off because I'm in your backyard and best know I will smash and thrash the fuck out of you pig.

[GroobySteven]

I think the problem with Facebook is, there is no "unlike" button. Producers use it for their promotions and they're wanting people to get involved and participate on their pages. It's all too easy on FB to see the "like" button as a "I've read it".
The whole series Transsexual Babysitters is a joke title ... as I've never seen them babysit once! I don't think their liking this post by some twit as too much of a bad point - but I've never seen them advocate or stick up for TG's either (and neither of them contribute to the Tranny Awards despite the amount of money they make from the girls participating!

[WendyWilliams]

Oh and he works for a toy company called Planet Earth LOL........ he is in the Industry, truly sad.

[WendyWilliams]

So I have to give Steve V. credit he deleted the thread and apologized for the comments , especially the violent comment. He said that he refuses his posters or friends to use violence in anyway against ANYONE.

But still the lesson of this is how even in the Porn Industry we still have to fight within our Industry with bigotry and stereotypes.

Like a transsexual babysitter would do anything to a child?

Yes I know its porn but hopefully these conversations open up healthy dialogue.

[RyderMonroe]

That's really gross behavior.. I won't be working for them again...

[BellaBellucci]

Babysit? Child's play (get it?)!

I'm a mom and my kid is AWESOME!

Any questions? :geek:

~BB~

[WendyWilliams]

http://blog.wendywilliamsxxx.com/blog/so-when-is-violence-ever-the-answer/

[WendyWilliams]

So I want to write about an experience I had today that touched a sore point for me. As most know I’ve been in the Adult Industry for over 10 years. Ive encountered many versions of bigotry and stereotypes within the Industry and of course in my civilian life. One of the things I think Ive tried to do proudly is be a voice in my genre for many battles ranging from Adult Award shows, too getting more press coverage for ts models and or just being, not an advocate, but someone who really does care. Fighting stereotypes of HIV among transsexual performers, defending cross-over talent who test regularly, or just being an ear of advice to new performers within my genre. So today I was on facebook when a producer who I have known for many years Steve V. from Devils Film had a funny picture of him with the words “I want you to buy Transsexual BabySitters 27″. I found it funny and began to read the comments when one comment from a fellow Industry member kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Hamed Allen. Executive VP and COO at Planet Earth Wholesale , according to his Linkedln profile made the comment and I quote “Hamed Allen (https://www.facebook.com/666Batman) What kinda parent has tranny’s watching their kids?” Well that comment rubbed me wrong in many ways. First what is wrong with a transsexual individual babysitting a child? What does he think we would do? Turn them into a transsexual, harm them? What? The series by Devils like MANY series is a gimmick however the transsexual women who shoot for them are REAL human beings and I take offense to the comment. I then went onto comment “Hamed what kind of parents had you? IDIOT” Ok maybe not the most professional or adult reply but I was so bummed out that something that was meant to be “funny” turned into a nice jab towards a TS woman. I was also kinda disturbed that fellow ts producers Mike K. and Steve V. had “liked” his comment. Now let me say that both producers have always been civil to me but I wished they would of ignored or maybe stepped up as guys making money off our genre and said something in favor. Now to Steve’s credit he did try and make light of the comment but at this point it had gone from bad to worse. It’s the moments that follow that really made me stick to my stomach. Recently in many states including California and New York there have been transsexual women brutally murdered, in fact, hate crimes of TS women seem to be a common news story lately, so the threats of violence of anyone especially me as a trans woman I really take serious. So here are the comments from Hamed Allen who initiated the conversation with his original comment. “Hamed Allen (https://www.facebook.com/666Batman) Wendy no one asked for you to open your fucking mouth and talk about my parents you punk bitch so stuff a dick in it and shut the fuck up asshole. Have a sense of humor and piss off because I’m in your backyard and best know I will smash and thrash the fuck out of you pig.”


