John Wayne vs Clint Eastwood

[Dino Velvet]

I have tried and tried to get into and enjoy John Wayne films. I respect the fact that people are huge fans of his. I'd love to jump on that bandwagon but have never been able to. I think he was more a man of his times.

It's easy for me to get into Eastwood's Western characters. Such greyness in his parts in that he'll save the day(sort of) but commit several unsavory acts in the process. Not only a fan of the Leone trilogy but also like High Plains Drifter, The Outlaw Josey Wales, Pale Rider, and Unforgiven.

I'm also a big fan of Lee Van Cleef, Charles Bronson, Franco Nero, and Tomas Milian. All 3 Sergios(Leone, Corbucci, Sollima) are good directors too.

http://whysoblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5c2c3fb027284bce733966524defe42f-e1314479550141-1024x768.jpg

[GroobySteven]

No comparison, Clint Eastwood.

http://www.noggs.co.za/wp-content/uploads/ocmx-gallery/large/200710_clinitb.jpg

[youngblood61]

Clint will always be the man.:Bowdown::Bowdown:

[Dino Velvet]

No comparison, Clint Eastwood.

We're around the same age but born in different countries. Did you try to "get into" John Wayne movies too? My father was a fan of not only John Wayne but Gene Autry too.

[GroobySteven]

We're around the same age but born in different countries. Did you try to "get into" John Wayne movies too? My father was a fan of not only John Wayne but Gene Autry too.

It was more of a case of just REALLY getting into The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on first viewing. John Wayne was always just too one dimensional (apart from The Searchers) and overall too clean. It was always just John Wayne being John Wayne.

[MdR Dave]

No comparison, Clint Eastwood.

http://www.noggs.co.za/wp-content/uploads/ocmx-gallery/large/200710_clinitb.jpg

That's right.

[Dino Velvet]

It was more of a case of just REALLY getting into The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on first viewing. John Wayne was always just too one dimensional (apart from The Searchers) and overall too clean. It was always just John Wayne being John Wayne.

I was having a laugh(with Stavros, I believe) about this the other day. Robert Mitchum has some interesting things to say about The Duke too.

The Conqueror Recut Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq1K0Y-I6vg)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000053/bio


