Political Correctness Has Missed Transgender?

[fire.starterman]

As someone who really dislikes political correctness yet is very keen on transsexuals I find society seems to pander, include and promote every kind of minority. The media seems to be a driving force for highlighting and attempting to tackle every 'ism' it can possibly think of. Yet trans people seem to get completely ignored!

Every soap seems to have over its quota of ethnic minorities. And gays are being forced down every straight guys throats kissing on tv. Yet the only attempt they seem to make on putting a transsexual on tv is Hayley in Coronation street. This, a character who in their wisdom they decided to have played by a very ugly genetic woman. Am I the only one who finds this offensive? To me the equivalent would be to decide you want a black guy portrayed but the picking a white guy because he's got huge lips and just 'blacking' him up. The ignorant public's image of a transsexual is of a trucker in drag and in this character they have just played into the stereotype.

Will we ever actually see a attractive transsexual on our tv screens portraying a decent character? Or is society just not ready for this yet?

[amberskyi]

Candis Cayne

[Stavros]

I think you are wrong on Hayley as she is probably closer in looks to most transexuals, particularly post-ops, and in that aspect I think it is hugely important precisely because she bucks the assumed role that transexuals are given with its associations of porn, prostitution and drugs. If there were to be an attractive transexual in a soap it would raise all sorts of problems about desire, and not just among the men. It would possibly be a distraction at first until, if the character is in for a good spell, the character falls victim to the usual routine in soap opera of affairs, lying, scheming, alcohol abuse etc. I don't think its about not being ready, it marks out the problem society has with a sexuality that it is both vivacious and threatening, and anyway who wants another version of the 'am i Gay?' theme which is what it would probably end up as. There was a transexual who won Big Brother in the UK, but ultimately it is about talent, and that may be another area where transexuals are lacking.

[amberskyi]

Ahh so transsexuals shouldn't be just as attractive a gg woman to protect the precious fragile straight male loll
The only way ts woman will be fully accepted in society as woman is to show that they are no different than woman and that there's nothing wrong with treating/viewing them accordingly

[tsadriana]

Sayng that about Hayley from Corrie ,no wonder why they chossed an lets say not ugly thats rude .lets say untractive woman for the transgender role its because if they choose a good looking one it will gonna end up in so many controversy and not only the guys might be tempted to be more intrested in Ts girl and thats not good for sopposed straight world..All they do its put alot of gays in the soaps not that affects me but the only thing they promote on soaps its gay relanthionships and nothing related to transexualism.

[MacShreach]

Ahh so transsexuals shouldn't be just as attractive a gg woman to protect the precious fragile straight male loll
The only way ts woman will be fully accepted in society as woman is to show that they are no different than woman and that there's nothing wrong with treating/viewing them accordingly

Well said.

[fire.starterman]

I think if we are going to use media like tv as more than just entertainment, but also as a way of challenging societies discrimination, it needs to actually challenge stereotypes, and also educate. There's no doubt there are now a lot of very attractive transsexuals out there, but if you were an alien sat on another planet, who, to get a reflection on our society was going to study television and film, you would not know they exist.

I know that thats a ridiculous notion, but I can't think of many other life style choices which are so ignored by television.

[tsadriana]

I think if we are going to use media like tv as more than just entertainment, but also as a way of challenging societies discrimination, it needs to actually challenge stereotypes, and also educate. There's no doubt there are now a lot of very attractive transsexuals out there, but if you were an alien sat on another planet, who, to get a reflection on our society was going to study television and film, you would not know they exist.

I know that thats a ridiculous notion, but I can't think of many other life style choices which are so ignored by television.
Yes they ignore so many things,that people become so confused and so wrong informed by Media ,that then they dont really know ,what to belleve,learn or see.

[fire.starterman]

Let me put it another way. Name me transsexuals who are well known in popular culture other than being porn stars. In the whole of television why haven't we got just one attractive young transsexual news reader, or weather girl, presenter, fashion expert, celeb chef etc etc?

If your a young gorgeous transsexual the only opinions are porn star.

[MacShreach]

ultimately it is about talent, and that may be another area where transexuals are lacking.

Yahoo. There is one simple reason why so few trans actresses (or actors) break through into mainstream, and that reason is prejudice. Kinda like the above.

[fire.starterman]

Yahoo. There is one simple reason why so few trans actresses (or actors) break through into mainstream, and that reason is prejudice. Kinda like the above.

