Was the naming of Jenna Jameson as the 2014 Master of Ceremonies an insensitive choic

[Wendy Summers]

Was the naming of Jenna Jameson as the 2014 Master of Ceremonies an insensitive choice?

I'm going to preface my comments here with the note that I'm personally unsure of my feelings on this matter, but seeing the announcement raised enough hairs on the back of my neck that I feel like this ought to be considered.



For those unfamiliar with the background on this: In April of this year, TS performer Brittany Markham accused Ms. Jameson of assault. Charges were never filed against Ms. Jameson due to lack of evidence. From a legal standpoint she's free and clear. Ms. Markham doesn't have the best track record either so there is a potential credibility issue there as well.



But all that said, the trans community has had a long history of violence against it and there are tragic cases where there have been horrific miscarriages of justice against our victims. A little over a week ago, one of our own was brutally killed. http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130822/central-harlem/transgender-woman-dies-after-savage-beating-cops-say#video_modal_13772731841756 - this happens far too often.



Ms. Jameson has had a powerful mark on this Industry, no doubt. And as I mentioned before she's legally not charged with the crime. But the fact that there's even a allegation that she's commited violence against a transperson in a world where transpeople are regularly beaten and killed for simply being who they are, makes me feel like this decision was an insensitive one.



I'm struggling with this one. I'm struggling with this one a lot. As I said before, Ms. Jameson is not charged with a crime; but it echos with the same false dismissals which the transcommunity has faced for years.



I recognize that most will dismiss this out of hand. She's not guilty therefore it's a non-issue. But I can't shake this horrible aching in my gut over this.

Crossposted from xbiz

[iagodelgado]

Innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise one heck of a lot of folks would become guilty just because one person claims it.

[alpha2117]

It's a she said she said situation with JJ & BM and I'm sure 90%+ of the possible choices have had enemies in the biz. If JJ was truly transphobic then BM doesn't get hired in the first place so any issue between them is probably more an issue between 2 women rather than anything gender based.

[Wendy Summers]

It's not about the bias of JJ; this has far more to do with violence against transsexuals.

We've had a brutal killing a handful of days ago... one in a long string.

[GroobyKrissy]

I have no problems with this at all. It is all about intent to me, and as one of the responses already noted, it didn't sound like Jenna had an malicious intent based upon bigotry in her alleged assault since she had hired Britney as an assistant to begin with, presumably knowing her TS status.

The same goes for the XBiz Awards. If the intent of having Jenna host was to make some sort of anti-Trans statement, that would be one thing. Hard to believe and harder still to prove.

I would be thrilled if more Pornstars of Jenna's stature were to hire and have Members of the TG communities on their staff in a visible way (I didn't even know about the Britney / Jenna relationship until I read the articles back when the alleged assault happened). People will always have disagreements and unfortunately, some of those will turn into some level of violence. While I am opposed to violence in any circumstance (at least as far as this is concerned), I think this was clearly an issue between two adults in an employer / employee / friend relationship that turned sour rather than an issue between TS / non-TS individuals.

[Jamie French]

Did she attack 'cause of the 'trans' or because of the Brittany. Makes a difference.

[Wendy Summers]

I agree this was likely not an intentional slight by xbiz... And similarly I doubt JJs actions were transphobic in nature... Maybe I'm just over-sensitive to the recent beatings that it's coloring my reaction to this.

Is part of why I preface my thoughts on the topic as I feel mixed on this.

[GroobyKrissy]

I agree this was likely not an intentional slight by xbiz... And similarly I doubt JJs actions were transphobic in nature... Maybe I'm just over-sensitive to the recent beatings that it's coloring my reaction to this.

Is part of why I preface my thoughts on the topic as I feel mixed on this.

I omitted this afterthought, which is that I applaud you for even thinking in terms of this and caring at all. I get so used to getting all these emails concerning the business every day that when I saw this one with the Jenna Jameson announcement in it, this discussion didn't even cross my mind. I opened it, read it, and forgot about it 5 seconds after closing it.

It is a rare time when you can helpfully criticize someone for caring too much but a common occurrence where people do not care enough.

