The Valley Girls

[dafame]

I have a question for the ladies and the guys. I have had a few black ts friends throughout my days. Many of them were friends that stemmed from a previous relationship with a tgirl many years ago. I've been able to see how they act in various scenarios and there's always been something that puzzled me. They all have very feminine voices but when they would answer the phone for a prospective client they would go from their regular speaking voice (which was that of a black woman) to sounding like a valley girl.

What made me think of this was I just got done watching a video of the lovely Chanel Couture. It was my first time hearing her voice and the way she sounded was a prime example of a black chick attempting to imitate the cadence, tonality, general dialect of (typically speaking) white dialect.

Ladies if you know this to be true of yourself can you please chime in and explain?

White clients, are you more inclined to date a black chick that sounds this way?

[amberskyi]

people say i sound white all the time but im pretty sure that only ignorant people expect me to sound like some ghetto stereotype of what a black woman is.sorry that im educated,have a decent vocabulary and a grasp on proper grammer.
and yes i thumbed this down lol

[mmolotov75]

I think this question is coming from an honest place so I will extract the snark. These black women are engaging in what is known as "code switching". We all do it to a greater or lesser extent. You don't talk to your boss while reporting at your quarterly all-hands the same way you talk to your drinking buddy during that pay day night. These women address clients in a way that will be received with comfort, to put their customers at ease. This might involve a valley girl approximation instead of the usual colloquialisms she might normally use to communicate. By the way, not every black woman comes for the same background, so there are black women of middle and upper class background out there that have to code switch in the reverse of what you might expect.

[dafame]

people say i sound white all the time but im pretty sure that only ignorant people expect me to sound like some ghetto stereotype of what a black woman is.sorry that im educated,have a decent vocabulary and a grasp on proper grammer.
and yes i thumbed this down lol

This was just dripping with ignorance so I'll just point it out but refuse to address it. I've seen this same sentiment from you in various other posts and it needs to stop. You are so quick to attack with even the slightest hint that someone is in some way insulting your self perception. Be happy with what and who you are and stop coming across like the "angry black transsexual woman". Dropping that will be a much better look for you.


I think this question is coming from an honest place so I will extract the snark. These black women are engaging in what is known as "code switching". We all do it to a greater or lesser extent. You don't talk to your boss while reporting at your quarterly all-hands the same way you talk to your drinking buddy during that pay day night. These women address clients in a way that will be received with comfort, to put their customers at ease. This might involve a valley girl approximation instead of the usual colloquialisms she might normally use to communicate. By the way, not every black woman comes for the same background, so there are black women of middle and upper class background out there that have to code switch in the reverse of what you might expect.

I understand where you're coming from. As a black man being born and raised in Southern California I would already be considered "proper" in many other places in the country, but I'm even proper from California standards. To the point to where as a young man I had to almost teach myself how to not be so proper in certain scenarios and around certain crowds. Makes sense. I understand it the other way as well that as black people we've conditioned ourselves to speak a certain way when in the presence of whites, particularly in a work environment. It's just in some of the girls cases it seems like a bit over the top but I suppose the same principles would apply here as well.

[amberskyi]

Lol I'm not angry,i just speak my mind without any filter.I'm happy with who i am which is why i strive to not be anything other than me.my whole life i got called "oreo cookie" or "siddity"because of the way i talk and my interest.sure i could try to fit into the popular perception of what black is but that would be untrue to myself.
Ignorant is thinking that a race of people have to speak a certain way.check yourself

[MacShreach]

I think this question is coming from an honest place so I will extract the snark. These black women are engaging in what is known as "code switching". We all do it to a greater or lesser extent. You don't talk to your boss while reporting at your quarterly all-hands the same way you talk to your drinking buddy during that pay day night. These women address clients in a way that will be received with comfort, to put their customers at ease. This might involve a valley girl approximation instead of the usual colloquialisms she might normally use to communicate. By the way, not every black woman comes for the same background, so there are black women of middle and upper class background out there that have to code switch in the reverse of what you might expect.
That was succinct and accurate.

Actually I am always horrified when people (usually English ones) think I'm English just because I'm educated and doing exactly that...were I to speak to them in the Mearns Doric I grew up with (and still speak when I go home), they would not understand a word. Not one word.

[Dino Velvet]

Never understood why anyone would try to pick up the accent from the wrong side of the hill. Helloooooo Tarzana.

[Willie Escalade]

Chanel actually talks like that.

[dafame]

Never understood why anyone would try to pick up the accent from the wrong side of the hill. Helloooooo Tarzana.