So there you have it I am not only called childish names but then the act of violence to “smash and thrash the fuck out of you pig”. What has the world come too in the age of social media that someone who is a COO of a company would make horrible threats and comments to a human being, sadly a fellow Industry member? Oh I can answer that, its because I’m a transsexual woman. If he had made that comment to a genetic female then people would have went off or at least I would hope so. Steve V. did say “enough of the violence comments” and then deleted the thread. Sadly not ONE single person took up for me but yet thought it was funny with comments of “LoL”. In fact one FEMALE whose profile said she worked for Devils made a comment of something like “Hamed you are better than that”. Is he?
I am sure people will think I’m being too sensitive or wonder why I am blogging about the issue but honestly I can’t sit back and allow a grown professional man to think it’s ok for him to spout off horrible insensitive comments and THREATS and think its ok, ITS NOT!


So if any of my fans or fellow Industry members want to send your concerns to his company then this is the email hamed@planetearthwholesaleusa.com (hamed@planetearthwholesaleusa.com). For Mr. Allen I am sorry you felt that I as a woman didn’t find your comments funny and you couldn’t handle my follow up comment but to threaten me with violence is wrong and you should be ashamed. I have been in the Adult Industry for 11 years and been called MANY things. I hope you take the time to reflect on your comments and also that your Company “O Planet Earth” starts with some sensitivity training.

Sincerely
Wendy Williams

[RyderMonroe]

Steve V said he told the guy off.

[WendyWilliams]

Well I hope he did but he didn't on the thread that was posted however he might have personally. They did just the night before hang out together at THE SPOT so I know they are friends.

[LilyRox]

I always hated the word tranny. It's always been the most offensive word to me. Even in the adult industry I think it should be unacceptable to refer to people as "tranny's". Even ignoring that he paints that "tranny's" are evil people that you shouldn't let your kids around. I think it's horrible.

I remember when I just started out transitioning before I was really passable I used to go out places shopping and stuff. Sometimes I would walk the mall and notice that women with baby strollers coming my way in a straight line would slowly curve off into an angle away from me. It made me very sad. I don't know why our society is like this. If she thinks I'm going to rob her or harm her baby in a public place is ridiculous. They think I don't notice, but I see it all the time. There is deeply rooted prejudice with many people and transsexuals.

[RyderMonroe]

He said they had only met the night before. And that he was "crazy".

[EvaCassini]

@ Lilly --- Same thing goes for ANYONE...who isn't a STRAIGHT, WHITE, and CONSERVATIVE person.

Tranny as a word means nothing. That's all it is, a word. There is no harm in it. Don't let something like a "word" bring you down. Words are only a conglomeration of sounds we emit. Just like "Chair", "Popsicle", "Twat", and "Cracker", they all are words, it's the context of how they are used to either sound appropriate or not.

[my my my!]

Stuff like this will keep happening as long as transsexual females keep associating themselves with words like "shemale" "chick with dick" "tranny" and hanging out on LGBT floats with hairy guys in wigs sucking each other's dicks in public view.

In most (straight, not gay friendly) people's minds, transsexual babysitter might as well be male babysitter. Someone with a "penis" babysitting children. In their eyes the potential is there for some sort of perverted rape fantasy or scenario, be it a male , or transsexual individual (their view, not mine)

[BellaBellucci]

Stuff like this will keep happening as long as transsexual females keep associating themselves with words like "shemale" "chick with dick" "tranny" and hanging out on LGBT floats with hairy guys in wigs sucking each other's dicks in public view.

In most (straight, not gay friendly) people's minds, transsexual babysitter might as well be male babysitter. Someone with a "penis" babysitting children. In their eyes the potential is there for some sort of perverted rape fantasy or scenario, be it a male , or transsexual individual (their view, not mine)

OMG! This.

... and 'shemale' is still the word that makes me want to vomit.

