Tim Wise

[ed_jaxon]

Tim Wise is coming to the University of Chicago to speak and I think I will go check it out.

I know he has been bandied about here so what are people's thoughts?

It's times like this that I miss OMK, never agreed with him but always was good to see the other sides points.

[Stavros]

I had never heard of Tim Wise before, so I googled him and got his webpages, linked below with an article on the Boston bombing which argues:


White privilege is knowing that if the Boston bomber turns out to be white, we will not be asked to denounce him or her, so as to prove our own loyalties to the common national good. It is knowing that the next time a cop sees one of us standing on the sidewalk cheering on runners in a marathon, that cop will say exactly nothing to us as a result.
White privilege is knowing that if you are a white student from Nebraska — as opposed to, say, a student from Saudi Arabia — that no one, and I mean no one would think it important to detain and question you in the wake of a bombing such as the one at the Boston Marathon.


Apart from 'White' not denoting a 'race' (whatever that is) I think Wise is being naive. Maybe some Americans were actually comforted by the fact that the Tsarnaev brothers were not 'one of us' in spite of Dzhokar's US citizenship -in other words being 'White' had nothing to do with it; and had Wise been living in the UK between the late 1960s and the 1990s being 'White' would not have exempted some people from profiling if their name was Paddy or Sean because 90% or more of the people responsible for bombings and assassinations on behalf of a 'United Ireland' were Irish -even though 90% or more of the Irish people wished it were not so. Six Irish men were imprisoned for 16 years for crimes they did not commit, but they were Irish. In Wise's lexicon, the Irish I presume are 'White' -not privileged at all in my lifetime.
http://www.timwise.org/

[hippifried]

Since Chechans are caucasian, aren't they white?

[Ben]

Tim Wise is coming to the University of Chicago to speak and I think I will go check it out.

I know he has been bandied about here so what are people's thoughts?

It's times like this that I miss OMK, never agreed with him but always was good to see the other sides points.

I've read a few of his books. He's very good.

[natina]

WHITES CAME here FOR REligous freedom

TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip



Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"

http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative



The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality,

Tim Wise: On White Privilege (Clip) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)




http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip




related links/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)



TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL

TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)



Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)



Tim Wise social control
Tim Wise social control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXO-_Hoyhk&NR=1)




Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education .....
Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)



COPING SKILLS is the ISSUE with WHITE MALES!

talks about white violence because of the coping factor.

http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html


white pride and erin matting's white student union

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2013/04/01/erin-mattingly-white-student-union.cnn


white people have affimative action to


“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1





http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/




Thinking While Black: Barack Obama, Race and the Politics of Conservative Smears

Forget Barack Obama’s praise for legal scholar Derrick Bell.
Never mind his decades-long association with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
Neither of these connections will matter once you get a load of what I’ve uncovered: a linkage between the president and someone at least as radical if not more so than either of those. A man whom President Obama has openly praised, and not just twenty-two years ago at some fairly innocuous law school protest, but regularly, in his books, in his speeches, repeatedly, over the course of his political career. Someone whom he has still never repudiated, as he did with Wright, no matter the many statements this individual is on record as making, and which line up rather nicely with many of Wright’s views.

What does this militant, for whom the president shows so much love, say about white folks and race in America? Only that “Racism is a way of life for the vast majority of white Americans, spoken and unspoken, acknowledged and denied, subtle and sometimes not so subtle — the disease of racism permeates and poisons a whole body politic,” and that whites largely refuse to acknowledge “the debt that they owe a people who were kept in slavery,” for hundreds of years.
What is the position of this dangerous subversive to whom Barack Obama is clearly tethered, when it comes to the role of the United States in the world? Only that, “We’ve committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I’m going to continue to say it. And we won’t stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation.”
There is more, much more in fact: pointed condemnations of white racism and arrogance, trenchant critiques of American nationalism and patriotism, and withering bromides against the wealthy, all from a man whom Barack Obama praises often, and apparently regards as something of a national role model.
Indeed, he said as much a few months ago, when he dedicated a monument to this man on the Mall in Washington — the recently unveiled statue for Martin Luther King Jr.
One can only wonder how Andrew Breitbart would have spun this, or how Sean Hannity might still. ....
http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/thinking-while-black-barack-obama-race-and-the-politics-of-conservative-smears/


white people have affimative action to


“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1


http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/




COLORBLIND AMBITION: THE RISE OF POST RACIAL POLITICS AND THE RETREAT FROM RACIAL EQUITY

It was summer 2004 when most of us first became familiar with Barack Obama. Then an Illinois state senator, the U.S. senate candidate delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in Boston: the first of his many now-famous orations on a national stage. Therein he delivered several applause lines, but none were as big as when he proclaimed:

"There's not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America."

