Star Trek Into Darkness

[BellaBellucci]

OK, I'm done staying quiet about this (it's been an entire 24 hours :lol:): Star Trek Into Darkness has wonderful characters. The way they play off each other is typically excellent Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman fare. One of my favorite things about Trek has always been the extent to which the bridge crews are always close like family. In fact, that's why I watch Trek movies when I'm alone over the holidays. So, on that level this was a terrific movie.

The sets and effects were great. The 3D was terrific. And you gotta love Benedict Cumberbatch as you-know-who. In my opinion, a movie of this nature is most successful when you can actually relate to the antagonist somehow.

BUT THAT SCRIPT! UGH! It's a miserable combination of Space Seed, Trek II, and Trek 6 with far too much disruption simply for the sake of reminding the audience that this is a new universe. Guess what, JJ: we get it. And the remake of a classic scene (with a twist that JJ no doubt convinced himself was witty) that really had no business being conceived, let alone shot, was just too much to bear. And yes, they include the classic line, but it's not what you think. It's far, far, FAR worse. Oh, and don't get me started on the unnecessary shoehorning of one particular Vulcan who shall go unnamed, but whose identity should be pretty obvious to everyone. Shatner must be ripping his hair out.

Being lenient because I'm a Trekkie and this movie is openly marketed as a summer popcorn movie, not to mention the pure adrenaline rush I derived from it, I give it 8/10 overall (as have most of the critics for mostly the same reasons ), but I will warn you... the final sequence will have you screaming, 'Jaaaaaaaaaaaaay Jaaaaaaaaaaaay!'

~BB~

[bluesoul]

it's by jj abrams. it can't be good.

i really doubt the validity of anyone that says they're a star trek fan and enjoys these "new" films. abrams himself said they aren't made for star trek fans.

[maxpower]

Shatner must be ripping his hair out.


Too late.

[Prospero]

The franchise really should have stopped after the original few series were done I think.

[Chuck]

OK, I'm done staying quiet about this (it's been an entire 24 hours :lol:): Star Trek Into Darkness has wonderful characters. The way they play off each other is typically excellent Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman fare. One of my favorite things about Trek has always been the extent to which the bridge crews are always close like family. In fact, that's why I watch Trek movies when I'm alone over the holidays. So, on that level this was a terrific movie.

The sets and effects were great. The 3D was terrific. And you gotta love Benedict Cumberbatch as you-know-who. In my opinion, a movie of this nature is most successful when you can actually relate to the antagonist somehow.

BUT THAT SCRIPT! UGH! It's a miserable combination of Space Seed, Trek II, and Trek 6 with far too much disruption simply for the sake of reminding the audience that this is a new universe. Guess what, JJ: we get it. And the remake of a classic scene (with a twist that JJ no doubt convinced himself was witty) that really had no business being conceived, let alone shot, was just too much to bear. And yes, they include the classic line, but it's not what you think. It's far, far, FAR worse. Oh, and don't get me started on the unnecessary shoehorning of one particular Vulcan who shall go unnamed, but whose identity should be pretty obvious to everyone. Shatner must be ripping his hair out.

Being lenient because I'm a Trekkie and this movie is openly marketed as a summer popcorn movie, not to mention the pure adrenaline rush I derived from it, I give it 8/10 overall (as have most of the critics for mostly the same reasons ), but I will warn you... the final sequence will have you screaming, 'Jaaaaaaaaaaaaay Jaaaaaaaaaaaay!'

~BB~

Totally agree. Just saw it tonight. I wouldn't say that I'm disappointed -- though just a little -- but I really did not like the liberal use of lines and sub-plots lifted from so many other Star Trek episodes / movies. It got to the point that I felt Abrams was making fun of us devoted lifelong fans. I was ready for an awesome movie and would gladly have settled for very good. As it stands the movie was just OK. Also, while the villain had many great villainous traits he still could not touch the character and actor on which it is originally based. And while I thought it was interesting in the first re-boot I'm really not feeling the emotional Spock and his relationship with Uhura. Despite the huge budget and top notch effects I feel like the special effects from Sci-Fi Channel's Battlestar Galactica were more convincing. And what's with the bromance? Kirk rolling his eyes at Spock because he won't reciprocate his declaration that he will miss him.

[Cecil Rhodes]

OMG am I the person that knew the villain is Kh........ nevermind . I told a girl in a red trek dress who it was and whom Alice Eve's character was . She didn't believe me . When he told Kirk who he really was the whole theater was in shock or amazement . I looked behind me at the red dress girl and her group to see her reaction . She gave me that astonished OMG you were right look .

The big thing I noticed about the movie was the Foley ( sound effects ) . They sounded a lot like the ones used in the Star Wars films .

Zoe needs to go back to Berlitz to brush up on her Kling ( Klingon Language ) .

Lastly, Trekkie is a Derogatory Term . Trekker is the proper Term

[BellaBellucci]

I felt Abrams was making fun of us devoted lifelong fans.

I went with my roommate and she said the exact same thing. It really kinda felt like that, didn't it? I mean, I like JJ, but I'm starting to get the idea that he has little respect for us.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

OMG am I the person that knew the villain is Kh........ nevermind . I told a girl in a red trek dress who it was and whom Alice Eve's character was . She didn't believe me . When he told Kirk who he really was the whole theater was in shock or amazement . I looked behind me at the red dress girl and her group to see her reaction . She gave me that astonished OMG you were right look .

Those are JJ's Trek fans. Nevermind them. They've only seen the last movie before this one because it was 'kinda like Star Wars.' :lol:


Lastly, Trekkie is a Derogatory Term . Trekker is the proper Term

Says who? I never liked the word 'Trekker.' That sounds like we personally explore strange new worlds, seek out...

~BB~

[Cecil Rhodes]

The record setting weekend is june 14/16 when Man Of Steel is released .

[Cecil Rhodes]

Those are JJ's Trek fans. Nevermind them. They've only seen the last movie before this one because it was 'kinda like Star Wars.' :lol:



Says who? I never liked the word 'Trekker.' That sounds like we personally explore strange new worlds, seek out...

~BB~

Trekkies say it .

[BellaBellucci]

The record setting weekend is june 14/16 when Man Of Steel is released .

It looks that way. I would have put my money on Iron Man, but now I'm not so sure. I think every movie I've seen this year has had a Man of Steel trailer on it, Iron Man included.


Trekkies say it .

I think I've heard one or two say that, but I don't think it's a 'thing.' :lol:

~BB~

[Cecil Rhodes]

Just curious ..... If you fuck twins that have tails are you having anal sex ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

It looks that way. I would have put my money on Iron Man, but now I'm not so sure. I think every movie I've seen this year has had a Man of Steel trailer on it, Iron Man included.



I think I've heard one or two say that, but I don't think it's a 'thing.' :lol:

~BB~

until a month ago there were only 2 man of steel trailers .

btw, does anybody know whom the villain in MOS is ? It is pretty obvious .

[alpha2117]

I enjoyed it but I understand how people wouldn't. To me I feel they would have been better going totally off canon and have totally new storylines. I thought it was a good show but there were too many beats where had you paid attention you could guess where they were going based on what had gone years before.

[BellaBellucci]

until a month ago there were only 2 man of steel trailers .

btw, does anybody know whom the villain in MOS is ? It is pretty obvious .

It never really been a secret. :lol:

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

I think it will be pretty interesting to see how Star Trek Fans relate to this movie. I just saw it last night, and although I wouldn't consider myself a "Trekkie", I do like the series. I agree, Bella. After it was over, I walked out kind of feeling a little bit ripped off. I've seen WoK only a couple of times but even at that, I was like, "Haven't they already made this movie?" After all the build up, I was kind of expecting something totally new and interesting.

[youngblood61]

Is it worth going to see?:)

[Cecil Rhodes]

Yes . Just remember it is only a movie that you are going to see to escape reality for about 2 1/2 hours .

Also I need to say that 2/3 of the packed theater were Trek Fans, not those that only know the 2009 film . There was a positive response but the ovation when the film ended .

[youngblood61]

Thanks CR.:)

[GroobyKrissy]

Agreed... definitely worth seeing... for the special effects if nothing else.

[youngblood61]

Agreed... definitely worth seeing... for the special effects if nothing else.I was waiting for your review Krissy.:)

[GroobyKrissy]

I was waiting for your review Krissy.:)

LoL... Well, now I feel like I have a reputation to uphold.

Honestly though, I think Bella summed things up rather well and I think reaction to the movie will be mixed. Those who didn't watch or don't know about WoK will probably love it. I would guess that most serious movie reviewers though will attack it from the standpoint of a remade version of that, with little imagination. It is almost like they started off the movie but then lost sight of how to end it and someone just said, "Well, let's do this...".

I think there were some nods to Trekkies though. You could hardly revisit the villain without the famous scream somewhere in there... it was just kind of "forced" instead of smooth and seamless with the storyline. I was discussing with some friends afterwards and we all agreed that if they were going to arc storylines, they should have gone the Borg route instead... that will be a blockbuster movie when / if they do that for sure.

[BellaBellucci]

LoL... Well, now I feel like I have a reputation to uphold.

Honestly though, I think Bella summed things up rather well and I think reaction to the movie will be mixed. Those who didn't watch or don't know about WoK will probably love it. I would guess that most serious movie reviewers though will attack it from the standpoint of a remade version of that, with little imagination. It is almost like they started off the movie but then lost sight of how to end it and someone just said, "Well, let's do this...".

I think there were some nods to Trekkies though. You could hardly revisit the villain without the famous scream somewhere in there... it was just kind of "forced" instead of smooth and seamless with the storyline. I was discussing with some friends afterwards and we all agreed that if they were going to arc storylines, they should have gone the Borg route instead... that will be a blockbuster movie when / if they do that for sure.

The Borg appeared before TOS (in Enterprise), but only as the 'mystery cybernetic race.' They never identified themselves, and considering that Q from TNG had to fluig the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant to get their attention again, the Borg clearly had no plans to revist Earth. How would this development be explained in the plot? I'd honestly hate to see them do a Borg-related plot line for that reason. This movie essentially bumped up the events of WoK by about 20 years or so; doing a Borg storyline bumps those events up about two generations. I think the next movie should concentrate on the Romulans taking advantage of the destruction of the Klingon fleet in the first movie, the destruction of Vulcan, and a Starfleet with an obvious identity crisis.

~BB~

PS: It's spelled Qo'nos, JJ. Qo'nos.

[bluesoul]

The Borg appeared before TOS (in Enterprise), but only as the 'mystery cybernetic race.' They never identified themselves, and considering that Q from TNG had to fluig the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant to get their attention again, the Borg clearly had no plans to revist Earth. How would this development be explained in the plot?

simple: the borg send 1 drone through a temporal vortex so it can go back in time to kill kirk's mother before he's born, and the future picard sends data through the same temporal vortex to protect kirk's mom and ends up boinking her thus impregnating her with kirk leading up to the events of the star trek 1 and simultaneously remaking terminator and thus bundling the 2 franchises into 1

we can call it 'star trek terminator first contact 3d the next generation' or sttfc3dtng

[Cecil Rhodes]

enough with the Trekkie term . It is Trekker . If you are going complain about cannon, non=cannon. jj abrams etc you have to use the appropriate term for a Trek Fan(atict) .

[SP27]

I hate jar jar abrams.

I detested the first movie. lazy script writing, stupid sight gags, poor characterizations and abridge that looked so much like a fucking trendy LA hair salon I was half expecting to see Bronson Pinchot walking around asking anybody if they wanted an espresso.

i wont waste my money on this schlock.

jar jar has ruined trek and will most likely will run star wars. the turds at Disney did themselves a real disservice by hiring the hack.

[Chuck]

I'm a black Trekkie. Not an African American Trekker. People are allowed to self identify any way they choose.

[Cecil Rhodes]

I'm a black Trekkie. Not an African American Trekker. People are allowed to self identify any way they choose.

Klingon eh ?

[sabre666]

Ahem.. How do I put this? Hmm........ oh yeah, I know. IT SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Horrible! It looked like a poor man's rip-off of a Micheal Bay Transformer movie with a little Die-Hard thrown in.
Are there no original ideas in Hollywood anymore??????

