Make Sure You Have Valid Photo ID!

[francisfkudrow]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)

[Prospero]

Good post Francis....

[onmyknees]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)


You're right...put it on the Political Boards...as it's a political post and not a public service announcement thanks to the commentary....and while we're over there please show some proof (names, addresses, etc) of Floridians who are legit citizens, still breathing, and not felons that were purged for as you put it..."political reasons".

[Prospero]

Even over here in the UK we know the tricks the Repulsivans are up to to try and stop ordinary people voting in several states they control.

This is NOT a political post. It's advice to ordinary Americans who have a right to vote - whatever their colour or political allegience. Of course convicted felons are an exception - like you perhaps OMK. Of course we all understand why you want this to have a small audience.

[GroobySteven]

You're right...put it on the Political Boards...as it's a political post and not a public service announcement thanks to the commentary....and while we're over there please show some proof (names, addresses, etc) of Floridians who are legit citizens, still breathing, and not felons that were purged for as you put it..."political reasons".

Yeah ... I think we'll leave it right where it is. Thanks for proving a point though.

[Willie Escalade]

I keep four valid forms of ID with me at all times, AND I'm registered to vote.

Thn again...California usually doesn't pull bullshit stunts like the states listed above.

[trish]

usually, i just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in florida, georgia, idaho, indiana, kansas, lousiana, michigan, pennsylvania, south dakota or tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo id, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have id as well.

this is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (let's face it, we already know how georgia, kansas and tennessee will be voting)

also, if you live in florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

pass it along.

(yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)

thanks.

[sucka4chix]

I personally always found it odd that I DIDN'T need photo ID to vote.

[trish]

~bump~

[Jericho]

If you're convicted, you lose your right to vote, even if you've served your time?
Is that any felony?

[Jackal]

Different states, different laws in regard to felonies.

[Prospero]

For those who want to see quite the full implications of this trickery... this is an excellent essay by a professor of law at Florida State University, Diane Robert.

IT'S FLORIDA, STUPID

As the great baseball player and master tautologist
Yogi Berra remarked, “it’s like déja vu all over
again.” This year’s presidential contest between
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney threatens to
become a replay of Florida’s inglorious election
imbroglio of 2000, those heady five weeks when the state counted
and recounted votes, chased butterfly ballots, and examined
pregnant chads to figure out who had actually won: George W
Bush or Al Gore. It was not an edifying spectacle. Jimmy Carter,
the former president whose Atlanta-based Carter Center sends
election observers to the likes of Paraguay, Nicaragua and East
Timor, declared that the “basic international requirements for a
fair election are missing in Florida.” Fidel Castro called Florida
a “banana republic.” The rest of the world began to refer to
the state as “FloriDUH.” The result of this year’s presidential
election could come down to Florida once more and the way it is
arrived at could be just as unsatisfactory as in 2000.
Thanks to improved voting technology, Florida no longer
has chads to dimple, dangle or otherwise, and happily, the butterfly
ballot is extinct. But Florida has not become the model
of democracy all parties promised post-2000. Both Democrats
and Republicans anticipate trouble on 6th November, election
day, and perhaps beyond. Bill Daley, the former White House
has warned the Obama campaign team they’d betwho worked for George W Bush during the last recount battle,
says Republicans will “have enough lawyers to handle all situations”
in Florida. Republicans raise the spectre of voter fraud,
with felons and foreigners illicitly swinging the election in favour
of Democrats and Barack Obama. Democrats say the real problem
is voter suppression, pointing to neo-Jim Crow restrictions
imposed by Republicans. All this takes place against the backdrop
of Florida’s swelling Latino population—in pursuing “illegal”
voters, Republicans risk alienating a crucial constituency.
In 2000, 12,000 Floridians were wrongly disenfranchised. The
private company hired to “clean up” the state’s electoral rolls,
striking off people who were dead or felons or otherwise ineligible,
made a mess of the job. Not that the candidate’s brother Governor
Jeb Bush or Secretary of State Katherine Harris seemed
overly concerned. The database was so slipshod that Floridians
with the same birthdate as criminals incarcerated in another
state were turned away from polling places. One Johnny Jackson,
Jr, an upstanding Florida citizen by all accounts, got confused
with one John Fitzgerald Jackson, who was serving time in
a Texas prison. Violating the space-time continuum, several hundred
people were listed as convicted of felonies some years in the
future. Harris, at the time both Florida’s chief elections officer
and co-chair of George W Bush’s Florida presidential campaign,
was not only nonchalant about these “false positives,” she let it
be known that she wanted more names to purge, not fewer. While
African Americans made up 11 per cent of Florida’s electorate,
according to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University,
they comprised nearly half of those removed from the voter
lists. Since African Americans favoured Gore over Bush by 85 to
15 per cent, it’s a safe bet that if even a quarter of the disenfranchised
had voted, the election would have had a different result.
As it was, the United States Supreme Court declared Bush the
winner in Florida by a total of 537 votes.
These days, Katherine Harris is a private citizen, and Jeb
Bush is rumoured to be plotting a political future beyond 2012
when his surname may be a bit less toxic. Yet Florida is at it
again. Charlie Crist, the moderate Republican (recently turned
independent) who replaced Jeb Bush as governor in 2007, had
relaxed Florida’s restrictions on voting by former felons, arguing
that when they had paid their debt to society they should regain
the rights of citizens. When hardliner Rick Scott took office in
2011, he overturned Crist’s more liberal policy—clearly too many
of the wrong sort had been allowed to cast ballots in 2008, giving
Florida to Barack Obama by 200,000 votes.
Scott and the Republican-controlled legislature pushed
through new laws making it difficult for non-profit non-partisan
groups such as the League of Women Voters and the Boy
Scouts to sign people up to vote. Completed registration forms
had to be presented at the county election supervisor’s office not
one minute more than 48 hours from when they were signed, on
pain of prosecution. In Okaloosa County, Florida, the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People tried to register
new voters during January’s Martin Luther King Day weekend,
only to be threatened with a thousand dollars in fines and
a possible third-degree felony—they failed to deliver their forms
within 48 hours because the county offices were closed on Monday
in observance of the federal holiday. The NAACP was soon
contacted by the state elections chief: “We appreciate you going
out and registering voters,” the letter read. “However, if you’re
late anymore we’re going to turn this over to the Florida Department
of Justice for prosecution.”
As soon as the law was implemented in May, new voter registration
plummeted. While Florida’s population went up in
the past four years, the number of people signing up for a voter
card, without which they cannot cast a ballot, has gone down by
81,000. Several advocacy groups sued. An exasperated-sounding
federal judge overturned much of the law, saying, “If the goal is
to discourage voter registration drives and thus also to make it
harder for new voters to register, this may work. Otherwise there
is little reason for such a requirement.”
Unfortunately, the part of the law the judge didn’t throw
out allows the state to restrict early voting. Formerly,
citizens could cast a vote at the county courthouse
up to two weeks before the day of the election. This
period has now been reduced to eight days. Florida’s Republican
masters claim it’s a money-saving measure and anyway, there
are still eight early voting days. Democrats, however, charge that
Republicans want to depress turn-out by their voters, especially
students, the elderly, hourly-wage workers who can’t afford to
be off work for three or more hours standing in an election-day
queue, and African Americans. In 2008, 54 per cent of early voters
were black. The Sunday before election day when churches
mobilise “Souls to the Polls” efforts was especially popular. This
year, voting is also not allowed on the Sunday before election day.
Ion Sancho, who is the elections supervisor of Leon County, Florida,
predicts that, on election day, voters will have to wait several
hours and that precinct workers will be overwhelmed, saying he
fears Florida’s polling locations won’t be able to accommodate
the 8m voters projected to turn out in the general election.
Republicans have not been sympathetic. Mike Bennett, state
senator, argued that in Africa “the people in the desert literally
walk two- and three-hundred miles so they can have the opportunity
to do what we do, and we want to make it more convenient?”
However blatant these attempts to discourage the Democratic
vote, watchdog groups say that they’re small beer compared to
Republicans’ renewed attempts to purge the voter rolls. Last
year, Rick Scott, the governor of Florida, ordered his secretary
of state to scour the rolls for ineligible voters. He says he merely
wants to make sure that everyone who casts a ballot is a genuine
citizen of the US and not some border-jumping Mexican or smuggled
Salvadoran, a dead person or perhaps a cartoon character
(one “Mickey Mouse” did once attempt to register in Orlando,
but failed). A preliminary cull of 182,000 names was dispatched
to the state’s 67 county elections supervisors for verification. It
did not take long before they noticed that the list was curiously
light on white people and Republicans and heavy on African
Americans, Latinos, and those registered as either independents
or Democrats. Nevertheless, the supervisors did their jobs and
while they failed to scare up any members of the Choir Invisible
or denizens of Disney World, they did uncover a preponderance
of dodgy characters such as: Maureen Russo and Manoly Castro-
Williamson, two middle-aged ladies born in the exotic land
of Ohio; some second world war veterans including a 91-year-old
fellow named Bill Internicola who won the Bronze Star at the
Battle of the Bulge; and a great many recently naturalised citizens
eagerly looking forward to casting their first vote as Americans
and rather taken aback to be ordered either to produce their
papers or face jail time.
The problem with voter fraud (as practised by individual voters,
at least) is that it barely exists. The Brennan Center hasanalysed instances of “voter fraud” over the last four election
cycles and concludes that instances of it are rarer than being
struck by lightning or attacked by a shark. In an attempt to disprove
such studies, the Republican National Lawyers Association
prepared its own finding, a whopping 311 cases of alleged
voter fraud in the US over the past 15 years. Many of those cases
were thrown out of court, others involved mistakes (registering
twice, failing to report a change of address), a very few were
actually prosecuted. An investigation by the Tampa Bay Times,
Florida’s largest newspaper, revealed that of the state’s 11menrolled voters, 86 non-citizens have been unmasked and 46 of
those may have voted illegally at some point over the past couple
of decades. No prosecutions have been brought. Not exactly
an orgy of criminal behaviour at the ballot box. The Brennan
Center concludes: “The voter fraud phantom drives policy that
disenfranchises actual legitimate voters without a corresponding
actual benefit.”
Nevertheless, Republicans remain convinced that the only
way Democrats can win elections is by getting illegal aliens to
vote. One Wisconsin state senator recently praised his state’s
stringent new ID standards saying, “we believe the people who
cheat are more likely to vote against us.” Many Republicans still
believe Barack Obama won Florida in 2008 by “cheating” with
the help of groups such as the now-defunct Association of Community
Organisations for Reform Now (ACOR N), which focused
on registering the poor and members of ethnic minorities—and,
according to bitter Republicans, illegal immigrant voters. Never
mind the total lack of evidence; never mind that illegal immigrants
usually prefer to keep a low profile and try to avoid doing
things that would get them deported or sent to jail.
Legal immigrants, however, are another matter, and, in Florida
especially, a legitimate source of Republican worry. The
Democrats can count on the African-American vote, the women’s
vote and a substantial amount of votes from Jews and pensioners.
The Republicans know they’ll get most of the vote from
white people (or, as Romney’s advisor would have it, “Anglo Saxons”),
the affluent, anti-government Tea Party types and Christian
evangelicals. Latino voters will decide who wins Florida.
In 2000, Cubans made up the largest group by far of Latinos
in Florida. In 2012 there are almost as many Puerto Ricans (who
are American citizens) as Cubans. The “I-4 Corridor” (so-called
for the motorway which runs across the middle of Florida) has
seen its population increase by nearly half a million in the last
decade, of which 250,000 are Puerto Rican. Most of them lean
Democratic.
It used to be that Democrats would barely bother trying to get
Cuban votes: Cubans were militantly Republican, revering Ronald
Reagan for standing up to Fidel Castro. But lately Democrats
are making progress: in 2008, Barack Obama won 47 per cent of
the Cuban-American vote in Florida. He got more than 60 per
cent of the Puerto Rican vote. Recent polls indicate that Latinos
in Florida—and nationally—favour Obama by about two to one.
Republicans claim that’s only because Obama has pandered to them, appointing Sonia Sotomayor, a Puerto-Rican American,
to the Supreme Court and declaring that he would not deport
those who were brought to the US illegally as children. Though
Republicans point to some of their prominent Cuban-American
politicians, Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Senator
Marco Rubio to name two from Florida, the party has done
itself no favours with its refusal to help with the passage of the
DRE AM Act, which would allow young undocumented people
to join the US military or go to university as legal residents. Nor
have Republican-run states such as Alabama and Arizona, with
their unabashedly xenophobic new immigration laws, helped.
Arizona’s notorious sheriff Joe Arpaio, who described Mexicans
as “dirty” and who spent taxpayer money sending his “posse” to
Hawaii to “prove” that Barack Obama’s birth certificate was a
“fraud,” is currently on trial for detaining Latinos—or people he
thinks look sort of like Latinos—without probable cause. Even if,
despite the fond dreams of Democrats, the home state of Senator
John McCain will not be in play during this election, the publicity
surrounding Arpaio, the “your papers, please” legislation, and
the ban on teaching the history of Latinos in Arizona schools, has
helped drive Latinos firmly into the arms of Democrats.
This is frustrating to Republicans who realise their party cannot
survive if it remains an angry old white men’s club. After all,
the US is projected to become a “majority minority” nation by
2060, by which time Latinos will form the single largest ethnic
group. Jeb Bush, recast by default as a “moderate” (he’s also a
fluent Spanish speaker married to a Mexican American), suggested
that Mitt Romney needs to ditch the Tea Party rhetoric:
“Don’t just talk about Hispanics and say immediately we must
have controlled borders. It’s kind of insulting.”
The general election is just two months away and what happens
in Florida may depend on what happens in the courts. Voting
rights groups are suing over access to the polls before election
day; the governor is urging supervisors of elections to keep purging
their lists, though federal law forbids that within 90 days of
an election. Because of Florida’s Old South segregationist past—
its unconstitutional disenfranchisement of former slaves in 1877,
its implementation of poll taxes and literacy tests, its long, hateful
history of denying people of colour the vote—the Department
of Justice, under the Voting Rights Act of 1965, will have the final
say over the way in which Florida votes. No matter what happens,
just about everybody believes that the election will come down to
whoever gets their voters out—and which votes get counted

[Erika1487]

To the OP of this thread....
If your not smart enough to bring your ID with you on election day maybe you should not go to the polls.....
Btw I am in support all voter ID laws :geek:

[Faldur]

Kind of funny.. you can't get into the democratic convention without a valid photo id.

[Prospero]

But you could carry your concealed weapon into the Republican convention....

[Prospero]

Well you WOULD be Ericka - as a diehard and (by your own admission) unquestioning Republican. They're designed to exlude Democrat voters - especially from Ethnic minorities. Read the piece by the professor from Florida.

[Erika1487]

Kind of funny.. you can't get into the democratic convention without a valid photo id. Faldur for the win ;)

[Erika1487]

Well you WOULD be Ericka - as a diehard and (by your own admission) unquestioning Republican. They're designed to exlude Democrat voters - especially from Ethnic minorities. Read the piece by the professor from Florida.
Why is it soooooooo difficult to understand that Voter ID laws curb VOTER FRAUD! :smh:

[Ecstatic]

I thought this was going to be a cautionary post to models who forget to bring their valid photo IDs to a shoot.....

[GroobySteven]

I thought this was going to be a cautionary post to models who forget to bring their valid photo IDs to a shoot.....

Models wouldn't do that would they?

[Cuchulain]

Why is it soooooooo difficult to understand that Voter ID laws curb VOTER FRAUD! :smh:
What voter fraud? Voter fraud is one thing and one thing only - one person trying to vote as someone else. That's the only type of fraud that these new voter ID laws can curb. Guess what? It just doesn't happen. When Pennsylvania's new voter ID law went to court, the state admitted they had no evidence of voter fraud (they called it 'in-person' voter fraud) occurring in Pa or anywhere else. They didn't even claim that it would happen without ID laws.

Check out what the Brennan Center says about voter ID. http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

Why won't CONs admit that these laws are only about suppressing the Dem vote?

[Ecstatic]

Models wouldn't do that would they?

Nah, they are all 100% legit and would never neglect their photo IDs.....

[Stavros]

No photo ID in the UK is required when voting; I also suspect that we have more voter fraud in this country than in the USA, not sure if the two are related. But we have fewer restrictions on who can vote, and the debate right now is whether or not prisoners should be allowed to vote, as currently they are not.

Also not sure how this applies to transexuals who have been living for years as, say, Jane when their name on their polling card is, say, John. Might raise some eyebrows in the polling station...

[SFTB]

Biggest bullshit argument/distraction in years.

Cut through the crap and let's all be honest. If there was a place giving away money, or food, or a free apartment, and all these "disenfranchised" huddled masses had to do to get it was show an ID, they would pull one out so fast it would make your head spin! Well, there is, food stamps, welfare and Section 8 housing. I don't see Prospero or anyone else picketing and griping that the masses are oppressed by having to show ID before partaking of these programs.

I just don't see tens of thousands living off the grid, no ID, nothing on them at all. I'm one of those peeps that just assumed you had to show an ID to vote at your designated polling station. You need an ID to cash a paycheck, buy beer, drive, all manner of other things, why wouldn't you need one to validate yourself to vote?

[Faldur]

In 23 of the "58" states they have stop and identify laws. If you wander the streets without id you can be detained until your identity can be verified. The constitution's first basic requirement to vote is to be a US Citizen. How can enforcing that requirement be anything other than prudent? Unless it is your intent to encourage people who do not qualify to vote the opportunity.

[Stavros]

Faldur, I think that it is considered a problem if the person being stopped on the streets is judged by their appearance -let is say, they have a 'latino' look about them: jeans, a hat, a moustache. Do people who look like me and you get stopped on a regular basis? We don't have photo id in the UK, we don't need to carry any ID, and the people who get stopped the most 'just happen' to be aged between 16-30 and are black in appearance. Is the UK open to fraud and illegal immigration? Of course it is! And every now and then a sweep of Chinatown in London will unearth say 50 illegal immigrants, if that. I don't know that photo ID which has come and gone as a policy option, makes any difference, we have famously over-worked and under-staffed border controls, so even though we are an island, it doesn't stop people trying to get in. But the thread is about voting, and as I said, I think we have more fraudulent voting in the UK than you do in the US.

[trish]

usually, i just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in florida, georgia, idaho, indiana, kansas, lousiana, michigan, pennsylvania, south dakota or tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo id, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have id as well.

this is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (let's face it, we already know how georgia, kansas and tennessee will be voting)

also, if you live in florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

pass it along.

(yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)


what voter fraud? Voter fraud is one thing and one thing only - one person trying to vote as someone else. That's the only type of fraud that these new voter id laws can curb. Guess what? It just doesn't happen. When pennsylvania's new voter id law went to court, the state admitted they had no evidence of voter fraud (they called it 'in-person' voter fraud) occurring in pa or anywhere else. They didn't even claim that it would happen without id laws.

Check out what the brennan center says about voter id. http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

why won't cons admit that these laws are only about suppressing the dem vote?
~bump~

[loren]

Biggest bullshit argument/distraction in years.

Cut through the crap and let's all be honest. If there was a place giving away money, or food, or a free apartment, and all these "disenfranchised" huddled masses had to do to get it was show an ID, they would pull one out so fast it would make your head spin! Well, there is, food stamps, welfare and Section 8 housing. I don't see Prospero or anyone else picketing and griping that the masses are oppressed by having to show ID before partaking of these programs.

You need an ID to cash a paycheck, buy beer, drive, all manner of other things, why wouldn't you need one to validate yourself to vote?
That is 100% correct. Federal assistance programs require photo IDs. The first thing a cop asks for when he/she pulls you over is your photo ID, and yet no outcry to protect the disenfranchised drivers. In many stores you have to show ID to purchase some video games. Once I was "carded" for buying some anti-virus software for crying out loud.

In 23 of the "58" states they have stop and identify laws. If you wander the streets without id you can be detained until your identity can be verified. The constitution's first basic requirement to vote is to be a US Citizen. How can enforcing that requirement be anything other than prudent? Unless it is your intent to encourage people who do not qualify to vote the opportunity.
Actually if a cop simply walks up to you and asks for your ID, your first response should be to ask him/her why. They need a real reason to ask for your ID. Many people believe that cops are the law and therefore obey any emand without question, surrendering their rights. A cop demanding to see the ID of any citizen, whom has not commited any crime, is a blatant violation of the Forth Ammendment (although Prospero would argue that we don't have that right). If the cops tell you that you have to comply, ask them to cite the statute and ordinance.

[Jericho]

In 23 of the "58" states they have stop and identify laws. If you wander the streets without id you can be detained until your identity can be verified. The constitution's first basic requirement to vote is to be a US Citizen. How can enforcing that requirement be anything other than prudent? Unless it is your intent to encourage people who do not qualify to vote the opportunity.