Though one might welcome such a statement were it offered in the future and aspirational tense -- as a heartfelt plea for true equality -- Obama proclaimed it in the descriptive and present tense. In so doing he traded intellectual honesty for easy and predictable ovation. After all, 2004 was the same year that research from MIT and the University of Chicago found that job applicants with "white" names were 50 percent more likely to be called back for an interview than those with "black" names, even when all their qualifications were indistinguishable. And with black and brown unemployment standing at double the white rate, even as the new upstart from Chicago poured forth rhetoric professing national unity (and with the median white family possessing 8-10 times the net worth of the median black or Latino family), it should have been apparent that Obama was engaged in political science fiction rather than the description of sociological truth.

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/colorblind-ambition-the-rise-post-racial-politics-and-retreat-racial-equity

white person is more likely to shot up a school,kill his whole family, serial killer
TIM WISE
talks about white violence because of the coping factor
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html



TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL

TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)





Tim Wise social control
Tim Wise social control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXO-_Hoyhk&NR=1)

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/colorblind-ambition-the-rise-post-racial-politics-and-retreat-racial-equity


http://www.redroom.com/media/tim-wise/

On White Pride and Other Delusions: Reflections on the Rage of the Uninformed



http://www.timwise.org/2007/05/on-white-pride-and-other-delusions-reflections-on-the-rage-of-the-uninformed/

[Dino Velvet]

white pride and erin matting's white student union

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2013/04/01/erin-mattingly-white-student-union.cnn


white people have affimative action to


“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1





http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/




Thinking While Black: Barack Obama, Race and the Politics of Conservative Smears

Forget Barack Obama’s praise for legal scholar Derrick Bell.
Never mind his decades-long association with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
Neither of these connections will matter once you get a load of what I’ve uncovered: a linkage between the president and someone at least as radical if not more so than either of those. A man whom President Obama has openly praised, and not just twenty-two years ago at some fairly innocuous law school protest, but regularly, in his books, in his speeches, repeatedly, over the course of his political career. Someone whom he has still never repudiated, as he did with Wright, no matter the many statements this individual is on record as making, and which line up rather nicely with many of Wright’s views.

What does this militant, for whom the president shows so much love, say about white folks and race in America? Only that “Racism is a way of life for the vast majority of white Americans, spoken and unspoken, acknowledged and denied, subtle and sometimes not so subtle — the disease of racism permeates and poisons a whole body politic,” and that whites largely refuse to acknowledge “the debt that they owe a people who were kept in slavery,” for hundreds of years.
What is the position of this dangerous subversive to whom Barack Obama is clearly tethered, when it comes to the role of the United States in the world? Only that, “We’ve committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I’m going to continue to say it. And we won’t stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation.”
There is more, much more in fact: pointed condemnations of white racism and arrogance, trenchant critiques of American nationalism and patriotism, and withering bromides against the wealthy, all from a man whom Barack Obama praises often, and apparently regards as something of a national role model.
Indeed, he said as much a few months ago, when he dedicated a monument to this man on the Mall in Washington — the recently unveiled statue for Martin Luther King Jr.
One can only wonder how Andrew Breitbart would have spun this, or how Sean Hannity might still. ....
http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/thinking-while-black-barack-obama-race-and-the-politics-of-conservative-smears/


white people have affimative action to


“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1


http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/


WHITES CAME here FOR REligous freedom

TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip

Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality,

Tim Wise: On White Privilege (Clip) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)


http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip


related links/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)

Statistics you wont hear white people quote!
TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL

TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)


Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)


Tim Wise social control
Tim Wise social control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXO-_Hoyhk&NR=1)


Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education .....
Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)

COPING SKILLS is the ISSUE with WHITE MALES!

talks about white violence because of the coping factor.

http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html

COLORBLIND AMBITION: THE RISE OF POST RACIAL POLITICS AND THE RETREAT FROM RACIAL EQUITY

It was summer 2004 when most of us first became familiar with Barack Obama. Then an Illinois state senator, the U.S. senate candidate delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in Boston: the first of his many now-famous orations on a national stage. Therein he delivered several applause lines, but none were as big as when he proclaimed:

"There's not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America."

Though one might welcome such a statement were it offered in the future and aspirational tense -- as a heartfelt plea for true equality -- Obama proclaimed it in the descriptive and present tense. In so doing he traded intellectual honesty for easy and predictable ovation. After all, 2004 was the same year that research from MIT and the University of Chicago found that job applicants with "white" names were 50 percent more likely to be called back for an interview than those with "black" names, even when all their qualifications were indistinguishable. And with black and brown unemployment standing at double the white rate, even as the new upstart from Chicago poured forth rhetoric professing national unity (and with the median white family possessing 8-10 times the net worth of the median black or Latino family), it should have been apparent that Obama was engaged in political science fiction rather than the description of sociological truth.

