Question to those that date escorts

[nina_lisa]

it is not uncommon if you are into ts, that you end up paying to see one. Question of offer and demand.

But here is the question:
- do you pay because you pay them to leave after having had sex, and you don't desire to have a relationship, same thing if you dated women.

-because you want to see someone different each time?

- or would you prefer something more long term, even if it was a sugar daddy arrangement?

[PetetheCheek]

i pay because i'd be uncomfortable dating a ts girl in public. wish i didn't care about what people think, but i do, so i guess i pay for discretion.

[darkrose2000]

It is a very delicate question, Nina_lisa.

Many people, including me, date and would like to have relationship with Trans girl, but it is not so easy, as it is said.

Most of the Tgirls, especially escort just get used to be alone and to live alone.
When you live alone long time, you have difficulties accepting someone else around you all the time.
Also some people will not agree their girlfriend to continue escorting in a long term.
This is my opinion, and believe me, I had quite experience. Also I don't mind to be seen in public with Tgirl, or to live with.

Ofcourse if I am Brad Pitt brother, things will be different :) :)

Regards,
K.

[Jericho]

- do you pay because you pay them to leave after having had sex, and you don't desire to have a relationship, same thing if you dated women.

^^^This^^^
It may well be selfish but, i don't want to have to put up with someone elses shit.
Of course, things are always subject to change , but for the time being...Been there, done that! :shrug

[Kevin Dong]

me no pay!!

[nina_lisa]

It is a very delicate question, Nina_lisa.

Many people, including me, date and would like to have relationship with Trans girl, but it is not so easy, as it is said.

Most of the Tgirls, especially escort just get used to be alone and to live alone.
When you live alone long time, you have difficulties accepting someone else around you all the time.
Also some people will not agree their girlfriend to continue escorting in a long term.


I can see how been used to been alone can make a relation difficult, and even if a person is ok with escorting, it is not an easy relationship.

Many men will want the woman to stop escorting, yet transition is hugely expensive at the same time.

In the past i had many girls that wanted to date me, and i used to tell them: don't think dating a ts girl is as exotic as it look, it bring a lot of challenges you have not thought about.

One girl asked if i want to go out with her to an attraction parc, and i had to say: no sorry, people will scream at me: that is a man (happened to me more than once), i don't want to go any where.

[ibanezuk]

Horrible answer but its convenience. I work non stop and basically don't give myself the time to go out and meet, I just see when i might have a free hour and try and book something in.

[south ov da border]

I think the answer for a lot of people is they pay because there are as few strings attached as possible...

I am willing to date a trans woman in my personal life, but it's usually hard to find one that will date you just for you. I'm sure they are out there, but I've had no luck...

[LibertyHarkness]

i would date someone but they would have to accept i work in the adult industry with no intentions of leaving it for the forseeable future ... i.e webcamming, camera work , modelling or escorting etc ...

so therefore i would pretty much say that rules out 99% of civilians ...of which would just leave me to find another person the industry as they understand the setup .

[south ov da border]

i would date someone but they would have to accept i work in the adult industry with no intentions of leaving it for the forseeable future ... i.e webcamming, camera work , modelling or escorting etc ...

so therefore i would pretty much say that rules out 99% of civilians ...of which would just leave me to find another person the industry as they understand the setup .


That is so understandable. It's the same with entertainers. One does not realize the strings that come along with it. Personally I'm not going to make somebody stop what they do over my petty insecurities. Not fair for either party...

[Tyler___Durden]

i pay because i'd be uncomfortable dating a ts girl in public. wish i didn't care about what people think, but i do, so i guess i pay for discretion.
Then date a Ts who doesn't look like a Ts, maybe? ;)


Many Ts who are indistinguishable from Bio-women, are in long term relationships.
Their long term partners often started dating them when said Ts was not really able to represent as Bio.
That's why 'They' call it Transition; you know from one thing to another thing.
{Not that transsexual women are 'things' any more than anyone else is}

Anyway it should be about the person not what they look like....
Pa! Who am I kidding! I'm an Extreme Lookist!

[Tyler___Durden]

One girl asked if i want to go out with her to an attraction parc, and i had to say: no sorry, people will scream at me: that is a man
I did tell you not to get your willy out and wave it around,
while we were on the rollercoaster ride!
That was soooo embarrassing.

[nina_lisa]

ok i am thinking loudly here. for me escorting is short term, i don't see myself 1-2 years from now still doing it. But anyone i might date might have an issue with what i did in the past.

- I can go and date women, so far my experience what that women are more sensitive and more understanding of who i am.

- If i date someone who main preference is ts girls, he might be strongly against, me having surgery. so i don't want to have non supportive partners.

my own experience with escorting even if limited, is many chasers will only seem me as a fetish and nothing more. it is even pretty common for people to refer to me as He.

- I can date a straight man that is not looking for a ts, he might reject me when he know i am ts, but he will also be more supportive if one day i decide to go for the surgery. Which make the option of dating girls a better option, as many men have insecurities of the type: i found a ts attractive, does it make me gay.


I am just thinking loudly, so anyone feel free to comment on what i said.

[Tyler___Durden]

ok i am thinking loudly here. for me escorting is short term, i don't see myself 1-2 years from now still doing it. But anyone i might date might have an issue with what i did in the past.
How many jobs have you done including short term, temping, jobs in school holidays and even paper rounds?
Do you present every new partner your CV?
Of course not.
Your escorting for a period in your past would be no more relevant
to a relationship, than any other.
Don't tell them.

[smoothboi]

I wouldn't have a problem dating a tg or gg who was an escort or worked in the adult industry. [And I like Captain Jack too, Liberty, so we'd have something to talk about].

I don't have any problems with paying if I had the money. For me, I would pay for an escort because it would be a chance to have sex with someone who is superhot and way out of my league. I'm pretty charming and am dating some nice looking women that I like, but I'm basically a 7.

[Dino Velvet]

Don't tell them.

I agree.

[bluesoul]

How many jobs have you done including short term, temping, jobs in school holidays and even paper rounds?
Do you present every new partner your CV?
Of course not.
Your escorting for a period in your past would be no more relevant
to a relationship, than any other.
Don't tell them.


hahaha i think having sex with people for money is a little different from, say, an accounting job. i think it's very good of nina_lisa to be honest with her potential partners about what she's done (despite any negative connotations that might arise).

