Not ANOTHER "stand your ground" incident...

[Willie Escalade]

Im placing it here before it gets moved to the Political section or even deleted...

http://www.classwarfareexists.com/white-man-kills-black-teenager-over-an-argument-about-loud-music/

This sounds like the Trayvon Martin case all over again…because another black teenage student is killed under suspicious circumstances. Michael David Dunn, a 45-year-old vice president of Dunn & Dunn Data Systems in Vero Beach, was in Jacksonville this past weekend for his son’s wedding. The Orlando Sentinel details what happened on Friday when Dunn, a gun collector, encountered Jordan Russell Davis, a student at nearby magnet school Samuel W. Wolfson High.

Jordan Russell Davis, 17, and several other teenagers were sitting in a sport utility vehicle in the parking lot when Dunn pulled up next to them in a car and asked them to turn down their music. Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice. Jordan was sitting in the back seat. No one else was hurt.

Jacksonville homicide Lt. Rob Schoonover said:

Our victim was shot a couple of times. …They were listening to the music. It was loud; they [other teens] admitted that. But I mean that is not a reason for someone to open fire on them.When his girlfriend returned to the car, Dunn drove off, admitting to her that he “fired at these kids.” After hearing a news report that someone died in the shooting at their Jacksonville hotel, the couple returned to their home to Brevard County, Fla. Witnesses of the shooting took down Dunn’s license plate number, which, on Saturday, helped police find Dunn’s house, where he was then arrested.

Dunn claims to have felt “threatened” before opening fire and is therefore claiming self-defense, Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which earned infamy after Trayvon Martin’s killing, could be at issue in this case. After Martin’s death, Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) appointed a task force to review the law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense, but the panel didn’t recommend any significant changes.

Jacksonville Attorney Gene Nichols, however, said that using the “Stand Your Ground” defense is going to be a tough case to make:

Mr. Dunn is going to have to answer the question, ‘Why did you not call the sheriff’s office? If you are reasonably protecting yourself, why did you leave the scene, get in the car, and the next day, flee the jurisdiction of Duval County?’ … There’s no indication that Jordan or anyone else in that car had a gun, there’s no indication that they were any threat to Mr. Dunn.

There should be an amendment to this law. It should state that if involved in an altercation where an unarmed opponent is killed, the perpetrator cannot claim “Stand your Ground”, and automatically waive all their rights to a jury trial and be sentenced to life imprisonment in the harshest penitentiary in the state of Florida.

:smh

[giovanni_hotel]

Jeezus Christ.
Fucking piece of shit.

I can't count how many times growing up I've been told by some oldhead when I was a passenger in another car to 'turn that goddamn music down!!'

We would say 'fuck off', flip him the bird or laugh and our cars would split never to be seen again.
I assume this is a universal experience of most adult male's teen years.

Since when do you have the right to murder someone because their music is too loud??
I hope this prick dies in prison.

[GrimFusion]

I don't see how Florida's "stand your ground" legislation would apply in this case unless the defense can prove the teenagers exited their vehicle and threatened Dunn. The kids weren't breaking any laws by playing their music loudly outside of restricted noise ordinance hours and if the prosecution can show the teenagers remained in their vehicle, this is an open-and-shut case. Dunn had every opportunity to leave the scene and contact the local authorities to register a noise complaint, but he didn't.

On the other hand, I'm kind of getting sick and tired of watching cases like this turn into national news. Let the locals flip out and allow the state to deal with the court proceedings. This case has little to do with national concern.

[doctor screw]

@ Will....You should hear Dunn's lawyer response...FUCKING GOLD!!!!! lol

[GrimFusion]

@ Will....You should hear Dunn's lawyer response...FUCKING GOLD!!!!! lol

Mind providing a link? I've tried googling it, but all I can find are single-sentence excerpts from Dunn's defense attorney; not a full quote. Most of them have been pretty freakin' goofy, though.

