Adult Issue: Gay club closing its doors to transgenders

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

This was posted on Myspace groups and it reads:

As some of you may have heard, the Lodge is closing it's doors and going out of business.
Effective April 29, the Lodge will no longer be catering to the TG community.
The landlord has opted not to renew the lease of the land where the Lodge stands. Property values have skyrocketed and the land is worth much more than the Lodge can handle.

At this time, there is no new alternative location for Saturday nights. The people at GirlTalk are having a very difficult time acquiring a new place.

The Lodge will officially be closing it's doors in June, but has requested that tg's no longer patronize the facility after April. The reason for this is due to many complaints by their gay customers regarding transgender customers inappropriate behavior, inappropriate dressing and prostitution. The Lodge wishes to go back to being a "gay" exclusive bar for the last month, to cater to requests in their community.

This has been an ongoing problem throughout the years with the transgender community. Many bars/clubs do not wish to cater to our community because of the same complaints. I believe the issue here is not about them being intolerant, but our community not presenting ourselves in a positive light.

Fetish has it's place, but should be contained within fetish oriented establishments. It will be hardpressed for society to take transgender issues seriously until the transgender community as a whole takes itself seriously.

There will be a (tentative) meeting with the transgender community at El Torito Restaurant located at 14433 1/2 Ventura Blvd in Van Nuys (just east of Van Nuys Blvd.) on Thursday sometime between 7-8 pm. All who wish to discuss these issues are welcome to attend. Please keep in mind, though this is a trans-friendly place, it is a mainstream restaurant, therefore we request that you dress appropriately.


Thank you for your time,

Keliana
__________________________________________________ ___

I personally think thats BULL! This is whats wrong with our GLBT community. Its the fact that gay men treat transexuals like second rate citizens as if gay men are on top of the food chain and were at the bottom. Its disgusting to know that the very own people who claims to be in your own community have such strong discrimination againts their own (maybe their jealous because most straight men would go for a transexual before they would even swing the gay route?). I recall not to long ago Allanah had experienced the same being denied entry to a famous Manhattan night club. UGH!

Gay men are certainly NOT any better than trangenser folks. I think that just because alot of them find social acceptance easily publicly from heterosexual ve. transexuals made them thick in the head that theyre better than anyone on the GLBT spectrum. Its PATHETIC if you ask me.

~Kisses.

HTG

[FriendlyFriend]

Like all sub cultures, the trans one has to work at being accepted in any community it finds itself in. Just because one tribe seems to be similar to yours does not actually make it so. Why is Iraq close to a civil war? Because the Americans are there? No because the two sides of the Iraqi society are fighting each other. The Americans just removed what was keeping them from doing it before, El Dictator.
I'm not up on the subculture of Gay and Trans in Los Angeles, which is where I'm assuming this is occuring, but I can say that it certainly is not unusual for two tribes that appear to be on the same side to take up arms against each other.
I want your land. It is next to mine. As a matter of fact your daughter looks GREAT too, and I want her, and the little boy and hmmmm she's a little fat, but I'd like your WIFE too. Nice cow, and horse.
I know we fought against the bad people down south side by side last year when they came up to take all our stuff away, but hey we defeated them, and thanks for the help!

[HungDevil]

Why should gay men see transsexuals as friends? As far as they are concerned transsexuals are stealing some of the fire from their case for social acceptance. They have it that transsexuals want to get all the privileges that heterosexual women and men do. Indeed, transsexuals are not directly fighting for gay rights; they are fighting to be recongnized as heterosexual or at least a "third category." Yes, transsexuals are supportive of gay rights; however, for them it is not a direct fight, but just a sentiment for people with sexual differences to be afforded "equal rights."

Saying that gay men are a part of the community is to say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


The above does not represent my personal views. I am simply interpreting the comments of a few gay intellectuals.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Why should gay men see transsexuals as friends? As far as they are concerned transsexuals are stealing some of the fire from their case for social acceptance.

Ask your intellectual gay friends..Why not? And how so? Please elaborate.


They have it that transsexuals want to get all the privileges that heterosexual women and men do.

:roll: Yeah so? Like they (Gay people) dont? Does same sex marriage and equal rights/benefits that heterosexual couples currently enjoy ring a bell??


Indeed, transsexuals are not directly fighting for gay rights; they are fighting to be recongnized as heterosexual or at least a "third category." Yes, transsexuals are supportive of gay rights; however, for them it is not a direct fight, but just a sentiment for people with sexual differences to be afforded "equal rights."