That's hilarious...LOL


Chanel actually talks like that.

Okay I'll accept that coming from you Willie. It just came across as a bit unauthentic, not unlike things that I've heard from girls I know personally that don't speak that way in personal settings. But I suppose she perhaps actually grew up "in the Valley" or Tarzana or some shit..lol

[Dino Velvet]

This is a popular accent in Sherman Oaks. Aaaaaaalllllwaysssssss...

Hit it Mofaz.

Madtv - Mofaz the Depressed Persian Tow Truck Driver (Michael McDonald).. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBJtp7ieRqs)

[runround04]

...........

[StlyeMeCunty]

LOL @ this thread! My friends always call me a white girl. I am not trying to sound white, but I simply speak the way I do because of the surroundings I grew up in.

[giovanni_hotel]

I would never presume whether someone's speech pattern is authentic or 'Black' enough.
Seriously, why do Black folk always put this REALity test on other Black folks all the time??

If we aren't talking in dialect and ebonics 24/7, someone is gonna question if you're representing your melanin correctly.

Did the OP ever think these girls didn't want to sound ignorant and uneducated on the phone to potential clients??

Being Black, I know I prefer to deal with a Black TS who knows how to string a subject/verb/predicate together and speak in proper tenses.
But that's just my comfort level from my own background.

[amberskyi]

I would never presume whether someone's speech pattern is authentic or 'Black' enough.
Seriously, why do Black folk always put this REALity test on other Black folks all the time??

If we aren't talking in dialect and ebonics 24/7, someone is gonna question if you're representing your melanin correctly.

Did the OP ever think these girls didn't want to sound ignorant and uneducated on the phone to potential clients??

Being Black, I know I prefer to deal with a Black TS who knows how to string a subject/verb/predicate together and speak in proper tenses.
But that's just my comfort level from my own background.

And let the church say amen!!!

[bluesoul]

Did the OP ever think these girls didn't want to sound ignorant and uneducated on the phone to potential clients??

but a valley girl accent is considered stupid isn't it? i mean, it's the voice of a girl who is typically considered materialistic and aloft. would seem like a strange accent to take up if you don't want to sound ignorant and uneducated.

[mmolotov75]

but a valley girl accent is considered stupid isn't it? i mean, it's the voice of a girl who is typically considered materialistic and aloft. would seem like a strange accent to take up if you don't want to sound ignorant and uneducated.

It's exactly as you say, materialistic and aloof. From a privileged background, but without the expectation of intellectual depth that would require a more extensive vocabulary.

[dafame]

It's exactly as you say, materialistic and aloof. From a privileged background, but without the expectation of intellectual depth that would require a more extensive vocabulary.


but a valley girl accent is considered stupid isn't it? i mean, it's the voice of a girl who is typically considered materialistic and aloft. would seem like a strange accent to take up if you don't want to sound ignorant and uneducated.

Yeah this is quite strange. I thought they would have realized by the time I made my second post which stated that I myself am black and have experienced the same thing by speaking really proper.
I'm puzzled by them thinking that by "valley girl" I'm attacking speaking with proper english. I'm speaking about a particular speech style and pattern rather that saying someone should sound ghetto to be authentic (wtf???).. A speech pattern that has always been portrayed as "aloof, dingy, dim witted etc...". I'm not sure when this became the model of the way "black people sound when they're educated" as these posters seem to suggest.
I'm lost, but I think this is an example of as black people we are overly sensitive to things at times. Particularly Amberskyi in this situation. I've already explained that I wasn't attacking black people that speak proper english BECAUSE I'M ONE OF THEM. So explain to me why are YOU continuing this when someone posts something about the OP that obviously didn't take the time to read through the entire thread and doesn't know all that I've written as you do?

[mmolotov75]

It's all about context.

[Merkurie]

"Ebonics" or so called Black speech is just as much of a put on "learned" speech pattern as "Valley girl" or "Jersey Shore" speech is.

[amberskyi]

It's all about context.

Exactly!

[amberskyi]

Yeah this is quite strange. I thought they would have realized by the time I made my second post which stated that I myself am black and have experienced the same thing by speaking really proper.
I'm puzzled by them thinking that by "valley girl" I'm attacking speaking with proper english. I'm speaking about a particular speech style and pattern rather that saying someone should sound ghetto to be authentic (wtf???).. A speech pattern that has always been portrayed as "aloof, dingy, dim witted etc...". I'm not sure when this became the model of the way "black people sound when they're educated" as these posters seem to suggest.
I'm lost, but I think this is an example of as black people we are overly sensitive to things at times. Particularly Amberskyi in this situation. I've already explained that I wasn't attacking black people that speak proper english BECAUSE I'M ONE OF THEM. So explain to me why are YOU continuing this when someone posts something about the OP that obviously didn't take the time to read through the entire thread and doesn't know all that I've written as you do?