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my girlfriend has prostituted in the past as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

[flabbybody]

Horrible answer but its convenience. I work non stop and basically don't give myself the time to go out and meet, I just see when i might have a free hour and try and book something in.
that's not a horrible answer. I'll just add to it.
I'm a 50 something white guy from Queens who's not likely to fit in at a Spanish gay club at 3 in the morning. Practically speaking my options for having sex with a tgirl are limited to escorts. There's lotsa girls who do it, and lotsa guys like me. It works well for both parties

[nina_lisa]

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my girlfriend has prostituted in the past as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

If you had a GF that did not escort, but when she was 20y.o every week she would sleep with 3 different guys, would that be a deal breaker?

[Tyler___Durden]

hahaha i think having sex with people for money is a little different from, say, an accounting job. i think it's very good of nina_lisa to be honest with her potential partners about what she's done (despite any negative connotations that might arise).

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my girlfriend has prostituted in the past as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

hahaha i think having sex with people for money is no different at all to people paying escorts to have sex with them, then to not disclose that fact to any potential girlfriend.

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my potential boyfriend is playing the double-standards game as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

[Quiet Reflections]

Having never paid for sex I don't know how the other side thinks but I was always of the opinion that most people pay because it is easier that looking for something real and putting yourself in a position to be emotionally hurt. Genuine intimacy scares most people and turning part of that into a business transaction removes some of the open, naked feeling of an actual relationship.

[bluesoul]

If you had a GF that did not escort, but when she was 20y.o every week she would sleep with 3 different guys, would that be a deal breaker?

most likely yes.

[bluesoul]

hahaha i think having sex with people for money is no different at all to people paying escorts to have sex with them, then to not disclose that fact to any potential girlfriend.

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my potential boyfriend is playing the double-standards game as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

you don't have to change what i said to interject your own humor. maybe for you that type of jerry springer relationship is normal, but for me, i'd prefer if my partner was open.

[Jericho]

hahaha i think having sex with people for money is a little different from, say, an accounting job.

You're kidding, right?
Accountants are the second biggest whores on the planet (slightly behind lawyers)! :hide-1:

[buttslinger]

Just for kicks I'd like to fuck that girl I had a big crush on in high school,
or that hot stranger walking down the street,
maybe that married co-worker,
or that 16 year old chick in line at the 7-11

Fucking a ho is an exotic, do-able fantasy. After a few drinks it sounds like the greatest idea in the history of mankind.

[kmersh]

i would date someone but they would have to accept i work in the adult industry with no intentions of leaving it for the forseeable future ... i.e webcamming, camera work , modelling or escorting etc ...

so therefore i would pretty much say that rules out 99% of civilians ...of which would just leave me to find another person the industry as they understand the setup .

I tend to look at things vastly differently than most, but I feel that if I met somebody in the "adult" industry than I do not have a leg to stand on in terms of asking them to leave it. FULL STOP.

Granted, I am an extremely laid back person and my philosophy has always been that what you do during the day is your business, as long as you come home to me at night than I am cool with almost anything.

With regards to paying for sex, I intrinsically have nothing against paying, but as I have been a guest of the state for two whole years and out on probation, anything illegal (and that goes for paying for sex [even though I do NOT believe it should be illegal]) right now is not is just not going to happen.

K

[Tyler___Durden]

hahaha i think having sex with people for money is a little different from, say, an accounting job. i think it's very good of nina_lisa to be honest with her potential partners about what she's done (despite any negative connotations that might arise).

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my girlfriend has prostituted in the past as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.


hahaha i think having sex with people for money is no different at all to people paying escorts to have sex with them, then to not disclose that fact to any potential girlfriend.

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my potential boyfriend is playing the double-standards game as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.


you don't have to change what i said to interject your own humor. maybe for you that type of jerry springer relationship is normal, but for me, i'd prefer if my partner was open.
Yes you are quite right. Having a relationship with a transsexual woman is Jerry Springer territory. I'll be sure to tell my hubby when he gets home from shift (Accident & Emergency ambulance response crew)
Frak, with that job he really should have noticed relationships such as ours are car-crash territory! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/rolleyes.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
I unreservedly apologise.

I have now revised my last post; I trust this new version meets with your approval:

hahaha i think going on transsexual porn sites but not disclosing this highly relevant fact about their sexuality, to any potential girlfriend, very telling. Said person is almost certainly going to feature on Springer themselves; they should very definitely disclose that fact to any potential girlfriend.

i know for me personally, i'd like to know if my potential boyfriend masturbates over the pictures on Hung Angels, as it would (most likely) be a deal breaker.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[SexSlave1972]

Well paying is easiest, I date TS's just for sex... no relationship cons but neither the good sides.

I've could date a TS if I would love to settle down with anyone, that's no problem.
Single and staying that way...


Don't take too seriously this last one but.....
Money, it may be even cheaper than having a relationship... U' pay for 1 hour of intimacy now and then or 24/7/365 of living. Do the math :D

[Prospero]

it varies. Sometimes because you really desire a beautiful looking girl you'd seen advertising on-line. Sometimes you get that itch and go see a woman you've seen before with whom you've had a good experience or with whom you are compatible. Never because you want to leave quickly or want them to leave. I'm almost always delighted to linger as long as possible (except with those escorts who're are plain bloody awful - see my various reviews of the bad 'uns).
And no - I don't do it to doge a relationship. I've had a few with transgendered women. I would again if the right lady were to swim into view.

[shaustin]

ok i am thinking loudly here. for me escorting is short term, i don't see myself 1-2 years from now still doing it. But anyone i might date might have an issue with what i did in the past.

- I can go and date women, so far my experience what that women are more sensitive and more understanding of who i am.

- If i date someone who main preference is ts girls, he might be strongly against, me having surgery. so i don't want to have non supportive partners.

my own experience with escorting even if limited, is many chasers will only seem me as a fetish and nothing more. it is even pretty common for people to refer to me as He.

- I can date a straight man that is not looking for a ts, he might reject me when he know i am ts, but he will also be more supportive if one day i decide to go for the surgery. Which make the option of dating girls a better option, as many men have insecurities of the type: i found a ts attractive, does it make me gay.


I am just thinking loudly, so anyone feel free to comment on what i said.

