Whoa...This shit is serious! Tranny*****$10,000 REWARD***** - t4m - 36 (costa mesa)

[btmmale4toptg]

I too have had a tgirl I was dating steal from me while living in my home, thankfully nothing ever as bad as this though.

Be careful guys, especially inviting a stranger into your home, this happened to me, and it can happen to you too! This wasn't a fast hook up, this was with a girl who lived with him.

To all the good girls out there, maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...and you only have girls like this (and there are a lot out there) to blame for it.

[Falling]

Holy Shit like hitting lotto but that's a big reward...

[runningdownthatdream]

Fuck off with this bullshit: "To all the good girls out there, maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...and you only have girls like this (and there are a lot out there) to blame for it."

WTF does this story have to do with women? Its a story about a loser who decided to allow someone into his house without knowing anything about that person. His motivation was shallow and base - FREE SEX! Or at least that's what he thought he'd get. Instead he had the tables turned on him. Fuck him and fuck you for posting this shit and trying to make it seem as if the issue is about not being able to trust women.

[my my my!]

That's why (and no offense to the girls here) you always get a New Apartment when you want to move in with a TS. Something simple. If she's the "buy me a new 4 bedroom house with really fancy furniture NOW!" type, break up with her, or get a really serious upper six figures job. Buy some furniture, good looking of course, preferrably used, that way if she pulls that shit, you don't lose AS MUCH.

If you already live somewhere and need to put your stuff in storage, just rent a storage place or ask a friend or relative.

If she is not all about the money and truly loves you, then you move out of the apartment in a couple of years and actually get a house, but that's after you establish a really serious relationship and truly "know" her.

[btmmale4toptg]

Fuck off with this bullshit: "To all the good girls out there, maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...and you only have girls like this (and there are a lot out there) to blame for it."

WTF does this story have to do with women? Its a story about a loser who decided to allow someone into his house without knowing anything about that person. His motivation was shallow and base - FREE SEX! Or at least that's what he thought he'd get. Instead he had the tables turned on him.



So that makes it right? :-/

Maybe his motivation was to help out a young girl in need and *maybe* find love or an actual girlfriend in the process, and she just took advantage of him and used him for everything he was worth?

Even if all he wanted was to fuck her, still, does that make it right to steal from him?

He opened up his home to her, gave you food, shelter and a place to sleep. I don't get why she needed to "turn the tables on him"...WTF did he do to her that was so bad that he deserved to be stolen from?

I've met a LOT of girls like this, the MO is the same. They act all nice and sweet but it doesn't take long to see the evil inside them.

This mentality that too many girls who escort have, that unless a guy is going to give you *something*, he isn't worth your time and you're a fool for "giving it away" for free is getting old.

A whore will always be a whore and they prey on guys who have good intentions for whatever they can get from it.

[runningdownthatdream]

It's not right for ANY person to steal from another person - particularly not from old and/or disadvantaged people.

The point is simple: gender or profession has nothing to do with a person's character. Ms Vasquez might be a thief but she's not a thief because she's either transsexual or an escort. It's in her character - she had a need, saw an opportunity, and took what she wanted without regard for the feelings to others. Just in the same way the creep thought he would take advantage of her bad situation to get himself some free sex without using proper judgement. What fool takes a stranger into their house, gives them access to their property and money, puts them in their own bed and then expects that person to just play along?

Living is about wants and needs, give and take. He wanted free sex and the ego-boost of being some kind of saviour from a young girl and he got it. Said young girl needed money and she got it. He forgot to ask himself what she wanted with him. And he found out the hard way.

[BellaBellucci]

Cool story, brah.

~BB~

[Donkey]

...and she wasn't even hot.

[LilyRox]

"She began attacking my elderly neighbor."

Obvious craigslist troll is obvious.

[Donkey]

^ My thoughts too.

The elderly neighbor bit was over the top.

[LilyRox]

It also doesn't make sense why he would have a picture of her holding her own drivers license. Unless he found her drive license and he likes to get manicures.

[Rabbiteyes]

Yea, of course when you let someone stay with you , you also hand them all your banking information so they can take 100k ?

Seems legit.

[Rozayrifa]

She prolly n mexico now

[btmmale4toptg]

Another thing I wanted to warn the guys about here was an experience I had once when a girl I was interested in wanted to bring her friend along when I invited her over to my place. I didn't think much of it at the time, so I said yes.

Sounds fun, huh? Two girls at once. TAKE WARNING!! The other girl was only used as distraction. While one girl kept me occupied, the other went rifling through my stuff!

Yeah, I got "tag teamed" alright, but not how I had imagined!

And no, I didn't get laid...it didn't take me long to figure it out, and I threw them out. Thankfully all they stole from me was an Ipod touch, but, they did get *something* and a half a bottle of vodka...

So, keep that in mind when you think you're about to live out a fantasy, and it ends up turning into a nightmare.

NEVER AGAIN!!

[Ben in LA]

I saw that ad. I should've started this thread!

[Ben in LA]

Another thing I wanted to warn the guys about here was an experience I had once when a girl I was interested in wanted to bring her friend along when I invited her over to my place. I didn't think much of it at the time, so I said yes.

Sounds fun, huh? Two girls at once. TAKE WARNING!! The other girl was only used as distraction. While one girl kept me occupied, the other went rifling through my stuff!

Yeah, I got "tag teamed" alright, but not how I had imagined!

And no, I didn't get laid...it didn't take me long to figure it out, and I threw them out. Thankfully all they stole from me was an Ipod touch, but, they did get *something* and a half a bottle of vodka...

So, keep that in mind when you think you're about to live out a fantasy, and it ends up turning into a nightmare.

NEVER AGAIN!!
I've heard this story quite often...sorry, brah. (Seriously.)

[Lovecox]

This story is too one-sided to be true, but if it is, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

If you let a stranger into your house and allow them access to your valuables, you are taking a risk. Does this really need to be explained to an adult?

The man who says that he was just trying to help someone out is being disingenuous. Does he also try to help out people that he is not sexually attracted to? an older disabled man, for example? Probably not. He's expecting sex and love in return for what he sees as his magnanimity. He thinks that the girl he's "helping out" is going to be so overwhelmed by his generosity that she is going to fall helplessly in love with him. When that doesn't happen the man becomes resentful and demonizes the girl.

If you have no street smarts, or even common sense, do yourself a favor: don't let your overblown romantic fantasies, or your cock, do your thinking for you. Don't let anyone into your home unless you know and trust them. If you meet someone at their home or hotel don't bring anything valuable with you unless it was part of the deal.

[btmmale4toptg]

I've heard this story quite often...sorry, brah. (Seriously.)

Thanks Ben...yeah, it sux, just wanted to warn other guys about it.

[Jimmy W]

If any part of this bullshit is true, then this dipshit got what he deserves.

[bluesoul]

the interesting thing is that this story is posted on craigslist. that's where he felt he could reach his audience the best.