Sounds like the old sus laws!
Land of the free, eh? :ignore:

[Jericho]

Best thing I've ever read about ID Cards (photo or otherwise):
http://www.seangabb.co.uk/pamphlet/idcards.htm

[trish]

The first thing a cop asks for when he/she pulls you over is your photo ID, and yet no outcry to protect the disenfranchised drivers. In many stores you have to show ID to purchase some video games. Once I was "carded" for buying some anti-virus software for crying out loud.Not every voter has a license to drive ( especially urban dwellers and the elderly). Moreover, driving is not a right nor a procedure for selecting York representative in government. Since 2000 there have been only 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud. Republican Pennsylvania representative Mike Turzai accidentally announced the very purpose of that State's voter ID law was to secure the state for Romney. He should know, he was a framer of the law. Some say voter ID laws are a solution to a non-existent problem; Turzai says they exist to solve the problem that too many democrats vote.

(thanks for the link Jericho)

[onmyknees]

Not every voter has a license to drive ( especially urban dwellers and the elderly). Moreover, driving is not a right nor a procedure for selecting York representative in government. Since 2000 there have been only 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud. Republican Pennsylvania representative Mike Turzai accidentally announced the very purpose of that State's voter ID law was to secure the state for Romney. He should know, he was a framer of the law. Some say voter ID laws are a solution to a non-existent problem; Turzai says they exist to solve the problem that too many democrats vote.

(thanks for the link Jericho)


LMAO...remember when Brietbart's guys went to DC and asked to vote using Eric Holder's name...and were not challanged for any verification or ID ?

Voter fraud....what voter fraud? Have a look at what a local TV station in Florida discovered...Or maybe they fabricated the evidence? You have to actually look for a problem before you can find it. I have lots more examples....but what would be the point really...? You're gonna believe what you wanna believe.


Illegal Aliens Caught Voting and Stealing Elections In Florida In Vast Numbers - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0&feature=player_embedded)#!

[trish]

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[trish]

maybe they fabricated the evidence?The follow study examined over 2000 reported cases of in person voter fraud and only found 10 cases since the year 2000.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10981-new-nationwide-study-of-election-fraud-since-2000-finds-just-10-cases-of-in-person-voter-fraud

I suggest your local news station now examine their alleged 94 cases more thoroughly. Lots of things can look like attempts at voter fraud, especially when the investigator is biased and the alleged perpetrators are minorities (I was once prevented temporarily from embarking on a ship once because someone with my same name was already aboard. I had to satisfy them I wasn't using the name of that person and that I bought my own ticket).

[Cuchulain]

LMAO...remember when Brietbart's guys went to DC and asked to vote using Eric Holder's name...and were not challanged for any verification or ID ?

Voter fraud....what voter fraud? Have a look at what a local TV station in Florida discovered...Or maybe they fabricated the evidence? You have to actually look for a problem before you can find it. I have lots more examples....but what would be the point really...? You're gonna believe what you wanna believe.


Illegal Aliens Caught Voting and Stealing Elections In Florida In Vast Numbers - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0&feature=player_embedded)#!

Once again, the old kneeler proves himself to be a liar, or just too stupid to understand voter ID laws. The Breitbart clown ran out of the polling place before he could be asked to sign his name in order to match his signature with the Eric Holder sig on file. That's why he's not in jail for voter fraud.

Any illegal who is registered to vote needed some kind of ID TO REGISTER IN THE FIRST PLACE, usually a driver's license or Social Security number. If an illegal has one of those, he can get photo ID or already has it, in the case of a driver's license. Making him show his ID at the polling place is not the way to stop him from voting. The problem there is with the voter registration process. OF COURSE someone should have to prove they are a citizen in order to register to vote or get an SS card or a license to drive. These new ID laws do not address that issue. Instead they disenfranchise the elderly, minorities, students and handicapped folks, who tend to vote Dem.

[Prospero]

Interesting to see the message posted on the top left hand side of this little video. And it has been distributed by Alipac

http://www.alipac.us/content.php?

As Trish says - it is ON THE RECORD that there are only 10 established and confirmed cases of voter fraud since 2000.

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)

Just a reminder: If you haven't obtained your voter ID, today might be a convenient day for you to it.

[loren]

Not every voter has a license to drive ( especially urban dwellers and the elderly). Moreover, driving is not a right nor a procedure for selecting York representative in government. Since 2000 there have been only 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud.
As I've said in another post, almost all adults in America have some form of government photo ID or an acceptable equivalent. You have to show ID and/or proof of residency in nearly all other facets of life ranging from opening a bank account to buying alcohol to purchasing a car.That being said, why not for voting voting? I can't speak for every State, in a neighboring State (Kansas) they've recently put into effect voter ID requirements and that State is offering to pay the cost (and even provide transportation to the license bureau) for anyone who does not have a photo ID to get one.

Your 10 cases of voter fraud - does that include the girl from Lees Summit (MO) who died in 2007 and still voted in 2008? Does that include the fictitious people that were created by Acorn workers in Jackson County, MO - most of whom voted in 2008 and 2010? Does that include the Mexicans who voted in California? Does that include the early voting tampering that oddured in Nevada? In 2006, I personally witnessed a guy from Kansas City who, by his own admission, voted at several locations in Kansas City earlier that day and he stopped by an Independence polling location (on his way home) and tried to vote there too.

[buttslinger]

Why don't the Republicans just throw away the votes like they did in Florida in 2000? Scalia will back them up.

[trish]

almost all adults in America have some form of government photo ID...Almost all citizens have photo ID's, but MANY do not. It is estimated that 11% of would be voters do not have photo ID's.

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20120905_Inquirer_Editorial__Next_law_to_go_is_Pa_ _s_voter_ID.html

THERE HAVE BEEN ONLY TEN, COUNT THEM, TEN CASES OF DOCUMENTED IN PERSON VOTER FREUD FOR THE LAST DECADE. TO CLAIM OTHERWISE IN ORDER TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE IS THE REAL FRAUD. OPEN YOUR EYES. DON'T LET THEM SUPPRESS YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE. GET OUT THERE. GET YOUR IDs and VOTE.

[SFTB]

Almost all citizens have photo ID's, but MANY do not. It is estimated that 11% of would be voters do not have photo ID's.



Then go get one. Not that I believe your figures and your constant quotes but just go get one. If you can get out of the house to vote, you can get to the DMV to get a photo ID. This is such bullshit it reeks. This isnt a popquiz, it's an election scheduled 4 years ago. Stop all the bullshit whining and get IDs. If the "disenfranchised" aren't mobile, go get them and shuttle them to the DMV and back. You can bus people across country for any number of causes, but you can't drive your neighbor to the DMV?

Because, bottom line that your bullshit won't address is ID laws are FAIR. As in everyone that walks up has to show an ID, regardless of race.

[trish]

Then go get one.Yes, thanks for the reminder. EVERYONE PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE WILL NOT BE SUPPRESSED BY UNFAIR VOTER LAWS.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[loren]

THERE HAVE BEEN ONLY TEN, COUNT THEM, TEN CASES OF DOCUMENTED IN PERSON VOTER FREUD FOR THE LAST DECADE.
Did you do the research yourself or do you just automaticly expect me to swallow what ONE blog article has to say?


Since you cannot address the specific examples (that come directly from personal experience or from close friends and family) that I brought up; and you choose to doggedly cling to your liberal ideology, then I have nothing more to say to you on this issue.

[loren]

The same dems who don't think people should have to show photo ID to be able to vote are requiring people to show photo ID to be able to attend their party.

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/09/14709-dnc-to-require-id-in-order-to-attend-festivities/

What about all those "disenfranchised" obama supporters? Can you say hypocrisy?

[trish]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/election-day-impersonation-an-impetus-for-voter-id-laws-a-rarity-data-show/2012/08/11/7002911e-df20-11e1-a19c-fcfa365396c8_story.html (http://truth-out.org/news/item/10981-new-nationwide-study-of-election-fraud-since-2000-finds-just-10-cases-of-in-person-voter-fraud)

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20120817voter-fraud-rare-united-states.html

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10981-new-nationwide-study-of-election-fraud-since-2000-finds-just-10-cases-of-in-person-voter-fraud

Yes, going to a party is much more important than casting your ballot. :D

[buttslinger]

In the United States of America, morons can vote but NOBODY comes between another American and the voting booth!!!

[Cuchulain]

As I've said in another post, almost all adults in America have some form of government photo ID or an acceptable equivalent. You have to show ID and/or proof of residency in nearly all other facets of life ranging from opening a bank account to buying alcohol to purchasing a car.That being said, why not for voting voting? I can't speak for every State, in a neighboring State (Kansas) they've recently put into effect voter ID requirements and that State is offering to pay the cost (and even provide transportation to the license bureau) for anyone who does not have a photo ID to get one.

Your 10 cases of voter fraud - does that include the girl from Lees Summit (MO) who died in 2007 and still voted in 2008? Does that include the fictitious people that were created by Acorn workers in Jackson County, MO - most of whom voted in 2008 and 2010? Does that include the Mexicans who voted in California? Does that include the early voting tampering that oddured in Nevada? In 2006, I personally witnessed a guy from Kansas City who, by his own admission, voted at several locations in Kansas City earlier that day and he stopped by an Independence polling location (on his way home) and tried to vote there too.

I call bullshit. The whole CON argument of 'you need ID to blah blah blah doesn't hold up. As trish has pointed out many times in this thread, reliable studies - http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/citizens_without_proof_stands_strong/ -show that as many as 11% of US citizens of voting age do not have photo ID. Those are the facts, so a lot of Americans are getting by without photo ID.

It's nice that Kansas and some other states are willing to help folks get ID, but are they willing to provide transport and costs to get the ID needed to get photo ID? Replacing birth certs and SS cards are where a lot of the hassle and expense comes in. Is Kansas one of those states where the local DMV is only open once in a blue moon?
'
'It is not so simple to obtain a government-issued ID when the nearest DMV is 30 miles away and is only open every fifth Wednesday in a month (the DMV in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month; there are only four months in 2012 that have five Wednesdays), you have no access to a vehicle and your county is so poverty stricken it has no public transportation. On top of that, you would need to request time off from work to make it to the DMV (somehow), which would cost you an entire day’s worth of pay (if your boss allows you to take the day off) and you may have to spare an additional $8-$20 to get your ID. On top of that, you need to provide paperwork in order to get your photo ID, which may involve an even more complicated process. If that does not seem impossible, it is at least a very difficult process to go through in order to cast your vote. It should not be so burdensome to have your voice heard in the democratic “land of the free.” The process is most difficult for the suffering people in this country who need their voices heard the most.
The Brennan Center for Justice found that in two areas along the U.S.-Mexico border making up 32 counties in Texas, there are approximately 134,000 voting-age citizens. About 61 percent of them are Hispanic, which is almost twice the relative concentration of Hispanics in the rest of the state, and the poverty rate is 22.4 percent. 9 of the 11 offices in these 32 counties are open part-time (only once or twice per week). Some voters, like those in Cotulla, a small rural town in south Texas, live an hour’s drive from the nearest part-time ID-issuing office, and that location is often open only one day per week. The study also found that the Southeastern quadrant of Dallas County has no ID-issuing offices where there are 244,100 eligible voters: nearly 30 percent live in poverty, and 52 percent are black. By contrast, there are eight full-time offices in the rest of the county.'
http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-left-724/


Reliable links to the allegations in your second paragraph would be helpful. I'd really, really like to know how 'fictitious people created by ACORN' managed to get registered, let alone vote. Was the local election bureau asleep at the wheel? As for your buddy in Kansas City, did he somehow register in multiple places under assumed names or did he use his own identity in each place? I'd love to see how he managed that trick.

[BluegrassCat]

The reason there is no voter fraud is because there's no money in it. People don't bother to commit crimes when there's nothing to gain.
But some people are spending millions of dollars to try to stop you from voting. Don't let their anti-democratic dirty tricks stop you. I just got my ID so I could vote and I hope everyone else does the same.

[onmyknees]

I call bullshit. The whole CON argument of 'you need ID to blah blah blah doesn't hold up. As trish has pointed out many times in this thread, reliable studies - http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/citizens_without_proof_stands_strong/ -show that as many as 11% of US citizens of voting age do not have photo ID. Those are the facts, so a lot of Americans are getting by without photo ID.

It's nice that Kansas and some other states are willing to help folks get ID, but are they willing to provide transport and costs to get the ID needed to get photo ID? Replacing birth certs and SS cards are where a lot of the hassle and expense comes in. Is Kansas one of those states where the local DMV is only open once in a blue moon?
'
'It is not so simple to obtain a government-issued ID when the nearest DMV is 30 miles away and is only open every fifth Wednesday in a month (the DMV in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month; there are only four months in 2012 that have five Wednesdays), you have no access to a vehicle and your county is so poverty stricken it has no public transportation. On top of that, you would need to request time off from work to make it to the DMV (somehow), which would cost you an entire day’s worth of pay (if your boss allows you to take the day off) and you may have to spare an additional $8-$20 to get your ID. On top of that, you need to provide paperwork in order to get your photo ID, which may involve an even more complicated process. If that does not seem impossible, it is at least a very difficult process to go through in order to cast your vote. It should not be so burdensome to have your voice heard in the democratic “land of the free.” The process is most difficult for the suffering people in this country who need their voices heard the most.
The Brennan Center for Justice found that in two areas along the U.S.-Mexico border making up 32 counties in Texas, there are approximately 134,000 voting-age citizens. About 61 percent of them are Hispanic, which is almost twice the relative concentration of Hispanics in the rest of the state, and the poverty rate is 22.4 percent. 9 of the 11 offices in these 32 counties are open part-time (only once or twice per week). Some voters, like those in Cotulla, a small rural town in south Texas, live an hour’s drive from the nearest part-time ID-issuing office, and that location is often open only one day per week. The study also found that the Southeastern quadrant of Dallas County has no ID-issuing offices where there are 244,100 eligible voters: nearly 30 percent live in poverty, and 52 percent are black. By contrast, there are eight full-time offices in the rest of the county.'
http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-left-724/


Reliable links to the allegations in your second paragraph would be helpful. I'd really, really like to know how 'fictitious people created by ACORN' managed to get registered, let alone vote. Was the local election bureau asleep at the wheel? As for your buddy in Kansas City, did he somehow register in multiple places under assumed names or did he use his own identity in each place? I'd love to see how he managed that trick.

I call this bullshit. New Hampshire just passed their voter ID law, and it was blessed by the Justice Department. They will provide you with a photo ID even if you don't have any documentation ( and who the fuck doesn't have a SS Card, a birth certificate, a drivers license, a tax return...anything) but you must sign an affidavit stating you are who you say you are under penalty of perjury. If you're not willing to make that effort to vote, then you shouldn't be allowed....period. You act as if people had gone their entire lives living in a cave with no interaction with any governmental agency. Did they just step out of a time machine? They registered to vote back in the 1800's..I'm sure we can handle that now. There's a post office in nearly every town in the country. You can't get a pusedofed without an ID dude !
Voter Fraud...what Voter Fraud? Here's 30,000 reasons why I say your take on this is bullshit...

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/just-in-time-for-the-dnc-30000-dead-north-carolinians-registered-to-vote/

[buttslinger]

I personally think that jailbirds should never be allowed to vote ever again. If those pricks can't observe the laws of this great nation, they don't deserve the ballot thing. Voting is not a right, it's a privelege, right, Knees? LMAO!!!

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)
I would like to thank everyone for keeping this thread on the first page. Keep up the good work...and in spite of the hassle and the utter unfairness of it all, don't forget to get your voter ID asap.

[Cuchulain]

I call this bullshit. New Hampshire just passed their voter ID law, and it was blessed by the Justice Department. They will provide you with a photo ID even if you don't have any documentation ( and who the fuck doesn't have a SS Card, a birth certificate, a drivers license, a tax return...anything) but you must sign an affidavit stating you are who you say you are under penalty of perjury. If you're not willing to make that effort to vote, then you shouldn't be allowed....period. You act as if people had gone their entire lives living in a cave with no interaction with any governmental agency. Did they just step out of a time machine? They registered to vote back in the 1800's..I'm sure we can handle that now. There's a post office in nearly every town in the country. You can't get a pusedofed without an ID dude !
Voter Fraud...what Voter Fraud? Here's 30,000 reasons why I say your take on this is bullshit...

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/just-in-time-for-the-dnc-30000-dead-north-carolinians-registered-to-vote/

Well whoop-de-do. You ignore every point I made in my posts and toss up New Hampshire. Guess what? The NH law is much more reasonable than most. It does allow folks to vote without photo ID this year, giving voters an extra year to obtain photo ID. Those who vote that way will get a letter in the mail simply asking them to confirm that they voted. Other states only give provisional voters a few days to show up at the election bureau with photo ID. And wtf does the Post Office have to do with it?

As for your 30k dead people in North Carolina, so what?
Show me concrete evidence of dead folks voting and you might have a point. The NC study didn't do that. The Bush DOJ couldn't do it. The great state of PA couldn't find any evidence of dead people voting or any other voter fraud. Don't you think they tried? It takes time to clear the deceased from the rolls anywhere in the country. Election bureaus need solid proof that someone is gone before booting them from the rolls. There's nothing sinister about that. If some poor schmuck tries to vote under a dead person's name, they must match the signature on file. If a poll worker is unsure that the sigs match, they must ask for ID.

As trish and others have shown, there is virtually no evidence of voter fraud in America. To prevent a very few possible cases, you would risk disenfranchising up to 11% of the population? How very Republican of you.

[Cecil Rhodes]

You're right...put it on the Political Boards...as it's a political post and not a public service announcement thanks to the commentary....and while we're over there please show some proof (names, addresses, etc) of Floridians who are legit citizens, still breathing, and not felons that were purged for as you put it..."political reasons".

Also just how will Georgia, Kansas & Tennessee be voting ? onmyknees is not the only one that saw something other than a psa to this thread .

[SFTB]

LIL Wayne is a blatant racist too! apparently you have to show a valid govt issued photo ID to win his contest. I'm sure right after the election the "disenfranchised" will be protesting him next.

http://amp.cbslocal.com/2009/07/20/lil-wayne-official-contest-rules/

[riccadevia]

Don't be trifling mushheads people...it is the definition of common sense to have people proving who they are before they vote. If many don't have I.D.'s then guess what?! Go get one!! I bet everyone of these 'so-called' disenfranchised citizens have cable, a cell phone, internet, etc. of some combination. Get real, you need a fucking I.D. to cash your welfare check, your social security check, your food stamps...if these are the lowest among us in regards to economic prosperity then I think it's already been covered. QUIT CRYING WOLF OVER NOTHING!!! Try thinking for yourself instead of being locked into some ideology that doesn't allow you to think freely or question hypocrisy.

[buttslinger]

The reason there is no voter fraud is because there's no money in it. People don't bother to commit crimes when there's nothing to gain. -BluegassCat
Do you know why we vote on Tuesday? Because Wednesday is Market Day, and we need time between Church on Sunday to drive our buggies to and from the polls. They should change voting day to the first Saturday and Sunday in November. Lots more WORKING PEOPLE would vote.

[riccadevia]

Umm, 'buttslinger'...your quote from BluegassCat, you would have to completely gloss over the 'gain' of winning an election by fraud, other than that minute 'gain', your quote holds water. Not to mention (don'tcha love a sentence that begins with this and then they go right to mentioning it) the power, wealth, and influence that comes along with the fraudulent, treasonous act.

[buttslinger]

Umm, 'buttslinger'...your quote from BluegassCat, you would have to completely gloss over the 'gain' of winning an election by fraud, other than that minute 'gain', your quote holds water. Not to mention (don'tcha love a sentence that begins with this and then they go right to mentioning it) the power, wealth, and influence that comes along with the fraudulent, treasonous act.

Don't bullshit a bullshitter "Hepatitus-Face", there's not a person alive who doesn't know this is all another scam cooked up by Republican Governors to supress Democratic votes.

[riccadevia]

Don't bullshit a bullshitter "Hepatitus-Face", there's not a person alive who doesn't know this is all another scam cooked up by Republican Governors to supress Democratic votes.


Wow, resort to name-calling now, well I guess when someone say's something without explaining it (and repeats it over and over) you should whole-heartedly agree huh? Your ideology blinds you to even recognizing common sense, very sad. Your eyes will be opened soon enough, everyone's sadly. I'm done with this conversation though, so go ahead and pick your final shots at me personally and avoid the substance of the conversation yet again. Kisses!

[buttslinger]

Wow, resort to name-calling now, well I guess when someone say's something without explaining it (and repeats it over and over) you should whole-heartedly agree huh? Your ideology blinds you to even recognizing common sense, very sad. Your eyes will be opened soon enough, everyone's sadly. I'm done with this conversation though, so go ahead and pick your final shots at me personally and avoid the substance of the conversation yet again. Kisses!

OK, nice talking to you mustard-head, kisses.