~BB~

[WendyWilliams]

But Ryder here is my issue with Steve. He has a platform to at least speak up when conversations come up about him because of his productions but he DONT

Case and Point

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August 22 (https://www.facebook.com/timothy.ferencz/posts/10200993275566634)[/URL]

1st he commits Treason & now he's a Tranny -- too many things, too many things..
Steve Volponi (https://www.facebook.com/timothy.ferencz#) - I see Devil's Films all of this!!! $$$$$$
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Bradley Manning: I Want To Live As A Woman
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Steve Volponi (https://www.facebook.com/UndisputedChampion4YearsRunning) oh boy.
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Julianne De'Chaump (https://www.facebook.com/julianne.dechaump) Well said
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Patti Kowalik Page (https://www.facebook.com/patti.page) I am waiting for him/her to blame her raging hormones for his treason crimes.
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Timothy Ferencz (https://www.facebook.com/timothy.ferencz) he did... that was his defense
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Wilma Ginocchi (https://www.facebook.com/wilma.ginocchi) HAHAHAHA

[WendyWilliams]

I mean just not SENSITIVE or being held for threads from his FRIENDS.

He says "oh boy"

Really?

[VictoriaVeil]

Wendy,

Next time I visit my dad in NC, I could pay Mr. Allen "a Visit" and have a "discussion" on this and many other subjects.

#pinkmafiarulez

[Rabbiteyes]

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes? :|

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

[BellaBellucci]

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes? :|

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

It's all a fantasy, though, and one fans pay for - so the line between real and make believe should be pretty clear. Try treating a porn star like a piece of meat in the real world and watch what happens! :lol:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes? :|

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.


Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

[BellaBellucci]

Wow.

~BB~

[Genetic]

Apologies for multiple quotes, lots of very good points to comment on.



I think the problem with Facebook is, there is no "unlike" button.

Yeah there is so he could have easily unliked it.



I always hated the word tranny. It's always been the most offensive word to me. Even in the adult industry I think it should be unacceptable to refer to people as "tranny's".

I agree with Jamie on this that it's a word and it only has the power you give it. Why should an entire industry change because you don't like something? I don't drink alcohol and I personally find it to be the root of a lot of society's problems. Should we stop selling alcohol because I find it offensive? I wouldn't want that to happen. It's like we tell kids - if someone calls you a name you don't like, ignore it. But then as adults we try to ban everything that we don't like. This isn't an attack on you personally, but I do think that our culture has shifted towards everyone being offended by everything.

Plus, tranny is short for transgendered. To wipe out the use of tranny, a new word would be needed to identify ts that couldn't be abbreviated to tranny.





I remember when I just started out transitioning before I was really passable I used to go out places shopping and stuff. Sometimes I would walk the mall and notice that women with baby strollers coming my way in a straight line would slowly curve off into an angle away from me. It made me very sad. I don't know why our society is like this. If she thinks I'm going to rob her or harm her baby in a public place is ridiculous. They think I don't notice, but I see it all the time. There is deeply rooted prejudice with many people and transsexuals.

Agreed because it's seen as some sort of sexual deviation rather than what it actually is. But the issue here is that it's human nature to fear things we don't understand; I'm not saying it's right but this sort of behaviour happens with a lot of minorities, not just transexuals. As a bearded man, you should see the horror I can generate if I smile at a child...cause you know, any man with a beard is obviously a child abuser and not someone who is being nice.




Stuff like this will keep happening as long as transsexual females keep associating themselves with words like "shemale" "chick with dick" "tranny" and hanging out on LGBT floats with hairy guys in wigs sucking each other's dicks in public view.

In most (straight, not gay friendly) people's minds, transsexual babysitter might as well be male babysitter. Someone with a "penis" babysitting children. In their eyes the potential is there for some sort of perverted rape fantasy or scenario, be it a male , or transsexual individual (their view, not mine)

Two very very good points. Point two comes back to what I just said above that the general public's mass-hysteria belief is that any male left alone with a child is bound to abuse them.

Point one is something that identifies a lot of problems. Firstly I've never understood the idea of "gay pride" parades where you have gay men dressed as women/fairies/sailors/in bondage gear. Surely if all year round the gay community is trying to get across that they are no different from everyone else and not the stereotypes they are portrayed as, then it's going to be a bad idea to play up to all those stereotypes on a day where there will be a lot of press coverage.

Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers. I would have thought that crossdressers generate a lot of negativity and misconceptions for ts women because it reinforces the public opinion of a biological male in women's clothes (whether transitioning or not) must be some kind of sexual deviant.



You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes? :|

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

I think there's a few things here.
1. Yes a producer should stand up to his audience. Yes he plays into stereotypes as do producers of any material, whether it's porn, mainstream movies or television, but on a forum like Facebook it gives an opportunity for open dialogue. Steve V had a very good opportunity there to change a person's perception by having a calm discussion with them.

2. I think it's unfair to blame porn fans for their perceptions of trans people. The surgery required and costs of transitioning is huge and I think it's safe to say that there is a very large percentage of trans women who do porn or escorting to pay for it. I'd be tempted to even say the vast majority although that is purely speculation on my part. Either way, it's understandable that the porn buyer will associate ts with sex work especially if they join a forum like this one and discover that all their favourite stars escort on the side?

3. Can you blame porn fans for objectifying porn stars? Surely that's the whole point of porn/any kind of titilation? The guy in the Diet Coke ads - does anyone look at him and wonder what his hobbies and interests are? Probably not, the viewer is going to be objectifying him and staring at his six pack. That's the point of it. Now is it the viewer's fault he is objectified or is it a symbiotic relationship? Diet Coke man pays his bills by objectifying himself, his audience generates ad revenue for Diet Coke by objectifying him and thereby ensure he has a job.

How many ts stars try to use their fame to develop themselves outside the objectification? The only one who springs to mind is Bailey Jay who has tried to launch a music career from it, has done her own video blog channel (or something) and tried to portray herself as more than wanking material.

[amanda_s]

Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers. I would have thought that crossdressers generate a lot of negativity and misconceptions for ts women because it reinforces the public opinion of a biological male in women's clothes (whether transitioning or not) must be some kind of sexual deviant.


That seems a strange thing to say. Crossdressers are for the most part transgendered themselves, just to a different degree to transsexuals. If you believe that transsexuals should not tolerate crossdressers because it generates negativity and misconceptions do you also believe therefore that genetic women should not tolerate MtF transsexuals because they also could generate negativity and misconceptions? There are plenty of feminists who are completely intolerant of MtF transsexuals because they believe they reinforce gender stereotypes. What about non-sex worker transsexuals, should they be intolerant of sex-worker transsexuals?


3. Can you blame porn fans for objectifying porn stars? Surely that's the whole point of porn/any kind of titilation? The guy in the Diet Coke ads - does anyone look at him and wonder what his hobbies and interests are? Probably not, the viewer is going to be objectifying him and staring at his six pack. That's the point of it. Now is it the viewer's fault he is objectified or is it a symbiotic relationship? Diet Coke man pays his bills by objectifying himself, his audience generates ad revenue for Diet Coke by objectifying him and thereby ensure he has a job.


There's a big difference between objectifying and disrespecting. There's nothing wrong with not wondering what the Diet Coke guy's hobbies and interests are but there definitely is something wrong if you judge him as somehow less than human simply because he uses his body to make a living.

[christianxxx]

deleted

[LilyRox]

Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

Yeah I agree. I don't think the context he used those words were right.

[TempestTS]

Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.


EXACTLY - porn is "what" we do not "Who" we are as a person regardless of if your a producer or a model how you carry yourself defines who you are not where your paycheck comes from. Musically Im headlining an all ages show on the 20th and I have fans specifically bringing their kids to meet me, they dont give two shits that I do porn its about how I live my life that matters.

‘Being’ is more valued than "doing". - BRUCE LEE

[Jamie French]

I like the word 'tranny'. Always thought it was cute and nothing more than shorthand for transgendered/sexual/etc. I wouldn't let anyone take it away from me.