[Ben in LA]

Didn't Jenna speak out AGAINST the adult industry at one point?

[GroobySteven]

I just don't really care that much either way. Brittany made a big deal about bringing Jenna Jameson to the Tranny Awards last year - they pushed in the red carpet queue ahead of the real VIP's, who were the nominated girls and presenters. They had a bought table at the front and then through a bit of a tiz because I wouldn't send a complimentary bottle of champagne over to the "star" and then left half-way through, meanwhile twittering how trashy the girls looked (when 95% of them looked fabulous).

Jenna was very nice to me when I said hello - but seemed "spaced out" (ahem). Brittany I've always got on well with but is a law unto herself (remember when she smacked Bob in the head ... that was assault!). I don't know what really happenned between her and Jenna but I don't really believe the half of it, on either side - and don't really care.

Choosing Jenna Jameson for Master (?) of Ceremonies? It could be a disaster given her recent form - not just making news about the Brittany incident but elsewhere. Remember when she was at the AVN Awards and made the big announcement about being out of the industry and putting the industry down, now she's taking any old job to keep herself relevant.

[GroobySteven]

Didn't Jenna speak out AGAINST the adult industry at one point?

Yes at AVN a few yrs ago. She was well boo'ed.

[EvaCassini]

I just don't really care that much either way. Brittany made a big deal about bringing Jenna Jameson to the Tranny Awards last year - they pushed in the red carpet queue ahead of the real VIP's, who were the nominated girls and presenters. They had a bought table at the front and then through a bit of a tiz because I wouldn't send a complimentary bottle of champagne over to the "star" and then left half-way through, meanwhile twittering how trashy the girls looked (when 95% of them looked fabulous).

Jenna was very nice to me when I said hello - but seemed "spaced out" (ahem). Brittany I've always got on well with but is a law unto herself (remember when she smacked Bob in the head ... that was assault!). I don't know what really happenned between her and Jenna but I don't really believe the half of it, on either side - and don't really care.

Choosing Jenna Jameson for Master (?) of Ceremonies? It could be a disaster given her recent form - not just making news about the Brittany incident but elsewhere. Remember when she was at the AVN Awards and made the big announcement about being out of the industry and putting the industry down, now she's taking any old job to keep herself relevant.


Dayum!

It was weird at the last Tranny Awards, because when I saw Jenna, I had no clue it was "Jenna Jameson". I just thought she looked very familiar. Didn't speak with her or anything, just glances. Then I found out the next day that she was indeed JJ. Then to my curious mind, I inquired, "Why was she at an awards gala for Trannies." It didn't make sense, and from what you said above about how she acted, as if she was Donald Trump or Mel Gibson, that attitude being within our niche kind of makes me feel a bit creeped out. Especially since she has done and said some "off/awry" things about the industry

I get that Brittany was "working" for her or whatever, but bringing her along....what does that prove? What did she have to gain? Other than getting into a kerfuffle because of petty drama. idk...

[RyderMonroe]

Jenna released a statement to E! following the incident with Brittany where she called Brittany a man. I think it's pretty clear she's a transphobe.

[EvaCassini]

Da-fuq?

[Ben in LA]

Yes at AVN a few yrs ago. She was well boo'ed.

I thought so. Flip-flopping, I see.

And to think I used to be a Jenna Jameson fan...

[RyderMonroe]

I saw on E! A day or three after the incident but then I never heard or saw it again. My guess is someone told Jenna's ppl how guilty it made her look and they made it disappear.

[EvaCassini]

but hey, it's still known, no matter how much her "people" try to "delete" it. And knowing this, I don't think we should give her anything. She's been given so much already from her fame, why should we give her anything else and more?

There are 3 things I absolutely disdain in this world, and they are: Ignorance, Arrogance, and Stupidity...it seems that she has all 3. Not a nice person, no matter how "famous" she thinks she is.

[LilyRox]

She's smart enough to know that even bad press is sometimes good press and this just proves it. As for the whole Markham vs Jameson thing goes it's all she said this, she said that as I see it. I mean in this entire industry as whole who do you think they're going to believe the GG "Queen of porn" or TS Britney Markham? Without hard evidence that Britney didn't try to "rob her" this is barely a mark on Jameson's image as whole. She has too many die hard supporters to get shunned for allegations.

