difference between a transgender and a transsexual

[finultimo]

I need to explain in the simplest way possible to an older adult, the difference between a transgender and a transsexual, could you help me? :(

[GroobyKrissy]

I need to explain in the simplest way possible to an older adult, the difference between a transgender and a transsexual, could you help me? :(

TG = The Umbrella
TS = The person standing under it.

[Amber Littlefeather]

:iagree:

[finultimo]

means that a TS is a TG but a TG is not necessarily a TS? ok but that does not help me too thank you very much

[LilyRox]

A transgender person is a broad category of the 3rd sex. This can be a drag queen, crossdresser, transsexual, MtF(male to female), FtM(female to male), transvestite, etc.

A transsexual is a person (let's say male to female) that had any surgeries to become the opposite sex including, but not limited to: breast implants, sex reassignment, laser hair removal, hormone therapy, etc.

Defined purely by me

[GroobyKrissy]

means that a TS is a TG but a TG is not necessarily a TS? ok but that does not help me too thank you very much

Hmmm... you asked for simple and I thought that was the simplest explanation that you will actually read without me getting long and wordy. Let me try again.

Transgendered is a TERM.
Transsexual is a PERSON.

I think you can draw the conclusions from that...?

[danthepoetman]

I don't mean to get over the ladies heads, here. They're all right anyways and Krissy is presenting things in her usually bright, fun and original way. I don't want either to talk as if I knew; the ladies will correct me if I'm wrong. I would think that "transgender", Finultimo, refers to every one who's crossing over from one gender to another: "trans", across, and "gender" which speaks by itself. A transsexual is someone who has a condition which I believe is biological, by which they are born with a sexual genotype (the famous xx or xy chromosome), and therefore in a body, which doesn't match the deep, profound, sexual identity. There's a spot in the brain, the sexualy dimorphic brain, which is for instance, giving a true female identity to someone, but her body has a xy sexual genotype, which makes that body phenotypically (its exterior, its appearance) male.
Therefore, indeed, a transsexual is a transgender, but a transgender is not necessarily a transsexual...
Or if you will, transgender is a general word, including a lot of cases, and transsexual is a specific condition...

[Jericho]

About thirty five notes on a Saturday night! :shrug

Awww c'mon, someone had to! :hide-1:

[MrsKellyPierce]

Transgender is the umbrella term for transsexual, transvestite, crossdresser, gender queer, gender fluid, and drag queen...

Transsexual is someone who has the brain/thoughts of the opposite sex of what they were born. Typically resulting in hormones and surgeries to change their outside features to match what's going on upstairs.

[GroobySteven]

Typically resulting in hormones and surgeries

Typically resulting in hormones and/or surgeries

[GroobyKrissy]

Typically resulting in hormones and/or surgeries

I knew I liked you for some reason.

[finultimo]

thank you very much. have all been very patient, I thank you indeed

[GroobyKrissy]

I don't mean to get over the ladies heads, here. They're all right anyways and Krissy is presenting things in her usually bright, fun and original way. I don't want either to talk as if I knew; the ladies will correct me if I'm wrong. I would think that "transgender", Finultimo, refers to every one who's crossing over from one gender to another: "trans", across, and "gender" which speaks by itself. A transsexual is someone who has a condition which I believe is biological, by which they are born with a sexual genotype (the famous xx or xy chromosome), and therefore in a body, which doesn't match the deep, profound, sexual identity. There's a spot in the brain, the sexualy dimorphic brain, which is for instance, giving a true female identity to someone, but her body has a xy sexual genotype, which makes that body phenotypically (its exterior, its appearance) male.
Therefore, indeed, a transsexual is a transgender, but a transgender is not necessarily a transsexual...
Or if you will, transgender is a general word, including a lot of cases, and transsexual is a specific condition...

Personally, I think anyone who references Italian is always right. So, you get a pass from me.

Oh wait...

[LilyRox]

Typically resulting in hormones and/or surgeries

Yes. There are many girl's that have only had hormone therapy to advance towards the opposite sex. They would be known as transsexuals, but could also be called transgender as a very broad term.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Many girls can't do hormones for health reasons..