I beg to disagree. Alot of "Issues" of the gay community is somewhat the same as any transgender issues. Again, lets take for example same sex marriage rights. Isnt it obvious that both gay men, lesbians and transexuals are fighting the right to marry someone of the same sex? Regardless if one is a gay man, a lesbian or one of a transitioned variety (M2F or F2M transexual)? And to get the same amount of benefits (health, insurance, the right to be able to adopt and raise a child etc.) as any hetero couple would? That to this day *some have still been denied them!


Saying that gay men are a part of the community is to say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Well no one said gay men and lesbians are enemies of transexuals. But..the way gay men in particular treats transgenders and are discriminatory of TG's is totally a double standard BS IMO. If and when gay people needs to rally they invite transgenders to take part (Gay Pride) but when the shoe is on the other foot they hardly care is what it is.

~Kisses.

HTG

[flabbybody]

don't feel bad HTG. If you think gay men have disdain for transexuals, I would say they hold chasers in an even lower light.

I revealed my preference to tgirls to a few gay acquaintances and their reactions were all the same. I'm just a repressed faggot who can't come to terms with myself. (not saying that aint true, but who wants to hear it from them?)

Considering how they've suffered through the ages, gays can be a very nasty bunch.

[samujack]

This was posted on Myspace groups and it reads:

As some of you may have heard, the Lodge is closing it's doors and going out of business.
Effective April 29, the Lodge will no longer be catering to the TG community.
The landlord has opted not to renew the lease of the land where the Lodge stands. Property values have skyrocketed and the land is worth much more than the Lodge can handle.

At this time, there is no new alternative location for Saturday nights. The people at GirlTalk are having a very difficult time acquiring a new place.

The Lodge will officially be closing it's doors in June, but has requested that tg's no longer patronize the facility after April. The reason for this is due to many complaints by their gay customers regarding transgender customers inappropriate behavior, inappropriate dressing and prostitution. The Lodge wishes to go back to being a "gay" exclusive bar for the last month, to cater to requests in their community.

This has been an ongoing problem throughout the years with the transgender community. Many bars/clubs do not wish to cater to our community because of the same complaints. I believe the issue here is not about them being intolerant, but our community not presenting ourselves in a positive light.

Fetish has it's place, but should be contained within fetish oriented establishments. It will be hardpressed for society to take transgender issues seriously until the transgender community as a whole takes itself seriously.

There will be a (tentative) meeting with the transgender community at El Torito Restaurant located at 14433 1/2 Ventura Blvd in Van Nuys (just east of Van Nuys Blvd.) on Thursday sometime between 7-8 pm. All who wish to discuss these issues are welcome to attend. Please keep in mind, though this is a trans-friendly place, it is a mainstream restaurant, therefore we request that you dress appropriately.


Thank you for your time,

Keliana
__________________________________________________ ___

I personally think thats BULL! This is whats wrong with our GLBT community. Its the fact that gay men treat transexuals like second rate citizens as if gay men are on top of the food chain and were at the bottom. Its disgusting to know that the very own people who claims to be in your own community have such strong discrimination againts their own (maybe their jealous because most straight men would go for a transexual before they would even swing the gay route?). I recall not to long ago Allanah had experienced the same being denied entry to a famous Manhattan night club. UGH!

Gay men are certainly NOT any better than trangenser folks. I think that just because alot of them find social acceptance easily publicly from heterosexual ve. transexuals made them thick in the head that theyre better than anyone on the GLBT spectrum. Its PATHETIC if you ask me.

~Kisses.

HTG


What a contradiction lol.

"The Lodge will officially be closing it's doors in June, but has requested that tg's no longer patronize the facility after April. The reason for this is due to many complaints by their gay customers regarding transgender customers inappropriate behavior, inappropriate dressing and prostitution. The Lodge wishes to go back to being a "gay" exclusive bar for the last month, to cater to requests in their community."

"Craigslist", "Queer as Folk", "Crobar" and many gay bars testify to the same type of RANDY yea I said RANDY behavior that they complain about in the above paragraph what a joke.... Actually it's more PENIS envy on GAY men's part lol envious they aren't getting straight dyck

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Actually it's more PENIS envy on GAY men's part lol envious they aren't getting straight dyck

I totally agree with you samujack. LOL :wink:


don't feel bad HTG. If you think gay men have disdain for transexuals, I would say they hold chasers in an even lower light.

I revealed my preference to tgirls to a few gay acquaintances and their reactions were all the same. I'm just a repressed faggot who can't come to terms with myself. (not saying that aint true, but who wants to hear it from them?)

Considering how they've suffered through the ages, gays can be a very nasty bunch.