The honest truth? Nothing in life is certain. There are no absolutes. Humans are amazing creatures, both in kindness and cruelty. I believe the only fair way to go through life is to treat every individual on a case by case basis. To find happiness I believe a person must be open to possibility. When you limit your options you sometimes block people out of your life you might otherwise have benefited from. This is actually why I never felt ashamed of my attraction to TS's and actually embraced it. I have a strong love for women, and to me if it looks, acts, and smells like a woman than it's a woman. To let a minor detail like genitalia rob me of a possibilty to make a connection with a beautiful woman is insane in my mind. But it's only because I accept that there is a possibility for understanding and happiness traveling down such a route. Perhaps my odds of living happily ever after are better if I focus 100% of GG's, but I choose to allow for the possibility that I may end up with a TS instead. You never know who it will be who catches your attentions.

[fordly66]

ok i am thinking loudly here. for me escorting is short term, i don't see myself 1-2 years from now still doing it. But anyone i might date might have an issue with what i did in the past.

- I can go and date women, so far my experience what that women are more sensitive and more understanding of who i am.

- If i date someone who main preference is ts girls, he might be strongly against, me having surgery. so i don't want to have non supportive partners.

my own experience with escorting even if limited, is many chasers will only seem me as a fetish and nothing more. it is even pretty common for people to refer to me as He.

- I can date a straight man that is not looking for a ts, he might reject me when he know i am ts, but he will also be more supportive if one day i decide to go for the surgery. Which make the option of dating girls a better option, as many men have insecurities of the type: i found a ts attractive, does it make me gay.


I am just thinking loudly, so anyone feel free to comment on what i said.

I am a man and would definitely date a girl such as yourself. If we became serious, I would prefer that you stop escorting. Also I wouldn't mind at all if you have the "final surgery". I would actually be there for you and support you.

[south ov da border]

When it comes down to it, SOMEBODY has to pay for the transition and all the parts of the process. One just has to be realistic about the matter...

[Prospero]

I think that most of the guys here who are into seeing TS escorts would admit that the cock is a big part of the attraction in the first place. But as you get to know the girl and like her then it may become less and less important. With the few T girls I've dated - as opposed to seen purely as escorts (if we'd carried on seeing each other) then I'd have had no issue whatsoever with a transition. I'd have supported them - just like you'd support a GG if she needed some form of surgery. Once the heart gets involved it creates new priorities.

[BellaBellucci]

i pay because i'd be uncomfortable dating a ts girl in public. wish i didn't care about what people think, but i do, so i guess i pay for discretion.

Grow up.

~BB~

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

it is not uncommon if you are into ts, that you end up paying to see one. Question of offer and demand.

But here is the question:
- do you pay because you pay them to leave after having had sex, and you don't desire to have a relationship, same thing if you dated women.

-because you want to see someone different each time?

- or would you prefer something more long term, even if it was a sugar daddy arrangement?

Tiger Woods is proof that paying them doesn't make then go away or silence them.

So to me paying for sex is like admitting defeat. Knowing that in no other circumstances would these women have sex with you, but you must have it.

I fell in with this lot some time ago but then it dawned on me that if I don't pay for pussy why should I be paying for tranny cock? And as a result my way of addressing escorts or any type of woman is now psychologically in tuned with my ego.

Simply put if she doesn't like me, then I don't want her.

Case in point last night I met this passable young black tgirl in center city who wanted a ride to another stroll. You could tell she was on a mission to make money but her flirts with me were "genuine" But because money was slow she still felt obligated to asked me if I wanted to "spend some money, maybe $60?" To which I said no. Yet she didn't stress the issue or anything.

And 5 minutes later her gaff was to the side allowing me to play with her pretty fat clit in my car. It could've gone farther but she hinted constantly at her obvious disdain for clients who liked to get fucked. Mind you I told the chick I was verse before she even got in the car. So she was either not paying attention or relatively stupid.

Hell, if I wanted to take an over-opinionated woman out to plays, dinners and movies without getting what I wanted in returned. I'd be married to a genetic chick.

She called me earlier today but I ignored it. And I consider yesterday a lost since there were quite a few ladies out there who caught my eye and I basically bet on the wrong horse.

So that's the only complaints I have.

Stay Thirsty~

[BellaBellucci]

Hell, if I wanted to take an over-opinionated woman out to plays, dinners and movies without getting what I wanted in returned. I'd be married to a genetic chick.

Got it. No girls with brains for you, especially if they also have a penis.

Oh, and you take no personal enjoyment out of a date unless it ends 'happily.'

... me love you long time. :rolleyes:

~BB~

[buttslinger]

It's the people around you that are important. Now SERVE ME you people!!!

[Gambino]

I've dated a ts who was escorting, was weird when she lived with me for awhile, I'd go entertain myself outside for half an hour to an hour while a client came in and did his thing. It fucking sucks, never date a ts who escorts, cause at the time I was around 22-23, and being that age your horny all the time, and she just doesn't want to at times cause it reminds her of work. The living together while she escorted tore the relationship apart.

I also date another ts later on, went to parties and shit with other people who knew, was apprehensive about going to parties, but in the end just said fuck it, what the fuck do I care what these people think, we just didn't make it. I've never payed, it's my own moral thing, sex is intimate, and of its not freely given, then it shouldn't be done. I don't begrudge anyone who does it, but it isn't for me

[nina_lisa]

or maybe i'll just day another ts girl, my skin will get more estrogen, just by touching her skin :kiss:

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

Got it. No girls with brains for you, especially if they also have a penis.

Oh, and you take no personal enjoyment out of a date unless it ends 'happily.'

... me love you long time. :rolleyes:

~BB~

No... you don't get it. And I'd wager that you don't get much in general.

The tgirl in question went on a rant about clients acting like "Faggots" only to conclude by saying "BTW, I'm going to the gay pride festival in NYC tomorrow" Does that sound like a long term winner to you????

No wait don't bother to answer that since your goal was obviously to take anything you weren't partial to and run with it while clearly not knowing thing about me or the whole story. But tell, me how do you equate me recognizing a potentially bad connection to me wanting a transsexual airhead???

Is your personal enjoyment factored in on terrible hook ups who don't reciprocate or end well? Great have fun with that assessment.

I've got other plans...
But don't fret...your over all sarcasm was....."pretty".

Stay Thirsty~

[BellaBellucci]

No... you don't get it. And I'd wager that you don't get much in general.

