It's OK to shoot an escort if she won't have sex with you...

[Willie Escalade]

http://gawker.com/texas-says-its-ok-to-shoot-an-escort-if-she-wont-have-511636423

Let's conversate.
:grouphug

[robertlouis]

http://gawker.com/texas-says-its-ok-to-shoot-an-escort-if-she-wont-have-511636423

Let's conversate.
:grouphug

Sickest state in the union.

Weren't they going to secede?

[trish]

Merely standing his ground, goddamit. He paid for satisfaction and got it. When the escort said "No" she was not only endangering his sex life for the evening (it's not easy getting laid at such a late hour) but his reputation (he's got a dick you can't refuse). Ya gotta draw the line somewhere. In Texas, here's where they draw it.

[youngblood61]

Amazing, are you kidding me?:)

[sweetts18]

So... wait... he KILLED someone... over something as superficial and meaningless as sex for money (or lack of sex, but still money), and a judge let him go because it was his "property"? ...no. that is MURDER, along with numerous other crimes that deserve punishments.

[robertlouis]

Just a reminder, Americans.

Don't vote for a Texan president again.

Please.

[Cecil Rhodes]

i'm glad I didn't post this thread when I had the chance ...... lol

It was not the Sex . It was the Theft of his $150.00 . She was doing a standard Bait & Switch / Rip-Off Craigslist/Backpage type Scam . Let's not forget the driver .... pimp .... boyfriend waiting outside . Was he waiting to drive her home ..... or to rob the guy . You never know, but it happens all of the time .

Those of you that escort need to take note of this . If you give someone a price, you better mean it and not up sale after you get the money you asked for . This could happen to any of you and you need to play it safe . If you want $350.00 then say so . Don't say $200.00, collect it and then say that anything else is extra .

[Cecil Rhodes]

Just a reminder, Americans.

Don't vote for a Texan president again.

Please.

ROTFLMAO ........ Bush is from Connecticut

[robertlouis]

i'm glad I didn't post this thread when I had the chance ...... lol

It was not the Sex . It was the Theft of his $150.00 . She was doing a standard Bait & Switch / Rip-Off Craigslist/Backpage type Scam . Let's not forget the driver .... pimp .... boyfriend waiting outside . Was he waiting to drive her home ..... or to rob the guy . You never know, but it happens all of the time .

Those of you that escort need to take note of this . If you give someone a price, you better mean it and not up sale after you get the money you asked for . This could happen to any of you and you need to play it safe . If you want $350.00 then say so . Don't say $200.00, collect it and then say that anything else is extra .

But not enough to be murdered, surely?

[Cecil Rhodes]

But not enough to be murdered, surely?

She wasn't murdered .

[robertlouis]

She wasn't murdered .

FFS Cecil. Maybe not in the mad testosterone-driven nuthouse that is Texas, but in any sane jurisdiction this was murder or manslaughter at the very least.

[Cecil Rhodes]

FFS Cecil. Maybe not in the mad testosterone-driven nuthouse that is Texas, but in any sane jurisdiction this was murder or manslaughter at the very least.

She was stealing property and was told to stop . She was shot . The law allowed it . She did not die . The victim [ accused / acquitted ] did not intend to kill, but to stop . Mens Rea ie Intent is necessary for Guilt .

[Cecil Rhodes]

FFS Cecil. Maybe not in the mad testosterone-driven nuthouse that is Texas, but in any sane jurisdiction this was murder or manslaughter at the very least.

like in the UK ....... just ask Michael Duggan

[robertlouis]

She was stealing property and was told to stop . She was shot . The law allowed it . She did not die . The victim [ accused / acquitted ] did not intend to kill, but to stop . Mens Rea ie Intent is necessary for Guilt .

Then, to quote Mr Bumble, "The law is a ass."

[robertlouis]

like in the UK ....... just ask Michael Duggan

Fair enough. There are too many cases here of people dying in police custody, fewer of them being shot, but these circumstances are completely different.

In a culture - and I'm talking about Texas, not generalising the whole USA - where gun-totin' is like wearing your balls outside your pants, it doesn't surprise me that this happened. Nor that the prick got away with it.

And yes, I've been to Texas, business and pleasure. Mostly Dallas but also Houston and, thank goodness, played a couple of gigs in Austin, a civilised island of normality in a sea of madness.

[trish]

Bait and switch my ass. The ad said escort_not hooker. But for the sake of argument let's call bait-and-switch. She was shot for $150.00 and that's considered legal in the fucked-up-the-ass-state-of-texas. In sane and civilized regions of the world penny-ante bait and switch is not a shooting offense. The assailant should be sitting in jail and have his firearm confiscated. (Go ahead idiot, give me a thumbs down now).