Exactly! But why does it seem to be ignored?

[tsadriana]

Let me put it another way. Name me transsexuals who are well known in popular culture other than being porn stars. In the whole of television why haven't we got just one attractive young transsexual news reader, or weather girl, presenter, fashion expert, celeb chef etc etc?

If your a young gorgeous transsexual the only opinions are porn star.
Dana International from israel its well Known as a singer and she won Eurovision song contest with the song Diva in 1998.

[fire.starterman]

Dana International from israel its well Known as a singer and she won Eurovision song contest with the song Diva in 1998.

Ok, bit we're clutching at straws aren't we. If I said the same question but switch transsexuals for gay males and you can't switch on a tv program for seeing them on your screen. The ratio of people I know in my life who are gay to that of people I view on tv who are gay is totally unbalanced.

[MacShreach]

Let me put it another way. Name me transsexuals who are well known in popular culture other than being porn stars. In the whole of television why haven't we got just one attractive young transsexual news reader, or weather girl, presenter, fashion expert, celeb chef etc etc?

If your a young gorgeous transsexual the only opinions are porn star.

There's quite a number of mainstream fashion models who are trans, (which kinda zaps the lack of talent BS, unless you think any numpty can be a great model, in which case...I have nothing further to say). Maybe photographers, art directors and fashion designers are just less stuck in the mud than BBC producers.

Never. Ya think?

This is all about prejudice. I am no fan of 'Political Correctness' insofar as it is used to obscure and obfuscate, but I am very much in favour of people getting a fair deal, and being able to get as far as their talents and abilities will take them, without favour or prejudice.

And transsexuals don't get treated that way. It's that simple.

[tsadriana]

The Transsexual Bond Girl who played in the Bond movie For your eyes only ...she was the most stunningly woman from there.
http://magazine.xaxii.net/wp-content/uploads/magazine/pictures/447619.png

[MacShreach]

Ok, bit we're clutching at straws aren't we. If I said the same question but switch transsexuals for gay males and you can't switch on a tv program for seeing them on your screen. The ratio of people I know in my life who are gay to that of people I view on tv who are gay is totally unbalanced.
You're right and I am not disagreeing with you BTW.

[MacShreach]

The Transsexual Bond Girl who played in the Bond movie For your eyes only ...she was the most stunningly woman from there.
http://magazine.xaxii.net/wp-content/uploads/magazine/pictures/447619.png
Was Tula Cossey. She walked from one side of a swimming pool to another. I have so much time for Tula you wouldn't believe but she hardly bucked the trend--and anyway was in stealth at the time

[tsadriana]

Was Tula Cossey. She walked from one side of a swimming pool to another. I have so much time for Tula you wouldn't believe but she hardly bucked the trend--and anyway was in stealth at the time
I dont know if you remember ,but no one knew she was a Ts WHEN THE MOVIE bOND WAS MADE,THEY FIND OUT ONLY AFTER AND SHE HAD ALOT OF DIFICULT HARD TIMES BECAUSE OF THAT.

[MacShreach]

The very talented and sorely missed Robert Palmer used Tula in this 80s vid...and he knew exactly what he was doing


The Power Station - Some Like It Hot - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgYqIvnPvqQ)

[MacShreach]

I dont know if you remember ,but no one knew she was a Ts WHEN THE MOVIE bOND WAS MADE,THEY FIND OUT ONLY AFTER AND SHE HAD ALOT OF DIFICULT HARD TIMES BECAUSE OF THAT.


PMSL Sorry Adriana, you must be joking, or you weren't there. It must have been the worst-kept secret of all time LOL. Trust me, to say 'no-one knew' Tula was trans...sorry you are so wrong there.

[MacShreach]

In any case, if 'no-one knew' she was trans, then she wasn't bucking the trend, as I said...The point is that transwomen who are openly trans do not get a fair deal.

And BTW re my previous, I apologise, obviously you weren't there, you're far too young.

[tsadriana]

PMSL Sorry Adriana, you must be joking, or you weren't there. It must have been the worst-kept secret of all time LOL. Trust me, to say 'no-one knew' Tula was trans...sorry you are so wrong there.
Its what i have read on google darling .....