Robert Mitchum Quotes

The only difference between me and my fellow actors is that I've spent more time in jail.
I gave up being serious about making pictures around the time I made a film with Greer Garson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002093/) and she took a hundred and twenty-five takes to say no.
I started out to be a sex fiend but couldn't pass the physical.
Movies bore me; especially my own.
I've still got the same attitude I had when I started. I haven't changed anything but my underwear.
[on his acting talents] Listen. I got three expressions: looking left, looking right and looking straight ahead.
People think I have an interesting walk. Hell, I'm just trying to hold my gut in.
[on press stories] They're all true - booze, brawls, broads, all true. Make up some more if you want to.
When I drop dead and they rush to the drawer, there's going to be nothing in it but a note saying 'later'.
I never take any notice of reviews - unless a critic has thought up some new way of describing me. That old one about my lizard eyes and anteater nose and the way I sleep my way through pictures is so hackneyed now.
Years ago, I saved up a million dollars from acting, a lot of money in those days, and I spent it all on a horse farm in Tucson. Now when I go down there, I look at that place and I realize my whole acting career adds up to a million dollars worth of horse shit.
I have two acting styles: with and without a horse.
Every two or three years, I knock off for a while. That way I'm always the new girl in the whorehouse.
I never changed anything, except my socks and my underwear. And I never did anything to glorify myself or improve my lot. I took what came and did the best I could with it.
[asked what jail was like, after being released on a marijuana possession charge] It's like Palm Springs without the riff-raff.
You've got to realize that a Steve McQueen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000537/) performance lends itself to monotony.
Not that I'm a complete whore, understand. There are movies I won't do for any amount. I turned down Patton (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066206/) (1970) and I turned down Dirty Harry (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/) (1971). Movies that piss on the world. If I've got five bucks in my pocket, I don't need to make money that f***ing way, daddy.
John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/) had four-inch lifts in his shoes. He had the overheads on his boat accommodated to fit him. He had a special roof put in his station wagon. The son of a bitch, they probably buried him in his goddamn lifts.
There just isn't any pleasing some people. The trick is to stop trying.
[his opinion about the Vietnam war, in 1968] If they won't listen to reason over there, just kill 'em. Nuke 'em all.
Sure I was glad to see John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/) win the Oscar ... I'm always glad to see the fat lady win the Cadillac on TV, too.
I've survived because I work cheap and don't take up too much time.
You know what the average Robert Mitchum fan is? He's full of warts and dandruff and he's probably got a hernia too, but he sees me up there on the screen and he thinks if that bum can make it, I can be president.
I kept the same suit for six years - and the same dialog. We just changed the title of the picture and the leading lady.
I came back from the war and ugly heroes were in.
Young actors love me. They think if that big slob can make it, there's a chance for us.
[asked why, in his mid-60s, he took on the arduous task of an 18-hour mini-series, "The Winds of War" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085112/) (1983)] It promised a year of free lunches.
How do I keep fit? I lay down a lot.
[Regarding three-time co-star Deborah Kerr (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000039/)] The best, my favorite . . . Life would be kind if I could live it with Deborah around.
[his opinion of Method actors Robert De Niro (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000134/), Al Pacino (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000199/) and Jack Nicholson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000197/)] They are all small.
[1983] Stars today are just masturbation images.
[on The Good Guys and the Bad Guys (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064379/) (1969)] How the hell did I get into this picture anyway? I kept reading in the papers that I was going to do it, but when they sent me the script I just tossed it on the heap with the rest of them. But somehow, one Monday morning, here I was. How the hell do these things happen to a man?
Just after we shot Secret Ceremony (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063571/) (1968), lesbianism came in ... I'm no damned good as a lesbian.
People make too much of acting. You are not helping anyone like being a doctor or even a musician. In the final analysis, you have exalted no one but yourself.
These kids only want to talk about acting method and motivation; in my day all we talked about was screwing and overtime.
I know production values are better, but are the scripts, are the pictures? The thing is, it's a hell of a lot more work, and I don't see overall where the films are any better, really?
I often regret my good reviews, because there is no point in doing something I know to be inferior and then I find I have come off the best in the film. Wouldn't you find that worrying?
[1948] I never will believe there is such a thing as a great actor.
I got a great life out of the movies. I've been all over the world and met the most fantastic people. I don't really deserve all I've gotten. It's a privileged life, and I know it.
Sometimes, I think I ought to go back and do at least one thing really well. But again, indolence will probably cause me to hesitate about finding a place to start. Part of that indolence perhaps is due to shyness because I'm a natural hermit. I've been in constant motion of escape all my life. I never really found the right corner to hide in.
Up there on the screen you're thirty feet wide, your eyeball is six feet high, but it doesn't mean that you really amount to anything or have anything important to say.
[1967] Where are the real artists? Today it's four-barreled carburetors and that's it.
[1968] The Rin Tin Tin (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0863833/) method is good enough for me. That dog never worried about motivation or concepts and all that junk.
I only read the reviews of my films if they're amusing. Six books have been written about me but I've only met two of the authors. They get my name and birthplace wrong in the first paragraph. From there it's all downhill.
[on working with Faye Dunaway (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001159/)] When I got here I walked in thinking I was a star and then I found I was supposed to do everything the way she says. Listen, I'm not going to take any temperamental whims from anyone, I just take a long walk and cool off. If I didn't do that, I know I'd wind up dumping her on her derrière.
[on Sarah Miles (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0587234/)] She's a monster. If you think she's not strong, you'd better pay attention.
[asked what he looks for in a script before accepting a job] Days off.
[on Steve McQueen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000537/)] He sure don't bring much brains to the party, that kid.
[on Jane Russell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000066/)] Miss Russell was a very strong character. Very good-humored when she wasn't being cranky.
They think I don't know my lines. That's not true. I'm just too drunk to say 'em.
They could never decide to their satisfaction what type I was. One would say, "He's a heart-broken Byronic." Another would say, " No, he ain't; he's an all-American boy." People began talking about Mitchum-type roles, but I still don't know what they mean. They'd paint eyes on my eyelids, man, and I'd walk through it.
RKO made the same film with me for ten years. They were so alike I wore the same suit in six of them and the same Burberry trench coat. They made a male Jane Russell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000066/) out of me. I was the staff hero. They got so they wanted me to take some of my clothes off in the pictures. I objected to this, so I put on some weight and looked like a Bulgarian wrestler when I took my shirt off. Only two pictures in that time made any sense whatever. I complained and they told me frankly that they had a certain amount of baloney to sell and I was the boy to do it.
I worked three pictures for 28 days straight. We'd shoot all night at RKO [The Locket (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038700/) (1946)], then I'd report to Undercurrent (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039066/) (1946) from seven in the morning until noon, when I'd be flown to Monterey to work all afternoon with Greer Garson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002093/) [Desire Me (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039312/) (1947)].

[maxpower]

John Wayne was a Fag - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uv_WGEHr4I)

[Erika1487]

The Duke //www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrqlP6hzofE&sns

[Ecstatic]

Love this comment: "Sure I was glad to see John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/) win the Oscar ... I'm always glad to see the fat lady win the Cadillac on TV, too."

My preference runs to Eastwood, who had more range than Wayne, especially in his later years. But Eastwood really shines as a director, and has done some of his best work in the past 10-20 years.

[Erika1487]

The Duke //www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrqlP6hzofE&sns
Don't get me wrong I like Clint Eastwood, but too me John Wayne represents the 'conservative ideal man' that for most of my life I tried too live up too.

[Prospero]

Generally Clint is a better actor and his films - particularly the later ones - suit modern sensibilities better. He is also a terrific director. But Wayne did do some crackers, especially later in his career. Forget clunkers like The Sands of Iwo Jima though - except for a good laugh.

[buttslinger]

I'm not voting.
I went to see an old buddy perform a play once, Short Eyes, and the whole cast went to the bar down the street afterwards What a Bunch of Drunks!!!! Jeez!

There are some great interviews out there with Clint, Bob, and Jane, I got the idea Clint's movies were more businesslike, but old Hollywood was a dive into the deep end. Lots of stories. I've seen The Searchers a couple of times lately. Epic. Can't vote.

[Stavros]

I think a big difference is that Clint Eastwood's career took off after his appearances on TV in Rawhide, and that he has proven himself versatile as actor and director -whereas Wayne matured in the studio system and was therefore typecast/contracted as the true Cowboy/Military/Leadership figure in those sorts of films, and when he stepped out of these roles, playing Genghiz Khan, Irishmen with romantic ideas, etc, he was so obviously out of his comfort zone.