[Cecil Rhodes]

Bait and switch my ass. The ad said escort_not hooker. But for the sake of argument let's call bait-and-switch. She was shot for $150.00 and that's considered legal in the fucked-up-the-ass-state-of-texas. In sane and civilized regions of the world penny-ante bait and switch is not a shooting offense. The assailant should be sitting in jail and have his firearm confiscated. (Go ahead idiot, give me a thumbs down now).

This post is not even worth my time critiquing .

[trish]

Doesn't it just aggravate you that by disparaging Texas and disagreeing with you I've committed a shooting offense and yet the only thing you can do is give me a thumbs down? What losers!

[Willie Escalade]

Actually, the shooting paralyzed her and she dies months later (don't know if it was related or not)...

Go Spurs!

[robertlouis]

So, let me try and get this straight. You are holding someone else's property and for whatever reason you refuse to give it back.

The property owner then draws a gun and shoots you, paralysing you with a wound from which you subsequently die.

The case goes to trial and the shooter is acquitted because the law says he was within his rights to do so?

That is just fucked-up beyond words.

[Cecil Rhodes]

So, let me try and get this straight. You are holding someone else's property and for whatever reason you refuse to give it back.

The property owner then draws a gun and shoots you, paralysing you with a wound from which you subsequently die.

The case goes to trial and the shooter is acquitted because the law says he was within his rights to do so?

That is just fucked-up beyond words.

No . What is fucked up is

1] Stealing from someone while in their presence when they have a gun and tell you to give their property back and you refuse .

2] Ridiculing someone who has no say in what happened nor was he involved that only commented on the what and the why of the outcome of the case .

I guess you would think differently if this case involved the scuffing of a pair of sneakers instead of taking $150.00 .

[Cecil Rhodes]

Doesn't it just aggravate you that by disparaging Texas and disagreeing with you I've committed a shooting offense and yet the only thing you can do is give me a thumbs down? What losers!

You told me to give you a thumbs down . ...... remember ?

As far as aggravating me you don't . That would be on the level of you doing the same thing when I say 2 + 2 = 4 and you say it is not .

[robertlouis]

No . What is fucked up is

1] Stealing from someone while in their presence when they have a gun and tell you to give their property back and you refuse .

2] Ridiculing someone who has no say in what happened nor was he involved that on commented on the what and the why of the outcome of the case .

I guess you would thing differently if this case involved the scuffing of a pair of sneakers instead of taking $150.00 .

Nope. I'll never understand, thank goodness, the basic idiocy of a culture in which it's somehow ok to whip out a gun and use it at the least provocation and then for the law to uphold your right to do so.

[feneman]

No . What is fucked up is

1] Stealing from someone while in their presence when they have a gun and tell you to give their property back and you refuse .



Yes i know, back from a looong hiatus.

But to be honest, the whole story is just crazy.

First, maybe it s the canadian in me (hey, nobody is perfect) but just carrying a gun around is crazy to me.

Second, no matter if i am stealing or i am getting robbed, MY LIFE IS NOT WORTH 150$, period ! Hell, i probably make that in a couple of hours of work anyways.
Once she saw the gun she should have just thrown the money and scram, no way around that. Her resisting is the craziest - stupidest part of the story
She probably died because of her own stupidity, do not argue with the guy holding the gun.

Just my 2 cents though.

[maxpower]

ROTFLMAO ........ Bush is from Connecticut

Being born here doesn't make him from here. He has lived in Texas nearly all his life.

[robertlouis]

Being born here doesn't make him from here. He has lived in Texas nearly all his life.

And I'll bet that makes everyone in Connecticut just a tad relieved.....

[Cecil Rhodes]

Yes i know, back from a looong hiatus.

But to be honest, the whole story is just crazy.

First, maybe it s the canadian in me (hey, nobody is perfect) but just carrying a gun around is crazy to me.

Second, no matter if i am stealing or i am getting robbed, MY LIFE IS NOT WORTH 150$, period ! Hell, i probably make that in a couple of hours of work anyways.
Once she saw the gun she should have just thrown the money and scram, no way around that. Her resisting is the craziest - stupidest part of the story
She probably died because of her own stupidity, do not argue with the guy holding the gun.