[tsadriana]

This is what i took from Wilkypedia now.
_____-__--__-----------_____-------_______________
Tula was cast as an extra in the 1981 James Bond film For Your Eyes Only. Shortly after the film’s release, the tabloid News of the World came out with a front page headline that read "James Bond Girl Was a Boy." By her own accounts, Tula was so upset she contemplated suicide. However, she continued her modelling career.[2] Tula responded by releasing I Am a Woman, her first autobiography.[4]

[fire.starterman]

I'm not gonna be happy until I see allanah star presenting my daily football fix in a tight fitted blouse showing off her cleavage on sky sports news! Lol

[MacShreach]

Its what i have read on google darling .....
Well, you should know better than to believe everything you read, especially on the internet LOL.

[tsadriana]

Well, you should know better than to believe everything you read, especially on the internet LOL.
Yes your right there.

[MacShreach]

I'm not gonna be happy until I see allanah star presenting my daily football fix in a tight fitted blouse showing off her cleavage on sky sports news! Lol
I'm with you on that.

[MacShreach]

Yes your right there.
Good I am glad you agree.

Just for info, in 1976-77 TUla was the lead model in a campaign for Life Helmets (long since defunct) in whic she appeared wearing only body paint along with some ordinary girl models. Every single one of the then extant UK motorcycle press ran the Life Helmets Press release, which made a point of stating that Tula was trans. This was not a problem, because everybody knew. She'd made no secret of her life as a formerly male dancer who transitioned.

[BellaBellucci]

Candis Cayne? :lol:

Yeah. Because there's nothing like pointing to a woman with a punny drag queen name referring to her former penis as the public face of transsexuality. I'm sure that will force society to accept that we're NOT men in dresses. :rolleyes:

I still love you though, Amber. ;)

~BB~

[MacShreach]

Here you go. Tula is driving.

[Amy Gray]

Let me put it another way. Name me transsexuals who are well known in popular culture other than being porn stars. In the whole of television why haven't we got just one attractive young transsexual news reader, or weather girl, presenter, fashion expert, celeb chef etc etc?

If your a young gorgeous transsexual the only opinions are porn star.

Maybe trans women would rather not be well known for being trans? Though Lana Wachowski comes to mind.

[Ecstatic]

Wow, I knew Tula was around pre-Bond, but I never saw that ad before. Playboy also featured her in a pictorial later in the '80s, their only trans pictorial ever afaik. They took a lot of heat for that.

[BellaBellucci]

Maybe trans women would rather not be well known for being trans? Though Lana Wachowski comes to mind.

Gods DAMN, I love her! <3

~BB~

[Ecstatic]

Maybe trans women would rather not be well known for being trans? Though Lana Wachowski comes to mind.

Or further back, Wendy Carlos, the musician formerly known as Walter.

[amberskyi]

Candis Cayne? :lol:

Yeah. Because there's nothing like pointing to a woman with a punny drag queen name referring to her former penis as the public face of transsexuality. I'm sure that will force society to accept that we're NOT men in dresses. :rolleyes:

I still love you though, Amber. ;)

~BB~

I never said she needed to be the face of the ts community but she has had some mainstream acting roles and is attractive which is the criteria the OP was looking for.

[BellaBellucci]

I never said she needed to be the face of the ts community but she has had some mainstream acting roles and is attractive which is the criteria the OP was looking for.

True. But her name bugs the ever-living shit out of me. :lol:

And let's face it, a name is the label of a person's identity. It says a lot more than people realize.

~BB~

[MacShreach]

Wow, I knew Tula was around pre-Bond, but I never saw that ad before. Playboy also featured her in a pictorial later in the '80s, their only trans pictorial ever afaik. They took a lot of heat for that.
You sure? I thought I'd posted that here before.

Nway. It was 76, you know? Punk--the real stuff--had arrived. The Pistols had just turned the cultural landscape on its ear. Ska had returned. The Queen still mattered and she had a jubilee, but the country was bankrupt. We were all smoking pot, driving motorcycles, screwing like crazy and waiting for the Russkis to blow us all to fuck.

Nobody gave a shit what Tula's background was, it was all cool. Everything was cool.

By 1981, Thatcher had arrived...

Since you like her and you're a nice lad...

[MacShreach]

I have to say though, I blame Tula for everything. She was the one that did for me. Her and that fucking body paint my god I had dreams about that. Did I have dreams! And you know she's six foot? Holy crap! Heaven on legs!