[Cuchulain]

Don't be trifling mushheads people...it is the definition of common sense to have people proving who they are before they vote. If many don't have I.D.'s then guess what?! Go get one!! I bet everyone of these 'so-called' disenfranchised citizens have cable, a cell phone, internet, etc. of some combination. Get real, you need a fucking I.D. to cash your welfare check, your social security check, your food stamps...if these are the lowest among us in regards to economic prosperity then I think it's already been covered. QUIT CRYING WOLF OVER NOTHING!!! Try thinking for yourself instead of being locked into some ideology that doesn't allow you to think freely or question hypocrisy.

There are a few posters in this thread who keep making short, angry comments that merely repeat repub talking points and never refute the evidence and reasoned arguments made by those of us who know this whole voter ID law horseshit is just meant to lower the number of legitimate Dem votes. Seems some folks really do use their lizard brain when discussing anything political.

[SFTB]

There are a few posters in this thread who keep making short, angry comments that merely repeat repub talking points and never refute the evidence and reasoned arguments made by those of us who know this whole voter ID law horseshit is just meant to lower the number of legitimate Dem votes. Seems some folks really do use their lizard brain when discussing anything political.

US Attorney General Eric Holder's Ballot to Vote Offered to Total Stranger - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw)

[Cuchulain]

SFTB, what exactly do you think that O'Keefe vid shows? As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Eric Holder wannabe ran out of the polling place without trying to sign for the ballot, which is why he isn't in jail today. Later, he seems to be claiming he can't sign because there's something wrong with his hand. Notice there's a shot of him with his right hand all wrapped up. Folks who can't sign for some reason are offered a special or provisional ballot. These ballots are subject to further scrutiny and are not counted until the election board is certain they are legit. There is no way that goof could have successfully voted under someone else's name. All that vid proves is that O'Keefe is an unscrupulous little con artist.

[SFTB]

SFTB, what exactly do you think that O'Keefe vid shows? As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Eric Holder wannabe ran out of the polling place without trying to sign for the ballot, which is why he isn't in jail today. Later, he seems to be claiming he can't sign because there's something wrong with his hand. Notice there's a shot of him with his right hand all wrapped up. Folks who can't sign for some reason are offered a special or provisional ballot. These ballots are subject to further scrutiny and are not counted until the election board is certain they are legit. There is no way that goof could have successfully voted under someone else's name. All that vid proves is that O'Keefe is an unscrupulous little con artist.

ACORN Voter Fraud Witness - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9xjNtHo35g)

[Cuchulain]

SFTB, now you're just trolling incoherently. Do you know the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud? This is a thread about voter fraud and voter ID laws, which have nothing to do with registration. I'm sure you can find more pointless vids though. Have fun.

[SFTB]

SFTB, now you're just trolling incoherently. Do you know the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud? This is a thread about voter fraud and voter ID laws, which have nothing to do with registration. I'm sure you can find more pointless vids though. Have fun.

Dead people voting satisfy your criteria?

Caught on Tape: Dead People and Clones Offered Ballots in Vermont Primary - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLSjL--qvsw)

[trish]

Doesn't happen. But thank you for keeping this reminder on the front page.



This is what's happening -> Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[SFTB]

Doesn't happen. But thank you for keeping this reminder on the front page.
[/url]

2.23.09: Obama Pledges to Cut the Deficit in Half By the End of His First Term in Office - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGt4LYMXQpo)

[Cuchulain]

Dead people voting satisfy your criteria?

Caught on Tape: Dead People and Clones Offered Ballots in Vermont Primary - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLSjL--qvsw)

Before I waste 10 minutes watching that, can you tell me at what points one of O'Keefe's dirty tricksters actually signs for and get's a ballot under a fake name? Go ahead and look. Be thorough, cause you ain't gonna find it in that or any other vid.

[buttslinger]

Sorry for calling the new guy a lemon-head.
Is there one American who thinks Bush didn't fuck up everything he touched?
The Republicans are trying to blame the Sun for making them look bad.
The truth hurts if you're a Republican. Instead of voter fraud Romney should release his tax returns and show us some votee fraud.

[SFTB]

Sorry for calling the new guy a lemon-head.
Is there one American who thinks Bush didn't fuck up everything he touched?
The Republicans are trying to blame the Sun for making them look bad.
The truth hurts if you're a Republican. Instead of voter fraud Romney should release his tax returns and show us some votee fraud.

If you use Obama's own measuring stick on himself, we see the true fuckup. His words, how he measures Bush. So does that make Obama a quadruple fuckup since he did double the damage in half the time?

Senator Obama calls Bush "unpatriotic" for adding trillions to debt www.RightFace.us - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U)

[buttslinger]

If you use Obama's own measuring stick on himself, we see the true fuckup. His words, how he measures Bush. So does that make Obama a quadruple fuckup since he did double the damage in half the time?

Are you fuckin tellin me that Bush was a better President than Obama?

[SFTB]

Are you fuckin tellin me that Bush was a better President than Obama?

What part of the wording of my post, and Obama's spoken word did you not comprehend?

[onmyknees]

Not sure if this was covered, but I can't read back over all the posts on here...I simply don't have the stomach for that much wild speculation and opinion, so let's deal in FACTS...incontrovertible facts. In case you're reading this thread and trying to wade through some of the bullshit, opinion and scare tactics...I give you this....
Here's what Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens ( by most accounts a moderate on the court )said about voter fraud in 2008...
“Unfortunately, the United States has a long history of voter fraud that has been documented by historians and journalists.....confidence in the integrity of our electoral processes is essential to the functioning of our participatory democracy. Voter fraud drives honest citizens out of the democratic process and breeds distrust of our government. Voters who fear their legitimate votes will be outweighed by fraudulent ones will feel disenfranchised.”


Now opponents of vote ID laws would have you believe that Justice Stevens traded in his black robe for a white robe in an effort to hold blacks folks down, but they claim everything and everybody who holds a different view than them is racist, so that argument is pretty hollow.
Let's continue with the FACTS....
In the 2008 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was incredibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes...that's 725 votes. Attorneys went to work with recounts and challenges and after the first recount Coleman's lead was down to 206 votes. As months of court challenges and recounts were undertaken, an independent group began looking at the voting rolls. They compared criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons -- all ineligible to vote -- who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race. The group took the evidence to prosecutors across the State but found they had little appetite for pursuing for several reasons...1) The law is written so that a person must "knowingly" commit voter fraud...that's a stiff burden. 2) After months of court challenges there was little appetite for more litigation. Some prosecutors did investigate, and to date 177 people have been convicted ( not charged...convicted) and another 66 await trial. That's a total of 243 people in a race ultimately decided by 312 votes !!!! We're not talking about some backwater town clerk....we're talking about the US Senate. All elections are important, but this one gave the liberals a 60 vote, veto proof majority in the Senate.
It's not a stretch to suggest that Franken's victory was suspect, but that bullet has left the gun and there's no calling it back. That's not sour grapes, just re-read the facts. Without the 60 vote majority for the succeeding 2 years, everything changes. That's why the integrity of elections are important.
So there's the facts....dismiss all the bullshit and phoney claims of voter suppression and racism and concentrate on the facts.

[trish]

Incontrovertible Fact: There have only been 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud in the entirety of the U.S. over the last decade.

On the other hand, mail in ballots, voter machine tempering and other forms of "misplacing" bags of completed ballots might be something to investigate. Of course picture IDs would do little to prevent that kind of fraud.

[SFTB]

Incontrovertible Fact: There have only been 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud in the entirety of the U.S. over the last decade.

On the other hand, mail in ballots, voter machine tempering and other forms of "misplacing" bags of completed ballots might be something to investigate. Of course picture IDs would do little to prevent that kind of fraud.

say 10 all you want, 113 in Minnesota alone.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html

[trish]

Incontrovertible Fact: Photo voter ID laws were designed to suppress the vote of the elderly, the young, the poor and the ethnic minorities.

Proof and Confession-> Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[SFTB]

Incontrovertible Fact: Photo voter ID laws were designed to suppress the vote of the elderly, the young, the poor and the ethnic minorities.

Proof and Confession-> Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

What happened to incontrovertible fact "only 10 cases" See Trish you dont do facts, you do hysteria.

[trish]

Incontrovertible Fact: Photo voter ID laws were designed to suppress the vote of the elderly, the young, the poor and the ethnic minorities.

If the Minnesota Majority says it, it's not incontrovertible.


Proof and Confession-> Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[onmyknees]

Incontrovertible Fact: There have only been 10 documented cases of in person voter fraud in the entirety of the U.S. over the last decade.

On the other hand, mail in ballots, voter machine tempering and other forms of "misplacing" bags of completed ballots might be something to investigate. Of course picture IDs would do little to prevent that kind of fraud.



So you're saying Justice Stevens is wrong? Then you'd better get to work because your words alone are not convincing..... Grab the next flight to Minnesota, and start scouring the court records because I'm sticking by my facts.
Let's for the moment "assume" what you stated is correct. I thought I explained why the prosecution of such a crime is difficult. Add to the way the law is written ( implying intent, and the difficulty and cost associated proving that) additionally courts and prosecutors are overwhelmed with other crimes and criminals. Hell ...Jon Corzine wasn't indicted, but is there a sane person that doesn't think he stole millions? Is fraud any less serious if it's done through the mail than in person? There's a cure for protecting the absentee ballot process and states are working on that as well. Here's what people like you have created....get a drivers license with no valid proof of citizenship, then send in for an absentee ballot using your drivers license as "proof"of citizenship . See where this is going? Pretty soon you won't know who's legal and who's not. Oh wait....we're already there.
It's all academic anyway. 66% of Americans favor strengthening voter security laws, but that in and of itself won't move the needle. What will change all this is when a high profile lib loses an election by a few suspect votes...(in person or otherwise) Then look the fuck out! Your side appears to be the beneficiary of the fraud, so it's really NBD to you at this point.

[trish]

A high profile lib already lost an election by just one vote...I believe the count was 5 to 4. The Conservative court didn't want the people's votes to be counted. Yeah, you guys have a long distinguished history of voter suppression.

[Erika1487]

Looove how this thread is just running off the rails :p
Hey here is a random thought libs what about absentee ballots? All done by mail, with no ID needed.
Why can't these poor disenfranchised voters just mail their damn vote in. #logic #tryitsometime

[buttslinger]

What part ..of my post... did you not comprehend?

I didn't understand any of it!!!

[buttslinger]

Hey here is a random thought libs what about absentee ballots? All done by mail, with no ID needed.
Why can't these poor disenfranchised voters just mail their damn vote in.

Erika is my favorite Republican.

[trish]

OK, nice talking to you mustard-head, kisses.


Looove how this thread is just running off the rails :p
Hey here is a random thought libs what about absentee ballots? All done by mail, with no ID needed.
Why can't these poor disenfranchised voters just mail their damn vote in. #logic #tryitsometime

I don't know about libs, but I personally have reservations about any sort of mail in or on-line balloting. Both are much more open to fraud. To relate it to a previous poster's point there is no profit in in-person voter fraud...that's why there isn't any to speak of. However, one can easily buy mail-in and on-line votes and verify that the voter indeed voted as agreed. There is a real potential for profit in political power. On the other hand, the military votes mainly by mail, many elderly vote by mail and of course the handicapped and infirm vote largely by mail. But the new photo ID laws do nothing to address this issue, they are about suppressing the vote at the polls.

But it's a nice idea Ericka. Do those votes actually get counted or do they hold them in reserve to break ties?:)

[Erika1487]

Erika is my favorite Republican.
Thank you :D

[Erika1487]

I don't know about libs, but I personally have reservations about any sort of mail in or on-line balloting. Both are much more open to fraud. To relate it to a previous poster's point there is no profit in in-person voter fraud...that's why there isn't any to speak of. However, one can easily buy mail-in and on-line votes and verify that the voter indeed voted as agreed. There is a real potential for profit in political power. On the other hand, the military votes mainly by mail, many elderly vote by mail and of course the handicapped and infirm vote largely by mail. But the new photo ID laws do nothing to address this issue, they are about suppressing the vote at the polls.

But it's a nice idea Ericka. Do those votes actually get counted or do they hold them in reserve to break ties?:)
I see what you did there well played Trish :p In my experiance the last few years Ohio has streamlined the absentee voting process making the ballot easier to read and count! It was only just a few years ago that a large portion of Ohio absentee ballots where punch cards, which resulted in many votes getting tossed for 'hanging chads' 'I.e the 2004 recount.

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)
~bump~

[Cuchulain]

say 10 all you want, 113 in Minnesota alone.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html

Gave up on the O'Keefe vids, eh? You couldn't actually find anyone dumb enough to risk 5 years in the can and a $10k fine for vote fraud.

You and the kneeler continue to cite bullshit sources, while failing to rationally refute any of the info that's been presented in this thread. Both of you are now citing claims (that's claims, not facts) from the so-called 'Minnesota Majority', a far right (OMK doesn't even name his source and falsely calls them independent) group whose findings have been questioned by many, including Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman, who actually investigated most of the cases. You should read the entire article the next quote is from. It disproves the 'Minnesota Majority' conclusions a number of times-

“There is no basis in fact, whatsoever, in these inaccuracies propagated by the Minnesota Majority here, none,” Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Wednesday. “After the most closely scrutinized election in Minnesota history in 2008, there were zero cases of fraud. Even the Republicans lawyers acknowledged that there was no systematic effort to defraud the election, none.”
“In Hennepin County, 650,000 people voted,” he continued. “The Minnesota Majority presented us with 1,500 cases that they felt there were problems with voting. Our own election bureau gave us 100. At the end of the day, we charged 38 cases. And all but one of them are felons voting who were still under the penalty [of not legally applying to regain individual voting rights]. There was no fraud.” http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator


The whole Franken argument is about ex-felons voting - people who hadn't yet done the proper paperwork and should not have been able to register, yet somehow they did. Again, the problem was with registration, an issue not affected by new ID laws. Asking them for photo ID at the polling place would not have stopped them from voting. Remember photo ID? This is a thread about photo ID.

[Stavros]

Gave up on the O'Keefe vids, eh? You couldn't actually find anyone dumb enough to risk 5 years in the can and a $10k fine for vote fraud.

You and the kneeler continue to cite bullshit sources, while failing to rationally refute any of the info that's been presented in this thread. Both of you are now citing claims (that's claims, not facts) from the so-called 'Minnesota Majority', a far right (OMK doesn't even name his source and falsely calls them independent) group whose findings have been questioned by many, including Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman, who actually investigated most of the cases. You should read the entire article the next quote is from. It disproves the 'Minnesota Majority' conclusions a number of times-

“There is no basis in fact, whatsoever, in these inaccuracies propagated by the Minnesota Majority here, none,” Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Wednesday. “After the most closely scrutinized election in Minnesota history in 2008, there were zero cases of fraud. Even the Republicans lawyers acknowledged that there was no systematic effort to defraud the election, none.”
“In Hennepin County, 650,000 people voted,” he continued. “The Minnesota Majority presented us with 1,500 cases that they felt there were problems with voting. Our own election bureau gave us 100. At the end of the day, we charged 38 cases. And all but one of them are felons voting who were still under the penalty [of not legally applying to regain individual voting rights]. There was no fraud.” http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator


The whole Franken argument is about ex-felons voting - people who hadn't yet done the proper paperwork and should not have been able to register, yet somehow they did. Again, the problem was with registration, an issue not affected by new ID laws. Asking them for photo ID at the polling place would not have stopped them from voting. Remember photo ID? This is a thread about photo ID.

To this excellent refutation of Onmyknee's baseless accusation, I would add this account of the challenge the the Minnesota election which clearly identifies the problem Minnesota had with an increase in absentee ballots it was apparently not prepared to deal with in 2008; one assumes it has improved since then:
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/elj.2010.0090

There is also an exacting survey of elections since 2000 which confirms the points that Trish has been making about fraud in elections, vide:

Allegations that widespread voter fraud is threatening to the integrity of American elections and American democracy itself have intensified since the disputed 2000 presidential election. The claim that elections are being stolen by illegal immigrants and unscrupulous voter registration activists and vote buyers has been used to persuade the public that voter malfeasance is of greater concern than structural inequities in the ways votes are gathered and tallied, justifying ever tighter restrictions on access to the polls. Yet, that claim is a myth.

In The Myth of Voter Fraud, Lorraine C. Minnite presents the results of her meticulous search for evidence of voter fraud. She concludes that while voting irregularities produced by the fragmented and complex nature of the electoral process in the United States are common, incidents of deliberate voter fraud are actually quite rare. Based on painstaking research aggregating and sifting through data from a variety of sources, including public records requests to all fifty state governments and the U.S. Justice Department, Minnite contends that voter fraud is in reality a politically constructed myth intended to further complicate the voting process and reduce voter turnout. She refutes several high-profile charges of alleged voter fraud, such as the assertion that eight of the 9/11 hijackers were registered to vote, and makes the question of voter fraud more precise by distinguishing fraud from the manifold ways in which electoral democracy can be distorted. Effectively disentangling misunderstandings and deliberate distortions from reality, The Myth of Voter Fraud provides rigorous empirical evidence for those fighting to make the electoral process more efficient, more equitable, and more democratic.
The Myth of Voter Fraud: Amazon.co.uk: Lorraine C. Minnite: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51puhbfZgYL.@@AMEPARAM@@51puhbfZgYL (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Myth-Voter-Fraud-Lorraine-Minnite/dp/0801448484)

[martin48]

"Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons."

Is it still "hanging chads" in Florida? Or are you executing them with lethal injections these days?

[loren]

at what points O'Keefe actually signs for and gets a ballot under a fake name
The point is they could've. If you would've watched the vid, you would've noticed the election workers saying stuff like, "We trust that you are who you say you are. or Your name is in the book." not even bothering to try to make sure that the person was whom they were claiming to be. The point of the vids was to show how easy it would be for someone to vote under an assumed name. Also, if you would've watched the vid, you would've seen that in most cases they were not even asked to sign for the ballot.

[loren]

Just sayin'

[Prospero]

Loren - not simply a blog article but a piece of research by a law professor at Florida state university - and published in one of the UK's top political journals Prospect. A bit less biased I think than the squeals from some of the trailer park folk here and their favourite TV channel Fox News.

[trish]

Some States are accepting only photo IDs that have expiration dates. This criterion eliminates most military IDs, student IDs and food cards. Please be sure what your State's criteria are. Be prepared to vote.

[loren]

30,000 dead people were found on the North Carolina voting rolls. Since that State has no voter ID laws, it is impossible to say if any of these "disenfranchised" voted.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html

Meanwhile, a story about real voter disenfranchisment:
http://www.thestate.com/2012/06/27/2332178/tens-of-thousands-of-service-members.html#.UCHh3KCVOQQ

[buttslinger]

Make sure you get Obama's birth certificate when he votes.

[Cuchulain]

The point is they could've. If you would've watched the vid, you would've noticed the election workers saying stuff like, "We trust that you are who you say you are. or Your name is in the book." not even bothering to try to make sure that the person was whom they were claiming to be. The point of the vids was to show how easy it would be for someone to vote under an assumed name. Also, if you would've watched the vid, you would've seen that in most cases they were not even asked to sign for the ballot.

Wow. Do you really believe that? Did you watch those vids and actually come away with that opinion? Wow. Now I understand why late night infomercials make money.

The point of those carefully edited vids was to MAKE IT LOOK LIKE it was easy to vote under a different name. It doesn't matter whether poll workers 'trust' you, you WILL sign for that ballot or you won't get one anywhere in the US.

Ya know what? I invite anyone to watch those silly vids and form their own opinion. Wow.

[Prospero]

Some States are accepting only photo IDs that have expiration dates. This criterion eliminates most military IDs, student IDs and food cards. Please be sure what your State's criteria are. Be prepared to vote.
Bump

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)
~bump~

[onmyknees]

~bump~


You have a strangely inconsistent and arbitrarily selective world view..... You want tighter controls on everything from guns, to salt to soft drinks yet when states seek to eliminate even the possibility of fraudulent vote casting,even to the extent of helping anyone who needs an ID get one free of charge....you think that's an over reach.....too much government.

You went hysterical when the cops pepper sprayed some OWS protestors, yet when NYC cops sprayed mid town with bullets recently, you told us cops were trained professionals.

For weeks you attempted to tie political speech to the Arizona shooting, yet when Floyd Corkins walks into the lobby of an advocacy group with a bag of Chick-fil-A and a semi auto pistol and starts shooting, your outrage is not so much.

You've asked people if they're being racist , obviously realizing they'll strenuously deny it...then ask them why they're being so sensitive. Cute tactic.

You were the unofficial spokesperson for OWS, then when the anarchy, rapes and crime spree became apparent, you exited stage left...silently.

You were all over the stand your grounds laws in Florida as a potential reason for a shooting, yet when 18 are gunned down in one night in Chicago with no apparent motive.....nothing.