Just my 2 cents though.

somebody gets it

[trish]

Yes it's stupid to argue with someone with a gun. What's not to get about that? But it's criminal not to prosecute a man who shot and killed a woman because she refused to give back a $150 escorting fee on the basis that he thought he didn't get what he paid for.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Yes it's stupid to argue with someone with a gun. What's not to get about that? But it's criminal not to prosecute a man who shot and killed a woman because she refused to give back a $150 escorting fee on the basis that he thought he didn't get what he paid for.

he was prosecuted and was acquitted by a jury . don't even play that escorting crap either . we all know what it is .

[trish]

And the jury was full of crazy ass Texans. They're always talking about personal responsibility in Texas but they won't even hold a criminal responsible for shooting and killing a woman because she refused to give back a $150 escort fee on the basis that he thought he didn't get what he paid for. Criminal, disgusting and fucked-up. Only in Texas.

[ARMANIXXX]

This case is really simple.

The girl went to the guy's house, and committed fraud and/or robbery.
In Texas, they shoot for robbery.

Dead Broad. End of story.

As the signs say:
DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS.

[trish]

Yeah, hell with the charge against the victim...fraud, robbery...doesn't matter...not going to pursue due process anyway...don't believe in it...wouldn't be prudent....just shoot them and let the murderer go free. That's why Texas is a backward ass state.

[runround04]

I bet no other escorts will steal $150 from anyone in that town from now on. You steal, you get shot in the throat, simple. I need to move to Texas!!

[trish]

I bet you shoot your eye out.

[BigDF]

Bait and switch my ass. The ad said escort_not hooker. But for the sake of argument let's call bait-and-switch. She was shot for $150.00 and that's considered legal in the fucked-up-the-ass-state-of-texas. In sane and civilized regions of the world penny-ante bait and switch is not a shooting offense. The assailant should be sitting in jail and have his firearm confiscated. (Go ahead idiot, give me a thumbs down now). The real problem with this is that so many people seem to think that someone who is in the sex industry is less than a real person. And it seems a lot of them post on this site, which really seems odd to me since it pretty much is promoting the sex industry. Anyone who finds justification in what this asshole did is just stupid.:ignore:

[Cecil Rhodes]

And the jury was full of crazy ass Texans. They're always talking about personal responsibility in Texas but they won't even hold a criminal responsible for shooting and killing a woman because she refused to give back a $150 escort fee on the basis that he thought he didn't get what he paid for. Criminal, disgusting and fucked-up. Only in Texas.

stop being Racist .

[Cecil Rhodes]

This case is really simple.

The girl went to the guy's house, and committed fraud and/or robbery.
In Texas, they shoot for robbery.

Dead Broad. End of story.

As the signs say:
DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS.

pretty much .

[Cecil Rhodes]

Yeah, hell with the charge against the victim...fraud, robbery...doesn't matter...not going to pursue due process anyway...don't believe in it...wouldn't be prudent....just shoot them and let the murderer go free. That's why Texas is a backward ass state.

The victim was prosecuted, but it wasn't for Fraud or Robbery . It was for Murder . It was Due Process that got him acquitted . Texas is not a State to commit Murder in . They execute you there for that . Florida is another . They have a contest going on seeing who can execute more .

[Prospero]

America absurd and insane obsession with guns triumphs again. For fuck's sake she was just an escort ... who cares about her.

Texas is the shithole of the US

[Cecil Rhodes]

America absurd and insane obsession with guns triumphs again. For fuck's sake she was just an escort ... who cares about her.

Texas is the shithole of the US

I've waiting on Prospero to chime in .

[Prospero]

Well with the sort of asinine remarks you generally post it is sometimes unnecessary to comment cecil - you make a fool of yourself well enough without further action.
But since, on this, others share the sick obsession with guns I could not resist.

[Prospero]

The real problem with this is that so many people seem to think that someone who is in the sex industry is less than a real person. And it seems a lot of them post on this site, which really seems odd to me since it pretty much is promoting the sex industry. Anyone who finds justification in what this asshole did is just stupid.:ignore:
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Vladimir Putin]

San Antonio Express-News, Thursday, June 6, 2013

JURY ACQUITS ESCORT SHOOTER

By MICHELLE MONDO, San Antonio Express-News staff writer

A Bexar County jury on Wednesday acquitted Ezekiel Gilbert of murder in the death of a 23-year-old Craigslist escort.

Gilbert, 30, embraced defense attorneys Bobby Barrera and Roy Barrera Sr. with tears in his eyes after the not guilty verdict was read aloud by state District Judge Mary Roman.

Outside the courtroom, Gilbert thanked God, the Barrera family and the jury for being able to “see what wasn't the truth” and for the “second chance.”