[fred41]

Yeah...I mean,if a transsexual makes it in mainstream media as a woman...I would guess chances are she not going to come out because it would already be "mission accomplished" for her...unless she was outed by some asshole. There may , in fact already be some more names we can't come up with because no one knows they're transsexual.

[Castor_Troy05]

Sadly political correctness only really protects the easily offended. Complete waste of time and we won't have any assistance from them for Trans women.

Mainstream acceptance would not be having someone be famous and trans, it'd just be acceptance of her as another woman in whichever field she's in. Kim Petras for example, seems to constantly be rolled out as "youngest ever sex change" yet her music is always a distant afterthought. I'd love nothing more than to see TS women occupying leading lady roles or whatever, instead of being a bad punchline to a joke only misogynists laugh at

[MacShreach]

Sadly political correctness only really protects the easily offended. Complete waste of time and we won't have any assistance from them for Trans women.

Mainstream acceptance would not be having someone be famous and trans, it'd just be acceptance of her as another woman in whichever field she's in. Kim Petras for example, seems to constantly be rolled out as "youngest ever sex change" yet her music is always a distant afterthought. I'd love nothing more than to see TS women occupying leading lady roles or whatever, instead of being a bad punchline to a joke only misogynists laugh at

Actually I like Kim, she's a talented wee minx. Wish she wouldn't speak so quick though

Cyndi Lauper Girls just wanna have fun - Kim Petras Cover - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVe2QneeFM8)

Or Bell Nuntita, who enbraces the fact that she's trans.

Transgender at "Thailand&#39;s Got Talent" surprises the audience! - Transexual cantora surpreende! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZAiz86XQHg)

[Castor_Troy05]

I wasn't having a go at Kim, I wish they would allow her music to talk for her instead of her past. I too think she's talented. She speaks like she learned english from Scottish people as we all talk too fast too haha

. As for Bell, I am in awe of that woman

[MacShreach]

I wasn't having a go at Kim, I wish they would allow her music to talk for her instead of her past. I too think she's talented. She speaks like she learned english from Scottish people as we all talk too fast too haha

. As for Bell, I am in awe of that woman
You're right on all that and I didn't think you were having a go, it was just an excuse to give her some air. I also think what you said about PC was right.

[Castor_Troy05]

You're right on all that and I didn't think you were having a go, it was just an excuse to give her some air. I also think what you said about PC was right.

Always good to see either of those two so I welcome more excuses to do so

[GroobyKrissy]

Kind of stupid (and telling) that Hit & Miss cast Chloe Sevigny (who I like) instead of finding a TS. Wonder what will happen when / if the show trickles to US.

[dderek123]

Or Bell Nuntita, who enbraces the fact that she's trans.


She's on TV over there quite often. And had cameos in movies and whatnot.

Unfortunately she was estranged from her family for a long time. But, when she was discovered on the talent show she was reunited with her parents. It was really touching, my ex shed a tear while watching it on TV.

[Bruce Wayne]

What about Jamie Clayton she played Thomas Jane lover on Hung and not as a drag queen or transvestite.

[Castor_Troy05]

Lets not forget Laverne Cox in the upcoming Netflix show "Orange is the new black"

[Odelay]

Kind of stupid (and telling) that Hit & Miss cast Chloe Sevigny (who I like) instead of finding a TS. Wonder what will happen when / if the show trickles to US.

Chloe Sevigny? Huh... kind of ironic as she played the femme fatale who was pursued by an FTM in Boys Don't Cry.

[Stavros]

Yahoo. There is one simple reason why so few trans actresses (or actors) break through into mainstream, and that reason is prejudice. Kinda like the above.

The prejudice is on your side, having decided there are talented transexual actors who can't get a job, which for all I know may be true. You obviously don''t want to admit that most of the cast of most soap operas are not good at what they do, it may pay the rent but the quality of acting in soap operas has been a standing joke for years. And where there have been transexuals who acted -Eva Robin's for example- they have also been successful and in her case prejudice had nothing to prevent her success, so I am aware that there are transexuals with acting ability -but in terms of volume I don't know how many transexuals want to act, and I doubt it is a lot.

[Prospero]

Shame that when they created a drama about a trangendered "hitman" they cast a GG in the role - Hit and Miss.... with Chloe Sevigny. She was good and it was a positive portrayal but how much better, in terms of wider acceptance, it would have been if the tral transgendered actress had been cast in that role.

