Open you eyes to the Trafficking of Thais into London

[gslang]

It come up on different threads, but deserves its own discussion.

recently: http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=74044

previously:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=70121
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=66529

Are YOU supporting trafficking?

Either actively, from advertising here, writing as an agent, or posing as reviewer. All against current UK laws.

Or by closing your eyes to the obvious.
Such as when visiting or writing about the girls as tho the issue doesn't exist.

Thai girls are shipped to central london and held here under debt-bondage.

Not chained to walls, but having been lured under promises of riches to be made, are then subject to a huge debt for the arranging of travel, fake documentation, accommodation, photo/advert packaging, working premises/protection plus debt interest. And thats before they feed themselves, and whatever habit they have.

One day this will come out, and like the current appalling Saville revelations, we wonder why WE let it go on for so long.

its time to speak up. being silent is siding with the perpetrators.

i welcome a considered debate (oh dear, thats wishing)

[tsadriana]

To be honest i never had a clue abouut this thai girls being used as sex toy for pimps in london...I will be very shocked if this will came out as being true.

[tsadriana]

I think the guys who opt for this sopposed angecys to be worried,because if what u said will be true i dont think it will end quite good.

[Jericho]

Never favored agencies
Always gone for the independents! :shrug

[Jericho]

Unless I'm in Bkk, then it's Casanovas! :shrug

[Prospero]

It's a reason I have always instinctively avoided agencies

[Stavros]

It come up on different threads, but deserves its own discussion.

recently: http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=74044

previously:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=70121
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=66529

Are YOU supporting trafficking?

Either actively, from advertising here, writing as an agent, or posing as reviewer. All against current UK laws.

Or by closing your eyes to the obvious.
Such as when visiting or writing about the girls as tho the issue doesn't exist.

Thai girls are shipped to central london and held here under debt-bondage.

Not chained to walls, but having been lured under promises of riches to be made, are then subject to a huge debt for the arranging of travel, fake documentation, accommodation, photo/advert packaging, working premises/protection plus debt interest. And thats before they feed themselves, and whatever habit they have.

One day this will come out, and like the current appalling Saville revelations, we wonder why WE let it go on for so long.

its time to speak up. being silent is siding with the perpetrators.

i welcome a considered debate (oh dear, thats wishing)

I don't use escorts any more, and when I did never used an agency, and I do not condone or excuse any form of trafficking; but if this concerns you to the degree that it appears to, can I assume that you are going to present your evidence to the Metropolitan Police in order to have this 'trafficking' stopped?

[gslang]

im glad u asked that. ive asked myself the same question, how far should one speakup?

theres a concern how far reaching the consequences will be.

99.99% of those escorting are breaking the law to some degree, including tax avoidance.

would u want some plod going methodically thru Eros, Birchplace?
the knock on effect could b wide ranging. and those we consider innocent, honest could be detrimentally effected.

i was hoping that perhaps greater awareness or open discussion would lead to some self-policing, as people involved.. potential clients, advertisers make more informed decisions and reject any involvement in this business.

At least its a start. Rather than the moral panicking being used as an excuse to clamp down on any type of sex work, at least we can vote with our feet (or how many inches).

[rodinuk]

99.99% of those escorting are breaking the law to some degree, including tax avoidance.

Kudos for starting the thread but you have to remain objective in your argument - I do not buy the allegation that only 1 in 10000 escorts are legal. I don't buy figures emanating from the porthole of Dennis Mcshane (how are the mighty fallen!) and his ilk either who like to spin urban mythical statistics in pursuit of their goal of criminalising payforplay outright.

The taxation issue was discussed on another thread:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=61829

The change in the law to strict liability for procuring a trafficked escort is also worth repeating:


Obviously even a single trafficked person is a problem, however the aforementioned politicians like to quote (unsubstantiated) figures in the tens of thousands in order to seek the adoption of the Swedish model whereby punters who seek payforplay are criminalised.

To say that the problem only exists in the news is totally naive. The recent change in the law makes it illegal for the client if he procures a provider for sex and that provider turns out to be trafficked and then he can be arrested and fined up to £1000 and gain a criminal record. Even the act of procurement is enough even if you were unaware that they were trafficked. This is one of only two laws on the statute book where strict liability applies (makes a person legally responsible for the damage and loss caused by his or her acts and omissions regardless of whether they were actually to blame).

[FreddieGomez]

most tranny chasers are all for trafficking though.

[gslang]

Im happy to be corrected over this. What i was trying to say is the legal aspects around escorting are grey and im sure many transgress.

I appreciate a number of UK-resident tgirls do their best to comply, as they are committed to living here. I doubt any of the visitors do. My concern was that major investigation would have uncertain knock on effects.

I welcome you highlighting the fact that clients liable even if they are unaware.

Im not trying to spin unrealistic statistics, but a basic analysis of the numbers advertising

... 201 paid for adverts on Eros is a good starting base. of which well over half by the same group, with multiple names for mayb 30. they also manage GGs and what other lines of business.

Of the 201... how many do you think are truly independent?

I would suggest that almost all the visiting girls have to make some co-sharing/hosting arrangements. I dont see anything wrong there, but recognise the london marketplace for what it is. I remember when there were 50 adverts on eros and it was good business for those working here.

But im also sure the true independents are being driven out... out of central london and out the business.

[LibertyHarkness]

you dont need to be in london to make tons of money escorting anymore ... why work somewhere where there is huge numbers of competition all the time ..

[Stavros]

Im happy to be corrected over this. What i was trying to say is the legal aspects around escorting are grey and im sure many transgress.

I appreciate a number of UK-resident tgirls do their best to comply, as they are committed to living here. I doubt any of the visitors do. My concern was that major investigation would have uncertain knock on effects.

I welcome you highlighting the fact that clients liable even if they are unaware.

Im not trying to spin unrealistic statistics, but a basic analysis of the numbers advertising

... 201 paid for adverts on Eros is a good starting base. of which well over half by the same group, with multiple names for mayb 30. they also manage GGs and what other lines of business.

Of the 201... how many do you think are truly independent?

I would suggest that almost all the visiting girls have to make some co-sharing/hosting arrangements. I dont see anything wrong there, but recognise the london marketplace for what it is. I remember when there were 50 adverts on eros and it was good business for those working here.

But im also sure the true independents are being driven out... out of central london and out the business.

I understand the difficulty, its your call but it is worth pointing out the situation so that people can decide for themselves not to use agencies. I don't doubt most girls are aware of the reality in the UK, but much of the foreign trade is driven by poverty at home or lack of alternative choices. I think these days the sex trade has a mix of coercion among some, and free choices among others, I know of two independent Filipinas on the Asian circuit (only one of whom I have met) who have done well financially out of the business and bought property for themselves and their families at home, and much more. They are good with money and would be successful in any other business, whereas there are girls who just spend everything they get and are forever in need. One can only hope that the Thai girls you refer to manage to survive their time in London without serious long term damage and make enough of a profit for it to have been worthwhile. But yes, agencies should be avoided.

[oifarang]

I have mentioned the trafficked Thais many times but on the whole people ignore the fact.
One of the traffickers posts here and people ask her advice on who to see !

There must be 50 Thai ladyboys advertising on Eros in London now.

How do you think these ladyboys get visas ?

Answer - fake passports.

[londonpirate]

I ve seen my share of thai tgirls I think most of them are here freely. I cant say the same about asian female escorts which I think for the most are pimped out.
I also know some long term residents of this country who are clearly independent.

[gslang]

You have rightly raised this issue before, and like me are disappointed many people continue to ignore whats right in front of them.

Yesterday i checked thru the current Eros listing for central london these girls account for 114 out of 197. At $100 for base advert for 28days thats $11,400 plus $000's more on banners and premium positioning.

Thats just for one site, there are several others ... including this site, and one of the traffickers is even identified as a Official HA Sponsor.

It is a concern that those benefiting from this revenue in such challenging times dont want to rock the boat.

Also, other girls are being squeezed out, how can they fairly compete when their ads are lost among these multiple adverts, and thats before u add on the fakes appearing all the time. Plus independents have to secure their own accommodation in this expensive city, undoubtably paying a higher per week cost. Its typical practise to undercut and undermine the opposition.

[londonpirate]

:Bowdown:Libby, no competition when you re in town
:fuckin:

[rodinuk]

OK so you've highlighted the problem, what is it that needs to change?

[nysprod]

OK so you've highlighted the problem, what is it that needs to change?

Not to take you to task, but it's so obvious...

[Dino Velvet]

I know girls go into the life for many different reasons but I'm definitely against anyone being forced like this. I'm sure I've been with many before in massage parlors from Korea. I see independent girls now that I get to know pretty well over time.

[sukumvit boy]

This is not just a problem in Thailand,but throughout SE Asia.
You can help by reporting your suspicians to the appropriate authorities.

[rodinuk]

Not to take you to task, but it's so obvious...

So obvious that you cannot say what it is exactly?

How is it going to be achieved? Here's some brainstorming ideas:

Clients don't visit Thai escorts because the escorts are Thai?
- not many clients read this board or would even know the law about strict liability

Ban Thai ladyboys from the UK?
- unfair discrimination - could improve passport checks though - how about a special channel for Thais at every port/airport?

Ban escorts completely?
- please the Christian right in one fell swoop

Ban agencies?
- I suspect most of them are operating from overseas sites anyway

Ban clients?
- how do you identify them?

Legislate the Swedish model where the client is considered a criminal for procuring sex from an individual?

Legislate the American model where prostitution is illegal?

Legislate the Australian et al model where brothels are legal?
the Victorian attitude of the establishment won't buy this

Start a petition on the Government site and hope to get 100,000 for another debate on prostitution?

Wait for a Labour government to return and do something but hope that Harman/McTaggart et al. don't get their way?

Report the agency people to Crimestoppers?

My original comment was in the hope that it might get people thinking about solutions, leaving objective comments in support of gslang's request for a serious debate rather than fluffy or non-contributory comments

[rodinuk]

An additional question?

If you visited a Thai escort who was once trafficked but who now operates completely independently of their own free will is this illegal under the strict liability law?

[nysprod]

So obvious that you cannot say what it is exactly?

How is it going to be achieved? Here's some brainstorming ideas:

Clients don't visit Thai escorts because the escorts are Thai?
- not many clients read this board or would even know the law about strict liability

Well, I said obvious, not easy. If clients didn't use the agencies who specialize in these girls there wouldn't be trafficking...less demand = less supply....obviously, that's not going to happen, it's been going on for 1000's of years...

[Manclad]

50 Thai Ladyboys in London says 1 Poster all on fake Passports, so no one at the Embassy where the Visas was issued, no one at immigration/customs at Heathrow etc has noticed hundreds (over the years) Thai Ladyboys all arriving on fake passports. (Not Thai passports I assume as then the visa would not have to be fake) so Thais arriving on what say 'Canadian passports' and no one notices!!!

Thats a long stretch to be honest