[wearboots4me]

Yea, of course when you let someone stay with you , you also hand them all your banking information so they can take 100k ?

Seems legit.

Maybe he didn't give her the information, perhaps she stole it?

[littletwink]

Don't act like he's the only one who's ever been pussy(cock)-whipped before.

[btmmale4toptg]

I find it interesting how a few posting here seem to think it was ok to steal or that this guy somehow deserved to be stolen from...

kinda fucked up thinking if you ask me...

[tsdvdman]

I find it interesting how a few posting here seem to think it was ok to steal or that this guy somehow deserved to be stolen from...

kinda fucked up thinking if you ask me...
:iagree:....don't you know to most of these guys the girls can do NOTHING wrong. Even if it is stealing from someone who was helping her out.

[btmmale4toptg]

:iagree:....don't you know to most of these guys the girls can do NOTHING wrong. Even if it is stealing from someone who was helping her out.

I guess that's the problem too

[GroobySteven]

:iagree:....don't you know to most of these guys the girls can do NOTHING wrong. Even if it is stealing from someone who was helping her out.


Agreed.

[bluesoul]

I find it interesting how a few posting here seem to think it was ok to steal or that this guy somehow deserved to be stolen from...

kinda fucked up thinking if you ask me...

i don't think that's what's happening here - even though i do agree there are those who always seem to think the girls can do no wrong. i think what everyone has a problem with is how naive this guy was.

did he really open up his home in exchange for sex or did he have no secondary motive? if this is the case, then don't we have to question his decision making process- or at the very least, his choice on who he chooses to trust? and if she's stealing from his neighbors, isn't he at least to blame for that because he introduced them to her? technically, he seems to have not entertained the idea that "these girls can do no wrong".

and one last thing: bringing someone into your home isn't helping them. if he really wanted to help this person, he should've introduced her to resources or institutions better suited to provide help.

if anything, i kinda feel for how stupid some guys can be.

[btmmale4toptg]

i don't think that's what's happening here - even though i do agree there are those who always seem to think the girls can do no wrong. i think what everyone has a problem with is how naive this guy was.

did he really open up his home in exchange for sex or did he have no secondary motive? if this is the case, then don't we have to question his decision making process- or at the very least, his choice on who he chooses to trust? and if she's stealing from his neighbors, isn't he at least to blame for that because he introduced them to her? technically, he seems to have not entertained the idea that "these girls can do no wrong".

and one last thing: bringing someone into your home isn't helping them. if he really wanted to help this person, he should've introduced her to resources or institutions better suited to provide help.

if anything, i kinda feel for how stupid some guys can be.


A lot of girls don't want help, they just want to take whatever they can get as this one did.

[Infern0]

Hmm....

The guy must have been a bit of an idiot if you ask me, first sign of trouble and should have been on top of it

Also making this a trans issue is kind of redundant, anyone can be a thief

[btmmale4toptg]

Hmm....

The guy must have been a bit of an idiot if you ask me, first sign of trouble and should have been on top of it

Also making this a trans issue is kind of redundant, anyone can be a thief

But tgirls you date all the time complain guys don't want to share any of their personal lives with a girl. This one did, and look what happened!

[TLC4ALL]

My wife has stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from me. She's still at it. I'd offer a reward, but she won't let me.

[trish]

But tgirls you date all the time complain guys don't want to share any of their personal lives with a girl. This one did, and look what happened!
So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?

[btmmale4toptg]

So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?


Trish...no offense, I wish I could say this was just one bad apple, unfortunately its more the norm than the exception. I think there are many here who don't argue that point.

In my OP, I did say, "To all the good girls out there, maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...and you only have girls like this (and there are a lot out there) to blame for it."

[bluesoul]

So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?

i think you missed this:


I've heard this story quite often...sorry, brah. (Seriously.)

[tsdvdman]

So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?
I am totally surprised by your comment. I always took you to be brighter than this

[trish]

...its more the norm than the exception.Norm
noun
1. Something that is usual, typical or standard.
2. A standard or pattern, esp. of social behavior that is typical or expected of a group.

So you have evidence or (at the very least) it is your opinion that thievery is typical of transsexual women. It is expected behavior. Those of us who don't are the non-typical exceptions. This based on what? This anecdotal story which may not even be true? Other stories you have heard that support this belief? Your own vast experience? Is that experience sufficiently extensive to distinguish the behaviors of transsexuals from women, or from men, or from people in general with regards to thievery? A friend of mine had a male apartment-mate who stole her bass guitar and sold it. What can we deduce concerning the behavior of men from her experience?


...maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...Being open and sharing means being free and honest with the expression of your thoughts and desires (something I'm not convinced the guy in your anecdote understood). If someone complains that you're not open and sharing, they're probably not asking to move in with you. They rather suspect you're holding back, hiding significant feelings, desires, thoughts etc. You can open your home and fuck them five times a day and still not be open and sharing. Of course that wouldn't give them the right to steal from you. Look, there is every reason in the world, why you shouldn't open up your home to someone you haven't yet grown to trust implicitly. But there is little warrant for not being open and sharing with people in regards to your thoughts, feelings, passions, etc. That's the only way you're going to ever develop a healthy bond and a strong relationship.

[trish]

I am totally surprised by your comment. I always took you to be brighter than this
What surprises you? I paraphrased the general principle from which the OP drew his conclusion that transsexuals are generally thieves and asked if it can be used to deduce guys are jerks.

[runningdownthatdream]

I am totally surprised by your comment. I always took you to be brighter than this

Just reinforces what I insinuated in another thread: you either don't take the time to read and understand or your prejudices are so ingrained that you simply believe what you want to believe.

Anyone who pays attention to what Trish writes (which is always carefully thought out) should know that the original post wouldn't sit well with her. Seriously my brother, YOU are the one that should know better.

[tsdvdman]

Just reinforces what I insinuated in another thread: you either don't take the time to read and understand or your prejudices are so ingrained that you simply believe what you want to believe.

Anyone who pays attention to what Trish writes (which is always carefully thought out) should know that the original post wouldn't sit well with her. Seriously my brother, YOU are the one that should know better.

IDK what other thread you are talkin about..but I actually agree with you regarding Trish post. I tend to hold her to a higher standard due to in large part her intelligent and seemingly well thought out responses, and because she's not all over every single thread just because she is one of the girls.
However..with that being said. I was still taken back with her initial reaction here which somewhat implied a blame the victim simply because the "perp" was a trans

[tsdvdman]

What surprises you? I paraphrased the general principle from which the OP drew his conclusion that transsexuals are generally thieves and asked if it can be used to deduce guys are jerks.