[Rabbiteyes]

We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

We often give the general population a great deal of credit. That they are capable of differentiating fantasy from reality (tv, movies, books, commercials, porn...all generally engineered fantasies). Yet, it is shown repeatedly through every culture that these things do affect the mind and how we think about subjects (and groups of people).

This is actually a good explanation of the subtle way this works. I admit before I started to transition, I thought of trans people as drag queens or sex workers (and had rather negative views of them).

http://www.good.is/posts/how-i-learned-to-hate-transgender-people


2. I think it's unfair to blame porn fans for their perceptions of trans people.

I don't really blame them though. They see the same message over and over again of what a trans person is... so they slowly start to believe it (and apply it to every trans person).

Heck, I've seen the same thing from people who work in porn (even directed towards me). I'm not involved in the porn industry (actually I have a small game studio), but I'm still approached and treated like a working girl just trying to make a couple hundred bucks for a scene.

I don't blame them, all the trans people they know are like that. So it makes sense they would assume any trans person is probably looking for the same things. It is the same situation with fans of porn.

And, well, the entire situation of "why are trans people discriminated against" isn't just on porns shoulders. It also has a lot to do with homophobia, misogyny (which is actually related to homophobia, funny enough), and a host of other social status quo thinking.


Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers.

It would make us horrible people to turn around and discriminate against cross dressers :| The problem isn't cross dressers, the problem is the ignorant public who thinks trans are that.

It would be like a straight person distancing themselves and shunning gay people because they were afraid that association would label themselves gay (oh wait, straight people were doing that for a long time...and it proved them to be horrible cowards).

[MrsKellyPierce]

Can I just say though I find companies like Grooby, SMC, Shemalestrokers, or even Joey and Jay Sin as different in one way..They mostly only produce transsexual porn and a lot of them value or attracted to transsexuals.

A lot of these directors would rather produce straight porn or even lesbian porn, but bigger companies realize tranny porn pays..

So they may shoot us, but it doesn't necessarily mean they support us a 100%

Not that what he did is something to condone..

I think we will continue to have this insensitivity from the big mainstream companies because to them we are just a $$$$..they are not invested in the 'trans side of it/political side".

[Genetic]

That seems a strange thing to say. Crossdressers are for the most part transgendered themselves, just to a different degree to transsexuals.

I'll fully admit that I'm no expert on the subject but I'm pretty sure you're wrong there. I know men who crossdress because they enjoy it or they get sexual satisfaction from it but they are in no way transgendered. One of them is your stereotypical straight "lad" who gambles, drinks, smokes and you wouldn't suspect it of him.





If you believe that transsexuals should not tolerate crossdressers because it generates negativity and misconceptions

I didn't say I believed they should I said "I would have thought" which is very different. It's like when you see You Tube videos of a cat accepting a baby squirrel as one of it's kittens. You wouldn't think it would accept the squirrel, but it does. That doesn't mean you want the cat to kill the squirrel.




There are plenty of feminists who are completely intolerant of MtF transsexuals because they believe they reinforce gender stereotypes. What about non-sex worker transsexuals, should they be intolerant of sex-worker transsexuals?

As Rabbiteyes said, the assumption is generally that every ts is a sex worker, so I can certainly understand frustration there. I don't think anyone should hate or dislike anyone else; as above you can expect people to react a certain way without wanting them to actually do so.

Let me put it this way. Everytime someone finds out I am vegetarian they ask me if I eat fish. If you eat fish you are a pescatarian, not a vegetarian but yet there are an awful lot of people out there who incorrectly identify themselves as vegetarians who eat fish.

Those people piss me off because it means I have to explain myself and even have to reject fish dishes because many people assume that I will eat it. I think that is understandably frustrating but I always calmly explain the situation so people know for future reference.

In that example my life is being made very very slightly inconvenient by a misconception. Therefore it stands to reason that people who's lives are great disrupted due to misconceptions would harbour resentment towards the people who contribute towards the misconception. It's just logic, not an endorsement of a way to behave.