On the other hand, you think of John Ford, and immediately think of Wayne, and Ford, for all his controversies, is easily one of the greatest American film-makers of the 20th century, and as Seanchai has indicated, The Searchers remains a deeply problematic but superbly visualised film.

An interesting comparison, gven the assumptions made about his politics, is what would have Cartmel been like if Wayne, rather than Clint, had been the Mayor...?

But is Clint Eastwood a liberal? Is it possible to tell from the films?

[irvin66]

Definitely Clint Eastwood...


"I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?" :Bowdown:

[Falrune]

I went with John Wayne. He represented what was good about good guys during a different time.

[Absarokah]

Hands down, Clint

[GrimFusion]

I think Clint Eastwood is a better actor than John Wayne, but Wayne deserves a lot of respect for appearing in 172 different movies.

[GroobySteven]

John Wayne.avi - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AejZxaYkekM)

How bad is this?

[GroobySteven]

Or this
Pink Cadillac 1989 Clint Eastwood Movie TV Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5jldfoCN3Q)

[Jericho]

Or this
[/URL]


I'd rather sit thru either of those than...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iECZmJPiYdM"]John Wayne Green Berets ending scene - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5jldfoCN3Q)

[Merkurie]

Clint Eastwood is a better actor and he was trying to be a more developed actor than John Wayne as well.

Wayne created an archetype of an American Hero for the 20th century. He knew it was an act but it is one he took seriously, heck his characters had more integrity than the real man ever did. He was a man of his time (maybe a bit behind it) but his movies stand for something, the type of people we wished that we were.

Clint Eastwood, is 25 years younger and from a totally different American generation and aspired to make far more down to earth movies. His characters are distant, cynical and opportunistic.

[DCGuy343]

Clint!!!

The Good

The Bad

and

The Ugly!!!

[lifeisfiction]

Clint Eastwood for me in the Good, Bad and Ugly series protrayed the cowboy. For it was the west, heroes were never afriad of getting dirty or unsavory, while villians had charm and grace. Actors like Yul Brynner, Robert Vaughn, Eli Wallach Terence Hill, and others represented what the west was. Their characters complex, but human. John Wayne was caricature of a cowboy, a type of person that never felt more than a cliche.

If you think about real Cowboys like Doc Holiday or Jessie James, they were in fact similar to Clint Eastwood and far from John Wayne.

Then again some has to be attritubed to the roles that were given at the time and John Wayne worked with American directors, while the Italian directors and studios had better plots and casting (like Clint Eastwood).

If outside the realm of westerns, Just look at whoses movies sells more and is remembered. Clinton Eastwood career while more recent, still created more iconic roles. It was at the time where hollywood would allow directors and actors to develop more of themselves.

John Wayne was coming out of the era where the League of Defamation ruled and cookie cutter movies were pushed [check out Gilligan's Island belly button on screen rule]. I think if he was given the opportunity to play a more modern actor he would have faired better, but not more than Clinton Eastwood.

(Did I really just write all of that?)

[Quiet Reflections]

Clint

[flabbybody]

Harry Callahan was the American version of James Bond. He killed bad guys without reading them their rights and we all loved him for it. (even us liberals from New York) An iconic character for the ages.

[Dino Velvet]

Clint Eastwood for me in the Good, Bad and Ugly series protrayed the cowboy. For it was the west, heroes were never afriad of getting dirty or unsavory, while villians had charm and grace. Actors like Yul Brynner, Robert Vaughn, Eli Wallach Terence Hill, and others represented what the west was. Their characters complex, but human. John Wayne was caricature of a cowboy, a type of person that never felt more than a cliche.

If you think about real Cowboys like Doc Holiday or Jessie James, they were in fact similar to Clint Eastwood and far from John Wayne.

Then again some has to be attritubed to the roles that were given at the time and John Wayne worked with American directors, while the Italian directors and studios had better plots and casting (like Clint Eastwood).

If outside the realm of westerns, Just look at whoses movies sells more and is remembered. Clinton Eastwood career while more recent, still created more iconic roles. It was at the time where hollywood would allow directors and actors to develop more of themselves.

John Wayne was coming out of the era where the League of Defamation ruled and cookie cutter movies were pushed [check out Gilligan's Island belly button on screen rule]. I think if he was given the opportunity to play a more modern actor he would have faired better, but not more than Clinton Eastwood.

(Did I really just write all of that?)

Great post.


Harry Callahan was the American version of James Bond. He killed bad guys without reading them their rights and we all loved him for it. (even us liberals from New York) An iconic character for the ages.

You must love Paul Kersey.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CaKirC_70F0/TYjrzPqjY7I/AAAAAAAAAC4/z7Q1iGz-r_4/s250/Paul+Kersey+finger+gun.jpg

[flabbybody]

nah. Kersey was a punk... no badge

[Dino Velvet]

nah. Kersey was a punk... no badge

Don't you dare! He didn't need no stinking badge! He had a Wildey Automag .44!

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt221/My_Farts_Cause_Global_Warming/heropaul.jpg

[flabbybody]

LOL. but seriously that movie made NYPD look like clowns so I never liked it

[Dino Velvet]

LOL. but seriously that movie made NYPD look like clowns so I never liked it

Kersey clowned LAPD in Death Wish 2 while my father worked for them.

Death Wish 2 Official Trailer #1 - Charles Bronson Movie (1982) HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSzjvQSqQMo)

[robertlouis]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned The Shootist, John Wayne's final and arguably finest performance in a terrific western.

To some extent it's apples and oranges. They came from different generations with different histories and values. The Duke wouldn't have understood existentialism if you'd hit him repeatedly around the head with it; Clint brought it to the screen as soon as he took up the mantle of directing with the wonderfully ambiguous heroes of films like High Plains Drifter, The Outlaw Josey Wales etc.

John Wayne is an American icon in the way Clint probably never will be, the essential difference being that Eastwood never set out to be one, whereas it was arguably Wayne's primary motivator. Wayne will remain as the craggy-jawed ideal of a certain type of American hero, but sadly, all too often a simplistic and one-dimensional one. There's much more to Eastwood both as actor and especially as director. His legacy to American and world cinema is infinitely richer and more diverse than Wayne's.

[Token Williams-Black]

Clint. That is all.

I did like McQ though...

[robertlouis]

You must love Paul Kersey.



The Death Wish films were trash, and morally dubious trash at that. Bronson had real screen presence on occasion, but Michael Winner just served up the same tiresome meretricious rubbish until the public got tired of it.

[Dino Velvet]

The Death Wish films were trash, and morally dubious trash at that. Bronson had real screen presence on occasion, but Michael Winner just served up the same tiresome meretricious rubbish until the public got tired of it.

Sorry you didn't enjoy them. I even liked #5.

Death Wish 5: The Face of Death (1994) Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRAoil4JNlg)

[robertlouis]

Sorry you didn't enjoy them. I even liked #5.



No problem, pal. I think we accept that our tastes in movies and music are miles apart.

FWIW, by the way, I think that Letters from Iwo Jima, the story of that battle told from the Japanese point of view, is a courageous and stunningly original film. Sadly under-rated, and infinitely superior to his re-telling of the US side.

[Dino Velvet]

No problem, pal. I think we accept that our tastes in movies and music are miles apart.

FWIW, by the way, I think that Letters from Iwo Jima, the story of that battle told from the Japanese point of view, is a courageous and stunningly original film. Sadly under-rated, and infinitely superior to his re-telling of the US side.

Do you like earlier Bronson films like The Mechanic and Mr Majestyk? Most everyone likes The Magnificent Seven, The Dirty Dozen, and Once Upon The Time In The West.

Avoid this box set but I own it proudly.
Amazon.com: Charles Bronson Collection: (Kinjite / Messenger of Death / Murphy's Law / 10 to Midnight): Charles Bronson, Lisa Eilbacher, Andrew Stevens, Juan Fernández, Trish Van Devere, Gene Davis, Geoffrey Lewis, Wilford Brimley, Robert F. Lyons, Bert Williams, Iva Lane, Ola Ray, Richard Romanus, J. Lee Thompson, Gail Morgan Hickman, Harold Nebenzal, Paul Jarrico, Rex Burns, William Roberts: Movies & TV@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HdfwmFXOL.@@AMEPARAM@@51HdfwmFXOL (http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Bronson-Collection-Messenger-Midnight/dp/B00007EFII/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1340755550&sr=1-2&keywords=kinjite)

[robertlouis]

Do you like earlier Bronson films like The Mechanic and Mr Majestyk? Most everyone likes The Magnificent Seven, The Dirty Dozen, and Once Upon The Time In The West.



I liked him in the final three that you named, like most folks, also thought he was good in The Great Escape.

The best Bronson movie was the one he wasn't in ;). Bronson, based on the life of the violent British life prisoner who changed his name to Charles Bronson. Tom Hardy is incredible in the title role.

[Dino Velvet]

I liked him in the final three that you named, like most folks, also thought he was good in The Great Escape.

The best Bronson movie was the one he wasn't in ;). Bronson, based on the life of the violent British life prisoner who changed his name to Charles Bronson. Tom Hardy is incredible in the title role.

That's good too along with Chopper. Director Nicolas Winding Refn also made Pusher and Valhalla.

[southern81]

i say Wayne
b/c i grew up watching his movies more than i did clints. b4 you think im 50 or so im 31 yrs old. every time i watch a john wayne movie i reminds me of watching it with my dad or my grandfather. now that being said its imposible to compare the two John Wayne 20's and 40's movie yrs while clint was from the 60's and 70s.
now if anyone that wants to give John Wayne a 2nd chance i would watch the quite man or the cowboys both great movies

[robertlouis]

That's good too along with Chopper. Director Nicolas Winding Refn also made Pusher and Valhalla.

And he made Let The Right One In, a fantastic Swedish movie about vampire children. Never understood the need for a Hollywood remake which was virtually the same shot for shot, but whose leads lacked the naive charm of the Swedish kids and whose direction was pretty heavy-handed.

[Dino Velvet]

And he made Let The Right One In, a fantastic Swedish movie about vampire children. Never understood the need for a Hollywood remake which was virtually the same shot for shot, but whose leads lacked the naive charm of the Swedish kids and whose direction was pretty heavy-handed.

Let The Right One In was directed by Tomas Alfredson. I liked the original and ignored the remake.

[robertlouis]

Let The Right One In was directed by Tomas Alfredson. I liked the original and ignored the remake.

Whoops - you're right. Refn made Tinker, Tailor. I was out with friends tonight and we agreed unanimously that while it captured the seediness of Le Carre's novels it wasn't a patch on the BBC series - which is available at a silly price on Amazon, btw.

[Dino Velvet]

Whoops - you're right. Refn made Tinker, Tailor. I was out with friends tonight and we agreed unanimously that while it captured the seediness of Le Carre's novels it wasn't a patch on the BBC series - which is available at a silly price on Amazon, btw.

I really like your TV over there and am trying to get into more shows/movies. I'm waaaaaaaaay behind. Seanchai and a few others of you have been helpful with recommendations. Thanks again. My father always had respect for British Film too. We watched tons of Hammer(sorry, more Horror) when I was a kid. Christopher Lee was as much an idol of mine as Boris Karloff. Those 2 were neighbors.

[robertlouis]

I really like your TV over there and am trying to get into more shows/movies. I'm waaaaaaaaay behind. Seanchai and a few others of you have been helpful with recommendations. Thanks again. My father always had respect for British Film too. We watched tons of Hammer(sorry, more Horror) when I was a kid. Christopher Lee was as much an idol of mine as Boris Karloff. Those 2 were neighbors.

You might like to try some really dark comedy from the BBC. "The League of Gentlemen" and "Psychoville" are two series that came from the same stable and are full of horror and grotesques as well as some great laughs. I think they'll be right up your street.

[Dino Velvet]

You might like to try some really dark comedy from the BBC. "The League of Gentlemen" and "Psychoville" are two series that came from the same stable and are full of horror and grotesques as well as some great laughs. I think they'll be right up your street.

Horror Hospital and Psychomania are great.

Horror Hospital Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J5UNuqqMmc)

PSYCHOMANIA - On DVD from Severin Films on 10/26! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1wxg0s9Vs)

[theone1982]

The real question is, could Eastwood ever pull off playing Ghengis Khan as spectacularly bad as Wayne?!

[robertlouis]

The real question is, could Eastwood ever pull off playing Ghengis Khan as spectacularly bad as Wayne?!

LMAO. Thanks for bringing the debate back on to the right intellectual level, One!

The answer is, of course, unequivocally, no. Eastwood has in the main made very wise choices in the parts he's been offered by other directors. The Duke never seemed troubled by the quality of what was thrown at him.

[Merkurie]

But could Clint play the Quiet Man?
http://www.users.qwest.net/~aknot/tqmwhisper2.jpg

[theone1982]

LMAO. Thanks for bringing the debate back on to the right intellectual level, One!

The answer is, of course, unequivocally, no. Eastwood has in the main made very wise choices in the parts he's been offered by other directors. The Duke never seemed troubled by the quality of what was thrown at him.

True! I highly doubt the Duke smoked weed, but I have to question if he did right before he accepted the Khan role. lol

[robertlouis]

But could Clint play the Quiet Man?
http://www.users.qwest.net/~aknot/tqmwhisper2.jpg

He played THE definitive quiet man in his first three movies lol.

[Merkurie]

Henry Fonda is a better comparison with Clint Eastwood than John Wayne.
Bruce Willis is perhaps more out of the Wayne tradition than Eastwood.

[Dino Velvet]

Henry Fonda is a better comparison with Clint Eastwood than John Wayne.
Bruce Willis is perhaps more out of the Wayne tradition than Eastwood.

Bruce Willis was also in Walter Hill's Last Man Standing.

Last Man Standing Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeilAzE_8M)

[Merkurie]

"Last Man Standing"-- Kicked Ass!

Eventhough it was a remake of "Fist Full of Dollars".

[robertlouis]

Henry Fonda is a better comparison with Clint Eastwood than John Wayne.
Bruce Willis is perhaps more out of the Wayne tradition than Eastwood.

That depends on whether you mean image or contribution. What sets Eastwood apart is his generally fine body of work as a director - although anything involving that bloody orang outan should be omitted completely.

[Merkurie]

I mean acting style and chops. Eastwood has clearly studied Henry Fonda.
I don't think Fonda ever directed.
As far as contribution to film, Henry Fonda has a huge body of work, as an actor.

[MrBlonde]

I have tried and tried to get into and enjoy John Wayne films. I respect the fact that people are huge fans of his. I'd love to jump on that bandwagon but have never been able to. I think he was more a man of his times.

It's easy for me to get into Eastwood's Western characters. Such greyness in his parts in that he'll save the day(sort of) but commit several unsavory acts in the process. Not only a fan of the Leone trilogy but also like High Plains Drifter, The Outlaw Josey Wales, Pale Rider, and Unforgiven.

I'm also a big fan of Lee Van Cleef, Charles Bronson, Franco Nero, and Tomas Milian. All 3 Sergios(Leone, Corbucci, Sollima) are good directors too.

http://whysoblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5c2c3fb027284bce733966524defe42f-e1314479550141-1024x768.jpg


I couldn't have said it better myself. I feel exactly the same way about all of that. Clint was the man! I mean still is but for me as a kid, he was the man.

For many years nothing he did in a western could be matched. I wouldn't even consider another movie for the title "Best Western" if it wasn't one of his spaghetti western trilogy movies with special mention to the Unforgiven which really was probably his best in terms of "realness". But I reluctantly gave the title over to Tombstone a few years ago because damnit, even without Clint that movie rocked so hard. It was at least the best non clint western ever.