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/colorblind-ambition-the-rise-post-racial-politics-and-retreat-racial-equity

white person is more likely to shot up a school,kill his whole family, serial killer
TIM WISE
talks about white violence because of the coping factor
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html



TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL

TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)





Tim Wise social control
Tim Wise social control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXO-_Hoyhk&NR=1)

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/colorblind-ambition-the-rise-post-racial-politics-and-retreat-racial-equity


http://www.redroom.com/media/tim-wise/

On White Pride and Other Delusions: Reflections on the Rage of the Uninformed



http://www.timwise.org/2007/05/on-white-pride-and-other-delusions-reflections-on-the-rage-of-the-uninformed/

How has White Privilege helped you, Natina?

[yodajazz]

I had never heard of Tim Wise before, so I googled him and got his webpages, linked below with an article on the Boston bombing which argues:


White privilege is knowing that if the Boston bomber turns out to be white, we will not be asked to denounce him or her, so as to prove our own loyalties to the common national good. It is knowing that the next time a cop sees one of us standing on the sidewalk cheering on runners in a marathon, that cop will say exactly nothing to us as a result.
White privilege is knowing that if you are a white student from Nebraska — as opposed to, say, a student from Saudi Arabia — that no one, and I mean no one would think it important to detain and question you in the wake of a bombing such as the one at the Boston Marathon.


Apart from 'White' not denoting a 'race' (whatever that is) I think Wise is being naive. Maybe some Americans were actually comforted by the fact that the Tsarnaev brothers were not 'one of us' in spite of Dzhokar's US citizenship -in other words being 'White' had nothing to do with it; and had Wise been living in the UK between the late 1960s and the 1990s being 'White' would not have exempted some people from profiling if their name was Paddy or Sean because 90% or more of the people responsible for bombings and assassinations on behalf of a 'United Ireland' were Irish -even though 90% or more of the Irish people wished it were not so. Six Irish men were imprisoned for 16 years for crimes they did not commit, but they were Irish. In Wise's lexicon, the Irish I presume are 'White' -not privileged at all in my lifetime.
http://www.timwise.org/

You make an interesting point. In the end the issue is greater than race, but about denying groups of people access to the benefits of the greater society. But addressing the issue of race in the US can be a means for addressing this in the greater world.

But speaking of the Irish, I remember long ago, reading an article about the oppression of Irish Catholics in the Muhammad Speaks newspaper. The paper was the official publication of the group in the US, that actually advocated a separate nation for Black in America. But this article more ore less tied the oppression of the Irish to the oppression of Blacks around the world. It even said the Prime Minister of South Africa, (in was under White rule at that time), said that he wished he could have the laws in his own nation, that the Irish government had to hold down Catholics. I don't recall seeing a lot of positive articles about Irish Catholics in the US press at that time. I would be interested to hear what any other Americans knew about the conflict at that time.

So this is to say that Tim Wise's focus on race, in the US is something that could eventually benefit ethnic issues around the world.

[yodajazz]

How has White Privilege helped you, Natina?

White Privilege has been responsible for Natina gathering numerous articles, and posting them here on HA. And without this, she would have too much free time, and be forced to enter the dating world. And we know how tough that would be. I know that racism is real, but I'm not sure about Natina. I guess that life just has it mysteries.

[Stavros]

You make an interesting point. In the end the issue is greater than race, but about denying groups of people access to the benefits of the greater society. But addressing the issue of race in the US can be a means for addressing this in the greater world.

But speaking of the Irish, I remember long ago, reading an article about the oppression of Irish Catholics in the Muhammad Speaks newspaper. The paper was the official publication of the group in the US, that actually advocated a separate nation for Black in America. But this article more ore less tied the oppression of the Irish to the oppression of Blacks around the world. It even said the Prime Minister of South Africa, (in was under White rule at that time), said that he wished he could have the laws in his own nation, that the Irish government had to hold down Catholics. I don't recall seeing a lot of positive articles about Irish Catholics in the US press at that time. I would be interested to hear what any other Americans knew about the conflict at that time.

So this is to say that Tim Wise's focus on race, in the US is something that could eventually benefit ethnic issues around the world.

I probably distorted the argument in the case of the Irish in Britain, because the history of the Irish in America is quite different and doesn't have the same resonance as it does here. On the other hand, if you cannot see someone, profiling on the basis of a name can not be too hard, even if it as risky as deciding that the black person approaching you on the street is part of an identifiable 'race' even if he was born in Jamaica of a black man and a white woman, or Colombia, or Abu Dhabi and so on and so on. The moment in the film Crash when the policeman with a sick father calls the health service and speaks to a woman who says her name is Shaniqua is telling -he instantly knows she is black even without seeing her. I guess if you are in rural Pennsylvania and meet someone called Luke, Ezekiel or Jedediah you might make assumptions about his family background, just as in New York if you meet someone called Jacob or Solomon you would think 'Jewish' even though they might not be -but that might depend on your definition of a Jew.
In the UK when I was in the Labour party we had an 'Asian list' of voters in the constituency, apparently simple if the surname is Patel, Singh, Bannerjee, Chatterjee and so on -'white' members of the party were told not to canvass them, the 'Asian panel' would go round and do it. The assumption that all Asians voted Labour, to some extent true for a while, no longer holds. And that is without seeing the colour of anyone's skin. A one way street to chaos.

[Prospero]

There was a time, shortly after the London bombings when it was alarming to see a large asian man with the familiar skull cap and big beard and shortish robe (a Salafist style) board a bus or tube with a backpack. I watched an exodus of passengers from one tube car when one such guy boarded and then sat reading his Koran and muttering. In the end in all certainty he was simply a devout religious guy. But fear of the "other" is instinctive, especially when the trappings are the same as those associated with acts of terror. Reason tells you to think otherwise, but sometimes reason is overruled by other instincts.

Of course to avoid being accused of discrimination you get the situation where little old ladies are pulled aside at airports for special searches - clearly so that officialdom doesn't appear prejudiced.

[trish]

Interpreted broadly, racism is institutionalized in almost all societies. What anthropologists call traditional societies have a deep distrust of “the other” and that fear is usually mirrored in their customs and way of life. It is not surprising that some modern societies have built institutions around racism while others have tried to dismantle those institutions yet still retain institutionalized remnants that make life harder for one category of people and easier for others.

Awareness of the asymmetries within one’s own society is always a good thing and Tim Wise has apparently dedicated himself to think deeply about these issues and propagate his views. It is not surprising that there is animosity against him.
It is never pleasant to face the fact that racism is still alive within one’s own society (just this week, just a few counties away from were I live, the KKK has been passing out recruitment fliers).
Nor is it pleasant to find it embedded in laws and institutions even if it has been eradicated from most hearts.
Perhaps too, some of the animosity directed toward Mr. Wise is due to the fact that he has built a lucrative business around the asymmetry he rails against.

I rarely read Mr. Wise myself because I just find the topic too depressing. But if he were to speak at my campus, I would go and hear what he has to say. What can it hurt? Take a date Ed, have a coffee and a conversation afterward. Maybe get laid.

[Stavros]

Interpreted broadly, racism is institutionalized in almost all societies. What anthropologists call traditional societies have a deep distrust of “the other” and that fear is usually mirrored in their customs and way of life. It is not surprising that some modern societies have built institutions around racism while others have tried to dismantle those institutions yet still retain institutionalized remnants that make life harder for one category of people and easier for others.

Awareness of the asymmetries within one’s own society is always a good thing and Tim Wise has apparently dedicated himself to think deeply about these issues and propagate his views. It is not surprising that there is animosity against him.



But surely what you are really dealing with is mostly colour prejudice given 'scientific legitimacy' by its association with the concept of 'race' -which upon inspection is neither scientific nor legitimate; and prejudice can also stretch to clothing -the bearded Muslim in a dishdash in central London- as well as names. A black man in Johannesburg sees a white man approaching on the street: is he a liberal Jew, a Boer fanatic, a tourist from Sweden? Using Wise's argument, does 'white privilege' in the USA become 'Black privilege' in South Africa -if you go for a job and you are not black -or maybe a member of the ANC - are you going to get shortlisted? Even in South Africa Black can mean many things.

How one breaks down these fences seems more important to me.

[trish]

What marks one person as “the other” can be color, attire, accent, physical features, expressed beliefs, tattoos etc. For now let’s call these “societal markers.” Who “the other” is depends on who you are; i.e. it depends on the society under discussion. The practices, customs and institutions that disadvantage the other will vary from society to society. I’m not at all familiar with South Africa but I would not be surprised to learn that some South African institutions disadvantage people of European extraction.

One source of complication can be the economic status of "the others" within a given society. “The other” in a society is very often economically disadvantaged. Laws that seem symmetric with regard to societal markers but which disadvantage the poor have asymmetric effect on “the others” within the society.

As I said, I haven’t read very much of Tim Wise’s stuff, but my impression is that his concerns are mostly about “racism” in the U.S., how it is fossilized within our institutions and laws, and though “breaking down” fences is a primary importance as is reforming the institutions.

[Dino Velvet]

White Privilege has been responsible for Natina gathering numerous articles, and posting them here on HA. And without this, she would have too much free time, and be forced to enter the dating world. And we know how tough that would be. I know that racism is real, but I'm not sure about Natina. I guess that life just has it mysteries.

But she's as White as I am. If there's this privilege, where's her benefit? Nathan has been a bit of a snake oil salesman for some time.

[hippifried]

Louis CK - Being White - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY)