Question about Dubai?

[maddygirl]

Ok, so my boyfriend is from Dubai but lives here in USA with me. He has to return for his visa and he wants me to visit him there. I know this is a strict country and I'm just uncertain about how they will view me as a transsexual? I'm post-op, but still I'm worried.. I don't want him to get in trouble, so is it best if I wait for him to return?

[fedbah]

I would wait. DUBAI is part of the kingdom of U.A.E. more modern than most middle east countries, but just recently a GG was arrested forhaving sex out of wedlock (when she was reporting a rape). Not to mention a well known TS escort had a very bad experience while she was there. Your BF may be nice, but his countries archaic laws are not alternative lifestyle friendly.

[bluesoul]

have you talked to your boyfriend about your worries and questions about visiting? what did he say? my suggestion to you is to have a long chat with him (on skype) or e-mail him detailing your concerns and questions.

[Prospero]

I would take his advice as he lives there. is he arab? Dubai can e very harsh on westerners on issues of sex and if you were going to visit to escort i would strongly advise against it. But as his girlfriend should be fine.

[runningdownthatdream]

I'm going to disagree with Prospero on this - don't take the advice of your boyfriend at all. In this case let research on Islamic law and Arab culture guide your decision. In a culture which seriously represses women, believes all Western women are whores, and does things like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy

You might want to think twice about visiting there as a single woman.

[maddygirl]

have you talked to your boyfriend about your worries and questions about visiting? what did he say? my suggestion to you is to have a long chat with him (on skype) or e-mail him detailing your concerns and questions.
He thinks I should go. He said I'll be fine. But I'm worried. Honestly, more than anything I'd just be scared I'd break a law without even knowing or thinking about it and end up in jail. Lol. Also, I just don't want to cause problems for him.

[bluesoul]

don't take the advice of your boyfriend at all.

if you're going to say this, why not just tell her to break up with her boyfriend then? why should she ignore the advice of someone that she's in a relationship with and who has better knowledge of the laws of his home country, than anonymous members of an internet forum?

also, what if her boyfriend is best friends with the sheikh? most members of the royal family (and their friends who are juiced in) break their own laws on a weekly basis.

the one thing i can warn you about dubai (the middle east in general) is that it's REALLY hot. it's like 110F.

[Prospero]

And I am going to disagree with runningdownthatdream. I have been to Dubai often. It is a place where transexuals are treated badly but if you are 100 per cent passable and have a passport as a female and are with your man provided you don't act in any overt sexual way in public then you should be fine. However if he is Arab then there is also a prejudice against local men having foreign female partners. So you must weigh carefully what you do. If his visa issue can be resolved quickly then why not wait in the US for his swift return. But don't let media scare stories shape your decision. There are thousands of western women who live and work in Dubai.

[maddygirl]

I'm going to disagree with Prospero on this - don't take the advice of your boyfriend at all. In this case let research on Islamic law and Arab culture guide your decision. In a culture which seriously represses women, believes all Western women are whores, and does things like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy

You might want to think twice about visiting there as a single woman.
Wow, that's scary. Reporting a rape and getting arrested..jeez.

[maddygirl]

And I am going to disagree with runningdownthatdream. I have been to Dubai often. It is a place where transexuals are treated badly but if you are 100 per cent passable and have a passport as a female and are with your man provided you don't act in any overt sexual way in public then you should be fine. However if he is Arab then there is also a prejudice against local men having foreign female partners. So you must weigh carefully what you do. If his visa issue can be resolved quickly then why not wait in the US for his swift return. But don't let media scare stories shape your decision. There are thousands of western women who live and work in Dubai.
Thanks for your input. Yeah, he's Arab, and I trust him because it's his home. I'll have to think about it. Yes, I could wait for him to return as well, but he doesn't seem worried about me coming or think I'll have problems, oh well, thanks for your opinion.

[bluesoul]

He thinks I should go. He said I'll be fine. But I'm worried. Honestly, more than anything I'd just be scared I'd break a law without even knowing or thinking about it and end up in jail. Lol. Also, I just don't want to cause problems for him.

have you told him all this? let him know your concerns then ask him how he knows you'll be fine.

also, note that the news stories anyone gives you are extreme cases. people have been traveling to dubai for years with no problems (many foreign gg's work there as prostitutes). however, there is truth to middle eastern countries being unfavorable to "alternative lifestyles".

i think a major question here would be whether it would be worth the trip. what does this bf mean to you? i think you should talk to him about it and also do a little research on your own. the more you know, the better

[Prospero]

I agree with bluesoul. For further info on what CAN happen you should read the blog of Asian Phoenix... Tia... who was imprisoned and raped in Dubai while working as a TS escort. I have personally seen a TS being beaten by the police where.