I think I understand :dancing:

[trish]

I thought this was a thread about issues and not your personal animosity toward contributors to these threads. But okay. You have a strangely inconsistent and arbitrarily selective world view...you want loose controls on everything from toxins in our water supply, greedy bankers, oil companies, lumber and mining corporations, weapons manufacturers and their customers. Yet when the people seek to continue to exercise the right to vote that they exercised for two centuries without incident (other than past attempts to suppress that right via poll taxes, tests and outright violence) suddenly, just months away from a presidential election, you want to tighten things up. :dancing::dancing::dancing: (See how that works)

Yes, cops ARE professionals. Let me see you deny it. Yet professionals accidentally kill innocent people. My point then (which is hardly relevant to this thread...but since you bring it up...) was that if professionals can make such consequential errors imagine what would have happen if ordinary wannabe gunslingers on the street carrying secret weapons opened up.

So let me thank you again for keeping this thread going.

GET YOUR VOTING ID IN ORDER and VOTE. Pass the word.

[trish]

Si usted vive en Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Luisiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Dakota del Sur y Tennessee y quiere votar este año, asegúrese de tener identificación vigente con fotografía válida, ya que ahora se requiere en estos estados. Asegúrese de que sus amigos y familiares tienen ID también.

Esto es especialmente importante si usted vive en uno de estos estados que podrían ir en cualquier dirección en las elecciones de este año. (Seamos realistas, ya sabemos cómo Georgia, Kansas y Tennessee a votar)

Además, si usted vive en Florida, asegúrese de que está siendo registrado para votar. Ellos han estado purgando personas de las listas por razones políticas.

Pasarlo bien.

[bobvela]

THERE HAVE BEEN ONLY TEN, COUNT THEM, TEN CASES OF DOCUMENTED IN PERSON VOTER FREUD FOR THE LAST DECADE.

Once again... you prove yourself to either be a liar... or a fraud... which would you prefer?

Remember Al Franken? Senator from Minnesota? Elected after a rather controversial election? ... by only 312 votes in fact... out of 2.4 million cast.

Did you know... at least 1099 votes were cast by felons (http://washingtonexaminer.com/york-when-1099-felons-vote-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163) who did not have the right to vote?

What do you call that? I'd call it VOTER FRAUD!

More so... do you think they voted 50/50 Franken(D)/Colman(R)? ... probably not... in fact... if they just voted 313/786... then Franken would have won... and that assumes a minimal vote for a Democrat (who tend to get the felon vote (http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004473.html)).

That's right... Al Franken... is almost certainly a Senator from the State of Minnesota because of VOTER FRAUD.

Care to withdraw your claims as to only 10 (known) cases in the last decade?


TO CLAIM OTHERWISE IN ORDER TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE IS THE REAL FRAUD.

What % do you think of people who speed are ever caught for their speeding at the time? 50%? 10%? 1%? It'd be awful silly to assume that the only people who ever speed are those who are caught... as discussed above... we've seen people in the last year be offered the ballot for people other than them... and only an ignorant person (ie you) would assume that these are one off cases... or are you one of those who when driving down the road and getting passed by speeders... assumes that only 10 people, nationwide in the past decade have ever been pulled over for speeding?

If you refuse to take steps to making such crimes more visible, then you do nothing but enable those who commit them.

[bobvela]

SFTB, what exactly do you think that O'Keefe vid shows? As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Eric Holder wannabe ran out of the polling place without trying to sign for the ballot, which is why he isn't in jail today.

To avoid being charged for actual voter fraud.


Later, he seems to be claiming he can't sign because there's something wrong with his hand.

That same hand issue is present in multiple 'attempts' to get ballots.


Notice there's a shot of him with his right hand all wrapped up. Folks who can't sign for some reason are offered a special or provisional ballot. These ballots are subject to further scrutiny and are not counted until the election board is certain they are legit.

Oh really? In most states (where you show up to vote) they do not check your signature against a known registry... instead, so long as you sign your name as best you can... you get to vote. Provisional ballots tend to be used for cases when the identity or eligibility of a person is in doubt... something that WAS NOT the case in the videos we've seen.


There is no way that goof could have successfully voted under someone else's name.

Really? I guess I don't recall any of the people HANDING A BALLOT TO HIM saying "We'll let you fill this out now... but it may get rejected later if your signature doesn't check out"... care to prove me wrong?


All that vid proves is that O'Keefe is an unscrupulous little con artist.

If we take what you said above as true... then you are right... thank god you are clearly talking out of your ass and know not of what you speak.

[trish]

Your point was already demolished. See post #91 and the also the post quoted therein.
But thanks for keeping this public service thread on the front page.

[bobvela]

The reason there is no voter fraud is because there's no money in it. People don't bother to commit crimes when there's nothing to gain.

*facepalm*

Really? So the recent claims in Mexico are... false? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexicos-presidential-election-tainted-by-claims-of-vote-buying/2012/07/04/gJQAHqTzNW_story.html)

OH WAIT! When looking for another link... I turned up a man who admitted to VOTER FRAUD (http://www.alipac.us/f12/mexican-admits-ca-voter-fraud-263657/)... does this mean Trish's count is up to at least 11? I wonder how many others she (or you) have/has ignored? ... and those are just ones we know about.

Though still... drug dealers in Kentucky might disagree (http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/drug-dealers-kentucky-vote/2012/07/25/id/446544) with what there is to be had through voter fraud... and that is just ONE example.


But some people are spending millions of dollars to try to stop you from voting. Don't let their anti-democratic dirty tricks stop you. I just got my ID so I could vote and I hope everyone else does the same.

But you still showed them! Rather than show up to the polls and say "I don't need to stinking ID!" you said "Eeek! I better get an ID!"

Good for you! and doing just what those evil people spending millions of dollars to try to stop you from voting wanted you to do... Having and producing ID when you vote!

[bobvela]

Your point was already demolished. See post #91 and the also the post quoted therein.
But thanks for keeping this public service thread on the front page.

On the contrary... as you often do you pointed to something else in the hopes it would refute something I said... while not comprehending anything that was said on the subject.

Alas this is a well known tactic of yours.

I'd love it if you could/would specifically refute something I say... but alas... we both know you are quite incapable of such rational thought.

If you will excuse me though, the hour is extraordinarily late and I must be off to bed.

Toodles!

[Cuchulain]

Once again... you prove yourself to either be a liar... or a fraud... which would you prefer?

Remember Al Franken? Senator from Minnesota? Elected after a rather controversial election? ... by only 312 votes in fact... out of 2.4 million cast.

Did you know... at least 1099 votes were cast by felons (http://washingtonexaminer.com/york-when-1099-felons-vote-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163) who did not have the right to vote?

What do you call that? I'd call it VOTER FRAUD!

More so... do you think they voted 50/50 Franken(D)/Colman(R)? ... probably not... in fact... if they just voted 313/786... then Franken would have won... and that assumes a minimal vote for a Democrat (who tend to get the felon vote (http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004473.html)).

That's right... Al Franken... is almost certainly a Senator from the State of Minnesota because of VOTER FRAUD.

Sorry, lad. As trish pointed out, we covered the Minnesota Majority bullshit already. They pulled their 'facts' out of their ass, greatly inflating the numbers, according to the Minnesota prosecutor who investigated most of the cases. He determined that almost all the former felons who registered incorrectly simply didn't understand the procedure for getting their voting rights back.

Any ex-felons (folks who didn't first fill out the proper paperwork to restore their ability to vote) who actually voted did so because they were able to register. The registration process failed. They had to have ID to register. For most people, that would be a driver's license, so asking for photo ID at the polls wouldn't have made any difference.

You CONs keep trying to drag this thread away from the new photo ID laws because you can't defend them. In the cold light of day, these laws stop far, far more legitimate voters than fraud because NOBODY IS STUPID ENOUGH TO RISK 5 YRS AND A 10K FINE just to cast one lousy fake vote.

[Cuchulain]

To avoid being charged for actual voter fraud.



That same hand issue is present in multiple 'attempts' to get ballots.



Oh really? In most states (where you show up to vote) they do not check your signature against a known registry... instead, so long as you sign your name as best you can... you get to vote. Provisional ballots tend to be used for cases when the identity or eligibility of a person is in doubt... something that WAS NOT the case in the videos we've seen.



Really? I guess I don't recall any of the people HANDING A BALLOT TO HIM saying "We'll let you fill this out now... but it may get rejected later if your signature doesn't check out"... care to prove me wrong?



If we take what you said above as true... then you are right... thank god you are clearly talking out of your ass and know not of what you speak.

Lol, what's the point? Everything you said here is bullshit.

[Cuchulain]

*facepalm*

Really? So the recent claims in Mexico are... false? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexicos-presidential-election-tainted-by-claims-of-vote-buying/2012/07/04/gJQAHqTzNW_story.html)

OH WAIT! When looking for another link... I turned up a man who admitted to VOTER FRAUD (http://www.alipac.us/f12/mexican-admits-ca-voter-fraud-263657/)... does this mean Trish's count is up to at least 11? I wonder how many others she (or you) have/has ignored? ... and those are just ones we know about.

Though still... drug dealers in Kentucky might disagree (http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/drug-dealers-kentucky-vote/2012/07/25/id/446544) with what there is to be had through voter fraud... and that is just ONE example.



But you still showed them! Rather than show up to the polls and say "I don't need to stinking ID!" you said "Eeek! I better get an ID!"

Good for you! and doing just what those evil people spending millions of dollars to try to stop you from voting wanted you to do... Having and producing ID when you vote!

More horseshyte.
1) We ain't talking about Mexico. It's not relevant to this discussion.
2)So a Mexican claims he committed voter fraud in the US. Is he telling the truth? How? Did he have ID? Would asking for photo ID have made any difference?
3)So some dumb rednecks are allegedly selling their votes? So they're using their own identities. How would asking for ID when voting have made a bit of difference?

BTW, the '10 cases of voter fraud' refers to in-person vote fraud that could have been prevented by asking for ID at the polling place - voter fraud that could actually be prevented by the new ID laws. Go back and read the links trish posted.

[buttslinger]

Like Bubba said, it's all Arithmetic.

[Prospero]

That map is depressing. Two Americas very clear.

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[BluegrassCat]

*facepalm*

But you still showed them! Rather than show up to the polls and say "I don't need to stinking ID!" you said "Eeek! I better get an ID!"

Good for you! and doing just what those evil people spending millions of dollars to try to stop you from voting wanted you to do... Having and producing ID when you vote!

If you find this confusing, you should spend less time staring at your hand and more time reading. The purpose of these laws is not to encourage IDs but to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters. People who deny this fact are working to undermine the democratic process and subvert years of civil rights progress. Trish & others have already thoroughly debunked your bullshit links. But you have a real future as a troll, just follow OMK's example and you'll be race-baiting like a pro in no time.

[Prospero]

If you find this confusing, you should spend less time staring at your hand and more time reading. The purpose of these laws is not to encourage IDs but to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters. People who deny this fact are working to undermine the democratic process and subvert years of civil rights progress. Trish & others have already thoroughly debunked your bullshit links. But you have a real future as a troll, just follow OMK's example and you'll be race-baiting like a pro in no time.

Good post Bluegrass.... but people like Bobvela and the notorious OMK really have no interest in evidence. It's prejudice all the way down the line.

[Prospero]

The most racially polarised election? Good piece in Today's Guardian by their US correspondent Gary Younge.

As Republicans were promoting themselves as a multiracial party from the platform in Tampa two weeks ago, an ugly incident on the convention floor suggested not everyone had got the memo. From the podium a range of speakers of Haitian, Mexican, Cuban and Indian descent spoke of how their parents had overcome huge barriers so they could succeed in the US. In the audience, a successful black woman who works for CNN was being pelted with peanuts by a convention-goer, who said: "This is how we feed the animals."

The tension between the projection of a modern, inclusive, tolerant party and the reality of a sizeable racially intolerant element within its base pining for the restoration of white privilege is neither new nor accidental. Indeed, it in no small part explains the trajectory of the Republican party for almost the last half century. In his diary, Richard Nixon's chief-of-staff, Bob Haldeman, described how his boss spelled out the racial contours of a new electoral game-plan to win southern and suburban whites over to the Republican party in the wake of the civil rights era. "You have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks," Nixon told him. "The key is to devise a system that recognises that while not appearing to."

This could be the final hurrah for what became known as Nixon's southern strategy in what is shaping up to be the most racially polarised election ever. Black support for the Republican party literally cannot get any lower. A recent Wall Street Journal poll had 0% of African-Americans saying they intend to vote for Romney. At 32%, support among Latinos is higher but still remains pathetically low given what Republicans need to win (40%) and what they have had in the past – in 2004 George W Bush won 44%. As a result, the party of Lincoln is increasingly dependent on just one section of the electorate – white people. To win, Romney needs 61% of the white vote from a white turnout of 74%. That's a lot. In 2008, John McCain got 55% from the same turnout. "This is the last time anyone will try to do this," one Republican strategist told the National Journal. And Republican consultant Ana Navarro told the Los Angeles Times: "Where his numbers are right now, we should be pressing the panic button."

There are two main reasons for this panic. The first is that the "system" Nixon referred to is now recognisable by most – particularly with a black president in the White House. As people have become more attuned to the frequency of the dog whistles, the tone has necessarily become more shrill. During the primaries, Rick Santorum told a crowd in New Hampshire: "I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money; I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money." Newt Gingrich branded Obama "the food stamp president". Just a few weeks ago, in a clear nod to the "birthers", who insist Obama was not born in the US, the party's nominee, Mitt Romney, went to Michigan and joked: "No one's ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place that we were born and raised." This is rhetorical peanut throwing. When everyone can hear it, you've transitioned from a dog whistle to a straight-up whistle.

Second, with white people destined to become a minority in a few decades, the strategy is no longer an anchor but a millstone. Tying Republican fortunes to the white vote made electoral sense in the early 1970s. Since 1980, the white share of the electorate has fallen in every consecutive election bar one – 1996, when Ross Perot ran. The more black and Latino voters the Republicans alienate, the more white voters they need to replace them. The trouble is they are fishing for a larger number in a smaller pool, which demands ever more juicy bait. "The demographics race we're losing badly," said Senator Lindsey Graham, acknowledging the problem. "We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."

But that's not for want of trying. In just one example, the New York Times' Thomas Edsall analyses a Romney ad lambasting Obama's healthcare reform. The ad states: "You paid into Medicare for years – every pay check. Now when you need it, Obama has cut $716bn from Medicare. Why? To pay for Obamacare. The money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare is going to a massive new government programme that is not for you."

Leave aside the fact that the ad is judged by Politifact as only half true and that the Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan has proposed a budget that would cut a similar amount from Medicare without healthcare reform. More than three-quarters of Medicare recipients are white; more than half those without health insurance are not white. By linking the two in this way, "Obamacare" thereby becomes a transfer of resources from hard working white retirees to indigent minority ethnic people. Meanwhile, Larry McCarthy, who produced the now infamously racist Willie Horton ad for George HW Bush's campaign in 1988, is working for one of the Super Pac's backing Romney.

Describing the evolution of the Republicans' racial appeal, the late Lee Atwater, one-time chair of the Republican National Committee and member of the Reagan administration, said in 1981. "You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger'. By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing [and] states' rights. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites … obviously sitting around saying, 'We want to cut this' is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'nigger, nigger'."

Reflecting on her experience in Tampa, Patricia Carroll, the CNN camerawoman who had peanuts thrown at her said: "I can't change these people's hearts and minds … This should be a wake-up call to black people … People were living in euphoria for a while. People think we're gone further than we have."

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[Prospero]

It is interesting how all the rightwingers here never red and respond to anything of any complexity... anything which offers genuine evidence of the nature of the beast that they support 9but cannot and will not be able to control at all once it attains office. Sad really.
Oh yes - bump.

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)
~bump~

[robertlouis]

Fifty years ago they beat blacks up to stop them from registering to vote. At least nowadays they've become a little more subtle. Yes, that IS sarcasm.

[bobvela]

More horseshyte.
1) We ain't talking about Mexico. It's not relevant to this discussion.

It was claimed here that voter fraud doesn't exist because there is no financial motive... I provided a case and a motive. QED.


2)So a Mexican claims he committed voter fraud in the US. Is he telling the truth? How? Did he have ID? Would asking for photo ID have made any difference?

So... you wish to demand more proof from a person claiming to have committed voter fraud than you wish to do from a person to avoid voter fraud... interesting.

"Hello Mr Person-Claiming-To-Be-A-Terrorist... we don’t quite believe you... please prove to us that that is actually a bomb you are carrying and you wish to do harm to us... don't mind those people who we are just letting bypass the metal detector... obviously they are not threats!


3)So some dumb rednecks are allegedly selling their votes? So they're using their own identities. How would asking for ID when voting have made a bit of difference?

I was unaware that anyone here (or elsewhere) was claiming that all voter fraud could be stopped if we simply asked everyone voting for ID... besides the point that fake IDs are not the most difficult thing to obtain... plenty of other avenues exist... which also must be more carefully watched... like absentee voting.


BTW, the '10 cases of voter fraud' refers to in-person vote fraud that could have been prevented by asking for ID at the polling place - voter fraud that could actually be prevented by the new ID laws. Go back and read the links trish posted.

And yet... that is not how she described them... which is why I used my speeding analogy... asking the Q of (like speeding) what % of actual violaters are caught.

None the less... it is good to see that you are joining Trish in willful ignorance... at least she's not alone in her delusions.

What's that? Just yesterday (Monday) another case of voter fraud has come to the surface (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/maryland-democrat-quits-congressional-race-amid-vote-fraud-allegations/2012/09/10/d0ff9b1e-fb73-11e1-b2af-1f7d12fe907a_blog.html)?

Thats right! In Maryland, a congressional canidate has withdrawn from the race (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/maryland-democrat-quits-congressional-race-amid-vote-fraud-allegations/2012/09/10/d0ff9b1e-fb73-11e1-b2af-1f7d12fe907a_blog.html) because it was discovered she wasn't just registered in two states (alas not an uncommon thing)... but actually voted in two different states during the same election... what do we call that? Thats right... VOTER FRAUD (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/maryland-democrat-quits-congressional-race-amid-vote-fraud-allegations/2012/09/10/d0ff9b1e-fb73-11e1-b2af-1f7d12fe907a_blog.html)! ... that makes it... what? 2 additional cases I've been able to point two in two days? I wonder how many more there could be!?!?!

How more wrong could Trish be!?!?! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/maryland-democrat-quits-congressional-race-amid-vote-fraud-allegations/2012/09/10/d0ff9b1e-fb73-11e1-b2af-1f7d12fe907a_blog.html)

I do find the whole 'bump' thing entertaining here as I am all for voters being required to show ID in order to vote... so am all for people going out and getting IDs in order to be able to do so!

Alas some states like Hawaii and Washington and the ease of permemant absentee voting make voter fraud even easier.

Did you know... in Washington State they require that an absentee voter (which most of the state is) signature match what is on file with the state... but for those who cannot sign the same way twice (or opt to engage in fraud)... you need only have two signatures to witness the 'mark' of the voter in order to have the ballot cast?

I've a friend who has lived there for a little while (including after the switch to permanent absentee) and she made it a point to come up with interesting ways to get is ballot signed by other people... sometimes by non-resident aliens who she works with, othertimes he'll just sign two different names himself... and to the Washington system... it's all fine and dandy! And obviously no one in the entire state abuses the system for fraud... not one single person. How do we know that? Because Trish & Cuchulain have said so!

[bobvela]

It is interesting how all the rightwingers here never red and respond to anything of any complexity... anything which offers genuine evidence of the nature of the beast that they support 9but cannot and will not be able to control at all once it attains office. Sad really.
Oh yes - bump.

Ahh willful ignorance at it's best... you keep bumping... I want all of you liberals to prove you are who you say you are when you go to vote... all the better to keep the dead & lazy (and who have votes cast on their behalf) from voting!

[Prospero]

Ahh.. the bigger the lie and the more frequent its telling, the more people believe it.
Bobvela - are you also one of those who doubt that Obama is truly American?

It is a ploy in Republican controlled states to disenfranchise the poorest voters - many of who are Democrats. Even some state's courts have recognised this.

Oh and I won't be voting in YOUR elections. Note here i live.

[danthepoetman]

Ahh willful ignorance at it's best... you keep bumping... I want all of you liberals to prove you are who you say you are when you go to vote... all the better to keep the dead & lazy (and who have votes cast on their behalf) from voting!

bobvela, you already have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, with the subtlety of your irresistible logic, that the “Liberals” are evil! What more do you want to accomplish here? Has Jesus sent you to oversee such evil? It seems to me there’s no need to do anything else, we’re all crushed by the power of the Lord, who probably speak through your words… Why would you be more insistent?
You posted 62 times on the forum. Do you have any interest here, besides defending the hard Right, if I might ask? The only explanation for me, is that you’re indeed on a mission from God.

[Willie Escalade]

I want all of you liberals to prove you are who you say you are when you go to vote... all the better to keep the dead & lazy (and who have votes cast on their behalf) from voting!

I WILL vote...I don't have to be to work until 6:30pm, so I'll have PLENTY of time to do so. I have a valid, state issued drivers' license, my social security card, AND a copy of my long-form birth certificate....and so does the rest of my family.