The tgirl in question went on a rant about clients acting like "Faggots" only to conclude by saying "BTW, I'm going to the gay pride festival in NYC tomorrow" Does that sound like a long term winner to you????

No wait don't bother to answer that since your goal was obviously to take anything you weren't partial to and run with it while clearly not knowing thing about me or the whole story. But tell, me how do you equate me recognizing a potentially bad connection to me wanting a transsexual airhead???

Is your personal enjoyment factored in on terrible hook ups who don't reciprocate or end well? Great have fun with that assessment.

I've got other plans...
But don't fret...your over all sarcasm was....."pretty".

Stay Thirsty~

Geez! She sounds like a nitemare! My sincerest apologies for using you to make a point. Wow! You deserve a medal, methinks. :Bowdown: :lol:

~BB~

[LovinThaTSLadiez]

it is not uncommon if you are into ts, that you end up paying to see one. Question of offer and demand.

But here is the question:
- do you pay because you pay them to leave after having had sex, and you don't desire to have a relationship, same thing if you dated women.

-because you want to see someone different each time?

- or would you prefer something more long term, even if it was a sugar daddy arrangement?

Well, I have only seen three escorts of any kind in my life and they were TS. GG's always came easy to me, so I never had a need to pay. I don't live in an area with a large TS population, so I decided to pay for that experience. Not to mention, I wanted someone who looked worth paying for and not some dude in a wig, ewww!

Anyway, to answer your question, I would love to have a TS girlfriend. Like I mentioned before, I don't live in an area with many TS's. I also don't go out to clubs of any kind. I don't even drink alcohol. But if I were to meet the right TS lady, I would date her. I am an individual and couldn't possibly care less what the general public thinks of me. Most of the guys that hate on a guy for being public with a TS probably go home and masturbate to that same TS that they saw earlier. I like what I like and I am comfortable with that.

[kmersh]

I was thinking about this and another thought came to me, the few TS women I know, all say the same thing, they don't want to date men who like Transgendered women, they want to date strait men who seem them strictly as women.

I can see this, it does make sense, the word transgendered means to go from one gender to the other and dating somebody who like you in between genders may not go over so well with many TS women.

Thus, the need for TS women in "Adult Industry" who offer their services while they are transgendered and in return collect money to further along their transition, which is a type of symbiotic relationship.

I guess the same could be said for them (TS women in the Adult Industry), that they probably do not want to date men who like them as Transgendered women but strait men who see them strictly as women.

I would be curious to hear from the TS women on site and their viewpoint.

K

[RedDevil81]

I pay for it because, as has been said by some, it is hard to come by (or over, fnar, fnar) TS girls in "normal" bars/clubs. I don't have a problem getting gg but meeting TS girls is difficult. I don't go to gay bars, as for a start I don't like the music(!) and I get sick of gay blokes trying to chat me up! I've been to wayout a few times in London when I've been down there and thought it was alright but never pulled in there.

So, to cut a long story short, I see escorts as it's the only way I can generally see TS girls, I would date a ts should the oppertunity present itself, I don't feel any shame in it, but it just never has.

[nina_lisa]

I was thinking about this and another thought came to me, the few TS women I know, all say the same thing, they don't want to date men who like Transgendered women, they want to date strait men who seem them strictly as women.


One of the reason it is hard to find and date ts girls. On the other hand many ts girls got beaten up when a straight guy learned she was ts. So not all ts will date a straight guy that does not know she is ts and then say: well i have something to tell you.

But yes for most men wanting to date a ts, they are swimming in shark populated water.

[BigBlackMan]

Bella is a weird chick.

[BigBlackMan]

No such thing as "dating" an escort.

[rydermorrison]

Wow.. Lots of misogyny going on in this thread.. Any ways I say that I DEF do not thi.k that men who are attracted to trans girls and aknowledge thag attraction and pursue a relationship with one inherently see us as men or something other then women. Some do. Many fetishize us. Many are super gay guys that are so far in the closet they cant even admit it to themselves. Some are bi. but not all men are like that. Some r completley straight men who are attractd to beautiful trans women... Its.not complicated really when u think about it.

[yosi]

the few TS women I know, all say the same thing, they don't want to date men who like Transgendered women



"I don't want to join a club that's is willing to accept members like me"

Groucho Marx

[Tyler___Durden]

No such thing as "dating" an escort.
My hubby would beg to differ. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/dry.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Quiet Reflections]

My hubby would beg to differ. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/dry.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Were you and escort when you started dating or is it a recent thing? I have been in a few open relationships but never with an escort, I would think it is somewhat similar as far as trust issues go.

[Tyler___Durden]

I was thinking about this and another thought came to me, the few TS women I know, all say the same thing, they don't want to date men who like Transgendered women, they want to date strait men who seem them strictly as women.

I can see this, it does make sense, the word transgendered means to go from one gender to the other and dating somebody who like you in between genders may not go over so well with many TS women.

Thus, the need for TS women in "Adult Industry" who offer their services while they are transgendered and in return collect money to further along their transition, which is a type of symbiotic relationship.

I guess the same could be said for them (TS women in the Adult Industry), that they probably do not want to date men who like them as Transgendered women but strait men who see them strictly as women.

I would be curious to hear from the TS women on site and their viewpoint
kmersh, that's a great post.

I think that ts women who say the part of your post which I've highlighted,
are making a curious choice and are most likely single.
I know quite a few with that mind set. And they've all been single for years.

I mean WTF?
You don't want to date a person who initially is attracted to your Trans-history.
But you do want to try to date men who when you say:
“I'm a female with a trans history” most likely initially will have zero interest in you.
And even if they date you, after a while your history will likely keep surfacing in their minds.
{Acknowledged the issue about a man being initially attracted to those
parts of you which you are neutral through to despising about yourself
and wanting to change. Deal with it.
Either don't date till your surgery's are all done, or take a chance}

Well I have new for those ts women.
Every single person in the world is initially attracted to something superficial. Be it:
big tits (or small) a hairy back, long blonde hair,
moustache, cute Kylie-like nose, manicured fingernails,
big hairy hands, the smile, the open friendly face,
the scowling hard-man look, the biker gang cut off,
the gucci suit, the rubber all in one body suit,
the style of posting on a forum, coz they train racing pigeons
..... and so on.
If the initial attraction remains focused on just that then it's one or two
dates or a one night stand. If the focus changes to the rest of the person,
then it just may end up a 50 year marriage.