Hey flabbybody. Not really sweating it. But I get annoyed when I hear such double standard BS especially coming from gay men. Ive had gay male friends growing up and they all think the same. Like any guy who's into me would be into them as well. Until they were proven otherwise and was all wrong! Then they all start hating and calling the guys closetted. UGH :roll: The worst part was making me their bait when going out. :evil: Hence, Im not particularly psyched being friends with most gay men (Tho I still have a very select few).

~Kisses.

HTG

[BeardedOne]

The worst part was making me their bait when going out.

Ha. I've got a twist on that, and somewhat understand it. My being the preeminant dyke-magnet I usually had no problem getting female 'companions' (As opposed to 'dates') because they would hang out with me to get picked up by other wimmin. :roll:

I can't complain too loudly, as some of the meetings turned into three-counts (Which was most appreciated), but I still had occasion to feel rather used. :?

[GroobySteven]

Come on, take a deep breath step back and look at this situation objectively and have a good think about many TS establishments you've been to.

1/ In-appropriate behavior? Whilst many TG's wish to remain ladylike, many others who are unable to express themselves most of their 9-5 work week go over the top in their "sluttiest" gear. As another poster wrote, there are places for fetish style clubs but a Bill Wyman character dressed in a mini-skirt and very little else is out of place where some of these bars/clubs are. Also TG's are notoriously bad drunks (the worst of men and women!) - loud, obnoxious, catty and fighting. Fact is there is a lot of over the top behavior that probably stops more TG places getting set up.

2/ Prostitution - rife in almost every club I've been in from Diva's, Peanuts, every NY bar, Wayout, etc. Many bars have been closed just because of this - or the other problems that come with prostitutes.

The best TS bars are in out of the way places where girls and guys can get a taxi to and have a good time within their own scene (like the fetish scene). Gay men may have a dislike of the TS scene but the real issue is from within the TS community and people not knowing when you behave ladylike and keep a degree of modesty and decorum when in public places which aren't part of the scene or are a mixed crowd.
seanchai

[flabbybody]

that's an odd point of view coming from you Seanchai.

So it's OK that a gay bar bans tgirls cause some of them can't hanldle their liquor?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Come on, take a deep breath step back and look at this situation objectively and have a good think about many TS establishments you've been to.

1/ In-appropriate behavior? Whilst many TG's wish to remain ladylike, many others who are unable to express themselves most of their 9-5 work week go over the top in their "sluttiest" gear. As another poster wrote, there are places for fetish style clubs but a Bill Wyman character dressed in a mini-skirt and very little else is out of place where some of these bars/clubs are. Also TG's are notoriously bad drunks (the worst of men and women!) - loud, obnoxious, catty and fighting. Fact is there is a lot of over the top behavior that probably stops more TG places getting set up.

2/ Prostitution - rife in almost every club I've been in from Diva's, Peanuts, every NY bar, Wayout, etc. Many bars have been closed just because of this - or the other problems that come with prostitutes.

The best TS bars are in out of the way places where girls and guys can get a taxi to and have a good time within their own scene (like the fetish scene). Gay men may have a dislike of the TS scene but the real issue is from within the TS community and people not knowing when you behave ladylike and keep a degree of modesty and decorum when in public places which aren't part of the scene or are a mixed crowd.
seanchai

LOL. :lol: Hmm..I cannot speak in behalf of the transgender community. But being as someone who's been into different tg clubs and gay clubs. I understand what you mean Seanchai. Youve raised some good points when you said the real issue comes from within the tg community. I seen and witnessed how *most transgenders behave..drunk or not and lacking modesty and decorum. Although gay men are also as loud, obnoxious, catty etc. And surely the part timers/9-5'ers get too excited at the end of the work week and dress way over the top and too slutty..but bad taste in fashion exist in every community. :wink:

The problems they speak of (prostituion, drugs etc.) are also prevalent inside the gay community. Maybe they just have a better grasp of conducting themselves (DL). God knows the village voice is full of gay male escorts as much as TG's. To generalize that all TG's behave like that and discriminate is still wrong IMO. There are gay clubs as much as TG clubs thats been closed for the same reasons. The thing is..there are way more gay clubs than tg clubs. So when a tg club gets closed its noticeable. Not as much as when a gay club gets closed. 8)

~Kisses.

HTG

[FriendlyFriend]

Arguing on the Internet
(point by point disputing someone's post perhaps?)
Is like running in the Special Olympics.

Even if you win you are STILL retarded.

:twisted:

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

LOL. :lol: Thanks for the laugh FriendlyFriend. :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[GroobySteven]

Jamie
This has nothing to do with the post in question so why do you feel the need to post your continuing issues here? Keep them where they belong in their own area, it's pretty sad you can't just comment on the actual issue at question.