Had he been convicted, he could have faced up to life in prison for the slaying of Lenora Ivie Frago who died about seven months after she was shot in the neck and paralyzed on Christmas Eve 2009. Gilbert admitted shooting Frago.

“I sincerely regret the loss of the life of Ms. Frago,” Gilbert said Wednesday. “I've been in a mental prison the past four years of my life. I have nightmares. If I see guns on TV where people are getting killed, I change the channel.”

The verdict came after almost 11 hours of deliberations that stretched over two days. The trial began May 17 but had a long hiatus after a juror unexpectedly had to leave town for a funeral.

During closing arguments Tuesday, Gilbert's defense team conceded the shooting did occur but said the intent wasn't to kill. Gilbert's actions were justified, they argued, because he was trying to retrieve stolen property: the $150 he paid Frago. It became theft when she refused to have sex with him or give the money back, they said.

Gilbert testified earlier Tuesday that he had found Frago's escort ad on Craigslist and believed sex was included in her $150 fee. But instead, Frago walked around his apartment and after about 20 minutes left, saying she had to give the money to her driver, he said.

That driver, the defense contended, was Frago's pimp and her partner in the theft scheme.

The Texas law that allows people to use deadly force to recover property during a nighttime theft was put in place for “law-abiding” citizens, prosecutors Matt Lovell and Jessica Schulze countered. It's not intended for someone trying to force another person into an illegal act such as prostitution, they argued.

Copyright © 2013 Hearst Communications Inc. All rights reserved. A Hearst newspaper.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q749/transfan1/Ezekiel_Gilbert_zps15c86a69.jpg
Ezekiel "Zeke" Gilbert.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q749/transfan1/Lenora_Ivie_Frago_zps9611ed36.jpg
Lenora Ivie Frago.

[LibertyHarkness]

all he had to do was punch her out not shoot her if he wanted her money back .. sorry the guy made the choice to shoot her with a gun , he knew he was going to kill her or seriously damage her .....

Sounds like a typical gun ho happy twat . Hopefully he will get shot himself or ran over in the near future.

[Prospero]

:iagree::iagree:
all he had to do was punch her out not shoot her if he wanted her money back .. sorry the guy made the choice to shoot her with a gun , he knew he was going to kill her or seriously damage her .....

Sounds like a typical gun ho happy twat . Hopefully he will get shot himself or ran over in the near future.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Well with the sort of asinine remarks you generally post it is sometimes unnecessary to comment cecil - you make a fool of yourself well enough without further action.
But since, on this, others share the sick obsession with guns I could not resist.

Asinine ....... moi ? Look in a mirror sometime . Btw, are you still mad that you didn't get one of my scholarships ?

[Jericho]

So, let me try and get this straight. You are holding someone else's property and for whatever reason you refuse to give it back.

The property owner then draws a gun and shoots you, paralysing you with a wound from which you subsequently die.

The case goes to trial and the shooter is acquitted because the law says he was within his rights to do so?

That is just fucked-up beyond words.

God damn, i love Amerika...Those cunts who clamped my car better watch out! :hide-1:

[tsadriana]

http://gawker.com/texas-says-its-ok-to-shoot-an-escort-if-she-wont-have-511636423

Let's conversate.
:grouphug
Thats sick

[Cecil Rhodes]

God damn, i love Amerika...Those cunts who clamped my car better watch out! :hide-1:

Just make sure it is night time

[Prospero]

Scholarships Cecil.... lol

[sucka4chix]

Sensational title, but let's be clear: The ruling is that it's ok to shoot someone for stealing and has nothing to do with being an escort. I understand hyperbole, sensationalism and humor but many people don't and get caught up in the words.

[trish]

And let's be clear, it's not really okay to shoot someone for not returning $150 which you paid them and then later claim they owe you. That would be...mmmm....what's it called now.....oh yeah, MURDER. Twist an arm, take it to small claims court, fling your feces but murder is WAY across the line. But wait, $150 is not worth taking to small claims court. The cost in your time alone is not worth it, right? But let's be clear, the jury Texas says $150 is worth the life of one escort.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NiXkHsSd9yk/TQeqdIcnzvI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/tUtkK22rTOI/s1600/boys-fighting-over-toy-truck-280x280.gif

"Don't make me pull out my gatt, muthafucka!"


But seriously I didn't know you were entitled to use deadly force to recover property lost in the commission of a CRIME.

If you get ripped off in a drug buy, the cops aren't going to help you one bit.

[sucka4chix]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NiXkHsSd9yk/TQeqdIcnzvI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/tUtkK22rTOI/s1600/boys-fighting-over-toy-truck-280x280.gif

"Don't make me pull out my gatt, muthafucka!"


