Rodney King found dead in swimming pool

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/rodney-king-dead-swimming-pool-160339712.html

[jaydubb]

Poor Rodney :-(

[fastingforlife]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/rodney-king-dead-swimming-pool-160339712.html

Shortly after the riots, he beat the living crap out of his then wife. Putting her in the hospital with far more serious injuries then he suffered at the hands of the police. Hopefuly, she sued him for some of the $3.8 mil he robbed from the taxpayers.

[lifeisfiction]

I surmise this thead won't end well.

[trish]

Shortly after the riots, he beat the living crap out of his then wife. Putting her in the hospital with far more serious injuries then he suffered at the hands of the police. And therefore the LA police did the right thing after all and his court awarded settlement amounts to robbery. Funny how some people reason.

[Jericho]

Bollox, wrong one...Thought it was Don King, when i saw the title!

[Jericho]

Shortly after the riots, he beat the living crap out of his then wife. Putting her in the hospital with far more serious injuries then he suffered at the hands of the police.

Two wrongs hardly make a right! :shrug

[fastingforlife]

And therefore the LA police did the right thing after all and his court awarded settlement amounts to robbery. Funny how some people reason.

The police did exactly what they were taught to do. Beat large muscle groups on the bodies of unruly and unmanageable criminals until they are to such a weakened state, that they pose no threat. That is why they were acquitted in the first trial. The second trial was pure bullshit.

[fastingforlife]

To be clear, I am no fan of cops. I was mugged over 20 years ago, and the arresting officer, later took a $20,000 bribe to give false testimony against me, allowinmg the perp to go free. I know what the police did by not arresting Zimmerman in Florida, was blatant racisim. And, due to my personal experiences, I wouldn't give a cop the time of day without a lawyer present, but in the Rodney King case, I call it like I see it. And, the police acted appropriately.

[trish]

I hope that in all your future encounters with the police, they behave appropriately.

[fastingforlife]

I hope that in all your future encounters with the police, they behave appropriately.

I anticipate that they will not, that is why I am wary

[broncofan]

Shortly after the riots, he beat the living crap out of his then wife. Putting her in the hospital with far more serious injuries then he suffered at the hands of the police. Hopefuly, she sued him for some of the $3.8 mil he robbed from the taxpayers.
I respect your position and positions generally, but based on what I know about this case (not close to everything), I thought the force was clearly excessive. It's not that I object to police using force, just not more than is necessary to take a criminal into custody. There had to be a better way to get handcuffs on Rodney King than beating the crap out of him with a baton. Now, I was only a kid and haven't revisited the story since, but I remember police video of him getting mercilessly pummelled.

Though this has nothing to do with the merits of Rodney King's case, the riots afterwards were terrifying and there is no possible justification for the anarchy and craziness unleashed on the city after the first verdict.

Also, Trish is right that if he beat his wife, it in no way presents a post hoc justification for his beating. I'm not trying to sound like a defense attorney but it is possible that he suffered brain damage from that beating if it was as I remember it and though not a necessary result, it is possible severe frontal lobe brain damage could predispose someone to act impulsively and violently. Again, I'm not saying that happened in his case, but it is something to think about.

[broncofan]

Shortly after the riots, he beat the living crap out of his then wife. Putting her in the hospital with far more serious injuries then he suffered at the hands of the police. Hopefuly, she sued him for some of the $3.8 mil he robbed from the taxpayers.
Yeah, I looked it up. He suffered a facial fracture from a blow to the face and was hit 56 times with batons. Yes, he kept making futile attempts to get up but he was so groggy and injured he could have had cuffs slapped on him no problem.

[fastingforlife]

I respect your position and positions generally, but based on what I know about this case (not close to everything), I thought the force was clearly excessive. It's not that I object to police using force, just not more than is necessary to take a criminal into custody. There had to be a better way to get handcuffs on Rodney King than beating the crap out of him with a baton. Now, I was only a kid and haven't revisited the story since, but I remember police video of him getting mercilessly pummelled.