[buttslinger]

I hate repeating myself,
EVERYONE knows this is a scam by republican governors to suppress democratic votes.
call me a liar and prove your word means nothing. This isn't the Rush Limbaugh show.

[Cuchulain]

Describing the evolution of the Republicans' racial appeal, the late Lee Atwater, one-time chair of the Republican National Committee and member of the Reagan administration, said in 1981. "You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger'. By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing [and] states' rights. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites … obviously sitting around saying, 'We want to cut this' is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'nigger, nigger'."


Thanks for a great post, Prospero. Good old Lee Atwater. He's playing his guitar in Hell. I understand that Karl Rove keeps a shrine to Atwater in his basement, complete with a bloody sacrificial altar. The neighbor's pets keep disappearing mysteriously on nights when the moon is full, lol. :praying:

[Cuchulain]

It was claimed here ... it's all fine and dandy!

Lad, the first post in this thread talked about voter ID laws and the political purging of voting rolls in Fla. I and others have correctly pointed out that these laws are not needed. They only impact in-person vote fraud, which is one person trying to vote under someone else's identity. The cases of that happening in America have been shown to be statistically insignificant. However, the chances that these laws will prevent a significant number of honest voters from exercising their rights is a real and present danger.

Nobody but a blooming idiot would risk 5 yrs in prison and a $10k fine to cast a fake ballot. BUT, a large amount of Americans do not have the photo ID required to vote in many states. The road to getting that ID is not, in many cases, a smooth one. Now THAT could swing an election, and the repubs know it.

You and the other CONs keep trying to drag the discussion away from the new laws because you simply can't defend them. You continue to cite cases of fraud that stem from registration problems, which are real, but aren't fixed by photo ID legislation.

I'm in favor of cleaning up the voter rolls and preventing any shenanigans, but it must be done carefully, in a non-partisan way. I'd rather see a few bad votes go through than see a large number of folks get screwed.

[trish]

~bumb~

[trish]

Bob, you need to learn the difference between voter fraud and in-person voter fraud. That former cannot be stopped by asking for a picture ID at the polls. The latter very rarely happens.

[bobvela]

Ahh.. the bigger the lie and the more frequent its telling, the more people believe it.
Bobvela - are you also one of those who doubt that Obama is truly American?

Thank you for once again demonstrating the quality of your character... rather than address anything I said... you label me a birther.


It is a ploy in Republican controlled states to disenfranchise the poorest voters - many of who are Democrats. Even some state's courts have recoga
Ahh.. the bigger the lie and the more frequent its telling, the more people believe it.
Bobvela - are you also one of those who doubt that Obama is truly American?

Thank you for once again demonstrating the quality of your character... rather than address anything I said... you label me a birther.


It is a ploy in Republican controlled states to disenfranchise the poorest voters - many of who are Democrats. Even some state's courts have recognised this.

And yet many of those same states make picture IDs avalible to those who cannot afford one.

Of course you ignore the fact that some state courts have also upheld such laws (Pennsylvania)... or the fact that the DOJ has signed off on others (ex: New Hampshire)nised this.

And yet many of those same states make picture IDs avalible to those who cannot afford one.

Of course you ignore the fact that some state courts have also upheld such laws (Pennsylvania)... or the fact that the DOJ has signed off on others (ex: New Hampshire)... so let me guess... the judges who ruled against such laws are wise and true... but those who allowed such laws are racists and trying to keep the poor from voting? Riiiight.

[bobvela]

Bob, you need to learn the difference between voter fraud and in-person voter fraud. That former cannot be stopped by asking for a picture ID at the polls. The latter very rarely happens.

Voter fraud is voter fraud... regardless of kind... as (as I’ve said) there are many kinds... and unlike you, I think reasonable steps should be taken to prevent it at all levels.

In a rational system, you create a defense-in-depth strategy too make it as hard as possible to commit such fraud.

We scrub voter rolls of felons, the dead, those who have moved and registered elsewhere, as well as those otherwise ineligible (and shouldn’t have been on them in the first place).

You create an artificial barrier to say "We should do nothing about the possibility in-person voter fraud (which obviously is a whole nother kind!!!) because it simply doesn't exist"... all the why denying a very useful way to detect if it was attempted.

Again though... why let irrational ranting get in the way of facts?

Did you know that after Georgia instituted their voter ID law (http://www.governing.com/news/state/mct-black-clergy-target-voter-turnout-challenges.html) (which by the way has been upheld by the courts)... they actually saw turnout increase?


However, a Heritage Foundation report using state data said Georgia has issued 26,000 voter IDs since its law passed, and minority turnout has spiked in recent years. Even without Obama on the ballot, the 2010 midterm election saw a 66 percent increase in Latino voters and a 44 percent increase in African-American voters over 2006. The white vote grew 11 percent.

[trish]

I think reasonable steps should be taken to prevent it at all levels.Apparently you don't. You're in hysterics about in-person voting fraud which takes place once in a blue moon and your party is neither saying nor doing anything whatsoever about any other kind of voter fraud. The photo ID laws are design only to be effective against the kind of fraud that doesn't take place...the in-person voter fraud. To stop one potential irregular vote you are willing to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people. But that doesn't matter because those will be predominately democratic vote. We see your game.

[martin48]

We are so easy going in UK - they send you a voting reminder card, which you don't have to take the polling station. You get there and say you are Fred Blogs - the clerk draws a line through your name in the register - writes a number on your voting slip (the only safeguard), stamps the slip. You go behind a curtain and using the special blunt little pencil hanging off a string you put a 'X' against the name you want elected. Fold slip in half and put in ballot box. Seems to work without much problem.

But as they say in Ireland - vote early, vote often

[martin48]

Apparently you don't. You're in hysterics about in-person voting fraud which takes place once in a blue moon and your party is neither saying nor doing anything whatsoever about any other kind of voter fraud. The photo ID laws are design only to be effective against the kind of fraud that doesn't take place...the in-person voter fraud. To stop one potential irregular vote you are willing to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people. But that doesn't matter because those will be predominately democratic vote. We see your game.

Stealing my picture - going to have to ask you for your photo ID

[NYBURBS]

Interesting article from 2004:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_urbanities-election.html

[Cuchulain]

Interesting article from 2004:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_urbanities-election.html

Always good to see you posting, Comrade BURBS. The historical part of the article was fun and interesting. The second part is when the author shows his true colors. He ends by saying "wouldn't it be better if we did something about the problem now—even if it's as simple as requiring everyone who votes to show an ID?" But it's not that simple and his whole article demonstrated that.

All the nastiness he reported involved registration problems, registration fraud, election fraud and voter fraud committed by people with ID. I'm sure as Hell not defending any of it, but none of it could have been prevented by demanding photo ID at the polling place.

I got a kick out of the part where the author suggest that folks who register to vote when renewing their driver's license are somehow not showing ID. WTF?

Then he goes into the Florida 2000 debacle. He makes some points, but he states "Election officials wrongly identified thousands of people as felons, most of them minorities, thus preventing them from voting under the state's election laws." Then he says " 5,600 people voted whose names matched those of convicted felons". As I recall, there were 50-80k legal voters misidentified as felons and prevented from voting. I don't remember the exact figure, but it was a HELL of a lot more than 5600.

Look, let's fix our election system. Let's try to get rid of all the horseshit, including the vote caging and other dirty tricks repubs are so fond of. We shouldn't do it by making good people jump through hoops to get photo ID, because that only prevents a very tiny % of fraud and does potentially stop a much larger number of American citizens from voting.

Be well, BURBS.

[Cuchulain]

This was just too good to pass up. Here's a tweet from the Mad Money guy, Jim Cramer - "I have a problem. My dad, a vet, won't be allowed to vote in Pa. because he does not drive, he is elderly, and can't prove his citizenship." http://www.bradblog.com/

A little later in the article the Bradblog links an article about an ancient case used by the judge who upheld the Pennsylvania photo ID law. Here's some delicious quotes from that 1869 ruling:

“rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors’ boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes.”


“would be to place the vicious vagrant, the wandering Arabs, the Tartar hordes of our large cities, on a level with the virtuous and good man.”

[onmyknees]

I hate repeating myself,
EVERYONE knows this is a scam by republican governors to suppress democratic votes.
call me a liar and prove your word means nothing. This isn't the Rush Limbaugh show.


That's what happens when you win elections. If your team wasn't "shellacked" in the 2010 elections, there wouldn't be so many new Republican Governors and State Legislators , but you were shellacked, and these new governors are implementing voter ID laws that are supported by the citizens of those states. Now do you understand how it works ? As Barry said to McCain during the 2009 Health Care Summit...."John..we won" I say..."Buttsucker...you lost".

[onmyknees]

This.......

[trish]

Photo ID laws are designed to eliminate in-person voter fraud (a form of fraud that occurs once in a blue moon) and their implementation in pennsylvania alone will disenfranchise 700 000 voters (Jim Cramer's father could not obtain a legal ID to vote until PENNDOT got worried about the bad publicity). In order to sift out one illegal in-person voter, the GOP is okay with disenfranchising hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million, voters...most of them poor, minorities, elderly or students...most of them democratic votes. It's not fraud they're worried about, it's the election.

[buttslinger]

I say..."Buttsucker...you lost".

Well Convict, your hero Williard can't take the White House without Ohio and Michigan and he's down 4 points in Ohio and out in Michigan. Maybe you should switch from the Fox network to the Cartoon network. Or if you want to Man Up, my offer to put your money where your mouth is still stands. Feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya????? ha ha ha

[NYBURBS]

Always good to see you posting, Comrade BURBS. The historical part of the article was fun and interesting. The second part is when the author shows his true colors. He ends by saying "wouldn't it be better if we did something about the problem now—even if it's as simple as requiring everyone who votes to show an ID?" But it's not that simple and his whole article demonstrated that.

All the nastiness he reported involved registration problems, registration fraud, election fraud and voter fraud committed by people with ID. I'm sure as Hell not defending any of it, but none of it could have been prevented by demanding photo ID at the polling place.

I got a kick out of the part where the author suggest that folks who register to vote when renewing their driver's license are somehow not showing ID. WTF?

Then he goes into the Florida 2000 debacle. He makes some points, but he states "Election officials wrongly identified thousands of people as felons, most of them minorities, thus preventing them from voting under the state's election laws." Then he says " 5,600 people voted whose names matched those of convicted felons". As I recall, there were 50-80k legal voters misidentified as felons and prevented from voting. I don't remember the exact figure, but it was a HELL of a lot more than 5600.

Look, let's fix our election system. Let's try to get rid of all the horseshit, including the vote caging and other dirty tricks repubs are so fond of. We shouldn't do it by making good people jump through hoops to get photo ID, because that only prevents a very tiny % of fraud and does potentially stop a much larger number of American citizens from voting.

Be well, BURBS.

Sup Bro, nice to see you. Yea I also found the first part of the article more interesting than the latter half, but it also raises some good points. I personally think there is probably more fraud by both parties than either of them would like to admit, and I'm opposed to it in any form. I do agree that many republicans are pushing this to hold down the democratic vote, but at the same time I think many democrats are willing to turn a blind eye to some of the fraud if it allows them to get as many people out to vote for them as possible. It's really just politics, unfortunately, and not principal being played out here.

[NYBURBS]

This.......

Yea and it played out on the floor of the republican convention too, Maine delegates for Ron Paul not being seated and that phony ass voice vote that they refused to do a roll call on.

[buttslinger]

EVERYONE knows this is a scam by republican governors to suppress democratic votes.

What kind of idiot believes you should lose your right to vote because you lost your wallet?

What kind of World Leader believes Jesus dropped by North America in 1876,
and one percent tax for billionaires will save the economy?

If Jesus appears and starts turning away voters from the polls I want him arrested immediately.

Because with all it's flaws and misunderstandings, The United States starts and ends with voting. That's the day WE are the DECIDERS. That's the day we decide who we are. That's what people have fought and died for.

No man and no Law shall stand between an American and the voting booth.

Voting is no some "trick" cooked up by the Democrats to make Republicans look bad. I'm sick of it.

[Faldur]

What kind of idiot believes you should lose your right to vote because you lost your wallet?

Have fun cashing a check, driving your car, buying a six pack or smokes, pick up your welfare check, apply for your food stamps, gaining entry to the democratic convention, traveling by airplane, or getting checked into the hospital. They all won't happen until your id is presented. Cry me a river..


No man and no Law shall stand between an American and the voting booth.

Ya, well the US Government requires that A) you be a US Citizen, and B) You are over 18, (some states vary, 17 in places). So just like your bank, local law enforcement, store clerk selling beer/cigs, welfare office, food stamp administrator, or hospital. If a state would like to see your id to ensure you meet requirement A & B your fucked. Grow a pair and get over it. Really your embarrassing yourself.

[buttslinger]

Grow a pair and get over it. Really your embarrassing yourself.

And yet enough of my friends agree with me enough to give Obama four more years!!!! Get over THAT!!!

[Prospero]

Welcome back Faldur. Hope your next post has more than mere insults.

[Stavros]

Surely, Prospero, Faldur's point is that Americans already have photo ID to do 101 and one things, and that it therefore suggests it is not impossible for them to get photo ID to vote. The real issue, as discussed in Politics & Religion, is whether or not imposing on the voter's need/ability to purchase another form of Photo ID to vote is a Poll Tax. That is the core issue. You can't get on an aeroplane without valid ID, although I suppose you can if your passport says James Bond, as long as the photo matches...

[yodajazz]

EVERYONE knows this is a scam by republican governors to suppress democratic votes.

What kind of idiot believes you should lose your right to vote because you lost your wallet?

What kind of World Leader believes Jesus dropped by North America in 1876,
and one percent tax for billionaires will save the economy?

If Jesus appears and starts turning away voters from the polls I want him arrested immediately.

Because with all it's flaws and misunderstandings, The United States starts and ends with voting. That's the day WE are the DECIDERS. That's the day we decide who we are. That's what people have fought and died for.

No man and no Law shall stand between an American and the voting booth.

Voting is no some "trick" cooked up by the Democrats to make Republicans look bad. I'm sick of it.
:claps:claps:claps

During one recent election my driver's license, was being held my a municipality, to whom I owed money for a traffic fine. I was able to show current utility bills, to prove my address. I may have had a photo copy of my i.d., but if so that was not suffcient. So my point is more stuff happens to people, when they dont have adequate cash. Democracy is an important part of human empowerement. Mnay people suffered, and some even died fighting for the right to vote, here in the US, and in my lifetime for those rights to be extended.

The laws take the right to vote for all felons, disproportionately effects poor and minorities. I know some people will say, dont commit crimes, but people do make mistakes. And those same people are capable of learning from thier mistakes, and then go on, to help to build a better community. Punishing people for the rest of their lives for anything but the most serious of crimes, goes against the principles of Forgiveness, spoken of many times in the Bible, and by Jesus himself. Yet some of the same people who claim to be for Chirstian principles in the nation, hold unforgivness, and negativity, in their hearts, for certain types of people, including a very broad category of people, they call 'liberals'.

[onmyknees]

EVERYONE knows this is a scam by republican governors to suppress democratic votes.

What kind of idiot believes you should lose your right to vote because you lost your wallet?

What kind of World Leader believes Jesus dropped by North America in 1876,
and one percent tax for billionaires will save the economy?

If Jesus appears and starts turning away voters from the polls I want him arrested immediately.

Because with all it's flaws and misunderstandings, The United States starts and ends with voting. That's the day WE are the DECIDERS. That's the day we decide who we are. That's what people have fought and died for.

No man and no Law shall stand between an American and the voting booth.

Voting is no some "trick" cooked up by the Democrats to make Republicans look bad. I'm sick of it.

I'm sick of you and your hysterical high school nonsence. You don't even sound old enough to vote . We require little of our citizens. A social security number if you want to participate in the work force. A birth certificate if you want to participate in international travel, and some sort of ID to participate in our democracy. And if you don't have one......the State will help you get one......FREE. It's really not that much of an imposition unless you're not who you say you are, or just came down from living in the Rockies with Jeremiah Johnson for the past 100 years . All this bullshit about lost wallets and voter suppression is pure garbage....a red herring. Maybe you're oblivious to the fact we have 10-12 million illegals living and working here ? How are we to distinguish them from legals at the voting booths ? Your homework assignment is to find some examples of legitimate citizens who were denied the right to vote by as you call Republican Governors trying to suppress the vote, and not some civil servant simply screwing up. Then please refer their names to the ACLU. They work for free . Fladur's right.....grow up. Now could I see some ID please ?

[runningdownthatdream]

I'm sick of you and your hysterical high school nonsence. You don't even sound old enough to vote . We require little of our citizens. A social security number if you want to participate in the work force. A birth certificate if you want to participate in international travel, and some sort of ID to participate in our democracy. And if you don't have one......the State will help you get one......FREE. It's really not that much of an imposition unless you're not who you say you are, or just came down from living in the Rockies with Jeremiah Johnson for the past 100 years . All this bullshit about lost wallets and voter suppression is pure garbage....a red herring. Maybe you're oblivious to the fact we have 10-12 million illegals living and working here ? How are we to distinguish them from legals at the voting booths ? Your homework assignment is to find some examples of legitimate citizens who were denied the right to vote by as you call Republican Governors trying to suppress the vote, and not some civil servant simply screwing up. Then please refer their names to the ACLU. They work for free . Fladur's right.....grow up. Now could I see some ID please ?

All hyperbole and vitriol aside, I agree with you. It IS a red herring being waved by your GOP and everyone else is taking the bait. How can a vote be trusted if the voter hasn`t proven that he/she is entitled to vote!?

In Ontario, we must present ID along with voter registration card at the polling station and I think that`s just good sense: http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

[trish]

Over 11% of eligible voters have no photo ID. Seven hundred thousand voters in Pennsylvania alone will be disenfranchised.

We can trust in-person voters because we always have. For more than a decade there have been only ten documented cases of in-perso voter fraud in the entire nation.

The new voter ID laws only target in-person voter fraud, they are laws that address a non-existent crime and which will disenfranchise a million voters.

Pennsylvania representative Turzai who framed that State's new voter ID laws actually admitted to a GOP audience that they were designed to secure the State for Romney.

If you haven't got your ID yet, do so. Don't let wannabe republican tyrants and GOP bullies tread on you.

[buttslinger]

Fladur's right.....grow up. Now could I see some ID please ?

Did I hit a nerve?

Thank you for weighing in for the lunatic fringe.

I got your ID right here:

I threw my ka-jones on the table and I threw my money down on the table but I haven't heard a peep from the big blowhardian Onmyknees.

I have a way that proves that even you know Fox and Romney and Ryan are all full o' shit.

I offered a small wager of $1000 on the presidential election, the loser pays a grand to the Lady of the winner's choice from this forum. I heard you was a welcher, I want to see you show your face around here after you lose and fail to treat one of HA's Finest to an early Christmas present. I honestly don't think you'll take the bet, and that's my point. That when it comes time to back up all the Fox Shit you spout, you're just another dead air loser.

This voter ID thing is just an attempt to scare away voters, but it's guys like onmyknees that are scared. Intimidating black voters is a time honored tradition with guys like him. If the rest of you want to get on board, so be it. Nice try, but we gotcha.

[mtbazz]

I personally always found it odd that I DIDN'T need photo ID to vote.

This...

And who the hell doesnt a photo ID? You need it for so many things...Opening a bank account, getting OTC cold meds, in some places you need it even when mailing a package...

[Prospero]

yawn.... it's all about disenfranchising the poor. it's been said over the over and its true.

[Prospero]

High School nonsense eh OMK... read this then you dumb little fool. This is by a professor. From Florida. With a good deal more knowledge than you,

For those who want to see quite the full implications of this trickery... this is an excellent essay by a professor of law at Florida State University, Diane Robert.