But seriously I didn't know you were entitled to use deadly force to recover property lost in the commission of a CRIME.

If you get ripped off in a drug buy, the cops aren't going to help you one bit.
Yeah, that's the weird part. Typically you forfeit rights while conducting illegal activities.

[Cecil Rhodes]

And let's be clear, it's not really okay to shoot someone for not returning $150 which you paid them and then later claim they owe you. That would be...mmmm....what's it called now.....oh yeah, MURDER. Twist an arm, take it to small claims court, fling your feces but murder is WAY across the line. But wait, $150 is not worth taking to small claims court. The cost in your time alone is not worth it, right? But let's be clear, the jury Texas says $150 is worth the life of one escort.

No it is not . Do you even know what Murder is ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NiXkHsSd9yk/TQeqdIcnzvI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/tUtkK22rTOI/s1600/boys-fighting-over-toy-truck-280x280.gif

"Don't make me pull out my gatt, muthafucka!"


But seriously I didn't know you were entitled to use deadly force to recover property lost in the commission of a CRIME.

If you get ripped off in a drug buy, the cops aren't going to help you one bit.

So now all of a sudden we are talking about criminal activity being conducted here ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

Scholarships Cecil.... lol

Yes ,,,,

[Prospero]

It is murder. Even if the court cleared him. Anybody with decency would understand that.

And Cecil.... tell me more about your s-called scholarships?

[trish]

No it is not . Do you even know what Murder is ?
It's shooting and killing someone because they wouldn't give your 150 dollars back.

[sucka4chix]

It's shooting and killing someone because they wouldn't give your 150 dollars back.

In your opinion

[starkem]

Thats Texas for you. There is a counter to this Texas law of using deadly force to recover money "converted" during the commission of a crime (but first you must set emotions aside to understand that "alleged" solicitation of money for sex is indeed a crime - of course this is no justification for murder in a humane society...but follow the legal arguments at stake here).

Ok, the counter argument, unfortunately, is not even criminally litigious without prejudice: in all civil matters brought before the courts, the "unclean hands" argument sets precedence that a person engaged in a criminal act (in this matter, giving a person money to perform sexual acts is correspondingly illegal and criminal as the act alleged of theft) that said person can not legally recover stolen property.

The argument being: but for the commission of an illegal act committed by a person whom subsequently was subject to conversion (theft, deception, etc) there would have been no viable opportunity for a conversion to have taken place in the first instance.


Interestingly enough, in spite of all the laws for or against legal recovery rights of stolen property (criminally or civilly), I think it is a great stretch of legal interpretation; a travesty of justice; and a tragedy to the family, friends and sympathizers of Lenora Ivie Frago to arbitrarily assert a legal justification by the defense...but that is what they are paid to do.

As fortunate as the defendant was in criminal court for a not guilty verdict and the double jeopardy law that further protects him from being tried again after said verdict...the family of Frago can pursue civil matter of the defendant for wrongful death. It is, however, always disheartening -the pursuit of justice in Texas when you are not considered part of the accepted social group. Prayers and support.

[trish]

No, it's a fucking fact. Shooting and killing someone who won't give you a $150 refund is out and out, no bones about it MURDER.

[sucka4chix]

No, it's a fucking fact. Shooting and killing someone who won't give you a $150 refund is out and out, no bones about it MURDER.

Murder and homicide are 2 different things.

[robertlouis]

"Yeah, fuck her, she was just an escort, bitch got what was comin' to her.

Any bitch gets in my way she's gonna get her lights shot right out. Texas fuck yeah!"


Like I said earlier. Fucked up beyond words.

So if one of you stout defenders of what passes for justice in Texas found yourself in a similar situation you'd just take out your piece and shoot her down?

Give us a fuckin' break.

[trish]

Murder and homicide are 2 different things.Yes, yes and there are subtle distinctions between intentional, deliberate and on-purpose as well. Murder by any other name runs just as deep. You can call it what you like, call it homicide... but shooting someone on purpose and killing them for a $150 refund is murder. Unfortunately the jury in Texas didn't call it anything and a few people here seem to be calling it a heroic act that'll teach those whores a lesson in the future.

[Cecil Rhodes]

It is murder. Even if the court cleared him. Anybody with decency would understand that.

And Cecil.... tell me more about your s-called scholarships?

If you don't know about them then you don't want one .