Though this has nothing to do with the merits of Rodney King's case, the riots afterwards were terrifying and there is no possible justification for the anarchy and craziness unleashed on the city after the first verdict.

Also, Trish is right that if he beat his wife, it in no way presents a post hoc justification for his beating. I'm not trying to sound like a defense attorney but it is possible that he suffered brain damage from that beating if it was as I remember it and though not a necessary result, it is possible severe frontal lobe brain damage could predispose someone to act impulsively and violently. Again, I'm not saying that happened in his case, but it is something to think about.

King had a very long rap sheet at the time of his arrest. The cops did not beat him on his head or anywhere else that he could have suffered serious injuries. Strictly, buttocks, thighs, upper arms, wherever there is adequate protection. I agree that the tape looks awful, but it is nearly identical to their own training tapes. So if you behave according to the rules, how can you be guilty?

As for King, I always thought his "can we all get along" comment was a moving statement, summing up America and the world then and now.

[fastingforlife]

Yeah, I looked it up. He suffered a facial fracture from a blow to the face and was hit 56 times with batons. Yes, he kept making futile attempts to get up but he was so groggy and injured he could have had cuffs slapped on him no problem.

I would have to look at the tape again to see if the cops "intentionally" hit him in the face, or did he fall on his face. But, the jury went over the evidence in painstaking detail, and found the cops innocent.

[lifeisfiction]

Juries get the cases right only 73% of the time.

[Jericho]

I hope that in all your future encounters with the police, they behave appropriately.

I saw what you did there! :geek:

[broncofan]

King had a very long rap sheet at the time of his arrest. The cops did not beat him on his head or anywhere else that he could have suffered serious injuries. Strictly, buttocks, thighs, upper arms, wherever there is adequate protection. I agree that the tape looks awful, but it is nearly identical to their own training tapes. So if you behave according to the rules, how can you be guilty?

As for King, I always thought his "can we all get along" comment was a moving statement, summing up America and the world then and now.
I hear you. Let me put it this way. I am not trying to belittle juries but they often see things in black and white terms. I don't mean racially, but maybe they think if he was guilty of something or did not react in the way he should have, then he deserves what he gets.

Now I don't know specific police training or procedure but if the point of an apprehension is to get a guy through the legal system, police have a very specific job. They are not there to mete out punishment because a guy doesn't follow instructions or to break someone's will until they listen. And I would assume the ethic is "use the least amount of force necessary". Maybe they are taught to hit someone with batons in specific places when they pose a threat, but again, not when they sort of make futile, if illogical attempts to do something.

I don't know, I think the beating was excessive but I'll admit it's not always so clear cut and maybe the police weren't breaking so radically with what they were taught. I understand the counterarguments but think they apply more in the abstract than in the specific situation these cops were presented with.

[broncofan]

Fastingforlife,
Also, let me say. Just because I think Rodney King was the victim of police brutality doesn't mean I think he was a good guy, a guy minding his own business, a hero, a symbol of nonviolence, or a man of peace. But one doesn't have to be to be a victim of a specific bad act. I can see how people would be annoyed if his story is used more broadly than it should be.

[fastingforlife]

Yeah, I looked it up. He suffered a facial fracture from a blow to the face and was hit 56 times with batons. Yes, he kept making futile attempts to get up but he was so groggy and injured he could have had cuffs slapped on him no problem.

I would have to look at the tape again to see if the cops "intentionally" hit him in the face, or did he fall on his face. But, the jury went over the evidence in painstaking detail, and found the cops innocent.

[Token Williams-Black]

Dqmmit...I KNEW this thread would come to this. #SMH...

[Ben]

Rodney King's death apparently accidental - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzMnXDiELJ8)

[Ben]

I would have to look at the tape again to see if the cops "intentionally" hit him in the face, or did he fall on his face. But, the jury went over the evidence in painstaking detail, and found the cops innocent.