In both cases these girl were escorts which I know you are not.

But it is important to know what you are doing.....

[runningdownthatdream]

I agree with bluesoul. For further info on what CAN happen you should read the blog of Asian Phoenix... Tia... who was imprisoned and raped in Dubai while working as a TS escort. I have personally seen a TS being beaten by the police where.

In both cases these girl were escorts which I know you are not.

But it is important to know what you are doing.....

I think your affection for Arabic culture is influencing your advice. Let's be brutally honest here - it is a well-documented fact that women are repressed and marginalized in Arabic and Muslim countries. Dubai is both Arabic and Muslim. It's also well-documented that Western women are viewed in an even LESS favourable light than the aforementioned native women who are repressed and marginalized. One doesn't need to read only Western media to see the ignorant and frankly reprehensible treatment of women, LGT, non-Arabs, and non-muslims by Arabic Muslims all over the middle-east.

Frankly, a Western woman, unmarried, and non-Muslim would be taking major risks visiting any Arabic Muslim country without knowing a good deal about the culture and laws governing women even down to the local customs.

[Prospero]

I do not have an especial affection for arabic culture. (But a deep and professional interest in it and in Islam which is different. I am about to embark on a major trip to that region - including war zones - to make a series of documentary films) I have worked out there widely for nearly a decade. I fully realise the shortcomings of Muslim attitudes to women and i have spent a lot of time in Dubai with the community there - working with westerners and arabs. I mentioned the risks that transexuals especially face there. I do not know Maddy and do not know how passable she is ... a crucial concern in a place like Dubai. (If she is NOT passable then I would counsel against visiting) Of course attitudes are bad.... especially in Gulf states. Should we boycott places where women are discriminated against. That is an argument of course. But i re-iterate there are many hundreds, if not thousands, of women from the west who live and work there every day and socialize who enjoy perfectly safe lives (providing they observe the local rules. You do not party in public. You do not sexually misbehave in public at all.) My cousin for instance, a mixed race girl from the Uk (part white enlgish part afro caribbean) has lived and worked in Dubai for some years. First as a single woman and later marrying an englishman who met there. She has not had issues out there. Ever.

There is a lot of exaggeration in the reportage of what goes on in these places.

But yes Maddy should indeed be very careful. She will be moving in Emirati circles rather than expat ones by the sounds of things so that in itself places her outside the protective circle of the western community.

[bluesoul]

One doesn't need to read only Western media to see the ignorant and frankly reprehensible treatment of women, LGT, non-Arabs, and non-muslims by Arabic Muslims all over the middle-east.

yes, the western media. but have you read the middle eastern media to "see" how they view women?

also, i disagree about your claim that western women are viewed in a lesser light than their arab counterparts. in fact, westerners living in dubai earn a bigger salary than arabs. and most sheikh's who like to indulge in a little hedonism prefer western women (particularly blondes) for their entertainment.

coincidentally, so do i. fancy that!

[runningdownthatdream]

yes, the western media. but have you read the middle eastern media to "see" how they view women?

also, i disagree about your claim that western women are viewed in a lesser light than their arab counterparts. in fact, westerners living in dubai earn a bigger salary than arabs. and most sheikh's who like to indulge in a little hedonism prefer western women (particularly blondes) for their entertainment.

coincidentally, so do i. fancy that!

Uhhhh....read what I wrote again. I said you don't have to read ONLY Western media. If you read regional news - as I do - you'd learn that the Western media actually misses a lot more negative shit about women over there.

As far as you other comment - let me ask you this: do you know any muslims? have you ever visited a muslim country? have you read Arabic or muslim history?

What I've written previously is based on knowledge of Arabic and Muslim culture, of my own experiences, and from experiences of others related to me. Where are you drawing your advice/conclusions from?

[bluesoul]

Uhhhh....read what I wrote again. I said you don't have to read ONLY Western media. If you read regional news - as I do - you'd learn that the Western media actually misses a lot more negative shit about women over there.

As far as you other comment - let me ask you this: do you know any muslims? have you ever visited a muslim country? have you read Arabic or muslim history?