Harajuko girly, the reason gays can get away with more is because they'll organise themselves as a group or society, whether political or just to get their own way - it's rare you'd see a TG group managing to get that sort of organisation, especially before 3pm :twisted:
seanchai

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Harajuku girly, the reason gays can get away with more is because they'll organise themselves as a group or society, whether political or just to get their own way - it's rare you'd see a TG group managing to get that sort of organisation, especially before 3pm :twisted:
seanchai

Agreed@theyre more organized. LOL 8)

Jamie..you need to start a political thread to air all these out. Please dont do that on this one. Thanks hun.

So anyways, back to the main topic of this thread. :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[GroobySteven]

that's an odd point of view coming from you Seanchai.

So it's OK that a gay bar bans tgirls cause some of them can't hanldle their liquor?

That's exactly NOT what I said. Re-read and don't jump to conclusions.
Although I feel a gay bar can ban who they want - any bar should be able to choose their clientele and if they want exclusivity then that's their option.
seanchai

[Jasadin]

It's so sad when some groups fall victim to a false sense of pride and/or elitism by advocating the oppression of the minority.I think we are taking a giant step back for humankind if we allow ourselves for one second to segregate and deny all of a group for the actions of a few.It's a total deception to buy in to the sterotype that TG'S are more prown to act up. Common sense would dictate that the amount of tg related incidents(public drunkiness, soliciting for short term ass rental,etc..) are infinitesimal compared to other groups.Yet nobody asks the majority to stop patronizing a place :roll:

[Quinn]

Jamie-Michelle, with all due respect, unless you've been to Iraq – much less fought there – you know fuck all about it or its part in any supposed conspiracy. So, leave it alone already and let everyone enjoy this thread's original intent.

-Quinn

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Thanks to whomever cleaned up this thread. :D

~Kisses.

HTG

[GroobySteven]

It's so sad when some groups fall victim to a false sense of pride and/or elitism by advocating the oppression of the minority.I think we are taking a giant step back for humankind if we allow ourselves for one second to segregate and deny all of a group for the actions of a few.It's a total deception to buy in to the sterotype that TG'S are more prown to act up. Common sense would dictate that the amount of tg related incidents(public drunkiness, soliciting for short term ass rental,etc..) are infinitesimal compared to other groups.Yet nobody asks the majority to stop patronizing a place :roll:

I disagree completely - I've been in bars/clubs the world over and seen more un-necessary problems in TS clubs first hand. Peanuts a night barely goes by without a fight and many more clubs where I've seen trannies either get into catfights or pull some stunt.
Furthermore, name a proper TS/Tranny bar which doesn't have some TS's selling their ass? There aren't many, as much as the operators may try and stop it, if it doesn't go on in the club it's nearby.
seanchai

[Jasadin]

What's next....We don't serve your kind here?No TG'S allowed?One tg getting her rights revoked because of somebody else actions is unacceptable.Lets Just round up all these tg's and put um away.Try substituting another word besides tg.Try using umhmm BLACK!Neatly packaged discrimination!C'mon.

Is this right cause this is the direction we're going :arrow:

[Felicia Katt]

We got winners, we got losers
Chain smokers and boozers
And we got yuppies, we got bikers
We got thristy hitchhikers
And the girls next door dress up like movie stars

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar

We got cowboys, we got truckers
Broken-hearted fools and suckers
And we got hustlers, we got fighters
Early birds and all-nighters
And the veterans talk about their battle scars

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar

[Chorus:]
I love this bar
It's my kind of place
Just walkin' through the front door
Puts a big smile on my face
It ain't too far, come as you are
Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar

I've seen short skirts, we got high-techs
Blue-collar boys and rednecks
And we got lovers, lots of lookers
And I've even seen dancing girls and hookers
And we like to drink our beer from a mason jar

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar
Yes I do

I like my truck (I like my truck)
I like my girlfriend (I like my girlfriend)
I like to take her out to dinner
I like a movie now and then

But I love this bar
It's my kind of place
Just trollin' around the dance floor
Puts a big smile on my face
No cover charge, come as you are
Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar
Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar

We got divorcees and a big bouncer man
An old jukebox and a real bad band
We got waitresses and we got barflies
A dumb-ass and a wise-guy
If you get too drunk just sleep out in your car

Reason number 672 why

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar
Play it on out boys
Beer-thirty's over
Got to take it on home

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar


Bars are bars, and TG bars are no better and no worse.

FK

[GroobySteven]

What's next....We don't serve your kind here?No TG'S allowed?One tg getting her rights revoked because of somebody else actions is unacceptable.Lets Just round up all these tg's and put um away.Try substituting another word besides tg.Try using umhmm BLACK!Neatly packaged discrimination!C'mon.