[Chuck]

Klingon eh ?
Lol yes according to JJ's version.

[serial138]

You people realize that if they made these movies for just Star Trek fans they wouldn't sell for shit right? I've loved the shows for years, but you can't take the TV show to the movie theater. No one wants to watch 2 1/2 hours of Picard problem solving a political crisis or making contact with a new lifeform. They want to see ship battles and action sequences.

If you want to bring back the heart and soul of what the shows were about (exploration, discovery, non-violent problem solving), get another TV show up and running. As for the movies, give me the popcorn and the explosions with hot chicks in short dresses. That's what the good Star Trek movies always did. II, III, and VI where the best ones by far (of the original cast, I'm leaving TNG out for now). I hated the save the whales and oh look we met god ones. Although I did think VGer was a pretty awesome idea in the original, even if it was an obvious knock-off of 2001.

[Cecil Rhodes]

You people realize that if they made these movies for just Star Trek fans they wouldn't sell for shit right? I've loved the shows for years, but you can't take the TV show to the movie theater. No one wants to watch 2 1/2 hours of Picard problem solving a political crisis or making contact with a new lifeform. They want to see ship battles and action sequences.

If you want to bring back the heart and soul of what the shows were about (exploration, discovery, non-violent problem solving), get another TV show up and running. As for the movies, give me the popcorn and the explosions with hot chicks in short dresses. That's what the good Star Trek movies always did. II, III, and VI where the best ones by far (of the original cast, I'm leaving TNG out for now). I hated the save the whales and oh look we met god ones. Although I did think VGer was a pretty awesome idea in the original, even if it was an obvious knock-off of 2001.

I liked Star Trek IV . It was humorous going back in time . The only thing good about Star Trek V was how hot the Romulan Ambassodore to Nimbus III was .

[serial138]

I might have to rewatch V. I don't remember any hot Romulan ambassador.

All I remember was Spock's annoying brother and all of a sudden Scotty became a clueless moron. Drove me nuts.

[Stavros]

Here's a great never-heard-of-before idea for a movie that will take Stark Trek to a whole new warpfront: let's give the Villain an English Accent...

[Ecstatic]

OK, I'm done staying quiet about this (it's been an entire 24 hours :lol:): Star Trek Into Darkness has wonderful characters. The way they play off each other is typically excellent Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman fare. One of my favorite things about Trek has always been the extent to which the bridge crews are always close like family. In fact, that's why I watch Trek movies when I'm alone over the holidays. So, on that level this was a terrific movie.

The sets and effects were great. The 3D was terrific. And you gotta love Benedict Cumberbatch as you-know-who. In my opinion, a movie of this nature is most successful when you can actually relate to the antagonist somehow.

BUT THAT SCRIPT! UGH! It's a miserable combination of Space Seed, Trek II, and Trek 6 with far too much disruption simply for the sake of reminding the audience that this is a new universe. Guess what, JJ: we get it. And the remake of a classic scene (with a twist that JJ no doubt convinced himself was witty) that really had no business being conceived, let alone shot, was just too much to bear. And yes, they include the classic line, but it's not what you think. It's far, far, FAR worse. Oh, and don't get me started on the unnecessary shoehorning of one particular Vulcan who shall go unnamed, but whose identity should be pretty obvious to everyone. Shatner must be ripping his hair out.

Being lenient because I'm a Trekkie and this movie is openly marketed as a summer popcorn movie, not to mention the pure adrenaline rush I derived from it, I give it 8/10 overall (as have most of the critics for mostly the same reasons ), but I will warn you... the final sequence will have you screaming, 'Jaaaaaaaaaaaaay Jaaaaaaaaaaaay!'

~BB~

My reaction to a "t". To nutshell it: endlessly derivative whilst nonetheless enthralling.

[Ecstatic]

I think it will be pretty interesting to see how Star Trek Fans relate to this movie. I just saw it last night, and although I wouldn't consider myself a "Trekkie", I do like the series. I agree, Bella. After it was over, I walked out kind of feeling a little bit ripped off. I've seen WoK only a couple of times but even at that, I was like, "Haven't they already made this movie?" After all the build up, I was kind of expecting something totally new and interesting.

Odd, that's the feeling I have every time I see a MoS trailer: c'mon, we know the back story, we know the villain, let's move on to new territory already.

[volkov2006]

enough with the Trekkie term . It is Trekker . If you are going complain about cannon, non=cannon. jj abrams etc you have to use the appropriate term for a Trek Fan(atict) .

It is 'Trekkie' in a behind the scenes clip not sure which one some one said that at one of the early conventions, the first one Gene Roddenberry when to. Gene used the word 'Trekkie' and someone in the crowd yelled out the it was 'Trekker' not 'Trekkie', to which Gene responded "I created it I am pretty sure what the right term is".

And as a very hardcore Star Trek fan I have to say that I absolutely hated the 2009 movie, and am only going to this one because I am being dragged there by a friend. I love all of the other Star Trek series, movies, and games, but this new 'THING' I can not call it Trek. I just have a problem with the flow of the whole thing. I can`t stand the fact that there are so many plot holes that you can fly a Galaxy Class Starship through. I loved the old Trek, there was a good story, character development (specifically Deep Space Nine), philosophical depth, and continuity (the stories tried their best to respect each other).

[GroobyKrissy]

It is 'Trekkie' in a behind the scenes clip not sure which one some one said that at one of the early conventions, the first one Gene Roddenberry when to. Gene used the word 'Trekkie' and someone in the crowd yelled out the it was 'Trekker' not 'Trekkie', to which Gene responded "I created it I am pretty sure what the right term is".

And as a very hardcore Star Trek fan I have to say that I absolutely hated the 2009 movie, and am only going to this one because I am being dragged there by a friend. I love all of the other Star Trek series, movies, and games, but this new 'THING' I can not call it Trek. I just have a problem with the flow of the whole thing. I can`t stand the fact that there are so many plot holes that you can fly a Galaxy Class Starship through. I loved the old Trek, there was a good story, character development (specifically Deep Space Nine), philosophical depth, and continuity (the stories tried their best to respect each other).

So, I am interested just as an Fan of the series and not a "Trekker" or "Trekkie" or whatever the correct term is (#teamstarwars), what are some of the most glaring "plot holes" that the new movies have in them?

[volkov2006]

So, I am interested just as an Fan of the series and not a "Trekker" or "Trekkie" or whatever the correct term is (#teamstarwars), what are some of the most glaring "plot holes" that the new movies have in them?

!WARNING I AM A HARDCORE STAR TREK NERD YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Okay let me start:

1:The set up for the first movie is that a star near Romulus was going to go nova. The Romulans ask for either Vulcan/Federation support, even if there was a treaty after Nemesis they are very arrogant and more than likely would have never asked for help even if the knew they were doomed. Then the Vulcans come up with this 'Red Matter' which just seems really out of nowhere to be used to create a black hole to suck up the nova, which seems really weird because the Romulans could have done that themselves, their ships are powered by 'Artificial Singularities' which is just a fancy term for Artificial BLACK HOLE.

2: When we see the USS Kelvin in the first scene it is supposed to be before the timeline splits, so should the details of the ship and crew reflect that, and then the timeline changes after the death of Kirks father.

3: The uniforms: the colors are all wrong even in Enterprise we had the colors set up(Red, Gold, Blue) why were they all of a sudden different.

4: the antennas on all of the consoles seems weird, in Enterprise again they had wireless consoles(and if they were not wireless at least the cords went into the superstructure).

5: Then the insignia on the uniforms was the Delta Shield which was not adopted until after Kirks historic 5-year mission(Yes I am that much of a hard core fan), in The Original Series every ship and station had their own insignia.

6: During the fight we see the Kelvin firing the normal beam-type phasers, and a blueish-white pulse-type phaser which was not developed until the 24th Century for the Defiant Class.

7: The design of the ship is that the Nacelle in on the ventral(bottom) of the saucer and the engineering section is on the dorsal(top) of the saucer, when the captain goes to the shuttlebay he has to go up from the bridge yet he rides the turbolift down into the engineering section.

8: When they evacuated the Kelvin why the hell would someone repel down, why would there be a big open space like that on a ship(space is limited on a starship).

9: Later in the movie 'Pike' says that Kirks father saved 800 people, so a Kelvin Class starship has a crew of 800, and is supposed to be a similar size to a Miranda Class starship that has a crew of 80, the TOS Enterprise only had a crew of 400, the first ship to have a crew size close to 800 was the Galaxy with a crew of 1016.

10: In the time that they are the evacuate using shuttles, they are close to the Klingon Empire not very close but close enough as a point of reference, how many shuttles does that ship have, and those shuttles only have impulse nacelles, and NO WARP DRIVE, it would take at least 3 weeks for Starfleet to send a rescue.

11: Later in the movie the Enterprise, is constructed on the surface of the Earth no starship was ever built on the surface of the Earth, but it was constructed using sensor data from the Kelvin's battle with the Narada so since the Narada is a Romulan mining ship augmented with Borg tech, Starfleet now has Borg tech scans why is the Enterprise not more advanced and able to withstand more than one shot from the Narada.

12: Now the Romulans, why do they not have their brow ridge they are from the future after Nemesis so they should have it. Why if they look like Vulcans why not use subterfuge and pretend to be Vulcans, that is what Romulans do.

13: After the Kelvin collides with the Narada it is disabled, why does the stars gravity well not pull it in to it?

That was mostly just the beginning does anyone want me to continue my "ranting"?

[BellaBellucci]

!WARNING I AM A HARDCORE STAR TREK NERD YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Okay let me start:

1:The set up for the first movie is that a star near Romulus was going to go nova. The Romulans ask for either Vulcan/Federation support, even if there was a treaty after Nemesis they are very arrogant and more than likely would have never asked for help even if the knew they were doomed. Then the Vulcans come up with this 'Red Matter' which just seems really out of nowhere to be used to create a black hole to suck up the nova, which seems really weird because the Romulans could have done that themselves, their ships are powered by 'Artificial Singularities' which is just a fancy term for Artificial BLACK HOLE.

2: When we see the USS Kelvin in the first scene it is supposed to be before the timeline splits, so should the details of the ship and crew reflect that, and then the timeline changes after the death of Kirks father.

3: The uniforms: the colors are all wrong even in Enterprise we had the colors set up(Red, Gold, Blue) why were they all of a sudden different.

4: the antennas on all of the consoles seems weird, in Enterprise again they had wireless consoles(and if they were not wireless at least the cords went into the superstructure).

5: Then the insignia on the uniforms was the Delta Shield which was not adopted until after Kirks historic 5-year mission(Yes I am that much of a hard core fan), in The Original Series every ship and station had their own insignia.

6: During the fight we see the Kelvin firing the normal beam-type phasers, and a blueish-white pulse-type phaser which was not developed until the 24th Century for the Defiant Class.

7: The design of the ship is that the Nacelle in on the ventral(bottom) of the saucer and the engineering section is on the dorsal(top) of the saucer, when the captain goes to the shuttlebay he has to go up from the bridge yet he rides the turbolift down into the engineering section.

8: When they evacuated the Kelvin why the hell would someone repel down, why would there be a big open space like that on a ship(space is limited on a starship).

9: Later in the movie 'Pike' says that Kirks father saved 800 people, so a Kelvin Class starship has a crew of 800, and is supposed to be a similar size to a Miranda Class starship that has a crew of 80, the TOS Enterprise only had a crew of 400, the first ship to have a crew size close to 800 was the Galaxy with a crew of 1016.

10: In the time that they are the evacuate using shuttles, they are close to the Klingon Empire not very close but close enough as a point of reference, how many shuttles does that ship have, and those shuttles only have impulse nacelles, and NO WARP DRIVE, it would take at least 3 weeks for Starfleet to send a rescue.

11: Later in the movie the Enterprise, is constructed on the surface of the Earth no starship was ever built on the surface of the Earth, but it was constructed using sensor data from the Kelvin's battle with the Narada so since the Narada is a Romulan mining ship augmented with Borg tech, Starfleet now has Borg tech scans why is the Enterprise not more advanced and able to withstand more than one shot from the Narada.