[EvaCassini]

The reason "Bad Press" is bad, is because it's "bad". For example, if someone were to tell the masses outrageously terrible stories, true and/or false, about said bad person, this is not good for said person's "Public Image".

Just because people are talking about said "Bad person" doesn't mean that that person is getting "good press".

Examples: Mel Gibson, Michael Jackson, Brittany Spears, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Anthony Wiener, Bob Filner, Jenna Jameson, and the list goes on and on.

On the other hand, if someone being spoken about or getting bad press, who is a good person, "bad press" for them is still not good, but it does bring more notice to said person and the positive things they are doing, even though some corn-fed, right-wing, fascist, news media calls them evil.

Examples: Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, Christopher Hitchens, Brian Greene, Michael Schummer, Jacque Fresco, Mahatma Gandhi, and so on and so on.

Mud-slinging goes both ways. In Jenna's case, even though she may have or have not assaulted Brittany, what has been done and the negative things she has said about Brittany and the "Trans-community" as a whole ( to include OUR TS Porn niche ), really detracts from her "public image". Not helping her at all.

[LilyRox]

The reason "Bad Press" is bad, is because it's "bad". For example, if someone were to tell the masses outrageously terrible stories, true and/or false, about said bad person, this is not good for said person's "Public Image".

Just because people are talking about said "Bad person" doesn't mean that that person is getting "good press".

Examples: Mel Gibson, Michael Jackson, Brittany Spears, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Anthony Wiener, Bob Filner, Jenna Jameson, and the list goes on and on.

On the other hand, if someone being spoken about or getting bad press, who is a good person, "bad press" for them is still not good, but it does bring more notice to said person and the positive things they are doing, even though some corn-fed, right-wing, fascist, news media calls them evil.

Examples: Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, Christopher Hitchens, Brian Greene, Michael Schummer, Jacque Fresco, Mahatma Gandhi, and so on and so on.

Mud-slinging goes both ways. In Jenna's case, even though she may have or have not assaulted Brittany, what has been done and the negative things she has said about Brittany and the "Trans-community" as a whole ( to include OUR TS Porn niche ), really detracts from her "public image". Not helping her at all.

Infamy and fame often boarder very close sometimes. Jameson may have lost many supporters from trans community, but also caught the attention of many people again. I mean I can't recall the last time Jameson has gotten so much limelight. Even though it is for a very negative circumstance. It really doesn't matter to the majority of people or she wouldn't be getting the award. It may have even helped her, sadly. Like I said she has die hard fans that wouldn't blink an eye if she beat the shit out of a TS and said that she tried to rob her.

The criminal news media is also cancer. Casey Anthony has gotten more fame than Caylee Anthony while making money. You can call it infamous, but it really doesn't matter in the end if they're getting money, attention, and support. It doesn't help our society, if anything it helps breed criminals that want to be infamous. This is why you start getting these criminals that come up with outrageous plots to murder countless people just to get air time. This is the world that we live in today.

[bluesoul]

But the fact that there's even a allegation that she's commited violence against a transperson in a world where transpeople are regularly beaten and killed for simply being who they are, makes me feel like this decision was an insensitive one.

i don't think judging her strictly from an allegation is right. the case was thrown out because of lack of evidence. the other party has a track record of being deceptive. for example: this (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=74539)

i rest my case

[Silcc69]

Yes at AVN a few yrs ago. She was well boo'ed.

You know if she found religion?

[EvaCassini]

Just because she gets limelight about her drug addictions, DUIs, assaults, and extreme right-wing political views, does not mean it's "good" for her.

I really never cared for her as a porn performer and especially with her personality, not so much as a model citizen/role-model.

[BellaBellucci]

It's a she said she said situation with JJ & BM and I'm sure 90%+ of the possible choices have had enemies in the biz. If JJ was truly transphobic then BM doesn't get hired in the first place so any issue between them is probably more an issue between 2 women rather than anything gender based.