But it is early days i think. There must be some young transgendered women who will, eventually, become important actresses. But inherent in that is also a contradiction. They should be cast in a variety of roles - anything from a Bond Girl to a costume drama about Elizabethan England - where they are women, rather than the ghettoised portrayal of "girls with a difference.' Then we'll be making progress.

So far most of the talent is in other fields - modelling for sure - and in areas such as music (Wendy carlos and a jazz bass player whose name i can't recall) art, the sciences and more.

[MacShreach]

The prejudice is on your side, having decided there are talented transexual actors who can't get a job, which for all I know may be true. You obviously don''t want to admit that most of the cast of most soap operas are not good at what they do, it may pay the rent but the quality of acting in soap operas has been a standing joke for years. And where there have been transexuals who acted -Eva Robin's for example- they have also been successful and in her case prejudice had nothing to prevent her success, so I am aware that there are transexuals with acting ability -but in terms of volume I don't know how many transexuals want to act, and I doubt it is a lot.
I will grant you the courtesy of assuming that you are less familiar with English than your own language.

To recap, I have always, and throughout this thread, supported fair treatment of transsexuals, and I was criticising the prejudice against them, not supporting it.

This is not the first time I have had cause to wonder about your reading skills. I am not going to address your comment in detail, since it definitely does not warrant the effort.

[Prospero]

Mac... Stavros is as British as you and me...

[MacShreach]

Mac... Stavros is as British as you and me...
Sorry, I'm not British. But anyway, I was just being nice.

[Prospero]

I assumed you were a Scot

[MacShreach]

I assumed you were a Scot
Indeed I am. And European.

[MacShreach]

To give a wider context, I do come from the British Isles, but in political terms I reject the Union, the monarchy, et alia and do not have any loyalty at all to the 'British' State. Therefore I do not consider myself 'British' and rather, Scottish and European. With any luck this situation will be regularised in the not-too-distant future.

[Prospero]

LOL... I wouldn't count on it. Latest opinion polls suggest otherwise.

[MacShreach]

Well, they have been wrong before, and if my compadres are stupid enough to reject the opportunity they are being offered, then I will simply finalise my naturalisation as French. So the situation will be regularised, one way or the other.

[Prospero]

As an Irish ancestored exile i do sympathise with your position

[MacShreach]

Good. I have delayed naturalisation out of respect for those still at home who continue to struggle against the British State, its lies and interference. But at the end of the day, being European and part of a real Union is much more important than being part of an obsolete hangover from an Imperial past. I'll be happy either to have a Scottish passport or a French one.

[Stavros]

I will grant you the courtesy of assuming that you are less familiar with English than your own language.

To recap, I have always, and throughout this thread, supported fair treatment of transsexuals, and I was criticising the prejudice against them, not supporting it.

This is not the first time I have had cause to wonder about your reading skills. I am not going to address your comment in detail, since it definitely does not warrant the effort.

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

[MacShreach]

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

Please do not flatter yourself that you have shown any 'intellectual weakness' in my arguments.

I must confess that I do not overly like you, however. Tough. Put me in your block list.

[Castor_Troy05]

I find the assumption, that the talent pool of trans actors is small due them not wishing to act, laughable. Given the reluctance of society and the media to allow them to perform in roles peacefully, it's hardly by their own choice there aren't more. I do not believe anyone here is asking for them to create trans roles for them, merely allow them to be the women or men, they should be. It's unlikely we'll ever see a trans friendly Bond bedding a TS Bond girl, but we can hope there will be gradual,acceptance in time

[amberskyi]

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

But they've already done it lol.
Look up the show "dirty, sexy money".i believe it was on the abc or nbc network

[bluesoul]

Ahh so transsexuals shouldn't be just as attractive a gg woman to protect the precious fragile straight male loll

would you rather have trassexuals accurately portrayed or simply portrayed by beautiful ggs? do you put looks above personality?

i actually agree with stravos: if they choose someone really beautiful, would people even notice or care about the character anymore? and if that was the case, why even bring up their being trans as part of the story?

[amberskyi]

would you rather have trassexuals accurately portrayed or simply portrayed by beautiful ggs? do you put looks above personality?

i actually agree with stravos: if they choose someone really beautiful, would people even notice or care about the character anymore? and if that was the case, why even bring up their being trans as part of the story?

I think the full spectrum of ts woman should be represented. Yea some are "masculine", but also some are average looks and some are drop dead gorgeous.
So far the majority of ts portrayal is masculine. Candis Cayne actually spoke about how abc wanted her to deepen her voice to drive home her ts status but she refused.