The sexual orientation of a man has zero to do with whether
they see a person as a trans, or strictly as a woman.
That perception changes after a while anyway.
That "hot tranny fuck" becomes the attractive girlfriend / wife.

As you say, trans mean change. In our case huge physical and mental changes.
Which is a huge thing for any partner to deal with.
Understanding this goes a long way to building the base of a solid relationship.
Give n' take....

Escorts. Transition is hugely expensive and often fucks existing careers.
Most men actually don't want a real relationship with us. They won't offer
the companionship, support etc. They just want a novelty shag.
Which are the reasons so many of us turn tricks:
'I'm not gonna get the home, garden, two kids
and lunch with the in-laws, I may as well get what I can.' Which is Coin.

The only thing for us to be aware of is people who want to date us for
ONLY that one night stand. Those people who know their only interest is
in our superficial representation. Basically they want a one-off
or occasional fuck, but are not honest enough to say.
{You never know, we just might be wanting the same with you, ie a casual sex-only engagement. ;)}
But it's all down to two way honesty.
{Most transitioned Ts women have a high bullshit detector always switched on and set to 'High'}
Those that don't, gripe on forums about 'users' and 'dogs' and 'cock hounds'

Bio woman have to make the same judgement calls on amorous first approaches too.
Welcome to Femalehood.

[rydermorrison]

kmersh, that's a great post.

I think that ts women who say the part of your post which I've highlighted,
are making a curious choice and are most likely single.
I know quite a few with that mind set. And they've all been single for years.

I mean WTF?
You don't want to date a person who initially is attracted to your Trans-history.
But you do want to try to date men who when you say:
“I'm a female with a trans history” most likely initially will have zero interest in you.
And even if they date you, after a while your history will likely keep surfacing in their minds.
{Acknowledged the issue about a man being initially attracted to those
parts of you which you are neutral through to despising about yourself
and wanting to change. Deal with it.
Either don't date till your surgery's are all done, or take a chance}

Well I have new for those ts women.
Every single person in the world is initially attracted to something superficial. Be it:
big tits (or small) a hairy back, long blonde hair,
moustache, cute Kylie-like nose, manicured fingernails,
big hairy hands, the smile, the open friendly face,
the scowling hard-man look, the biker gang cut off,
the gucci suit, the rubber all in one body suit,
the style of posting on a forum, coz they train racing pigeons
..... and so on.
If the initial attraction remains focused on just that then it's one or two
dates or a one night stand. If the focus changes to the rest of the person,
then it just may end up a 50 year marriage.

The sexual orientation of a man has zero to do with whether
they see a person as a trans, or strictly as a woman.
That perception changes after a while anyway.
That "hot tranny fuck" becomes the attractive girlfriend / wife.

As you say, trans mean change. In our case huge physical and mental changes.
Which is a huge thing for any partner to deal with.
Understanding this goes a long way to building the base of a solid relationship.
Give n' take....

Escorts. Transition is hugely expensive and often fucks existing careers.
Most men actually don't want a real relationship with us. They won't offer
the companionship, support etc. They just want a novelty shag.
Which are the reasons so many of us turn tricks:
'I'm not gonna get the home, garden, two kids
and lunch with the in-laws, I may as well get what I can.' Which is Coin.

The only thing for us to be aware of is people who want to date us for
ONLY that one night stand. Those people who know their only interest is
in our superficial representation. Basically they want a one-off
or occasional fuck, but are not honest enough to say.
{You never know, we just might be wanting the same with you, ie a casual sex-only engagement. ;)}
But it's all down to two way honesty.
{Most transitioned Ts women have a high bullshit detector always switched on and set to 'High'}
Those that don't, gripe on forums about 'users' and 'dogs' and 'cock hounds'

Bio woman have to make the same judgement calls on amorous first approaches too.
Welcome to Femalehood.

Right on..

[nina_lisa]

attracted to a hairy back


You are attracted to ts with hairy back? Couldn't find a ts with hairy back but found this instead

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lXIRhxOg0wY/TkxInNxKlJI/AAAAAAAAB4Q/r1X3p8oeSGw/s1600/hairy+dentist.jpg

[nina_lisa]

As you say, trans mean change. In our case huge physical and mental changes.
Which is a huge thing for any partner to deal with.


So true, why i told many people: don't think dating a ts is as exotic as it look.



Escorts. Transition is hugely expensive and often fucks existing careers.


Currently i have no interest in doing escorting as a career or for a few years. Some men might not like that now i escort, but hey they are not the one that pay for my transition. I'd also rather not escort, but don't have that luxury now.




Most men actually don't want a real relationship with us. They won't offer
the companionship, support etc. They just want a novelty shag.
Which are the reasons so many of us turn tricks:
'I'm not gonna get the home, garden, two kids
and lunch with the in-laws, I may as well get what I can.' Which is Coin.


That is why my feeling, if i do it i want to be paid for it, at least it help with transition.

just put an ad on craiglist without even mentioning escort, most reply are: are you free in 30min. or i'll have sex with you under one condition: no one should see us together.

[kmersh]

Personally, I look at it like this, if you are trans (great) if you are a genetic female, (great), I care more about who you are rather than what you are. To me, if we click mentally and emotionally the other stuff, is just stuff.

It is why I can date somebody in the "adult industry" because that is their job, not who they are, I would assume that they want to date somebody who likes them for who they are, not what they do make money. Personally, I would hope my next GF (be it Genetic Female or Trans) dates me for who KMersh is a person rather than what I do on a daily basis.

In the same vane, I would not date a transwoman strictly because she is Trans, I would date her because we had common interests, wants, desires, etc. and in my humble that just matters more, than what is below the belt or her chosen career path. FULL STOP!

This is an interesting dialogue (at least to me) I am curious to hear what other think,
K

[BellaBellucci]

I used to think a more sexually open society would be a good thing, but now that we have it, I can see that it just provides validation for misogyny. Leave it to men to fuck up a beautiful thing like real love.

~BB~

[Tyler___Durden]

You are attracted to ts with hairy back? Couldn't find a ts with hairy back but...
Hummm... quite cute...But I digress.

No I'm not referring to characteristics of ts per say.
Rather characteristics of a ts or a woman or a man.
I'm referring to about 7 billion people in total.
Only a tiny % are Ts.

[south ov da border]

kmersh, that's a great post.