IT'S FLORIDA, STUPID

As the great baseball player and master tautologist
Yogi Berra remarked, “it’s like déja vu all over
again.” This year’s presidential contest between
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney threatens to
become a replay of Florida’s inglorious election
imbroglio of 2000, those heady five weeks when the state counted
and recounted votes, chased butterfly ballots, and examined
pregnant chads to figure out who had actually won: George W
Bush or Al Gore. It was not an edifying spectacle. Jimmy Carter,
the former president whose Atlanta-based Carter Center sends
election observers to the likes of Paraguay, Nicaragua and East
Timor, declared that the “basic international requirements for a
fair election are missing in Florida.” Fidel Castro called Florida
a “banana republic.” The rest of the world began to refer to
the state as “FloriDUH.” The result of this year’s presidential
election could come down to Florida once more and the way it is
arrived at could be just as unsatisfactory as in 2000.
Thanks to improved voting technology, Florida no longer
has chads to dimple, dangle or otherwise, and happily, the butterfly
ballot is extinct. But Florida has not become the model
of democracy all parties promised post-2000. Both Democrats
and Republicans anticipate trouble on 6th November, election
day, and perhaps beyond. Bill Daley, the former White House
has warned the Obama campaign team they’d betwho worked for George W Bush during the last recount battle,
says Republicans will “have enough lawyers to handle all situations”
in Florida. Republicans raise the spectre of voter fraud,
with felons and foreigners illicitly swinging the election in favour
of Democrats and Barack Obama. Democrats say the real problem
is voter suppression, pointing to neo-Jim Crow restrictions
imposed by Republicans. All this takes place against the backdrop
of Florida’s swelling Latino population—in pursuing “illegal”
voters, Republicans risk alienating a crucial constituency.
In 2000, 12,000 Floridians were wrongly disenfranchised. The
private company hired to “clean up” the state’s electoral rolls,
striking off people who were dead or felons or otherwise ineligible,
made a mess of the job. Not that the candidate’s brother Governor
Jeb Bush or Secretary of State Katherine Harris seemed
overly concerned. The database was so slipshod that Floridians
with the same birthdate as criminals incarcerated in another
state were turned away from polling places. One Johnny Jackson,
Jr, an upstanding Florida citizen by all accounts, got confused
with one John Fitzgerald Jackson, who was serving time in
a Texas prison. Violating the space-time continuum, several hundred
people were listed as convicted of felonies some years in the
future. Harris, at the time both Florida’s chief elections officer
and co-chair of George W Bush’s Florida presidential campaign,
was not only nonchalant about these “false positives,” she let it
be known that she wanted more names to purge, not fewer. While
African Americans made up 11 per cent of Florida’s electorate,
according to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University,
they comprised nearly half of those removed from the voter
lists. Since African Americans favoured Gore over Bush by 85 to
15 per cent, it’s a safe bet that if even a quarter of the disenfranchised
had voted, the election would have had a different result.
As it was, the United States Supreme Court declared Bush the
winner in Florida by a total of 537 votes.
These days, Katherine Harris is a private citizen, and Jeb
Bush is rumoured to be plotting a political future beyond 2012
when his surname may be a bit less toxic. Yet Florida is at it
again. Charlie Crist, the moderate Republican (recently turned
independent) who replaced Jeb Bush as governor in 2007, had
relaxed Florida’s restrictions on voting by former felons, arguing
that when they had paid their debt to society they should regain
the rights of citizens. When hardliner Rick Scott took office in
2011, he overturned Crist’s more liberal policy—clearly too many
of the wrong sort had been allowed to cast ballots in 2008, giving
Florida to Barack Obama by 200,000 votes.
Scott and the Republican-controlled legislature pushed
through new laws making it difficult for non-profit non-partisan
groups such as the League of Women Voters and the Boy
Scouts to sign people up to vote. Completed registration forms
had to be presented at the county election supervisor’s office not
one minute more than 48 hours from when they were signed, on
pain of prosecution. In Okaloosa County, Florida, the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People tried to register
new voters during January’s Martin Luther King Day weekend,
only to be threatened with a thousand dollars in fines and
a possible third-degree felony—they failed to deliver their forms
within 48 hours because the county offices were closed on Monday
in observance of the federal holiday. The NAACP was soon
contacted by the state elections chief: “We appreciate you going
out and registering voters,” the letter read. “However, if you’re
late anymore we’re going to turn this over to the Florida Department
of Justice for prosecution.”
As soon as the law was implemented in May, new voter registration
plummeted. While Florida’s population went up in
the past four years, the number of people signing up for a voter
card, without which they cannot cast a ballot, has gone down by
81,000. Several advocacy groups sued. An exasperated-sounding
federal judge overturned much of the law, saying, “If the goal is
to discourage voter registration drives and thus also to make it
harder for new voters to register, this may work. Otherwise there
is little reason for such a requirement.”
Unfortunately, the part of the law the judge didn’t throw
out allows the state to restrict early voting. Formerly,
citizens could cast a vote at the county courthouse
up to two weeks before the day of the election. This
period has now been reduced to eight days. Florida’s Republican
masters claim it’s a money-saving measure and anyway, there
are still eight early voting days. Democrats, however, charge that
Republicans want to depress turn-out by their voters, especially
students, the elderly, hourly-wage workers who can’t afford to
be off work for three or more hours standing in an election-day
queue, and African Americans. In 2008, 54 per cent of early voters
were black. The Sunday before election day when churches
mobilise “Souls to the Polls” efforts was especially popular. This
year, voting is also not allowed on the Sunday before election day.
Ion Sancho, who is the elections supervisor of Leon County, Florida,
predicts that, on election day, voters will have to wait several
hours and that precinct workers will be overwhelmed, saying he
fears Florida’s polling locations won’t be able to accommodate
the 8m voters projected to turn out in the general election.
Republicans have not been sympathetic. Mike Bennett, state
senator, argued that in Africa “the people in the desert literally
walk two- and three-hundred miles so they can have the opportunity
to do what we do, and we want to make it more convenient?”
However blatant these attempts to discourage the Democratic
vote, watchdog groups say that they’re small beer compared to
Republicans’ renewed attempts to purge the voter rolls. Last
year, Rick Scott, the governor of Florida, ordered his secretary
of state to scour the rolls for ineligible voters. He says he merely
wants to make sure that everyone who casts a ballot is a genuine
citizen of the US and not some border-jumping Mexican or smuggled
Salvadoran, a dead person or perhaps a cartoon character
(one “Mickey Mouse” did once attempt to register in Orlando,
but failed). A preliminary cull of 182,000 names was dispatched
to the state’s 67 county elections supervisors for verification. It
did not take long before they noticed that the list was curiously
light on white people and Republicans and heavy on African
Americans, Latinos, and those registered as either independents
or Democrats. Nevertheless, the supervisors did their jobs and
while they failed to scare up any members of the Choir Invisible
or denizens of Disney World, they did uncover a preponderance
of dodgy characters such as: Maureen Russo and Manoly Castro-
Williamson, two middle-aged ladies born in the exotic land
of Ohio; some second world war veterans including a 91-year-old
fellow named Bill Internicola who won the Bronze Star at the
Battle of the Bulge; and a great many recently naturalised citizens
eagerly looking forward to casting their first vote as Americans
and rather taken aback to be ordered either to produce their
papers or face jail time.
The problem with voter fraud (as practised by individual voters,
at least) is that it barely exists. The Brennan Center hasanalysed instances of “voter fraud” over the last four election
cycles and concludes that instances of it are rarer than being
struck by lightning or attacked by a shark. In an attempt to disprove
such studies, the Republican National Lawyers Association
prepared its own finding, a whopping 311 cases of alleged
voter fraud in the US over the past 15 years. Many of those cases
were thrown out of court, others involved mistakes (registering
twice, failing to report a change of address), a very few were
actually prosecuted. An investigation by the Tampa Bay Times,
Florida’s largest newspaper, revealed that of the state’s 11menrolled voters, 86 non-citizens have been unmasked and 46 of
those may have voted illegally at some point over the past couple
of decades. No prosecutions have been brought. Not exactly
an orgy of criminal behaviour at the ballot box. The Brennan
Center concludes: “The voter fraud phantom drives policy that
disenfranchises actual legitimate voters without a corresponding
actual benefit.”
Nevertheless, Republicans remain convinced that the only
way Democrats can win elections is by getting illegal aliens to
vote. One Wisconsin state senator recently praised his state’s
stringent new ID standards saying, “we believe the people who
cheat are more likely to vote against us.” Many Republicans still
believe Barack Obama won Florida in 2008 by “cheating” with
the help of groups such as the now-defunct Association of Community
Organisations for Reform Now (ACOR N), which focused
on registering the poor and members of ethnic minorities—and,
according to bitter Republicans, illegal immigrant voters. Never
mind the total lack of evidence; never mind that illegal immigrants
usually prefer to keep a low profile and try to avoid doing
things that would get them deported or sent to jail.
Legal immigrants, however, are another matter, and, in Florida
especially, a legitimate source of Republican worry. The
Democrats can count on the African-American vote, the women’s
vote and a substantial amount of votes from Jews and pensioners.
The Republicans know they’ll get most of the vote from
white people (or, as Romney’s advisor would have it, “Anglo Saxons”),
the affluent, anti-government Tea Party types and Christian
evangelicals. Latino voters will decide who wins Florida.
In 2000, Cubans made up the largest group by far of Latinos
in Florida. In 2012 there are almost as many Puerto Ricans (who
are American citizens) as Cubans. The “I-4 Corridor” (so-called
for the motorway which runs across the middle of Florida) has
seen its population increase by nearly half a million in the last
decade, of which 250,000 are Puerto Rican. Most of them lean
Democratic.
It used to be that Democrats would barely bother trying to get
Cuban votes: Cubans were militantly Republican, revering Ronald
Reagan for standing up to Fidel Castro. But lately Democrats
are making progress: in 2008, Barack Obama won 47 per cent of
the Cuban-American vote in Florida. He got more than 60 per
cent of the Puerto Rican vote. Recent polls indicate that Latinos
in Florida—and nationally—favour Obama by about two to one.
Republicans claim that’s only because Obama has pandered to them, appointing Sonia Sotomayor, a Puerto-Rican American,
to the Supreme Court and declaring that he would not deport
those who were brought to the US illegally as children. Though
Republicans point to some of their prominent Cuban-American
politicians, Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Senator
Marco Rubio to name two from Florida, the party has done
itself no favours with its refusal to help with the passage of the
DRE AM Act, which would allow young undocumented people
to join the US military or go to university as legal residents. Nor
have Republican-run states such as Alabama and Arizona, with
their unabashedly xenophobic new immigration laws, helped.
Arizona’s notorious sheriff Joe Arpaio, who described Mexicans
as “dirty” and who spent taxpayer money sending his “posse” to
Hawaii to “prove” that Barack Obama’s birth certificate was a
“fraud,” is currently on trial for detaining Latinos—or people he
thinks look sort of like Latinos—without probable cause. Even if,
despite the fond dreams of Democrats, the home state of Senator
John McCain will not be in play during this election, the publicity
surrounding Arpaio, the “your papers, please” legislation, and
the ban on teaching the history of Latinos in Arizona schools, has
helped drive Latinos firmly into the arms of Democrats.
This is frustrating to Republicans who realise their party cannot
survive if it remains an angry old white men’s club. After all,
the US is projected to become a “majority minority” nation by
2060, by which time Latinos will form the single largest ethnic
group. Jeb Bush, recast by default as a “moderate” (he’s also a
fluent Spanish speaker married to a Mexican American), suggested
that Mitt Romney needs to ditch the Tea Party rhetoric:
“Don’t just talk about Hispanics and say immediately we must
have controlled borders. It’s kind of insulting.”
The general election is just two months away and what happens
in Florida may depend on what happens in the courts. Voting
rights groups are suing over access to the polls before election
day; the governor is urging supervisors of elections to keep purging
their lists, though federal law forbids that within 90 days of
an election. Because of Florida’s Old South segregationist past—
its unconstitutional disenfranchisement of former slaves in 1877,
its implementation of poll taxes and literacy tests, its long, hateful
history of denying people of colour the vote—the Department
of Justice, under the Voting Rights Act of 1965, will have the final
say over the way in which Florida votes. No matter what happens,
just about everybody believes that the election will come down to
whoever gets their voters out—and which votes get counted[/QUOTE]

[Prospero]

Or are there too many difficult words for you... or more likely unpalatable truths.

[buttslinger]

I just checked the net to make sure I'm a REGISTERED voter in my state. I am.

Here's more info.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

[trish]

Over11% of eligible voters don't have a picture ID. In Cities the number is larger. In Philadelphia it's over 20%. People who don't drive don't need one. If you don't insist on sudafed you can indeed buy cold medicines without any sort of ID and banks do generally require photo IDs for setting up an account...you can even do it on line. Turzai let the cat out of the bag. Photo voter IDs are about voter suppression and nothing else. What kind of can hear the GOP literally admit this and then double down the GOP line? Answer: people who want to suppress your vote. Get your ID, help your family and neighbors to get theirs. Make every citizen can vote.

[Jericho]

This...

And who the hell doesnt a photo ID? You need it for so many things...Opening a bank account, getting OTC cold meds, in some places you need it even when mailing a package...

Bloody hell...Where? :shock:

Really, i mean it, if that's true, I'm fukkin shocked!!!

[SFTB]

Vote, just vote. ( Okay, watch the video and vote)

WORDS MATTER: Original Obama Un-narrated Documentary/Review (Exposed: in his own words) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8R5GvwUFU8)

[Prospero]

View the video - see the clever games whoever edited it did - read and understand what the GOP will do for the poor of America... and who really funds them....and then vote

[SFTB]

see the clever games whoever edited it did

Very clever...how they took his words..his promises, then showed him, in his words break them. But Prospero, that video isn't for someone with a closed mind.

[Prospero]

You're the one with the closed mind old buddy... why not take a real hard look at how the Koch brothers have manipulated the Tea party for a start... tak a look at how the GOP is the party of big business.. and at the racism inherent in the way they are trying to block votes. You guys wanna turn the clock back.

But then i recall you're the guy who thinks concealed combat weapons are acceptable... and as i recall also thought that the historical treatment of the Native Americans was perfectly acceptable too.

[buttslinger]

I didn't look at the whole video, what did it say, Obama's a bad guy???...
Hey, I can see that video 24/7 on Fox.
Don't you hard core tea party types know the republican party wiped their ass with you as soon as Mitt was nominated as your fearless leader?
The Koch Bros don't want a bunch of moronic true believers fucking up their business, that's why they spent a fortune carpet bombing the primary states against Newt, Santorum and all those other distant memories.
You really think Mitt's going to stand up for your values? Then you're watching the bullshit video made by the guys who made that video!!
Custom Made to make inbred idiots think they're not going to do the same thing to the Country they did in the Bush Administration. Eat it up, Republicans....nobody gets anything by you!!!!!

If you believe transsexuals are people, not deviants,
Register and VOTE!!!

[SFTB]

I didn't look at the whole video, what did it say,

It didnt say anything, it was all video of Barry saying one thing, and then doing another.

"CHANGE"

[buttslinger]

It didnt say anything, it was all video of Barry saying one thing, and then doing another.

I think what Barry was "doing" was your party. And I think he's gonna "do it" some more in the next four years. ENJOY. I will.

[Prospero]

... bump

[mtbazz]

Bloody hell...Where? :shock:

Really, i mean it, if that's true, I'm fukkin shocked!!!

Many of the UPS stores and similar shipping places near me (philly area), require a photo ID to ship a package through them...

[trish]

Nonsense. You can ship a living room sofa without a photo ID in the MidWest, proving that not everywhere is a photo-ID required to ship a package or create a checking or savings account. Over 11% of eligible voters do not have picture IDs of any kind and the percentage is higher in urban areas.

[onmyknees]

Eric the Witholder

[yodajazz]

All hyperbole and vitriol aside, I agree with you. It IS a red herring being waved by your GOP and everyone else is taking the bait. How can a vote be trusted if the voter hasn`t proven that he/she is entitled to vote!?

In Ontario, we must present ID along with voter registration card at the polling station and I think that`s just good sense: http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

Like I said, my Driver's license was confiscated until I paid off a traffic fine, at the time of an election. In such a case, should I be prohibited from voting, because I didn't have enough money? To purchase a state i.d., then amounts to a poll tax in such a case. Incidently I was ticketed while going to a recording session, in a communtiy with very little minorities, living there. None of the four others, who drove to the session were pulled over. They were all White. But the policeman claimed I was driving eractically, probably because I made a quick turn. I was unfamiliar with the streets, and one of the streets I needed to make a turn on, came up quicker that I expected. The policeman searched my vehicle, even going through my music equipment cases. But I did have an expired registration, and got a ticket.

Here in Ohio we had our own Republican sponsored 'voter supression act'. Wthi them rolling back voting times, etc. Part of that law, was struck down by the court.

[theoryman]

In Michigan, we have needed ID to vote since before 2000.

Whats the big deal?

--

[danthepoetman]

Here in the Sea of Sargasso, they demand the digital prints, the dna and they take some mug shots of you. Then, if you don’t vote for the proper candidate, they cut your hand with a machete. We all would be ok with a few irregularities, even with a few dead guys voting if it was just that…

[Prospero]

The big deal - he said his voice getting hoarse through repetition - is the way that Republican controlled states have bulldozed through a set of obstructions to make it harder for the poor - and often this means Democrat voting African Americans - to use their rights to vote.

[Faldur]

The big deal - he said his voice getting hoarse through repetition - is the way that Republican controlled states have bulldozed through a set of obstructions to make it harder for the poor - and often this means Democrat voting African Americans - to use their rights to vote.

Do you read what you write? You can't possibly equate "may I see your ID" to bulldozing and oppressing the poor. There is a federal requirement to vote, if a state chooses to enforce that requirement so be it. How do you react at the bank when they ask for your id?

This is such a classic example from the so called "tolerant" ones of extremism. This is how you twist a tax paying citizen who doesn't feel they should have to pay for a 31 year old law students recreational birth control into "you want women to die in the streets because they couldn't get an abortion".

People take a good hard look at this, simple enforcement to ensure you meet a basic requirement, and you would think they were locking poor people up in camps.

[Prospero]

Faldur - read this and respond please.

s an excellent essay by a professor of law at Florida State University, Diane Roberts.

IT'S FLORIDA, STUPID

As the great baseball player and master tautologist
Yogi Berra remarked, “it’s like déja vu all over
again.” This year’s presidential contest between
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney threatens to
become a replay of Florida’s inglorious election
imbroglio of 2000, those heady five weeks when the state counted
and recounted votes, chased butterfly ballots, and examined
pregnant chads to figure out who had actually won: George W
Bush or Al Gore. It was not an edifying spectacle. Jimmy Carter,
the former president whose Atlanta-based Carter Center sends
election observers to the likes of Paraguay, Nicaragua and East
Timor, declared that the “basic international requirements for a
fair election are missing in Florida.” Fidel Castro called Florida
a “banana republic.” The rest of the world began to refer to
the state as “FloriDUH.” The result of this year’s presidential
election could come down to Florida once more and the way it is
arrived at could be just as unsatisfactory as in 2000.
Thanks to improved voting technology, Florida no longer
has chads to dimple, dangle or otherwise, and happily, the butterfly
ballot is extinct. But Florida has not become the model
of democracy all parties promised post-2000. Both Democrats
and Republicans anticipate trouble on 6th November, election
day, and perhaps beyond. Bill Daley, the former White House
has warned the Obama campaign team they’d betwho worked for George W Bush during the last recount battle,
says Republicans will “have enough lawyers to handle all situations”
in Florida. Republicans raise the spectre of voter fraud,
with felons and foreigners illicitly swinging the election in favour
of Democrats and Barack Obama. Democrats say the real problem
is voter suppression, pointing to neo-Jim Crow restrictions
imposed by Republicans. All this takes place against the backdrop
of Florida’s swelling Latino population—in pursuing “illegal”
voters, Republicans risk alienating a crucial constituency.
In 2000, 12,000 Floridians were wrongly disenfranchised. The
private company hired to “clean up” the state’s electoral rolls,
striking off people who were dead or felons or otherwise ineligible,
made a mess of the job. Not that the candidate’s brother Governor
Jeb Bush or Secretary of State Katherine Harris seemed
overly concerned. The database was so slipshod that Floridians
with the same birthdate as criminals incarcerated in another
state were turned away from polling places. One Johnny Jackson,
Jr, an upstanding Florida citizen by all accounts, got confused
with one John Fitzgerald Jackson, who was serving time in
a Texas prison. Violating the space-time continuum, several hundred
people were listed as convicted of felonies some years in the
future. Harris, at the time both Florida’s chief elections officer
and co-chair of George W Bush’s Florida presidential campaign,
was not only nonchalant about these “false positives,” she let it
be known that she wanted more names to purge, not fewer. While
African Americans made up 11 per cent of Florida’s electorate,
according to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University,
they comprised nearly half of those removed from the voter
lists. Since African Americans favoured Gore over Bush by 85 to
15 per cent, it’s a safe bet that if even a quarter of the disenfranchised
had voted, the election would have had a different result.
As it was, the United States Supreme Court declared Bush the
winner in Florida by a total of 537 votes.
These days, Katherine Harris is a private citizen, and Jeb
Bush is rumoured to be plotting a political future beyond 2012
when his surname may be a bit less toxic. Yet Florida is at it
again. Charlie Crist, the moderate Republican (recently turned
independent) who replaced Jeb Bush as governor in 2007, had
relaxed Florida’s restrictions on voting by former felons, arguing
that when they had paid their debt to society they should regain
the rights of citizens. When hardliner Rick Scott took office in
2011, he overturned Crist’s more liberal policy—clearly too many
of the wrong sort had been allowed to cast ballots in 2008, giving
Florida to Barack Obama by 200,000 votes.
Scott and the Republican-controlled legislature pushed
through new laws making it difficult for non-profit non-partisan
groups such as the League of Women Voters and the Boy
Scouts to sign people up to vote. Completed registration forms
had to be presented at the county election supervisor’s office not
one minute more than 48 hours from when they were signed, on
pain of prosecution. In Okaloosa County, Florida, the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People tried to register
new voters during January’s Martin Luther King Day weekend,
only to be threatened with a thousand dollars in fines and
a possible third-degree felony—they failed to deliver their forms
within 48 hours because the county offices were closed on Monday
in observance of the federal holiday. The NAACP was soon
contacted by the state elections chief: “We appreciate you going
out and registering voters,” the letter read. “However, if you’re
late anymore we’re going to turn this over to the Florida Department
of Justice for prosecution.”
As soon as the law was implemented in May, new voter registration
plummeted. While Florida’s population went up in
the past four years, the number of people signing up for a voter
card, without which they cannot cast a ballot, has gone down by
81,000. Several advocacy groups sued. An exasperated-sounding
federal judge overturned much of the law, saying, “If the goal is
to discourage voter registration drives and thus also to make it
harder for new voters to register, this may work. Otherwise there
is little reason for such a requirement.”
Unfortunately, the part of the law the judge didn’t throw
out allows the state to restrict early voting. Formerly,
citizens could cast a vote at the county courthouse
up to two weeks before the day of the election. This
period has now been reduced to eight days. Florida’s Republican
masters claim it’s a money-saving measure and anyway, there
are still eight early voting days. Democrats, however, charge that
Republicans want to depress turn-out by their voters, especially
students, the elderly, hourly-wage workers who can’t afford to
be off work for three or more hours standing in an election-day
queue, and African Americans. In 2008, 54 per cent of early voters
were black. The Sunday before election day when churches
mobilise “Souls to the Polls” efforts was especially popular. This
year, voting is also not allowed on the Sunday before election day.
Ion Sancho, who is the elections supervisor of Leon County, Florida,
predicts that, on election day, voters will have to wait several
hours and that precinct workers will be overwhelmed, saying he
fears Florida’s polling locations won’t be able to accommodate
the 8m voters projected to turn out in the general election.
Republicans have not been sympathetic. Mike Bennett, state
senator, argued that in Africa “the people in the desert literally
walk two- and three-hundred miles so they can have the opportunity
to do what we do, and we want to make it more convenient?”
However blatant these attempts to discourage the Democratic
vote, watchdog groups say that they’re small beer compared to
Republicans’ renewed attempts to purge the voter rolls. Last
year, Rick Scott, the governor of Florida, ordered his secretary
of state to scour the rolls for ineligible voters. He says he merely
wants to make sure that everyone who casts a ballot is a genuine
citizen of the US and not some border-jumping Mexican or smuggled
Salvadoran, a dead person or perhaps a cartoon character
(one “Mickey Mouse” did once attempt to register in Orlando,
but failed). A preliminary cull of 182,000 names was dispatched
to the state’s 67 county elections supervisors for verification. It
did not take long before they noticed that the list was curiously
light on white people and Republicans and heavy on African
Americans, Latinos, and those registered as either independents
or Democrats. Nevertheless, the supervisors did their jobs and
while they failed to scare up any members of the Choir Invisible
or denizens of Disney World, they did uncover a preponderance
of dodgy characters such as: Maureen Russo and Manoly Castro-
Williamson, two middle-aged ladies born in the exotic land
of Ohio; some second world war veterans including a 91-year-old
fellow named Bill Internicola who won the Bronze Star at the
Battle of the Bulge; and a great many recently naturalised citizens
eagerly looking forward to casting their first vote as Americans
and rather taken aback to be ordered either to produce their
papers or face jail time.
The problem with voter fraud (as practised by individual voters,
at least) is that it barely exists. The Brennan Center hasanalysed instances of “voter fraud” over the last four election
cycles and concludes that instances of it are rarer than being
struck by lightning or attacked by a shark. In an attempt to disprove
such studies, the Republican National Lawyers Association
prepared its own finding, a whopping 311 cases of alleged
voter fraud in the US over the past 15 years. Many of those cases
were thrown out of court, others involved mistakes (registering
twice, failing to report a change of address), a very few were
actually prosecuted. An investigation by the Tampa Bay Times,
Florida’s largest newspaper, revealed that of the state’s 11menrolled voters, 86 non-citizens have been unmasked and 46 of
those may have voted illegally at some point over the past couple
of decades. No prosecutions have been brought. Not exactly
an orgy of criminal behaviour at the ballot box. The Brennan
Center concludes: “The voter fraud phantom drives policy that
disenfranchises actual legitimate voters without a corresponding
actual benefit.”
Nevertheless, Republicans remain convinced that the only
way Democrats can win elections is by getting illegal aliens to
vote. One Wisconsin state senator recently praised his state’s
stringent new ID standards saying, “we believe the people who
cheat are more likely to vote against us.” Many Republicans still
believe Barack Obama won Florida in 2008 by “cheating” with
the help of groups such as the now-defunct Association of Community
Organisations for Reform Now (ACOR N), which focused
on registering the poor and members of ethnic minorities—and,
according to bitter Republicans, illegal immigrant voters. Never
mind the total lack of evidence; never mind that illegal immigrants
usually prefer to keep a low profile and try to avoid doing
things that would get them deported or sent to jail.
Legal immigrants, however, are another matter, and, in Florida
especially, a legitimate source of Republican worry. The
Democrats can count on the African-American vote, the women’s
vote and a substantial amount of votes from Jews and pensioners.
The Republicans know they’ll get most of the vote from
white people (or, as Romney’s advisor would have it, “Anglo Saxons”),
the affluent, anti-government Tea Party types and Christian
evangelicals. Latino voters will decide who wins Florida.
In 2000, Cubans made up the largest group by far of Latinos
in Florida. In 2012 there are almost as many Puerto Ricans (who
are American citizens) as Cubans. The “I-4 Corridor” (so-called
for the motorway which runs across the middle of Florida) has
seen its population increase by nearly half a million in the last
decade, of which 250,000 are Puerto Rican. Most of them lean
Democratic.
It used to be that Democrats would barely bother trying to get
Cuban votes: Cubans were militantly Republican, revering Ronald
Reagan for standing up to Fidel Castro. But lately Democrats
are making progress: in 2008, Barack Obama won 47 per cent of
the Cuban-American vote in Florida. He got more than 60 per
cent of the Puerto Rican vote. Recent polls indicate that Latinos
in Florida—and nationally—favour Obama by about two to one.
Republicans claim that’s only because Obama has pandered to them, appointing Sonia Sotomayor, a Puerto-Rican American,
to the Supreme Court and declaring that he would not deport
those who were brought to the US illegally as children. Though
Republicans point to some of their prominent Cuban-American
politicians, Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Senator
Marco Rubio to name two from Florida, the party has done
itself no favours with its refusal to help with the passage of the
DRE AM Act, which would allow young undocumented people
to join the US military or go to university as legal residents. Nor
have Republican-run states such as Alabama and Arizona, with
their unabashedly xenophobic new immigration laws, helped.
Arizona’s notorious sheriff Joe Arpaio, who described Mexicans
as “dirty” and who spent taxpayer money sending his “posse” to
Hawaii to “prove” that Barack Obama’s birth certificate was a
“fraud,” is currently on trial for detaining Latinos—or people he
thinks look sort of like Latinos—without probable cause. Even if,
despite the fond dreams of Democrats, the home state of Senator
John McCain will not be in play during this election, the publicity
surrounding Arpaio, the “your papers, please” legislation, and
the ban on teaching the history of Latinos in Arizona schools, has
helped drive Latinos firmly into the arms of Democrats.
This is frustrating to Republicans who realise their party cannot
survive if it remains an angry old white men’s club. After all,
the US is projected to become a “majority minority” nation by
2060, by which time Latinos will form the single largest ethnic
group. Jeb Bush, recast by default as a “moderate” (he’s also a
fluent Spanish speaker married to a Mexican American), suggested
that Mitt Romney needs to ditch the Tea Party rhetoric:
“Don’t just talk about Hispanics and say immediately we must
have controlled borders. It’s kind of insulting.”
The general election is just two months away and what happens
in Florida may depend on what happens in the courts. Voting
rights groups are suing over access to the polls before election
day; the governor is urging supervisors of elections to keep purging
their lists, though federal law forbids that within 90 days of
an election. Because of Florida’s Old South segregationist past—
its unconstitutional disenfranchisement of former slaves in 1877,
its implementation of poll taxes and literacy tests, its long, hateful
history of denying people of colour the vote—the Department
of Justice, under the Voting Rights Act of 1965, will have the final
say over the way in which Florida votes. No matter what happens,
just about everybody believes that the election will come down to
whoever gets their voters out—and which votes get counted[/QUOTE]
__________________

[buttslinger]

Let's ask Pa House Republican leader Mike Turzai to explain it to us. In simple language.


Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[martin48]

I thought only about third of Americans have a passport. Is that true? So, what you use for ID - driver's license?

[Prospero]

The tide is turning.....

Backlash swells Against Voter Laws
Sep 13, 2012 6:05 PM EDT
The left has attacked voter ID laws and other restrictive legislation as a tool to suppress the votes of minorities and poor people. Suddenly, it seems they’re winning.
Another symbol of just how quickly the political calculus can change ahead of Election Day: crucial swing states Ohio and Florida, along with Texas, South Carolina, and Wisconsin, have won significant—albeit possibly temporary—victories against restrictive voting laws over a span of mere weeks. Voting laws, including the requirement that people carry photo IDs to the ballot box, have became a major source of controversy as the presidential race remains close less than two months ahead of the election.


“The tide has clearly turned,” says Diana Kasdan, counsel for the Democracy Program of Brennan Center, a public policy institute affiliated with New York University. “The results are coming in, court after court is rejecting these restrictive laws.”

The next crucial decision will come out of Pennsylvania. The state’s law requiring all voters to show identification is currently being debated by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court; a decision is forthcoming.

Since the Republican takeover of the House in 2010, voting laws restricting access to the ballot began passing in states across the country. But until two months ago, they had received little national attention. Now, a federal judge has blocked Ohio’s “right church, wrong poll” law that discounts provisional votes cast in the wrong precinct. In Florida, residents incorrectly removed from voter polls for being noncitizens have had their voting rights restored. And a federal court rejected Texas’s voter ID law on Aug. 30. Series about voting rights, such as MSNBC’s “Block the Vote” continuing segment, are now being aired during primetime TV news.

Behind the turnaround is a network of civil rights and advocacy groups, along with branches of the federal government, that have been battling these laws as they crop up. In Ohio, the Obama campaign, the Democratic National Committee, and the Ohio Democratic Party sued Republican Ohio Secretary of State John Husted alleging that the restriction on early voting violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

Litigation by the Advancement Project, a national civil rights organization, spearheaded another Ohio suit that challenged the state law that provisional votes mistakenly cast in the wrong precinct could be discounted. The American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania has led the charge against that state’s voter ID law.

The Brennan Center has advocated for voting rights from Wisconsin to South Carolina.

The Department of Justice itself, along with other advocacy and civil rights groups, challenged Florida’s so-called “voter purge,” which removed thousands of eligible voters from the rolls in an attempt to crack down on noncitizens voting. The program was reversed on Wednesday.

Voting experts say that beyond the legal attacks from outside groups, the biggest enemy of struck-down voter laws may be the laws themselves.

“These courts smelled a rat,” says Dan Tokaji, a professor of election law at Ohio State University’s Moritz School of Law. “State legislatures overplayed their hand and got greedy. It was transparent that the real reason for these changes was to make it difficult for some people to vote.”

Civil-rights groups like the Advancement Project have claimed that restrictive laws on voting disproportionately affect minority and low-income voters who don’t have access to photo IDs or typically vote via church drives that take place during early voting periods.

Rick Hasen, a professor of law and political science at UC Irvine and the author of The Voting Wars says “some of these laws are an overreach without good reasons for their enactment—and sometimes run afoul of federal, constitutional or statutory law.”

“These courts smelled a rat.”
“The public got fed up with these laws,” says Kasdan of the Brennan Center.

Voting-rights experts are quick to point out that these victories, while important, are tenuous.

Hasen says some of the rulings may be “ephemeral,” adding that he expects Texas’s voter ID ruling and Ohio’s early voting decision to be overturned, possibly disenfranchising thousands of Americans, before election day.

Kasdan says the Brennan Center will ensure there are plenty of people “on the ground to make sure people know what the law is in their state due to the patchwork of laws across the country. Still, she says, “the game’s not over.”

[Faldur]

I thought only about third of Americans have a passport. Is that true? So, what you use for ID - driver's license?

I'm one of those without a passport. Valid drivers license will work for just about anything. Some agencies/companies require 2 pieces of ID, social security card or birth certificate will work for them.

[buttslinger]

About 11 percent of U.S. citizens, or roughly 21 million citizens, don't have government-issued photo ID. This figure doesn't represent all voters likely to vote, just those eligible to vote.
People who vote have already jumped through one hoop when they registered to vote. Republicans want 80 year old ladies who don't drive and have been voting at the same place for 50 years to jump through one more hoop to prove they're not one of the tens of people that commit voter fraud.
Right.

[trish]

Requiring a driver's license to vote is both a poll tax (in my state it costs about ninety bucks to renew a drver's license) and also a voter test (since you have to pass the driver's test). Eleven percent of eligible voters don't have a driver's license. A photo ID will only prevent in-person fraud which essentially doesn't happen. Why suppress a million votes to capture nine tenth of a person attempting in-person fraud? Answer: according to majority republican whip in the State of Pennsylvania, Mike Turzai, it's to secure the State for Romney. There is no argument here. The cat's out of the bag. Turzai has told what photo-iD is all about...voter suppression.

[onmyknees]

and this

[trish]

Not a paradox. Making sure everyone has health coverage and making sure everyone can exercise their right to vote are not in conflict. Turzai has already told us what he designed voter-ID law to do: he designed it to suppress the democratic vote and secure his State for Romney. Deny it. You can't.

[buttslinger]

Only a complete fool would try to put a spin on the issues of health care for every American citizen and the right to vote for every American citizen.

It's a funnier spin that in their efforts to raid the Community Chest, Republicans have to kow-tow to the Rush Limbaugh morons to try and get elected.

They can't win with Onmyknees, and they can't win without him.


REGISTER AND VOTE!!!!!

[NYBURBS]

Requiring a driver's license to vote is both a poll tax (in my state it costs about ninety bucks to renew a drver's license) and also a voter test (since you have to pass the driver's test). Eleven percent of eligible voters don't have a driver's license. A photo ID will only prevent in-person fraud which essentially doesn't happen. Why suppress a million votes to capture nine tenth of a person attempting in-person fraud? Answer: according to majority republican whip in the State of Pennsylvania, Mike Turzai, it's to secure the State for Romney. There is no argument here. The cat's out of the bag. Turzai has told what photo-iD is all about...voter suppression.

Well, they are requiring certain photo ID, not necessarily a driver's license, so your argument about a voter test is really a non-starter. However, like I mentioned earlier, I do think it could be considered a poll tax unless they give them out for free.

[onmyknees]

I really have to laugh at all these people who are beside themselves about someone simply proving who they say they are as it relates to voting. The libs have been buying off large chunks of the electorate for decades and suddenly they're interested in the purity of the elections, and to protect their deviousness, they'll stop at nothing. If you listen to them, you'd think the water cannons and German Shepard dogs will be in place at every polling place in America when it will simply be a little old lady asking to see your voter ID card. Here's a party that for generations has taken taxpayer dollars through the thug leadership of the public sector unions (against many of the members will) and given enormous amounts of those taxpayer dollars to liberal politicians in the way of campaign contributions. Follow the bouncing ball....The elected liberal democrats in a quid pro quo then turn around and "negotiate" with the very same thugs who lined their pockets and guess who wins? So emboldened by the generous new contracts, they line the pockets of even more politicians and the downward spiral continues until we reach a point where we are now.....where nearly every major city is operating in the red with public sector pensions and benefit package obligations are at an unsustainable level even to the point of bankrupting cities....even to the point of cutting programs to the poor....who these liberal politicians say they're trying to help ! And this insidious cancerous scheme is perfectly legal....so forgive me if I'm not all broke the fuck up about someone producing an ID at a voting booth..

[Faldur]

Well, they are requiring certain photo ID, not necessarily a driver's license, so your argument about a voter test is really a non-starter. However, like I mentioned earlier, I do think it could be considered a poll tax unless they give them out for free.

Lets just make sure we also include the label welfare and food stamp tax right along with poll. You can't get either of those without valid id.

[buttslinger]

I really have to laugh at all these people who are beside themselves ..blah blah blah....so forgive me if I'm not all broke the fuck up about someone producing an ID at a voting booth..

When Mitt loses this year, I'm betting Karl Rove and his buddies are going to sit down and figure out how to put a muzzle on Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Sane people don't like Akin, Christine O'Donnel and Sarah Palin. They've made the Republican Party into a JOKE.
Sit in your little pity pool of prejudice, Knees, watch the real world go on without you.
Every Day the Republican Party is becoming YESTERDAY's NEWS.




America is about people, not ID cards.
REGISTER AND VOTE!!!!

[buttslinger]

Lets just make sure we also include the label welfare and food stamp tax right along with poll. You can't get either of those without valid id.

I blame the poor people for everything!!!!

[Prospero]

A near miss for the lunatic fringe in Kansas.....


Manhattan man drops challenge to Obama on state ballot
OPEKA — A Kansas man said Friday that he's dropping his objection to President Barack Obama being listed on the state's November ballot, a day after top officials delayed a decision on his challenge and said they wanted to gather additional information.

Joe Montgomery, a 51-year-old Manhattan, Kanas resident, told the Kansas secretary of state's office in an email that he and those around him faced "animosity and intimidation" over his objection to Obama's candidacy for re-election. Montgomery argues that Obama is not eligible to serve as president and questions whether Obama has a valid birth certificate.

The notion that Obama was born anywhere other than in Hawaii has long been discredited, and the White House released his long-form birth certificate last year. Hawaii officials also have repeatedly confirmed his citizenship. His mother was a Kansas native.

The State Objections Board reviewed Montgomery's objection Thursday to the president's candidacy but postponed a decision so the secretary of state's office could obtain documents authenticating a copy of Obama's birth certificate from Hawaii that's available online. Secretary of State Kris Kobach serves as the board's chairman.

"There has been a great deal of animosity and intimidation directed not only at me, but at people around me, Montgomery wrote in his email, adding that he doesn't want to burden personal and professional associates with "more of this negative reaction."

Montgomery's plans to drop his challenge were first reported by the Manhattan Mercury. The Objections Board would be the final word on whether Obama appears on the ballot as the Democratic Party's nominee, absent a court challenge. Kobach and its other members, Attorney General Derek Schmidt and Lt. Gov. Jeff Colyer, are all Republicans, and Montgomery is a registered Republican, according the secretary of state's office.

Kobach said the board still will meet Monday to formally close the case and add whatever additional information is available to the record.

"There's no possibility of Obama's name coming off the ballot when there's no objection," Kobach said.

Montgomery not only questions the validity of Obama's birth certificate but also argues that he wouldn't be eligible to serve as president anyway because his father was from Kenya. That's another argument circulating on the Internet and among members of the so-called "birther" movement.

He did not immediately return a telephone message or email seeking further comment Friday.

Montgomery declined Thursday to disclose his employer, saying he'd filed the objection as a private citizen. But Kansas State University confirmed Friday that he works as the communications coordinator for its College of Veterinary Medicine, a position financed privately through its nonprofit, fundraising arm, the Kansas State University Foundation.

Jeff Morris, the university's vice president for communications and marketing, said that Montgomery is acting as a private citizen, and the university respects his free speech rights.

"We have people on campus with lots of different political views," he said.

Kobach and the other board members faced criticism for delaying a decision to reject Montgomery's objection. Kansas Democrats labeled it frivolous, and an attorney for Obama's campaign said in a letter that the allegations were "tired" and "utterly baseless."

But Kobach — who once suggested during his successful 2010 campaign that Obama would quell doubts about his status by releasing his long-form birth certificate — said Kansas law requires the board to hear all objections.

Background before the fool saw the error of his ways - i.e. acting as a lightning rod for the ridicule ridicule which this would bring on the Republican party.


Going Birther: Kansas Secretary of State Considering Barring Obama from Ballot
Posted on September 13, 2012 by Glenn Church


The birthers just won’t go away. No matter how convincing the facts and the complete lack of any evidence that Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii, birtherism has reared its ugly head again. This time the place is Kansas.

Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who coincidentally backs Mitt Romney, met with Attorney General Derek Schmidt and Lt. Gov. Jeff Colyer as part of the State Objections Board to determine if there is enough evidence to keep Obama on the Kansas ballot.

They deferred a decision until Monday because the Obama campaign would not play games with them by sending a representative.

Clearly, these three gentlemen have never Googled. If they had, they would have seen that officials from the state of Hawaii, including Republican officials, verified that Obama’s birth certificate is there and valid. They might have also seen the short and long forms that the Obama campaign has released. Despite some birthers who claim these documents are forged, Hawaiian officials have never disputed that the birth certificates are anything but valid.

Perhaps these elected officials of Kansas are just upset that the birther convention once planned for this month in Arizona was canceled for a lack of interest. This must be their way to express their frustration from taking a vacation in the Arizona sun.