So keep in mind just cause a girl isn't on hormones doesn't make her less of a female..

Some just do the surgery route..like Jesse Flores

[LilyRox]

Many girls can't do hormones for health reasons..

So keep in mind just cause a girl isn't on hormones doesn't make her less of a female..

Some just do the surgery route..like Jesse Flores

Yeah, I think I'm going to start hormones soon. I thought about not taking hormones at all, but I don't know. I talked to Bob from Bob's Tgirl's and he said it just never works out right when you get breast surgery without some type of foundation. I would have like beach balls lol.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Yeah, I think I'm going to start hormones soon. I thought about not taking hormones at all, but I don't know. I talked to Bob from Bob's Tgirl's and he said it just never works out right when you get breast surgery without some type of foundation. I would have like beach balls lol.
That is typically true, but Jesse never took hormones and she has soft boobs

Sometimes even when you take hormones you don't get much breast growth

A lot of girls just go over the muscle in that case ie Bailey Jay and others

[robertlouis]

Yeah, I think I'm going to start hormones soon. I thought about not taking hormones at all, but I don't know. I talked to Bob from Bob's Tgirl's and he said it just never works out right when you get breast surgery without some type of foundation. I would have like beach balls lol.


Coloured ones? :party:

That would be soooooo cool......

[broncofan]

My understanding is that one is transsexual when there is a dissonance between biological sex and gender identification. The male genotype xy does not always result in a phenotype that is entirely male. Doctors often look at hormone levels, gonads, and secondary sex characteristics which vary a great deal among those with the male genotype. When genotype and phenotype do not match up one is intersex (there are actually a number of ways one can be intersex). But of course, not all transsexuals are intersex. Some but not all who are intersex are transsexuals.

Gender identification would refer to the set of psychological and mental characteristics that we associate with either male or female identity. The reason I bring up the intersex is that they demonstrate that for some biological sex is more fluid than we usually think. However, for society, male and female are two poles on opposite sides of a spectrum, each with their own set of correlated traits.

[LilyRox]

That is typically true, but Jesse never took hormones and she has soft boobs

Sometimes even when you take hormones you don't get much breast growth

A lot of girls just go over the muscle in that case ie Bailey Jay and others

Hmm yeah. I thought about both ways I really don't know. I don't think I have to have hormones.

[youngblood61]

That is typically true, but Jesse never took hormones and she has soft boobs

Sometimes even when you take hormones you don't get much breast growth

A lot of girls just go over the muscle in that case ie Bailey Jay and othersJesse does have nice boobs.

[robertlouis]

That is typically true, but Jesse never took hormones and she has soft boobs

Sometimes even when you take hormones you don't get much breast growth

A lot of girls just go over the muscle in that case ie Bailey Jay and others


The other issue to consider with hormones is that the changes aren't just physical, but aslo psychological and physiological, and these can be both more profound and significant. Most of my friends who have had hormone treatment experience mood swings and their psychology moves much more towards the feminine. It also softens the skin and features as well as making the body shape more feminine.

Depends of course on the strength and frequency of treatment and also just how far you want to go, but for the girls whose ultimate aim is to feel that their body completely matches their female brain, hormones seem to be more or less essential.

The above is just the experience of the girls I know who have already or who are in the process of transition; it may not apply generally but it does to my friends.

[maddygirl]

The problem with this is as she ages, her body will continue to get more masculine, regardless of the surgery she's had...

[robertlouis]

The problem with this is as she ages, her body will continue to get more masculine, regardless of the surgery she's had...



I take it you're talking about girls who haven't taken hormones, Maddy?

[LilyRox]

The problem with this is as she ages, her body will continue to get more masculine, regardless of the surgery she's had...

No, that's just called getting old. Even natural females sometimes age badly due to low estrogen.

I'm 21 right now, the human body peaks growth around age 24. I am not going to change much. If anything my testosterone levels will go down later on.

[maddygirl]

I take it you're talking about girls who haven't taken hormones, Maddy?
Yep! That's why I think taking hormones is important and necessary..

[maddygirl]

No, that's just called getting old. Even natural females sometimes age badly due to low estrogen.