I know from experience that people hire transsexuals for two questionable reasons (as well as the occasional altruistic one):

a) being able to claim solidarity with the LGBT community (tokenism)

b) transsexuals have had hard lives are are more eager to please (desperation)

Not every cis person who hires a trans person does so because they're accepting, nor do many hate us. Many times, cis people have us around simply because we're vulnerable.

I don't know Jenna, but I know Britney was really excited about the opportunity with her. I feel awful for her, but without evidence, there should be and likely will be little to no outrage.

Sorry Brit. There are other fish in the sea. I'm sure you'll find your place eventually.

Blind Melon - No Rain - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qVPNONdF58)

~BB~

[EvaCassini]

I know from experience that people hire transsexuals for two questionable reasons (as well as the occasional altruistic one):

a) being able to claim solidarity with the LGBT community (tokenism)

b) transsexuals have had hard lives are are more eager to please (desperation)

Not every cis person who hires a trans person does so because they're accepting, nor do many hate us. Many times, cis people have us around simply because we're vulnerable.

I don't know Jenna, but I know Britney was really excited about the opportunity with her. I feel awful for her, but without evidence, there should be and likely will be little to no outrage.

Sorry Brit. There are other fish in the sea. I'm sure you'll find your place eventually.

Blind Melon - No Rain - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qVPNONdF58)

~BB~

~BB~

:iagree:

Notice how big companies in this country decide to hire Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Gays, Trans, Lesbians, Married, Single, and what have ya....so they claim a great demographic for public appeal.

Big Company - "Work for us, we pay well, and we hire the Gays because that allows for US straight folks to get government grants and use that money for your "straight mans" Xmas bonus."

[BellaBellucci]

:iagree:

Notice how big companies in this country decide to hire Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Gays, Trans, Lesbians, Married, Single, and what have ya....so they claim a great demographic for public appeal.

Big Company - "Work for us, we pay well, and we hire the Gays because that allows for US straight folks to get government grants and use that money for your "straight mans" Xmas bonus."

I actually didn't even think of that. I was thinking more about my personal experience as a DJ where with whom everyone I work seems to want to tout that they have a 'tranny DJ' as soon as they book a gay a bar. I've quit jobs over it.

I can rock a laptop and a mic (as well as more vintage equipment) ANYWHERE and 99% of people have no idea I'm trans. Just let me work and don't pigeonhole me, ya know?

~BB~

[LilyRox]

Just because she gets limelight about her drug addictions, DUIs, assaults, and extreme right-wing political views, does not mean it's "good" for her.

I really never cared for her as a porn performer and especially with her personality, not so much as a model citizen/role-model.

Charlie Sheen was the same way too. Now he has his own show. Bad press can be turned into good press if you know what you're doing. Jameson knows exactly what she's doing.

[fred41]

You know if she found religion?

Is "religion" a code name Oxycontin?...lol

[GroobySteven]

I hired someone to fill my "gay" role and then found out he was straight. Very disappointing. Any wheelchair bound, lesbian, single parent, Tibetans need a job?

[GroobyKrissy]

I hired someone to fill my "gay" role and then found out he was straight. Very disappointing. Any wheelchair bound, lesbian, single parent, Tibetans need a job?

I don't think hiring yourself really counts.

[EvaCassini]

Charlie Sheen was the same way too. Now he has his own show. Bad press can be turned into good press if you know what you're doing. Jameson knows exactly what she's doing.

Know why Charlie Sheen has his own new show??? He's fucking rich. He can do what-the-fuck-ever-he-wants, AND he's a man, and an actor...with a famous lineage...nothing can go wrong for him. None of the bad press helped Charlie. Only his wealth, that's it. Lots of people still don't like him, but he can make money for producers and corporations.

Jenna Jameson has only one thing she is good at...PORN. She can't "rebound" like Charlie can.



I hired someone to fill my "gay" role and then found out he was straight. Very disappointing. Any wheelchair bound, lesbian, single parent, Tibetans need a job?

HAHAHA. :p

[up_for_it]

I don't think you should really be tearing yourself up over this one Wendy. Regardless of the legal outcome of Markham vs. Jameson, you've seized the opportunity to take a stand against violence towards TS women, a crime which unfortunately is all too often ignored by police, swept under the rug publicly, or even applauded in societies across the globe. That's what counts.