That Kansas officials are questioning Obama’s right to be a candidate for president is ironic because both Obama’s mother and maternal grandparents are natives of Kansas. That should answer the question by itself.

Did I mention that these three Kansas officials are all Republicans? Normally, I try to avoid party designations as foolishness crosses ideology, but in this case it is highly relevant.

The State Objections Board is waiting for a response from Hawaii or for the Obama campaign to appear. All the Obama campaign did was send a letter stating that there was no merit to the charge that Obama was ineligible to be on the ballot.

All this stems from a Kansas resident who filed a complaint that Obama is not a natural-born citizen, as the Topeka Capital-Journal reports:

Joe Montgomery, who filed the ballot challenge with the all-Republican panel, said the president’s father held British and Kenyan citizenship, making Obama ineligible to run for the nation’s highest office.

Montgomery pointed to a handful of U.S. Supreme Court cases to support his claim a presidential candidate must be a “natural born citizen” from two American citizens.

“As for Mr. Obama’s citizenship, there are many doubts,” he said. “Doing the right thing can be hard and unpopular.”

Montgomery also argued that the birth certificate Obama released to the public has been forged. That is an argument that has made its way to those who either don’t want to or are unable to look at simple facts.

The long-form birth certificate that Obama released was scanned. Over-the-counter scanning equipment makes layers on all documents. Yet these birthers believe that the Obama campaign, which would have been able to miraculously perpetuate a 50-year fraud of his birth, would then make a third-rate document pieced together like a grade school photoshopping job.

In addition, Montgomery’s claim that someone can only hold the office of the presidency or vice-presidency if both parents are American citizens grossly distorts history and American law.

Dual citizenship or citizenship of a parent from another country does not prevent someone from being president. Many former presidents have held dual citizenships or the right to acquire them, including Ulysses Grant, Franklin Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, William Taft, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford and Lyndon Johnson who were eligible for French citizenship.

Obama has never made an effort to claim British or Kenyan citizenship so the dual citizenship argument is just as baseless as it was for the above-mentioned presidents.

Others have had a parent born in another country. These include Chester Arthur (Ireland), Dwight Eisenhower (Germany), Thomas Jefferson (England), James Buchanan (Ireland), Woodrow Wilson (England) and Herbert Hoover (Canada). Arthur may even have been born in Canada.

Birthers like to argue that most of the parents in question with these presidents acquired their US citizenship by the time of the president’s birth. That would not be the case with Obama, birthers like to argue, since his father never was an American citizen.

The problem with this argument is that when Spiro Agnew became vice-president no one questioned if he was a natural-born citizen. As vice-president, he must have the same eligibility as the president. There is contradictory evidence if Agnew’s father was a naturalized citizen at the time of his birth.

The fact is that no one seriously questioned Agnew’s qualifications to be president, or even Arthur’s and the other presidents. That is because once someone is born in the United States, that person is a citizen. The only distinction American law makes in different classes of citizenship is that a president must be born in the United States, not naturalized.

Contrary to the assertion that the Supreme Court has offered guidelines on what a natural-born citizen is, their rulings have been ambiguous. One reason is that the Founders never left a clear definition on what that is. The other reason is that the Supreme Court does not want to further fracture the rights of citizenship than it already stands between those born and naturalized. In a republic, citizens are supposed to be equal. The Orwellian-birther view that some citizens are more equal than others just doesn’t cut it.

This entire issue is bogus. The three Kansas officials should be ashamed that they are using their offices for pure political trickery. They are simply boxing themselves into a corner because the state of Hawaii is not going to arrive quickly to their aid. Arizona’s Secretary of State ran around in circles for weeks while trying to have Hawaii provide evidence that Obama had a valid birth certificate. Kobach and his birther friends don’t have that much time.

If Kobach does bar Obama from the ballot, a state he has very little chance of winning anyway, it will generate a constitutional crisis that will only enhance Obama’s chances of victory.

It will be fun to watch them wiggle out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

[trish]

Well, they are requiring certain photo ID, not necessarily a driver's license, so your argument about a voter test is really a non-starter. However, like I mentioned earlier, I do think it could be considered a poll tax unless they give them out for free.Not intended as a complete argument but a counter those many very dense posters who keep suggesting that there's no problem 'cause everyone has a driver's license. To that end my argument is more than a starter, it finishes the objection.

Strange that no matter how many times one mentions Turzai's confession, no one has anything to say about it.

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[Prospero]

bump

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[onmyknees]

A total of 70 ACORN employees in 12 states have been convicted of voter registration fraud. ( those are organized crime type numbers) As documented in a July 2009 report by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, of the 1.3 million registrations Project Vote/ACORN submitted in the 2008 election cycle, more than one-third were invalid.But there's nothing to see here folks...move along now.

[buttslinger]

Fear the Boogeyman!! There's one behind every tree! And they're all pro-Obama!!!


REGISTER and VOTE!!!

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~

[Prospero]

bump

[yodajazz]

A total of 70 ACORN employees in 12 states have been convicted of voter registration fraud. ( those are organized crime type numbers) As documented in a July 2009 report by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, of the 1.3 million registrations Project Vote/ACORN submitted in the 2008 election cycle, more than one-third were invalid.But there's nothing to see here folks...move along now.

You know the answer to this, but pretend you don't. ACORN employees were paid by the number of people they registered. So a few wise guys, made up names, to pad their paychecks. But for those made up names to vote, they would have to have documentation that they were the actual person. This includes such things as ID's and current utility bills with the voters name on them, as well as other related items. Without those items it would be very difficult, for a phony voter to get through those controls. So the truth is, that although there were phony registrations, for those to be able to vote. ACORN officials themsleves were the ones that turned in their employees.

Now compare that with Ohio in 2004, when votes were tabulated on entirely electronic machines, owned by a person who raised funds for the Republican party, and the state's chief elections officer was also Bush's state campaign chairman, (just like in FLA, in 2000). People in heavily Democratic districts, had to wait in lines strecthing over blocks long, while mnay Republican districts had almost no lines at all. And it turned out that voting machines had been taken out of polling places, in disregard to the number of recommended numbers, in relation to total registered voters of each polling place. Also, a recount was impossible because more that half of the counties destroyed their results evidence before the period required by state law.

[Prospero]

Interesting Yoda. Thanks.

[SFTB]

Everyone please vote!

[trish]

Indeed vote, even though the new GOP biased laws may make it difficult for you to do. Vote, but to do so you will need to make sure that when you show up at the polls you have all of the ID's and certifications required by your particular State (be aware that new requirements may have been imposed on your State by the GOP). Please have your ID's in order and vote for the candidates of your choice.

[Prospero]

yep vote you Americans.... interesting choice...

[Prospero]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-apologizes-to-nations-150-million-starving,29603/

[SFTB]

Voting is very important!

[Prospero]

what does SFTB stand for?

[trish]

Indeed vote, even though the new republican biased laws may make it difficult for you to do. Vote, but to do so you will need to make sure that when you show up at the polls you have all of the ID's and certifications required by your particular State (be aware that new requirements may have been imposed on your State by the GOP). Please have your ID's in order and vote for the candidates of your choice.

[SFTB]

VOTE, come November, it should be a PRIORITY

[buttslinger]

Republican writers spend all day thinking up ways to hide what's obvious.

[SFTB]

Please everyone, don't rest, vote!

Obama: I will not rest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhYSgPZ41WU)

[thombergeron]

This is how you twist a tax paying citizen who doesn't feel they should have to pay for a 31 year old law students recreational birth control into "you want women to die in the streets because they couldn't get an abortion".

You twisted that right there. At no time did Sandra Fluke state that tax payers should fund her recreational birth control. That never happened. Fluke testified regarding her belief that Georgetown University's student insurance carrier, United Healthcare, should cover medically necessary contraceptives for females.

See, that's a lot less outrageous than what you and Rush said. If you're going to accuse someone else of lying, it hurts your case to lie yourself.



Lets just make sure we also include the label welfare and food stamp tax right along with poll. You can't get either of those without valid id.

Several commenters in this thread have made this assertion, but it is false. The Social Security Administration does not require photo ID: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ss5doc/ss5doctext.htm


ID requirements for welfare programs vary by state, but most states do not require photo ID for public assistance. The federal food stamp program (SNAP) does not require photo ID: (PDF warning) http://www.usich.gov/resources/uploads/asset_library/myths-homeless.pdf

[onmyknees]

33 states and counting....can ya hear me PA ? :dancing:

[trish]

Indeed vote, even though the new republican biased laws may make it difficult for you to do. Vote, but to do so you will need to make sure that when you show up at the polls you have all of the ID's and certifications required by your particular State (be aware that new requirements may have been imposed on your State by the GOP). Please have your ID's in order and vote for the candidates of your choice.
bump

[onmyknees]

bump


How amusing you libs are. Everything you don't agree with is.......

1. bias
2. racist
3. nativist

This is the level of hysterical absurdity we've reached. Grab a PBJ sandwich and a 32 ounce sugary drink and have a read.




http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/16/1132388/-Oregon-school-principal-Peanut-Butter-sandwiches-RACIST

[Dino Velvet]

pothole

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Large_pot_hole_on_2nd_Avenue_in_New_York_City.JPG/220px-Large_pot_hole_on_2nd_Avenue_in_New_York_City.JPGh ttp://www.mayors.org/74thWinterMeeting/photos/villaraigosa_012506.JPG

[Cuchulain]

Pa Supremes punt on voter ID

'In a 4-2 decision Tuesday the Pennsylvania Supreme Court vacated a lower court's decision to uphold Pennsylvania's strict new voter ID law, asking that it review whether the new law will disenfranchise voters.'
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/09/philadelphia--former-pennsylvania-governor-ed-rendell.html

'
Simply put, the majority of the state Supreme Court held that the state of Pennsylvania has not followed the law -- not the part of it, anyway, that requires the state Department of Transportation to provide voters with a valid ID. In Pennsylvania, people who don't drive can go to a DOT driver's exam station and, for a fee, obtain an identification card, called a 1510(b) card. Until now, those cards have cost money, and required much the same kind of identification as a driver's license -- e.g., a birth certificate.
But under the voter ID law, a potential voter who lacks a photo ID can sign a sworn statement that he or she "does not possess proof of identification . . . and requires proof of identification for voting purposes." At that point, a 1510(b) card is to be issued free of charge. The problem is that the DOT has been refusing to adopt the new, looser requirements specified in the Voter ID law, arguing that the 1510(b) card can be used for security purposes like boarding an airplane. For that reason the DOT has continued to require documents such as a birth certificate, despite what the law says.
Given that it is late September, that would, one would think, be enough to justify an injunction against imposing the ID requirement on the November election. But four Justices of the six-member court decided instead to remand the case to the Commonwealth Court, which had upheld it on August 15, to take another look at whether it can implemented before November 5. The majority concedes that the population that may encounter difficulty voting in the fall "includes members of the most vulnerable members of our society (the elderly, disabled members of our community, and the financially disadvantaged)." This puzzling ruling reminds me of a word I learned years ago from an Italian politician: ponziopilatismo (http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/ponziopilatismo_%28Lingua-Italiana%29/), the Pontius Pilate maneuver, washing one's hands and looking the other way.
The Commonwealth Court is directed to decide the case again by October 2.'
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/09/meet-the-pontius-pilate-of-voting-rights-pennsylvanias-supreme-court/262559/

[Prospero]

OMK has slipped and slithered down to banality. You can do better than that OMK - if you try you could even offer some cogent and argued response to the torrent of real criticism of your man and his party.

[trish]

Indeed vote, even though the new republican biased laws may make it difficult for you to do. Vote, but to do so you will need to make sure that when you show up at the polls you have all of the ID's and certifications required by your particular State (be aware that new requirements may have been imposed on your State by the GOP). Please have your ID's in order and vote for the candidates of your choice.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[Faldur]

Taken from the Planned Parenthood home page:

Do I have to bring in a photo ID?
If you wish to see if you qualify for free services under the Family Planning Expansion Project, you will need to bring in both proof of citizenship and a photo ID. A passport can satisfy both requirements, but more commonly clients bring in a driver's license and birth certificate. We also will need your Social Security number, although we do not need to see the card.

Damned Republicans are everywhere.....

[Prospero]

Indeed there may well be Republicans everywhere. No problem with that. Providing the "damned Republicans" don't play jiggery-pokery with the electoral rights of ordinary Americans (which they're doing) in another attempt to steal an election its fine. But what they are up to at present is a corruption of your political process.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[SFTB]

I hope everyone had a wonderful "Talk like a pirate Day" yesterday. I see some did. Please remember to vote, maybe one day we will have a "Balance the budget day"

[buttslinger]

You can't silence them, but you can turn them off. And nothing will turn off the morons more than another four for Barry.

REGISTER AND VOTE!!!

[trish]

You need two forms of ID to register to vote, one federal and one with a signature and proof of residence. You then sign your name in the appropriate precinct book of registered citizens. Penalties for fraud are stiff; so don't register if you're not a citizen or don't live in that precinct...there's no money in it...little to gain and a lot to lose.

In prior years if you went to the polls, showed your registration card, signed the book beneath your prior signature, the poll workers would compare the signatures and if they matched they gave you a ballot. This year, in many States, you will have to present specially requested forms of ID. The IDs you used to register will not be sufficient. In other words you have to prove you are eligible to vote twice and with different forms of certification each time.

Please make sure you have the necessary papers in order well before the election. Don't be disenfranchised by these new disingenuous tactics to suppress your right to vote.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[thombergeron]

Taken from the Planned Parenthood home page:

Do I have to bring in a photo ID?
If you wish to see if you qualify for free services under the Family Planning Expansion Project, you will need to bring in both proof of citizenship and a photo ID. A passport can satisfy both requirements, but more commonly clients bring in a driver's license and birth certificate. We also will need your Social Security number, although we do not need to see the card.

Damned Republicans are everywhere.....



Specifically, taken from the home page of Planned Parenthood of Southwestern Oregon (http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppsworegon/frequently-asked-questions-29179.htm) and referring to the Oregonian Family Planning Expansion Project. As was pointed out earlier, public assistance programs are largely administered at the state level in the U.S. We have 50 of those, so as you might expect, there is some variation between states.

For instance, California’s Medi-Cal program, which provides free and low-cost family planning services at Panned Parenthood through its Family PACT program, does not require photo ID.

What's more, you neglected to cut-and-paste the paragraph that follows the one you quoted:


Please note: the photo ID requirement applies only if you are seeking to qualify for free services. If you have private insurance or are paying out of pocket, no photo ID is needed.

If, indeed, it’s not possible to make your point without lies and prevarication, you might consider that your point is unsound.

[trish]

You need two forms of ID to register to vote, one federal and one with a signature and proof of residence. You then sign your name in the appropriate precinct book of registered citizens. Penalties for fraud are stiff; so don't register if you're not a citizen or don't live in that precinct...there's no money in it...little to gain and a lot to lose.

In prior years if you went to the polls, showed your registration card, signed the book beneath your prior signature, the poll workers would compare the signatures and if they matched they gave you a ballot. This year, in many States, you will have to present specially requested forms of ID. The IDs you used to register will not be sufficient. In other words you have to prove you are eligible to vote twice and with different forms of certification each time.

Not all voters need give proof of their identification on two independent occasions; absentee voter fraud is not addressed by the new laws. Supporters of the new voter ID laws in Pennsylvania are unable to present a single case of in-person voter fraud...not a one. Yet their law will disenfranchise 700 000 voters! Republican majority leader Mike Turzai of Pennsylvania admitted the law was designed to suppress the democratic vote and secure the State for Romney.

Please make sure you have the necessary papers in order well before the election. Don't be disenfranchised by these new disingenuous tactics to suppress your right to vote.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[onmyknees]

Did You Know...........


In Indiana which has one of the most strict voter ID laws in the country, Barack Obama won that state in the 2008 election and black turnout actually went up. Of course, the fact that black turnout went up had a lot to do with him being on the ballot....so by lib logic, if the black vote in Indiana is less this year than previous elections, it has to be racist, it has to be supression....it can't possibly have anything to do with apathy after the hope and change came and went.

[Prospero]

Pathetic as usual OMK. The vote in all places may well drop - in some cases engineered by your favourites and their corrupt attempt to steal the election in new ways, in others because even staunch old school Republicans can't stomach what your party was degraded into and in some cases because of disappointment with what Obama has been unable to achieve (thnks in some pat to GOP intransigence and bloodymindedness.).

[trish]

The Indiana Voter ID Law was passed in 2005, well before the 2008 election. Nevertheless it was contested in the courts. By 2008 the plaintiffs were unable to produce any witnesses who were unable to produce the required identification (a State photo ID or U.S. photo ID). The defendants were unable to produce any cases of in-person voter fraud or evidence that would necessitate the new law. The District Court of Appeals found in favor of the law.

In spite of the obvious attempt to suppress the democratic vote (after all there was and remains no evidence that in-person voter fraud is a problem), African-Americans turned out in record numbers and Obama won (as incredible as it seems) Indiana by a sliver (1% of the vote).

Yes, they might invent tactics to suppress our voice at the polls, but we can overcome. Nice reminder OMK. WE CAN OVERCOME. FIND OUT THE LAW IN YOUR STATE__REGISTER__GET YOUR IDs __AND VOTE.

[Dino Velvet]

Amen:Bowdown:

http://eyeofvigilance.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/new-black-panthers-08jpg1.jpg

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=506915&stc=1&d=1348236093

[buttslinger]

On Rock Center last night, Bill O'Reilly said he has to walk around with bodyguards. Why? You Decide!!

[trish]

On Rock Center last night, Bill O'Reilly said he has to walk around with bodyguards. Why? You Decide!!
'cause no one else will walk with him?
(thanks for the amen Dino)

[buttslinger]

You Asked for It-You Got It!!!


Ron Reagan Jr mentioned last night on TV that the Republicans may have started something they will regret - A nationwide voter registration drive that lasts four years.
A woman was on who has voted since she was 19, she had to take a day off work, get jerked around for four hours to get her free ID, but now she is street legal. Early voting has started in Ohio. It's On!!!

we're getting to the good part.

[Dino Velvet]

'cause no one else will walk with him?
(thanks for the amen Dino)

You bet. Thanks for reminding me too. I'm forgetful as fuck. Can I get a Hallelujah!!!!!

[trish]

Hallelujah!!!!!

[Dino Velvet]

I'll give you a bump for that. You're a nice lady.

[trish]

You need two forms of ID to register to vote, one federal and one with a signature and proof of residence. Penalties for fraud are stiff; so don't register if you're not a citizen or don't live in that precinct...there's no money in it...little to gain and a lot to lose. That's why the rate of in-person voter fraud is lower than 0.2 cases per State per decade.

In prior years (at least in my State) when you went to the polls to vote, you showed your registration card, and signed your name. Your signature was then compared to the one on the registration form. If they matched you were given a ballot.

This year, in many States, when you go to the polls to vote you will have to present specially requested forms of ID. The IDs you used to register will not be sufficient. In other words, unlike those voting absentee, you will have to once again prove you are eligible to vote but this time but with different forms of certification. This year voters are being ask to prove their eligibility twice using different forms of certification each time. If we have to prove our eligibility at the polls, then what is the point of registration? What is the point of the double filter when there is no in-person voter fraud to speak occurring. In Pennsylvania the supporters of the law were unable to present even one case of in-person voter fraud. Not one case. Zero. Nada. Meanwhile, because of the nearness of the law's passage to the election in early November, it is estimated that 700 000 Pennsylvanians may be disenfranchised by the law. Republican majority leader Mike Turzai of Pennsylvania admitted the law was designed to suppress the democratic vote and secure the State for Romney.

Please make sure you have the necessary papers in order well before the election. Don't be disenfranchised by these new disingenuous tactics to suppress your right to vote.

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8)

[Prospero]

b u m p

[BluegrassCat]

Sarah Silverman sums it up nicely.

Sarah Silverman | Let My People Vote 2012 - Get Nana A Gun - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw)


Also, I would do her. That is all.

[Willie Escalade]

That's fucking excellent!

[trish]

Great clip...thanks BluegrassCat...and thanks Sarah Silverman.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?smid=pl-share



Sarah Silverman | Let My People Vote 2012 - Get Nana A Gun - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw)

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/op...?smid=pl-share (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?smid=pl-share)

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)

Sarah Silverman | Let My People Vote 2012 - Get Nana A Gun - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw)

[trish]

Usually, I just respond to other people's threads, but there's something important that needs addressed.

If you live in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Lousiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Dakota or Tennessee and want to vote this year, make sure you have current valid photo ID, as it is now required in these states. Make sure your friends and family have ID as well.

This is especially critical if you live in one of these states that could go either way in this year's election. (Let's face it, we already know how Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee will be voting)

Also, if you live in Florida, make sure you are still registered to vote. They've been purging people from the rolls for political reasons.

Pass it along.

(Yes, this should probably go in the politics forum, but who actually goes there?)~bump~