Is this right cause this is the direction we're going :arrow:

All bars have codes. How many bars did I get turned away from because I didn't have the right face, or the right shirt or because it was couples only ("but what about those 3 guys?"). I'd hope if a bar did discriminate against a type of person than that person wouldn't patronage it. There are plenty of bars where a BLACK person or a WHITE person or an ASIAN person would be made to feel unwanted. They mightened be able to say we're turning you away because of your colour, or your sexual orientation but most places have a disclaimer, "Management reserves the right to refuse service to anybody".

Terakos, which TS bars have you been to? Gianna was on here the other day about being beaten up in a TS club and not knowing how she provoked it. I stand by what I'm stating as somebody who has visited TS clubs the world over - unfortuantely, most of the clubs are spoiled by the actions of a few and by the community being unable to self-regulate.
seanchai

[HungDevil]

Why should gay men see transsexuals as friends? As far as they are concerned transsexuals are stealing some of the fire from their case for social acceptance.

Ask your intellectual gay friends..Why not? And how so? Please elaborate



If I do have gay friends they are all CD's at least. I am not commenting on the opinions of my friends but some gay writers.
I think that some gay men have prejudice against transsexuals. In their view it is natural to be only heterosexual or gay. The sentiment of wanting to change one's gender/sex is puzzling to them. Some even think that being associated with transsexuals would be bad for public relations.


They have it that transsexuals want to get all the privileges that heterosexual women and men do.

:roll: Yeah so? Like they (Gay people) dont? Does same sex marriage and equal rights/benefits that heterosexual couples currently enjoy ring a bell??

Yes...I wrote that sentence as to suggest that some gay men think that some transsexuals want to be recognized as heterosexuals, so that they could be married, etc. This desire on the part of transsexuals is seen as more pressing than the issue of gay marriage.


Indeed, transsexuals are not directly fighting for gay rights; they are fighting to be recongnized as heterosexual or at least a "third category." Yes, transsexuals are supportive of gay rights; however, for them it is not a direct fight, but just a sentiment for people with sexual differences to be afforded "equal rights.

I beg to disagree. Alot of "Issues" of the gay community is somewhat the same as any transgender issues. Again, lets take for example same sex marriage rights. Isnt it obvious that both gay men, lesbians and transexuals are fighting the right to marry someone of the same sex? Regardless if one is a gay man, a lesbian or one of a transitioned variety (M2F or F2M transexual)? And to get the same amount of benefits (health, insurance, the right to be able to adopt and raise a child etc.) as one hetero couple would? That to this day *some have still been denied them!


Good counter-point! In addition, a transsexual could be identified as gay or lesbian.

I am not too sure that some transsexuals would consider their marriages with men to be gay marriages. The State just dictates that two registered males not be able to marry. However, transsexuals marrying men via the gay marriages statutes is necessitated by a technicality (i.e., the law). To me transsexuals are fighting to be allowed to marry, period. To this end they want to change their legal names and whatever birth documentation they have. So, transsexuals need not be fighting for gay marriage as a personal struggle, but as part of a larger stuggle for equal rights for all. In the end, gays and transsexuals want marriage benefits, but the nature of the marriages desired differ.


Oh, the horror of a transsexual seeing the word "the union of groom and groom."



Saying that gay men are a part of the community is to say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Well no one said gay men and lesbians are enemies of transexuals. But..the way gay men in particular treats transgenders and are discriminatory of TG's is totally a double standard BS IMO. If and when gay people needs to rally they invite transgenders to take part (Gay Pride) but when the shoe is on the other foot they hardly care is what it is.



I could understand why gay men would be confused as to why transsexuals insisted on coming to their clubs. The thing is that gays forget that transsexuals may feel safer in a gay club than in a heterosexual one. Unfortunately, there are not too many transsexual clubs. Further, gay men forget that the very attitude they have about transsexuals being a nuisance is held by heterosexists concerning gays. So, gay men are both rejecting and practicing discrimination of the same kind.

One wonders how any transsexual would be able to make money soliciting gay men. It is common knowledge that gay men are not attracted to the female form. I guess the gay men who deny the existence of bisexuals are wrong after all.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

If I do have gay friends they are all CD's at least. I am not commenting on the opinions of my friends but some gay writers.
I think that some gay men have prejudice against transsexuals.

Yes. Its called penis envy! LOL Noone is immune to it. :lol:


In their view it is natural to be only heterosexual or gay.

Then their views "Warped" as the views of the catholic church saying the only genders or "natural order of things" are only males and females. :evil:


The sentiment of wanting to change one's gender/sex is puzzling to them.

As is wanting to "sleep" with the same sex thats mostly viewed by heterosexuals. :evil: LOL. :lol:

Add to the fact that..because gays never even tried to understand fully what "gender dysphoria" truely means.

From the begining of time, Pyschologist and people in general *thought that homosexuality was a disease. Gay people were sent to assylums for segregation and study. (Note: that in the early days wether one was gay or a transexual and dressing up.. youre both just categorized as a mad person who's mentally unstable).


Some even think that being associated with transsexuals would be bad for public relations.

Alot of people thesedays try to act cool and be politically correct in dealing with gays in a civil manner but the truth is behind their backs there are still a large percentage of heterosexuals that says the same thing regarding gays (bad public relation). So Touche! :wink:


Yes...I wrote that sentence as to suggest that some gay men think that some transsexuals want to be recognized as heterosexuals, so that they could be married, etc. This desire on the part of transsexuals is seen as more pressing than the issue of gay marriage.

No exactly ageeing on that line of thought. For its certainly ONE most pressing issue across the board not only within the TG community.


Good counter-point! In addition, a transsexual could be identified as gay or lesbian.

I am not too sure that some transsexuals would consider their marriages with men to be gay marriages. The State just dictates that two registered males not be able to marry.

LOL. Thanks HungDevil. I agree. *some transexuals might not consider it a gay marriage or even want a gay marriage but A male and M2F transexual or female and F2M transexual unions are considered a "gay marriage" simply because the government/state fails recognize any M2F or F2M transexual's assumed genders (regardless how far one *might undergone to transition). Transexuals as awhole are still identified as either male and or female. They always go technical..i.e. the sex and gender one is born into.


However, transsexuals marrying men via the gay marriages statutes is necessitated by a technicality (i.e., the law).

Exactly. Though It would be a nice change if anyone could just have the equal rights to marry whomever they wish without much stigma attached to it.


To me transsexuals are fighting to be allowed to marry, period. To this end they want to change their legal names and whatever birth documentation they have.

Yup. TRUE..true. :wink:


So, transsexuals need not be fighting for gay marriage as a personal struggle, but as part of a larger stuggle for equal rights for all.

I wouldnt call it a personal struggle. Thats why theres a GLBT communty. Gay, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders fighting for equality causes as ONE. Safety in numbers as they say.


In the end, gays and transsexuals want marriage benefits, but the nature of the marriages desired differ.

How is it different? Is a "family unit" and or function of heterosexual couples in a marriage any different than a transexual, gay, lesbians and or bisexuals?

GAYS: Groom and Groom; LESBIANS: Bride and Bride; Male or Female with Transexuals (Either M2f or F2M) :Groom and Bride?? Its purely cosmetic and isnt much relevant. The desire to be in unions legally and start a family, have kids etc. are all but the same if you ask me.


I could understand why gay men would be confused as to why transsexuals insisted on coming to their clubs. The thing is that gays forget that transsexuals may feel safer in a gay club than in a heterosexual one. Unfortunately, there are not too many transsexual clubs. Further, gay men forget that the very attitude they have about transsexuals being a nuisance is held by heterosexists concerning gays. So, gay men are both rejecting and practicing discrimination of the same kind.

Yes! Thankyou for pointing that out. Its silly really. LOL.


One wonders how any transsexual would be able to make money soliciting gay men. It is common knowledge that gay men are not attracted to the female form. I guess the gay men who deny the existence of bisexuals are wrong after all.

Hence, telling transgenders that theyre not welcome in a gay club is Bull! Simply because like youve said, *IF you think long and hard about it..How do you think working Tgirls would do interms of business hanging out at gay clubs? We all know they dont and wont solicit from gay men. And gay men are NOT into transexuals. So it completely makes no sense. LOL. :lol:

Oh and BTW, Good discussion HungDevil. 8)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Ecstatic]

How about just spouse and spouse? Personally I think it's time to dump the gender associations built into bride and groom (which have roots in patriarchy and property). At the end of the ceremony, the solemnizer should simply say, "you may now kiss." Not: "...the bride," which connotes ownership of the one by the other.

Excellent points raised all around. The overriding point is that it's really GLB & T: there has always been a more tacit communality between the Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals than with any of them and the Transsexuals. TS are always included in the grouping when numbers are needed, as Harajuku points out for Gay Pride rallys, but they are otherwise excluded, or at best on the fringe.