[ValerieNelson]

I have to go with Clint as well. I sometimes just skip to the final bar scene of "Unforgiven," since it does kick ass.

[Dino Velvet]

I have to go with Clint as well. I sometimes just skip to the final bar scene of "Unforgiven," since it does kick ass.

Gene Hackman was amazing in that film too.

Unforgiven - A Greatest Fight Scene - - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SO5VO2ixWY)

[ValerieNelson]

Gene Hackman was amazing in that film too.

Unforgiven - A Greatest Fight Scene - - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SO5VO2ixWY)

Also let's not forget Sir Richard Harris and Morgan Freeman. :)

[Merkurie]

Who would you rather ride with John Wayne or Clint Eastwood?

If I was driving cattle across the country -- John Wayne
If I was going through Indian territory -- John Wayne

If I was going down Mexico way -- Clint Eastwood
If I was going on a killing -- Clint Eastwood

[Dino Velvet]

Also let's not forget Sir Richard Harris and Morgan Freeman. :)

Richard Harris was a great bullshit artist. Morgan Freeman was also excellent again playing Eastwood's friend. Wonder what they talked about while the camera wasn't rolling.

[Abartig]

This one is def a question of western eras, I really enjoyed a lot of John Wayne westerns but never got into Roy Rogers, Gene Autry style westerns but man-o-man did I love the Spaghetti westerns, especially Clint Eastwood ones. There are so many great and enjoyable westerns over the years but The Duke and The Man With No Name do stand at the top I think. My vote was for Clint in this poll.

This thread did branch off a few time into other actors so I am throwing another of my favorite western characters in the mix :)


My Name is Trinity - Theme - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97_qSwsDjvw)

Terence Hill and Bud Spencer made some fun comedy westerns that are worth checking out and Terence also had one of my favorite westerns starring with Henry Fonda.

My Name is Nobody (1973) Henry Fonda Western - Lonsome Gun full film - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ESeVwXLvE&feature=related)

[Ben]

I have tried and tried to get into and enjoy John Wayne films. I respect the fact that people are huge fans of his. I'd love to jump on that bandwagon but have never been able to. I think he was more a man of his times.

It's easy for me to get into Eastwood's Western characters. Such greyness in his parts in that he'll save the day(sort of) but commit several unsavory acts in the process. Not only a fan of the Leone trilogy but also like High Plains Drifter, The Outlaw Josey Wales, Pale Rider, and Unforgiven.

I'm also a big fan of Lee Van Cleef, Charles Bronson, Franco Nero, and Tomas Milian. All 3 Sergios(Leone, Corbucci, Sollima) are good directors too.



I liked Lee Van Cleef in Escape from New York....

President of what? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgHZubM7M-I)

Snake Plissken: Left Resistance Leader against Fascist Right-wing Free Market Tyranny #OWS - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fuPsC_UD1Q&feature=related)

[Dino Velvet]

I liked Lee Van Cleef in Escape from New York....

President of what? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgHZubM7M-I)

Snake Plissken: Left Resistance Leader against Fascist Right-wing Free Market Tyranny #OWS - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fuPsC_UD1Q&feature=related)

Van Cleef actually out-shined Eastwood in For A Few Dollars More. Klaus Kinski played a hunchback.

Van Cleef was also excellent in The Big Gundown.

THE BIG GUNDOWN - TRAILER - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0R561Z3OM)


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-onZXxsNTBJs/TfyqPFL-XPI/AAAAAAAAEew/yTd9bmZDBCA/s1600/11654020_gal.jpg

http://www.fumeursdepipe.net/images/vancleef.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/5/5a/Lee_Van_Cleef.jpg

[fred41]

Do you like earlier Bronson films like The Mechanic and Mr Majestyk? Most everyone likes The Magnificent Seven, The Dirty Dozen, and Once Upon The Time In The West.

Avoid this box set but I own it proudly.
Amazon.com: Charles Bronson Collection: (Kinjite / Messenger of Death / Murphy's Law / 10 to Midnight): Charles Bronson, Lisa Eilbacher, Andrew Stevens, Juan Fernández, Trish Van Devere, Gene Davis, Geoffrey Lewis, Wilford Brimley, Robert F. Lyons, Bert Williams, Iva Lane, Ola Ray, Richard Romanus, J. Lee Thompson, Gail Morgan Hickman, Harold Nebenzal, Paul Jarrico, Rex Burns, William Roberts: Movies & TV (http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Bronson-Collection-Messenger-Midnight/dp/B00007EFII/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1340755550&sr=1-2&keywords=kinjite)


Too bad they didn't include "Hard Times"...


As far as BBC shows...lots of great stuff...right now I'm making my way through the "Luthor" episodes from two seasons...
...of course like most shows of this kind you have to suspend all belief to think so many headline type serial killer and mass murder cases are handled by one lawman in so short a period of time...but that's why it's entertainment. I think you'd like this show.

[Dino Velvet]

Too bad they didn't include "Hard Times"...


As far as BBC shows...lots of great stuff...right now I'm making my way through the "Luthor" episodes from two seasons...
...of course like most shows of this kind you have to suspend all belief to think so many headline type serial killer and mass murder cases are handled by one lawman in so short a period of time...but that's why it's entertainment. I think you'd like this show.