I think that ts women who say the part of your post which I've highlighted,
are making a curious choice and are most likely single.
I know quite a few with that mind set. And they've all been single for years.

I mean WTF?
You don't want to date a person who initially is attracted to your Trans-history.
But you do want to try to date men who when you say:
“I'm a female with a trans history” most likely initially will have zero interest in you.
And even if they date you, after a while your history will likely keep surfacing in their minds.
{Acknowledged the issue about a man being initially attracted to those
parts of you which you are neutral through to despising about yourself
and wanting to change. Deal with it.
Either don't date till your surgery's are all done, or take a chance}

Well I have new for those ts women.
Every single person in the world is initially attracted to something superficial. Be it:
big tits (or small) a hairy back, long blonde hair,
moustache, cute Kylie-like nose, manicured fingernails,
big hairy hands, the smile, the open friendly face,
the scowling hard-man look, the biker gang cut off,
the gucci suit, the rubber all in one body suit,
the style of posting on a forum, coz they train racing pigeons
..... and so on.
If the initial attraction remains focused on just that then it's one or two
dates or a one night stand. If the focus changes to the rest of the person,
then it just may end up a 50 year marriage.

The sexual orientation of a man has zero to do with whether
they see a person as a trans, or strictly as a woman.
That perception changes after a while anyway.
That "hot tranny fuck" becomes the attractive girlfriend / wife.

As you say, trans mean change. In our case huge physical and mental changes.
Which is a huge thing for any partner to deal with.
Understanding this goes a long way to building the base of a solid relationship.
Give n' take....

Escorts. Transition is hugely expensive and often fucks existing careers.
Most men actually don't want a real relationship with us. They won't offer
the companionship, support etc. They just want a novelty shag.
Which are the reasons so many of us turn tricks:
'I'm not gonna get the home, garden, two kids
and lunch with the in-laws, I may as well get what I can.' Which is Coin.

The only thing for us to be aware of is people who want to date us for
ONLY that one night stand. Those people who know their only interest is
in our superficial representation. Basically they want a one-off
or occasional fuck, but are not honest enough to say.
{You never know, we just might be wanting the same with you, ie a casual sex-only engagement. ;)}
But it's all down to two way honesty.
{Most transitioned Ts women have a high bullshit detector always switched on and set to 'High'}
Those that don't, gripe on forums about 'users' and 'dogs' and 'cock hounds'

Bio woman have to make the same judgement calls on amorous first approaches too.
Welcome to Femalehood.


amazingly well stated. Touched on a lot of the things I feel about the situation:iagree:

[Tyler___Durden]

Personally, I look at it like this, if you are trans (great) if you are a genetic female, (great), I care more about who you are rather than what you are. To me, if we click mentally and emotionally the other stuff, is just stuff.

It is why I can date somebody in the "adult industry" because that is their job, not who they are, I would assume that they want to date somebody who likes them for who they are, not what they do make money. Personally, I would hope my next GF (be it Genetic Female or Trans) dates me for who KMersh is a person rather than what I do on a daily basis.

In the same vane, I would not date a transwoman strictly because she is Trans, I would date her because we had common interests, wants, desires, etc. and in my humble that just matters more, than what is below the belt or her chosen career path. FULL STOP!
My partner is similar to yo apart from two things.
He wasn't particularly interested in a relationship or even sex with a Ts, before he met me.
Not even after he met me, for a while, either! :)
He was neutral about escorts to. Just a job so to speak.
But unlikely he could be friends with one or date one.
Purely coz he wouldn't want the potential wide range of issues
that may go along with being in such a relationship.
I was indifferent to dating anyone. Like simply not bothered either way.
We became good friends then an item.
By which point the trans thing was a generally non issue.
Escorting more of an issue. He's very supportive but it's not something he is wildly enthusiastic about. Today he was helping to rig some HT cables on a pylon. {It's one of his trades} I hate him going up those towers. He points out that it's the same for him when I go on an o/c.
But we both accept it's our jobs.
And both pay well enough to give us lots of time together
that more orthodox jobs may not, if not in £/$ then in time away from said job.

Just choices.

[Fancy fancy]

Libby,

Would you date a "civilian" and tolerate if they were having sex with other people, albeit with your full knowledge?




i would date someone but they would have to accept i work in the adult industry with no intentions of leaving it for the forseeable future ... i.e webcamming, camera work , modelling or escorting etc ...

so therefore i would pretty much say that rules out 99% of civilians ...of which would just leave me to find another person the industry as they understand the setup .

[runningdownthatdream]

My partner is similar to yo apart from two things.
He wasn't particularly interested in a relationship or even sex with a Ts, before he met me.
Not even after he met me, for a while, either! :)
He was neutral about escorts to. Just a job so to speak.
But unlikely he could be friends with one or date one.
Purely coz he wouldn't want the potential wide range of issues
that may go along with being in such a relationship.
I was indifferent to dating anyone. Like simply not bothered either way.
We became good friends then an item.
By which point the trans thing was a generally non issue.
Escorting more of an issue. He's very supportive but it's not something he is wildly enthusiastic about. Today he was helping to rig some HT cables on a pylon. {It's one of his trades} I hate him going up those towers. He points out that it's the same for him when I go on an o/c.
But we both accept it's our jobs.
And both pay well enough to give us lots of time together
that more orthodox jobs may not, if not in £/$ then in time away from said job.

Just choices.


I used to think a more sexually open society would be a good thing, but now that we have it, I can see that it just provides validation for misogyny. Leave it to men to fuck up a beautiful thing like real love.

~BB~


Right on..

so you ladies aren't like these ladies:

shut up and fuck betty blowtorch - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6TWVRN9UBc&feature=related)

[Tyler___Durden]

Libby,
Would you date a "civilian" and tolerate if they were having sex with other people, albeit with your full knowledge?
I would totally, yes.
And I say that.
I'm 100% fine and supporting if he wants to do some away recreational shagging.
Thing is, he's just not interested in anyone else.

[kmersh]

My partner is similar to yo apart from two things.
He wasn't particularly interested in a relationship or even sex with a Ts, before he met me.


It is not as much as I am interested in a relationship with a TS (is that the proper abbreviation?), it is just after meeting a few as friends that I began to understand they are women like genetic women, just different plumbing that many get corrected at some point.

Truth be told, I have never had anything other than heterosexual sex and I am not sure I would know exactly what to do, I understand the physics of it but I would probably need some instruction at first.