Rodney King - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGKRSQCvBfM)

[Token Williams-Black]

I would have to look at the tape again to see if the cops "intentionally" hit him in the face, or did he fall on his face. But, the jury went over the evidence in painstaking detail, and found the cops innocent.
As if four armed policeman couldn't apprehend an unarmed man without hitting him over 50 times. What a crock of bullshit.

And the only reason they moved that trial to Simi Valley (in a different county than the incident) is because they KNEW that jury wouldn't convict them.

"With liberty and justice for all." *coughbullshitcough*

[MdR Dave]

Juries get the cases right only 73% of the time.

85% of statistics are fabricated.

[hard4janira]

What's funny to me is that the media still refer to him as a 'motorist'.... like he was going out for a Sunday drive on that fatefull night.

I think we can all agree that the police never ended up beating any sense into him. What an underachiever.

[fastingforlife]

What's funny to me is that the media still refer to him as a 'motorist'.... like he was going out for a Sunday drive on that fatefull night.

I think we can all agree that the police never ended up beating any sense into him. What an underachiever.

There he was, minding his own business, driving his grandmother home from bingo....then wham, out of nowhere the cops swooped down on him like navy seals! If the media could get away with it, they would re-write the story to make Mr. King into the second comming.

[trish]

It's "coming" you stupid twit, "second coming."

[Token Williams-Black]

No one said he was a saint (none of us are). He still didn't deserve to be beaten like that.

[fastingforlife]

It's "coming" you stupid twit, "second coming."

Listen asshole, you no longer have my permission to comment on my comments....you scumbag fuck.

[Quiet Reflections]

meh.

[trish]

Listen asshole, you no longer have my permission to comment on my comments....you scumbag fuck.
Gee, and I only called you a twit for being a total jerk.

[top4bigbutt]

r.i.p.

[Jericho]

Gee, and I only called you a twit for being a total jerk.

I hope you had permission to post that! :nervous:

[Cecil Rhodes]

Drowned ? I guess he never heard of a certain slang term or he would not have gotten into the pool .

[irvin66]

hmm ... He had probably forgotten that he could not swim.:geek:

[Quinn]

At least he died playing into racial stereotypes about the ability to swim. :hide-1:On a more serious note, yes, he was a complete tool. Yes, the police were excessive in their use of force (IMO). No, their actions didn't even begin to justify the riots, and, yes, his death at the age of 47 is unfortunate because it precludes the possibility of growing beyond his destructive nature.
-Quinn

[Prospero]

I have no idea if it is true that Mr King beat the shit out of his wife. However that isn't the point. The issue here is the principal - not the person. Here was an ordinary black guy beaten by the police without justification. His later abuses (or not) of his life would signal him as a pretty unpleasant person. But that does NOT justify the police attacking him. Indeed even a person suspected of murder should not be beaten up - but merely arrested.

[Stavros]

At the beginning of May King gave an interview to The Guardian promoting a book; on his own evidence his life was ruined by alcohol abuse, he was drunk the night he was arrested and beaten, drunk when he beat his wife. Maybe the core issue should be the causes of alcohol abuse, as well as its consequences. In King's case, there seems to have been a deep reservoir of rage that found expression in drinking and violent behaviour. That he could have been arrested without all that beating is not so hard to work out, as was posted earlier.

The article also claims that Los Angeles is not as violent a place as it once was, that policing has improved and 'community' relations with it, but I have no idea if this is true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/01/rodney-king-learn-to-forgive?INTCMP=SRCH

[buttslinger]

In defense of the cops, black and white, they're trained to go home after a shift, not the hospital. They don't consider their job a sporting event, like the Indy 500 or Professional Boxing. High speed car chases kill lots of cops and perps and innocent victims. And if you even put your finger on a cop uniform, you're gonna get dropped like third period french. No hesitation. Automatic. Normally, King would have been told to get out of the car, drop to the ground, and then get cuffed. I don't know what happened. I have a collapsable baton in my sock drawer. You never hit anyone on the head, Never.