The box set was from Cannon Films. I need a letterbox version of Hard Times. What about The Stone Killer? That needs a Blu-ray edition for sure.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AT75YTDKL._SS500_.jpg

[Merkurie]

One of Sergio Leone's finest.
Featuring Bronson and Fonda.
"Once Upon a Time in the West"
Once Upon a Time in The West Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNGQ1hUyx-k)

[robertlouis]

Are we moving towards a "Your favourite westerns" thread?

My top five:

Tombstone
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Ballad of Cable Hogue
Unforgiven
Stagecoach

[giovanni_hotel]

Clint Eastwood all day, every day.

I didn't 'get' John Wayne until I saw Red River. Mean ass SOB in that flick.
Red River (1948) - John Wayne shoots quitters - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3bhwIvtwY4)

[Stavros]

Are we moving towards a "Your favourite westerns" thread?

My top five:

Tombstone
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Ballad of Cable Hogue
Unforgiven
Stagecoach

Apart from being an eclectic list (none of the Dollars films?) the difficult question about westerns concerns the definition of a cowboy. Most westerns are either set during or after the Civil War, and many seem to have as their theme the vexing issue of land settlement in the prairies and the west, a major part of the capitalist economy which, together with the increasingly industrial economy of the north, meant that the slave economy of the south was an obstacle to economic progress in the US. The most eloquent film that emphasises the importance of private property for 'ordinary folk' against cattle barons and, crucially, first nations, is Shane.

Most cowboys were slaves, which is why most westerns are built on a lie, unless you read the western as anything but a cowboy film but as some moral tale about power. If John Ford's The Searchers is possibly the most important 'cowboy' film ever made, it is because it is, fundamentally, about the identity of America. But in those classic tv series' like Rawhide, Wagon Train, The Virginians, Laramie, and the gay one -Bonanza- none of the cowboys are slaves, and in fact I can't recall seeing many/any black people in them anyway.

[Prospero]

I agree with Stavros - it is difficult to define "western'. Would "Brokeback Mountain" qualify? (Boring film that it is) or "Heaven's Gate' which is hugely underrated. (I've seen the full five hour cut)

[Dino Velvet]

Any Sergio Corbucci fans here?

Django 1966
Navajo Joe 1966
The Hellbenders 1967
The Mercenary 1968
The Great Silence 1968
Compañeros 1970

[robertlouis]

I agree with Stavros - it is difficult to define "western'. Would "Brokeback Mountain" qualify? (Boring film that it is) or "Heaven's Gate' which is hugely underrated. (I've seen the full five hour cut)

That's true. No Country for Old Men? Another one to test the definition.

As for the Leone films, I'd put Once Upon a Time in the West ahead of the Dollars films and The Outlaw Josey Wales before them too.

Of Wayne films, The Shootist, The Searchers, Rio Bravo. But The Shootist stands head and shoulders above the others.

I've included one Peckinpah (Cable Hogue) but you can't ignore The Wild Bunch.

[Dino Velvet]

Fans of Spaghetti Westerns need to see this.

Amazon.com: The Spaghetti West - An IFC Original Documentary: Ferdinando Baldi, Sergio Corbucci, Alex Cox, Damiano Damiani, Clint Eastwood, Ennio Morricone: Movies & TV@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516XCKabgdL.@@AMEPARAM@@516XCKabgdL (http://www.amazon.com/The-Spaghetti-West-Original-Documentary/dp/B000OIOPQI)

The Spaghetti West Intro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-X0-ELpUr8)

[Dino Velvet]

I've included one Peckinpah (Cable Hogue) but you can't ignore The Wild Bunch.

Pat Garret & Billy The Kid is a different kind of Western but still a good Peckinpah film. Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia has a Western-like setting. Love the scene where Warren Oats gets the crabs.

[robertlouis]

One thing to remember about the Spaghetti westerns is that most of them were made in the central deserts of Spain which made credible and much cheaper alternatives to Texas and Mexico, but they were also made at a time when Franco's fascist regime still had its brutal stranglehold on the country.

Morally dubious to say the least. I remember my parents wouldn't take us to Spain till after the democratic reforms of the late 70s precisely because of their opposition to Franco - one of my dad's schoolteachers had been killed fighting for the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War.

[Dino Velvet]

One thing to remember about the Spaghetti westerns is that most of them were made in the central deserts of Spain which made credible and much cheaper alternatives to Texas and Mexico, but they were also made at a time when Franco's fascist regime still had its brutal stranglehold on the country.

True. I remember Eastwood speaking on that in an interview. Think it's on the doc I mentioned above.

[Stavros]

Any Sergio Corbucci fans here?

Django 1966
Navajo Joe 1966
The Hellbenders 1967
The Mercenary 1968
The Great Silence 1968
Compañeros 1970

Django is the best-known I think of this list, although I haven't seen any -clearly Dino your knowledge of film is in some genres greater than most! I looked up The Great Silence to find Klaus Kinski character is called Loco!

Years ago I knew someone who was obsessed with martial arts films and rated The Fate of Lee Khan as one of the greatest ever made, although I don't believe it is available in any form (not in the UK anyway).

[Merkurie]

"Red River" is one of Wayne's best performances. And the first scene where Wayne stakes his claim on the land his builds his empire from goes right to the point Stavros makes: the western is a myth created to re-imagine the recent history of America.

The racial facts are usually glanced over, but if you look closely at alot of westerns after the 50s you see Indians, mexicans, anglos shacking up. Blacks and Chinese in the background and more than a few"half breeds" (Steve Mcqueen, Charles Bronson, Marlon Brando played such characters) and "The Searchers" was really all about, rape, sex and prejudice.