And yet we hear countless stories where girls have stolen directly or through escorting transactions..etc. It obviously doesn't make all girls thieves but one can certainly empathize with why the OP feels the way he feels right now

[runningdownthatdream]

IDK what other thread you are talkin about..but I actually agree with you regarding Trish post. I tend to hold her to a higher standard due to in large part her intelligent and seemingly well thought out responses, and because she's not all over every single thread just because she is one of the girls.
However..with that being said. I was still taken back with her initial reaction here which somewhat implied a blame the victim simply because the "perp" was a trans

I don't think its about blaming the victim so much as it's about 'buyer beware' which is an edict we should follow whenever there is an exchange of goods. What I - and others - are taking issue with is the stupid post which more less says 'Beware Tranny'. The chaser got burned and is trying to flip the script and make the situation about 'Trannys' instead of about his own stupidity. Kinda like the idiots who fall for the Nigerian scam: if those people weren't greedy and trying to make huge profit from little expenditure they wouldn't have been scammed! I don't blame the scammer in that case - he's only trying his hustle.

[trish]

And yet we hear countless stories where girls have stolen directly or through escorting transactions..etc. It obviously doesn't make all girls thieves but one can certainly empathize with why the OP feels the way he feels right now
Empathize, yes. Justify, no. There is no warrant to the claim that thievery is the norm among transsexuals and no warrant for not being open, honest and forthcoming in all of one's relationships including those with transsexuals (which doesn't mean you have to share your home with anyone who invites themselves to move in).

[btmmale4toptg]

Norm
noun
1. Something that is usual, typical or standard.
2. A standard or pattern, esp. of social behavior that is typical or expected of a group.

This based on what? This anecdotal story which may not even be true? Other stories you have heard that support this belief? Your own vast experience? Is that experience sufficiently extensive to distinguish the behaviors of transsexuals from women, or from men, or from people in general with regards to thievery?

Trish,

First of all, I never said ALL Transsexuals were thieves, in fact, I never even said the word in any of my postings on the topic. Someone else said "thieves". The OP CL posting I believe is true, and yes, in that case she sole from a guy who sounded like he tried to help her.

I base my opinion on my own personal experiences and from exclusively dating trans women for 20+ years, basically my entire adult life. I never said ALL trans women were like this either, There are good girls out there and I'm sure you are one of them, unfortunately, there are more who just use men for whatever they can get than not. If my opinion and experience counts for nothing with you, than so be it.

My point was to say:

1. This is more typical behavior than not
2. This is why guys don't trust trans women.

I do have compassion about how hard it is in the world for most trans women. Nor am I bashing trans women. However, this is a common problem within the trans community and if you disagree with that, then you are looking at the worlld with your eyes closed.

[trish]

... this is a common problem within the trans community and if you disagree with that, then you are looking at the worlld with your eyes closed.Or perhaps I'm looking at a superset of the sample of transwomen whom you have "dated".

How does one even get to the point where he has "dated" transwomen exclusively for the last score years? Surely they aren't chance encounters; and if not chance encounters, then your sample isn't random and your conclusions are drawn from a sample with a built in bias. I'm not saying your eyes are closed, but that your experience is from a POV that may not allow such a broad generalization as "this (thievery) is more typical behavior(among transwomen) then not."

[btmmale4toptg]

Or perhaps I'm looking at a superset of the sample of transwomen whom you have "dated".

How does one even get to the point where he has "dated" transwomen exclusively for the last score years? Surely they aren't chance encounters; and if not chance encounters, then your sample isn't random and your conclusions are drawn from a sample with a built in bias. I'm not saying your eyes are closed, but that your experience is from a POV that may not allow such a broad generalization as "this (thievery) is more typical behavior(among transwomen) then not."

Trish,

My POV is shared by many men who date trans women...and when I say date, I don't mean use escorting services either.

Again, I never said in ANY of MY generalizations that most trans women are thieves.

How does one get to the point of dating trans women exclusively?

Let me ask you then, how does one get to the point of dating women exclusively?

men exclusively?

It's just the way it is and what is right for me, always has been and always will be.

Do you question a straight man or gay men how they "even get to the point where he has "dated" ??? exclusively for the last score years?" That's just silly to even question.

[BigBlackMan]

You can't trust women like bella

[trish]

...Again, I never said in ANY of MY generalizations that most trans women are thieves. Read your own post #33, I quote

Trish...no offense, I wish I could say this was just one bad apple, unfortunately its more the norm than the exception.Odd, but I never seem to meet transwomen at market, in the library or at the hardware store. Well maybe I have, but we’re both just too busy with our lives as women to go around introducing ourselves to strangers as transwomen. Unless we’re capitalizing on our somewhat unique situation (emphasis on capital), we really don’t want people to distinguish us, or even be able to easily distinguish us, from other women. So given that most of us are passing undercover (so to speak), just how are you finding all these transwomen that you’ve been “dating” for the last twenty years? Have you access to a plastic surgeon’s patient list? Perhaps you are a doctor who specializes in transitioning therapies and you “date” your patients. Or maybe you search Craigslist and escort sites for potential “dating” material. Perhaps you habituate specialty clubs and bars cruising for transgender “dates”. Forget why you would have been doing any of this for the last twenty years, and simply consider that it just may be the case that the larger portion of transwomen have ordinary, run of the mill jobs and lives and simply can’t be found by the methods you employ to ferret out transgender women from the rest. If for example, you’ve drawn largely from the pool of transsexual escorts, then your sample skews toward women who’s profession is to make money by exploiting the male libido while maintaining a safe emotional distance from their client. Look, if I was trying to find my life-mate on LonelyNoMore.com and all my LonelyNoMore dates were either thieves, addicts or losers, I wouldn’t conclude that it's the more toward the norm for men to thieves, addicts or losers than toward the exception. My first inclination would be to hypothesize that the pool of men available at LonelyNoMore was skewed toward thieves, addicts and losers. Whatever your method, it’s inherently biased.

Here’s my advice. If you want a serious relationship with a woman, just engage the women that you chance to meet with forthrightness and honesty. Don’t rush things. Make friends and see where things lead.

Must the woman you love have to have a dick? Must they be pre-op? Or post-op? Have big tits with puffy pink areolae? Or sport a dragon tattoo? If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, you may not be looking for a relationship, you may simply be seeking to satisfy a fetish. And no, this is not at all analogous to gays seeking gays, lesbians seeking lesbians or men and women seeking each other. Transgender is not a sexual orientation. Now don’t get me wrong; it’s actually a lot of fun to be the object of a man’s fetish and give him the fantasy night or the fantasy week of his wettest dreams. But no mentally healthy man or woman would regard that as the focus of a meaningful relationship. If the woman you fall in love with happens to be a transsexual and you accept her as a woman, then she’s lucky. But if the woman you fall in love with was deliberately chosen to be transwoman, then I wouldn’t be surprised if things eventually unravel for the two of you, as they apparently have done over and over again for twenty years.

[pimpdog]

If you act like a TRICK, how you gonna cry when somebody gets over on you? dudes want one thing, and cry when the girls want one thing too, its a two way street.