I'm 21 right now, the human body peaks growth around age 24. I am not going to change much. If anything my testosterone levels will go down later on.
I don't agree...I think this is especially obvious in older trans women who have transitioned later in life... they usually have a much more difficult time just in daily life with passing, and other activities. I'm not talking about aging badly, I'm talking about becoming more masculine.

[robertlouis]

Yep! That's why I think taking hormones is important and necessary..

As I said a few posts back, almost every girl I know who's transitioned has done so with the aid of medically planned and extensive programmes of hormones, so I reckon you're absolutely correct.

Think again, Lily. It might be in your own long-term interest to do so.

Seriously.

[danthepoetman]

Men stop growing up at around 22. But after, we start thickening, and I'm not talking about becoming fat. The shoulders keep broadening and the bones getting bigger... The thorax is getting bigger not only in span but also in depth. They're right, Lily!

[LilyRox]

I disagree. I believe the majority of older transgender women who haven't done hormone therapy started dressing at a much older age. There's a big difference to start dressing at age 40 when you were man your entire life than to start at 18 and to continue dressing till 40.

[maddygirl]

I disagree. I believe the majority of older transgender women who haven't done hormone therapy started dressing at a much older age. There's a big difference to start dressing at age 40 when you were man your entire life than to start at 18 and to continue dressing till 40.
But, Lily, dressing isn't going to the change the fact that testosterone changes the body, especially after extended exposure. Dressing older or younger isn't going to change the body chemistry. If you're not on hormones I recommend you do so, or I think you will regret it.

[robertlouis]

Men stop growing up at around 22.



Most ladies of my acquaintance could put up a very strong argument that most men never grow up, using myself as an appalling but very apposite example.

[danthepoetman]

Most ladies of my acquaintance could put up a very strong argument that most men never grow up, using myself as an appalling but very apposite example.
LOL!
I'm conceding that one, Robert Louis!
I'm a bit more like this one:
http://forevertwentysomethings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tumblr_mc7tlvt35R1qgxdb2o1_500.gif

[robertlouis]

I disagree. I believe the majority of older transgender women who haven't done hormone therapy started dressing at a much older age. There's a big difference to start dressing at age 40 when you were man your entire life than to start at 18 and to continue dressing till 40.



My friend Claire started transitioning when she was 26 and had to undergo intensive hormone therapy for a few years to attain the level of femininity that she wanted. Now she looks, sounds and acts fabulous. She's an elegant, very feminine and happily married lady and I love her to bits.

So you're right about not leaving it too late. But I do think you're kidding yourself, Lily, if you think you can successfully transition on a lifetime basis without resorting to hormones under medical supervision at some point, and the empirical evidence seems to indicate that the earlier you start, the more successful the results are likely to be.

[amberskyi]

No, that's just called getting old. Even natural females sometimes age badly due to low estrogen.

I'm 21 right now, the human body peaks growth around age 24. I am not going to change much. If anything my testosterone levels will go down later on.

You would think so but males reach their prime at 30

[LilyRox]

I think a lot of people don't understand the risks of HRT, it isn't just you take it and everything is completely changed. It's a long on going process that changes your body as a whole. In my opinion if you can pass without HRT there's really no point in taking unless you want to be self destructive. It pretty much changes your entire sex drive and the way you function. I don't see any reason why I would have to do it now if I feel ok and I'm not even on herbs.

[robertlouis]

I think a lot of people don't understand the risks of HRT, it isn't just you take it and everything is completely changed. It's a long on going process that changes your body as a whole. In my opinion if you can pass without HRT there's really no point in taking unless you want to be self destructive. It pretty much changes your entire sex drive and the way you function. I don't see any reason why I would have to do it now if I feel ok and I'm not even on herbs.


That's fair Lily, and it's absolutely your call - it's your destination, after all.

But no-one should ever take hormones unless prescribed by a physician and then only after the extensive and ongoing involvement of an endocrinologist.