12: Now the Romulans, why do they not have their brow ridge they are from the future after Nemesis so they should have it. Why if they look like Vulcans why not use subterfuge and pretend to be Vulcans, that is what Romulans do.

13: After the Kelvin collides with the Narada it is disabled, why does the stars gravity well not pull it in to it?

That was mostly just the beginning does anyone want me to continue my "ranting"?

Great. Now how about your analysis of the movie we're actually discussing? :rolleyes:

~BB~

[volkov2006]

Great. Now how about your analysis of the movie we're actually discussing? :rolleyes:

~BB~

I have not seen it yet and still have not made up my mind if I want to see it. I was answering GroobyKrissy on what a hardcore Star Trek fan feels for these movies so I am starting with the movie that I have seen. I apologize if I went to far off topic.

[BellaBellucci]

I have not seen it yet and still have not made up my mind if I want to see it. I was answering GroobyKrissy on what a hardcore Star Trek fan feels for these movies so I am starting with the movie that I have seen. I apologize if I went to far off topic.

It's all good. I'm just messing with ya. :lol:

~BB~

[volkov2006]

It's all good. I'm just messing with ya. :lol:

~BB~

Okay sorry, I don't like to make people mad if I can help it, although I usually do when I point out facts which can't be helped.

But if and when I see this "Star Trek" movie I will give my analysis of it as best I can.

[GroobyKrissy]

!WARNING I AM A HARDCORE STAR TREK NERD YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Okay let me start: [edit: krissy - shortened quote for space]

I find stuff like this fascinating... and good for providing conversational fodder if I ever happen to be at the table with Star Trek Fans. So yes, continue.

Did you research these all yourself or is there some sort of forum / website that you aggregated this from? You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about but I'm always a bit wary when discussing matters that I have limited knowledge of.

I think some of your points are artistic license. Star Trek is, after all, Sci-Fi(ction / Fantasy). I think if you start pulling physics into a critique of the series, given our limited understanding of the universe, you're going to end up with some heartache. Anyway, if no one else minds, I am totally interested in reading more so I can check them.

Thanks!

[GroobyKrissy]

Has Data's origin ever been really explained in detail besides the episodes in [I think] Next Generation? Always thought he was a fascinating character too.

[volkov2006]

I find stuff like this fascinating... and good for providing conversational fodder if I ever happen to be at the table with Star Trek Fans. So yes, continue.

Did you research these all yourself or is there some sort of forum / website that you aggregated this from? You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about but I'm always a bit wary when discussing matters that I have limited knowledge of.

I think some of your points are artistic license. Star Trek is, after all, Sci-Fi(ction / Fantasy). I think if you start pulling physics into a critique of the series, given our limited understanding of the universe, you're going to end up with some heartache. Anyway, if no one else minds, I am totally interested in reading more so I can check them.

Thanks!

Well as I said I am a very hardcore Star Trek Fan and I found those all by myself(which because of this no one wants to watch Star Trek with me for fear of me going off on a scientific rant).

And while Star Trek is Sci-Fi it is rooted in science fact. As an example in Star Trek there is a particle that occurs naturally in space called a neutrino that can travel faster than the speed of light, 3 years ago scientists said that going faster than the speed of light is not possible in anyway shape or form. 2 years ago scientists discovered a particle that can travel faster than the speed of light and they named that particle neutrino. Also during the writing and filming of the TV series and the movies they would get a hold of NASA and scientists to check to see what they have is even possible, in fact on one episode of the TNG called "Descent" Stephen Hawking made an appearance. On the same note the science behind how the engines work makes perfect logical sense when all of the recent scientific discoveries that have been made.

Other things that they were ahead of science was Anti-matter, Dark matter, and many spacial anomalies. So while Star Trek is Sci-Fi alot of it is Sci-Fact.

For Data I am not sure I have not read any books that make any changes to his origin story. Which speaking of him in the comic book leading up to the 2009 movie it is said that he is the Captain of the Enterprise-E, which makes no sense because if you go with the theory that B-4 becomes Data after Nemesis, which in books that I have read never happen Data is dead(sad, which Worf becomes his 1st officer). Data would be Picards 1st officer unless Picard died during the mission Data would not become captain of the Enterprise. If he would become captain he would be transferred to a new ship just like in today's world that a 1st officer can not become captain of the same vessel for the fact that the officers and crew underneath him/her may of would not respect them.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well as I said I am a very hardcore Star Trek Fan and I found those all by myself(which because of this no one wants to watch Star Trek with me for fear of me going off on a scientific rant).

And while Star Trek is Sci-Fi it is rooted in science fact. As an example in Star Trek there is a particle that occurs naturally in space called a neutrino that can travel faster than the speed of light, 3 years ago scientists said that going faster than the speed of light is not possible in anyway shape or form. 2 years ago scientists discovered a particle that can travel faster than the speed of light and they named that particle neutrino. Also during the writing and filming of the TV series and the movies they would get a hold of NASA and scientists to check to see what they have is even possible, in fact on one episode of the TNG called "Descent" Stephen Hawking made an appearance. On the same note the science behind how the engines work makes perfect logical sense when all of the recent scientific discoveries that have been made.

Other things that they were ahead of science was Anti-matter, Dark matter, and many spacial anomalies. So while Star Trek is Sci-Fi alot of it is Sci-Fact.

LoL... I would love to sit down and watch Star Trek with someone like yourself. Like I said, I find discrepancies in films fascinating. I have a friend who is a LOTR fanatic and sat through basically three days with her going through the movies vs the books. It was a-maz-balls.

I was aware that Star Trek consulted with NASA and other scientists (I'll use that term to blanket astrophysicists, theoretical physicists, etc. with apologies to those fields) to create the natural laws which govern the universe, which I think is great. Being somewhat science minded myself, the science of it all appeals more to me than anything.

Anyway... thanks for sharing and feel free to pvt me with more :)

[BellaBellucci]

Has Data's origin ever been really explained in detail besides the episodes in [I think] Next Generation? Always thought he was a fascinating character too.

Which? There were a few. Data's backstory has been explored to death, as have the social and moral implications of his existence.

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

Which? There were a few. Data's backstory has been explored to death, as have the social and moral implications of his existence.

~BB~

Think I caught some episodes on Spike or something where he went and found his brother or something, who turned out to be a "bad" model or used to almost destroy the Enterprise... something like that. I had it on in the background while i was working.

I haven't read any of the Star Trek comics or books so I am just talking TV / movies here. Any specific episodes of Data lore? I am too lazy to Google it.

[BellaBellucci]

Any specific episodes of Data lore?

Yes. Datalore. :lol:

Season one. Episode Thirteen.

~BB~

[volkov2006]

Which? There were a few. Data's backstory has been explored to death, as have the social and moral implications of his existence.

~BB~

The first of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids was B-4 which was in Nemesis which we know very little about, the second was Lore who was the evil one who worked with the Crystaline entity to try and destroy the Enterprise, and the 3rd and last android was Data. They were all created by and in the image of Noonien Soong, so they are all different and have different personalities.

As for continuing my analysis of the new movies I would love to I don't get to talk enough of Star Trek, mostly because most of my friends like Star Wars more(They also have know idea that I am also in the middle of my transition and would never support it of me anyway), and my wife and I talk about it all the time both of us being Trekkies(we even had a Star Trek themed wedding, if anyone wants to see pictures please let me know).

I will continue my analysis tomorrow as of right now it is time to got to sleep, right after finishing this DS9 episode. I look forward to more interesting conversations about this. Thank you!

[GroobyKrissy]

Yes. Datalore. :lol:

Season one. Episode Thirteen.

~BB~

Well that was easy. Thanks. I love how Data Lore in Google brings up Data inspired porn. All I can say is... WOW.

[BellaBellucci]

The first of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids was B-4 which was in Nemesis which we know very little about, the second was Lore who was the evil one who worked with the Crystaline entity to try and destroy the Enterprise, and the 3rd and last android was Data. They were all created by and in the image of Noonien Soong, so they are all different and have different personalities.

As for continuing my analysis of the new movies I would love to I don't get to talk enough of Star Trek, mostly because most of my friends like Star Wars more(They also have know idea that I am also in the middle of my transition and would never support it of me anyway), and my wife and I talk about it all the time both of us being Trekkies(we even had a Star Trek themed wedding, if anyone wants to see pictures please let me know).

I will continue my analysis tomorrow as of right now it is time to got to sleep, right after finishing this DS9 episode. I look forward to more interesting conversations about this. Thank you!

Uhh, yeah. Thanks. I knew that already. :rolleyes:


Well that was easy. Thanks. I love how Data Lore in Google brings up Data inspired porn. All I can say is... WOW.

Now that I DIDN'T know. Awesome!

... I think. :lol:

~BB~

[volkov2006]

Uhh, yeah. Thanks. I knew that already. :rolleyes:

~BB~

Sorry I was doing that mostly for GroobyKrissy since we are getting into a good conversation about Star Trek.

And to not make myself into a liar I will now go to sleep if anyone wants to talk more let me know, or if they want to just talk in private please let me know.

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Bella, after learning you LOVE Star Trek.....you have now become my ideal woman!:Bowdown::jerkoff

[BellaBellucci]

Bella, after learning you LOVE Star Trek.....you have now become my ideal woman!:Bowdown::jerkoff

Thank you! I just assumed everyone already knew that I'm a geek. :lol:

~BB~

[Cecil Rhodes]

It is 'Trekkie' in a behind the scenes clip not sure which one some one said that at one of the early conventions, the first one Gene Roddenberry when to. Gene used the word 'Trekkie' and someone in the crowd yelled out the it was 'Trekker' not 'Trekkie', to which Gene responded "I created it I am pretty sure what the right term is".

And as a very hardcore Star Trek fan I have to say that I absolutely hated the 2009 movie, and am only going to this one because I am being dragged there by a friend. I love all of the other Star Trek series, movies, and games, but this new 'THING' I can not call it Trek. I just have a problem with the flow of the whole thing. I can`t stand the fact that there are so many plot holes that you can fly a Galaxy Class Starship through. I loved the old Trek, there was a good story, character development (specifically Deep Space Nine), philosophical depth, and continuity (the stories tried their best to respect each other).



Look up Trekkie and Trekker on Wikipedia to see what is what . Btw, are there any Niners here ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

A?m I the only one that caught a certain thing in the movie that no one has mentioned ? Heck I laughed when I saw/heard it and at least 1/2 the theater heard me .

How did the Away Team conceal their true identity when they traveled to Qo'anoS ?

[Cecil Rhodes]

How did I misspell Qo'noS

[volkov2006]

Look up Trekkie and Trekker on Wikipedia to see what is what . Btw, are there any Niners here ?

Wikipedia is not the best source foe anything and I was going off of what Gene Roddenberry said, you know the person who created Star Trek, he said it is Trekkie not Trekker. This Trekker thing started up again because the writers of these new movies said that it was Trekker not Trekkie, I for one am going with the creator not the butchers.

And I am a DS9 fan in fact it is my favorite series, so many good episodes, good character development, and such good storytelling.

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Wikipedia is not the best source foe anything and I was going off of what Gene Roddenberry said, you know the person who created Star Trek, he said it is Trekkie not Trekker. This Trekker thing started up again because the writers of these new movies said that it was Trekker not Trekkie, I for one am going with the creator not the butchers.

And I am a DS9 fan in fact it is my favorite series, so many good episodes, good character development, and such good storytelling.
Although as a whole I would agree with you, trying to watch the first season was a tedious journey. Yea I know they were developing the characters but let's be honest there were some fairly stupid/insufferable episodes. Once the main characters were developed I'd have to say alot of the series (especially The Dominion Wars storyline) were some of the best Trek stories. The only real gripe I had was Jake Sisko......the black version of Wesley Crusher. I don't know why the creators felt the need to add an "adolescent" element to the series but what's done is done.