What I've written previously is based on knowledge of Arabic and Muslim culture, of my own experiences, and from experiences of others related to me. Where are you drawing your advice/conclusions from?

so, by this statement: "you don't have to read ONLY Western media" you actually meant middle eastern media as well? most americans, when they read this only consider the major north american news networks and maybe the british ones.

as far as do i know muslims. yep. actually grew up amongst some. visited the u.a.e. twice (once with my sister who is unmarried) as well as kuwait and saudia arabia (not with my sis on the last two).

i've not read arabic or muslim history. i'll admit ignorance on both those topics. perhaps the magnitude of my knowledge on both (or one of) is that i know all muslims must at least once go to mecca. and that muhammad is the prophet and allah is god. beyond that, i'm as blind as a bat.

i also know most middle eastern countries are hostile towards gays and transsexuals and some still practice marrying children to old men. and then there is the other side: the middle east is actually really beautiful, the women are extremely attractive, the land is wealthy etc.

you can't just concentrate on one thing and say "yeah, the middle east is a fucked up destination". i bought some pretty sweet gold stuff @ the gold souk in downtown dubai when i was there. i definitely came out winning-

oh and i'll tell you a really nice story about a party i attended in kuwait. it (the party) was amazing.

[LilyRox]

I think you would regret going there.

[bluesoul]

i disagree with lilyrox. this is your chance to meet the pink panther gang, and get their autograph (tell them i sent you):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MQAjIIQbjM

[templeton_uk]

I think your affection for Arabic culture is influencing your advice. Let's be brutally honest here - it is a well-documented fact that women are repressed and marginalized in Arabic and Muslim countries

Have you actually been to Dubai... Saudi Arabia it aint.

I've been to Dubai many times, I have don't have 'affection' for Arabic Culture, but Dubai is about as far removed from 'Arabic' culture as you can get without leaving the Middle East.

I have more fun there than I do in London... just don't be a dick and you don't get in trouble.

Would I go to Saudi Arabia. Hell no.

[templeton_uk]

I do not have an especial affection for arabic culture. (But a deep and professional interest in it and in Islam which is different. I am about to embark on a major trip to that region - including war zones - to make a series of documentary films) I have worked out there widely for nearly a decade.

I've been doing a lot of work in Libya since the revolution - give me a shout if you are heading into North Africa...

[runningdownthatdream]

Have you actually been to Dubai... Saudi Arabia it aint.

I've been to Dubai many times, I have don't have 'affection' for Arabic Culture, but Dubai is about as far removed from 'Arabic' culture as you can get without leaving the Middle East.

I have more fun there than I do in London... just don't be a dick and you don't get in trouble.

Would I go to Saudi Arabia. Hell no.

I haven't been to Dubai and frankly have no interest in the place. I'd rather brave Yemen or Saudi and play by their rules because they make no bones about what those rules are. These Arabic Muslim countries mimicking the West yet still under Sharia law frighten me. They wear a face to attract foreigners but are controlled below the surface by Islamists and can flip on a dime.

Bear in mind that I'm not saying one shouldn't go to Dubai but rather that it's a risk for a young, Western, relatively inexperienced, unmarried woman to go there without having strong relationships with powerful people. No matter how much liptstick you stick on a pig - it's still a pig.

[runningdownthatdream]

so, by this statement: "you don't have to read ONLY Western media" you actually meant middle eastern media as well? most americans, when they read this only consider the major north american news networks and maybe the british ones.

as far as do i know muslims. yep. actually grew up amongst some. visited the u.a.e. twice (once with my sister who is unmarried) as well as kuwait and saudia arabia (not with my sis on the last two).

i've not read arabic or muslim history. i'll admit ignorance on both those topics. perhaps the magnitude of my knowledge on both (or one of) is that i know all muslims must at least once go to mecca. and that muhammad is the prophet and allah is god. beyond that, i'm as blind as a bat.

i also know most middle eastern countries are hostile towards gays and transsexuals and some still practice marrying children to old men. and then there is the other side: the middle east is actually really beautiful, the women are extremely attractive, the land is wealthy etc.

you can't just concentrate on one thing and say "yeah, the middle east is a fucked up destination". i bought some pretty sweet gold stuff @ the gold souk in downtown dubai when i was there. i definitely came out winning-

oh and i'll tell you a really nice story about a party i attended in kuwait. it (the party) was amazing.

Yep - I hear you. As someone who's traveled a bit, I'm all for adventures and all for seeking out fun times with beautiful women. In this case, however, it would appear to me that Maddy isn't a seasoned world traveler and in particular haven't been to the Middle East. I think it behooves those of us who have had experience to offer something in the way of caution when visiting that region.