[Willie Escalade]

@ Will....You should hear Dunn's lawyer response...FUCKING GOLD!!!!! lol


Mind providing a link? I've tried googling it, but all I can find are single-sentence excerpts from Dunn's defense attorney; not a full quote. Most of them have been pretty freakin' goofy, though.

That is a statement I'd LOVE to hear.

I'll give the lawyer the benefit of the doubt. Even if they think what Dunn did is bullshit and feels he should rot in jail, they ARE trying to defend him and get him off [pause], so they've got to do the job right. It's like Johnnie Cochran defending O.J...

[danthepoetman]

It’s ridiculous how it is that a simple gun gives some guys way too much power. Prejudice, stupidity, arrogance and egotism are amongst the good causes of that. There definitively should be some severe gun control laws. Stuff like that should not happen in a country like the US. Somewhere in the Middle East during some conflict, maybe, but not in the US. In all of the highly industrialized countries, it is the only one in which it happens on a regular basis. That’s nonsense.
What if justice was to stop sending people in jail for drug possession or even trafficking, and starts sending them there for weapon’s possession instead? Wouldn’t that make more sense?

[nysprod]

I think this guy should be convicted on one fact alone: He was going into a convenience store, which means he was going to be there for what, 5 minutes maximum, and he just HAD to tell the kids in the car to turn the music down??

I mean, damn, these are just kids...chances are that if he would have just minded his own business this whole thing never would of happened...

[speck]

I would like to point out that everyone jumping to conclusions here without knowing the facts...and lets be clear here, mainstream media often gets the facts incorrect, let alone a biased reporting source such as the one OP posted...is making a fairly large mistake.

Wait to pass judgement until more is known and less is in dispute. You'd expect the same for yourself, why not expect it here?

[bluesoul]

Jeezus Christ.
Fucking piece of shit.

I can't count how many times growing up I've been told by some oldhead when I was a passenger in another car to 'turn that goddamn music down!!'

We would say 'fuck off', flip him the bird or laugh and our cars would split never to be seen again.
I assume this is a universal experience of most adult male's teen years.

Since when do you have the right to murder someone because their music is too loud??
I hope this prick dies in prison.

i don't think this guy had the right to kill anyone over loud muzik, but why play it so loud in the first place? and why, would you say "fuck off" then flip them "the bird or laugh" when someone asks you to turn it down?

sooner or later, you're bound to cross the wrong person, as this young gentleman obviously did.

[bluesoul]

I mean, damn, these are just kids...chances are that if he would have just minded his own business this whole thing never would of happened...

it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?

[TempestTS]

The only reason any defense lawyer would even take this case is this guy is loaded with cash - I kinda wish douche bags like this should have to represent themselves and truly be responsible for their own actions

Fuck Hate Crimes and bigotry

[GroobySteven]

it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?

Why the fuck should they?
I've been the guy telling them to turn the music down - I've also been the guy telling someone to fuck off for telling me to turn the music down.

I'm sure if the option was turn the music down or I'll murder you, it would be a different story but some busybody (like me) telling them to turn it down, fuck off..

[GroobySteven]

I would like to point out that everyone jumping to conclusions here without knowing the facts...and lets be clear here, mainstream media often gets the facts incorrect, let alone a biased reporting source such as the one OP posted...is making a fairly large mistake.

Wait to pass judgement until more is known and less is in dispute. You'd expect the same for yourself, why not expect it here?