[Queens Guy]

I was up watching CNN when the first 'breaking news' of the Rodney King arrest came in. There were 2 versions of the tape. The complete version and then the edited version. The complete version was what I saw that night and what the jury saw at the trial. The edited version was what was replayed ad infinitum by the news and what most people saw.

As background, on the night of the arrest, Rodney King had been convicted of Robbery and was Driving While Intoxicated with 3 other friends when the police first tried to pull him over. He was on parole and worried that the DWI arrest would send him back to prison as a violation of his parole. He didn't stop and there was a 10 to 15 minute pursuit. Several of the LA area agencies were involved. CHP started the pursuit, with LAPD and other agencies joining in.

The start of the tape shows the 2 passengers in the back of the car being ordered out of the car, ordered to lie on the floor, cross their legs, etc. and handcuffed without any incident. The tape then shows Rodney getting out of the car and disobeying police orders. He faces the police instead of turning his back to them and walking backwards as ordered, and as the other 2 passengers did. He puffs his chest out, so to speak, throws his arms up and is, generally speaking, a nasty drunk looking for a fight. Since he was aggressive and ignoring lawful orders, a taser was fired at him. The taser had no effect on him. The police then tried to tackle him, each one going for a particular arm or leg. Rodney was able to fight off the tackle and started swinging, striking one of the officers. So, after the less forceful or violent methods were used, the batons came out. As another poster said, they went for his large muscles. One good blow to the head would have knocked Rodney out immediately. But, they weren't swinging for his head. Rodney never just stopped, he never gave up and just lied down and let himself get cuffed. He kept trying to fight.

That's where the edited version of the tape that's become the 'history' of the incident starts. Just Rodney on the ground, being hit over and over again for what seems like no good reason at all.

If you search the web enough, you can find the unedited version and see for yourself.

Maybe Rodney didn't need to have been hit so many times, but if the unedited version, which is what the jury saw, and what I saw when the story was 'breaking', was what the media decided to show to the public, I don't think there would have been such a disconnect, such a feeling of injustice, and such a violent aftermath which led to the death of 55 people.

[fastingforlife]

I hope you had permission to post that! :nervous:

No permission granted

[lovesall]

Well as in the words of Rodney King "Can't we get along".

[Token Williams-Black]

Well as in the words of Rodney King "Can't we get along".
In the words of reality "Never can; never will."

[onmyknees]

Listen asshole, you no longer have my permission to comment on my comments....you scumbag fuck.

well that's a tad harsh !! ....maybe you weren't aware that Trish has always been right, is currently still always right, and will always be right....and should you not see it that way, well then consider the "twit" thing an early warning...it'll get worse. and btw for the record...I've caught her in a few spelling mistakes, so we know that she's at least human, and therefore by nature.............fallible. And I spell checked this just to be sure !

[onmyknees]

Back to the topic....Never really thought RK was all that bad a guy...or wanted all the fallout...but he should have stayed down when told to do so. He's smart enough to know that. The odds did not favor a good outcome. Sure he had some scrapes with the law...but who hasn't? I heard his neighbor interviewed today on the radio...said Rodney used to bring him barbeque since he lived alone and said Rodney was a decent guy. Thought maybe the dude could have been Dino.

[trish]

No permission grantedIt was a reply, not a comment...permission not required.

[trish]

well that's a tad harsh !! ....maybe you weren't aware that Trish has always been right, is currently still always right, and will always be right....and should you not see it that way, well then consider the "twit" thing an early warning...it'll get worse. and btw for the record...I've caught her in a few spelling mistakes, so we know that she's at least human, and therefore by nature.............fallible. And I spell checked this just to be sure !
Did you check a grammar text to see if one ellipsis may follow another back to back?

[SUPPLY42]

Can't we all just float?

[Lovecox]

Couldn't the water in his pool and his lungs "just get along"?