On another level, as also excellently presented by seanchai and others, is the bar scene itself and the wider social behaviorism of TGs in such social situations. This I know only by reference, as I don't know the bar scene or similar gatherings at all; other than a couple of Allanah's parties, I haven't been to such a social venue in decades. If what some of you say is true about TG behavior patterns in such locations is true--and so I've heard--then that's an issue which TGs individually and as a group should work to improve. I also wonder about TGs going to gay clubs, if it's not because they want to have a good time and not be on the make, since they know that gay men are not going to be soliciting them (professionally or casually), that such a club should be a place where they can relax and have a good time. But again, I don't know the scene, so I'm just speculating there.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

TS are always included in the grouping when numbers are needed, as Harajuku points out for Gay Pride rallys, but they are otherwise excluded, or at best on the fringe.

I know Ecstatic. Im completely repulsed by this sort of "Elitism" of gay people in the GLBT community! :evil:

~Kisses.

HTG

[ezed]

TS are always included in the grouping when numbers are needed, as Harajuku points out for Gay Pride rallys, but they are otherwise excluded, or at best on the fringe.

I know Ecstatic. Im completely repulsed by this sort of "Elitism" of gay people in the GLBT community! :evil:

~Kisses.

HTG

It's funny how entitlement changes people. With the help of media, gay's have become accepted ... gay shows, metrosexuals, gay marriage. Now they have arrived! (as they say in Hollywood) and they drop their allies. History repeats itself.

It all goes back to the adage put forth in Blazzing Saddles.... "Okay, okay, we'll accept the niggers and the chinks....BUT WE WON'T TOLERATE THE IRISH!!!!"

HTG, T-Girls are on their own now. But! They can follow the blueprint laid out by the gays. First they must bang a bunch of Media moguls the way the gays have. You have to shoot higher than Eddie Murphy. Go for the heads of Sony and Paramount...Asian guys are suckers for transexuals.

Next get TG themed TV shows like for instance...."Wendy and Ace", "TGirl Eye for the Genetic Girl" or maybe "Six Inches in Him". Then your ready for a major motion picture along the theme of "Brokeback Mountain" maybe center it in San Francisco and call it "Knob Hill".

Then run for office in Massachuesetts or S.F..

You see if you study history, when one group gains the upper hand they become uphoric (sp) and stuff it in peoples faces to the point they reconsider what they've done. If at the time there is a viable alternative...ie T-Girls....they replace the stuffers.

You can just hear the banter in the back room of the political power rooms of the heartland (the Red States). "You know Elmer, I told you if you gave the Gay's an inch they'd take a mile." "Yep, Homer, you were right. But what do we do now?" "I say we distance ourselves from the Gay's and align ourselves with the Transexuals" "They are gaining popularity, and I've been getting alot of shit from my constituants about so many pictures of two guy in the wedding announcements in the Sunday paper! At least with T-Girls...no one knows any better." "Yep, Homer, I must tell you, I could see myself stup'in one of those sassy girls myself." Heh, heh, Elmer, I already have and it was bitchin"

The world is a funny place run by funny people, but they keep following the same scripts, as written by their dicks.

T-Girls are up and coming fast, very fast. When you "arrive" learn from the mistakes of your predecessors and don't let history repeat itself. Gays, T-Girls, Bi's, Lesi's have been around for ever and always will be. Gay's are enjoying their 15 minutes of fame, but are gloating over it. Remember the Victorian era. Remember the free love of the 60's and subsequent aura of aids. Thinks turn on a dime. Plan for it and don't let it happen to you.

REMEMBER, DUCK AND COVER! Especially when your on top of the world.

[Vicki Richter]

I will say that the prostitution point is very valid. Not that girls don't need a place to work from, but the bars statement is fair. In Peanuts, the hostess very clearly acknowledges and supports prostitution in her weekly speeches. I am not saying prostitution is morally wrong... but it is illegal and it does cause legal issues. The city has closed Peanuts more than once for months on end for lame code related issues like "noise" when the real issues are girls in the streets blowing guys in cars. Not exactly a neighborhood type of thing that anyone would be thrilled with if it was their neighborhood. T's do tend to dress more provocatively. There are TS who walk around Peanuts in thongs and pasties and they are just the patrons.

I personally don't care for the gay community and I've said that before. I don't see the big deal with hitching ourselves to that wagon. They aren't my kind. We don't face the same issues. Yeah I can hold hands with a guy in public without causing a commotion, but they can go into a job without the Social Security Administration clocking them as what they are. Most of the time, there isn't any love lost between the two communities. However, having never been to a gay bar on "gay night" - Peanuts is clearly a gay bar on some nights - I don't know how that community behaves. However, as I know there are several gay bars in the vicinity of Peanuts, I know they don't draw man whores into the streets.