[trish]

http://www.cecil.edu/Foundation/Foundation-Scholarships/Pages/default.aspx

[Cecil Rhodes]

Thats Texas for you. There is a counter to this Texas law of using deadly force to recover money "converted" during the commission of a crime (but first you must set emotions aside to understand that "alleged" solicitation of money for sex is indeed a crime - of course this is no justification for murder in a humane society...but follow the legal arguments at stake here).

Ok, the counter argument, unfortunately, is not even criminally litigious without prejudice: in all civil matters brought before the courts, the "unclean hands" argument sets precedence that a person engaged in a criminal act (in this matter, giving a person money to perform sexual acts is correspondingly illegal and criminal as the act alleged of theft) that said person can not legally recover stolen property.

The argument being: but for the commission of an illegal act committed by a person whom subsequently was subject to conversion (theft, deception, etc) there would have been no viable opportunity for a conversion to have taken place in the first instance.


Interestingly enough, in spite of all the laws for or against legal recovery rights of stolen property (criminally or civilly), I think it is a great stretch of legal interpretation; a travesty of justice; and a tragedy to the family, friends and sympathizers of Lenora Ivie Frago to arbitrarily assert a legal justification by the defense...but that is what they are paid to do.

As fortunate as the defendant was in criminal court for a not guilty verdict and the double jeopardy law that further protects him from being tried again after said verdict...the family of Frago can pursue civil matter of the defendant for wrongful death. It is, however, always disheartening -the pursuit of justice in Texas when you are not considered part of the accepted social group. Prayers and support.

Starkem, you are wasting your time here . Of the 3 posters that are keeping this thread going, 2 are not stupid and should understand what the law is and the merits of the case whether they personally like the law or not and the other is a turd polisher .

[Cecil Rhodes]

No, it's a fucking fact. Shooting and killing someone who won't give you a $150 refund is out and out, no bones about it MURDER.

A refund ? A refund for what ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

"Yeah, fuck her, she was just an escort, bitch got what was comin' to her.

Any bitch gets in my way she's gonna get her lights shot right out. Texas fuck yeah!"


Like I said earlier. Fucked up beyond words.

So if one of you stout defenders of what passes for justice in Texas found yourself in a similar situation you'd just take out your piece and shoot her down?

Give us a fuckin' break.

An escort ? We are discussing a thief here

[Cecil Rhodes]

http://www.cecil.edu/Foundation/Foundation-Scholarships/Pages/default.aspx

Incorrect .......

[giovanni_hotel]

A refund ? A refund for what ?

The guy paid an escort $150 and she bounced, claiming she needed the money to pay her driver.
A refund is what you might expect if you paid someone for services they didn't provide.

BTW, raising a pistol at someone and firing when the shooter's life is not in danger is ALWAYS murder. The only difference is intent.

There's no way this was a simple case of negligent or justifiable homicide.

[robertlouis]

Meanwhile, in another part of the forest....

Just heard that several people have been killed or injured in a machine-gun, that's right MACHINE-GUN, attack on a college campus in Santa Monica.

Carry on, America. Guns fuck yeah.

[giovanni_hotel]

Only criminals use guns to kill people. You're a law-abiding gun owner until you pull that trigger, says the NRA.

Now the gun-nut whackos are theorizing ALL mass shootings that occur during the Obama administration are a government orchestrated conspiracy to push a federal gun ban.

[Cecil Rhodes]

The guy paid an escort $150 and she bounced, claiming she needed the money to pay her driver.
A refund is what you might expect if you paid someone for services they didn't provide.

BTW, raising a pistol at someone and firing when the shooter's life is not in danger is ALWAYS murder. The only difference is intent.

There's no way this was a simple case of negligent or justifiable homicide.

It would be a refund if services were rendered, products were returned/exchanged or an unintentional overcharge .This was an outright theft . It is most often called THEFT BY DECEPTION .

The perpetrators of this Fraud most likely were repeat offenders and did it multiple times a night . Escort, Hooker, Whore etc keeps getting brought up on review it appears that that was the last thing the girl and her driver had on their mind .

Last, how do we know that the victim was not in danger or in fear of harm when he found out there was some strange lurking around outside of his house .

[Cecil Rhodes]

Meanwhile, in another part of the forest....

Just heard that several people have been killed or injured in a machine-gun, that's right MACHINE-GUN, attack on a college campus in Santa Monica.

Carry on, America. Guns fuck yeah.

and president creole' is in the area

[trish]

It was a fucking $150 refund for services claimed not rendered and the escort was deliberately shot in the neck for it and died. Sorry, but that's murder.

[trish]

Starkem, you are wasting your time here . Of the 3 posters that are keeping this thread going...I would think the dude who now has 26 posts here is keeping it going. Just call a murder a murder and be done with it.