[broncofan]

That's where the edited version of the tape that's become the 'history' of the incident starts. Just Rodney on the ground, being hit over and over again for what seems like no good reason at all.

What you described as preceding this doesn't justify the "edited" portion that outraged people. It did not just appear to be for no good reason but was for no good reason as he is not supposed to be hit when he's no longer a threat. I understand that you're providing context, but it looks quite bad if there is tape of a person on the ground being beaten when the police's job is to apprehend criminals, not punish them.

[Token Williams-Black]

If four + armed cops can't apprehend one man, something is wrong.

[broncofan]

Queens Guy,
I just watched the tape posted on the third page. It pretty much speaks for itself. He was hit about ten times for every twitch of a muscle. I thought maybe this was something worth arguing over but after watching that I realize that those who are not convinced the force was excessive never will be.

[buttslinger]

It's funny, because every time I see an episode of "COPS" the police are always so nice......

[TSLoverIB]

Yes we know he was beat to death.

[giovanni_hotel]

Before the King incident, LA cops had a nasty rep for beating the shit out of Black men on general principle. There was never such a thing as a 'second request' from LA officers for a citizen to comply with their orders.

White people up until this point thought that Black people complaining about routine police brutality at the hands of LAPD was another urban myth.
THe Rodney King attempted murder blew the lid off LA police brutality.
A lesser man would have damn near been killed with the beating they gave RK.
Still to this day, that's one of the worst beatings I've ever seen.

It's bizarre to me that anyone would attempt to put that beating into 'context'.

[fastingforlife]

Did Mr. King have any broken bones? Any internal organ damage? Any missing teeth? How much time did he spend in the hospital? How many months was in in physical therapy...."for the worst beating any man on earth has ever endured?" The only thing the police did was try to subdue him according to protocol. Now the beating that Mr. King gave his then wife, shortly after the riots...that was a first rate ass whooping.

[Token Williams-Black]

King was taken to Pacifica Hospital immediately after his arrest. He suffered a fractured facial bone, a broken right ankle, and numerous bruises and lacerations. In a negligence claim filed with the city, King alleged he had suffered "11 skull fractures, permanent brain damage, broken [bones and teeth], kidney damage [and] emotional and physical trauma."

[fastingforlife]

If four + armed cops can't apprehend one man, something is wrong.

Do you have the slightest idea how strong a six foot three, 250 lb, black man is? Do you ever wonder why they dominate every physically demanding sport? They are unstoppable. Then, when you jack them up on alcohol and drugs, they could probably throw around 8 to 10 white men like they were stuffed animals. Four+ armed cops means nothing to these guys. They must be properly subdued, before you bring them back to the precinct, or all hell is going to breakout. I know of cases, where they have bitten off cops noses, while handcuffed. Dealing with these "supermen" is not for the weak of heart or stomach.

[fastingforlife]

King was taken to Pacifica Hospital immediately after his arrest. He suffered a fractured facial bone, a broken right ankle, and numerous bruises and lacerations. In a negligence claim filed with the city, King alleged he had suffered "11 skull fractures, permanent brain damage, broken [bones and teeth], kidney damage [and] emotional and physical trauma."

Bullshit. The average 16 year old kid is roughed up more, playing football on a Saturday afternoon.

[Queens Guy]

If four + armed cops can't apprehend one man, something is wrong.

I don't understand why people say 'armed' cops as if being 'armed' is magical in some way. It's not like they're trying to arrest Superman and the guns on their hips are kryptonite.

Would you have preferred that the cops just shot him? Because that's the only way that being 'armed' would have made any difference.

[giovanni_hotel]

Do you have the slightest idea how strong a six foot three, 250 lb, black man is? Do you ever wonder why they dominate every physically demanding sport? They are unstoppable. Then, when you jack them up on alcohol and drugs, they could probably throw around 8 to 10 white men like they were stuffed animals. Four+ armed cops means nothing to these guys. They must be properly subdued, before you bring them back to the precinct, or all hell is going to breakout. I know of cases, where they have bitten off cops noses, while handcuffed. Dealing with these "supermen" is not for the weak of heart or stomach.