[pimpdog]

Shit, alot of GG prostitutes will do ALOT worse then steal from you, they will set you up for there pimp to tie your ass up, and take more then money.

[Foggy]

When my dick starts earning me money, I'll let it do my thinking for me.

Until then...

[bluesoul]

Shit, alot of GG prostitutes will do ALOT worse then steal from you, they will set you up for there pimp to tie your ass up, and take more then money.

so what about male prostitutes then?

[Foggy]

so what about male prostitutes then?

You're allowed to beat them up.

[pimpdog]

How about this, if somebody is using you for money, do you really expect the not to steal? and if your using them for sex, can you really act like a victim? use your fucking brains guys, if you some old creepy fuck, nobody wants you, if you wanna play the game, you gotta pay, period, and you will probably get jacked, I know alot of girls I know, I go to the sugar daddies houses when there at work, swim in there pool, eat there fuck, fuck and leave.

[dderek123]

eat there fuck?

[pimpdog]

eat there food, auto text on the phone lol.

[runningdownthatdream]

How about this, if somebody is using you for money, do you really expect the not to steal? and if your using them for sex, can you really act like a victim? use your fucking brains guys, if you some old creepy fuck, nobody wants you, if you wanna play the game, you gotta pay, period, and you will probably get jacked, I know alot of girls I know, I go to the sugar daddies houses when there at work, swim in there pool, eat there fuck, fuck and leave.

Lay it down for these clowns!

[dderek123]

eat there food, auto text on the phone lol.

Haha it happens

[african1]

I too have had a tgirl I was dating steal from me while living in my home, thankfully nothing ever as bad as this though.

Be careful guys, especially inviting a stranger into your home, this happened to me, and it can happen to you too! This wasn't a fast hook up, this was with a girl who lived with him.

To all the good girls out there, maybe this will help you to understand why guys aren't so quick to open and share their lives to you...and you only have girls like this (and there are a lot out there) to blame for it.

Don't blame Deborah. She did what her DNA told her to do. Most of them are like that.

[btmmale4toptg]

Read your own post #33
Quote:
Trish...no offense, I wish I could say this was just one bad apple, unfortunately its more the norm than the exception.



And where do I say "thieves" in that quote???

[trish]

You said, "bad apple." Thief, bad apple, etc., in the context of this thread, they are stand-in words for people who can't be trusted. Let's not let pedantry derail the conversation.

[Kevin Dong]

With tgirls daily here and I've never been robbed except once where it was my own fault. Been doing this for 3 years this month.

[trish]

Yes quite definitely thievery is a running theme in this thread and btmmale’s contributions to it. He too has been robbed by a tranny and in his experience she’s not just one “bad apple” but represents the norm for transgender women. So, he goes on to warn us all, don’t trust trannies. I can only presume by “bad apple” he means a girl who is prone to untrustworthy behaviors that verge on criminal.

I empathize with him. It sucks to be stolen from. It sucks to feel like for twenty years you've been serially betrayed by a multitude of girls. One might be inclined to conclude that transgender women are not to be trusted, that it is more the norm for them to be prone to untrustworthy behaviors perhaps verging on the criminal, than the exception. But without an examination of his own part in these failed relationships we have been given no warrant to draw such a conclusion, especially in light of the fact that his sample is biased by his own attempts to select and date trannies exclusively (Just how is he finding these girls? Most of us are not to be found on escort lists, cam sites, any other sort of venue or list one might procure) and his conclusion is contrary to the experiences of many others.

[btmmale4toptg]

Most of us are not to be found on escort lists, cam sites, any other sort of venue or list one might procure) and his conclusion is contrary to the experiences of many others.

Trish,

Seriously? Really? Do we live on the same planet? Are you simply in denial of what reality is?

Now I would like to live in a world where your statement was actually true, however, remove the "not" from your sentence and then you would be living in reality.

Actually the opposite of what you say IS reality! If you cannot agree with that then you're just another delusional tgirl with a warped sense of what is actually real and what is not.

[trish]

Seriously? Really?Yes. Really. Most people who transition don't do it to become models, escorts or porn stars; neither do most pay for their transitions by doing any of those things. It's time to ask yourself what world you're living in and why all of your relationships in the past twenty years have left you feeling badly about transsexuals in general.

[Nikka]

serious shit

[Foggy]

Yes. Really. Most people who transition don't do it to become models, escorts or porn stars; neither do most pay for their transitions by doing any of those things. It's time to ask yourself what world you're living in and why all of your relationships in the past twenty years have left you feeling badly about transsexuals in general.

I'd love to see the statistics on that. The girls who do hook or do porn are the one's who are in the eye of the public of course. and that's what people are going to base their opinion on...unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

What baffles me is why so many choose to transition into bitchy, self-centered, vacuous women.

[bluesoul]

What baffles me is why so many choose to transition into bitchy, self-centered, vacuous women.

why do you think they transition to become that? perhaps they've always been bitchy, self centered vacuous men before

[trish]

"I can see two tiny pictures of myself
And there's one in each of your eyes.
And they're doin' everything I do.
Every time I light a cigarette, they light up theirs.
I take a drink and I look in and they're drinkin' too.
It's drivin' me crazy.
It's drivin' me nuts"

___Sharkey's Night (Laurie Anderson).

[hwbs]

i am sure the ad is bs but as guys in this scene u do have to think with the correct head...from a guy who has been around a while and has seen it all

[btmmale4toptg]

Yes. Really. Most people who transition don't do it to become models, escorts or porn stars; neither do most pay for their transitions by doing any of those things. It's time to ask yourself what world you're living in and why all of your relationships in the past twenty years have left you feeling badly about transsexuals in general.

Trish,

Once again, you are far away from reality in your statements. I live in the real world, I don't know which world you're living in.

[tsdvdman]

Yes. Really. Most people who transition don't do it to become models, escorts or porn stars; neither do most pay for their transitions by doing any of those things. It's time to ask yourself what world you're living in and why all of your relationships in the past twenty years have left you feeling badly about transsexuals in general.
Trish, as much as I usually respect your input and opinions I think you are dead wrong on this. I'm actually shocked that you would take such a hard narrow view

[trish]

It's a narrow view that most people who transition are not models, escorts or porn stars?! I would've thought the opposite view was the narrow one. It would be narrow if I were implying that modeling, escorting or being a porn star was a bad thing. I'm not. I was once an escort myself and have no regrets.

I think maybe your getting too much of your perspective from sexually oriented sources. Most transsexuals are trying to pass in society as women; i.e. they don’t advertise their transsexuality. Moreover transsexuals are still mocked by society in general and they prefer to avoid being identified as transsexual. On the other hand girls who are making a living from their transsexuality are going to advertise in the appropriate venues. If a guy only looks for transsexual women in venues where they are exploiting their sexuality to lure clients, then of course you’re going to get a rather warped and silly view of transexuals, who they are and what they’re about.