But that may just be me and my penchant for being cautious.

[Queens Guy]

I don't think you should go.

Why go to a country where punishing a rape victim is even possible? Why go to a country that enforces Sharia law, when it suits their whim? Can you even enjoy your vacation if this is all in the back of your mind?

If you want to meet his family, do it when they go to a country that allows Human Rights.

[bluesoul]

Yep - I hear you. As someone who's traveled a bit, I'm all for adventures and all for seeking out fun times with beautiful women. In this case, however, it would appear to me that Maddy isn't a seasoned world traveler and in particular haven't been to the Middle East. I think it behooves those of us who have had experience to offer something in the way of caution when visiting that region.

But that may just be me and my penchant for being cautious.

there is nothing wrong with caution- in fact, i think it's good to be cautious. but i think you're advice that maddy should just flat out ignore her boyfriend and not even give going to dubai a second thought was a bit much. frankly, i think the u.a.e is actually one of the most tolerant arab countries.

[Quiet Reflections]

If all your paperwork says you are female and you are post-op then you should go and make sure you follow their rules and laws to help avoid any trouble.

[Paladin]

I would stay in the US. Even if you are 100% post op, you run severe risks. That Norwegian woman was actually sentenced to 16 months in jail and it took over a month for the the Norwegian gov't to get here out. and she was "pardoned" - not acquitted.

You will have NO rightes while there.

And it IS hot - not 110 but more like 120. I know.

[TempestTS]

wouldnt do it - boyfriend or no boyfriend - you cant count on anyone to be able to protect you at all times and the kind of trouble you can get into over there tends to be rather scary...

[asianphoenixx]

Ok, so my boyfriend is from Dubai but lives here in USA with me. He has to return for his visa and he wants me to visit him there. I know this is a strict country and I'm just uncertain about how they will view me as a transsexual? I'm post-op, but still I'm worried.. I don't want him to get in trouble, so is it best if I wait for him to return?

I'm the right person to ask.

As some people have already mentioned, i have been there four times, and the last time got arrested because i was becoming too popular in the country.

If you are a post op and you have already had your operation, and all your legal papers, especially your passport written "FEMALE", you are good to go.

And if you are passable, I will guarantee 100% you will be allowed to enter the country.

They will not know your history. It's not written on the passport, so just chill.

Just take it easy, Dubai is also a very touristic city, they need tourists to visit the country

They might check your luggage, so make sure do not put something suspicious in your luggage, like sex toys or (lots) condoms

Have fun and say hello to the boys. I miss them a lot

Tia Phoenixx

[asianphoenixx]

I do not have an especial affection for arabic culture. (But a deep and professional interest in it and in Islam which is different. I am about to embark on a major trip to that region - including war zones - to make a series of documentary films) I have worked out there widely for nearly a decade. I fully realise the shortcomings of Muslim attitudes to women and i have spent a lot of time in Dubai with the community there - working with westerners and arabs. I mentioned the risks that transexuals especially face there. I do not know Maddy and do not know how passable she is ... a crucial concern in a place like Dubai. (If she is NOT passable then I would counsel against visiting) Of course attitudes are bad.... especially in Gulf states. Should we boycott places where women are discriminated against. That is an argument of course. But i re-iterate there are many hundreds, if not thousands, of women from the west who live and work there every day and socialize who enjoy perfectly safe lives (providing they observe the local rules. You do not party in public. You do not sexually misbehave in public at all.) My cousin for instance, a mixed race girl from the Uk (part white enlgish part afro caribbean) has lived and worked in Dubai for some years. First as a single woman and later marrying an englishman who met there. She has not had issues out there. Ever.

There is a lot of exaggeration in the reportage of what goes on in these places.

But yes Maddy should indeed be very careful. She will be moving in Emirati circles rather than expat ones by the sounds of things so that in itself places her outside the protective circle of the western community.


Every time, I cross the border in Muslim country, it is important to choose whom you are going to meet in the border/immigration check.

When I was in UAE, the MALE immigration officer gave me a signal to see him in his booth (he showed an obvious body language that he really liked me) and I followed his signal and went to his booth and showed my passport which is written MALE, but he allowed me to enter the country.

Same thing happened when I was in Tunisia and Israel.

Beauty is really a powerful weapon. Sad but true

and this is the funny thing, when I was about to leave Israel, i went to FEMALE immigration officer. And I had to spent four hours being interviewed and thoroughly body check.