[loren]

Clint Eastwood is cool, but I'd hate to see what this country would be like without John Wayne. I mean the guy fought in almost all of America's wars.:lol:

[buttslinger]

Well of course Clint Eastwood is gonna win on a damn HOMO SITE!!!!!Clint Eastwood could not have existed in the 1930s, he most certainly could not have carried a film. You had Gary Cooper, Clark Gable, Humphrey Bogart, and Errol Flynn. Now you've got Brad Pitt, Will Smith and Johnny Depp! Who's the better actress, Bette Davis or Julia Roberts? In the Depression, movies were more important. They didn't have cable TV back then. No special effects. Walt Disney.

Of course, I really liked Clint in Eiger Sanction, and Where Eagles Dare.

[Dino Velvet]

Django is the best-known I think of this list, although I haven't seen any -clearly Dino your knowledge of film is in some genres greater than most! I looked up The Great Silence to find Klaus Kinski character is called Loco!

Years ago I knew someone who was obsessed with martial arts films and rated The Fate of Lee Khan as one of the greatest ever made, although I don't believe it is available in any form (not in the UK anyway).

Stavros, please see The Great Silence so we can discuss it. I have an interesting story about the film's premiere too.

[ValerieNelson]

Richard Harris was a great bullshit artist. Morgan Freeman was also excellent again playing Eastwood's friend. Wonder what they talked about while the camera wasn't rolling.

Hrmmm maybe about which was their favorite John Wayne movie was?

[talldudeil]

John Wayne for westerns and Clint Eastwood for other parts, although great in westerns you cannot beat the Duke

[fred41]

Actually, depending upon one's personal definition of a "Western"...they are not always just American. Watch the Australian film "The Proposition"...it's a good "western".

[Stavros]

I saw The Proposition and loathed it. As for it being a western -no. Again, I think most westerns are about private property, greed, and issues of power -lawman -vs-outlaw, but in essence they are all about the growth of capitalism and free markets in the US, which is why the issues of slavery and the treatment of your first nations are fundamental to a good western -including those set in the Civil War. The Dollars films work for me because the motivation is greed, but also because the men whose greed seems limitless partly enjoy hunting other men, but also because they seem incapable or unwilling to settle down, get married, have a family, a homestead. I think John Wayne is often either a husband or a widower or someone whose relationships have failed, whereas Eastwood seems to be the free spirit, more anarchic--?

[Jericho]

I saw The Proposition and loathed it. As for it being a western -no. Again, I think most westerns are about private property, greed, and issues of power -lawman -vs-outlaw, but in essence they are all about the growth of capitalism and free markets in the US, which is why the issues of slavery and the treatment of your first nations are fundamental to a good western.

I loved "The Proposition", thought it had a definite western feel and theme to it.

And while we're on about Australian westerns, i think "Quigley Down Under", deserves a mention.

[robertlouis]

I saw The Proposition and loathed it. As for it being a western -no. Again, I think most westerns are about private property, greed, and issues of power -lawman -vs-outlaw, but in essence they are all about the growth of capitalism and free markets in the US, which is why the issues of slavery and the treatment of your first nations are fundamental to a good western -including those set in the Civil War. The Dollars films work for me because the motivation is greed, but also because the men whose greed seems limitless partly enjoy hunting other men, but also because they seem incapable or unwilling to settle down, get married, have a family, a homestead. I think John Wayne is often either a husband or a widower or someone whose relationships have failed, whereas Eastwood seems to be the free spirit, more anarchic--?

What did you think of Peckinpah's Major Dundee, Stavros? Flawed, as all his films are, but it handled the issues of race etc particularly well, I thought.

[ValerieNelson]

I also liked this HBO movie called, "El Diablo."

[fred41]

I loved "The Proposition", thought it had a definite western feel and theme to it.

And while we're on about Australian westerns, i think "Quigley Down Under", deserves a mention.

I remember that , but I'm not sure I actually saw it....I"ll give it a look. I'm never really a harsh critic...a movie just has to entertain me...and I liked some of Tom Selleck's westerns...like the ones he made with Sam Elliot...even though I think they were television movies.

[Jericho]

I remember that , but I'm not sure I actually saw it....I"ll give it a look. I'm never really a harsh critic...a movie just has to entertain me...and I liked some of Tom Selleck's westerns...like the ones he made with Sam Elliot...even though I think they were television movies.

If they entertain me, i have no problem with TV movies.
I think Tom Selleck's the perfect laconic cowboy.
Forget Magnum PI, watch him in Crossfire Trail!

[fred41]

If they entertain me, i have no problem with TV movies.
I think Tom Selleck's the perfect laconic cowboy.
Forget Magnum PI, watch him in Crossfire Trail!


...him and Elliot were used in a lot of the Louis L'Amour adaptations.

[runningdownthatdream]

...him and Elliot were used in a lot of the Louis L'Amour adaptations.

Yep - good casting I thought since they really fit the Sackett roles.

[runningdownthatdream]

I think John Wayne films portrayed the West in the way white Americans in the early to mid 20th century wanted to see it. Clint's movies, and his characterizations in them showed more of the lawlessness that was likely closer to the reality. The differences may have also been due to who produced and directed each of them.

I prefer Clint.