[Foggy]

why do you think they transition to become that? perhaps they've always been bitchy, self centered vacuous men before

C'mon...how many bar trannies do you want to spend more than an hour with?

[trish]

Aw c'mon, don't be so bitchy.

[tsdvdman]

It's a narrow view that most people who transition are not models, escorts or porn stars?! I would've thought the opposite view was the narrow one. It would be narrow if I were implying that modeling, escorting or being a porn star was a bad thing. I'm not. I was once an escort myself and have no regrets.

I think maybe your getting too much of your perspective from sexually oriented sources. Most transsexuals are trying to pass in society as women; i.e. they don’t advertise their transsexuality. Moreover transsexuals are still mocked by society in general and they prefer to avoid being identified as transsexual. On the other hand girls who are making a living from their transsexuality are going to advertise in the appropriate venues. If a guy only looks for transsexual women in venues where they are exploiting their sexuality to lure clients, then of course you’re going to get a rather warped and silly view of transexuals, who they are and what they’re about.

I only get a small aspect of my perspective from sexually oriented sources as it is only a small portion of my everyday life,,,especially the ts scene. However..it does feel as though you feel obligated to defend and even ignore the fact that many of the girls who escort and live that "hustlers" lifestyle are thieves and will steal in a New York minute..lol
I understand your personal view from YOUR experiences may be different because you seem to have intellectual stimulation and goals outside of this cocoon...but you are the few and far between.
Also...I'm not sure if you are trying to compliment your peers or not..but denying ones transexuality by trying to avoid being identified as such would in fact proclaim being ashamed of what and who you really are. I thought it was FUCK what society in general thinks..I am who I am..etc..etc. But if (according to you) they are going through life hiding and trying to avoid being seen as a transexual..that may in fact be the ultimate motive for a lot of girls who would run into a decent situation with a guy trying to help them or just look out for them...yet they have no idea how to embrace or appreciate it so they just rob steal and use up thier welcome mat until it's over. It makes sense according to you theory Trish.

[trish]

many of the girls who escort and live that "hustlers" lifestyle are thieves and will steal in a New York minute..lolHave you comprehended my posts? I'm arguing for the integrity of transgender girls in general, not escorts. If you're claiming most escorts are thieves I may or may not agree with you, but that still doesn't warrant the attempt of some here to generalize that claim to transsexuals in general, or to imply transsexual escorts are less trustworthy than escorts in general.


I'm not sure if you are trying to compliment your peers or not..but denying ones transexuality by trying to avoid being identified as such would in fact proclaim being ashamed of what and who you really are.Do you know what "passing" means? We're women, and wish to be recognized as such without question or controversy. We endeavor to pass.

[sukumvit boy]

"I can see two tiny pictures of myself
And there's one in each of your eyes.
And they're doin' everything I do.
Every time I light a cigarette, they light up theirs.
I take a drink and I look in and they're drinkin' too.
It's drivin' me crazy.
It's drivin' me nuts"

___Sharkey's Night (Laurie Anderson).
Yeah , Trish!
William S Burroughs readings and Laurie Andersons' music...what a great collaboration that was!

"Sun's going down ,like a big bald head
Behind the boulevard
It's Sharkey's Night.
Yes
It's Sharkey's Night tonight!"

Sharkey's Night - Laurie Anderson - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2yA2Wrtvg)

[bluesoul]

C'mon...how many bar trannies do you want to spend more than an hour with?

i don't understand the question

[tsdvdman]

Have you comprehended my posts? I'm arguing for the integrity of transgender girls in general, not escorts. If you're claiming most escorts are thieves I may or may not agree with you, but that still doesn't warrant the attempt of some here to generalize that claim to transsexuals in general, or to imply transsexual escorts are less trustworthy than escorts in general.

Do you know what "passing" means? We're women, and wish to be recognized as such without question or controversy. We endeavor to pass.
Come on Trish..that on it's face value sounds more like rhetoric that realism.
Just because one reaches a point to be considered "passing" still shouldn't transcend the facts that they are Transexual and should be proud of it. The very premise of being happy starts with embracing what and who you are.

[trish]

Nice try but the issue is that you and your friends in this thread are making the claim that in general most transsexuals...
...are thieves and will steal in a New York minute.... You can criticize the political courage of the majority of transsexuals for remaining invisible, or for simply deciding to pass instead of proudly lifting their skirts and declaring to the world that they're transsexuals, but

1) that doesn't advance your claim that they're thieves one iota;

2) it puts you in the position of conceding my point that you have little or no knowledge of transsexuals outside the sex industry.

[btmmale4toptg]

Come on Trish..that on it's face value sounds more like rhetoric that realism.
Just because one reaches a point to be considered "passing" still shouldn't transcend the facts that they are Transexual and should be proud of it. The very premise of being happy starts with embracing what and who you are.


Maybe because of my point that, today, too many trans women (more the norm than the exception) end up living lifestyles, for many reasons that I do understand, that don't shine a positive light on the TG community as a whole. That in turn makes the trans women Trish speaks of not want to be associated with that part of the trans world (Escorts, porn stars, bar girls).

Trish, I do know there are many trans women living normal everyday lives (I do know many, contrary to what you may assume about me). Even a decade ago, it was much easier to find an actual "date" than it is today. So *maybe* your thinking and viewpoint is a tad bit outdated.

Currently, the general perception of "transsexuals" today has highly negative tones because exactly what you say. There are many trans women who do lead normal lives, but the positive in that is downed out by the negatives of that general perception and many of your trans sisters who do opt to do porn, escort, and live the party lifestyle.

So where are the voices of the "normal" trans woman to offset the negative perceptions and stereotypes?

[trish]

Maybe because of my point that, today, too many trans women (more the norm than the exception) end up living lifestyles, for many reasons that I do understand, that don't shine a positive light on the TG community as a whole. That in turn makes the trans women Trish speaks of not want to be associated with that part of the trans world (Escorts, porn stars, bar girls).Bullshit. Now besides calling them thieves you think you know what motivates their desire to pass; i.e. you're now claiming transsexual women desire to pass unclocked so as not to be confused with models, escorts and porn stars. Yeah, right. You should write that up in the New England Journal of Medicine. The majority of transsexual women are invisible because they want to pass as women in normal society.


I do know there are many trans women living normal everyday lives (...). Even a decade ago, it was much easier to find ...So maybe your thinking and viewpoint are just a tad bit dated.


Currently, the general perception of "transsexuals" today has highly negative tones because exactly what you say. There are many trans women who do lead normal lives, but the positive in that is downed out by the negatives of that general perception and many of your trans sisters who do opt to do porn, escort, and live the party lifestyle. A dim light begins to dawn in a tiny brain. Now apply that to your own perception. (BTW, I concede to the general perception of escorts etc., but not to its veracity).