[volkov2006]

Although as a whole I would agree with you, trying to watch the first season was a tedious journey. Yea I know they were developing the characters but let's be honest there were some fairly stupid/insufferable episodes. Once the main characters were developed I'd have to say alot of the series (especially The Dominion Wars storyline) were some of the best Trek stories.

Yes the first season was difficult but they were just trying to get started, in the second season they actually started to make the show all about themselves and not just be a spin off of TNG. I think that Voyager was the same until about season 3 or so.

And the Dominion story arc was awesome, the stories were so great especially the ones that showed that the Federation losing the war, after 2 series of the Federation being an almost infallible entity, was just great. Also the way they tied DS9 into the movies(Generations and First Contact) was very well done, even if it was just a quick mention. Also the idea that Sisko was the Emissary of the Prophets was a very good look at religion and how it changes people who have it, don't have it, and those who are thrust into the middle of it.

About Jake I am not sure why they wanted it but I think it was nice to actually see a relationship between father and son, and how they were at odds at times. Also Sisko was named as one of the top 100 TV dads at the time. Although I seem to like Jake more than Wesley, not sure why.

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Yes the first season was difficult but they were just trying to get started, in the second season they actually started to make the show all about themselves and not just be a spin off of TNG. I think that Voyager was the same until about season 3 or so.

And the Dominion story arc was awesome, the stories were so great especially the ones that showed that the Federation losing the war, after 2 series of the Federation being an almost infallible entity, was just great. Also the way they tied DS9 into the movies(Generations and First Contact) was very well done, even if it was just a quick mention. Also the idea that Sisko was the Emissary of the Prophets was a very good look at religion and how it changes people who have it, don't have it, and those who are thrust into the middle of it.

About Jake I am not sure why they wanted it but I think it was nice to actually see a relationship between father and son, and how they were at odds at times. Also Sisko was named as one of the top 100 TV dads at the time. Although I seem to like Jake more than Wesley, not sure why.
Yea I'll give you that Jake was more tolerable than Wesley but I think that's because TNG painted him as a boy genius and he came across as someone trying to overcompensate, a "goody two shoes", and someone always looking to please.

[volkov2006]

Yea I'll give you that Jake was more tolerable than Wesley but I think that's because TNG painted him as a boy genius and he came across as someone trying to overcompensate, a "goody two shoes", and someone always looking to please.

I agree with that and don't get me wrong I did not really like Jake that much but he at least had a person around his age in Nog that made him tolerable unlike Wesley who had no one of his age to interact with I think that is what made Jake the better character. Just like Naomi from Voyager, when she was young she was likeable because she was a little kid, and who doesn't like that, but when she got older the started to lose that interesting vibe and when on to become another Wesley.

[BellaBellucci]

Jake Sisko = FAIL. 'Nuff said. Even when people defend him, the best compliment he receives is, 'at least he wasn't Wesley' (I got shit for this on Star Trek's Facebook page.' That said, it should be interesting to note that Roddenberry claimed that Wesley represented his own perspective on the series, sort of like his proxy.

~BB~

[Cecil Rhodes]

Wikipedia is not the best source foe anything and I was going off of what Gene Roddenberry said, you know the person who created Star Trek, he said it is Trekkie not Trekker. This Trekker thing started up again because the writers of these new movies said that it was Trekker not Trekkie, I for one am going with the creator not the butchers.

And I am a DS9 fan in fact it is my favorite series, so many good episodes, good character development, and such good storytelling.

All I said was look it up on Wikipedia . I know what Wikipedia is as do most people . There is a section on Trekkie vs. Trekker . This thread has definitely turned into a Trekker vs Trekkie schism . I am laughing about it myself .

As far as Trekkie goes, Roddenberry didn't invent the term . Some writer for a sci=fi mag or tv guide or something did when he saw 15 or 20 homemade Trek costumed weirdos at a sci-fi convention while the TOS was still in production . Trekker dates back to possibly 1970, but it was definitely in common usage by 1972 .

As far as Roddenberry and the Trekkie / Trekker incident goes ....... It is a just a rumor . No one has ever been able to place it by date or even year or location . Of those that claim to have direct knowledge of it or have claimed to be have been present, each person gives conflicting info. I have been told by cast members that it either never happened or it is just rumor .

Just remember this about Roddenberry . He and George Lucas do have 1 thing in common . They are/were both Big Assholes . Gene thought Trekkies and Trekkers were a bunch scary weirdos .

Now I am off to go thru my 20 plus cases of Star Trek / Star Wars / Sci-Fi collectables to find my unopened mib 12" Pike and 12" Gorn Action Figures and let them go at it .

[Cecil Rhodes]

A?m I the only one that caught a certain thing in the movie that no one has mentioned ? Heck I laughed when I saw/heard it and at least 1/2 the theater heard me .

How did the Away Team conceal their true identity when they traveled to Qo'anoS ?

HELLO ...... Anybody ......... Am I the only one that knows this ?

[BBaggins06]

OK, I'm done staying quiet about this (it's been an entire 24 hours :lol:): Star Trek Into Darkness has wonderful characters. The way they play off each other is typically excellent Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman fare. One of my favorite things about Trek has always been the extent to which the bridge crews are always close like family. In fact, that's why I watch Trek movies when I'm alone over the holidays. So, on that level this was a terrific movie.

The sets and effects were great. The 3D was terrific. And you gotta love Benedict Cumberbatch as you-know-who. In my opinion, a movie of this nature is most successful when you can actually relate to the antagonist somehow.

BUT THAT SCRIPT! UGH! It's a miserable combination of Space Seed, Trek II, and Trek 6 with far too much disruption simply for the sake of reminding the audience that this is a new universe. Guess what, JJ: we get it. And the remake of a classic scene (with a twist that JJ no doubt convinced himself was witty) that really had no business being conceived, let alone shot, was just too much to bear. And yes, they include the classic line, but it's not what you think. It's far, far, FAR worse. Oh, and don't get me started on the unnecessary shoehorning of one particular Vulcan who shall go unnamed, but whose identity should be pretty obvious to everyone. Shatner must be ripping his hair out.

Being lenient because I'm a Trekkie and this movie is openly marketed as a summer popcorn movie, not to mention the pure adrenaline rush I derived from it, I give it 8/10 overall (as have most of the critics for mostly the same reasons ), but I will warn you... the final sequence will have you screaming, 'Jaaaaaaaaaaaaay Jaaaaaaaaaaaay!'

~BB~

LOL I refused to watch the reboot and there is no chance I'll watch this waste of celluloid. Anything remotely resembling coherency or intelligence in an Abrams movie is purely coincidental. This is the man who puked up Armageddon, Cloverfield & Felicity into the world. I'd rather watch Kelly Shore dance in the old HA chat room ...

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Jake Sisko = FAIL. 'Nuff said. Even when people defend him, the best compliment he receives is, 'at least he wasn't Wesley' (I got shit for this on Star Trek's Facebook page.' That said, it should be interesting to note that Roddenberry claimed that Wesley represented his own perspective on the series, sort of like his proxy.

~BB~

Yeah, don't get me wrong Bella...Jake was an EPIC FAIL but me and Volkov2006 were just making the observation that between Jake and Wesley, Jake was the lesser of two evils albeit a very disinteresting character nonetheless.:soapbox

[BellaBellucci]

LOL I refused to watch the reboot and there is no chance I'll watch this waste of celluloid. Anything remotely resembling coherency or intelligence in an Abrams movie is purely coincidental. This is the man who puked up Armageddon, Cloverfield & Felicity into the world. I'd rather watch Kelly Shore dance in the old HA chat room ...

Armageddon was from Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer. JJ was just one screen writer. And JJ did also give us Lost and Fringe, so he's not the WORST producer/director in show business.


Yeah, don't get me wrong Bella...Jake was an EPIC FAIL but me and Volkov2006 were just making the observation that between Jake and Wesley, Jake was the lesser of two evils albeit a very disinteresting character nonetheless.:soapbox

I think The Traveler might disagree with you. ;)

~BB~

PS: Leeeeave Armageddon Aloooooone! <3

[Corran]

LOL I refused to watch the reboot and there is no chance I'll watch this waste of celluloid. Anything remotely resembling coherency or intelligence in an Abrams movie is purely coincidental. This is the man who puked up Armageddon, Cloverfield & Felicity into the world. I'd rather watch Kelly Shore dance in the old HA chat room ...

Cloverfield was cool.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Get Steamed you Geeks

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/936194_10151596619352300_76866779_n.jpg

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Armageddon was from Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer. JJ was just one screen writer. And JJ did also give us Lost and Fringe, so he's not the WORST producer/director in show business.



I think The Traveler might disagree with you. ;)

~BB~

PS: Leeeeave Armageddon Aloooooone! <3

OMG!!!!!! I totally forgot about that horrid character/episode. Bella, you truly are a Sci-Fi>:geek::Bowdown:

[volkov2006]

Great. Now how about your analysis of the movie we're actually discussing? :rolleyes:

~BB~

Okay I just saw the movie last night and here is my hardcore Star Trek fan analysis.

In my opinion it was horrible! Extremely horrible! Reasons:

WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!

1: They are trying to stay true to the Prime Directive by not letting the indigenous population see them. A few problems with that that "Spock" did not mention. If the indigenous population is on the verge of extinction by a natural disaster and is not technologically advanced enough to stop it, they are not allowed and can not interfere.

2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?

3: The Enterprise under water, 1: the nacelles would be torn off from the nacelle struts( this ship was designed for space travel not going into a gas giant or an ocean). 2: The salt water would get into the Bussard collectors and cause problems to the overall operation of the ship.

4: Starfleets uniforms are way to militaristic, they are explorers not soldiers, they remind me of WWII German Army uniforms.

5: "Spock" and "Uhura"s relationship would not be allowed on ship it interferes with the way they preform their duties.

6: "Khan" was located in deep space during Kirks historic 5-year mission and they just stumbled on to the SS Botany Bay. How did the Admiral find him so easily?

7: Since when does the Enterprise have missile tubes, it is an exploration vessel not a combat vessel.

8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.

9: Personal communicators have a range that reaches from Klingon space to Earth? Last I looked they were used for surface to ship and internal ship communications only. They are not cell phones.

10: The Ketha province on Qo'noS was uninhabited? Last I looked that is where the House of Martok lives. And the Klingons that were there were not of the House of Martok the brow ridges are completely wrong.

11: Praxis is apparently in contact with the Qo'noS how are those two planetoids still in one piece, the gravametric shear would tear them both apart.

12: Why is there still disease on Earth? After first contact poverty, DISEASE, and war are all gone.

13: "Khan" was way to emotional and brutal. He was also messy when he attached the emergency council why use a ship that have pulse like phasers, why not a bomb of a projectile that could take the whole room out at once? He is supposed to be a genius.

14: "Spock" melds with "Pike" without consent, yes Spock does that with McKoy in TWOK to save his contra. What this "Spock" did is considered in Vulcan philosophy a form of rape.

15: Section 31 was way to messy in my opinion.

16: A secret shipyard in orbit of a Jupiter moon? Apparently Jupiter Station could not see it?

17: I hate the Enterprise warp core design is laughable at best and makes absolutely no sense if you understand the way warp drive functions.

18: The Enterprise brig apparently does not use force fields any more? Why are they using what I can tell is transparent aluminum, and if it is how does that hole thingy move trough it?

19: How did the Enterprise make it though the Neutral Zone with out the Klingons not see them coming, and they were adrift in Klingon space for how long with out being found.

20: "Pike" was give command of the Enterprise again, he was a cripple he would not have been chosen for the new captain. Captains are like astronauts they have to be in good physical condition.

21: Starfleet/Federation does not have nor believes in the death penalty.

22: Karol Marcus is a scientist and not a part of Starfleet and does not like Starfleet.

23: The design of the Klingon bat'leth looks hideous, the original one was much better.

24: "Spock" yelling "Khan" seems way to forced and in completely out of character.

25: Starfleet does not allow augments such as "Khan" to serve in Starfleet. When Kirk is saved using "Khan"s blood even though it does not change his personality or physical ability, but non the less makes him partly augment and would be striped of command until at least he went through extensive testing and even then may be discharged from Starfleet.