LOL. You have an inferiority complex.
The problem is most cops are afraid to mix it up in hand to hand fighting. I've seen one bouncer choke the fuck out of man who was at least 20-40# heavier and 5 inches taller than he was. Too many chickenshit dudes are the ones who wanna be police officers.

If those four cops had coordinated their assault and two of them took King's legs and the other two held down his upper body, they could have subdued him without all the drama.

[fastingforlife]

LOL. You have an inferiority complex.
The problem is most cops are afraid to mix it up in hand to hand fighting. I've seen one bouncer choke the fuck out of man who was at least 20-40# heavier and 5 inches taller than he was. Too many chickenshit dudes are the ones who wanna be police officers.

If those four cops had coordinated their assault and two of them took King's legs and the other two held down his upper body, they could have subdued him without all the drama.

How do propose that a 5'4" 120 lb female cop deal with an uncooperative Mr. King?

[fastingforlife]

LOL. You have an inferiority complex.
The problem is most cops are afraid to mix it up in hand to hand fighting. I've seen one bouncer choke the fuck out of man who was at least 20-40# heavier and 5 inches taller than he was. Too many chickenshit dudes are the ones who wanna be police officers.

If those four cops had coordinated their assault and two of them took King's legs and the other two held down his upper body, they could have subdued him without all the drama.

Whatever you want to call it, but I see black guys every day in Newark, who could probably knock out all my teeth (except my molars) with one punch. Fists that are more than double mine, and at 6'2" mine aren't small. And, they are getting bigger and stronger, with every new generation. I would not be a "beat" cop, if they paid me $500k, and I could retire with full pay in 10 years. Being a cop is a thankless job, with a risk level that is totally unacceptable.

[Token Williams-Black]

I don't understand why people say 'armed' cops as if being 'armed' is magical in some way. It's not like they're trying to arrest Superman and the guns on their hips are kryptonite.

Would you have preferred that the cops just shot him? Because that's the only way that being 'armed' would have made any difference.

Let me rephrase that then. A group of ten-plus cops couldn't apprehend one man? I'll admit the baton should have been used...but not 56 times. Nor should he have been kicked at all, let alone six times.

[Luvs T Gyrls]

We had The Malice Green case here in Detroit,Two cops Larry Nevers and Walter Budzyn who were white beat him to death with flashlights in fall of '92 after a traffic stop,it was alleged that he died from chronic cocaine use, the photos showed otherwise,pretty brutal
They were found guilty a few yrs later and did some time in federal prison.
No riots,some outrage just another day in the D,that is all.

[Token Williams-Black]

I would think 50+ blows from a blunt object would cause some kind of damage somewhere on the body.

Also, I do have an idea how strong a six foot three, 250 lb, black man is; my cousin is one. I also have an idea about how strong a group of ten-plus (male) cops can be collectively.

They beat that man because they thought they'd get away with it, plain and simple.

[fastingforlife]

I would think 50+ blows from a blunt object would cause some kind of damage somewhere on the body.

Also, I do have an idea how strong a six foot three, 250 lb, black man is; my cousin is one. I also have an idea about how strong a group of ten-plus (male) cops can be collectively.

They beat that man because they thought they'd get away with it, plain and simple.

I believe if there was never a videotape, Mr. King would have turned his life around in due order. Be alive today, leading a productive life in anonymity. There were no winners in this case.

[hard4janira]

Rodney King, useless piece of shit. Who fucking cares?

They should have given him 20 more lashes for good measure.

[hard4janira]

Being a cop is a thankless job, with a risk level that is totally unacceptable.

What he said.

[Quinn]

Also, I do have an idea how strong a six foot three, 250 lb, black man is; my cousin is one. I also have an idea about how strong a group of ten-plus (male) cops can be collectively.