[starkem]

I would think the dude who now has 26 posts here is keeping it going. Just call a murder a murder and be done with it.

Perhaps...

[Cecil Rhodes]

It was a fucking $150 refund for services claimed not rendered and the escort was deliberately shot in the neck for it and died. Sorry, but that's murder.

She was not an escort

No services were going to be rendered .

It was a theft

It was a criminal conspiracy to rob the victim

You still don't know what murder is and you refuse to look it up .

[Cecil Rhodes]

I would think the dude who now has 26 posts here is keeping it going. Just call a murder a murder and be done with it.

I have no problem calling a murder a murder . All I have done is explained why the case went the way it did .

But if I call a non murder a murder then I will get stuck with a polished turd .

[trish]

She was not an escort

No services were going to be rendered .

It was a theft

It was a criminal conspiracy to rob the victim

You still don't know what murder is and you refuse to look it up .

So you say, but we'll never know. The victim was murdered for a $150 worth of services allegedly not rendered.

Prove the shooter wasn't just trying to steal his $150 back. Can't, the only witness was murdered.

The victim advertised as an escort. A working hypothesis is she was paid for her services as an escort. The shooter claims he paid her an agreed sum of $150 but was unhappy it didn't buy him any sex. The shooter then claims she refused to give back the $150 (any sane person would say we was asking for a refund, but use whatever terminology suits your needs). Maybe she intended to stiff him all along. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter, because the shooter admits that upon her refusal, he deliberately shot her in the neck. She died. He's a murderer. End of story.

[starkem]

Or perhaps the prosecution was toO zealos in its deliberation. I believe manslaughter is an affirmative criminal pursuit even in Texas and holds that premeditation nor intent need apply. However, in Texas, prosecutorial actions derive from the "Texas/cowboy justice - hang'em high by noon" mentality rather than criminal jurisprudence as to what you can legally prove as opposed to what you want or you "feel" a defendant deserves.

We are all right and disturbed by the incident and the ensuing verdict to some degree. It is a tragedy of justice forsaken for the rights of upholding the law -no matter if it leaves a bitter taste in the eyes of humanity. There is no logical conclusion -only a legal loophole for which the jury was charged to enforce. It is sad but true....

[sucka4chix]

You folks are too emotional and hypocritical. The fact is that there was a law in Texas that was applicable to this incident. Since this happened in Texas, all other points are moot. Doesn't matter what you think about Texas-that's where everyone CHOSE to engage in WHATEVER went down! People defending her are defending her BECAUSE she was an escort---this is no different than people attacking her for being an escort. It's just the other side of the same coin. I don't think any of us were there so making points about what happened is just speculation, not fact. Either or all parties involved could be the scum of the earth. Something happened. Someone's dead. Person involved was acquitted. Those are the facts. Stuff that you want to be a fact is irrelevant. And btw, the prosecutor stated that the statute was for law-abiding citizens, not someone FORCING someone to commit prostitution. If that was part of his legal strategy, then the jury of "stupid Texans" did the right thing. They are not supposed to render a verdict based on emotion, but on the cases presented by counsel. If counsel is a dumbass, then guess what???

[timxxx]

This was not theft,it was commercial dispute.

His actions were as reasonable as shooting someone(not Mexican) $150 to clean your carpet because he didn't and wouldn't give you money back.

At the very worst she tried to scam him,you threaten to call the cops or TAKE your money back,you don't shoot someone who is no physical threat to you or even threaten them with a gun.

The tough texan can now boast he shot an unarmed 5ft hooker in the neck.

[trish]

The shooter's own story is that he deliberately shot an unarmed young women for (what was up to the shooting) a verbal dispute overc$150. According to the coroner she died. The jury is encouraged to consider all testimony. By the shooter's own account he's a murderer.

[Cecil Rhodes]

So you say, but we'll never know. The victim was murdered for a $150 worth of services allegedly not rendered.

Prove the shooter wasn't just trying to steal his $150 back. Can't, the only witness was murdered.

The victim advertised as an escort. A working hypothesis is she was paid for her services as an escort. The shooter claims he paid her an agreed sum of $150 but was unhappy it didn't buy him any sex. The shooter then claims she refused to give back the $150 (any sane person would say we was asking for a refund, but use whatever terminology suits your needs). Maybe she intended to stiff him all along. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter, because the shooter admits that upon her refusal, he deliberately shot her in the neck. She died. He's a murderer. End of story.