26: Starfleet ships using pulse phasers instead of the beam variant? Starfleet does not develop pulse phasers until the 24th century for the Defiant class.

27: Weapons are now superficial attachments on starships now rather than internal systems?

28: "Khan" says that he was put into stasis 300 years ago? That would put him in the late 1800s around 1896. We did not have the ability to make genetically engineered humans at that point let alone cryo stasis devices. In TWOK he says that he was sent into space in the year 1996, which to me makes much more sense than 1896 just saying.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Did you say Hard Core ?

http://images.plus613.net/images/3/a/7/f/www_plus613_net_TrekShemales1.jpg

[trish]

Just got back from it. It's a fun ride, not too deep (though I'd say it was mainly about what people are willing to do or not do and what is ethical for people to do or not do for their perceived families. There was also some tie in to current day questions of whether or not terrorists deserve trials). Way too much emphasis on Kirk, way too little on Benedict Cumberbatch (be still my heart). If you are at all drawn to science fiction, you'd probably find it worth seeing; I am and I did.

[notdrunk]

Okay I just saw the movie last night and here is my hardcore Star Trek fan analysis.

In my opinion it was horrible! Extremely horrible! Reasons:

WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!


1.) Agreed
2.) Agreed that it doesn't make sense
3.) Agreed that it is impossible. It was supposed to be "cool" scenes.
4.) Remember, Starfleet changed since the USS Kelvin was blown up by a powerful ship. Starfleet has become more militaristic.
5.) Something similar happened on Enterprise with Tucker and T'Pol. So, there is some leeway on this matter.
6.) Section 31 did deep space scans of unknown space to find the ship. Starfleet's technology jumped ahead because the USS Kelvin performed scans of the Narada.
7.) USS Enterprise was probably refitted after the Narada battle. Again, Starfleet has become slighty more militaristic.
8.) Remember Star Trek? Spock told Scott how to do transwrap transportation and Scott used it to beam onto a ship with Kirk. Apparently, Scott told Starfleet about the technology; however, Starfleet made it top secret.
11.) Praxis was fan service. And, it was a moon of Qo'nos.
13.) Khan went crazy like he did in the Wrath of Khan. He was cracking skulls with his hands.
15.) Section 31 has always been messy. In Deep Space Nine, they tried to examinate a species through biological warfare.
21.) Admiral Marcus, the bad guy, wanted him dead because he would of exposed his secrets if captured.
22.) The timeline was changed; therefore, there is a chance that attitudes changed too.
24.) Fan service and to show that this is an alternate universe.
25.) Some time passed since he got a blood transfusion before he started the 5 year mission. Maybe he was cleared during that time? Additionally, Bashir was allowed to serve in Starfleet.
26.) Which ships used pulse cannons?
28.) McCoy isn't a math professor!

[Cecil Rhodes]

STARFLEET is militaristic . It always has been . It is not only Research & Explorative, it is a PEACEKEEPING service . It may be more defensive than offensive, but in the end there is little difference when the shit hits the fan . STARFLEET is a Naval Service . It has FLEET in it's name . It's ranks are Naval . Not only do Navies have Military Duties, they have Exploration, Research & Scientific ones aswell . Even the smallest Navies on Earth have a Oceanographic Survey or Research Vessel of some type .

When the United States Military finally gets into Space it will be the Navy, not the Air Force that is charge . As far as Land/Planetary Forces are concerned, they will again fall under the Navy by way of the Marines . Space/Planetary Fighters, Bombers, Small Craft etc will fail under Naval Aviation with a Marine Section aswell . Any Space Force that is created afterward will be nothing more than an offshoot branch/service off the Navy .

STARFLEET has a Marine Corps . Kirk mentioned them before the Away Team went down to Kronos . STARFLEET International, the Largest Star Trek Fan Club ( Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate ) has a separate branch called the STARFLEET Marine Corps. / SFMC . They have been around for 3 decades . They use Civil Air Patrol Ribbon Medals for their Fruit Salad . CAP doesn't like it to much but they can't do anything about it . SFMC members make no qualms about being a Military Group .

There were some fans that I know that were considering making a custom colored TNG/DS9 uniform . They were going to be STARFLEET Research & Development . That was just their cover . They were actually going to STARFLEET Intelligence . You don't think that the TOS 5 year mission was for Kirk to fuck every female alien he came into contact with ? The data they collected had to go somewhere . Remember the Genesis Planet ? In ST3 McCoy was asking questions about it and as a result was making certain people very concerned . Who were those people ? It is not hard to figure out .

As far Missile Tubes go, who saw TUSC/ST6 ?

Bat'lith .... I d on't remember seeing one and I was looking . Then again I have a costume made one myself . Mine is awesome and it gets a lot of attention ....... lmao

[Sulka_bewitched_me]

Hmm..... I wonder if there's a correlation between being a Star Trek fan/Sci-Fi geek and having a sexual attraction to TG/TS/Ladyboys?:wink:

[notdrunk]

STARFLEET is militaristic . It always has been . It is not only Research & Explorative, it is a PEACEKEEPING service . It may be more defensive than offensive, but in the end there is little difference when the shit hits the fan . STARFLEET is a Naval Service . It has FLEET in it's name . It's ranks are Naval . Not only do Navies have Military Duties, they have Exploration, Research & Scientific ones aswell . Even the smallest Navies on Earth have a Oceanographic Survey or Research Vessel of some type .

When the United States Military finally gets into Space it will be the Navy, not the Air Force that is charge . As far as Land/Planetary Forces are concerned, they will again fall under the Navy by way of the Marines . Space/Planetary Fighters, Bombers, Small Craft etc will fail under Naval Aviation with a Marine Section aswell . Any Space Force that is created afterward will be nothing more than an offshoot branch/service off the Navy .

STARFLEET has a Marine Corps . Kirk mentioned them before the Away Team went down to Kronos . STARFLEET International, the Largest Star Trek Fan Club ( Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate ) has a separate branch called the STARFLEET Marine Corps. / SFMC . They have been around for 3 decades . They use Civil Air Patrol Ribbon Medals for their Fruit Salad . CAP doesn't like it to much but they can't do anything about it . SFMC members make no qualms about being a Military Group .

There were some fans that I know that were considering making a custom colored TNG/DS9 uniform . They were going to be STARFLEET Research & Development . That was just their cover . They were actually going to STARFLEET Intelligence . You don't think that the TOS 5 year mission was for Kirk to fuck every female alien he came into contact with ? The data they collected had to go somewhere . Remember the Genesis Planet ? In ST3 McCoy was asking questions about it and as a result was making certain people very concerned . Who were those people ? It is not hard to figure out .

As far Missile Tubes go, who saw TUSC/ST6 ?

Bat'lith .... I d on't remember seeing one and I was looking . Then again I have a costume made one myself . Mine is awesome and it gets a lot of attention ....... lmao

Yes, Starfleet is the Space Navy; however, there has been a balance when it came to their ships. Starfleet rarely built a ship that was meant for war before a war has began. For example, the Akira class and Saber class first appeared during the Dominion War. A Federation Dreadnought Class ship was only mentioned in books (non-canon) and alternate realities were the Federation was at war. Starfleet has been reactionary more so than proactive when it comes to war. In this alternative reality, Starfleet has been proactive in ways to defend itself. Starfleet has been focused on the military aspect of their mission more so their exploration aspect. In the original timeline, Kirk wasn't the first Captain to start and complete a five year mission. There were at least two Captains that finished a five year mission before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Hmm..... I wonder if there's a correlation between being a Star Trek fan/Sci-Fi geek and having a sexual attraction to TG/TS/Ladyboys?:wink:

I don't know but Kirk is rumored to fuck anything .

http://i.eprci.net/klingon-porn-2

[Cecil Rhodes]

Yes, Starfleet is the Space Navy; however, there has been a balance when it came to their ships. Starfleet rarely built a ship that was meant for war before a war has began. For example, the Akira class and Saber class first appeared during the Dominion War. A Federation Dreadnought Class ship was only mentioned in books (non-canon) and alternate realities were the Federation was at war. Starfleet has been reactionary more so than proactive when it comes to war. In this alternative reality, Starfleet has been proactive in ways to defend itself. Starfleet has been focused on the military aspect of their mission more so their exploration aspect. In the original timeline, Kirk wasn't the first Captain to start and complete a five year mission. There were at least two Captains that finished a five year mission before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

Ohhhhh ..... that is 10 more years of secret data to exploit for it's future military potential .

On The Big Bang Theory episode that is on at the moment Will Wheaton is on and Sheldon told him in Kling that Revenge is a dish served best cold . Like he really knows how to do it . In order to speak true Kling you must spit . There is no other way . True Klingon is a Spitfest .

[volkov2006]

1.) Agreed
2.) Agreed that it doesn't make sense
3.) Agreed that it is impossible. It was supposed to be "cool" scenes.
4.) Remember, Starfleet changed since the USS Kelvin was blown up by a powerful ship. Starfleet has become more militaristic.
5.) Something similar happened on Enterprise with Tucker and T'Pol. So, there is some leeway on this matter.
6.) Section 31 did deep space scans of unknown space to find the ship. Starfleet's technology jumped ahead because the USS Kelvin performed scans of the Narada.
7.) USS Enterprise was probably refitted after the Narada battle. Again, Starfleet has become slighty more militaristic.
8.) Remember Star Trek? Spock told Scott how to do transwrap transportation and Scott used it to beam onto a ship with Kirk. Apparently, Scott told Starfleet about the technology; however, Starfleet made it top secret.
11.) Praxis was fan service. And, it was a moon of Qo'nos.
13.) Khan went crazy like he did in the Wrath of Khan. He was cracking skulls with his hands.
15.) Section 31 has always been messy. In Deep Space Nine, they tried to examinate a species through biological warfare.
21.) Admiral Marcus, the bad guy, wanted him dead because he would of exposed his secrets if captured.
22.) The timeline was changed; therefore, there is a chance that attitudes changed too.
24.) Fan service and to show that this is an alternate universe.
25.) Some time passed since he got a blood transfusion before he started the 5 year mission. Maybe he was cleared during that time? Additionally, Bashir was allowed to serve in Starfleet.
26.) Which ships used pulse cannons?
28.) McCoy isn't a math professor!

1: Okay
2: Okay
3: Okay
4: Starfleet has lost many ships throughout its history, from the Klingons, Romulans, Gorn, and possibly the Tholians, all of those shios would have been built for combat and yet Starfleet still did not change its doctrine.
5: Yes but they were the only ship out there at the time, this Enterprise is not. Also it did not affect their duties, only their personal lives.
6: Okay I could give you that but Section 31 is a well oiled machine that would have probably started using "Khan" on another planet and not Earth. Section 31 is not that stupid.
7: See answer #4.
8: Yes I know, but Scotty from the prime timeline developed this "transwarp" transporters, Starfleet did not have transwarp at the time of Nemesis how would Scotty have the tech?
11: I understand that but in the movie the to planetoids are literally touching that is physically impossible.
13: But Khan did not go crazy in TWOK he was angry and pissed off, but he did not freak out and cave peoples heads in. He was passionate about killing Kirk, he was not a psychopath.
15: When I say messy I don't mean how far they will go I mean how sloppy of a job they did they have been established since the founding of the Federation and have remained in secret for 200 years, they are not stupid.
21: If he was working with Section 31 or is the director of Section 31 he went about killing Kirk very badly he could have destroyed Kirk even when he was back on Earth, whether Kirk had that recording or not. Marcus could just sight his record and Kirks record and let the people decide for themselves.
22: Yes things can change but not always. For me I use my own experience of how feelings can change. In 2003 when we invaded Iraq I being in 8th grade and 15 years old, I was completely and utterly against the invasion and know that they had nothing to do with 9/11 or had WMDs, as did a lot of people. Even after soldiers started to die a lot of people changed their stance on the war at that point and supported it, I held my ground no matter how many soldiers were dieing or what any one said, I was passionate, and nothing could change my feelings about it. And I have to believe that if this was a new time line that is at the most only 30 years separate things have not changed that much and I would still be who and what I am.
24: Yes but "Khan" had nothing to do with it if anything it would have been Marcus who was more responsible. In TWOK Khan was personally involved in this and it was his doing that stranded Kirk. Also unlike in TWOK Kirk yelling Khan was very good acting and showed his frustration and hatred. "Spock"s hatred was miss directed, and the acting was horrible and the whole scene seemed forced. "Kirk" did not even have any signs of radiation sickness unlike Spock in TWOK.
25: Okay yes sometime but they do not convey that in the movie. Bashir was only allowed to enter because he hid it, and was only allowed to stay after they worked out a deal for his father to go to jail. And only after he had a good service record and had proved himself. "Kirk" on the other hand does not have a good service record.
26: Both the Enterprise and Marcus' ship used pulse phasers, and in the first movie the Kelvin had pulse phasers, and the Kelvin had them before the timeline changed explain that.
28: McKoy does not say that "Khan" said that to "Kirk"

[BellaBellucci]

24: Yes but "Khan" had nothing to do with it if anything it would have been Marcus who was more responsible. In TWOK Khan was personally involved in this and it was his doing that stranded Kirk. Also unlike in TWOK Kirk yelling Khan was very good acting and showed his frustration and hatred. "Spock"s hatred was miss directed, and the acting was horrible and the whole scene seemed forced. "Kirk" did not even have any signs of radiation sickness unlike Spock in TWOK.