C'est la vie...that's life

[asianphoenixx]

last but not the least, this was what they said about me, the androgynous person at the time, who even did not have boobs: "you are more precious than a woman"

Another evidence that male sexuality is very complex.

And here I am now with boobs...and business is decreasing LOL.
I should take my implants off lol. Joke!

[bluesoul]

A TS will be treated badly if she isn't 100% passable,, what a load of BS.

it's not bs. it's true. and it happens everywhere- not just in dubai, not something prospero made up.

[SXFX]

I suggest you call up the embassy and ask.....

[asianphoenixx]

I suggest you call up the embassy and ask.....

don't

Arabs are used to having "two faces", 2 moral values
Arab men love pretty boys and transsexuals.
Some like us so much, more then they like women. No wonder i could earn 80K in 4 days. It's hard to believe, but that's the reality.

However, since the religion forbids them to do that, they will deny the fact that they like us in public, and might even punish us if necessary, for the sake of "good name"

Somebody just mentioned earlier, that the sheiks and sheikas very often break the laws, as a matter of fact, there is no law in UAE. Sheik Mohammed is the law, and he can do whatever he wants. He is the God in his country.

I met 5 sheiks within 4 days, each of them spoke fluent english and had american or european education, but once i got caught, everybody was "gone". If they wanted, they could release me with one single phone call, but nobody did.

[Castor_Troy05]

I've been to Dubai a few times and I love the place, but I have heard so many horror tales of trans women there. My filipino girlfriend is supposed to be travelling to the UK via there, and I'm wondering if any girls here have experience of transit via Dubai, if the passport still says male

[maddygirl]

Well,I've just realized I'll need a tourist visa to travel there anyway.

[tsmiel]

I am so glad to came across with this forum. And reading all the past experiences of TS ladies.

I, myself is a ts girl from the Philippines and I am visiting the emirate of Abu Dhabi very soon. To prepare with the unexpected I have been reading a lot of of things online just to know and get enlightened about what is the reality I am about to take.

The big problem I am facing right now is that I am male in my passport. And I have been planning things when I am in the Abu dhabi airport. One of which is to completely dress like a male and and secondly would be to wear a very short wig. Do you think this is good idea to do?

I do hope to hear some of your suggestions.

Lots of hugs,
Miel

[tsmiel]

I'm the right person to ask.

As some people have already mentioned, i have been there four times, and the last time got arrested because i was becoming too popular in the country.

If you are a post op and you have already had your operation, and all your legal papers, especially your passport written "FEMALE", you are good to go.

And if you are passable, I will guarantee 100% you will be allowed to enter the country.

They will not know your history. It's not written on the passport, so just chill.

Just take it easy, Dubai is also a very touristic city, they need tourists to visit the country

They might check your luggage, so make sure do not put something suspicious in your luggage, like sex toys or (lots) condoms

Have fun and say hello to the boys. I miss them a lot

Tia Phoenixx

Hi Tia,

Mabuhay! :)

Based from what I have read here I am sure you could definitely give me some advice as to what I need to do to face the complexities I am getting into.

I am certain about the huge risk and danger but everything is set and I am going in the Emirates very very soon. You have no idea about how I feel right now. :(

I have a handful questions, is it okay to bring hormones? I am bringing packs of HRT pills. I would like to get through the Immigration without any questions or problem so my plan is to dress neutral (jeans and white shirt) but the problem would be my long hair. RIght now I still cant imagine myself cutting it so my plan is to wear a male wig.

Hope I could hear from you soon..



Hugs,
TS Miel

[Prospero]

Regarding carrying HRT pills or anything that would arouse suspicion. Is there anyway you can mix these with something fully allowed like aspirins. Don't hand carry them. Ship them through.

Yes - Sheikh M is the government in Dubai and the law there. But he is beyond reach for ordinary people and Dubai can be very aggressive to TS girls. Even while, in private, they love them.

If your passport says male, then if you can in anyway be a male when you travel be that. Why not cut your hair and in the Emirates (if you are working) wear a wig. From our picture you look very feminine. But if your passport says male you may have issues.
And Abu Dhabi is not Dubai. It is stricter... and with less places to be yourself. Be very careful. They block most adult sites on the internet. So advertising can be difficult. If you base yourself in a hotel - which most visiting girls do - then be very careful to try and vet your customers. You could get busted (and Tia will tell you the results)
Yes - you can make a fortune there as an escort (£80,000 in four days. Wow!!!) But take great care.