I agree. MSNBC good enough?

http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/28/black-teens-shooting-revives-stand-your-ground-debate/



Robin Lemonidis of Melbourne said Tuesday night that someone in the red sport-utility vehicle that was next to her client’s car pulled a shotgun on him and that he fired in self defense. “He acted the way any responsible firearms owner would act in a similar situation because a shotgun was aimed at him,” she said.
Jacksonville police said no weapon was found in the car. “How hard did they look,” Lemonidis said. “Have they done an entire search?”
Lemonidis tried to explain her contention in an interview with WJXT-TV (http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer-Murder-suspect-saw-shotgun-in-teens-SUV/-/475880/17566116/-/ku79pw/-/index.html), telling them that “it certainly would not have been in the vehicle when they looked unless they had stopped it immediately, which I doubt they did.” In the absence of this supposed weapon, however, Dunn’s attorney explained why her client felt “threatened” by three kids blasting loud music:

“Uh, ‘Kill that mother (expletive),’ ‘That mother (expletive) is dead,’ ‘You dead (expletive),’” Lemonidis said Dunn heard from the teens. “And he sees that much of a shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV, which is up higher than his Jetta, and all he sees are heavily tinted front windows that are up and the back windows that are down, and the car has at least four black men in it, and he doesn’t know how old anyone is, and he doesn’t know anything, but he knows a shotgun when he sees one because he got his first gun as a gift from his grandparents when he was in third grade.”

[GrimFusion]

I would like to point out that everyone jumping to conclusions here without knowing the facts...and lets be clear here, mainstream media often gets the facts incorrect, let alone a biased reporting source such as the one OP posted...is making a fairly large mistake.

Wait to pass judgement until more is known and less is in dispute. You'd expect the same for yourself, why not expect it here?

Agreed. That's why I don't think cases like this should make national news; at least not before court proceedings. Syndication all over national television, the internet, and radio opens the case to interpretation by all sorts of people who like to add in their opinions and before long, the opinions start sounding more like hard facts.

I've been reading all sorts of claims about the case. One article said no firearms were found in the SUV or in the possession of the victims. Another article I read accused the four victims of being gang members and assumed Dunn was correct in his actions. It's really disheartening to see how all this media attention is defining the case before evidence has even been presented.

@Seanchai: Thanks for transcribing that. I was in the midst of doing it myself before I refreshed the page and saw your post.

[giovanni_hotel]

i don't think this guy had the right to kill anyone over loud muzik, but why play it so loud in the first place? and why, would you say "fuck off" then flip them "the bird or laugh" when someone asks you to turn it down?

sooner or later, you're bound to cross the wrong person, as this young gentleman obviously did.

Everytime I leave the house inevitably I encounter during the day some jerk playing HIS music too loud for my tastes.

When I was a teenager, the only adults I really listened to were teachers, coaches or my mom. So if a random told me to turn down my tunes in a car I was riding in, he was probably getting cussed out.

SO what?
If that response from a teen is going to result in gunfire from some asshole who's ears were offended IN PUBLIC, our society is so fucked.

WHat I don't understand is why some people have a knee jerk response in almost all cases similar to this one to identify WITH THE SHOOTER.

THis asshole went out of his way to confront these teens when he didn't have to. His life was not threatened. His ego was.
SO allegedly these teens pulled a shotgun on him and he luckily got off his rounds before they could return fire??

I call BULLSHIT.
If a gangbanger pulls a sawed off out the window at you, and you draw your own weapon, there's going to be a mutual exchange of gunfire.

These kids pulled a shotgun but were too afraid to fire back even though they were being shot at??lol

What part of this story do some of you still need to hear before you realize the shooter is full of shit to his eyeballs??

You break into someone's house, you deserve to get shot.

If you play your music too loud in your own car, no you don't.

[bluesoul]

Why the fuck should they?

to avoid a conflict and (possibly) not disturb others.


I've been the guy telling them to turn the music down - I've also been the guy telling someone to fuck off for telling me to turn the music down.

i've been there too, though i've often preferred to listen to muzik loudly on headphones.

[bluesoul]

SO what?

i think society is fucked every time someone thinks "so what".

[GrimFusion]

Can we all stop with this "our society is fucked" nonsense?
Anybody is capable of anything at any time. Despite that, most people act decently enough. Our society would be pretty screwed if closer to half of the population were shooting each other over complete bull shit like this, but that's not reality. Not to say most people are inherently kind; that isn't true, but just because you know you wouldn't personally do anything like this doesn't mean it's fair to assume that everyone else would. You're not the only sane and compassionate person in the world despite what news media would have you believe.