[danthepoetman]

You would think so but males reach their prime at 30
You're right, Amber, because with us guys, it's not just a growth in height, it's also a growth in mass, nothwitstanding all the masculine features that comes with it (before long, hair falls from your head -also because of testosterone, for me at 19- and starts coming out of your nose and ears, and also growing on your ears, on your back, shoulders, etc, etc)... You become rapidly some kind of grunting animal... lol

[robertlouis]

You're right, Amber, because with us guys, it's not just a growth in height, it's also a growth in mass, nothwitstanding all the masculine features that comes with it (before long, hair falls from your head -also because of testosterone, for me at 19- and starts coming out of your nose and ears, and also growing on your ears, on your back, shoulders, etc, etc)... lol


I guess I'm lucky then. Not very hairy elsewhere but still have a very healthy head of thick dark brown hair. Flaunt it while you've still got it, say I. :dancing:

[LilyRox]

But no-one should ever take hormones unless prescribed by a physician and then only after the extensive and ongoing involvement of an endocrinologist.

Yes, of course. It still messes up your body in certain ways none the less. It's basically like putting petrol in a semi.

[robertlouis]

Yes, of course. It still messes up your body in certain ways none the less. It's basically like putting petrol in a semi.



Over here a semi is a house!

That's not recommended either.....

[Prospero]

TG = The Umbrella
TS = The person standing under it.

Nicely put Krissy... succinct and to the point

[GroobyKrissy]

Nicely put Krissy... succinct and to the point

Oooh... I like pointy things :)

[natina]

the difference is $10.00 USA

[Jamie French]

About the HRT thing. I turned 34 a few days ago, started HRT about a week after I turned 32. Even this "late" in life it's been the best medical decision I ever made. If I had the finances and support group at 18 that I have now I would have started that much sooner, no question.

It's a good thing that there are so many stories on the internet about the ravages that hormones can wreak on your body. Helps keep kids from self medicating. But, unless you are actually going through HRT under the care of an endocrinologist you shouldn't feel like you can speak freely about what hormones will or won't do for/or to you. Every individual is different and only your doctor can help you choose a hormone regimen that's right for you.

Some of the claims about the detrimental effects of hormones are flat out incorrect. I live it, I don't want to hear it dictated to me or folks in my position by someone who doesn't.

HRT may very well fuck up your sex life, but two years in and I function so well that I actually make a decent living out of it, (as I have for years.) Mood swings have been mild at best and overall have made me much less prone to fits of anger and impulsive reactions. The physical effects of the medication have refined all the little quirks I didn't like about my body and have more or less 'primed' my body for surgeries that will yield much more fulfilling results.

All those things may not have been the case if certain circumstances were different but I took a chance in the interest of pursuing happiness, made some informed decisions and worked with professionals in a safe and measured manner. Things are good for me, so please, don't share horror stories unless they are your own. Come at the board with useful information, not unearned third hand spook stories.

[MacShreach]

Yes, of course. It still messes up your body in certain ways none the less. It's basically like putting petrol in a semi.

Not really, Lily. A proper hormones regime will use androgen-blcokers to suppress the effects of testosternone, and then replace the hormones with estrogen. So on a well-regulated programme, your body's hormone levels will be similar to a cis-woman's. So it's more like taking the diesel mill out and then putting in a petrol engine and then filling up with petrol (gas).

There are potentially two problems. One is that the anti-androgens are tough to metabolise and may, eventually, after protracted or excessive use, cause liver damage. But this is years in.

The other is that some girls, who are self-medicating, basically OD on estrogen. What they don't realise is that in excessive doses, estrogen actually has a masculinising effect, so there is a danger of developing a positive feedback loop: 'Oh this doesn't seem to be working, I'll take more.' Unfortunately, high levels of estrogen also can cause liver damage. So in many cases, it's a 'less is more' situation.

Hormone regimes are predicated on the underlying idea that the girl will eventually get full SRS. So using andro-blockers is fine, since when she has her testes removed as part of the procedure, they can be stopped, and there's no evidence they're harmful in the short to medium term (and the evidence for damage in the long term is sketchy.)

It's actually quite simple and safe for a girl to use hormones, proceed with SRS or at least an orchi, and use estrogen HRT therapy as maintenance thereafter. HRT is prescribed to millions of cis-women and is highly effective. (Without HRT, the woman will be at risk of osteoporosis, as happened to April Ashley.)