Again, I don't begrudge the girls doing that. I mean you already have the guys who love you in a highly dense area, so your sales margins are going to increase obviously. It's intelligent marketing. However, it confuses me when girls who advertise in Eros and must make enough to earn a living off of that, also come to a club to work.

In summary the club has a right to do what they are doing, but after being open to TS for years, it is kind of shitty for them to go out like that for the final couple months. I went to the Lodge once and found it to be a dirty run down old crappy 70's looking dump. It was dubbed the new Queen Mary, but it wasn't even close. QM had some character... this place reminded me of some crappy old people corner bar where the locals go to get wasted so they don't have to drive so far. The Lodge was really a crappy place that I never really got. Peanuts even tried to do a Saturday night thing and still they went to the Lodge. When I asked Prue why... she said, "something different". Good riddance. TS shouldn't be forced into hole in the wall underground shit-holes like that. It gives the community a bad name and a bad vibe I think. Any girls who go to nice normal clubs know exactly what I am talking about.

V

[GroobySteven]

I miss the Queen Mary - it was always fun, always something to look at, you could wander outside for a chat, not all the girls were fabulous but many were and often more at ease here than other places.
I agree with your point that the TG community shouldn't need to hitch onto the gay bandwagon.
seanchai

[MELIKEYBONECAS]

However, it confuses me when girls who advertise in Eros and must make enough to earn a living off of that, also come to a club to work.


COULD'NT AGREE MORE MS. Vicki Richter ! EGO, GREED MAYBE :?:
GET TIRED OF THE FACT THAT MAJORITY OF GIRLS THAT ARE AT
PEANUTS ARE WORKING ! LOVE TO GO OUT TO CLUBS & MEET
COOL T-GIRLS , BUT MOST AT PEANUTS ARE WORKING !
DIFFICULT TO MEET T-GIRLS AT PEANUTS WHO JUST GO TO
HAVE A GOOD TIME & CONNEC, LIKE AT STRAIGHT OR MIXED
CLUBS !
SUCH IS LIFE!
MELIKEY BONECAS :wink:

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

It's funny how entitlement changes people. With the help of media, gay's have become accepted ... gay shows, metrosexuals, gay marriage. Now they have arrived! (as they say in Hollywood) and they drop their allies. History repeats itself.


You see if you study history, when one group gains the upper hand they become uphoric (sp) and stuff it in peoples faces to the point they reconsider what they've done. If at the time there is a viable alternative...ie T-Girls....they replace the stuffers.

The world is a funny place run by funny people, but they keep following the same scripts, as written by their dicks.

Great INPUT ezed. I couldnt agree with you more. 8)

~Kisses.

HTG

[ezed]

Great INPUT ezed. I couldnt agree with you more. 8)

~Kisses.

HTG[/quote]

I love when you type me kisses, I can only imagine. :wink: :wink:

Ezed

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I love when you type me kisses, I can only imagine. :wink: :wink:

Ezed

Hehe.. :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[Dengoza]

I would love more places in LA that you could go and just meet and talk to tgirls, and not the pressure of the working girls at peanuts. And looking good is one thing but dressing up so slutty is kind of a turn off, I mean its a turn on but its not very acceptable so it can make a guy feel a bit uncomfortable, even though I cant say I dont like it... Well I hope some other places turn up, open up or somthing. Please post, if anyone knows places to go.

dengoza

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

So I guess "Peanuts" not a very good place then to go and meet transexuals in LA? Are there tranny bars and clubs with no working tgirls? Anyone?!?

~Kisses.

HTG

[Dengoza]

Peanuts is a good place to meet girls in LA for sure. But I was just saying that the working girls can be very agressive and just looking for profit share and market gain. It would be nice to go somewhere and maybe not have that kinda vibe...

dengoza

[ezed]

Peanuts is a good place to meet girls in LA for sure. But I was just saying that the working girls can be very agressive and just looking for profit share and market gain. It would be nice to go somewhere and maybe not have that kinda vibe...

dengoza

There are only so many places shemales can go and feel comfortable. It is up to you, young Skywalker. Use the force! ie your personality. If they mean to work, they will work (and you may cop a few free nice sensations). But with the "FORCE" of your charm, you may cause them to let down their guard, and engage in a palavar. There is nothing to say a working girl can't decide to take a night off and persue something of interest ie your engaging conversation. It's up to you, young Luke! If your intentions are true, it will happen. If you're looking only to get off for free and an LTR is not really your intention, then I suggest you lower your expectations and wait till the lights flash and it's time to drink up.

Working girls are working because they need money. Can you offer them security? Would you? Then ask yourself, I was them, and I met me, what would I do?