There's a big difference between objectifying and disrespecting. There's nothing wrong with not wondering what the Diet Coke guy's hobbies and interests are but there definitely is something wrong if you judge him as somehow less than human simply because he uses his body to make a living.

Now I take issue with this "less than human" schtick because feminists use it regularly. I can appreciate it must be very frustrating to be ogled or leered at or made to feel that your body (not you personally, but you as in 'one') is the most important feature of you rather than your personality. That doesn't make the person on the receiving end less than human, it simply is a lack of regard for any aspect other than their appearance.

It's the same for anorexic or obese people. The victim is being judged by their appearance rather than by their other features but they aren't being treated as less than human.

By your argument, every time someone pays another person a compliment on their looks they are dehumanising them and treating them as subhuman. That makes no sense whatsoever and is the fatal flaw in the objectifying = dehumanising argument.

What the issue here is that feminists can't seem to grasp is that there is positive attention and negative attention; nothing more than that. If a guy gives a woman a genuine compliment that she "looks lovely today" then that's a positive. If a guy says, "I'd love to bury my face in your tits" to a woman he barely knows it's negative. Neither dehumanise the recipient, it's up to the receipient to react. I know women who love that sort of crude attention though the majority hate it. Like Jamie said earlier, words (and behaviour) are subjective and it's down to the person on the receiving end to be an adult and make their own decision as to how they feel about it.

You can't be dehumanised if you don't allow yourself to be.

[Genetic]

Apologies for the double post, I tried to edit but it timed out.


We often give the general population a great deal of credit. That they are capable of differentiating fantasy from reality (tv, movies, books, commercials, porn...all generally engineered fantasies). Yet, it is shown repeatedly through every culture that these things do affect the mind and how we think about subjects (and groups of people).

Yes but we have a choice whether we allow those things to change our minds or not. Surely if all people who watched ts porn were brainwashed by it there would be no discussion here, it'd simply be every woman being told to get her tits out?





This is actually a good explanation of the subtle way this works. I admit before I started to transition, I thought of trans people as drag queens or sex workers (and had rather negative views of them).

http://www.good.is/posts/how-i-learned-to-hate-transgender-people

I would suggest then that was possibly your own ignorance? I don't buy the idea of the media brainwashing us, if that was the case wouldn't 25 years of watching horror films have turned me into a serial killer by now? There's always a scapegoat to blame: video games, rap music, heavy metal, horror films, porn, McDonalds or whatever because no one wants to be accountable for their own behaviour. Yes these stimuli have an effect for sure, but then our own internal compass should correct that.

I have never ever though of transexuals as being crossdressers or men. I probably watched all the same programs/films as you, but to me I disagreed with the opinion of Jim Carey in Ace Ventura. The whole scenario of a man discovering too late that a woman he'd kissed had a penis was obviously ridiculous because why would anyone trick someone and by doing so put themselves in a position where they would be in danger? It makes no sense.




It would be like a straight person distancing themselves and shunning gay people because they were afraid that association would label themselves gay (oh wait, straight people were doing that for a long time...and it proved them to be horrible cowards).

I would say that the issue is that straight men are afraid because being around a gay man triggers intrusive thoughts which then threatens their sexuality. Everyone gets intrusive thoughts which are against their nature but those thoughts are natural. Just because you get a thought that the gay man sucks dick so what would it taste like if you had a dick in your own mouth, doesn't make you gay but most people don't understand that.

[Rabbiteyes]

I don't buy the idea of the media brainwashing us,

So you don't "buy" a rather well known and common social phenomenon? (one that isn't even disputed by those who study it, there isn't a debate here).... Okie dokie.

[BigBlackMan]

Stop complaining. You're making roses so woman the fuck up. Geez

[Rockit_]

Stop complaining. You're making roses so woman the fuck up. Geez

What the hell? Contribute or GTFO.

[Genetic]

So you don't "buy" a rather well known and common social phenomenon? (one that isn't even disputed by those who study it, there isn't a debate here).... Okie dokie.