This is my biggest gripe with this movie. This scene ruined my entire viewing experience. :(


25: Okay yes sometime but they do not convey that in the movie. Bashir was only allowed to enter because he hid it, and was only allowed to stay after they worked out a deal for his father to go to jail. And only after he had a good service record and had proved himself. "Kirk" on the other hand does not have a good service record.

That's arguable. On the surface, Kirk is a terrible officer and entirely insubordinate. In the original timeline, he didn't get that way until he had become a good officer and saved the world a few times. I understand that the reboot changed the characters, but his youth and impulsiveness should have barred him from commanding a ship until AFTER he was was a crew member. I find it interesting that Starfleet gave Kirk a ship for beating Nero even though he wasn't ready, threatened to send him all the way back to the Academy for violating the Prime Directive (versus the more appropriate demotion to Commander), and after he saves the world, again by ignoring orders, they send him on a 5 year mission as what is essentially am ambassador of the Federation. He's waaay too young for that.

Say whaaaa?!


26: Both the Enterprise and Marcus' ship used pulse phasers, and in the first movie the Kelvin had pulse phasers, and the Kelvin had them before the timeline changed explain that.

True, but the Star Wars-esque effect didn't belong in that movie, either.

~BB~

[notdrunk]

1: Okay
2: Okay
3: Okay
4: Starfleet has lost many ships throughout its history, from the Klingons, Romulans, Gorn, and possibly the Tholians, all of those shios would have been built for combat and yet Starfleet still did not change its doctrine.
5: Yes but they were the only ship out there at the time, this Enterprise is not. Also it did not affect their duties, only their personal lives.
6: Okay I could give you that but Section 31 is a well oiled machine that would have probably started using "Khan" on another planet and not Earth. Section 31 is not that stupid.
7: See answer #4.
8: Yes I know, but Scotty from the prime timeline developed this "transwarp" transporters, Starfleet did not have transwarp at the time of Nemesis how would Scotty have the tech?
11: I understand that but in the movie the to planetoids are literally touching that is physically impossible.
13: But Khan did not go crazy in TWOK he was angry and pissed off, but he did not freak out and cave peoples heads in. He was passionate about killing Kirk, he was not a psychopath.
15: When I say messy I don't mean how far they will go I mean how sloppy of a job they did they have been established since the founding of the Federation and have remained in secret for 200 years, they are not stupid.
21: If he was working with Section 31 or is the director of Section 31 he went about killing Kirk very badly he could have destroyed Kirk even when he was back on Earth, whether Kirk had that recording or not. Marcus could just sight his record and Kirks record and let the people decide for themselves.
22: Yes things can change but not always. For me I use my own experience of how feelings can change. In 2003 when we invaded Iraq I being in 8th grade and 15 years old, I was completely and utterly against the invasion and know that they had nothing to do with 9/11 or had WMDs, as did a lot of people. Even after soldiers started to die a lot of people changed their stance on the war at that point and supported it, I held my ground no matter how many soldiers were dieing or what any one said, I was passionate, and nothing could change my feelings about it. And I have to believe that if this was a new time line that is at the most only 30 years separate things have not changed that much and I would still be who and what I am.
24: Yes but "Khan" had nothing to do with it if anything it would have been Marcus who was more responsible. In TWOK Khan was personally involved in this and it was his doing that stranded Kirk. Also unlike in TWOK Kirk yelling Khan was very good acting and showed his frustration and hatred. "Spock"s hatred was miss directed, and the acting was horrible and the whole scene seemed forced. "Kirk" did not even have any signs of radiation sickness unlike Spock in TWOK.
25: Okay yes sometime but they do not convey that in the movie. Bashir was only allowed to enter because he hid it, and was only allowed to stay after they worked out a deal for his father to go to jail. And only after he had a good service record and had proved himself. "Kirk" on the other hand does not have a good service record.
26: Both the Enterprise and Marcus' ship used pulse phasers, and in the first movie the Kelvin had pulse phasers, and the Kelvin had them before the timeline changed explain that.
28: McKoy does not say that "Khan" said that to "Kirk"

4.) True; however, Starfleet almost had technological plurality with those people except the Borg. Starfleet could equally destroy Klingons, Romulans, and the Gorn with their ships. Starfleet reacted to the Borg by designing the Defiant Class. When the USS Kelvin was destroyed by an unknown powerful ship, it was a different era of Starfleet. They weren't the powerful Starfleet that explored vast areas of space.
8.) According to prime Spock and Scotty, the problem with transwarp transporting was the equation. It wasn't a technological issue.
13.) In TWOK, Khan did have psychopath tendencies. For example, the majority of Genesis Project team was murdered by Khan and his group.
21.) It wouldn't of fit Marcus' narrative. Marcus wanted war with the Klingons. The destruction of the Enterprise by the Klingons was going to be the casus belli. Marcus thought Kirk would of murdered Khan to revenge the death of Pike.
25.) Kirk saved Earth from destruction. So, I think that looks good in his file.
26.) I thought they were phaser banks the emitted bolts instead of a stream? An USS Kelvin officer flew into a phaser bank.

[Ecstatic]

8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.

As I understand it, transwarp transportation was suggested by Scotty as a means of travelling to an adjacent planet or between ships travelling at warp speed, not as a replacement for starships allowing transporter use from one star system to another hundreds of parsecs distant (see http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_beaming). That level of teleportation is what you'd expect of Q, not of Starfleet.

[volkov2006]

4.) True; however, Starfleet almost had technological plurality with those people except the Borg. Starfleet could equally destroy Klingons, Romulans, and the Gorn with their ships. Starfleet reacted to the Borg by designing the Defiant Class. When the USS Kelvin was destroyed by an unknown powerful ship, it was a different era of Starfleet. They weren't the powerful Starfleet that explored vast areas of space.
8.) According to prime Spock and Scotty, the problem with transwarp transporting was the equation. It wasn't a technological issue.
13.) In TWOK, Khan did have psychopath tendencies. For example, the majority of Genesis Project team was murdered by Khan and his group.
21.) It wouldn't of fit Marcus' narrative. Marcus wanted war with the Klingons. The destruction of the Enterprise by the Klingons was going to be the casus belli. Marcus thought Kirk would of murdered Khan to revenge the death of Pike.
25.) Kirk saved Earth from destruction. So, I think that looks good in his file.
26.) I thought they were phaser banks the emitted bolts instead of a stream? An USS Kelvin officer flew into a phaser bank.

4: True the developed the Defiant Class after the Battle of Wolf 359, they also developed the Akira, Norway, Saber, Steamrunner, Nova, and Prometheus Classes, also not all of those were designed for combat. Also it was in response to 39 Starfleet vessels, an unknown number of Klingon vessels, and the possibility of an unknown number of Romulan vessels, as well as Romulan outposts. This was just one ship and they throw everything out the airlock for one starship being lost. Also the last thing these shuttles would have seen of this ship was it listing and disabled, so would there report not reflect that. So the though of Starfleet Command would just keep a task force of starships at the ready for a conflict with this ship again. Also the Defiant Class was designed to supplement other non combat oriented ships like the Galaxy or the Excelsior classes, not to be a all out destroy all ship, that this Enterprise became.
8: But if it is just a formula problem and not a technological problem why is transwarp so hard then too, transwarp transporting and transwarp seems to be very closely related I just don't think you can have one with out the other.
13: They also said that he killed them during interrogation the people that this "Khan" killed was just to kill them. Also Khan usually does not kill unless it gets him something and not just to do it, if he wanted to just kill why did he not kill every one in Space Seed, in fact he stopped his crew from doing just that.
21: But a large contingent of Klingons were just killed with a Federation phaser rifle, the Klingons would have attacked anyway. I am sure that at least one of those ships must have reported they were under attack from a Human, and Klingons believe all humans are from Starfleet.
25: That is one thing in a sea of bad marks, if someone is a soldier who commits a murder and rape do you still consider them a hero? Or if someone who murdered a person, stole a car, and kidnapped someone and then pulled a person from a burning building would they still be a hero?
26: The Kelvin had phaser beam(the Red ones) it also had pulse phasers( the blue ones) The Enterprise was firing pulse phasers they left the emitters and continued to the target, beam phasers would nore than likely since that is what is shown would have been emitted and continue to the target essentially connecting both ships.

[volkov2006]

As I understand it, transwarp transportation was suggested by Scotty as a means of travelling to an adjacent planet or between ships travelling at warp speed, not as a replacement for starships allowing transporter use from one star system to another hundreds of parsecs distant (see http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_beaming). That level of teleportation is what you'd expect of Q, not of Starfleet.

True and I would have no problem if he transported to a ship or the moon(Luna) but to transport from London to Qo'noS seems a little stretch. I just think it is a little to much.

[volkov2006]

STARFLEET is militaristic . It always has been . It is not only Research & Explorative, it is a PEACEKEEPING service . It may be more defensive than offensive, but in the end there is little difference when the shit hits the fan . STARFLEET is a Naval Service . It has FLEET in it's name . It's ranks are Naval . Not only do Navies have Military Duties, they have Exploration, Research & Scientific ones aswell . Even the smallest Navies on Earth have a Oceanographic Survey or Research Vessel of some type .

When the United States Military finally gets into Space it will be the Navy, not the Air Force that is charge . As far as Land/Planetary Forces are concerned, they will again fall under the Navy by way of the Marines . Space/Planetary Fighters, Bombers, Small Craft etc will fail under Naval Aviation with a Marine Section aswell . Any Space Force that is created afterward will be nothing more than an offshoot branch/service off the Navy .

STARFLEET has a Marine Corps . Kirk mentioned them before the Away Team went down to Kronos . STARFLEET International, the Largest Star Trek Fan Club ( Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate ) has a separate branch called the STARFLEET Marine Corps. / SFMC . They have been around for 3 decades . They use Civil Air Patrol Ribbon Medals for their Fruit Salad . CAP doesn't like it to much but they can't do anything about it . SFMC members make no qualms about being a Military Group .

There were some fans that I know that were considering making a custom colored TNG/DS9 uniform . They were going to be STARFLEET Research & Development . That was just their cover . They were actually going to STARFLEET Intelligence . You don't think that the TOS 5 year mission was for Kirk to fuck every female alien he came into contact with ? The data they collected had to go somewhere . Remember the Genesis Planet ? In ST3 McCoy was asking questions about it and as a result was making certain people very concerned . Who were those people ? It is not hard to figure out .

As far Missile Tubes go, who saw TUSC/ST6 ?

Bat'lith .... I d on't remember seeing one and I was looking . Then again I have a costume made one myself . Mine is awesome and it gets a lot of attention ....... lmao
Sorry for the triple post

In ST3 the person at eh bar was Starfleet Intelligence not Section 31 they are completely different entities.