He was neutral about escorts to. Just a job so to speak.
But unlikely he could be friends with one or date one.
Purely coz he wouldn't want the potential wide range of issues
that may go along with being in such a relationship.


I was chatting with my seatmate on a flight from Los Angeles to New York and the hours just passed by for the both of us. Upon landing I took a risk and asked her to dinner the following evening.

I was shocked when she said yes and we exchanged contact info and went on our merry way. After a fantastic dinner and conversation we kissed good night and she said something that sounded strange at the time, but makes perfect sense when put in context, that she apologized for the early night but she had a prior appointment. I took that as a brush off, but was slightly confused because she initiated the kiss.

When she called me the next day, I was pleasantly surprised and we planned for dinner the following night because she had a commitment that day and did not want to cut the night early again. Well, the rest was history (we both lived in LA at the time) and after going out for about a month, she told me she was an escort and I have to admit at first that I was a little uneasy about the idea at first.

However, I really liked her as a person and I learned that while it not be my choice of profession, I really cannot judge. As her profession is not who she was nor is to this very day (and we are still close friends) and I over time became more comfortable with the idea.

Again, I want to date somebody for who they are not what they are.

K

[BeardedOne]

it is not uncommon if you are into ts, that you end up paying to see one. Question of offer and demand.

But here is the question:
- do you pay because you pay them to leave after having had sex, and you don't desire to have a relationship, same thing if you dated women.

-because you want to see someone different each time?

- or would you prefer something more long term, even if it was a sugar daddy arrangement?


Having never paid for sex I don't know how the other side thinks but I was always of the opinion that most people pay because it is easier that looking for something real and putting yourself in a position to be emotionally hurt. Genuine intimacy scares most people and turning part of that into a business transaction removes some of the open, naked feeling of an actual relationship.

In my case, all of the above.

Longtime readers of my rants and rambles know that I am bi, poly, and have had a rocky 'love' life that's had its share of noisy train wrecks. My commercial relationships have elements of all of the above points:

After my last 'lover' ditched me in 1998 I lost all interest and hope in ever having a lifemate/soulmate or long term relationship. Though I have tended to being a hermit since then, I still crave the human aspect from time to time in everything from conversation to tangles between the sheets. Seriously, my cats are lousy conversationalists and I don't even want to begin to think of what awful bedmates they'd be. Pussy isn't all it's made out to be.

Though I use the common adage of not paying for sex, but paying for them to leave after sex, I'm not always that anxious for them to leave after the festivities have ended. Some of my commercial dates have gone on to late dinners and occasional friendly meetings outside of the business relationship.

Being poly by nature, I've always been open to plural relationships, different partners and, because I am a 'genuine' bisexual and not an 'ersatz bi' (The kind of people that claim to be bi, but are actually deluded straight people that use phrases like "Any hole in a storm"), different genders. Though I've had a number of lovers that were open to poly relationships (Hell, there are conferences that celebrate and study poly lifestyles), human nature comes into play and jealousy rears its many-horned head. Open-end commercial encounters bring a varied math to the intimate relationship.

I confess that I would like to have a more permanent relationship with my partners, but I don't see it happening. If I were truly wealthy, I'd certainly get together with one or more gurls in the long haul. There is one, sweet person that is local to me that I discovered via these forums and that I have seen a few times over the past couple of years that would be high on my wish list. We get on wonderfully, she's met many of my friends, and the 'whoopie' factor is exceptional. :) I help her handle her cell bill so that we can keep in touch and wish I could do more, not just for the commercial trade-off, but also for the fact that I can honestly say that she pretty much saved my life at a rough time and I'd like to return the favor. For the right person/persons I'd be a sugar-daddy, not just for the intimate considerations, but also for how they affect me and how I might actually feel for them.

Lastly, as Quiet Reflections points out, commercial relationships do streamline the process a great deal. I hate the game-playing and the intricate courting dances that develop. I have never mastered the language and am often frustrated by the missteps. I was once asked how many partners/lovers I'd had in my life and I answered "More than one and less than two...hundred" and I've never considered more than a handful 'fleeting'. I'm not enamored of the one-night stand and get very attached to those that I am intimate with (Which can be difficult with commercial relationships). Yet I've never attuned myself to the speech and tactics needed to attain success in a relationship. In my most recent encounter, where the results were already guaranteed by contract, the girl sweetly leaned over and said "Hold my hand, dummy!", because I'm still shy and have contact issues. Go figure.

Sure, the holier-than-thou, studly moralists that 'never have to pay for it', will admonish us for not having 'game', but they have...no...idea. I wouldn't have two hundred names on my holiday card list if I didn't have 'game', but I choose pay-for-play for a number of personal reasons that have little to do with sex-for-money and 'prostitution' and more to do with a simplified lifestyle and some personal issues that cause me to deliberately limit my human interaction.

In the end, the accounting has come out ahead for me. Including dinners, gifts, hotel expenses, and the 'roses', I've spent less in recent years with escorts than I did in earlier years with 'lovers'. I've been happier, spent quality time with exceptional people, enjoyed exotic encounters, and gained some incredible bragging rights (Seriously, how many guys can say that they have professional video of their dates?).

Thank you, nina_lisa, for starting this thread and giving some of us FOGs a chance to tell our side of the commercial date tale.

[NJfan]

i would date someone but they would have to accept i work in the adult industry with no intentions of leaving it for the forseeable future ... i.e webcamming, camera work , modelling or escorting etc ...

so therefore i would pretty much say that rules out 99% of civilians ...of which would just leave me to find another person the industry as they understand the setup .

I could totally date you if you didn't live so far away. And it also depends on what version of BSG you are into. ;) BTW, I used to be an Apple Tech. How is your Mac Book Pro failing?

[kmersh]

In my case, all of the above.

Longtime readers of my rants and rambles know that I am bi, poly, and have had a rocky 'love' life that's had its share of noisy train wrecks. My commercial relationships have elements of all of the above points:

After my last 'lover' ditched me in 1998 I lost all interest and hope in ever having a lifemate/soulmate or long term relationship. Though I have tended to being a hermit since then, I still crave the human aspect from time to time in everything from conversation to tangles between the sheets. Seriously, my cats are lousy conversationalists and I don't even want to begin to think of what awful bedmates they'd be. Pussy isn't all it's made out to be.