I'm done with it . Say what you will . A word of advice is try not to do it in court because if you do, you will be locked up for contempt within 30 seconds .

[bluesoul]

So, let me try and get this straight. You are holding someone else's property and for whatever reason you refuse to give it back.

The property owner then draws a gun and shoots you, paralysing you with a wound from which you subsequently die.

The case goes to trial and the shooter is acquitted because the law says he was within his rights to do so?

That is just fucked-up beyond words.

what you've just described sounds like stealing which is usually a pretty common way to get yourself shot.

[robertlouis]

what you've just described sounds like stealing which is usually a pretty common way to get yourself shot.

Oh, so that's all right then. SMDH. :pissed:

[bluesoul]

all he had to do was punch her out not shoot her if he wanted her money back .. sorry the guy made the choice to shoot her with a gun , he knew he was going to kill her or seriously damage her .....

Sounds like a typical gun ho happy twat . Hopefully he will get shot himself or ran over in the near future.

hey, maybe he's he kind of guy that wouldn't hit a woman :hide-1:

[tsdvdman]

People are saying this is fucked up and expressing sympathy for her not only because she was an escort..but a TS.
But If this was the typical "a BLACK guy" robbed a TS escort and got shot..everyone would be applauding...lol

[robertlouis]

I can't be the only person here who thinks that anyone who thinks it's ok to pull a gun in the middle of an argument in which there's been no threat of violence from the other party is a pretty fucked up way of behaving.

If you disagree with that I'd suggest that any girls who escort and who read this should keep well clear.

[fred41]

Let's change the OP a bit. Forget, for a moment, whether or not the jurors did their jobs properly - none of us sat at the trial...and I don't have a transcript in front of me.
I don't know if she had an extensive record for being a con artist, in which case we might have seen a case of jury nullification. I don't see any record mentioned....so I have to assume that wasn't the case. So forget all that.

Also, for a moment, forget the law.

My only question is this:Just based on the facts sited in some of the news articles -"Do you believe in your heart that the defendant should have received some type of punishment for killing this woman?" (assuming she died of the wound inflicted by the gunshot...apparently he fired at the car three times).

My answer is YES.

I don't have a problem of a person, unarmed or not, getting shot in the act of a home invasion...or even in some other types of robbery. But that isn't the case here. It seems like it was a simple con job...and on top of that, it wasn't even over a lot of money. Once she got to the car and they started driving away...he should have just shook his head and learned from the experience.
I realize some people are probably thinking - she got what she deserved. This is what happens when you try to con the wrong person. Fine. Problem is - he got caught (how could he not)...so now he should be punished. This wasn't the same as killing the man who murdered or molested your child. It was a simple con job.

So again - "Do you believe in your heart that the defendant should have received some type of punishment for killing this woman?"

[bluesoul]

I can't be the only person here who thinks that anyone who thinks it's ok to pull a gun in the middle of an argument in which there's been no threat of violence from the other party is a pretty fucked up way of behaving.

If you disagree with that I'd suggest that any girls who escort and who read this should keep well clear.

why not just warn them not to steal instead? because i don't think the guy in the op was from this forum.

[bluesoul]

YPeople defending her are defending her BECAUSE she was an escort---this is no different than people attacking her for being an escort. It's just the other side of the same coin.

excellent point.

[giovanni_hotel]

Texas: It's Fine To Kill An Escort For Not Having Sex With You - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shssb5I5vYc)

[wiltthestilt]

I thought this jury's decision was insane. But the Texas law is even more insane.

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


Wow. You may shoot someone in the head for making off with your lawn Santa in Texas? You learn someone new every day. I actually buy the defense's argument that this guy was the victim of theft. I have no problem with him being treated the same as an individual who had hired a night-time plumber who was fleeing with his $150 dollars. It is just amazing that the threshold to use deadly force in Texas is so low. All the jury had to find was that this man had a reasonable belief that he could not protect or recover the property by means other than deadly force (not that the loss of the property justified killing). I think the escort angle really detracts from the more important lesson of this story.

[Ben]

Sickest state in the union.

Weren't they going to secede?

:) :) :)

[fred41]

People are saying this is fucked up and expressing sympathy for her not only because she was an escort..but a TS.
But If this was the typical "a BLACK guy" robbed a TS escort and got shot..everyone would be applauding...lol

Where did it ever say she was a TS? I didn't read that anywhere.


...and all the recent post about TS escorts getting robbed on this site indicated acts of violence...often involving use of a weapon. Where is there any similarity ?!

[Cecil Rhodes]

http://www.keepgoing.org/issue32_weeds/images/sights-sounds-2.jpg