In ST6 they were in the torpedo tube that was in the neck of the ship these missile tubes were along the engineering section hull.

Saying that Starfleet is a peacekeeping group is like saying that the US is the world police although a lot of people want to think that but we are not.

The Klingons were using Bat'liths they were just redesigned and looked horrible, as far as I know they have no other weapons that look anything like the bat'lith.

We are talking about Star Trek the TV series and movies not what the fans do even if they are Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate does not mean anything. As a fan I could do things an be recognized by them and not every fan will, does that mean that it is canon?

[Cecil Rhodes]

Sorry for the triple post

In ST3 the person at eh bar was Starfleet Intelligence not Section 31 they are completely different entities.

In ST6 they were in the torpedo tube that was in the neck of the ship these missile tubes were along the engineering section hull.

Saying that Starfleet is a peacekeeping group is like saying that the US is the world police although a lot of people want to think that but we are not.

The Klingons were using Bat'liths they were just redesigned and looked horrible, as far as I know they have no other weapons that look anything like the bat'lith.

We are talking about Star Trek the TV series and movies not what the fans do even if they are Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate does not mean anything. As a fan I could do things an be recognized by them and not every fan will, does that mean that it is canon?

I wasn't referring to Section 13 directly, but I was speaking about SF Intel regardless .I didn't even know about Section 31until this movie .

I was looking for something on bing re: Trek last night and came across a custom Section 31 uniform . It turned out to similar to the one I mentioned someone came up with in 1994 .

[SXFX]

As long as there is a Kirk you all can go fuck your selves!

[Cecil Rhodes]

As long as there is a Kirk you all can go fuck your selves!

The only person that I know off that claims to be able to do that is Liberty Harkness .

[alpha2117]

1: They are trying to stay true to the Prime Directive by not letting the indigenous population see them. A few problems with that that "Spock" did not mention. If the indigenous population is on the verge of extinction by a natural disaster and is not technologically advanced enough to stop it, they are not allowed and can not interfere.

Thats not what the PD says - it says you cant effect their societies development. It's fine to save them as long as you dont let them see you doing it.

2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?

In the theory it is super cold thus freezing the surface lava but not the core of the planet - effectively capping the volcano.

3: The Enterprise under water, 1: the nacelles would be torn off from the nacelle struts( this ship was designed for space travel not going into a gas giant or an ocean). 2: The salt water would get into the Bussard collectors and cause problems to the overall operation of the ship.

You have spent way too long looking at fictional specs of a fictional spaceship which is of course a different spaceship to the one in this universe

4: Starfleets uniforms are way to militaristic, they are explorers not soldiers, they remind me of WWII German Army uniforms.

Following the events of the first film with the crazy time travelling Romulans - Starfleet has lost the calming influence of the Vulcans and has headed down a darker path.

5: "Spock" and "Uhura"s relationship would not be allowed on ship it interferes with the way they preform their duties.

Really - and this rule is written where? You just said they were explorers not pure military

6: "Khan" was located in deep space during Kirks historic 5-year mission and they just stumbled on to the SS Botany Bay. How did the Admiral find him so easily?

Post crazy time travelling Romulans Starfleet has been more proactive - they already encountered the Gorn for instance.

7: Since when does the Enterprise have missile tubes, it is an exploration vessel not a combat vessel.

See 2 + Photon torpedos I rememeber lots and lots of photon torpedos in TOS - Have you see the end of Wrath of Khan

8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.

See film 1 of this series

9: Personal communicators have a range that reaches from Klingon space to Earth? Last I looked they were used for surface to ship and internal ship communications only. They are not cell phones.

See transwarp answer to Q 8

10: The Ketha province on Qo'noS was uninhabited? Last I looked that is where the House of Martok lives. And the Klingons that were there were not of the House of Martok the brow ridges are completely wrong.

See film 1 - crazy time travelling Romulans.

11: Praxis is apparently in contact with the Qo'noS how are those two planetoids still in one piece, the gravametric shear would tear them both apart.

Huh? Are you watching the same shows as the rest of us?

12: Why is there still disease on Earth? After first contact poverty, DISEASE, and war are all gone.

Since when - All through TOS McCoy is constantly fighting disease

13: "Khan" was way to emotional and brutal. He was also messy when he attached the emergency council why use a ship that have pulse like phasers, why not a bomb of a projectile that could take the whole room out at once? He is supposed to be a genius.

Okay lets explain his plot "Spoilers ahead" Khan wants the attack to fail - he wants some Starfleet guys to come after him because he wants the Admiral to use his new mega ship so he can steal it - his whole plan is to get on board that ship. He knows the Admiral wants to start a war with the Klingons and he is giving him a plausible reason to go there and stir up the hornets nest

14: "Spock" melds with "Pike" without consent, yes Spock does that with McKoy in TWOK to save his contra. What this "Spock" did is considered in Vulcan philosophy a form of rape.

Vulcan got blown up - Philospophy may have changed drastically.

15: Section 31 was way to messy in my opinion.

Sigh

16: A secret shipyard in orbit of a Jupiter moon? Apparently Jupiter Station could not see it?

Things have changes significantly

17: I hate the Enterprise warp core design is laughable at best and makes absolutely no sense if you understand the way warp drive functions.

You do know Warp drives are fictional right

18: The Enterprise brig apparently does not use force fields any more? Why are they using what I can tell is transparent aluminum, and if it is how does that hole thingy move trough it?

So technology is different after the time line diversed 25 years early - how surprising.

19: How did the Enterprise make it though the Neutral Zone with out the Klingons not see them coming, and they were adrift in Klingon space for how long with out being found.

See film 1

20: "Pike" was give command of the Enterprise again, he was a cripple he would not have been chosen for the new captain. Captains are like astronauts they have to be in good physical condition.

Since when?

21: Starfleet/Federation does not have nor believes in the death penalty.

Time travelling crazy Vulcan destroying Romulans have changed 25 years of the timeline - how do you know what they now believe

22: Karol Marcus is a scientist and not a part of Starfleet and does not like Starfleet.

In a totally different timeline that diverged 25+ years ago

23: The design of the Klingon bat'leth looks hideous, the original one was much better.

Sigh

24: "Spock" yelling "Khan" seems way to forced and in completely out of character.

FFS - the only person he can even remotely call a friend just dies and his half human side just kicked into high gear - he can yell what the hell he wants

25: Starfleet does not allow augments such as "Khan" to serve in Starfleet. When Kirk is saved using "Khan"s blood even though it does not change his personality or physical ability, but non the less makes him partly augment and would be striped of command until at least he went through extensive testing and even then may be discharged from Starfleet.

For hopefully the last time crazy time travelling Romulans

26: Starfleet ships using pulse phasers instead of the beam variant? Starfleet does not develop pulse phasers until the 24th century for the Defiant class.

Sorry - crazy Time Travelling Romulans

27: Weapons are now superficial attachments on starships now rather than internal systems?

Divergent timelines - divergent tech.

28: "Khan" says that he was put into stasis 300 years ago? That would put him in the late 1800s around 1896. We did not have the ability to make genetically engineered humans at that point let alone cryo stasis devices. In TWOK he says that he was sent into space in the year 1996, which to me makes much more sense than 1896 just saying.

The actual date the film starts is Feb 24 2259 so lets give Khan a pass that he was put in stasis between 2 and 3 centuries beforehand. In general conversation I dont really expect him to say 224 years and 134 days do you?

For a hard core Star Trek fan you seem to have missed the whole alternate divergent timeline thing that occured over 25 years before the events of this film and how those events have resulted in a much darker and more dangerous universe as well as a significantly damaged Klingon empire and the planet Vulcan going boom.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Hey, I once had a conversation regarding Star Wars vs Star Trek technology . The Trekker just couldn't understand that Star Wars was because the Star Wars timeline was at least 25,000 years in the past, but Star Trek was 300 years in the future . Oh, and all of it was fiction anyway


1: They are trying to stay true to the Prime Directive by not letting the indigenous population see them. A few problems with that that "Spock" did not mention. If the indigenous population is on the verge of extinction by a natural disaster and is not technologically advanced enough to stop it, they are not allowed and can not interfere.

Thats not what the PD says - it says you cant effect their societies development. It's fine to save them as long as you dont let them see you doing it.

2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?

In the theory it is super cold thus freezing the surface lava but not the core of the planet - effectively capping the volcano.

3: The Enterprise under water, 1: the nacelles would be torn off from the nacelle struts( this ship was designed for space travel not going into a gas giant or an ocean). 2: The salt water would get into the Bussard collectors and cause problems to the overall operation of the ship.

You have spent way too long looking at fictional specs of a fictional spaceship which is of course a different spaceship to the one in this universe

4: Starfleets uniforms are way to militaristic, they are explorers not soldiers, they remind me of WWII German Army uniforms.

Following the events of the first film with the crazy time travelling Romulans - Starfleet has lost the calming influence of the Vulcans and has headed down a darker path.

5: "Spock" and "Uhura"s relationship would not be allowed on ship it interferes with the way they preform their duties.

Really - and this rule is written where? You just said they were explorers not pure military

6: "Khan" was located in deep space during Kirks historic 5-year mission and they just stumbled on to the SS Botany Bay. How did the Admiral find him so easily?

Post crazy time travelling Romulans Starfleet has been more proactive - they already encountered the Gorn for instance.

7: Since when does the Enterprise have missile tubes, it is an exploration vessel not a combat vessel.

See 2 + Photon torpedos I rememeber lots and lots of photon torpedos in TOS - Have you see the end of Wrath of Khan

8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.

See film 1 of this series

9: Personal communicators have a range that reaches from Klingon space to Earth? Last I looked they were used for surface to ship and internal ship communications only. They are not cell phones.

See transwarp answer to Q 8

10: The Ketha province on Qo'noS was uninhabited? Last I looked that is where the House of Martok lives. And the Klingons that were there were not of the House of Martok the brow ridges are completely wrong.

See film 1 - crazy time travelling Romulans.

11: Praxis is apparently in contact with the Qo'noS how are those two planetoids still in one piece, the gravametric shear would tear them both apart.

Huh? Are you watching the same shows as the rest of us?

12: Why is there still disease on Earth? After first contact poverty, DISEASE, and war are all gone.

Since when - All through TOS McCoy is constantly fighting disease

13: "Khan" was way to emotional and brutal. He was also messy when he attached the emergency council why use a ship that have pulse like phasers, why not a bomb of a projectile that could take the whole room out at once? He is supposed to be a genius.

Okay lets explain his plot "Spoilers ahead" Khan wants the attack to fail - he wants some Starfleet guys to come after him because he wants the Admiral to use his new mega ship so he can steal it - his whole plan is to get on board that ship. He knows the Admiral wants to start a war with the Klingons and he is giving him a plausible reason to go there and stir up the hornets nest

14: "Spock" melds with "Pike" without consent, yes Spock does that with McKoy in TWOK to save his contra. What this "Spock" did is considered in Vulcan philosophy a form of rape.

Vulcan got blown up - Philospophy may have changed drastically.

15: Section 31 was way to messy in my opinion.

Sigh

16: A secret shipyard in orbit of a Jupiter moon? Apparently Jupiter Station could not see it?

Things have changes significantly

17: I hate the Enterprise warp core design is laughable at best and makes absolutely no sense if you understand the way warp drive functions.

You do know Warp drives are fictional right

18: The Enterprise brig apparently does not use force fields any more? Why are they using what I can tell is transparent aluminum, and if it is how does that hole thingy move trough it?

So technology is different after the time line diversed 25 years early - how surprising.

19: How did the Enterprise make it though the Neutral Zone with out the Klingons not see them coming, and they were adrift in Klingon space for how long with out being found.

See film 1

20: "Pike" was give command of the Enterprise again, he was a cripple he would not have been chosen for the new captain. Captains are like astronauts they have to be in good physical condition.

Since when?

21: Starfleet/Federation does not have nor believes in the death penalty.

Time travelling crazy Vulcan destroying Romulans have changed 25 years of the timeline - how do you know what they now believe

22: Karol Marcus is a scientist and not a part of Starfleet and does not like Starfleet.