So where are the voices of the "normal" trans woman to offset the negative perceptions and stereotypes?Doesn't matter. Thanks to modern medical advances we're passing and my point is made. Your sample is skewed. Your conclusions are biased. You've no warrant to general claims concerning the virtues or vices of transsexual women in general.

[trish]

Yeah , Trish!
William S Burroughs readings and Laurie Andersons' music...what a great collaboration that was!

"Sun's going down ,like a big bald head
Behind the boulevard
It's Sharkey's Night.
Yes
It's Sharkey's Night tonight!"

Sharkey's Night - Laurie Anderson - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2yA2Wrtvg)

Excellent piece. And can you believe two uncivilized louts gave Burroughs and Anderson thumbs down! Amazing.

[btmmale4toptg]

Your sample is skewed. Your conclusions are biased. You've no warrant to general claims concerning the virtues or vices of transsexual women in general.


Your thinking isn't a bit skewed too? And your conclusions aren't biased as well?

Also, you discount anything I have to say simply because I myself am not trans, hence you discount anything anyone else says about the trans community since they aren't trans either, regardless of our own personal experiences within the trans community. That is just closed minded and insulting.

You also insult the many men like me who have spent a lifetime with trans women as our partners.

I guess the saying holds true, "Opinions are like assholes, EVERYONE has one!"

Just because you're trans doesn't make you the almighty authority on trans issues and it is simply your "opinion".

[trish]

you discount anything I have to say simply because I myself am not transOkay. Show me the link where I argue from the premise that you're not a trans. I dare you to find it. I argued from premise that most transsexual women are hidden from your view and you therefore have to warrant to draw conclusions about all or most transsexuals. When you couldn't find a way around that argument to cried about how come transsexual women are vocal, why don't we stand up for our "cause." Well it doesn't matter because by making that complaint you just conceded my point.


You also insult the many men like me who have spent a lifetime with trans women as our partners.Please go back and see who slung the first insult. No, better yet, let's just look at your main premise which is essentially most transsexual women are bad-apples, not much unlike that thief that you open this thread with. They're untrustworthy verging on the criminal. According to you it's just the norm for all transsexual women. That's not an insult?! An insult to all of us?! And you have the gall to whine like a little bitch that I retaliated in kind?! Grow a fuckin' pair.

[runningdownthatdream]

Okay. Show me the link where I argue from the premise that you're not a trans. I dare you to find it. I argued from premise that most transsexual women are hidden from your view and you therefore have to warrant to draw conclusions about all or most transsexuals. When you couldn't find a way around that argument to cried about how come transsexual women are vocal, why don't we stand up for our "cause." Well it doesn't matter because by making that complaint you just conceded my point.

Please go back and see who slung the first insult. No, better yet, let's just look at your main premise which is essentially most transsexual women are bad-apples, not much unlike that thief that you open this thread with. They're untrustworthy verging on the criminal. According to you it's just the norm for all transsexual women. That's not an insult?! An insult to all of us?! And you have the gall to whine like a little bitch that I retaliated in kind?! Grow a fuckin' pair.

You beat me to it - his moniker Bottom Male seems apt.

At the root of his whining seems to be his belief that he knows transsexual women better than they know themselves and this because he's dated them exclusively. It's a similar situation with those white women who exclusively date black men or white men who exclusively date oriental women, etc. Familiarity does breed contempt especially when that familiarity is with person or persons unlike our own personal concept of 'the norm'. In his view he's somehow special for 'accepting' transsexuals and more so because he dates them exclusively!

[trish]

You beat me to it - his moniker Bottom Male seems apt.

At the root of his whining seems to be his belief that he knows transsexual women better than they know themselves and this because he's dated them exclusively. It's a similar situation with those white women who exclusively date black men or white men who exclusively date oriental women, etc. Familiarity does breed contempt especially when that familiarity is with person or persons unlike our own personal concept of 'the norm'. In his view he's somehow special for 'accepting' transsexuals and more so because he dates them exclusively!
Thanks for the support.

[trish]

Let me take the opportunity to correct my typos in the first half of above post.

Okay. Show me the link where I argue from the premise that you're not a trans. I dare you to find it. I argued from [the] premise that most transsexual women are hidden from your view and you therefore have [no] warrant to draw conclusions about all or most transsexuals. When you couldn't find a way around that argument to cried about how come transsexual women [aren't] vocal [and] why don't we stand up for our "cause." Well it doesn't matter because by making that complaint you just conceded my point.

[Edits in square brackets]

[Stavros]

Currently, the general perception of "transsexuals" today has highly negative tones because exactly what you say. There are many trans women who do lead normal lives, but the positive in that is downed out by the negatives of that general perception and many of your trans sisters who do opt to do porn, escort, and live the party lifestyle.

So where are the voices of the "normal" trans woman to offset the negative perceptions and stereotypes?

I find it hard to believe that decades after Stonewall this rubbish masquerading as fact is even being discussed -there have always been transexual prostitutes -you can read about them in the Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, composed between 1558 and 1563-; the composer Schubert was alleged to have a fascination with transexuals in Vienna in the early 19th century; Salvador Dali jacked off to shemales most of his life, and so on and so on. And if some transexuals are forced to live on the margins of society -as many of those involved at Stonewall were- then you can add dope and booze into the mix. Lots of young people snort a line, pop pills and turn tricks -they usually move on to other things some time later.

Transexuals since Stonewall have become established characters in soap operas (eg, Corononation St); they have appeared in films and tv ads, hold positions of academic respectability in universities, have been elected to political office, have written over 50 books and received awards and recognition from across the world (eg Jan Morris) but all you can think of is some scantily clad hooker with a drug habit lowering the tone of the neighborhood. And since most transexuals wouldn't really look good in white boots and mini-skirt, its probably just as well they carry on leading their lives on a day to day basis without being stereotyped because of the assumed visibility of a minority. But then you wouldn't say all those Black American men and Latinos in prison are giving their fellow Americans an image problem, now, would you?

[kj312]

It looks like someone is posting with that picture in las vegas sexy ts for now. I'm not sure what to do since that guys post is no longer up. Hope someone else can help if this guys story is true.

[Corran]

I've read all the arguments in this thread and most have been well thought out and made for an entertaining read. I would like to offer this: Say I met a beautiful young woman (gg) and she was down on her luck. I took her in to my home because she needed help and, not going to lie, maybe hoping something extra comes out of it. Sex, a relationship...
She cleans out my bank account, steals from neighbors etc. etc. before I finally get the good sense to send her packing. Because of my experience with her do I just assume all beautiful young women are like this and state that opinion on an internet forum that specifically caters to them?
Then expect everyone to just agree with me and congratulate me on exposing the bitter truth about women and not give me any negative feedback?

Not if I'm living in that place called Reality.

Bottom line, not all women are the same, not all men are the same and not all transgender women are the same. After exclusively dating them for 20 years I think you would have noticed that by now.