The problem arises when the girl wants to feminise but also to keep her testes and/or a 'functional' penis. As soon as andro-blockers are removed, she'll begin to masculinise, although, if she took hormones from the critical teens up to mid-twenties, this might be a long time showing. Long-term, maintenance doses of andro-blockers and estro are a shot in the dark. So this is a far more difficult call, and this is leaving aside any side-effect on erectile ability which may affect the girl's earning potential, shall we say.

The temptation, for girls like this, is to go for surgeries, implants or even worse, injected silicon, instead of hormones. This will not work in the long term, as the surgeries etc will have to continue, (and indeed, some girls become addicted to it.) Male pattern baldness, ageing male body forms etc etc, are certain to be an issue.

A cute young transgirl will only stay cute and young for so long, and in fact she has to think about the long-term consquences of testosterone on her feminine appearance before they occur. This is why enlightened doctors now offer blockers to young transgirls to delay puberty.

As a man, I have no right to prescribe to women what they should or should not do. But they should be informed of the real situation, and not fed BS about the 'harmful' effects of hormones, when there are none, in a properly controlled regimen anyway.

What I would personally say, is that while as far as I am concerned a girl is a girl, I would probably not--actually certainly not--be involved with a transwoman who was not on a feminising hormone regime. It's just the way it is. Having experiences of the same transwomen while on and off, I can assure anyone that the differences are remarkable.

I agree that girls should not self-med if possible, but that is of no help at all to somone living in say the Philippines and much of the rest of the world, where doctors prepared to prescribe are very very rare. We shouldn't be making ex-cathedra statements telling people they must not do things when they basically have no choice.

[Amy Gray]

Personally, I think anyone who references Italian is always right. So, you get a pass from me.

Oh wait...
Awww, I want an ass from krissy! :(

[Prospero]

I am deeply impressed by the depth of Mac's knowledge on this topic and his very useful postings

[Amy Gray]

means that a TS is a TG but a TG is not necessarily a TS? ok but that does not help me too thank you very much

A square is a type of rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. In short, transsexuals are a bunch of squares. I mean that in the fondest way possible.

[danthepoetman]

I am deeply impressed by the depth of Mac's knowledge on this topic and his very useful postings
Indeed, Mac's post and Jamie's are great! But tell me, guys, couldn't Lily take only androgen blockers, to avoid becoming more masculine, until she makes a definite choice on what to do after?

[maddygirl]

Indeed, Mac's post and Jamie's are great! But tell me, guys, couldn't Lily take only androgen blockers, to avoid becoming more masculine, until she makes a definite choice on what to do after?
Just taking an androgen blocker without estrogen for an extended period of time isn't healthy either, because the person would essentially be blocking all sex hormones. This can lead to osteoporosis, among other things.

[VictoriaVeil]

Nicely put Krissy... succinct and to the point

The Umbrella Analogy continues!!!!!! yahhhhheeeee!

[danthepoetman]

Just taking an androgen blocker without estrogen for an extended period of time isn't healthy either, because the person would essentially be blocking all sex hormones. This can lead to osteoporosis, among other things.
I see. Thanks, Maddy. So if I understand properly, it's no use for her to do so. It would kill her sex drive and make the desicion even more difficult to take, I suppose...

[MacShreach]

Indeed, Mac's post and Jamie's are great! But tell me, guys, couldn't Lily take only androgen blockers, to avoid becoming more masculine, until she makes a definite choice on what to do after?

In the short term, yes, this is exactly what many doctors now prescribe for young transgirls. Kim Petras is a very famous example. However as Maddy said, you do need the hormones so in this particular application, you're only buying a respite, giving the young people time to consider and consult before taking further steps.

As I said, the therapy for a transwoman who is travelling all the way to SRS is very well established and has both low risk and high success rates. Therapy for a person who wishes to remain in an intermediate condition is not so well developed. That will change, however, as medicine catches up.

[GroobyKrissy]

Awww, I want an ass from krissy! :(

You had me at glasses. That is a stunning picture of you :).

[natina]

ALL Cd's,TV's,ts,dq etc or TG

IT JUST MEANS YOUR " GENDER" is different then the regular male

a feminine male is a transgender or a demasculinized male is a transgender