[bluesoul]

So far the majority of ts portrayal is masculine. Candis Cayne actually spoke about how abc wanted her to deepen her voice to drive home her ts status but she refused.

well, i don't know the role she was playing, but if the story specifies the character is TS, how is the audience know besides actually voicing it?

television and film are about showing and not telling. if the role was for a woman and didn't specify she was ts or gg, then i can understand her stance.

btw: just realized i really hate typing gg. which other options do i have?

[amberskyi]

well, i don't know the role she was playing, but if the story specifies the character is TS, how is the audience know besides actually voicing it?

television and film are about showing and not telling. if the role was for a woman and didn't specify she was ts or gg, then i can understand her stance.

btw: just realized i really hate typing gg. which other options do i have?

so characters should be a collection of stereotypes and overt caricatures lol.that not good acting,script writing or directing.
you wouldnt have a character of african decent in a full kente cloth ensemble, with a spear, riding an elephant just to get across the person is from africa would lol

[bluesoul]

so characters should be a collection of stereotypes and overt caricatures lol.that not good acting,script writing or directing.
you wouldnt have a character of african decent in a full kente cloth ensemble, with a spear, riding an elephant just to get across the person is from africa would lol

that's actually how films get financing and distribution. the character doesn't have to dress in full kente clothing with a spear riding an elephant, but distributors want to know his african without him saying so. so they'll get an actor like don cheedle and ask him to do an african accent exactly like he did in hotel rwanda. now- does everyone in africa talk like that? in fact, the character that cheedle plays, paul rusesabagina speaks a more british english. but cheedle (and the director) have to make this accessible to everyone and such details are usually overlooked for something more contemporary.

in the same way, not every transsexual "sounds" like a gg so mainstream cinema and television will always go for what "everyone" thinks they sound like. that's what distributors and producers want.

if you want something more realistic, perhaps you should start supporting independent film which will take chances and even feature stories that people actually care about. everything else your talking about is done for profit first and entertainment- never education or information.

but you know what? perhaps lana wachowski in the near future with do trannies a solid and feature an all sci-fi transsexual cast in a blockbuster feature.

[Prospero]

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

[amberskyi]

that's actually how films get financing and distribution. the character doesn't have to dress in full kente clothing with a spear riding an elephant, but distributors want to know his african without him saying so. so they'll get an actor like don cheedle and ask him to do an african accent exactly like he did in hotel rwanda. now- does everyone in africa talk like that? in fact, the character that cheedle plays, paul rusesabagina speaks a more british english. but cheedle (and the director) have to make this accessible to everyone and such details are usually overlooked for something more contemporary.

in the same way, not every transsexual "sounds" like a gg so mainstream cinema and television will always go for what "everyone" thinks they sound like. that's what distributors and producers want.

if you want something more realistic, perhaps you should start supporting independent film which will take chances and even feature stories that people actually care about. everything else your talking about is done for profit first and entertainment- never education or information.

but you know what? perhaps lana wachowski in the near future with do trannies a solid and feature an all sci-fi transsexual cast in a blockbuster feature.

I'm actually all for idie films, mostly horror tho.
To me this issue is not that different from the stereotypical roles that blacks and latinos often get in hollywood.fuck popular perception.popular perception does not equal right

[Cecil Rhodes]

Love / Jamie Clayton on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/21597580)

[MacShreach]

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

Yeah...but.

1 yes, because there is a shortage of decent scripts because writers don't produce material with TS as centrepieces because they don't see it as commercialy viable. (You could buy The Warm Pink Jelly Express Train (http://rarerosepress.com/) ebook for $2.50 and buck this trend. Make it worth my while, I'll write more. Get stuff like this noticed, movie producers will pay attention. Simples.)

2. Possible; partly because of 1, not enough material to work in, so no way to gain necessary experience. However an established route into acting is through mainsream modelling and there are now a few TS models.

3 I agree totally, but when you're running a production budget of millions you need guaranteed deliverers, and 1&2 above already compromise the availability of said

4 Goes without saying. However, the TS actresses whom there are came in through TS-specific roles and that is unlikely to change for the foreseeable.Clearly in an ideal world, no-one would pay a blind bit of notice as to whether a woman was trans or cis, they'd just watch her act.