[tsmirandameadows]

Maybe because of my point that, today, too many trans women (more the norm than the exception) end up living lifestyles, for many reasons that I do understand, that don't shine a positive light on the TG community as a whole. That in turn makes the trans women Trish speaks of not want to be associated with that part of the trans world (Escorts, porn stars, bar girls).

Trish, I do know there are many trans women living normal everyday lives (I do know many, contrary to what you may assume about me). Even a decade ago, it was much easier to find an actual "date" than it is today. So *maybe* your thinking and viewpoint is a tad bit outdated.

Currently, the general perception of "transsexuals" today has highly negative tones because exactly what you say. There are many trans women who do lead normal lives, but the positive in that is downed out by the negatives of that general perception and many of your trans sisters who do opt to do porn, escort, and live the party lifestyle.

So where are the voices of the "normal" trans woman to offset the negative perceptions and stereotypes?

All I can say was I spent 3 and a half years being unemployed out of college, despite being intelligent, well-spoken, and having both a record of academic excellence and employable skills. I could not get a job to save my life. One by one, I watched my highly talented classmates, with whom I stood shoulder to shoulder, get hired and started in remunerative careers. Within a few months, even the C+ average classmates who had cared far more about getting crunked than learning got picked up for entry level professional jobs with salaries in the $50-60k range. Soon it felt like I was the only one left who couldn't get a god damn job. What was my problem? I was trans, early in transition, and did not have any money to accelerate my transition to the point that I would be even remotely passable.

It quickly became apparent that I needed to get a job, any job, even being willing to settle for the grocery bagger job I had had in high school, but even that was evidently beyond my reach. I was turned down at Burger King, In-n-Out, Walmart, Ikea, Target, Macy's, etc. Any place that was hiring I applied at, because 6 months of a targeted job search for a professional position relevant to my skill set had led no where and I was desperate for work. When bottom of the barrel jobs weren't panning out, I figured I could recalibrate again, and taught myself linux system administration, some scripting languages, and various enterprise network services, all in the hopes of getting some sort of paid sysadmin internship. I interviewed at several firms, always doing well in the technical interviews, but never getting a callback. At this point I began to despair.

Finally, after three and a half years of a job search filled with constant rejection and discrimination, I landed, by pure luck, a job as a residential counselor at a group home in the California foster care system, having lived in a similar group home myself as a teenager. The work was paid minimum wage, offered no benefits, holidays were work days, and time off requests could not be accommodated the 18 months I worked there. The work environment was extremely stressful, facing highly emotionally charged situations day-in, day-out. One day you're breaking up a fight between residents, another you're performing CPR on a resident whom you found in her room having attempted to hang herself, another you're watching kids who have been dealt horribly shitty hands completely self-destruct because their lives are so miserable, and meanwhile there's so little you can do to help them.

I could not hang with those working conditions, working conditions which led to an average attrition rate of three months for residential counselors. I did my best because the work was important to me, but in the end, after a year and a half, it was too hard and my mental health utterly collapsed on the job, requiring a leave of absence. The minimum wage I earned at that job, however, was used to finance a better a hormone regimen, and some facial hair removal, so that by the time I burnt out, I was actually quite passable. Still my ID documents did not match my new appearance, so even despite no longer being visibly gender variant, I found myself just as unhireable as I had ever been, as I looked for work after leaving the group home job. This was crushing. The take away was that as long as people know I am transgendered then they do not want me, no matter what my qualifications, no matter how well I blend into my new gender role. I could fix my ID with a legal name and gender change, but then I'd just be living in fear that any potential employer would eventually realize I was trans and change their mind about continuing to employ me.

So I got into porn and sex work, because this is the only industry which will hire transsexual women without hesitation or discrimination. I also happen to like it. If my new profession gives society the wrong idea about transwomen, then society needs to fuck off because it never gave me an honest chance. That some transwomen have been able to find a way to survive in mainstream society is great, but that's because they beat overwhelming odds, not because the deck isn't as stacked against us as is possible. Frankly, I've only known two under 30 transwomen who haven't had to resort to sex work as a result of exactly the kind of experience I just described.

As to those of us who become "party girls", what do you really expect? Society has made it perfectly clear how unwanted we are. There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. What exactly do we have to look forward to, aside from aging out of sex work and no longer being able to make a living at it? Sure, I can carefully invest my earnings so as to live off passive income by the time I retire from sex work, but to what end? What use is a living when you will always be an outsider and unwanted? What else is there but to have a few fleeting moments of fun and enjoyment before even that too is gone?

Sorry, but I have a big problem with someone who has never been through what I have just described trying to say that any transsexual who wants to make it in the mainstream can. I was so wounded by society's rejection of me that, at this point, even if there is something out there that I could potentially achieve -- like a career, a home, a family -- I simply have to engage in self-protection by not even trying for it, because the continued rejection such trying would entail is no longer within my capacity to endure.

[robertlouis]

All I can say was I spent 3 and a half years being unemployed out of college, despite being intelligent, well-spoken, and having both a record of academic excellence and employable skills. I could not get a job to save my life. One by one, I watched my highly talented classmates, with whom I stood shoulder to shoulder, get hired and started in remunerative careers. Within a few months, even the C+ average classmates who had cared far more about getting crunked than learning got picked up for entry level professional jobs with salaries in the $50-60k range. Soon it felt like I was the only one left who couldn't get a god damn job. What was my problem? I was trans, early in transition, and did not have any money to accelerate my transition to the point that I would be even remotely passable.

It quickly became apparent that I needed to get a job, any job, even being willing to settle for the grocery bagger job I had had in high school, but even that was evidently beyond my reach. I was turned down at Burger King, In-n-Out, Walmart, Ikea, Target, Macy's, etc. Any place that was hiring I applied at, because 6 months of a targeted job search for a professional position relevant to my skill set had led no where and I was desperate for work. When bottom of the barrel jobs weren't panning out, I figured I could recalibrate again, and taught myself linux system administration, some scripting languages, and various enterprise network services, all in the hopes of getting some sort of paid sysadmin internship. I interviewed at several firms, always doing well in the technical interviews, but never getting a callback. At this point I began to despair.

Finally, after three and a half years of a job search filled with constant rejection and discrimination, I landed, by pure luck, a job as a residential counselor at a group home in the California foster care system, having lived in a similar group home myself as a teenager. The work was paid minimum wage, offered no benefits, holidays were work days, and time off requests could not be accommodated the 18 months I worked there. The work environment was extremely stressful, facing highly emotionally charged situations day-in, day-out. One day you're breaking up a fight between residents, another you're performing CPR on a resident whom you found in her room having attempted to hang herself, another you're watching kids who have been dealt horribly shitty hands completely self-destruct because their lives are so miserable, and meanwhile there's so little you can do to help them.