So you ignore everything I say and take that one snippet because conveniently it's the only thing you can dispute?

Did you read the rest of the paragraph where I explained my reasoning, that yes I agree that it has an effect but not to the degree it's claimed? We have the choice to over-ride what the media tells us, through reasoning and free will.

For the last 12 years all we've heard about is militant Islam and how Muslims are terrorists, that they are colonising the world with their higher birthrates, repeated terror threats, violence and riots, beheadings on tv and other negativities. So why is it that after 12 years of being fed that, we're probably now even more tolerant, accepting and understanding of Muslims than we were pre-9/11?

[Rabbiteyes]

you can dispute?

Yup, I can dispute :D

[BigBlackMan]

What the hell? Contribute or GTFO.

I am! Too much whining going on. If you're getting paid, who cares.

[Jackal]

So you ignore everything I say and take that one snippet because conveniently it's the only thing you can dispute?

Did you read the rest of the paragraph where I explained my reasoning, that yes I agree that it has an effect but not to the degree it's claimed? We have the choice to over-ride what the media tells us, through reasoning and free will.

For the last 12 years all we've heard about is militant Islam and how Muslims are terrorists, that they are colonising the world with their higher birthrates, repeated terror threats, violence and riots, beheadings on tv and other negativities. So why is it that after 12 years of being fed that, we're probably now even more tolerant, accepting and understanding of Muslims than we were pre-9/11?

Maybe because that is an incredible lie and prejudice against Muslims is a scourge in many different societies? If you don't think that media that promotes bigotry can influence or create more prejudice, you're absolutely ridiculous. It may not be brainwashing Clockwork Orange-style but the mass media has significant influence over the masses.

[Jackal]

Anyway, Wendy, you are not overreacting. The idea that transwomen are not trustworthy or unfit to be around children or anything like that is repulsive and the guy who made that joke is an asswipe.

[STARTUP999]

I would think that men who make their living exploiting TG ladies would have a bit more respect for them. Pretty low class.

[Nikka]

just deal with it, learn how to live with it, make money with it and let the world to go to hell

[Nikka]

I would think that men who make their living exploiting TG ladies would have a bit more respect for them. Pretty low class.

the website facialabuse exploit, sexual abuse and RAPE the girls on camera, real girls, GG's, the girls cry and they laugh at them, then they upload the scenes to efukt and all the world laughs at them, is not only tgirls

[WendyWilliams]

Edited post as this post was a tool for adult discussion on the issue.

[Jamie French]

Exploited? Never speak for free willed adults who haven't appointed you to do so. See my avatar? Do I look exploited? Sure, maybe. I directed that scene. Visceral does NOT mean morally corrupt.


I would think that men who make their living exploiting TG ladies would have a bit more respect for them. Pretty low class.

[livepersona]

God Dammit! Are you telling me there is no morals in porn?

[LilyRox]

God Dammit! Are you telling me there is no morals in porn?

Porn does have morals. The moral is to have no morals.

[Jamie French]

From director to camera man, lighting tech to performer, we all arrive on set knowing that there is a job to be done. We know what's expected of us. We have all worked out any kind of moral ambiguities about shooing porn long before the camera starts rolling. If we hadn't we wouldn't all be in the same room together.

This is not Russia, this is not some South American country, this is not Thailand. This is America and our legitimate, professional productions are in no way tied to human trafficking or forced labor. Our business is made up of adults with sound minds and a willing acceptance to capitalize on a shared predisposition towards a heightened sense of hedonistic behavior. The philosophical notion of morals play no part in how we, as professionals, relate to each other in this limited working capacity.

Saying porn is immoral is like saying Froot Loops are ill tempered. Such statements reveal a mind with fundamentally cracked foundations.


God Dammit! Are you telling me there is no morals in porn?

[tsdvdman]

just deal with it, learn how to live with it, make money with it and let the world to go to hell
I AGREE!!!..Seems a lot of crying and "why me"? If you got a niche and is making money not faking money then this shit would be nothing