[Wendy Summers]

i don't think judging her strictly from an allegation is right. the case was thrown out because of lack of evidence. the other party has a track record of being deceptive. for example: this (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=74539)

i rest my case

That's a major reason why I was unsure how I really felt on the issue...


For those that care my followup post over on xbiz and as far as I'm concerned my last statement on the topic:


Wow... just wow. I meant to encourage discourse, but certainly not this.

I woke up this morning discomforted by the news. But, as I stated in my OP, I wasn't really sure it was justified.

During the course of today I've seen so many people attack me for things I haven't even said... putting words in my mouth that just aren't there

From my OP:

"I'm going to preface my comments here with the note that I'm personally unsure of my feelings on this matter"

It's not a judgement of the people involved in that situation (either side).

It's not an xbiz did something willfully horrible thread.

It's also clear no one else has had this resonate with them here or in the trans community.

I'm probably projecting my growing discomfort at the increasing frequency of violence against transwomen, "Making it a transgender issue where there was none" as Howard pointed out.

At this point I'm over it. I don't plan to comment or discuss this again.

[zerrrr]

I think she is doing this because of her recent divorce from Tito Ortiz. They had a troubled marriage in which he beat her and was charged for it.

http://www.celebuzz.com/2010-05-06/jenna-jameson-explains-domestic-violence-charges-against-tito-ortiz/

Now that they are separated he is badmouthing a former employer in the UFC and giving bad advice to some fighters under his wing.

Jenna is trying to move on with her life and it seems as though she is struggling with the transition from porn to real life to divorcee.

I am not trying to defend her but it seems like her personal relationships had a lot of problems along with personal problems of her own.

[Ben]

Did she attack 'cause of the 'trans' or because of the Brittany. Makes a difference.

Yes.... Was it a hate crime???????
I can't see Jenna Jameson being antagonistic/hateful towards TGs.... But I could be wrong.

[Ben in LA]

Wendy, I'd love to see the original post...as well as the comments...

[alpha2117]

I'm still going with the fact that if we banned every girl in the industry who had ever got into a catfight with another girl (whether that be TG or GG) you'd be looking at a pretty empty room. To me the Brit v JJ thing was two drama queens trying to be colleagues and inevitebly falling out. It's impossible to be certain who was at fault but in the end that doesn't matter - neither came out of it looking good. That said it was a pretty minor issue in the grander scheme of things.

When I was 15 I punched a Vietnamese guy in my class who took a swing at me first - it doesn't automatically make me anti asian - it just made me a stupid aggro 15 yo (as was he). 2 days later we were playing football together and laughing. l

[bluesoul]

That's a major reason why I was unsure how I really felt on the issue...

here is the problem i still see. you expressed concern about jenna being mc (master of ceremonies) based on the 'accusation' made by britney markham.

if you had, instead, expressed concern based on a number of accusations made by multiple parties, i'd see you're reason for concern, but 1 accusation?

secondly, the party making the accusation is not a reliable source. would you still express the same concern if the party was not a transsexual?

here are my personal thoughts about jenna jameson in regards to this matter:

1). i think she's very attractive
2). i find her personal character to be of question (i.e. she admitted to voting for romney because "i'm rich")
3). i've never watched any of her pornographic features

i'd like to call for a recess :whistle: (thanks ben)

[bluesoul]

Did she attack 'cause of the 'trans' or because of the Brittany. Makes a difference.

good catch. the quid pro quo mechanics would be in favor of britney: use me for my tranny status and i'll use you for the status.


I know from experience that people hire transsexuals for two questionable reasons (as well as the occasional altruistic one):

a) being able to claim solidarity with the LGBT community (tokenism)


this is also the case for people that hire minorities (depending on the country you live in) to show they're not racist. again, it's strictly about judgement.

i can't imagine jenna jameson (who in a documentary claimed she was more lesbian than hetrosexual) needed a transsexual pornstar to claim solidarity with the lgbt community. she could, i just see it more as being unlikely than likely :geek: