Boston Marathon

[Dino Velvet]

Have no idea what's going on. Turn on the TV.

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/two-explosions-boston-marathon-finish-line-190259876--spt.html

[GroobySteven]

Yeah watching it live.

[Dino Velvet]

http://l1.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/041513/images/smush/boston_marathon_635x250_1366053469.jpg

[Dino Velvet]

Local LE reports at least 3 dead with others losing limbs.

[GroobyKrissy]

The aerial footage is terrible. So much blood. No casualties reported yet. So sad. [correction - casualties now being reported]

[littletwink]

Yeah, if the body count is 0, save that shit cuz no one is gonna care. Sad.

[Dino Velvet]

Live stream http://abcnews.go.com/live

[GroobyKrissy]

yeah, if the body count is 0, save that shit cuz no one is gonna care. Sad.

wtf?

[Dino Velvet]

Patriot's Day in Boston today.


The Boston Marathon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon) is run on Patriots' Day every year, so many Bostonians know the holiday as "Marathon Monday".
Patriots' Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots%27_Day)

[youngblood61]

2 confirmed dead.

[eccentricBlue]

Crazy, 2 bombs are usually tactical to inflict more casualties and I read that they are finding more "devices".

[NightmareX0666]

wow guess a total of 3 explosions....they showed the first explosions and seeing that runner go down...wow. They just mentioned the past bombings or incidents...Oklahoma City was 4/17, the Columbine was 4/20...

[up_for_it]

Totally nuts....

I heard on CNN the anniversary of Waco is coming up too.

I hope all the other casualties pull through.

[flabbybody]

Boston police still not calling it act of terror. doubt this was gas line explosion

[my my my!]

As is "usual" in these situations here in the United States, the media covers these things really well and try to keep us informed. Some see it as over coverage some times (not my opinion).

Here's what I've gathered so far from reading multiple sites and more or less I'm writing the stuff they DO agree on:
2 Bombs did go off One right at the finish line, and the second about 15 feet away

3rd Bomb has been found and detonated by police. 4th and 5th bomb status unknown. Making a total of 5 known bombs.

JFK airport incident , ruled out as "fire" and NOT related to the bombings

Confirmed Dead 2 (many sites are reporting 3 Dead)
Wounded: 55+ seems to be the common figure now

Other Interesting Data:
In Boston , April 15th is "Patriot Day" , and the official day for the Boston Marathon

In the United States , April 15th is generally considered "Tax Day"

Now the speculation is very widespread.
on separate forums, people are blaming arabs, Muslims, white militias, North Koreans, Al Qaeda , anti Tax nuts, NRA nuts, racists, and others.

[Dino Velvet]

Very early and speculative.

12 dead, at least more 50 injured after 2 explosions rock Boston Marathon, suspect identified and being guarded in hospital (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/two_explosions_at_boston_marathon_iMR0LCkcwASg0RQf VsH1yI)

[Dino Velvet]

Boston Police Commissioner denies person in custody not commenting on deaths either.

[Prospero]

Two dead and no arrests police confirm. JFK library NOT a bomb but a fire

[flabbybody]

Obama addressing nation shortly

[Dino Velvet]

https://twitter.com/AP


BREAKING: Boston police commissioner says no suspect is in custody in marathon explosions

[StlyeMeCunty]

Obama addressing nation shortly

Is there an online stream of that?

[surf4490]

This is a bit odd ?
http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopular/story/UM-Coach-Bomb-Sniffing-Dogs-Were-at-Start-Finish/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx

[Idt20082008"]

Friend of mine was at the explosion site 5 minutes before it happened. Until we find out who did this, I'm going to withhold saying anything else other than this - enough is enough, an example must be made when the police/FBI etc catch who did this. Foreign or domestic, it does not matter. I do not know what that would be at all at this point, however something must be done to make anyone think twice before trying to mass murder people again. I realize that is easier said than done and anyone with a "cause" probably cares less about what happens to themselves than everyone else, but enough is enough

[Dino Velvet]

delete

[StlyeMeCunty]

This is just in case people have not seen the video of the actual bombs going off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ael-VoMURGA

[Gillian]

This is what the UK experienced at the height of "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland with IRA bombings not uncommon on the UK mainland and even more regular in NI itself. You can imagine our reaction when we heard the IRA was drawing funding from NORAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noraid)in the US.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. At least that's how NORAID supporters justified their stance.

[robertlouis]

Terrible to see my favourite, and, in my experience, the most civilised city in America attacked and hurt in this awful way. The humanity and generosity of spirit that characterise Bostonians will ensure that it recovers in time. Right now, however, our thoughts need to be with the injured and grieving.

Meanwhile, those lovable folks down in Greenboro Tn are blaming the tragedy on gay marriage. FFS.

[NightmareX0666]

Friend of mine was at the explosion site 5 minutes before it happened. Until we find out who did this, I'm going to withhold saying anything else other than this - enough is enough, an example must be made when the police/FBI etc catch who did this. Foreign or domestic, it does not matter. I do not know what that would be at all at this point, however something must be done to make anyone think twice before trying to mass murder people again. I realize that is easier said than done and anyone with a "cause" probably cares less about what happens to themselves than everyone else, but enough is enough

Here is the sad fact nothing can be done to stop the violent behavior. If and when they catch this douchebag or the group of douchebags someone will find them to be heroes, we can execute them for treason or whatever the crime will be - they become martyrs. Leave them to rot in jail...but due to the high profile of the case might be stuck in solitary confinement and not with general population where these people could(should?) be someone's bitch! People will decide what they did was good but not good enough and start to do a copycat bombing. I wish there was another answer but there isn't...

[robertlouis]

The only way to deal with them is to ensure that they undergo the full due process of law and sentence them accordingly. Civilised behaviour is what separates us from those who randomly seek to murder and destroy.

[Idt20082008"]

The only way to deal with them is to ensure that they undergo the full due process of law and sentence them accordingly. Civilised behaviour is what separates us from those who randomly seek to murder and destroy.

I actually agree with you, as well as with what nightmare said, and I am NOT suggesting we hurt innocent people, start bombing faraway lands, perform public beheadings or anything else that is really beyond the scope of the law. What I am suggesting or hoping is another way be found to deal with the cowards who do something like this, whatever it might be. I don't have any answers or ideas what this could be at all without going outside the boundaries of the law, all I do know is I'm tired of seeing what happened today being repeated over and over here and abroad. What can be done? Maybe nothing because anyone who would do this clearly doesn't fear for their own life, but some deterrent needs to be found before another 9/11 happens or worse....

[Prospero]

Civilised behaviour is what separates us from those who randomly seek to murder and destroy.

Summed up perfectly.

[robertlouis]

Summed up perfectly.

Thank you.

Meanwhile, the usual conspiracy theoridiots are out in force, and, on Facebook, some twisted bastards are even trying to turn the whole horror into a pro-gun argument. Beyond sick.

[Prospero]

Well bombs don't kill people.... so the logic is constant

[natina]

Authorities ID person of interest as Saudi national in marathon bombings, under guard at Boston hospital (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO)

Police clear the area at the finish line of the 2013 Boston Marathon.

Investigators have a suspect — a Saudi Arabian national — in the horrific Boston Marathon bombings, The Post has learned.
Law enforcement sources said the 20-year-old suspect was under guard at an undisclosed Boston hospital.
Fox News reported that the suspect suffered severe burns.
It was not immediately clear why the man was hospitalized and whether he was injured in the attack or in his apprehension.
The man was caught less than two hours after the 2:50 p.m. bombing on the finish line of the race, in the heart of Boston.


In addition, Boston police have surveillance video of someone bringing multiple backpacks to the blast site, according to CBS News.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO

[Prospero]

It is interesting how the advent of social media brings all manner of distortions to the public perception of events such as yesterday's bombings - with natina's posts a perfect example.
I was first alerted to this when i had a newsflash mid evening yesterday from the NYTimes on my Ipad - mere minutes after the blast. On twitter pictures and claims - and counterclaims - were flowing fast. For instance, the "additional bombing" - later proven to be nothing more than a fire. The erroneous claims of a Saudi arrested. Police later confirmed no one was in custody. And then of course jerk-off fools like a Fox comentator demanding that "all Muslims be killed' as a response to what remains an attack without any clear indications of a culprit. Twitter is terrific - if taken with a large pinch of salt. The actual "citizen journalism" it offers - feeds from people at the scene, footage, photographs - is remarkable.
But the distortions it produces, aided and abetted by the yellow press (The New York Post - a Murdoch owned gutter newspaper rather like his Fox operation) is harmful and repulsive.

Let the police find out who did this. let due processes of law run their course. All else is hysteria.

[BiBoyinBeantown]

I and mine are all OK, thankfully. I did know some people who went to watch the marathon today but thankfully they weren't at the finish line.

[GroobySteven]

I remember traveling in Boston in the late 80's and early 90's - it's a great city and great people marred by one fact that sticks in my head (I saw the same at the St.Paddy's Day parade in NYC). People openly collecting money to support the IRA.

I truly hope that in the aftermath of 9/11 and other terrorists attacks and what we've came to know about how these organizations work, that things have changed in both those cities and that all civilized people condemn terrorism no matter where sympathies may lie.

Changes happen through social pressure on politics - not on bombing civilians and especially not children.

[Willie Escalade]

Then we have THIS asshole...

[african1]

Now the speculation is very widespread.
on separate forums, people are blaming arabs, Muslims, white militias, North Koreans, Al Qaeda , anti Tax nuts, NRA nuts, racists, and others.

in a nutshell: Everybody.

[BellaBellucci]

Bostonians are extremely resilient. We don't know the meaning of the word 'demoralized.' Expect a record turnout for next year's marathon.

#boston #pride #defiance #nofear #rip

~BB~

[irvin66]

My God what is happening? The nutcase Muslims are at it again!!!:hide-1:

[up_for_it]

I remember traveling in Boston in the late 80's and early 90's - it's a great city and great people marred by one fact that sticks in my head (I saw the same at the St.Paddy's Day parade in NYC). People openly collecting money to support the IRA.

I truly hope that in the aftermath of 9/11 and other terrorists attacks and what we've came to know about how these organizations work, that things have changed in both those cities and that all civilized people condemn terrorism no matter where sympathies may lie.

Changes happen through social pressure on politics - not on bombing civilians and especially not children.

Well said Seanchai, this kind of thing is deplorable. I've also heard stories about collection drives for the IRA and dismissed them as urban legend. Sadly they seem to be true.

[Dino Velvet]

Bostonians are extremely resilient. We don't know the meaning of the word 'demoralized.' Expect a record turnout for next year's marathon.

#boston #pride #defiance #nofear #rip

~BB~

Good post, Bella. I know you're a Beantown girl.

[robertlouis]

Well said Seanchai, this kind of thing is deplorable. I've also heard stories about collection drives for the IRA and dismissed them as urban legend. Sadly they seem to be true.

When I gigged in north London pubs and clubs in London in the 80s there would often be an Irishman with a collection tin at the back of the room.

The enemy within indeed.

[iagodelgado]

So much "news" so much mis-information.

4 bombs? 5 bombs? More than one location? An arrest?

2 bombs. Both very crude.

The FBI has ceased any "terrorist" angle.

You are looking for some dick-head who tried to get a name for HIMself by planting two nasty, home-made devices to kill as many humans as possible.

His defense will be - 1 I was mentally unstable at the time I planned and methodically carried out these inhuman acts - 2 These people are taking over the world, I was within my rights.

[luvs2lick1385]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It's time to take the gloves off. If they won't play by the rules, then we shouldn't either. Screw all the bleeding heart liberals worrying about collateral damage. Shit happens and people die, just like the 3,000 at the world trade center, the 8 year old boy and two others from Boston, not to mention the other thousands injured. Lets turn the whole mid east into a giant kitty litter box. You can't bomb them back to the stone age, that's only an upgrade. Fuck ALL you muslum bastards.

[robertlouis]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It's time to take the gloves off. If they won't play by the rules, then we shouldn't either. Screw all the bleeding heart liberals worrying about collateral damage. Shit happens and people die, just like the 3,000 at the world trade center, the 8 year old boy and two others from Boston, not to mention the other thousands injured. Lets turn the whole mid east into a giant kitty litter box. You can't bomb them back to the stone age, that's only an upgrade. Fuck ALL you muslum bastards.

You're a moron. Where's the linkage between this atrocity and "muslums" (sic).

How will you process the possibility, if proven, that this is domestic terrorism spawned by people who think like you?

[GroobySteven]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It's time to take the gloves off. If they won't play by the rules, then we shouldn't either. Screw all the bleeding heart liberals worrying about collateral damage. Shit happens and people die, just like the 3,000 at the world trade center, the 8 year old boy and two others from Boston, not to mention the other thousands injured. Lets turn the whole mid east into a giant kitty litter box. You can't bomb them back to the stone age, that's only an upgrade. Fuck ALL you muslum bastards.

I'd like to take my gloves off and slap some sense into you. You can't even spell Muslim - you fucking womble.
Irwin - you're 1 post away from a long overdue ban also.

[maxpower]

Irvin seems to forget that the Norwegians have nutcases of their own.

[flabbybody]

How do u Brits feel about London PD canceling your marathon next Sunday due to security concerns ?

[GroobySteven]

How do u Brits feel about London PD canceling your marathon next Sunday due to security concerns ?

I'd be extremely surprised if that happened and unless their was absolute evidence that something was planned, I'd be against it being cancelled. You don't bow to terrorism.

[Dino Velvet]

I'd be extremely surprised if that happened and unless their was absolute evidence that something was planned, I'd be against it being cancelled. You don't bow to terrorism.

I really hope you guys don't also. The UK is definitely a friend of mine as an American. I wish you guys all the luck to have the best marathon you've ever had.

[Prospero]

Latest I heard it is still very much on - though with stepped up security. They say it will be in part a tribute to the dead and wounded on Boston.

For that matter who is to say tomorrow's funeral of Thatcher could not also be a target.

You have to carry on.

[Dino Velvet]

They say it will be in part a tribute to the dead and wounded on Boston.

I bet you guys do a good job too. Thanks in advance.

[GroobySteven]

For that matter who is to say tomorrow's funeral of Thatcher could not also be a target.

You have to carry on.

The list of suspects for this would be endless.

[Prospero]

Do we need ignorant and prejudiced fools like irvin jumping to idiotic conclusions.... for God's sake. No evidence as yet at all of that assertion. . And IF it were a terrorist from a militant islamic group. IF... then that is hardly represenative of most of islam. You'd think by now people would know that. That was the assumption before the oklahoma City Bombing and soon found to be false.

[VictoriaVeil]

I want to share this simple, beautiful image. This is Martin Richard, 8, who was killed in yesterday's attack. His sister and mother are critically injured. His message, "No more hurting people--Peace" is something we should all seek to honor, and remember him by.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/420941_645433782152745_1510563100_n.jpg

[VictoriaVeil]

Here is the sad fact nothing can be done to stop the violent behavior. If and when they catch this douchebag or the group of douchebags someone will find them to be heroes, we can execute them for treason or whatever the crime will be - they become martyrs. Leave them to rot in jail...but due to the high profile of the case might be stuck in solitary confinement and not with general population where these people could(should?) be someone's bitch! People will decide what they did was good but not good enough and start to do a copycat bombing. I wish there was another answer but there isn't...

From George "Sulu" Takei...


I want to share this simple, beautiful image. This is Martin Richard, 8, who was killed in yesterday's attack. His sister and mother are critically injured. His message, "No more hurting people--Peace" is something we should all seek to honor, and remember him by.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/420941_645433782152745_1510563100_n.jpg

[jennylicious]

I doubt very much it will be cancelled (unless something is found within a day of the event). Certainly as I type this, nobody has claimed responsibility yet, and I can't help feel that is indicative of a domestic operation rather than an international one.

If it was a global operation, I've had expected them to have come forward from abroad by now to get their name and cause publicity while speaking of the London marathon to create further fear.

However, that isn't much to be basing a strong opinion on (so I won't). Anything can still come to light in the next few days...

[GroobySteven]

I doubt very much it will be cancelled (unless something is found within a day of the event). Certainly as I type this, nobody has claimed responsibility yet, and I can't help feel that is indicative of a domestic operation rather than an international one.

Tend to agree. I also think if this was a larger terrorist organization it would have been more devastating.

[Prospero]

Tend to agree. I also think if this was a larger terrorist organization it would have been more devastating.

I also agree with you.... though there have been some very amateurish attempts at bombings by fools in the UK, so an amateur attack from whatever source cannot be wholly ruled out.

[Dino Velvet]

And IF it were a terrorist from a militant islamic group. IF... then that is hardly represenative of most of islam. You'd think by now people would know that. That was the assumption before the oklahoma City Bombing and soon found to be false.

Agreed. Too early to assume anything whether Militant Islam or White Supremacists. Neither would be a fair representation of Muslims or Christians.

[Prospero]

But most white supremacist groups don't claim Christian inspiration as far as I am aware? They are political - with racist underpinnings.

[Dino Velvet]

But most white supremacist groups don't claim Christian inspiration as far as I am aware? They are political - with racist underpinnings.

Many do. They use The Bible for their own purpose.

[luvs2lick1385]

Bring it on Seanchai and Robert Louis too. So my spelling of muslim was a typo....One question for both of you. How many times did you have run down 78 floors of a skyscraper because muslim scum flew a jet into your building. I couldn't bullshit about something like this but I work on 78 floor of One World Trade Center. Thank god I got out but i lost many friends and associates that day. So if I'm a bit bitter about muslims so be it, I earned that right. I never met a catholic, protestant or any other religion hate me because I'm a Jew, just problems with muslims so to hell with them.

[Prospero]

Well luv2lick.... you have every reason if you were in the WTC to feel anger and distrust. I'll not even begin to try and take that away from you.

But demonising a whole religion because of the actions of a radical element is plain wrong. We've seen - you have seen - what can happen when a race or religion or culture is demonised by wider society. History has shown us what can happen. The mass graves and barbed wire reminders of eastern Europe are evidence of what can happen.

Yesterday amid the anger of the the immediate aftermath of the bombs one brave soul, from the risky location of his office at Fox, tweeted to the world that "All Muslims should be killed. " His name was not Goebbels. But it might as well have been.

Oh now ~I've just read you angry little post. Nuke the Middle east is the underscore... that's a reasonable response isn't it. if I am a bleeding heart Liberal, what label would you choose for yourself?

[GroobySteven]

Bring it on Seanchai and Robert Louis too. So my spelling of muslim was a typo....One question for both of you. How many times did you have run down 78 floors of a skyscraper because muslim scum flew a jet into your building. I couldn't bullshit about something like this but I work on 78 floor of One World Trade Center. Thank god I got out but i lost many friends and associates that day. So if I'm a bit bitter about muslims so be it, I earned that right. I never met a catholic, protestant or any other religion hate me because I'm a Jew, just problems with muslims so to hell with them.
What were you doing on the 78th floor of the WTC?

I'm sure if I'd had a similar experience I wouldn't be too fond of them either but I don't think they were after you specifically, because you're a Jew. You didn't "earn" any right at all - that's a pretty strange way to look at things, how did you "earn" anything?

However, by that thinking, anyone who survived the Oklahoma bombings would blame it on American extremists and hate all other Americans.

[BellaBellucci]

I'd be extremely surprised if that happened and unless their was absolute evidence that something was planned, I'd be against it being cancelled. You don't bow to terrorism.

^ This.

~BB~

[Prospero]

What were you doing on the 78th floor of the WTC?

I'm sure if I'd had a similar experience I wouldn't be too fond of them either but I don't think they were after you specifically, because you're a Jew. You didn't "earn" any right at all - that's a pretty strange way to look at things, how did you "earn" anything?

However, by that thinking, anyone who survived the Oklahoma bombings would blame it on American extremists and hate all other Americans.

I agree

[luvs2lick1385]

What were you doing on the 78th floor of the WTC?

I'm sure if I'd had a similar experience I wouldn't be too fond of them either but I don't think they were after you specifically, because you're a Jew. You didn't "earn" any right at all - that's a pretty strange way to look at things, how did you "earn" anything?

However, by that thinking, anyone who survived the Oklahoma bombings would blame it on American extremists and hate all other Americans.


I was I.T. manager for a brokerage house. I worked there for 6 years. I wasn't there for the first bombing. I'm done with this topic. I get too upset and it brings back too many bad memories. I was so affected by the Boston bombings I had to take the next couple of days off from work. I have an appointment with my therapist this evening to help me sort this all out. Unless you have walked in my shoes, you couldn't begin to understand how I feel or what I am going through. I relive 9/11 everyday of my life. some days are better than some but it's something I'll have to deal with for the rest of my life.

[GroobySteven]

I was I.T. manager for a brokerage house. I worked there for 6 years. I wasn't there for the first bombing. I'm done with this topic. I get too upset and it brings back too many bad memories. I was so affected by the Boston bombings I had to take the next couple of days off from work. I have an appointment with my therapist this evening to help me sort this all out. Unless you have walked in my shoes, you couldn't begin to understand how I feel or what I am going through. I relive 9/11 everyday of my life. some days are better than some but it's something I'll have to deal with for the rest of my life.

Then with all respect intended, you really, really shouldn't be coming on boards like this or practically any social networks where you're going to have differing points of views, to quell those demons - or at the very least, avoid these topics and look at some tranny porn. While emotions will run strong and I'm confident everybody on this board condemns whomever done this act of terrorism, racial attacks, asking for countries to be bombed or bringing up your own race, can only lead to rebuttals.

This thread shouldn't have turned political or racial until more is known.

[Dino Velvet]

Bring it on Seanchai and Robert Louis too. So my spelling of muslim was a typo....One question for both of you. How many times did you have run down 78 floors of a skyscraper because muslim scum flew a jet into your building. I couldn't bullshit about something like this but I work on 78 floor of One World Trade Center. Thank god I got out but i lost many friends and associates that day. So if I'm a bit bitter about muslims so be it, I earned that right. I never met a catholic, protestant or any other religion hate me because I'm a Jew, just problems with muslims so to hell with them.

I have much sympathy for your specific situation and also loathe those who attacked our country on 9/11. I am the last person here many would call a bleeding heart liberal too. But to scapegoat a religion for the acts of a few would be wrong unless you disagree. I fall short occasionally myself but am trying to improve.

[eccentricBlue]

In lick's defense, PTSD and it's effects are real. At the same time 9/11 was carried out by an organization with specific beliefs, goals, and intentions. To deny ourselves of those facts is a disservice to our own safety.

We may not agree on everything on this forum, however I believe that we are all on the same side. I'm sure nobody here is a closet anarchist or otherwise evil human being (like those responsible for yesterday).

Yesterday's attack should be a reminder to everyone that we are still at war.
I hate to say it, but it is true.

[GroobySteven]

Yesterday's attack should be a reminder to everyone that we are still at war.
I hate to say it, but it is true.

At war with whom?

[eccentricBlue]

At war with whom?

Those who target civilians and hide among the masses. The cowards who send brainwashed youth out to martyr themselves, and the countries hiding in the shadows willing to lend aid and resources because they despise our free society.

[EvaCassini]

Sorry , just noticed something off topic...DINO - is your signature Dog Soldiers? Cuz thats awesome :)

There's no war. Just a stupid conflict. If you want to know more about a real war, go speak with a Vet from WW2, Cold War, and Korean War.

The bombings appear to be something more like a Tim McVeigh incident, than some stupid mysterious terrorist cell.

[Dino Velvet]

Sorry , just noticed something off topic...DINO - is your signature Dog Soldiers? Cuz thats awesome :)

Thanks. My awesome sig is from one of the lesser awesome Howling sequels. Dog Soldiers is great though.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/The_howling_reborn_cover.jpg

[GroobySteven]

Sorry , just noticed something off topic...DINO - is your signature Dog Soldiers? Cuz thats awesome :)



The guy who directed Dog Soldiers was in the class above me at school. It was shot a few miles from here and has some Geordie actors.

[Dino Velvet]

The guy who directed Dog Soldiers was in the class above me at school. It was shot a few miles from here and has some Geordie actors.

You like that one too, huh? Recognize the terrain and everything.

[eccentricBlue]

Sorry , just noticed something off topic...DINO - is your signature Dog Soldiers? Cuz thats awesome :)

There's no war. Just a stupid conflict. If you want to know more about a real war, go speak with a Vet from WW2, Cold War, and Korean War.

The bombings appear to be something more like a Tim McVeigh incident, than some stupid mysterious terrorist cell.

Try telling that to one of our soldiers overseas. Global organizations have declared Holy War against us so i cant imagine not taking them seriously after what they have proven what they are capable of. I'm not trying to start any arguments. Yesterday's attack had the trademarks of a terrorist attack, and it seemed pretty sophisticated for just one person to be responsible. However that's just my opinion.

[EvaCassini]

The guy who directed Dog Soldiers was in the class above me at school. It was shot a few miles from here and has some Geordie actors.

Holy shit thats awesome!!! That movie is great...beats alot of wimpy werewolf fliks nowadays

[EvaCassini]

Try telling that to one of our soldiers overseas. Global organizations have declared Holy War against us so i cant imagine not taking them seriously after what they have proven what they are capable of. I'm not trying to start any arguments. Yesterday's attack had the trademarks of a terrorist attack, and it seemed pretty sophisticated for just one person to be responsible. However that's just my opinion.

There are no trademarks...I was a Gunners Mate in the Navy over around Korea/Russia/China, I am pretty sure I can tell what attacks seem like. I have seen some shit, and the Boston bombings...look, taste, and sound like a domestic attack. Never said just one person...Mcveigh = domestic. Anyone can make a bomb and detenators and with a bit of knowledge (either military, like McVeigh OR Fuckin google) , they can easily rig it for proximity or timed.

[Prospero]

Eva - really lovely as that picture of you is, shouldn't it be posted in a different strand. This thread is all about the killings and maimings of innocent people in Boston. Just saying....

[EvaCassini]

i was in ref to Seanchai post. Plus i gave my say about the thread's main topic.

[Prospero]

Those who target civilians and hide among the masses. The cowards who send brainwashed youth out to martyr themselves, and the countries hiding in the shadows willing to lend aid and resources because they despise our free society.

Er...not until it is proven Eccentic Blue.

I do not condone in any way those attacks either. The culprit/s sould be captured, put on trial and if guilty convicted. But there is NO PROOF right now that it was the people you and others are fingering. No evidence. Just a gut reaction from you. Which is tantamunt to the feelings that prompted KKK members to lynch black people a few decades ago.

[eccentricBlue]

What was yesterday if it wasn't an attack? Was it a misunderstanding? Was it a starter gun malfunction? I respect your service at sea, however it doesn't matter if it was 1 person, or 100. It was still an attack.

[eccentricBlue]

Er...not until it is proven Eccentic Blue.

If I have to prove that global organizations have declared war against us than I'm just wasting my time.

[EvaCassini]

Are you retarded?!?!!? I never said that it was not an attack.

[EvaCassini]

I smell a TROLL!

[Ben]

The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/the-boston-marathon-bombing-keep-calm-and-carry-on/275014/

[robertlouis]

A lot of angry water has flowed under the bridge since I posted nine hours ago. Firstly, when I responded to lick's initial post, I was taking it as it read and replying to what seemed on the face of it to be an extremely intemperate and illogical reaction to the bombings. I don't apologise for that first response but I do sincerely apologise for anything I said which may have inadvertently set off his demons, and I hope he receives whatever counselling and support he needs.

As to continuing speculation and the desperate desire to pin blame, it's clear that, some 36 hours later, the investigating authorities are no nearer to identifying a culprit, or, at the very least, they don't yet feel sufficiently confident in the available evidence to do so.

And the crazy conspiracy theories continue too. Give it a rest, if only for the sake of common decency.

[Ben]

A lot of angry water has flowed under the bridge since I posted nine hours ago. Firstly, when I responded to lick's initial post, I was taking it as it read and replying to what seemed on the face of it to be an extremely intemperate and illogical reaction to the bombings. I don't apologise for that first response but I do sincerely apologise for anything I said which may have inadvertently set off his demons, and I hope he receives whatever counselling and support he needs.

As to continuing speculation and the desperate desire to pin blame, it's clear that, some 36 hours later, the investigating authorities are no nearer to identifying a culprit, or, at the very least, they don't yet feel sufficiently confident in the available evidence to do so.

And the crazy conspiracy theories continue too. Give it a rest, if only for the sake of common decency.

We have to be rational. Easier said than done. I mean, we don't know anything. We can't be given to racist vitriol or complete irrationality.
Obama described it as an act of terror. And not terrorism. Because, again, at present we don't know who the perpetrator or perpetrators are.
I mean, it could be some crazed person. Acting alone. We just don't know.
One of the first stories to emerge was that a Saudi was in custody. Which was completely false.
Again, we need to be and stay rational.... Difficult to do when we're a country driven by irrational urges -- :(

[fivekatz]

We have to be rational. Easier said than done. I mean, we don't know anything. We can't be given to racist vitriol or complete irrationality.
Obama described it as an act of terror. And not terrorism. Because, again, at present we don't know who the perpetrator or perpetrators are.
I mean, it could be some crazed person. Acting alone. We just don't know.
One of the first stories to emerge was that a Saudi was in custody. Which was completely false.
Again, we need to be and stay rational.... Difficult to do when we're a country driven by irrational urges -- :(It is also important to remember that acts of terror are not the sole providence of radical Islam. The second worst act of terror on US soil was committed by right wing-nuts. And I don't know what else one could call the rampant lynching and church bombings of the 60 years of the 20th Century. And it was not Islamic radicals but rather white, bigoted Christian extremists responsible for that rein of terror.

Ordinarily organized terrorist groups claim ownership of their deeds rather quickly and the silence here is notable, while not conclusive.

We all need to let the investigation take its course. Personally I have faith that the White House is not busy trying to spin this into a reason to have a war with a nation state but rather has their eye on the ball. There will be justice I pray.

At any rate a freaking shame that the innocent are used by any group or individual to make statements of displeasure.

[robertlouis]

We all need to let the investigation take its course.

A typically thoughtful and reflective post, katz.

I've quoted that one sentence because it contains all that needs to be said for the moment. Peace.

[natina]

Westboro: We'll Picket Boston Marathon Funerals

Westboro Baptist Church blames gay marriage for bombings

Newser) – We'd call this a new low for Westboro Baptist Church, but these are the people who threatened to picket Sandy Hook. Now they say they'll picket the funerals of the Boston Marathon victims, the Raw Story reports. The church's reasoning, per a press release: "GOD SENT THE BOMBS! How many more terrifying ways will you have the LORD injure and kill your fellow countrymen because you insist on nation-dooming filthy [gay slur] marriage?! ... Massachusetts invited this special wrath from God Almighty when it was the FIRST STATE to pass same-sex marriage."

A We the People petition calls for the WBC to be banned from the funerals, and a Twitter account associated with the Anonymous hacktivists threatens the church: "Dear @WBCSays, I wouldn't f--k with the people of Boston when they're mad. #BostonBeatDown." It was Anonymous that thwarted the Westboro's Sandy Hook plan, the Raw Story notes; the hackers publicized the hotel where church members were staying, and a human shield was formed to block them. Yesterday, the New York Post ran a piece by Libby Phelps Alvarez, a granddaughter of WBC founder Fred Phelps who left the church—and now fights for gay rights.


http://www.newser.com/story/166324/westboro-well-picket-boston-marathon-funerals.html



Westboro Baptist Church thanks God for Boston bombs, vows funeral protests


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/16/westboro-baptist-church-thanks-god-boston-bombs-vo/

Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/baptist/) said that the bombings during the Boston Marathon (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/boston-marathon/) were sent by God as punishment for same-sex marriage and that members would definitely show up at funerals to protest.





It is also important to remember that acts of terror are not the sole providence of radical Islam. The second worst act of terror on US soil was committed by right wing-nuts. And I don't know what else one could call the rampant lynching and church bombings of the 60 years of the 20th Century. And it was not Islamic radicals but rather white, bigoted Christian extremists responsible for that rein of terror.

Ordinarily organized terrorist groups claim ownership of their deeds rather quickly and the silence here is notable, while not conclusive.

We all need to let the investigation take its course. Personally I have faith that the White House is not busy trying to spin this into a reason to have a war with a nation state but rather has their eye on the ball. There will be justice I pray.

At any rate a freaking shame that the innocent are used by any group or individual to make statements of displeasure.

[fivekatz]

Having grown up in Boston I would say it is very good advice to WBC not to "fuck" with pissed off Bostonians.

Where these people come up with God was punishing New Orleans for all the gays and booze with Katrina or now the Marathon bombing because Mass allows same sex marriage?

Sometimes these people should just keep it to themselves IMHO. It was a horrific thing done there yesterday, designed by the nature of the bombs and their placement, the intention was to cripple and kill innocent people enjoying a regional holiday celebrating a tradition of freedom. I don't see God's hand in that and have a hard time thinking anyone who tries to parlay the events into a social/political statement of their choosing has God in their hearts.

The very freedom that was being celebrated yesterday in Boston during Patriot's Day allows wing nuts like the WBC to be the freaking clowns they are, but freedom of speech does not mean that the speech is sane.

[Jimmy W]

fivekatz - ignore the westboro baptist church - they thrive on any hair trigger response. Theyre professionals at getting you pissed off and once youre in their net you succumb to their carefully choreographed nonsense. I lived in Boston a long time as a Met fan including 1986 so I know their wrath. Dont waste it on these publicity whores.

[BellaBellucci]

Eva - really lovely as that picture of you is, shouldn't it be posted in a different strand. This thread is all about the killings and maimings of innocent people in Boston. Just saying....

That's just what shamelessness and disproportional attention does to people.

Don't fuck with Boston! 617 FAH EVAH!

~BB~

[BiBoyinBeantown]

My God what is happening? The nutcase Muslims are at it again!!!:hide-1:

It's irresponsible to speculate as to who might have done this until there's actually some evidence. There are plenty of nutcase terrorists that are homegrown right here in the USA, too. Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, for two.

[BiBoyinBeantown]

I really hope you guys don't also. The UK is definitely a friend of mine as an American. I wish you guys all the luck to have the best marathon you've ever had.

The best revenge against terrorism is to keep right on living your life as before, to refuse to be cowed or intimidated.

[Prospero]

London's Marathon will take place this weekend - with runners being invited to don black ribbons in respect of the dead and wounded of Boston. There'll also be a brief silent salute to the victims.

[alexjaneTS]

Shocked and deeply saddened. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

[EvaCassini]

That's just what shamelessness and disproportional attention does to people.

Don't fuck with Boston! 617 FAH EVAH!

~BB~

Thanks for bringing that up again...I told the mod it was in response to seanchai's post and nothing was said about it after...it was left alone....so leave it alone.

[Tiffany Starr]

I hate it when bombings anywhere happen let alone in my home town. I am just glad my family and friends are ok. The people of boston are strong people. they will stand together and get through this.

[Dino Velvet]

The best revenge against terrorism is to keep right on living your life as before, to refuse to be cowed or intimidated.

I totally agree. The object of terrorism is to inflict terror. When you refuse to be terrorized you take back control of your life. I saw a TV report of a gathering in Santa Monica. They're having a small mini-marathon to honor the dead and the grieving and a big fuck you to the bomber(s).

[TempestTS]

Food for thought...

Just when the gun control issue comes to a head and people are protesting Police Paramilitary build up and an unprecedented reduction of human rights in this country along with massive surveillance and personal privacy evaporating daily - we have public Bombings and Poison Mail?



Anyone Know what a False Flag Operation is? Every Major War in History has started with one....



Not saying our current government is responsible - but somebody is responsible for these horrible acts and its not always who they want you to think it is.


Just encouraging everyone to consider not only the acts but what reaction is being obtained and who benefits from that reaction


- Think for yourselves

- QUESTION EVERYTHING


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag)
False flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag)

[yodajazz]

In lick's defense, PTSD and it's effects are real. At the same time 9/11 was carried out by an organization with specific beliefs, goals, and intentions. To deny ourselves of those facts is a disservice to our own safety.

We may not agree on everything on this forum, however I believe that we are all on the same side. I'm sure nobody here is a closet anarchist or otherwise evil human being (like those responsible for yesterday).

Yesterday's attack should be a reminder to everyone that we are still at war.
I hate to say it, but it is true.

The real war today, is one of ideas, of how we solve human issues. The simplest solution, is for us to want for other people, what we want for ourselves. It is to treat others, how we wish to be treated. Terrorism is an attemp to make others live in fear. And fear makes people make irrational decisions. So part of the solution is to act rationally, and seek the truth. Besides finding the individuals responsible for this, maybe there will be a deepre reflection about the use of bombs, in general to solve human issues. A 'smart bomb' is still a bomb.


The best revenge against terrorism is to keep right on living your life as before, to refuse to be cowed or intimidated.

[Stavros]

Food for thought...

Anyone Know what a False Flag Operation is? Every Major War in History has started with one....

- Think for yourselves

- QUESTION EVERYTHING
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag)
False flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag)

Even your pathetic link can't find a false flag excuse for the First World War, a pretty major war in history, unless you think it wasn't really the Archduke Ferdinand who was assassinated in Sarajevo, but a stand-in called Dave, while the real Archduke slipped away to spend the rest of his life growing orchids in Linz.

Your Wikipedia link also has this laughable entry:

Operation Ajax

The replacement of Iran' Anglo-Persian Oil Company with five American oil companies and the 1953 Iranian Coup d'Etat was the consequence of the U.S. and British-orchestrated false flag operation...Operation Ajax used political intrigue, and agreements with the Qashqai people and tribal leaders to depose the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mohammed Mosadedegh. Information regarding the Central Intelligence Agency -sponsored Coup d'Etat has been largely declassified and is available in the CIA archives.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag#cite_note-12)


The Anglo-Persian Oil Company changed its name to the Anglo-Iranian Oil Co in 1935, and was 100% British owned, not Iranian; the coup of 1953 which was co-ordinated by the US and the British led to the formation of the Iranian Oil Participants, not 5 American companies but a consortium made up of British, American and French companies -the author even has the audacity to cite an excellent book by Stephen Kinzer (note 12) which does a better job than this amateurish Wikipedia rubbish.

Question everything!! Indeed, especially Wikipedia!

[TempestTS]

[QUOTE=Stavros;1309514]Even your pathetic link can't find a false flag excuse for the First World War, a pretty major war in history, unless you think it wasn't really the Archduke Ferdinand who was assassinated in Sarajevo, but a stand-in called Dave, while the real Archduke slipped away to spend the rest of his life growing orchids in Linz.
QUOTE]

I merely gave food for thought - Thinking is a good thing IMHO... yet this somehow got under your skin... it was not intended.

The Wiki link was provided for a general definition of what a false flag operation was. Many people actually have never heard the term. Sorry I didnt happen to have my copy of Websters handy - this apparently has offended you in some way...

False Flag operations by their nature are secretive and often can never be completely proven or dis-proven so there will be historical speculation about any of them - nice that you noticed this.

As for WWI - I urge you to read up on the circumstances around which America entered the war - specificlly the ocean liner Lusitania which may (or may not) have been part of a false flag operation - depending on your perspective, that is... History professors have debated this at some length - if you have the answer be sure to call them.

if Wiki offends you so much I urge you not to click on any of their links - its not a requirement to use the internet at any rate...

Lastly I find what has occurred in Boston a horrible act and tragic needless loss of life and harm.

[Prospero]

A man has just been arrested. He was seen on a security camera putting a back pack on the ground at the scene of the second blast and then walking away. No further details yet.... report now amended. Man seen on video but not yet arrested.

http://www.nbcnews.com/

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=Stavros;1309514]Even your pathetic link can't find a false flag excuse for the First World War, a pretty major war in history, unless you think it wasn't really the Archduke Ferdinand who was assassinated in Sarajevo, but a stand-in called Dave, while the real Archduke slipped away to spend the rest of his life growing orchids in Linz.
QUOTE]

I merely gave food for thought - Thinking is a good thing IMHO... yet this somehow got under your skin... it was not intended.

The Wiki link was provided for a general definition of what a false flag operation was. Many people actually have never heard the term. Sorry I didnt happen to have my copy of Websters handy - this apparently has offended you in some way...

False Flag operations by their nature are secretive and often can never be completely proven or dis-proven so there will be historical speculation about any of them - nice that you noticed this.

As for WWI - I urge you to read up on the circumstances around which America entered the war - specificlly the ocean liner Lusitania which may (or may not) have been part of a false flag operation - depending on your perspective, that is... History professors have debated this at some length - if you have the answer be sure to call them.

if Wiki offends you so much I urge you not to click on any of their links - its not a requirement to use the internet at any rate...

Lastly I find what has occurred in Boston a horrible act and tragic needless loss of life and harm.

Tempest I was alerted by your 'false flag' idea because too often Americans see a conspiracy where there isn't one. The USA entered the First World War in April 1917 long after the attack on the Lusitania in 1915 -Germany had provoked the US with its support for the Mexicans in their conflict with the USA following the revolution of 1910, but it was Germany's 'sink on sight' policy in the Atlantic in January 1917 that led the USA to break diplomatic relations with Germany, following which 8 US vessels were sunk that finally brought Congress round to Wilson's thinking -before that Robert La Follette had prevented Congress from making a decision through filibustering tactics. It was also the case that the Europeans had borrowed money from the US that Americans were afraid would not be paid back, and Wilson had ambitions to take the US into the international arena, which was opposed by the man who eventually defeated him in the elections of 1920, the isolationist Warren Harding.

Nothing personal, just some adjustment's to some unfounded ideas about the origins of wars. And it recedes into history compared to the grim reality on the streets of Boston.

[maxpower]

A federal courthouse in Boston was just evacuated. No reports as to the reason yet.

[robertlouis]

the isolationist Warren Harding.



Arguably the worst US president of the 20th century, in a close contest with Coolidge and Hoover.

Dubya may have been elected in 1999 but only took office in January 2000.

All GOP. May or may not be a coincidence....

[Ben]

There are not just right-wing fanatics. There are also left-wing fanatics. Remember the Weather Underground?
So, regardless of one's political stripes, as it were, there are demented people on both sides of the political aisle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cxgeQkK-o

[TempestTS]

[quote=TempestTS;1309527]

Tempest I was alerted by your 'false flag' idea because too often Americans see a conspiracy where there isn't one. The USA entered the First World War in April 1917 long after the attack on the Lusitania in 1915 -Germany had provoked the US with its support for the Mexicans in their conflict with the USA following the revolution of 1910, but it was Germany's 'sink on sight' policy in the Atlantic in January 1917 that led the USA to break diplomatic relations with Germany, following which 8 US vessels were sunk that finally brought Congress round to Wilson's thinking -before that Robert La Follette had prevented Congress from making a decision through filibustering tactics. It was also the case that the Europeans had borrowed money from the US that Americans were afraid would not be paid back, and Wilson had ambitions to take the US into the international arena, which was opposed by the man who eventually defeated him in the elections of 1920, the isolationist Warren Harding.

Nothing personal, just some adjustment's to some unfounded ideas about the origins of wars. And it recedes into history compared to the grim reality on the streets of Boston.

"False Flag" was not my idea -

My Idea was that this tragedy coupled with a possibly unrelated but yet very interestingly timed "envelope threat" may have more to it than meets the eye and merits closer attention and thought about what might be really going on.

I dont agree with your arguments but apparently I have made you (and perhaps a few others) Think and that is more than enough.

[natina]

Authorities checking cellphone records, seek man seen leaving bag near Boston blast site


Investigators in the Boston Marathon case are trying to identify a young man seen on video near the second blast site -- talking on his cellphone before setting down a black bag and dashing away, law enforcement officials told NBC News.

As authorities worked to find more images of the man in the crowd and began examining cellphone records in an effort to put a name to his face, they abruptly canceled an evening briefing on the probe.

Two days after the double bombing killed three people and injured 176 near the race finish line — and on the eve of President Obama’s visit to Boston for a prayer service — the investigation appeared to be making progress.

Law enforcement officials said the man was seen from several different angles at the site of the second blast. One official said a Lord & Taylor department store surveillance camera captured the image.
The FBI has distributed to federal law enforcement agencies a surveillance photo of a man wearing a baseball cap at the scene of the Boston Marathon bombing, asking officials if they have any information about his identity, a senior federal law enforcement official who has seen the photo told NBC News late Wednesday.
The official who has seen the photo described it as showing a man about six feet tall wearing “a white or off white baseball cap.” The FBI was asking for help identifying the individual, the official said.
Federal law enforcement officials have said they have made “significant” progress in the investigation by identifying potential witnesses or suspects who appear in surveillance photos at the site of the second bomb explosion.
But some officials have cautioned they do not yet know the identity of the individuals they are looking for. Asked tonight if investigators knew the identity of the individual identified in surveillance photos, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick said “no.” He declined further comment.
An expected press briefing on Wednesday afternoon was postponed and ultimately canceled, but the FBI and other agencies did shoot down afternoon reports from several media outlets that an arrest had been made.
“Despite reports to the contrary there has not been an arrest in the Marathon attack,” Boston police said from an official Twitter account.
The FBI added: “Since these stories often have unintended consequences, we ask the media, particularly at this early stage of the investigation, to exercise caution and attempt to verify information through appropriate official channels before reporting.”

In another development, the Boston federal courthouse was evacuated Wednesday afternoon. Employees said they were told that a “code red” was in effect and were ordered to leave. The reason was unclear.
Investigators were reviewing more video and photos in an effort to track the movements of the man with the bag before and after the bombing. Records of cellphone calls made in the area at that time could give them another clue to his identity.
Forensic work at the scene has already helped authorities identify major components of the bombs.
They were housed in metal containers — at least one a kitchen pressure cooker — and studded with metal, including fine nails or brads, to make the devices more lethal.



Authorities are focusing on a video of a man putting a bag down at the location of the bombing at the Boston Marathon.

Sources involved in the investigation said that the pressure-cooker device was effectively a “homemade claymore,” a directional explosive that appeared to include a triggering mechanism using a battery pack and a circuit board. Both of those elements were recovered at the scene.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/16/17784776-authorities-checking-cellphone-records-seek-man-seen-leaving-bag-near-boston-blast-site?lite


this suspect below was cleared now a new suspect police are trying to identify story above


Authorities ID person of interest as Saudi national in marathon bombings, under guard at Boston hospital (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO)

Police clear the area at the finish line of the 2013 Boston Marathon.

Investigators have a suspect — a Saudi Arabian national — in the horrific Boston Marathon bombings, The Post has learned.
Law enforcement sources said the 20-year-old suspect was under guard at an undisclosed Boston hospital.
Fox News reported that the suspect suffered severe burns.
It was not immediately clear why the man was hospitalized and whether he was injured in the attack or in his apprehension.
The man was caught less than two hours after the 2:50 p.m. bombing on the finish line of the race, in the heart of Boston.


In addition, Boston police have surveillance video of someone bringing multiple backpacks to the blast site, according to CBS News.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO

[Prospero]

The so called Saudi suspect had been cleared even before Natina posted it the first time. He was in fact an innocent bystander injured in the blast. But such is the hysteria that any man of vaguely dark and Arab appearance will become the object of speculation these days.

[natina]

Suspicions in Boston Attack Turn to Man Seen in Videos



BOSTON — In the first major break in the hunt for the Boston Marathon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/b/boston_marathon/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) bomber, F.B.I. personnel on Wednesday found security video clips that showed a man they believe may have played a role in planting the explosives that killed three people and injured more than 170 on Monday.


The videos also showed at least a handful of others whom the authorities want to question, either because of what they appear to be doing in the video or their proximity to the blasts, a senior law enforcement official said.
The official said the authorities were trying to boil down the number of people of interest in the videos and would then decide whether to ask the public’s help in locating them.
“It’s a crowd, there are a lot of different angles. It is not like some television-produced video — there’s a lot that isn’t clear,” said the official. “But most interpretations support the notion that one man is seen dropping a bag.”
The official added: “There are several videos with people in them, and we’re looking to talk to more than one guy. It’s still very squishy but there are a lot of interesting people” the authorities want to talk to.
As word spread of the videos Wednesday afternoon, officials emphatically denied a flurry of news reports that they had made an arrest. The F.B.I. was still “looking for a name to put with a face in a video,” one law enforcement official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
Those denials did not deter hundreds of office workers and reporters from gathering outside the federal courthouse, where they anticipated that a suspect would be arraigned. A midday bomb scare caused the courthouse to be evacuated and created confusion as the crowds were moved far away from the building and it was ringed by police vehicles. By nightfall, no arrest had taken place.
At Copley Square, the crime scene, several blocks long, remained barricaded as investigators in white hazmat suits scoured the buildings and roofs for pieces of evidence from the two explosions, which occurred at 2:50 Monday afternoon near the finish line of the marathon.
Teams of investigators, including more than 1,000 F.B.I. agents, were tracking possible leads developed on Tuesday after they had discovered remnants from the two bombs.
Those remnants included: parts of one or two kitchen pressure cookers that had evidently been packed with nails, ball bearings and black powder and used as explosive devices; the torn remains of a dark nylon backpack or duffel bag in which one of the bombs had been hidden; and a circuit board, wires and other parts from timing devices. Investigators hoped to track the items back to where they were sold and compile a list of names or descriptions of the buyers.
A piece of the lid of one of the pressure cookers was found on a rooftop near the blast, a law enforcement official said on Wednesday — giving a sense of the tremendous force of the explosion.
The possible break in the case came as investigators scrutinized scores of videos and photographs from surveillance cameras from nearby businesses, as well as from marathon spectators’ smartphones and television crews that were filming the Boston Marathon when the deadly blasts went off. So far, no one has taken responsibility for the explosions.
As the investigation went into a third day, there were signs of jitters around the nation, which was on high alert. New York City officials said there had been an increase in reports of suspicious packages. In Oklahoma City, the scene of a devastating bombing in 1995, City Hall was briefly evacuated Wednesday morning as the authorities examined a stolen rental truck that was parked outside. (There was no bomb, officials there said.)
In Washington, parts of two Senate office buildings were shut down as officials investigated reports of suspicious letters or packages, and the Secret Service said that a letter addressed to President Obama contained a suspicious substance. It was intercepted at a screening facility outside the White House, and federal agents arrested a suspect on Wednesday evening.

If investigators in Boston can find a facial image of sufficient quality from the videos, it could provide a powerful lead.
The F.B.I. has been working for several years to create a facial recognition program, and the video of a suspect or suspects could be matched against the bureau’s database of mug shots of about 12 million people who have been arrested, officials said.
If there is no match, investigators can hunt for the suspects’ images in the voluminous videos and photographs from the bombing site that were submitted by members of the public in response to an F.B.I. appeal. That is still a technically difficult task, because the software is most accurate with head-on facial images and can be thrown off even by a smile, specialists said on Wednesday.
Still, “it’s vastly superior to just watching the video,” said Al Shipp, chief executive of 3VR Inc., a company that sells video analytics software. “You can sort through years of video in seconds. That’s the game changer.”
By piecing together more images of suspects and their movements, the F.B.I. might be able to come up with a name. Even without a name, Mr. Shipp said, investigators could program multiple cameras at airports and elsewhere with the suspects’ images so the cameras would send an alert to them if someone resembling a suspect passed by.
While investigators have focused on the images of the possible suspect, they are continuing to pursue a broad range of other avenues, one law enforcement official said.
“We try not to get tunnel vision about it,” the official said, adding, “we’re working a lot of other possibilities.”
The process, the official said, can be a painstaking one. Once an image like that of a potential suspect is identified, investigators and analysts will seek to track the person in the image, both back in time and forward, seeking other images — photographs and videos — from other sources, looking for different angles and lighting.

Appealing to the public would most likely put more pressure on the suspect. “He’d get nervous and turn himself in, or he could go to ground,” said Philip Mudd, a former senior C.I.A. and F.B.I. official. “But having several million people looking for him outweighs any downside.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/us/boston-investigation-moves-into-third-day.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig&_r=0

[buttslinger]

I saw a Police Car blow up in Boston, but at that time I was on the "terrorist" side. (Student Demonstration).

My guess is this prick has left the country, this may be the only time every American agrees to spending a few billion extra tax dollars. Just to see his ass fry.

[Prospero]

FBI just released this picture of two suspects....

[tsadriana]

FBI just released this picture of two suspects....
suspects?they know their nationality or only the pic posted?

[BellaBellucci]

These guys are together but looking in completely different directions in more than a few photos. In one, they're even standing on opposite sides of someone who looks like a perfect stranger to them. That's scouting behavior. It's not open-and-shut evidence, but it's certainly a reason to look in their direction.

Gods help them if they're guilty. Boston will come down on them with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.

~BB~

[Ben]

Comfort Dogs Arrive In Boston To Help With The Healing:

http://www.businessinsider.com/comfort-dogs-arrive-in-boston-after-bombing-2013-4

[robertlouis]

Gods help them if they're guilty. Boston will come down on them with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.

~BB~

Maybe, BB. But let's hope that whoever is charged receives the full and unbiased treatment of the justice system. We defeat terrorism, whether domestically or internationally inspired, by demonstrating our humanity, not by descending to their levels of savagery.

[Dino Velvet]

Gods help them if they're guilty. Boston will come down on them with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.

~BB~

Boil them in oil. Fitting.

[natina]

HD PICTURES OF SUSPECTS in Boston bombing

they might have been cleared

look at the HD pictures of these suspects

http://i.imgur.com/AmMP3z4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bXKKC9Dh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bXKKC9Dh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jn82qarh.jpg


backpack/bag gone now!
http://i.imgur.com/RdUh9PNh.jpg

all HD photos below

http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA

http://i.imgur.com/Jn82qarh.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/bXKKC9Dh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bXKKC9Dh.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/AmMP3z4.jpg

[dderek123]

Release the drones!

[Jonny29]

Maybe, BB. But let's hope that whoever is charged receives the full and unbiased treatment of the justice system. We defeat terrorism, whether domestically or internationally inspired, by demonstrating our humanity, not by descending to their levels of savagery.

How the heck would you know? Of course I don't know that you are wrong, But whether these grossly misguided people were Muslim extremists, ultra right wing"patriots" or a nut job who was pissed that his wanna be girlfriend was denied entry to the marathon, I would doubt that they would stop if we gave them an unbiased trial. Oh a fair trial , never mind America is great. You can try to enlighten me, there is nothing wrong with that, but somehow I feel a second grader thinks the same way and is just as wrong.

[robertlouis]

How the heck would you know? Of course I don't know that you are wrong, But whether these grossly misguided people were Muslim extremists, ultra right wing"patriots" or a nut job who was pissed that his wanna be girlfriend was denied entry to the marathon, I would doubt that they would stop if we gave them an unbiased trial. Oh a fair trial , never mind America is great. You can try to enlighten me, there is nothing wrong with that, but somehow I feel a second grader thinks the same way and is just as wrong.


Of course fanatics don't consider the possible personal consequences of their actions. What I'm saying is that one of the hallmarks of a civilised society is that it dispenses justice in a dispassionate and objective way. To do anything less merely takes you to the level of the fanatic.

What's your alternative? Lynch law? Vigilantes? I'm struggling to work it out.

[dderek123]

Release the drones!

[fivekatz]

Holding onto the American principles of innocent until proven guilt is what is important, not what that constitutional protections would have on future terrorist behavior.

It is important because when we engage in Gitmo style opaque justice we lose just a little bit of the "freedom" so many who will yell for lynching and defend the 2nd Amendment.

"Off with their heads' is of course a natural first feeling but citizenship often comes with the heavy price of always consider due process, i.e. the law. Much of the Patriot ACT was as much an act of cowards as it was a bill conceived to give the executive more power while feeding the fears/anger of the masses.

[robertlouis]

A total fuckwit and a disgrace to America.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs_ZiIs1soY

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEYoxwllFKc

[GroobySteven]

A total fuckwit and a disgrace to America.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs_ZiIs1soY

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEYoxwllFKc


He's completely mental - it will be no surprise when he grabs a gun and takes out a building.

[GroobySteven]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/18/mit-police-officer-hit-gunfire-cambridge-police-dispatcher-says/4UeCClOVeLr8PHLvDa99zK/story.html

Looks like they got them.

[maxpower]

White hat is still at large.

[Prospero]

One bombing suspect now reported to have been "shot dead" the other stillon the loose. This posted at 04.30 Boston time.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/04/gunfire-in-cambridge-and-watertown.html

THE HUNT FOR SUSPECT TWO
Between one and two in the morning, after shooting scenes in two Boston suburbs, a man was reportedly taken into custody. “One marathon suspect has been captured, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation,” the Boston Globe reported on its Web site. “Another remains on the loose in Watertown after a firefight with police.” By four in the morning, there was one important change: the Middlesex County District Attorney released a statement saying that the suspect who was caught had also been shot; he had been taken to a hospital, and he was now “deceased.” They were still chasing the second man.



Ed Davis, the Boston police commissioner, came out to say that “what we are looking for now is a suspect consistent with the description of Suspect No. 2”—“the white-capped individual” whose picture had been released by the F.B.I. in connection with the Boston Marathon bombings. (Davis also tweeted, “White hat suspect at large.”) He showed a security-video image from a 7-Eleven, and said that “several explosive devices were discharged from the car at the police officers.” He called him a terrorist; he told people to be careful.

For hours, there had been no confirmation that this was about the Boston Marathon bombings, as opposed to a campus shooting or a carjacking or something else. There were only guesses, extrapolations from things like sightings of a clutch of F.B.I. agents in Watertown, where there were scores of local officers and a helicopter circling. The caveats were based on knowing that at this moment, with all the fear in the city, something could easily look like what it wasn’t. The one point of agreement was that an M.I.T. police officer was already dead. The university released a statement saying that it was “heartbroken.” A Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority officer had been shot, too, and was in the hospital.

Here is how the narrative of the night began: just after 5 P.M., the F.B.I. released photographs of Suspect One and Suspect Two, men who looked relatively young. Suspect One had on a black baseball cap, and Suspect Two a white one, and the face of Suspect Two, in particular, was clear enough to recognize. He was the one the F.B.I. said had dropped a bag near the marathon finish line, just before one of the blasts. Then, six hours later, M.I.T. issued an alert saying that there was gunfire on campus, at 10:48, near its Building 32: “The area is cordoned off.” In rapid succession, there were reports of injuries and advisories that everyone should stay indoors, an injunction that was in place until just before 2 A.M.

By then, half the world was listening to the Boston police scanner, and many rushed to Watertown, reporting on what they saw by way of Twitter. Every word that could be used to describe a shot or a bang or a minor explosion came into play, mostly framed by confusion. The inventory of items people thought they saw or heard included grenades, pressure cookers, a bomb-squad robot, the screeching tires of getaway cars. There were tweets about a suspect told to take off his clothes—the guess was that it was to see if there were explosives strapped to his body. Just after 3 A.M., CNN broadcast video of a man, stripped and in handcuffs, being led to a police car; the network blurred out some of his nakedness, but his face was visible. (Since he is neither dead or a fugitive, it now seems that he is not one of the suspects.) On television, there was footage of the body of a man in a tracksuit on the ground. As the gunfire stopped, the F.B.I. released more photos, with better images of the suspects on the day of the marathon. It seemed that there was a chase.



The attention was now on Watertown, where the police had reportedly set up a twenty-block perimeter. An alert was sent to residents not to open the doors for anyone but the police, who would be going door to door, CNN reported. We are following the story, looking to unravel what happened tonight, and, just maybe, what happened about four hours into the marathon on Monday.

[maxpower]

The two suspects are brothers, Russian muslim immigrants from Chechnya.



BOSTON (AP) — Tamerlan Tsarnaev practiced martial arts and boxing, even aspiring to fight on the U.S. Olympic team. Dzhozkar Tsarnaev had been on the wrestling team at a prestigious high school and won a scholarship from the city to pursue higher education. Neighbors recalled the ethnic Chechen brothers, living on a quiet street in Cambridge, Mass., riding bikes and skateboards.

Two brothers, one dead, one alive and at large. After hours of only grainy images of two men in baseball caps to go on, a portrait gradually emerged Friday of the men suspected in the Boston Marathon bombing.

The brothers, who came from a Russian region near Chechnya, lived together on Norfolk Street in Cambridge. They had been in the country for about a decade, according to an uncle, Ruslan Tsarni of Montgomery Village, Md.

Less was immediately known about Tamerlan, believed to be 26 when he was killed overnight in a shootout. He was the stockier one identified in video released to the public, wearing a black baseball cap and khaki pants. He was involved in martial arts, and competed in boxing matches. According to a crime website he was once arrested for domestic assault on a girlfriend.

"I don't have a single American friend. I don't understand them." he was quoted as saying in a photo package that appeared in a Boston University student magazine in 2010.

He identified himself as a Muslim and said he did not drink or smoke: "God said no alcohol." He said he hoped to fight for the U.S. Olympic team and become a naturalized American. He said he was studying at Bunker Hill Community College to become an engineer.

Dzhokhar, 19, attended the prestigious Cambridge Rindge and Latin school, participating on the wrestling team. In May 2011, his senior year, he was awarded a $2,500 scholarship from the city to pursue higher education, according to a news release at the time. That scholarship was celebrated with a reception at city hall.

He attended the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth, Mass., university officials said Friday.

The school would not say what he was studying. The father of the suspects, Anzor Tsaraev, told the AP his younger son was "a second-year medical student," though he graduated high school in 2011.

"My son is a true angel ...," he said by telephone from the Russian city of Makhachkala. "He is such an intelligent boy. We expected him to come on holidays here."

Dzhokhar's page on the Russian social networking site Vkontakte says that before moving to the United States, he attended School No. 1 in Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan, a predominantly Muslim republic in Russia's North Caucasus that has become an epicenter of the Islamic insurgency that spilled over from Chechnya. On the site, he describes himself as speaking Chechen as well as English and Russian. His world view is described as "Islam" and he says his personal goal is "career and money."

Tim Kelleher, a wrestling coach for a Boston school that competed in 2010 against Dzhokhar's team, said the young man was a good wrestler, and that he'd never heard him express any political opinions.

"He was a tough, solid kid, just quiet," said Kelleher, now a Boston public school teacher.

Deana Beaulieu, a 20-year-old student at Bunker Hill Community College who lives two blocks away from the suspects' home on Norfolk Street, said she went to high school with Dzhokhar and was friendly with his sister. She hadn't seen him since they graduated in 2011.

Speaking on the corner of Norfolk Street, she said she first met the younger brother in 2006 when she started seventh grade at the Cambridge Community Charter School and visited the family at their second-floor apartment that year. She recalled meeting the parents there.

"He was just a quiet kid," Beaulieu said of Dzhokhar, noting that she doesn't recall his ever expressing any political views. "I thought he was going to branch off to college, and now this is what he's done. ... I don't understand what the hell happened, what set him off like this."

Dzhokhar appeared in the video released by authorities on Thursday, identified as Suspect Number 2, striding down a sidewalk, unnoticed by spectators who were absorbed in the race. He followed Tamerlan by about 10 feet. He wore what appeared to be a gray hoodie under a dark jacket and pants, and a white baseball cap facing backward and pulled down haphazardly.

Tamerlan was wearing khaki pants, a light T-shirt, and a dark jacket. The brim of his baseball cap faced forward, and he may have been wearing sunglasses.

According to the website spotcrime.com, Tamerlan was arrested for domestic violence in July 2009, after assaulting his girlfriend. That report could not be immediately confirmed.

He was an amateur boxer, listed as a competitor in a National Golden Gloves competition in 2009. In a local news article in 2004, someone identified as Tamerlan spoke about his boxing and his views of America.

"I like the USA," Tamerlan was quoted as saying in The Sun of Lowell, Mass. "America has a lot of jobs. That's something Russia doesn't have. You have a chance to make money here if you are willing to work."

The paper quoted Tamerlan's trainer, Gene McCarthy, as saying: "He has a lot of heart. That's the key." It said he loved music, and played the piano and violin.

[flabbybody]

probably not the smartest move robbing a 711 when 20,000 cops are looking for you.

[Quiet Reflections]

probably not the smartest move robbing a 711 when 20,000 cops are looking for you.
It was actually the smartest thing they could have done for the LEO"s just not for them. If they hadn't done it then they might have been in the wind for a few more weeks and hurts many more people. At least this way the remaining guy is burning out and everything he does from here on out isn't a direct attack but just way to distract the cops and put off his inevitable death. The only real issue now is whether or not he kills himself or a bunch of other people in his final stand.

[Dino Velvet]

Just when you thought people on this board were attention whores.

https://twitter.com/J_tsar

http://gawker.com/5995065/is-this-the-boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-twitter-account

https://www.google.com/search?q=J_tsar&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs


I never would have thought that someone that smoked as much weed as Jahar would be on the News for terrorism.

[Prospero]

Excellent pull together of what is presently known about the surviving suspect...Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/who-is-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston/64382/

[nysprod]

A lot of things happening here that don't make sense...according to the NYT, the cops are in a running car chase/gun fight with these guys...one of them is killed and the other one drives the car thru the cops, gets clean away, and now they can't find him.

With the all the LE that's been mobilized? Really?

[Stavros]

I am not doing well with speculations at the moment, but if the bombers were connected to an al-Qaeda group or affiliate, surely they would have chosen to 'become martyrs' by blowing themselves up along with any bystanders?

[nysprod]

From the NYT:

A Watertown resident, Andrew Kitzenberg, 29, said he looked out his third-floor window to see two young men of slight build in jackets engaged in “constant gunfire” with police officers. A police SUV “drove towards the shooters,” he said, and was shot at until it was severely damaged. It rolled out of control, Mr. Kitzenberg said, and crashed into two cars in his driveway.

The two shooters, he said, had a large, unwieldy bomb that he said looked “like a pressure cooker.”

“They lit it, still in the middle of the gunfire, and threw it. But it went 20 yards at most.” It exploded, he said, and one of the two men ran toward the gathered police officers. He was tackled, but it was not clear if he was shot, Mr. Kitzenberg said.

The explosions, said another resident, Loretta Kehayias, 65, “lit up the whole house. I screamed. I’ve never seen anything like this, never, never, never.”

Meanwhile, the other young man, said Mr. Kitzenberg, got back into the SUV, turned it toward officers and “put the pedal to the metal.” The car “went right through the cops, broke right through and continued west.”

What? With every conceivable LE agency involved this guy got clean away?

[luvs2lick1385]

I hope they get him alive, give him a fair trial, find him guilty, give life with no parole and put him in general population. After a week you'd be able to drive a car thru his asshole.

[Dino Velvet]

Excellent pull together of what is presently known about the surviving suspect...Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/who-is-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston/64382/

Wherever that fuck is now I wonder if he feels it was worth it. This won't end well for him. Live and learn.

[flabbybody]

I am not doing well with speculations at the moment, but if the bombers were connected to an al-Qaeda group or affiliate, surely they would have chosen to 'become martyrs' by blowing themselves up along with any bystanders?
dead perp spent 6 months in Russia last year. Need to find out what he was doing there and who he was with.

[Dino Velvet]

Father in Russia wants other son to surrender but threatens "all hell will break loose" if he is killed. We had a character that threatened our police. They eventually pulled that pig out of a slow cooker with an apple hanging out of his mouth.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/19/suspects-father-warns-all-hell-will-break-loose-if/

[Dino Velvet]

Chechen aunt calling BS live on TV.

Maret Tsarnaev (https://www.google.com/search?q=Maret+Tsarnaev&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs)

[flabbybody]

What's astounding to me is how an entire major American city is in lockdown right now as they look for this guy (s)

[up_for_it]

What's astounding to me is how an entire major American city is in lockdown right now as they look for this guy (s)

I agree, it's crazy to think that a city has been brought to a halt since 10 PM last night.

[dderek123]

The whole event is astonishing. Which leads me to wonder is the DHS effective?

[up_for_it]

Wherever that fuck is now I wonder if he feels it was worth it. This won't end well for him. Live and learn.

Agreed. His big bro went out in a hail of gunfire and they were so broke they had to try and rob a 7-11. Before last night everyone on the news was talking about how well prepared these guys were. Seriously? They obviously had no escape plan and the one guy didn't even try to disguise himself. Then they hung out and watched it happen. Fortunately they were complete amateurs.The only surprising thing at the moment is why the asshole hasn't been caught or lit up yet. I bet he's in a drain pipe asking himself why he signed up for this shit and isn't in class on his pre-med scholarship right now.

[up_for_it]

The whole event is astonishing. Which leads me to wonder is the DHS effective?

In my opinion, no. DHS is just another layer of bureaucracy, and they are relative new commers versus other agencies like FBI, NSA etc. I think the aftermath of Katrina tells you everything you need to know- they bungled the humanitarian logistics but rolled in like they expected a war. I see some paralells here, with guys driving around Boston in Humvees imposing a dawn to dawn curfew.

[Stavros]

dead perp spent 6 months in Russia last year. Need to find out what he was doing there and who he was with.

The boys' father was interviewed in Dagestan which is where the Russian war with Chechnya in the 1990s began as part of an attempt to create an Islamic Republic in the Caucasus -the funding and most of the Emirs in Dagestan came from Saudi Arabia and though successively killed there has been some cross-fertilisation of Saudi and Chechen versions of Jihad -the wars of the 1860s in which the Russians used savage and brutal ethnic cleansing meant that some Chechen and Dagestani joined the Circassian in exile in various parts of the Ottoman Empire -the Circassians famously settled in Amman in 1878 at a time when it had no settled population but was used as grazing land by the Bani Sakhr -one of the most powerful bedouin tribes in Jordan. The Circassians subsquently formed a close relationship with the Hashemite royal family and provided them with bodyguards, probably still do although the community has dwindled in recent decades. There is a small community of Circassian origin in Israel and also in Syria -one of the Chechen Emirs in the recent wars with Russia was Jordanian by origin.

I don't see any direct connection between these long standing grievances between the Russians and the Chechens and the USA, perhaps we will find out.

There is an article on the desperate situation in Dagestan from Der Spiegel (in English) 2010 here:

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2010/07/30/the-long-reach-of-jihad-islam-in-russian-dagestan/

[dderek123]

In my opinion, no. DHS is just another layer of bureaucracy, and they are relative new commers versus other agencies like FBI, NSA etc. I think the aftermath of Katrina tells you everything you need to know- they bungled the humanitarian logistics but rolled in like they expected a war. I see some paralells here, with guys driving around Boston in Humvees imposing a dawn to dawn curfew.
Yeah I agree with you. I just hope the powers that be don't use this event as a means for rationalizing more funding for DHS-like bullshit. What's next are they going to ban marathons and pressure cookers? Are they going to deploy air drones to spy on "suspicious" activity. 'Murika!

[flabbybody]

The boys' father was interviewed in Dagestan which is where the Russian war with Chechnya in the 1990s began as part of an attempt to create an Islamic Republic in the Caucasus -the funding and most of the Emirs in Dagestan came from Saudi Arabia and though successively killed there has been some cross-fertilisation of Saudi and Chechen versions of Jihad -the wars of the 1860s in which the Russians used savage and brutal ethnic cleansing meant that some Chechen and Dagestani joined the Circassian in exile in various parts of the Ottoman Empire -the Circassians famously settled in Amman in 1878 at a time when it had no settled population but was used as grazing land by the Bani Sakhr -one of the most powerful bedouin tribes in Jordan. The Circassians subsquently formed a close relationship with the Hashemite royal family and provided them with bodyguards, probably still do although the community has dwindled in recent decades. There is a small community of Circassian origin in Israel and also in Syria -one of the Chechen Emirs in the recent wars with Russia was Jordanian by origin.

I don't see any direct connection between these long standing grievances between the Russians and the Chechens and the USA, perhaps we will find out.

There is an article on the desperate situation in Dagestan from Der Spiegel (in English) 2010 here:

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2010/07/30/the-long-reach-of-jihad-islam-in-russian-dagestan/
It's dicey to try to attach rationality to people who commit acts of terror. The root cause has to be deep seated insanity. What political motive could be worth inflicting death and injury on men, women, and children who are in no way connected to your source of grievance.
At least Putin will have a vested interest in using the full weight of Russian authority in getting these terrorist cells in Chechnya. I would start with the father.
That's why its so vital to apprehend this younger brother alive. To find out everything he knows about his brother's trip and who helped them. And to find out what makes a person snap and become a murderer.

[Dino Velvet]

That's why its so vital to apprehend this younger brother alive. To find out everything he knows about his brother's trip and who helped them. And to find out what makes a person snap and become a murderer.

True in a way. The only people that want him dead more than many of us are the people he works for. Loose ends and a hysterically desperate 19 year old making decisions for himself now.

[fivekatz]

Well the shut down because of logistics on the ground because of the fire fight appear too slow to seal off the parameter in time.

I hope they catch the younger brother alive too and that normal due process can be followed. At any rate I'd think that between the brothers the computers, email accounts and phone records will tell a lot of the story.

DHS in theory was never a bad idea, it was just horribly executed under GWB. The theory is that when dealing with terrorism, it is a mix of local police world-wide, federal level intelligence world wide and black ops. This is not a convention battle and by having one agency overseeing the consolidation of data for all agencies to use is way more effective than taking Nation states to war after an attack.

I'd like to see the younger brother captured alive just to demonstrate to everyone who believes that indefinite detention and torture work and that our laws don't are wrong.

The proportionality here is that Israel lives with constant senseless attacks like this so we must take in stride that if idiots are determined enough no amount of largess will protect us from the idiots. And that we can arrest, detain, conduct sophisticated interrogation without torture, hold a trial and incarcerate the idiot.

As soon as we lose proportionality the terrorists win because we abandon our laws and assurance of justice for all.

That said I personally would like maim the MF*ker.

[Dino Velvet]

delete

[Vladimir Putin]

The Boston Globe, Friday, April 19, 2013, 7:38pm EDT

POLICE BELIEVE SUSPECT PINNED IN WATERTOWN
Shots reportedly fired in hunt for suspected bomber.

By SHELLEY MURPHY, MILTON J. VALENCIA, WESLEY LOWERY, AKILAH JOHNSON, ERIC MOSKOWITZ, LISA WANGSNESS, BRIAN MacQUARRIE, MARIA CRAMER, JOHN R. ELLEMENT, MARTIN FINUCANE and MATT ROCHELEAU, The Boston Globe

WATERTOWN — Police believe they have located the desperate 19-year-old suspect in the deadly Boston Marathon terror bombings at a home on Franklin Street in Watertown, a source told the Globe. Residents reported hearing shots fired and police racing to the area.

The source said police believed Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was pinned down, but no further details were immediately available.

The new developments happened just moments after authorities announced that the suspect had announced eluded a dragnet, abandoning a car and escaping on foot.

Residents in the area described pandemonium outside their doors.

Lisa Bontempi said in a telephone interview, “There’s a lot of shooting. ... I’m really scared. I’ve got to go.”

“We’re seeing every officer rushing to the corner. We’ve heard gunshots. We’ve got cops in bulletproof vests and an ambulance is there, with someone carrying out a stretcher,’’ said Louise Harrison Lepera, another Franklin street resident.

“There’s a lot of cops outside,” said another resident, who declined to give her name. “Oh, my God, they’re just crouched down by the cars. But I heard a couple of pops, I’m not sure what they were exactly.”

Daniel Cantor, a resident of 84 Franklin Street, said he heard “a number of gunshots” in rapid succession just after 7:10 p.m.

He estimated it to be more than 30 gunshots but less than 50 to the west of his home, which is at 84 Franklin St., toward Washburn Street. “It was the kind that I did not want to be near,” Cantor said.

Cantor said he, his wife, and two kids were hiding under a bed when a reporter called just after 7:15 p.m.

Heavily armed police had been searching a 20-block area of Watertown since about 11 p.m. Thursday night.

Scott Helman, Marcella Bombardieri, Brian MacQuarrie, Martine Powers, and Maria Sacchetti of the Globe staff and Globe correspondents Jeremy C. Fox, Haven Orecchio-Egresitz, Jaclyn Reiss, and Gal Tziperman Lotan contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2013 The New York Times Company

[Dino Velvet]

FFS. Even police scanners have YouTube ads.

MA Rt. 9 Window Cam on USTREAM: A live look outside my window. Autres 24x7 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam)

[Vladimir Putin]

Just moments ago, I heard on the police scanner you provided that the person pinned in that boat is now in custody. I was watching CBS News and there was a loud cheer from the crowd that gathered outside. There is no official confirmation that he is THE suspect.

[Ben]

Did the FBI know about Boston bombing beforehand?

Reality Check: Did the FBI know about Boston bombing beforehand? - Ben Swann - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjW03McCgfw)

[Vladimir Putin]

UPDATE: Boston Mayor Thomas Menino just tweeted "we got him".

[Ben]

UPDATE: Boston Mayor Thomas Menino just tweeted "we got him".

Boston manhunt: 19-year-old suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev 'in custody' after stand-off in Watertown:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/breaking--boston-manhunt-19yearold-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-in-custody-after-standoff-in-watertown-8579362.html

[Ben]

Boston Bombings & Overlooked Tragedies:

Boston Bombings & Overlooked Tragedies | Brainwash Update - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0gXp-wxtQ)

[Dino Velvet]

We have him now. He'll be kept in a cage in America for the rest of his life. Remember his offense. Been easier for him if he off'd himself. Let the suffering begin.

http://cdn.ph.upi.com/sv/upi/UPI-42041366395229/2013/1/6657dd041b9a780e90728983d2a8a87a/Boston-Marathon-bombings-suspect-on-Twitter-stay-safe-people.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/kabc/cms_exf_2007/news/national_world/9067346_448x252.jpg

[flabbybody]

Thank God, they got him alive. He's got tons of stuff that American and Russian LE will want to ask him about. under humane conditions of course. As the CIA guy said in the movie ZERO DARK 30 "dude, I'm going to break you.... it's biology"

[Ben]

Who Is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the Man at the Center of the Boston Manhunt?

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/who-is-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston/64382/

Boston suspect's web page venerates Islam, Chechen independence:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-explosions-suspect-site-idUSBRE93I0JL20130419

[Dino Velvet]

Police/Law Enforcement did a great job on the final scene. Patience paid off. People applauding squad cars as they drive by. Nice work, fellas.

People pumping their fists chanting "USA! USA! USA!" Smiling now.

[Tara Emory]

What a terrible week we've been through. I live about an hour away but I'm in Boston all the time (in fact even last night and saw the cops everywhere).

I've been down that stretch of Boylston street where the bombings happened countless times. I also went to 2 semesters to Umass Dartmouth, where the younger Tsarnaev brother went to college. And lastly, I worked really close to the Arsenal Mall area of Watertown, so this is ALL taking place in my backyard.

So yeah, it hits home and I'm not sure what more to say about this. I'm just VERY HAPPY they caught him alive, because if both ended up dead there would be so many unanswered questions, and conspiracy theroists will be theroizing forever.

I've got NO tolerance for that bullshit, because the combined efforts of law enforcement are So dedicated to piecing this case together.

Now that we got him, we will find out WHY, and HOW.

-Tara

[Tara Emory]

the 7/11 robbery was unrelated. But they stopped there to get gas or something when in one of the getaway vehicles (presumably)

[Dino Velvet]

the 7/11 robbery was unrelated. But they stopped there to get gas or something when in one of the getaway vehicles (presumably)

I heard that too. Heck of a coincidence.

Take care, Tara. The West Coast is definitely hurting for you and trying to heal with you too.

[fivekatz]

Well done. And we will see that we don't have to send terrorists to Gitmo and we can try them through our court system and still have justice,

The fact that the prosecution of this tragedy will be constitutional will not take the horrific loss away but it might make those loses mean something more than it would otherwise.

[Tara Emory]

new info- the carjacking happened AT the 7/11. So the "robbery" was not stealing a few Snicker's bars or opening the register, it was that they stole the car from there.

makes more sense. Media kinda jumps to conclusions and thinks there was a convenience store robbery, when there wasn't

[Dino Velvet]

http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2013/04/19/rendered/b2a4151fe7773c21d6368f386b0dca45_490x247.jpg

http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2013/04/19/AP853805182053/large.jpg

[Vladimir Putin]

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q749/transfan1/Boston_Globe_zpsea9cfd33.png

[Ben]

Boston Bombing Suspect's Aunt: Staged, Set Up, False Flag! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk5RljJEXQ)

[Vladimir Putin]

Photo of wounded surviving suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q749/transfan1/IMG_1047_zps21e163fc.jpg

[rito1]

Bomber #1 killed last night.

[dderek123]

Wow that's a huge hole in his chest. Could that have been from a shotgun or AR 15?

[scorpioluva]

Sorry, but there is no chance in hell that is a real picture of the dead guy. Anyone who would really believe that, I got a bridge for you that is for sale in Brooklyn.

[nysprod]

Sorry, but there is no chance in hell that is a real picture of the dead guy. Anyone who would really believe that, I got a bridge for you that is for sale in Brooklyn.

TMZ says its real...looks like part of posterior parietal/superior occipital area is missing...if the body fell forward blood could pool around the face and throat, as in the picture...the left shoulder is dislocated...the wound on the left side was partly from some sort of emergency surgery...ribs are missing...

[youngblood61]

It wasn't a good day to be a bad guy. Kudos to the city of Boston!!!!:claps

[maxpower]

...the wound on the left side was partly from some sort of emergency surgery...


No way that huge gash is from surgery, unless it was done with a butter knife instead of a scalpel. And where is that body laid out, anyway? Some back room supply closet? No. No way that picture is the real deal.

[BiBoyinBeantown]

I'm glad they finally got the guy.

Kudos to the various LE agencies for being consummate professionals about the whole thing, displaying restraint and taking him in ALIVE. Now we get to have a trial, and we maybe get to pick his brain a bit about how a popular high school athlete who looks to have everything going for him ends up placing bombs in a crowd that kill and maim people.

FWIW, I shop at the Arsenal Mall and at the Target across the street, and I have friends who live in Watertown near, but not in, the area where the firefight happened last night. I'm relieved that they're safe.

[up_for_it]

Yeah I agree with you. I just hope the powers that be don't use this event as a means for rationalizing more funding for DHS-like bullshit. What's next are they going to ban marathons and pressure cookers? Are they going to deploy air drones to spy on "suspicious" activity. 'Murika!

I think it will- one of the worst things about this tragedy, aside from the loss and maiming of so many innocent lives, is that it reinforces the siege mentality we've lived under since 9/11. Did you notice how many police officers looked exactly like soldiers? I saw one photo yesterday of a forensic tech at the scene of the shoot out wearing one of those low profile special forces helmets. Policing has become really militarized. Speaking of drones, check out Sen. Lindesy Graham's comments yesterday:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/04/19/sen-lindsey-graham-boston-bombing-is-exhibit-a-of-why-the-homeland-is-the-battlefield/

[Prospero]

Yep - kudos to the police operation that finally took this oung man alive. So as biboysays we might get some insight into his motivation. Good to let the law take its due course.

The identification of these fellows and the eventual arrest on one also vindicates the often criticised high level of CCTV cameras in modrn society. Many worry about the human rights implications of such cameras and it is true that, in some situations of political demonstration, images gathered by them and by hand held digital devices can lead to the arrest of political demonstrators.

But here without these cameras and the scores of images taken by members of the public it is doubtful the killers would have been so easiiy and quickly identified and capture 9in one case).

For those us watching way beyond the sidelines - in my case in London - it is also further proof that a new media age has truly dawned. Twitter feeds from news sources and ordinary members of the public broke the news on all of the events of the past week faster than the old news organisations (though credit also the Boston Globe who really were abreast of every twist and turn of the story.) The last time I remember seeing events so quickly and broadly reported was the japanese Tsunami a couple of years back.

[up_for_it]

For those us watching way beyond the sidelines - in my case in London - it is also further proof that a new media age has truly dawned. Twitter feeds from news sources and ordinary members of the public broke the news on all of the events of the past week faster than the old news organisations (though credit also the Boston Globe who really were abreast of every twist and turn of the story.) The last time I remember seeing events so quickly and broadly reported was the japanese Tsunami a couple of years back.

I agree with your comments the "new media age has truly dawned," the use of new technology to not only quickly inform the public but also to track and keep pressure on the suspects (such as the monitoring of their Twitter accounts) is remarkable. However, its not all roses either, for the rise of digital vigilantes and arm chair detectives see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22214511

[Prospero]

Up-for-it --- thanks for posting that nonsense from Graham. Very worrying.

Some people believe that i give Muslims - and islamic inspired terrorism - an easy ride in my political posts here. I would argue with this.

What I reject is the Pavlovian attitude of so many (especially on the Right) that ALL Muslims are evil and somehow responsible when an event like this occurs.

It is still far from clear if islamic fundamentalism actually inspired these two young Chechens. Hopefully the truth will emerge. That assumption might then prove true or erroneous.

I would not argue at all with the claim that there is a struggle doing on against the forces of violent Jihadism.

That this war has led to many blunders (deliberate or craven) is also unarguable in my view. The invasion of Iraq was one of the worst - but the death of many innocent civilians in drone attacks is another as is the shameful record of the previous administration in allowing special rendition, the creation of offshore and unregulated prisons in third world countries where torture was practised and the creation of Guantanamo Bay. Shame too on Obama for not fulfilling his promise to close Gitmo.

We in the "West" are supposedly a developed and humane society - and these few things I've listed help us lose the claim to moral higher ground in dealing with terrorism.

There is an enemy out there. But it is an enemy too to ordinary Muslim men and women. I have spent a long time working-on and studying the issues and practices around violent Jihad and the clash of ideas and beliefs now tearing the Muslim world apart. The success of the Taliban in Afghanistan, for instance, had a terrible impact on the lives of ordinary men and, especially, women. It is a battle for the hearts, minds and souls of islam that is underway.

The sort of crazy cries of kill or imprison all Muslims or nuke the Middle east which appear in the wake of an incident like Boston actually make things worse - and are a valuable recruiting sergeant for the Jihadist base.

[up_for_it]

Up-for-it --- thanks for posting that nonsense from Graham. Very worrying.

There is an enemy out there. But it is an enemy too to ordinary Muslim men and women. I have spent a long time working-on and studying the issues and practices around violent Jihad and the clash of ideas and beliefs now tearing the Muslim world apart. The success of the Taliban in Afghanistan, for instance, had a terrible impact on the lives of ordinary men and, especially, women. It is a battle for the hearts, minds and souls of islam that is underway.



I agree that we can't paint with a broad brush, thats one of the reasons I posted the BBC article on the role of forums in the investigation- they got lost in debate and conjecture and turned out to be pretty useless. Then again, as you stated, we also need to be aware there really is an enemy out there which seeks to draw in dissafected youth. To Boston's credit, there hasn't been any public backlash against immigrants etc. This speaks to the intelligence of it's residents, and most Americans, that there is an enemy, but that they don't represent all Muslims.

Clearly these two got mixed up in the radical cleric circut on the internet. From what I've read the older of the two had a much harder time assimilating, while the younger one was having a tough transition between high school and entering college. I'm not saying that these in any way shape or form excuse what they did (millions of people share the same types of experiences), but these aspects of their lives offer some clues as to how they might have been attracted to jihadism. What is striking to me is how much they fit the profile of the Madrid bombers- young and having spent most of their lives living as expatriates rather than in war zones.

I'm not convinced they could even be described as 'Chechen' since they never really lived there, but bounced around until settling in the U.S. At any rate, drawing direct connections between Jihadi groups, especially Chechen seperatists, and these two is too simple. Inspired? Yes. Trained? Doubt it.

[nysprod]

No way that huge gash is from surgery, unless it was done with a butter knife instead of a scalpel. And where is that body laid out, anyway? Some back room supply closet? No. No way that picture is the real deal.

No, the margins are clean...it's not an entry or exit wound (although the injury could have started out as such), and the ribs are missing...we tend to think of surgery as being something that's precise, and it can be, but this type of situation is very much the opposite.

And as far as the "supply closet" goes, forget what you see on TV...the tile...it looks realistic

I can't 100% say the pic is real but if it isn't, someone took the time to add some very realistic effects, like the dislocated left shoulder.

[Dino Velvet]

TMZ says its real...looks like part of posterior parietal/superior occipital area is missing...if the body fell forward blood could pool around the face and throat, as in the picture...the left shoulder is dislocated...the wound on the left side was partly from some sort of emergency surgery...ribs are missing...

Anzor will be pissed when he finds out little Harvey Levin made money showing pics of his son's corpse on the internet.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/20/article-0-196577C3000005DC-130_306x423.jpghttp://www.trbimg.com/img-51311f3a/turbine/la-fi-hotprop-harvey-levin-20130301-001/600/600x505

[brickcitybrother]

I wonder what the government and media will give as reasoning for this? Our society here believes everything is for a reason and it clamors for same.

[dderek123]

Sorry, but there is no chance in hell that is a real picture of the dead guy. Anyone who would really believe that, I got a bridge for you that is for sale in Brooklyn.

Fair enough.
I really don't get that reference though.

[fred41]

Hats off to Boston LE for a job well done...and to the wonderful people in the Boston area (my sister included). You folks rock. In the following days I will eventually root against your Bruins and Red Sox again lol, but right now I got nothing but love.

My heart goes out to the victims of these two assholes...They were too young to pass away and too young to be maimed for the rest of their lives, all because that day they wanted to cheer on loved ones, on a beautiful day,that had entered into a marathon...which many entrants often run in for charity.
A day two completely self obsessed dickheads chose to create a monstrous act to make their own black and bloody mark in history.
...but at the end of the day,they are as their uncle stated...losers.

Also R.I.P. MIT P.O. Sean Collier.
As shown by your picture,also much too young to be gone.
From the articles I read he clearly made his Dept.proud
http://www.bostonglobe.com/2013/04/19/mit-police-officer-sean-collier-killed-line-duty/STDk6GcdKUymEzBNZ5i4fI/story.html

[EvaCassini]

I religiously watch Colbert and Stewart....but still confused ( i don't watch nor trust mainstream media ) So they caught the douche?

[BellaBellucci]

I religiously watch Colbert and Stewart....but still confused ( i don't watch nor trust mainstream media ) So they caught the douche?

Only took you 24 hours. Try CNN next time, huh? :lol:

~BB~

[EvaCassini]

its a serious question douche-hole....grow up

[BiBoyinBeantown]

Fair enough.
I really don't get that reference though.

In the USA, trying to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge is a synonym for trying to put one over on someone who's unusually naïve or gullible, from the notion of a fast-talking New Yorker selling it to some unwary tourist from somewhere unsophisticated and rural.

[BiBoyinBeantown]

Yep - kudos to the police operation that finally took this oung man alive. So as biboysays we might get some insight into his motivation. Good to let the law take its due course.

I'm especially keen to see this young man tried as a common criminal in the U.S. court system rather than as an enemy combatant by a military tribunal. I'm not clear on whether he's a citizen or a permanent resident but either way, as someone who's in the country lawfully, constitutional protections regarding due process accrue to him. Treat him as anyone else whose criminal actions resulted in four deaths and the injury and maiming of 180+ people. To do anything else is to lend credibility to his political cause.

Honestly, it's starting to look like his older brother was the one who had a hate-on for the U.S., he complained about how he couldn't get along here and didn't have any American friends, and how American people "lacked morals" (which, BTW, is a square in "Authoritarian Government Bingo"). He probably pulled his younger brother in for the ride, who knows why, it looks like the younger brother looked up to the older one a great deal.

[Ben]

I'm especially keen to see this young man tried as a common criminal in the U.S. court system rather than as an enemy combatant by a military tribunal. I'm not clear on whether he's a citizen or a permanent resident but either way, as someone who's in the country lawfully, constitutional protections regarding due process accrue to him. Treat him as anyone else whose criminal actions resulted in four deaths and the injury and maiming of 180+ people. To do anything else is to lend credibility to his political cause.

Honestly, it's starting to look like his older brother was the one who had a hate-on for the U.S., he complained about how he couldn't get along here and didn't have any American friends, and how American people "lacked morals" (which, BTW, is a square in "Authoritarian Government Bingo"). He probably pulled his younger brother in for the ride, who knows why, it looks like the younger brother looked up to the older one a great deal.


What rights should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev get and why does it matter?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/20/boston-marathon-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-mirnada-rights

[Corran]

interesting...

http://gma.yahoo.com/boston-bomb-suspect-clings-life-134835744--abc-news-topstories.html

[fred41]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/19/tale-two-immigrants/m3alkAoSFQWPwVJ3FXvBkI/story.html

[Stavros]

I'm especially keen to see this young man tried as a common criminal in the U.S. court system rather than as an enemy combatant by a military tribunal. I'm not clear on whether he's a citizen or a permanent resident but either way, as someone who's in the country lawfully, constitutional protections regarding due process accrue to him. Treat him as anyone else whose criminal actions resulted in four deaths and the injury and maiming of 180+ people. To do anything else is to lend credibility to his political cause.



Dzhokar Tsarnaev, the survivor, became an American citizen on 9/11/2012.

[trish]

As posters to this thread are probably aware, Dzhokar has not yet been mirandized. The law allows that under circumstances where public safety is an immediately issue a suspect may be questioned before being informed of his or her rights as a citizen. Were Dzhokar to be tried as a common criminal (which in my current thinking is preferable) not mirandizing him might render the information thereby obtained unacceptable to an ordinary criminal court. Is this a step toward trying Dzhokar as a terrorist in a military court? Any lawyers here?

[yourdaddy]

The younger brother ran over and dragged the older one to his death. Maybe the injuries in that disputed picture occurred then.

[fred41]

I'm guessing that they will try to question him without the Miranda Rights for the purpose of gathering any intelligence info he may possess (if he remains conscious long enough to even be able to do that). As far as using his statements to convict him in a court of law - the issue would probably be moot anyway - I'm sure they have enough evidence against him without him saying a word.

[Queens Guy]

Wow that's a huge hole in his chest. Could that have been from a shotgun or AR 15?

When the two brothers were involved in a shootout Thursday night, the younger brother was driving a vehicle, and literally drove over the other brother as he fled.

I'm no expert on what wounds look like, but that may be from having a car driven over him.

[StlyeMeCunty]

When the two brothers were involved in a shootout Thursday night, the younger brother was driving a vehicle, and literally drove over the other brother as he fled.

I'm no expert on what wounds look like, but that may be from having a car driven over him.

I Just read an article which is states that the huge gash in the chest is a thoracotomy incision, which is used by surgeons to reach multiple organs in the area, many times in an emergency. These organs include the heart and lungs, as well as the anterior spine.
THE MORE YOU KNOW! :)

[trish]

I'm guessing that they will try to question him without the Miranda Rights for the purpose of gathering any intelligence info he may possess (if he remains conscious long enough to even be able to do that). As far as using his statements to convict him in a court of law - the issue would probably be moot anyway - I'm sure they have enough evidence against him without him saying a word.Thanks fred.

[flabbybody]

After the tipoff from Russian authorities why did the FBI conclude this guy was not a threat ? They interrogated him on 3 occasions. as well as family members. Why did Russian intelligence see his connection with Islamic extremism yet we closed his file? It's only great police work if you catch bad guys before they commit their crime, not afterward.

[fivekatz]

Well I personally think the Obama Administration will work very hard to try this case in the criminal courts. Indefinite detention for "enemy combatants" is no more appealing to American values than it was when Senator Obama was running for President. I think the Administration wants to demonstrate you don't have to go all the way down the sewer hole to deal with terrorism.

And I know it is conflicted thought because 44 has no problems with hit squads to eliminate Bin Laden or flying a drone up the tailpipe of a high value suspect\target.

But anything that can be done not to add to the perpetual nature of Gitmo is a plus.

And the AG can probably compromise 30 charges against the suspect and still get convictions on another six charges that will ensure he spends the rest of his time in the Federal prison system.

[buttslinger]

I thought when they didn't release the photos to the public right away that they had an idea who the badguys were. I think on ANYTHING related to terrorism, law enforcement's concerns lean more toward not getting blamed for doing something wrong, than actually admitting this is going to be a long ugly business.

[BellaBellucci]

After the tipoff from Russian authorities why did the FBI conclude this guy was not a threat ? They interrogated him on 3 occasions. as well as family members. Why did Russian intelligence see his connection with Islamic extremism yet we closed his file? It's only great police work if you catch bad guys before they commit their crime, not afterward.

This 1000%. I'm ripping my hair out over all of this 'good police work' stuff. Do you know why they caught him? Because he never left Massachusetts. In fact, the younger suspect was only one block outside of the police perimeter when it was set up. That's actually quite lousy police work.

~BB~

[fivekatz]

I thought when they didn't release the photos to the public right away that they had an idea who the badguys were. I think on ANYTHING related to terrorism, law enforcement's concerns lean more toward not getting blamed for doing something wrong, than actually admitting this is going to be an
long ugly business.Perhaps and not telling high value suspects you are on to them is sound procedure. The longer you know who they are and they don't know that you do, the longer you can collect intelligence.

But I think it is likely that the FBI concluded that the brothers were clowns and much more threat to the Russians in their ongoing occupation of Chechnya, than they were to the US.

And while their bombs were good enough IEDs, their lack of plan post bombing was glaring. These boys weren't playing suicide rules but once their photos got out the acted like panicked amateurs.

Any time a lead gets over looked to an eventual crime a mistakes had been made but in this case it may be a combination of Geo Politics and that the brothers were clowns.

[trish]

This


The significance of the trip was magnified late Friday when the F.B.I. disclosed in a statement that in 2011 “a foreign government” — now acknowledged by officials to be Russia — asked for information about Tamerlan. The request was “based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer, and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country’s region to join unspecified underground groups.”
The senior law enforcement official said the Russians feared he could be a risk, and “they had something on him and were concerned about him, and him traveling to their region.” Chechen extremists pose a greater threat to Russia than they do to the United States, counterterrorism specialists say, though some of the groups have had ties to Al Qaeda.
But the F.B.I. never followed up on Tamerlan once he returned, a senior law enforcement official acknowledged on Saturday, adding that its investigation did not turn up anything and it did not have the legal authority to keep tabs on him.

from

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?smid=pl-share

It's a delicate balance between Federal surveillance of a citizen and the expectation of privacy. In the U.S. people can have extreme beliefs about all sorts of things including religion and governance and still retain the rights accorded to all citizens by the Constitution. In hind sight perhaps the FBI should have kept tabs on these guys. Perhaps they did. Would further surveillance have required a court order? Were court orders requested? Denied? Questions which have yet to be asked and answered. I happen to think the FBI and the various Boston law enforcement agencies did a great job over the past few days after the shit hit the fan. Whether the FBI did a good job prior to the tragic event is a judgement that is at present difficult to make.

[red-cyberman]

Lebanese peered from YouTube and "brainwashing" Boston bomber
Tamerlan Tsarnayev affected by preacher Sheikh Faiz Mohammad inciting children to martyrdom

Source: http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/latest-news/2013/04/21/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B0%D9%8A-%D8%BA%D8%B3%D9%84-%D8%AF%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%BA-%D9%85%D9%86%D9%81%D8%B0-%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%86.html

[nysprod]

It's a delicate balance between Federal surveillance of a citizen and the expectation of privacy. In the U.S. people can have extreme beliefs about all sorts of things including religion and governance and still retain the rights accorded to all citizens by the Constitution.

Tamerlan was not a citizen. He applied but the application was "delayed" due to his FBI interview.

My question is how the Russians even came to know anything about this guy, since he had been in the U.S. from about 2002.

[Queens Guy]

After the tipoff from Russian authorities why did the FBI conclude this guy was not a threat ? They interrogated him on 3 occasions. as well as family members. Why did Russian intelligence see his connection with Islamic extremism yet we closed his file? It's only great police work if you catch bad guys before they commit their crime, not afterward.


The FBI way very well have thought him a threat, or a potential threat. But we don't imprison people for 'being threats'. We only imprison them for committing crimes.

I think you can still say it was great police work. The bombers still had plenty of bombs on them when apprehended. They still had plenty of bombs left. They could have, but didn't leave the area. Their work wasn't done. But the police caught them first.

[Queens Guy]

Tamerlan was not a citizen. He applied but the application was "delayed" due to his FBI interview.

My question is how the Russians even came to know anything about this guy, since he had been in the U.S. from about 2002.

Didn't he travel to Chechnya for six months just a few years ago? Apparently for terrorism training? The KGB keeps track of foreigners who do that.

[BellaBellucci]

Didn't he travel to Chechnya for six months just a few years ago? Apparently for terrorism training? The KGB keeps track of foreigners who do that.

The KGB no longer exists, but yeah.

~BB~

[trish]

Tamerlan was not a citizen. He applied but the application was "delayed" due to his FBI interview.

My question is how the Russians even came to know anything about this guy, since he had been in the U.S. from about 2002.

Thanks for the correction.
Perhaps the Russians keep a closer eye on the internet chatter of Chechyan extremist groups and discovered Tamerlan via that activity.

[fivekatz]

I happen to think the FBI and the various Boston law enforcement agencies did a great job over the past few days after the shit hit the fan. Whether the FBI did a good job prior to the tragic event is a judgement that is at present difficult to make.I concur. The remained calm, did not spend too much or too little time in front of the media.

Once they concluded the had good photographic IDs on both suspects, brought the citizens into it. That pretty much smoked out the brothers who were clowns and had no viable plans.

They shut down large parts of the city, including the suspected are in Watertown and the got their man.

The state and local authorities worked their drill well. The only question that seems to able to get any traction is did the FBI blow off the intelligence regarding the older brother?

So far I think America has done OK. We did not freak out like we did in 2001 and so far Obama has not suggested we get in a conventional war with Iran.

Terrorism is part of the world landscape and IMO we took the body blow without freaking out and had the bad guys of the street in less than 100 hours.

[nysprod]

Didn't he travel to Chechnya for six months just a few years ago? Apparently for terrorism training? The KGB keeps track of foreigners who do that.

I want to know what the father's involvement in this is...I mean, he lives in the U.S. for like 10 years, then decides to leave his sons here to go live in a dangerous place where civil war has been going on for years?

[Queens Guy]

The KGB no longer exists, but yeah.

~BB~

KGB, FSB, to-may-to, to-mah-to

[flabbybody]

Thanks for the correction.
Perhaps the Russians keep a closer eye on the internet chatter of Chechyan extremist groups and discovered Tamerlan via that activity.
So essentially Russian LE is more thorough at anti-terrorist surveillance than its American counterpart. Why is that? Who at the FBI made the horribly wrong judgement call to close the file on this guy? Someone needs to answer for that

[robertlouis]

The London Marathon passed without incident, but with a minute's silence at the start and many moving tributes paid by both star athletes and those running for charity.

[dderek123]

In the USA, trying to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge is a synonym for trying to put one over on someone who's unusually naïve or gullible, from the notion of a fast-talking New Yorker selling it to some unwary tourist from somewhere unsophisticated and rural.

Thanks for clearing that up man. Oh well, I guess some people are incapable of disagreeing with someone else without attributing their opinion to some serious flaw of their character. That must be exhausting.

[nysprod]

So essentially Russian LE is more thorough at anti-terrorist surveillance than its American counterpart. Why is that? Who at the FBI made the horribly wrong judgement call to close the file on this guy? Someone needs to answer for that

I'm not sure they actually "closed the file"...they felt at the time, 2 years ago, that he wasn't an immediate threat.

They can't surveill everyone 24/7/365 and if he planned this on his own and never communicated, that obviously makes it harder to tie him to anything. Of course, we'll probably learn more about this going forward.

[trish]

So essentially Russian LE is more thorough at anti-terrorist surveillance than its American counterpart. Why is that? Who at the FBI made the horribly wrong judgement call to close the file on this guy? Someone needs to answer for thatI'm merely guessing that recent history between Russia and Chechnyan jihadists suggests that the Russians have reason to interpret Chechnyan extremist chatter more sensitively than do we.

[BellaBellucci]

So essentially Russian LE is more thorough at anti-terrorist surveillance than its American counterpart. Why is that? Who at the FBI made the horribly wrong judgement call to close the file on this guy? Someone needs to answer for that

^ This.

But you know: good policing, coordination of officials, 'Murrica...

~BB~

[robertlouis]

Meanwhile, a list of American dipshits who seemingly can't tell the difference between the Czech Republic and Chechnya.....

And want to nuke Prague as a result. Words fail me.

http://http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpublicshaming.tumblr.com%2Fpo st%2F48547675807%2Fthe-definitive-people-who-thought-chechnya-was-the&h=wAQFPqCSh

[Prospero]

Well Prague is "over there" isn't it... foreign.... jeez the lynch mob mentality that emerges at times like this is truly terrifying.

The suggestion that the suspect now held should be denied his miranda rights and treated as an "Enemy combatent" shames those who make this call.

Actually Ive a better idea. This has got to stop. Why not round up all those who are most likely to cause crimes or commit acts of terror in the US - you know Muslims, blacks, illegal immigrants - and concentrate them all in a few big camps somewhere out of public sight.

[Stavros]

There was a bombing on the Moscow subway in 2010 attributed to Chechen separatists -female suicide bombers, 38 dead, 60+ injured; the hammering of Chechnya which took place first under Yeltsin then under Putin's orders has dampened down the most extreme violence, but the tensions remain as does an independence movement. It used to be argued that the Chechen Muslims were more mystical than political owing to the influence of the Sufi, but in recent years the export of Saudi-funded 'education' and the opportunity for foreign fighters to get some field experience in a conflict zone has changed the rhetoric and complexion of some-I don't know how many- Muslims in the Caucasus. The elder brother Tamerlan seems to have been attracted by this uncompromising perspective, and maybe felt a gesture in the US would 'wake up' America to a forgotten conflict, even though relations between the USA and Russia are not close, its not as if they are colluding against the Chechen.

I can't see any other motivation outside resentment by the elder brother that he didn't make it in America. There is a report on today's papers that when an Imam in a Boston mosque was praising Martin Luther King, Tamerlan shouted at him something to the effect that King was not a Muslim and therefore an irrelevance -he was told to shut up and then left the mosque. Lots of people don't 'make it' in America, but they don't blame it on the country and then kill people as a result. So there is some Islamic politics mixed up in the alienated psychology of one or both of the brothers. Not sure which is the most potent in this case.

[Prospero]

The gentler Sufi movement within Islam is under attack across the Muslim world by the Wahhabist/Salafist elements. The uncompromising brand of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia and exported around the world now is part of a "devil's compact a long time ago between the al-Saud tribe the Wahhabi religious leaders to ensure power in Arabia. This extremist brand has also seen the Saudi authorities demolish most of the historic shrines within their domain - as abberations against pure islam.

I bow to Stavros' greater knowledge of the internal politics of Dagestan, Chechnya and the on-going war with Russia.

[surf4490]

You ever heard of Gitmo ,non of those guys have actually committed a crime .Its the USA's gulag .

[trish]

There was a bombing on the Moscow subway in 2010 attributed to Chechen separatists -female suicide bombers, 38 dead, 60+ injured; the hammering of Chechnya which took place first under Yeltsin then under Putin's orders has dampened down the most extreme violence, but the tensions remain as does an independence movement. It used to be argued that the Chechen Muslims were more mystical than political owing to the influence of the Sufi, but in recent years the export of Saudi-funded 'education' and the opportunity for foreign fighters to get some field experience in a conflict zone has changed the rhetoric and complexion of some-I don't know how many- Muslims in the Caucasus. The elder brother Tamerlan seems to have been attracted by this uncompromising perspective, and maybe felt a gesture in the US would 'wake up' America to a forgotten conflict, even though relations between the USA and Russia are not close, its not as if they are colluding against the Chechen.

I can't see any other motivation outside resentment by the elder brother that he didn't make it in America. There is a report on today's papers that when an Imam in a Boston mosque was praising Martin Luther King, Tamerlan shouted at him something to the effect that King was not a Muslim and therefore an irrelevance -he was told to shut up and then left the mosque. Lots of people don't 'make it' in America, but they don't blame it on the country and then kill people as a result. So there is some Islamic politics mixed up in the alienated psychology of one or both of the brothers. Not sure which is the most potent in this case.Thanks for the insightful post.

[trish]

If Tamerlan aligned himself with the Chechen independence movement, then Russia had reason to be nervous of his comings and goings whereas the FBI would have assigned him to a lower priority watch list. We don't know whether the FBI "closed the file" on him or not. We might surmise they were unaware that the two brothers amassed a number of arms and built bombs (though we don't even know that for sure). We do know the FBI were caught unawares on the day of the Marathon.

To what degree we can blame the FBI or Home Land Security for the tragic surprise still remains to be seen.

I don't expect absolute security. I don't relish having to take my shoes off and I don't like getting patted down at every airport. I certainly don't want to go through a security line just to walk down a city street. The NRA doesn't want gun registration, or tagging agents in explosive compounds like black powder, yet judging by all the footage we had of Tamerlan and his brother, we already live under constant scrutiny.

[buttslinger]

In my Elementary School we practiced air raid drills, where we would all go out into the hallways, sit against the walls, lean over and kiss our asses goodbye. We had a big air raid siren on a telephone pole outside the school that they tested every day at noon, you could here it for miles. But, all in all, it was much more innocent than now, our school was 100% white, negroes had their own reser....neighborhoods, and gays, transsexual freaks, criminals, dopeheads, they all hid in the dark cool shadows.

The Cold War with the USSR was real back then, and while now we have the real chance of a suitcase nuke going off in a large city, back then we had the chance of nuclear ICBMs raining down on every city.

Vietnam was a fight against World Communism, and after we lost it was necessary to change our immigration laws so our South Vietnamese buddies could get the hell out of there. But we never changed the law back, that's why Elemntary Schools today have kids from all kinds of worldly backgrounds.

It's difficult to know how much of these changes were orchestrated by our leaders, and how much was stuff that "just happened" Who can predict the future?

[fred41]

If Tamerlan aligned himself with the Chechen independence movement, then Russia had reason to be nervous of his comings and goings whereas the FBI would have assigned him to a lower priority watch list. We don't know whether the FBI "closed the file" on him or not. We might surmise they were unaware that the two brothers amassed a number of arms and built bombs (though we don't even know that for sure). We do know the FBI were caught unawares on the day of the Marathon.

To what degree we can blame the FBI or Home Land Security for the tragic surprise still remains to be seen.

I don't expect absolute security. I don't relish having to take my shoes off and I don't like getting patted down at every airport. I certainly don't want to go through a security line just to walk down a city street. The NRA doesn't want gun registration, or tagging agents in explosive compounds like black powder, yet judging by all the footage we had of Tamerlan and his brother, we already live under constant scrutiny.

Well stated Trish...
We'll eventually find out if anyone "fucked up"...or not.
Shrill, uninformed knee jerk reactions never solve anything.
(It's funny too...often people that complain the most about being inconvenienced, will be the first to complain when "not enough is being done". I think the key word here is "complain"..lol)

Thanks,
Always enjoy your measured responses.

[Ben]

Blame the Muslims | Interview with Arsalan Iftikhar - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIOkYXVJjE)

[Gillian]

I'm struggling to get my head round the fact that a home-made pressure cooker bomb is defined as a "weapon of mass destruction" yet a legally held, fully automatic assault rifle isn't.

Only in America ... :(

[BBaggins06]

I'm struggling to get my head round the fact that a home-made pressure cooker bomb is defined as a "weapon of mass destruction" yet a legally held, fully automatic assault rifle isn't.

Only in America ... :(

Hey thanks eurotrash, you can't pass up any opportunity to bash the US even after a heinous act of terrorism. Bravo douchebag. Maybe you'd like to rub salt in the bloody stumps of all the innocent bystanders who had their arms and legs blown off ...

[Prospero]

Chill out Bbaggins... Shelf has got a point and it's hardly anti-American to point out that the death toll from guns wielded by American citizens on MOST days exceeds that of the bombs. Neither is justified. But your government has been useless in all attempts to limit deadly firearms because of "the constitution" and the NRA's recent reporting payments to key Republican politicians and its political influence.

This is hardly America bashing... more pointing some odd discontinuities in public discourse.

[trish]

If you're on the terrorist watch-list, you can't fly; but you can buy as many semi-automatics and as much ammunition as you can carry. Thank you NRA.

It would be a simple matter for manufacturers to mix tagging agents in their explosive compounds (such as black power) to help identify the source of the components used in a bomb and trace its trail of purchase transfers. But no we can't have that, 'cause that would only be like eight times removed from have a federal gun registry. Thank you NRA.

(Talking about rubbing salt in raw wounds, that's exactly what the Senate did this week to the mourners and survivors of Sandy Hook)

[Ben]

Report: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's repeated requests for a lawyer were ignored

Glenn Greenwald: There is zero legal or ethical justification for denying a suspect in custody this fundamental right:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/29/tsarnaev-right-to-counsel-denied

[robertlouis]

Hey thanks eurotrash, you can't pass up any opportunity to bash the US even after a heinous act of terrorism. Bravo douchebag. Maybe you'd like to rub salt in the bloody stumps of all the innocent bystanders who had their arms and legs blown off ...

Interesting. Was it the source of the comment that raised your blood pressure or would you have been just as offended if the point had been put by a fellow American?