[giovanni_hotel]

i think society is fucked every time someone thinks "so what".


If someone playing their music too loud in their car is the biggest offense you have to deal with in a day, you live a charmed life.

Loud music from cars is not a big deal. Definitely not worth pulling a gun on someone for.

Sorry but loud music is 'so what?'

I admit 'our society is soo fucked' is melodramatic but I still don't see two sides in this case.

[bluesoul]

If someone playing their music too loud in their car is the biggest offense you have to deal with in a day, you live a charmed life.

you say that like it's a bad thing. should i go around looking for much worse problems so i can easily deal with people playing loud muzik?

i just don't see how loud muzik is a positive thing. and i never thought your statement about "our society is fucked" was melodramatic at all. i honestly thought it was pretty accurate. and i also agree this isn't worth pulling a gun out for, but there are people who will use any excuse to use force.

[Genetic]

There should be an amendment to this law. It should state that if involved in an altercation where an unarmed opponent is killed, the perpetrator cannot claim “Stand your Ground”, and automatically waive all their rights to a jury trial and be sentenced to life imprisonment in the harshest penitentiary in the state of Florida.

Yeah let's just throw away legal rights for the hell of it!

Let's just say that an 18 year old girl is walking home alone at night when a man grabs her and tries to drag her into a lane with the intention of murdering or raping her. If she shot him, under your point of view, she'd not be entitled to any sort of legal defense because she shot an unarmed man.

What about a single mother who wakes in the middle of the night to find an intruder in her home? Or an elderly person?

Any law can be abused, but that doesn't mean it should be repealed and people should be jailed indefinitely without a trial. It's the USA not Saudi Arabia.

[amberskyi]

it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?

really muzik?

[amberskyi]

come on, we all have been young, reckless and wild (im still there).a part of that is blasting music and rocking out with your friends.hardly hoodlum behavior.i wonder if the guy would of said anything if they were bumping justin beiber or some other pop shit

[TSPornFan]

I am disgusted by this. I hope he gets a painful death sentence. I've had my disagreements with people. However, I have never once thought about doing this to someone.

From personal experience there was a racist employee at my job. She said to my face that she feared me because of my skin color. She said many other things about blacks being criminals, dangerous, stupid, etc. She said she felt like calling the cops when she sees black people hanging out.

[nysprod]

it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?

Are you fucking utterly out of your fucking mind? This guy was gonna be in and out of the store and on his way in like 5 minutes...I can see if your neighbor is blasting music at 4 in the morning, but in this situation?

[dskreet2]

Maybe next time if these kids start shooting right after some old or older kook confronts them for whatever reason, then they can claim "Stand Your Ground" because they felt the old person was going to hurt them. MAYBE after that happens a few times, then these situations would stop and these jerks that supported the flimsy interpretation of this law would force the state to adjust the law. Just a thought!

Violence will eventually beget more violence.

[Willie Escalade]

i don't think this guy had the right to kill anyone over loud muzik, but why play it so loud in the first place? and why, would you say "fuck off" then flip them "the bird or laugh" when someone asks you to turn it down?

sooner or later, you're bound to cross the wrong person, as this young gentleman obviously did.
I didn't put over $2,000 into my car's sound system to play MY music at a level someone OUTSIDE of MY PROPERTY who DID NOT contribute to it wants me to play it at. Unless I'm breaking the law, and the proper authorities are telling me its wrong, I'm going to play it at the level I want to.

There's an ordinance like this in the community I live at. When I'm in the property, the music goes off because that's the rule. When I'm in a public place the music is at a level I prefer.

And I sure wish some of these folks would define "loud".


it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?
Who gave the man any authority to tell complete strangers what to do? They weren't on his property; apparently they were in a public place. If they weren't breaking any laws and if they were minding their own business, there isn't a problem...except the shooter's ego problem.