They beat that man because they thought they'd get away with it, plain and simple.


When I was in the army, I saw a white kid who was maybe 5'11 and 175 pounds -- his nickname was "Spankey" of all things -- cut through a room full of guys like they were butter in order to get at another soldier who was talking shit about him. He lacked King's size, had a lean non-muscular build, and was nowhere near the level of formal hand-to-hand training the rest of us had.

To this day, I' never seen anything like it. At the time, I was benching more than twice my body weight, curling more than I weighed, fast as hell, and had years of boxing as well as MMA experience (well before it was popular). It didn't matter, I couldn't stop him, and neither could any of the other guys -- many of whom were considerably tougher than I was.

My point -- and it's not necessarily meant to be exculpatory for the LAPD -- is this: You can never look at a guy and say X number of people should be able to handle him with certainty. The guys I was in the barracks with that night were almost certainly tougher than the cops who beat King, and we couldn't stop Spankey from getting at "Ault" (who deserved the beating by the way). Some people can take one hell of a beating and just keep coming to the point where it almost superhuman. I guess maybe it's something a person has to experience firsthand to understand.

-Quinn

[buttslinger]

You never know what personal demons people have to deal with.

[fastingforlife]

When I was in the army, I saw a white kid who was maybe 5'11 and 175 pounds -- his nickname was "Spankey" of all things -- cut through a room full of guys like they were butter in order to get at another soldier who was talking shit about him. He lacked King's size, had a lean non-muscular build, and was nowhere near the level of formal hand-to-hand training the rest of us had.

To this day, I' never seen anything like it. At the time, I was benching more than twice my body weight, curling more than I weighed, fast as hell, and had years of boxing as well as MMA experience (well before it was popular). It didn't matter, I couldn't stop him, and neither could any of the other guys -- many of whom were considerably tougher than I was.

My point -- and it's not necessarily meant to be exculpatory for the LAPD -- is this: You can never look at a guy and say X number of people should be able to handle him with certainty. The guys I was in the barracks with that night were almost certainly tougher than the cops who beat King, and we couldn't stop Spankey from getting at "Ault" (who deserved the beating by the way). Some people can take one hell of a beating and just keep coming to the point where it almost superhuman. I guess maybe it's something a person has to experience firsthand to understand.

-Quinn

Back in the 1970's, a family member of mine, who happened to be a cop in NYC, was called to a fight in City Island during some Puerto Rican event. A guy by the name of Aponte, a 5'6" 175 lb 35 year old man was throwing people around in a drunken bezerk rage. My family member in trying to subdue him, broke his billy club on Aponte's head, and Aponte broke my family member's arm. It took a number of cops to finally get him under control, and not one cop left without some injury to their person. So I agree, size isn't everything. But, there are some big black dudes that I see here in Newark, that I sure wouldn't want to get angry at me. I don't want to end up like dust on the road.

[trish]

It goes both ways. What is possible and happened in one circumstance isn't what happens in every circumstance. I saw a video once of a bunch of dudes raising clubs high over their heads and bringing them down on one prostate victim, bashing his body and head alike and sending him to the hospital. Wait, that was infamous Rodney King video.

[trish]

Correction, see I do admit to mistakes AND correct them.
It goes both ways. What is possible and happened in one circumstance isn't what happens in every circumstance. I saw a video once of a bunch of dudes raising clubs high over their heads and bringing them down on one prostrate victim, bashing his body and head alike and sending him to the hospital. Wait, that was infamous Rodney King video.:)

[Quinn]

Correction, see I do admit to mistakes AND correct them. :)


My own post contained far too many grammatical/typing errors to even bother. Maybe taking part in a heated teleconference while posting on a forum isn't conducive to proper spelling after all. Who would have guessed?