The upshot is that for there to be more TS actresses, there needs to be more material for them to play, which means there must be an established audience, which brings me back to my response to 1 above.

You only have to go back to the fifties to see a time when there were very very few blackfilm actors and really no black male leads. With changing social conditions, more roles came up, giving black actors and actresses the opportunity to develop their skills, until now, when there is simply no question that some of the best and most bankable movie stars are black. There are many similarities, even if they are not completely analogous cases. /rant

[bluesoul]

fuck popular perception.popular perception does not equal right

i don't think you understand. they don't care about being right or wrong. they only care about making money. you really think they're going to invest $50 million plus to say fuck popular perception?

besides- hasn't tyler perry built a career from stereotyping black people?

[bluesoul]

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

i thought you work in film.

1. this is n/a. any role can be changed to fit any character. there is currently no demand to make characters transsexual
2. actually, it's more likely nobody is willing to invest for a major motion picture with a transsexual as the lead (or supporting). it is also possibly nobody looking to invest in a transsexual actor (or there is and they cannot succeed doing so because of reason in 1)
3. it's called acting- you know, the same way they got an irish guy to play oskar schindler (a german native)
4. check reasons 1 + 2

[MacShreach]

i thought you work in film.

1. this is n/a. any role can be changed to fit any character. there is currently no demand to make characters transsexual
2. actually, it's more likely nobody is willing to invest for a major motion picture with a transsexual as the lead (or supporting). it is also possibly nobody looking to invest in a transsexual actor (or there is and they cannot succeed doing so because of reason in 1)
3. it's called acting- you know, the same way they got an irish guy to play oskar schindler (a german native)
4. check reasons 1 + 2

Yup. 'no demand' and 'nobody willing to invest' because of it. When producers think it's a profitable move they'll do itall right.

[amberskyi]

Hollywood is mostly shit anyway

[bluesoul]

^^ wrong. making money is the shit

http://i.imgur.com/lvJCA.gif

[starkem]

Hmmm...interesting indeed. Reality versus perception and profitability/preferability versus perfection/perception. Talent and creativity will ultimately make these arguments moot. However, all political correction must enter through a stage of the hypothetical; generate awareness through talent, creativity; and, ultimately, present viable alternative profitability and practicality for the targeted entertainment industry to make concrete change happen.

The dilemma here is the willingness of non-trans persons to work with transgendered persons -and for all of the practical reasons heretofore mentioned (however unpopular or rejected as practical reasons) the change necessary may not be in the interest of such an industry. There is, however, an instaneous injustice in allowing a female born person to play a role centered on a character based upon transgendered origin. That fight is within our grasp for those similarly affected as such.

Misrepresentation of any issues suggests an injustice for which the patience of the passage of time to correct is intolerable. It is such an empassioned intolerance for which sympathy and understanding is not needed to demand correction or convey discontent. Yet, no anger or argument is as resolute as building your own Hollywood. India does it. Supporting transgender talents in their personal ventures is another self-empowering method of correction. These methods are not easily attained; yet, it would be more successful than the back and forth with people incapable of such considerations.

[amberskyi]

^^ wrong. making money is the shit

http://i.imgur.com/lvJCA.gif

I value intellectual stimulation and good movies over bull shit like "fast & furious 4" or another goddamn spider man remake.Hollywood is lazy but lucky for them the masses are idiots and don't care that they are being feed regurgitated crap.

[Castor_Troy05]

I value intellectual stimulation and good movies over bull shit like "fast & furious 4" or another goddamn spider man remake.Hollywood is lazy but lucky for them the masses are idiots and don't care that they are being feed regurgitated crap.


Amber, i love you
:Bowdown:

[starkem]

Somehow that is correct albeit a little harsh. :hide-1::party:


I value intellectual stimulation and good movies over bull shit like "fast & furious 4" or another goddamn spider man remake.Hollywood is lazy but lucky for them the masses are idiots and don't care that they are being feed regurgitated crap.

[fred41]

3. it's called acting- you know, the same way they got an irish guy to play oskar schindler (a german native)


Spot on.
Actors should be able to play almost any part. That kind of defines what an actor does. With certain ethnicity it is usually easier (not always) to find an actor of the same ethnicity..or close enough where solid acting can abolish the less obvious. The same holds true for gender....when it is visually obvious. Nowadays,males usually play male roles...and females usually play female roles. Since transsexuals are females,...they can be portrayed by an already available pool of female talent...unless perhaps the role calls for a very specific transsexual "look"....but that would then only open up very specific, stereotypical roles.
It's interesting to note that the OP speaks of homosexual roles...however at least here in the USA, homosexual roles are not always played by homosexuals, just as straight roles are not always played by straight actors...because they don't have to be.
...and it isn't shoved down anyones throat.Kissing is kissing. People do it.Simple.