I still call bullshit.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Jeezus Christ.
Fucking piece of shit.

I can't count how many times growing up I've been told by some oldhead when I was a passenger in another car to 'turn that goddamn music down!!'

We would say 'fuck off', flip him the bird or laugh and our cars would split never to be seen again.
I assume this is a universal experience of most adult male's teen years.

Since when do you have the right to murder someone because their music is too loud??
I hope this prick dies in prison.

ROTFLMAO ...... i remember the spring of 86' i was sitting with a friend in his Ford Escort sedan in the DHR/DFACS parking lot at aprox 230 am when a Boom Boxer decided to use the parking lot as a short cut on his nocturnal stroll . He had the volume about 3/4 and i politely but at a voice he could hear to turn the volume down . He thought that meant for him to turn the volume up to full . My friend then told him to turn it down and was given that FU Witey look as he kept strutten thru the lot . My friend decided to drove over to make sure the boom boxer understood what he was supposed to do . He was told to Turn That Shit Off . Before he could give us some unauthorized lip he saw my friend's badge and then mine . I'm sure you know what he did then .

[danthepoetman]

i don't think this guy had the right to kill anyone over loud muzik, but why play it so loud in the first place? and why, would you say "fuck off" then flip them "the bird or laugh" when someone asks you to turn it down?
sooner or later, you're bound to cross the wrong person, as this young gentleman obviously did.

it wouldn't have happened either if the kids had turned down the muzik when they were asked. this way, they would still have enjoyed their entertainment, and nobody would have been bothered by any loud noises. what made you see the other option as being better than this one?
This is total nonsense, Bluesoul. I really don’t understand how (and many other people who uses a similar argument) it is that you don’t see the rational consequences of what you’re saying here. Of course you can judge that “morally”, these kids could have or should have lowered the volume of their music. But it doesn’t have anything to do with murder, doesn’t have anything to do whatsoever with some guy shooting at them to kill them, does it? It’s a wish, an ideal, something desirable, not in any way something "necessary". In other words, it doesn’t have a thing to do with this concrete situation in particular. You have to be able to make the difference, here.
By implying that they “should” (in absolute) have lowered the music to avoid the situation, or by implying that “sooner or later” they would inevitably have “crossed the wrong person”, you justify the shooter’s actions at least partly. It’s a matter of very simple logic: if you think they “should” have in the abstract, you justify the crime.
I had the same argument with someone else on another thread. A gay man had revealed his love for another one on a tv show. The latter was so mad that as soon as the show was over, he shot the former. Someone argued with me that the gay guy never should have revealed it the way he did. It’s obvious in such circumstances, that the killer was, at least to a certain extent, justified in his action. My interlocutors couldn't understand what I was saying.
Morality, tact, desirability, do not justify murder in any way, of course.

As to your argument, Willie, I understand your anger and anxiety. We don’t want to see a murderer, someone who killed a kid for no reason except his own prejudices, be sent free on some bullshit. Let’s see how this all plays out. Maybe justice will prevail this time.

[Cecil Rhodes]

I don't see how Florida's "stand your ground" legislation would apply in this case unless the defense can prove the teenagers exited their vehicle and threatened Dunn. The kids weren't breaking any laws by playing their music loudly outside of restricted noise ordinance hours and if the prosecution can show the teenagers remained in their vehicle, this is an open-and-shut case. Dunn had every opportunity to leave the scene and contact the local authorities to register a noise complaint, but he didn't.

On the other hand, I'm kind of getting sick and tired of watching cases like this turn into national news. Let the locals flip out and allow the state to deal with the court proceedings. This case has little to do with national concern.

Correct, the National Media should concern themselves to National Issues ,,,,, like Lindsey Lohen for instance :dancing::dancing:

[Stavros]

According to the news report the incident took place in a gas station, so doesn't that mean there will be footage from CCTV cameras? And I am sure the details of this case will change over time as different versions of the event become known.