-Quinn

[trish]

Auto-correct is a huge hazard as well. It's screwed me more than it saved me. :)

[fastingforlife]

The same media that unveiled the Rodney King tape, knowing how that it could cause an entire city to burn, has chosen not to release the Obama tape because it is too incindery and damaging. Had they released the tape of Obama attending a dinner honoring among other things, a Palestinian terrorist, there was no way he would have been elected President in 2008.

[giovanni_hotel]

You think Americans really care about the Palestinian conflicts and who the good/bad guys are??
No one prevented Faux News from releasing the tape, if there is such a thing.

[fastingforlife]

You think Americans really care about the Palestinian conflicts and who the good/bad guys are??
No one prevented Faux News from releasing the tape, if there is such a thing.

I think the LA Times has it under lock and key. It apparently shows the true measure of the man, and he comes up wanting.

[broncofan]

When I was in the army, I saw a white kid who was maybe 5'11 and 175 pounds -- his nickname was "Spankey" of all things -- cut through a room full of guys like they were butter in order to get at another soldier who was talking shit about him. He lacked King's size, had a lean non-muscular build, and was nowhere near the level of formal hand-to-hand training the rest of us had.

To this day, I' never seen anything like it. At the time, I was benching more than twice my body weight, curling more than I weighed, fast as hell, and had years of boxing as well as MMA experience (well before it was popular). It didn't matter, I couldn't stop him, and neither could any of the other guys -- many of whom were considerably tougher than I was.

My point -- and it's not necessarily meant to be exculpatory for the LAPD -- is this: You can never look at a guy and say X number of people should be able to handle him with certainty. The guys I was in the barracks with that night were almost certainly tougher than the cops who beat King, and we couldn't stop Spankey from getting at "Ault" (who deserved the beating by the way). Some people can take one hell of a beating and just keep coming to the point where it almost superhuman. I guess maybe it's something a person has to experience firsthand to understand.

-Quinn
Fair enough, but it doesn't call for a blanket policy of hitting people with clubs until they are completely still. Not everyone is going to resist like that and you have to periodicially try to cuff the guy. If you look at the pictures of him after the beating (face swollen and deformed-looking on one side), I bet you anything two or three guys could have subdued him and cuffed him after the first few shots with a knightstick. But it was all or nothing. He may have been resisting at the start, but what he did after the first couple of shots was much less than that.

I'm not saying police officers have to wait and feel out the exact amount of force they can use but they can't grossly overestimate for the sake of their own safety. I say that realizing it's a thankless and dangerous job they have.

[miner]

What if the police after pulling King's car to the curb and speaking to him realized that he, King was not going to cooperate with them; and the police just left the scene and let King be? Would there have been unintended consequences?

[broncofan]

What if the police after pulling King's car to the curb and speaking to him realized that he, King was not going to cooperate with them; and the police just left the scene and let King be? Would there have been unintended consequences?
This is the exact error I think a lot of people make. There are literally a million ways the situation could have been handled. This is not a good one.

But the biggest unintended consequence would be that the officers would not have been prosecuted, the city would not have been sued, and L.A would not have burned. Not to exculpate the arsonists, as I am talking in causal terms only.

[Queens Guy]

You think Americans really care about the Palestinian conflicts and who the good/bad guys are??
No one prevented Faux News from releasing the tape, if there is such a thing.

There is indeed such a tape. And The L.A. Times is preventing ANYBODY from releasing the tape. (They say if they release the video, they would burn their source. Which may be true. One could figure out where the camera was located, which could lead back to their source.)

But, the L.A. Times is also refusing to release a transcript of the audio portion of the tape. No transcript of the speeches. Nothing. They say they reported on it. You'll have to take the L.A. Times word on how they interpreted it. They won't report. You can't decide. Because they won't let you read it for yourself.

Unlike broadcast networks, newspapers do endorse political candidates. The L.A. Times endorsed Obama and chose not to report what may have been 'bad news' about Obama.

So, who is the 'Faux' news service in this case?


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-video29-2008oct29,0,7568849.story

[tiramisu]

i thought its roodney moore