Though I use the common adage of not paying for sex, but paying for them to leave after sex, I'm not always that anxious for them to leave after the festivities have ended. Some of my commercial dates have gone on to late dinners and occasional friendly meetings outside of the business relationship.

Being poly by nature, I've always been open to plural relationships, different partners and, because I am a 'genuine' bisexual and not an 'ersatz bi' (The kind of people that claim to be bi, but are actually deluded straight people that use phrases like "Any hole in a storm"), different genders. Though I've had a number of lovers that were open to poly relationships (Hell, there are conferences that celebrate and study poly lifestyles), human nature comes into play and jealousy rears its many-horned head. Open-end commercial encounters bring a varied math to the intimate relationship.

I confess that I would like to have a more permanent relationship with my partners, but I don't see it happening. If I were truly wealthy, I'd certainly get together with one or more gurls in the long haul. There is one, sweet person that is local to me that I discovered via these forums and that I have seen a few times over the past couple of years that would be high on my wish list. We get on wonderfully, she's met many of my friends, and the 'whoopie' factor is exceptional. :) I help her handle her cell bill so that we can keep in touch and wish I could do more, not just for the commercial trade-off, but also for the fact that I can honestly say that she pretty much saved my life at a rough time and I'd like to return the favor. For the right person/persons I'd be a sugar-daddy, not just for the intimate considerations, but also for how they affect me and how I might actually feel for them.

Lastly, as Quiet Reflections points out, commercial relationships do streamline the process a great deal. I hate the game-playing and the intricate courting dances that develop. I have never mastered the language and am often frustrated by the missteps. I was once asked how many partners/lovers I'd had in my life and I answered "More than one and less than two...hundred" and I've never considered more than a handful 'fleeting'. I'm not enamored of the one-night stand and get very attached to those that I am intimate with (Which can be difficult with commercial relationships). Yet I've never attuned myself to the speech and tactics needed to attain success in a relationship. In my most recent encounter, where the results were already guaranteed by contract, the girl sweetly leaned over and said "Hold my hand, dummy!", because I'm still shy and have contact issues. Go figure.

Sure, the holier-than-thou, studly moralists that 'never have to pay for it', will admonish us for not having 'game', but they have...no...idea. I wouldn't have two hundred names on my holiday card list if I didn't have 'game', but I choose pay-for-play for a number of personal reasons that have little to do with sex-for-money and 'prostitution' and more to do with a simplified lifestyle and some personal issues that cause me to deliberately limit my human interaction.

In the end, the accounting has come out ahead for me. Including dinners, gifts, hotel expenses, and the 'roses', I've spent less in recent years with escorts than I did in earlier years with 'lovers'. I've been happier, spent quality time with exceptional people, enjoyed exotic encounters, and gained some incredible bragging rights (Seriously, how many guys can say that they have professional video of their dates?).

Thank you, nina_lisa, for starting this thread and giving some of us FOGs a chance to tell our side of the commercial date tale.

I respect that, but I would add one thing, there is the illegality factor (IMHO it should NOT be illegal) and I can only speak for the USA, but here at least it is illegal to pay for sex.

That illegality factor is enough to scare me away from ever actually going through with it, because the last thing I want is to end up in cuffs. At least in my area, the police are doing what is called "Reversed Stings" they are going after the "Johns" by posing on the internet as escorts, arranging a meeting and then arresting the "John" when the deal is made.

With that potential risk out there, I would rather just do it the old fashioned way and date/etc. as at least I cannot get arrested.

K

[BeardedOne]

I respect that, but I would add one thing, there is the illegality factor (IMHO it should NOT be illegal) and I can only speak for the USA, but here at least it is illegal to pay for sex.

That illegality factor is enough to scare me away from ever actually going through with it, because the last thing I want is to end up in cuffs. At least in my area, the police are doing what is called "Reversed Stings" they are going after the "Johns" by posing on the internet as escorts, arranging a meeting and then arresting the "John" when the deal is made.

With that potential risk out there, I would rather just do it the old fashioned way and date/etc. as at least I cannot get arrested.

K

Yah, it can get interesting. In my case I've only had a couple of encounters where I didn't already have some prior connection with my date. With most I've had some previous communication wherein I got to know them a little better and vice-versey. I already knew who I was meeting and had some rapport with them when we met face to face. Repeat encounters make it all the more personal. It helps that I've typically met them in environments where there were people that I knew around us.

[kmersh]

I used to think a more sexually open society would be a good thing, but now that we have it, I can see that it just provides validation for misogyny. Leave it to men to fuck up a beautiful thing like real love.

~BB~

RANT ON

Ms. Bellucci,

I was re-reading this thread to better understand myself and my fellow human and your post stood out at me as I believe you have justification for your feelings, but I do hope that you have not made your judgements based purely from the internet and this bulletin board in particular.

Love is a beautiful thing, there is no question about it, but and here is where I feel you might have jumped the track (that is if, you have made your judgements strictly based on internet data points) the internet creates a level of noise as I see it and bulletin boards by their nature attract a fairly homogenous user base thus amplifying a certain set of sounds over the balanced real world that is around us.

I would argue that now, more than ever, we are less misogynistic as a greater society, we are far more open than we ever have been before and I believe things are progressing in the right direction.

Maybe I am suffering from naïveté, but I was raised by a very progressive feminist women who taught me that a woman can do anything a man can do, and that in time women will be equals to men in everything they desire to do. My Mother and Grandmother both attended college and graduate school, my Grandmother (in a time when women really did not go much past high school), thus I see society as becoming more progressive and less misogynistic as a whole.

When my Grandmother attended Medical school the male students resented her being there as did the male faculty who felt she was wasting their time as once she found a husband the practice of medicine would fall by the wayside. Contrast that to my Mother who also attended Medical School (almost thirty years later) and felt welcomed by her fellow students and faculty alike, and did not have to fight tooth and nail (like my Grandmother did) to show the males that she was every bit their equal.

Are we there yet? No absolutely not, but I would argue that we are a more open society in all categories (including sexually) and that misogyny (the hatred of women) while still around (it will probably never fully go away) is far less than it ever was before and that is a big accomplishment for all human beings.

Ms. Bellucci I do not know you in any fashion, but I do hope that you realize that the internet and bulletin boards bring together certain sets of people and those certain sets of people create a level of noise and that noise does not represent the entire populous as a whole.

K

RANT OFF