Obviously i wasn't the only one that was confused about your meaning.
I've been accused of sounding like a valley girl (more specifically like a belong in the 90s film "clueless") by my black peers.
I took it in the context in which it applied to me, which is all one really can do...go off of personal experience.

[dafame]

"Ebonics" or so called Black speech is just as much of a put on "learned" speech pattern as "Valley girl" or "Jersey Shore" speech is.

First let me explain that I'm not talking about the Chanel chick specifically because she very well could be from a well to do family from Valencia or something for all I know.
But this seems to be the go-to style for the girls and I'm just curious as to why? If you're an "uneducated ghetto person" that destroys the english language, talking like the girls from Clueless isn't going to make you any more educated or give you a higher vernacular.
Why not just be yourself whatever that is? It has nothing to do with the type of words you use or you level of vocabulary, it has to do with certain style of speech that is, if nothing else annoying to hear it over and over again from every girl. They couldn't all be from the valley could they? Hell I know bitched from Inglewood that talk like that so where did they "learn" it?

[dafame]

This was just dripping with ignorance so I'll just point it out but refuse to address it. I've seen this same sentiment from you in various other posts and it needs to stop. You are so quick to attack with even the slightest hint that someone is in some way insulting your self perception. Be happy with what and who you are and stop coming across like the "angry black transsexual woman". Dropping that will be a much better look for you.



I understand where you're coming from. As a black man being born and raised in Southern California I would already be considered "proper" in many other places in the country, but I'm even proper from California standards. To the point to where as a young man I had to almost teach myself how to not be so proper in certain scenarios and around certain crowds. Makes sense. I understand it the other way as well that as black people we've conditioned ourselves to speak a certain way when in the presence of whites, particularly in a work environment. It's just in some of the girls cases it seems like a bit over the top but I suppose the same principles would apply here as well.


Obviously i wasn't the only one that was confused about your meaning.
I've been accused of sounding like a valley girl (more specifically like a belong in the 90s film "clueless") by my black peers.
I took it in the context in which it applied to me, which is all one really can do...go off of personal experience.

So a single day goes by and you forget all about this? We have got to stop being so sensitive to every little thing. This is why when we have a legitimate gripe no one wants to hear it. If you would have just taken the time to think about my initial statement (that goes for the other people that you pointed out as well) you would have understood that it was meant for you or someone like you "an educated black person that understands how to speak proper english and doesn't feel as though they SHOULD sound like an ignorant, uneducated, ghetto person", because the post had absolutely nothing to do someone sounded educated because there's nowhere in that style of dialect that says "she's got doctorates degree written all over her". That's a big misconception in your head if that's what you believe "Valley Girl" equates to.
Okay so there's no such thing as a fake person anymore. No one's worried about "keeping it real" anymore (I just thought about it and realized that I'm the only person still saying that.. Damn). You know what, fuck it. Starting tomorrow I'm sounding like the guy from the "Most Interesting Man in the World" commercials. End of story.

[amberskyi]

Oh hun but everyone loves me *bates eyes*

[TsChanelCouture]

@dafame Hi, this is Chanel Couture! I have just now stumbled across your posting regarding your curiosity about the way I speak. First off, I am not from southern California (speciafically the valley) nor have a claimed to be. I am a southern girl, from North Carolina and very proud of where I have traveled from. I am college educated and I know how to conduct myself well in the way that I speak. It is simply my natural feminine voice which I have developed while transitioning. I've always been very soft spoken, however I always speak clearly with good diction. I do still have a splash of my southern accent in my voice, but it has faded slightly since I've been in Cali. I do not try to speak "white" as you would say. Honestly, I don't think anyone should label or associate someone's dialect or tone of voice with a specific race. You speak how you speak.. I don't try to sound like someone else or a group of people who I think are superior, because I don't think any group of people are superior to myself.

Addressing the comment you made about "white clients" .. I don't change my voice for them or any others, I'm just me.. They either like it or they don't, but I've never had one to tell me that I sound like a valley girl or that they think I sound "white over the phone. They always tell me how professional, sweet, and well mannered I sound, nothing less. I don't find the valley talk much appealing myself, but hey its just an opinion.