[fred41]

I value intellectual stimulation and good movies over bull shit like "fast & furious 4" or another goddamn spider man remake.Hollywood is lazy but lucky for them the masses are idiots and don't care that they are being feed regurgitated crap.

...there are plenty of choices for you to see in the world of film.

The big blockbuster movies make money because sometimes people after a long week just want to watch a movie version of eye candy. That doesn't always make it, or them, stupid...plus a lot of people need films that the whole family can watch. Spider Man type films fit that bill.

[amberskyi]

...there are plenty of choices for you to see in the world of film.

The big blockbuster movies make money because sometimes people after a long week just want to watch a movie version of eye candy. That doesn't always make it, or them, stupid...plus a lot of people need films that the whole family can watch. Spider Man type films fit that bill.

I'm not against blockbusters, what I'm against is unoriginal remakes of the same movies or spinning the same idea in slightly different ways.
Of course one can argue everything is recycled but the cycle shouldn't be a couple of decades or less.

[amberskyi]

Amber, i love you
:Bowdown:

Xoxoxo

[fred41]

I'm not against blockbusters, what I'm against is unoriginal remakes of the same movies or spinning the same idea in slightly different ways.
Of course one can argue everything is recycled but the cycle shouldn't be a couple of decades or less.

I would agree. The new,original Spider Man was totally unnecessary. Stuff like that.

If you like small, but good movies, you often need to delve into foreign films. it gives you so much more to watch that you didn't often know was out there.
As far as horror is concerned the Asian market has put a new spin on it the last decade or so...and it's been copied by Hollywood since then. I also love french horror...and have seen a lot of the movies quoted by Dino on other threads.
The problem I often have with foreign films, when watching at home, is that I frequently like smoking weed before a film and that sometimes makes reading difficult...especially when the subtitles aren't written up to par. For instance, one of my favorite horror series is the Russian - "Day Watch" and "Night Watch"...but the subtitles are awful and it is hard (if you are just slightly stoned) to read the captions and still keep up with the visuals.
...but worth it never the less.

[bluesoul]

Since transsexuals are females,...they can be portrayed by an already available pool of female talent...unless perhaps the role calls for a very specific transsexual "look"....but that would then only open up very specific, stereotypical roles.

i agree with everything you said except this part. M2F transsexuals looked upon as transgendered women. transwomen and gg are considered different- so it's actually more likely they will get a male to play the part of a ts (eg. the gwen arujo story, bad education, the crying game, breakfast on pluto).

using a woman is usually considered much more risky and much more difficult to pull off (transamerica, tales from the city, orlando). don't believe me? check the budget for these films and compare it to the budget of the films with men playing transgendered roles. would albert nobbs be considered a trans-film? check the budget

btw: i specifically left out comedies in my examples for obvious reasons

and just to add: any film with transsexuals (M2F or F2M) as the main subject is automatically given a tag as having "gay and lesbian relations". this is done and enforced by the MPAA

now, i know a lot of people aren't going to like what i said above so here is how to change it:

1). support what you want to see. if you want to see projects with transgendered women- support them. if you want to see projects with transgendered men- support them. if they don't exist, find someone willing to make them and invest in them. then support them.

2). support risky films. this includes independent and mainstream hollywood projects. if films that take risks make money, then more risky films will be made.

[fred41]

i agree with everything you said except this part. M2F transsexuals looked upon as transgendered women- so it's actually more likely they will get a male to play the part of a ts (eg. the gwen arujo story, bad education, the crying game, breakfast on pluto).

using a woman is usually considered much more risky and much more difficult to pull off (transamerica, tales from the city, orlando). don't believe me? check the budget for these films and compare it to the budget of the films with men playing transgendered roles. would albert nobbs be considered a trans-film? check the budget


No no...I get what you're saying. But it still means you can use a pool of talent already existing...

though I think that will change more with society's viewing of transsexuals as women.

...not to mention anything under the "transgender umbrella" can probably be played by anything under the "transgender umbrella"...as in "the Crying Game".