In a totally different timeline that diverged 25+ years ago

23: The design of the Klingon bat'leth looks hideous, the original one was much better.

Sigh

24: "Spock" yelling "Khan" seems way to forced and in completely out of character.

FFS - the only person he can even remotely call a friend just dies and his half human side just kicked into high gear - he can yell what the hell he wants

25: Starfleet does not allow augments such as "Khan" to serve in Starfleet. When Kirk is saved using "Khan"s blood even though it does not change his personality or physical ability, but non the less makes him partly augment and would be striped of command until at least he went through extensive testing and even then may be discharged from Starfleet.

For hopefully the last time crazy time travelling Romulans

26: Starfleet ships using pulse phasers instead of the beam variant? Starfleet does not develop pulse phasers until the 24th century for the Defiant class.

Sorry - crazy Time Travelling Romulans

27: Weapons are now superficial attachments on starships now rather than internal systems?

Divergent timelines - divergent tech.

28: "Khan" says that he was put into stasis 300 years ago? That would put him in the late 1800s around 1896. We did not have the ability to make genetically engineered humans at that point let alone cryo stasis devices. In TWOK he says that he was sent into space in the year 1996, which to me makes much more sense than 1896 just saying.

The actual date the film starts is Feb 24 2259 so lets give Khan a pass that he was put in stasis between 2 and 3 centuries beforehand. In general conversation I dont really expect him to say 224 years and 134 days do you?

For a hard core Star Trek fan you seem to have missed the whole alternate divergent timeline thing that occured over 25 years before the events of this film and how those events have resulted in a much darker and more dangerous universe as well as a significantly damaged Klingon empire and the planet Vulcan going boom.

[Ecstatic]

2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?

In the theory it is super cold thus freezing the surface lava but not the core of the planet - effectively capping the volcano.

Actually cold fusion is not super cold; theoretically it occurs at room temperature, which while relatively "super cold" compared with the millions of degrees at which normal fusion occurs (as in the sun), it's still above the freezing point of water and would not "freeze" a volcano. It's an utterly silly misapplication of physics based on no more than a misinterpretation of the descriptive name "cold fusion."

[volkov2006]

1: They are trying to stay true to the Prime Directive by not letting the indigenous population see them. A few problems with that that "Spock" did not mention. If the indigenous population is on the verge of extinction by a natural disaster and is not technologically advanced enough to stop it, they are not allowed and can not interfere.

Thats not what the PD says - it says you cant effect their societies development. It's fine to save them as long as you dont let them see you doing it.

2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?

In the theory it is super cold thus freezing the surface lava but not the core of the planet - effectively capping the volcano.

3: The Enterprise under water, 1: the nacelles would be torn off from the nacelle struts( this ship was designed for space travel not going into a gas giant or an ocean). 2: The salt water would get into the Bussard collectors and cause problems to the overall operation of the ship.

You have spent way too long looking at fictional specs of a fictional spaceship which is of course a different spaceship to the one in this universe

4: Starfleets uniforms are way to militaristic, they are explorers not soldiers, they remind me of WWII German Army uniforms.

Following the events of the first film with the crazy time travelling Romulans - Starfleet has lost the calming influence of the Vulcans and has headed down a darker path.

5: "Spock" and "Uhura"s relationship would not be allowed on ship it interferes with the way they preform their duties.

Really - and this rule is written where? You just said they were explorers not pure military

6: "Khan" was located in deep space during Kirks historic 5-year mission and they just stumbled on to the SS Botany Bay. How did the Admiral find him so easily?

Post crazy time travelling Romulans Starfleet has been more proactive - they already encountered the Gorn for instance.

7: Since when does the Enterprise have missile tubes, it is an exploration vessel not a combat vessel.

See 2 + Photon torpedos I rememeber lots and lots of photon torpedos in TOS - Have you see the end of Wrath of Khan

I understand that they have 2 photon torpedo tubes I am talking about the missile tubes in the Enterprises engineering sections hull.

8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.

See film 1 of this series

9: Personal communicators have a range that reaches from Klingon space to Earth? Last I looked they were used for surface to ship and internal ship communications only. They are not cell phones.

See transwarp answer to Q 8

10: The Ketha province on Qo'noS was uninhabited? Last I looked that is where the House of Martok lives. And the Klingons that were there were not of the House of Martok the brow ridges are completely wrong.

See film 1 - crazy time travelling Romulans.

11: Praxis is apparently in contact with the Qo'noS how are those two planetoids still in one piece, the gravametric shear would tear them both apart.

Huh? Are you watching the same shows as the rest of us?

Yes I am watching the same shows and movies I own them all, I am talking about that the surfaces are actually touching, not that they are just talking to each other.

12: Why is there still disease on Earth? After first contact poverty, DISEASE, and war are all gone.

Since when - All through TOS McCoy is constantly fighting disease

Yes other diseases from out in space I am talking about on Earth, that is what made the Earth paradise.

13: "Khan" was way to emotional and brutal. He was also messy when he attached the emergency council why use a ship that have pulse like phasers, why not a bomb of a projectile that could take the whole room out at once? He is supposed to be a genius.

Okay lets explain his plot "Spoilers ahead" Khan wants the attack to fail - he wants some Starfleet guys to come after him because he wants the Admiral to use his new mega ship so he can steal it - his whole plan is to get on board that ship. He knows the Admiral wants to start a war with the Klingons and he is giving him a plausible reason to go there and stir up the hornets nest

14: "Spock" melds with "Pike" without consent, yes Spock does that with McKoy in TWOK to save his contra. What this "Spock" did is considered in Vulcan philosophy a form of rape.

Vulcan got blown up - Philospophy may have changed drastically.

So anytime that there is a change in the way a population live or a catastrophic change rape is then acceptable? So after 9/11 it was okay for everyone to rape people in the streets?

15: Section 31 was way to messy in my opinion.

Sigh

16: A secret shipyard in orbit of a Jupiter moon? Apparently Jupiter Station could not see it?

Things have changes significantly

17: I hate the Enterprise warp core design is laughable at best and makes absolutely no sense if you understand the way warp drive functions.

You do know Warp drives are fictional right

Yes this is a passion of mine.

18: The Enterprise brig apparently does not use force fields any more? Why are they using what I can tell is transparent aluminum, and if it is how does that hole thingy move trough it?

So technology is different after the time line diversed 25 years early - how surprising.

So physics have completely changes in a new timeline as well?

19: How did the Enterprise make it though the Neutral Zone with out the Klingons not see them coming, and they were adrift in Klingon space for how long with out being found.

See film 1

That does not explain anything. Unless you are telling me that the Klingons only have 1 fleet.

20: "Pike" was give command of the Enterprise again, he was a cripple he would not have been chosen for the new captain. Captains are like astronauts they have to be in good physical condition.

Since when?

21: Starfleet/Federation does not have nor believes in the death penalty.

Time travelling crazy Vulcan destroying Romulans have changed 25 years of the timeline - how do you know what they now believe

22: Karol Marcus is a scientist and not a part of Starfleet and does not like Starfleet.

In a totally different timeline that diverged 25+ years ago

23: The design of the Klingon bat'leth looks hideous, the original one was much better.

Sigh

Again a passion.

24: "Spock" yelling "Khan" seems way to forced and in completely out of character.

FFS - the only person he can even remotely call a friend just dies and his half human side just kicked into high gear - he can yell what the hell he wants

25: Starfleet does not allow augments such as "Khan" to serve in Starfleet. When Kirk is saved using "Khan"s blood even though it does not change his personality or physical ability, but non the less makes him partly augment and would be striped of command until at least he went through extensive testing and even then may be discharged from Starfleet.

For hopefully the last time crazy time travelling Romulans

26: Starfleet ships using pulse phasers instead of the beam variant? Starfleet does not develop pulse phasers until the 24th century for the Defiant class.

Sorry - crazy Time Travelling Romulans

27: Weapons are now superficial attachments on starships now rather than internal systems?

Divergent timelines - divergent tech.

28: "Khan" says that he was put into stasis 300 years ago? That would put him in the late 1800s around 1896. We did not have the ability to make genetically engineered humans at that point let alone cryo stasis devices. In TWOK he says that he was sent into space in the year 1996, which to me makes much more sense than 1896 just saying.

The actual date the film starts is Feb 24 2259 so lets give Khan a pass that he was put in stasis between 2 and 3 centuries beforehand. In general conversation I dont really expect him to say 224 years and 134 days do you?

For a hard core Star Trek fan you seem to have missed the whole alternate divergent timeline thing that occured over 25 years before the events of this film and how those events have resulted in a much darker and more dangerous universe as well as a significantly damaged Klingon empire and the planet Vulcan going boom.

Forgive me for liking Star Trek and it being a very good passion for me. It is a very good thing to look forward to, a better time when all humans work for the betterment of all human kind. Racism, sexism, bigotry, poverty, disease, and war are all a thing of the past it is something I would hope all people would want a better future than what we have coming.
Also using the alternate timeline argument is the easy way out. It is like saying homosexuality is wrong, you can not give any other reasons but to say that it is wrong.
Also I understand that this is an alternate time line, but people asked me for my Star Trek fan analysis. I am a hardcore Star Trek fan TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, TMP, and TNG movies, I am not a fan of these movies, that is what this list was for.

Also why in this thread I get asked for things and when I do am instantly attacked and destroyed for what I like? I am sure all of you have passions that not everyone understands, so why is this so different for me. I have tried to make a good conversation and have a somewhat good debate and all I get is people yelling that I am not a true fan, or that I have no life.

In conclusion if no one wants my my opinion without attacking my passion I will stop. If we can continue with a good debate like some of us have had then thank you, if not then I give up. I am tired of getting attacked for what I like, I get enough of that from my family and friends. This was one of the last places of sanctuary for me, I have lost all but my wife since I came out as trans, but if I can't have this either without being attacked so be it.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Hitler reacts to new Star Trek movie - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9i9N-Ez5Y8&feature=player_detailpage)

[chelseafc]

This movie was awesome for what it was. For those who saw Wrath of Khan then it was easy to predict what was going to happen. However, Robocop (Peter Weller) he was great in his scenes and the USS Vengeance; what an amazing ship that was.

To the hardcore fans, i dont think they will ever do an exploration movie in their five year mission. I bet the next movie will be them back from a their mission and a war with the Klingons is in progress.

[Gillian]

This will probably start a Nerd War ... in a galaxy far, far away ... :)

Death Star Destroys Enterprise (Special Edition) - IGN Original - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v69RuwsGv_I)

[Females+Shemales]

Seriously, fuck this movie! Benedict Cumberbatch should've played Gary Mitchell!

[TSBootyLondon]

I can't wait to see it, my movie to see list is on the increase.... The Hang Over III tonight..... must be done! xx B

[Prospero]

Hang over III got the worst reviews of any film I've seen reviewed recently. You gotta be joking!!

[bassman2546]

We need more movies about comic books that rely on special effects and CGI while recycling the same lame story beats and plot points over and over sucking money out of the pockets of naive viewers. Just not enough comic book movies, I say.:rolleyes:

Thank you, Hollywood for your continuous originality. :jerkoff

[Prospero]

Hollywood is sooooo courageous. It passed on the Liberace biopic "Behind The Candelabra" which director Stepnhen Soderberg had to get made for HBO. Hollywood's verdict - too gay!

[Cecil Rhodes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PItHRedVs70

[kukm4]

a bit related and a bit off topic.

BOTS: "It&#39;s Spock! Do You Care?" with Zachary Quinto - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tde9dAH96Ns)

[Ecstatic]

We need more movies about comic books that rely on special effects and CGI while recycling the same lame story beats and plot points over and over sucking money out of the pockets of naive viewers. Just not enough comic book movies, I say.:rolleyes:

Thank you, Hollywood for your continuous originality. :jerkoff

I take it you're buying advance tickets to Man of Steel?

[SXFX]

just saw it .... it was great....fuck you

[Prospero]

Star Trek:Into Darkness.... a mega yawn I'm afraid.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Star Trek:Into Darkness.... a mega yawn I'm afraid.

Says the Man With 2 Faces