I could not hang with those working conditions, working conditions which led to an average attrition rate of three months for residential counselors. I did my best because the work was important to me, but in the end, after a year and a half, it was too hard and my mental health utterly collapsed on the job, requiring a leave of absence. The minimum wage I earned at that job, however, was used to finance a better a hormone regimen, and some facial hair removal, so that by the time I burnt out, I was actually quite passable. Still my ID documents did not match my new appearance, so even despite no longer being visibly gender variant, I found myself just as unhireable as I had ever been, as I looked for work after leaving the group home job. This was crushing. The take away was that as long as people know I am transgendered then they do not want me, no matter what my qualifications, no matter how well I blend into my new gender role. I could fix my ID with a legal name and gender change, but then I'd just be living in fear that any potential employer would eventually realize I was trans and change their mind about continuing to employ me.

So I got into porn and sex work, because this is the only industry which will hire transsexual women without hesitation or discrimination. I also happen to like it. If my new profession gives society the wrong idea about transwomen, then society needs to fuck off because it never gave me an honest chance. That some transwomen have been able to find a way to survive in mainstream society is great, but that's because they beat overwhelming odds, not because the deck isn't as stacked against us as is possible. Frankly, I've only known two under 30 transwomen who haven't had to resort to sex work as a result of exactly the kind of experience I just described.

As to those of us who become "party girls", what do you really expect? Society has made it perfectly clear how unwanted we are. There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. What exactly do we have to look forward to, aside from aging out of sex work and no longer being able to make a living at it? Sure, I can carefully invest my earnings so as to live off passive income by the time I retire from sex work, but to what end? What use is a living when you will always be an outsider and unwanted? What else is there but to have a few fleeting moments of fun and enjoyment before even that too is gone?

Sorry, but I have a big problem with someone who has never been through what I have just described trying to say that any transsexual who wants to make it in the mainstream can. I was so wounded by society's rejection of me that, at this point, even if there is something out there that I could potentially achieve -- like a career, a home, a family -- I simply have to engage in self-protection by not even trying for it, because the continued rejection such trying would entail is no longer within my capacity to endure.

:iagree: Fantastic post Miranda, and it shines important light on the reality out there for so many trans people both male and female. It takes courage, determination and above all an awful lot of luck not to be attracted to the porn world and it's entirely understandable why so many girls end up there.

But the real scandal in all of this is that employers have free rein to discriminate against trans candidates. We can congratulate ourselves for the superficial gains in recognition that happen every now and then, but until this millstone is removed, people will still be allowed to vent their nastiest prejudices unchecked and no real progress can be achieved.

It's a very worthwhile and necessary campaign subject.

[tsmirandameadows]

:iagree: Fantastic post Miranda, and it shines important light on the reality out there for so many trans people both male and female. It takes courage, determination and above all an awful lot of luck not to be attracted to the porn world and it's entirely understandable why so many girls end up there.

But the real scandal in all of this is that employers have free rein to discriminate against trans candidates. We can congratulate ourselves for the superficial gains in recognition that happen every now and then, but until this millstone is removed, people will still be allowed to vent their nastiest prejudices unchecked and no real progress can be achieved.

It's a very worthwhile and necessary campaign subject.

The real kicker is that this kind of discrimination has been illegal in the state of California for two years, and in the municipality of San Francisco for about 20 years. The culture however hasn't caught up with the law, so hiring managers are just as bigoted as ever, they just don't specifically tell you in writing that transsexuals need not apply, although the more brazen may do so verbally because they rightly figure that you won't be able to prove anything.

As an aside, I'll never forget an interview at Macy's, which was conducted between three of us candidates and the HR manager. The interview was largely scenario based, and while my answers were not all perfect, I clearly was just as hireable as the other two candidates, if not more so, on the basis of my responses. As a part of the the interview there was this big long spiel about the importance of integrity at Macy's, and there were a few "integrity" scenarios that we had to respond to. At the conclusion of the interview, she took each candidate out into the hall to confer with them privately before they left, but the closeness of the hall meant that the conversations were audible. The other two candidates were offered jobs on the spot while she told me that she wanted to finish the remaining interviews for the day before making a decision. Either way, she said, she would call me in the evening to let me know if she had a position for me or not. The evening came and went and I received no call. I called back the next morning to let her know that I hadn't heard back but that I was still interested in working for her. She then claimed that she never said that she would call me back, that she would only call back those to whom she wanted to offer a job. She then commented that she did not understand why I would have expected a callback "given how [I] presented myself in the interview."

[robertlouis]

I worked in HR all of my professional life and would have had that manager's ass on the sidewalk. OK, so I worked in telecoms and in environments where talent genuinely determined the hiring choice, but to learn that huge corporations have such openly discriminatory policies disgusts me. I remember being told in the 90s - in the UK - not to hire a guy as my head of compensation because he was clearly and unashamedly gay. I refused, hired him, and he was the best hire I ever made, and I took him with me to three other companies over the years.

Just what do companies who have such policies really think they're achieving?

[tsmirandameadows]

I worked in HR all of my professional life and would have had that manager's ass on the sidewalk. OK, so I worked in telecoms and in environments where talent genuinely determined the hiring choice, but to learn that huge corporations have such openly discriminatory policies disgusts me. I remember being told in the 90s - in the UK - not to hire a guy as my head of compensation because he was clearly and unashamedly gay. I refused, hired him, and he was the best hire I ever made, and I took him with me to three other companies over the years.

Just what do companies who have such policies really think they're achieving?

Well she was actually violating company policy in that regard. Hence, the irony of her spiel on "integrity". The point is that law and policy does nothing if the culture is such that people think it's morally acceptable to discriminate in this regard. This woman would have been just as in violation of law and policy if she had told a black girl that negros need not apply, yet she would never think to do so because such behavior is rightly considered toxic. To do the exact same to a transsexual is a-okay in most people's minds however.

[Prospero]

Don't blame Deborah. She did what her DNA told her to do. Most of them are like that.


So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?


Well said Trish.... and as for african's remark... well mate, what would your reaction be if someone said that is the way all black people behave, because "it is in their DNA?"

And of course there are "guys here" ho will never see that transexuals can do no wrong quoth Mr TSDVDman... what a dumb ass remark. of course there are bad transsexuals just as there are bad mexicans, albanians, welsh, brits, homosexuals, blacks, Chinese, Eskimos etc etc.... but you do not tar all of any group based on the bad behaviour of one or two. Unless that groups in itself espouses bad behaviour (ie the ku klux klan, the Nazi party, al Queda etc). For someone who is a regular poster on this site, you seem to have a pretty low opinion of the girls.

[kj312]

I disagree with this statement "There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. " I have taken transgender women seriously and they have done me wrong. There is guys out there you just have to be patient.

[SXFX]

Miranda
I know it means shit from me.....but you sound like a very smart person who has her shit together. It's a shame those employers didn't see it. As a manager of a good sized office finding good help...is not easy...and i don't care if you are trans or blue if you can do your job i'll hire you....unless you are left handed...those people just freak me out ;-)
I KID I KID I KID =)