Looks like in US this is someting normal

[tsadriana]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/several-shot-killed-california-school-reports-183024015.html?nc

[GrimFusion]

This isn't "something normal" anywhere, but it's obviously much more prevalent in countries that allow their citizens to own and use guns. I know you English think that Americans would likely be far more proper and civilized if we were to relinquish our constitution's second amendment, abolished gun sales, and confiscated our citizen's firearms, but that opinion shows a clear naivety of American history and culture. It's also impossible. Our inner-city streets are gorged with firearms and drugs, and our back-woods yokels keep cabinets full of boom-sticks... and everclear. Fuck yes.

Point is, Americans would sooner conceal and secure than turn-in or turn-over their firearms. It's part of what makes us American, and unfortunately is also the precursor of events like school shootings, senseless murder, violent crimes, and morose gang activity. Is our second amendment more important than the lives of 31,000 people a year? That's not considering the 67,000 injured in non-life threatening injuries. Yeah. Yes, our second amendment is more important. We're about the only country who's citizens can defend against modern warfare. With the exception of Canada, we're the last country anybody would want to invade. It's not like Canada has better guns. They're just lame.

You've only got a 1 in 9985 chance of being shot and killed in America, and I'd say that's pretty good. Remember 1812? You guys aren't setting foot over here again; that's for durn diddlytootin' sure.

[robertlouis]

This isn't "something normal" anywhere, but it's obviously much more prevalent in countries that allow their citizens to own and use guns. I know you English think that Americans would likely be far more proper and civilized if we were to relinquish our constitution's second amendment, abolished gun sales, and confiscated our citizen's firearms, but that opinion shows a clear naivety of American history and culture. It's also impossible. Our inner-city streets are gorged with firearms and drugs, and our back-woods yokels keep cabinets full of boom-sticks... and everclear. Fuck yes.

Point is, Americans would sooner conceal and secure than turn-in or turn-over their firearms. It's part of what makes us American, and unfortunately is also the precursor of events like school shootings, senseless murder, violent crimes, and morose gang activity. Is our second amendment more important than the lives of 31,000 people a year? That's not considering the 67,000 injured in non-life threatening injuries. Yeah. Yes, our second amendment is more important. We're about the only country who's citizens can defend against modern warfare. With the exception of Canada, we're the last country anybody would want to invade. It's not like Canada has better guns. They're just lame.

You've only got a 1 in 9985 chance of being shot and killed in America, and I'd say that's pretty good. Remember 1812? You guys aren't setting foot over here again; that's for durn diddlytootin' sure.

Great post. :Bowdown:

Tongue firmly in cheek, but good points well made.

[SEXY TS JESS]

Thoughts ?

http://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY

http://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY

[GrimFusion]

Well, I should have added that I'm not just a heartless ass; my thoughts and concerns go out to the families involved. It's gotta be hell losing a child and I certainly don't want anyone I know to become the next one in 31,000. I think our public school systems really need to stop bickering over this stupid "creationism" versus Darwinism debate and start teaching firearm safety and avoidance as a requirement in communities affected by high rates of gun violence.

Guns or no guns, kids will still be flipping the hell out in school; whether because of depression, abuse, drug use, or medication alteration, every few years there will still be some kid caught stabbing or strangling other children. That's just not as news worthy as 13 slain in a mass school shooting. There would still be violence in our streets and people killing other people. It'd just happen in brawls at bars and during robberies and burglaries... kinda like in the U.K.; where 1,100,000 people are involved in violent crimes a year.

If you live in the U.K., you have a one in 54 chance of being involved in a violent crime. We're not talking about shootings here, so I have to admit that here in America, we have to put up with one in 231 odds. I know, that sounds weird. Trust me, I was kinda scratching my head too, but it seems to check out.

[bruce_willy]

If you live in the U.K., you have a one in 54 chance of being involved in a violent crime. We're not talking about shootings here,


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120557/Thusha-Kamaleswaran-shooting-Why-gunmen-bars.html

[SammiValentine]

If you live in the U.K., you have a one in 54 chance of being involved in a violent crime. We're not talking about shootings here, so I have to admit that here in America, we have to put up with one in 231 odds. I know, that sounds weird. Trust me, I was kinda scratching my head too, but it seems to check out.

Makes sense here. I would guess we sound like such "badboys" due to population densitiy, I expect we are much higher up in those stakes and this is reflected in stats, seems logical, then again fuck knows. Or maybe we are just so damn bloody british and ever so efficient at recording crime. haha maybe not.

Whatever we both got lots of problems thats for sure.

[GrimFusion]

Thoughts ?

http://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY

http://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY

I'm not really the best person to be offering my thoughts on the topic because I'm an atheist, but I'ma do it anyway. In the bible, Jesus announced himself as the son of God. No longer were his opinions just the opinions of a man but the infallible truth of God. A God of a religion that already existed. I don't understand how that doesn't qualify as at least furthering religion.

In the very beginning of the video he says "Jesus came to abolish religion". Jesus didn't come to abolish religion and the bible doesn't say that anywhere. The bible does say that Jesus hates pride and hypocrisy, but pride and hypocrisy have little to do with religion and much more to do with some religious people.

The very title of the video is misleading. It should be "Jesus hates self-righteousness", not "Jesus hates religion". This kid isn't talking about every church member, just the ass holes who don't learn from their mistakes and continue throwin' C's to the chest e'ry Sunday. lol. Problem is, he's pretty self-righteous himself when you consider that his poem generalizes and attacks most Christian church members.

[GrimFusion]

Makes sense here. I would guess we sound like such "badboys" due to population density, I expect we are much higher up in those stakes and this is reflected in stats, seems logical, then again fuck knows. Or maybe we are just so damn bloody British and ever so efficient at recording crime. haha maybe not.

Whatever we both got lots of problems that's for sure.

Nah, it is the population density come to think of it. You're smart... or maybe it's just your accent. :shrug

[EvonRose]

I find europe to be more advanced in terms of civil liberties and control, America lacks that. We were also known to be financially more advanced, But i can see that's about to go downhill, once the country loses money, possibly can lose power. Please we need a new president ASAP!

[SammiValentine]

Nah, it is the population density come to think of it. You're smart... or maybe it's just your accent. :shrug

haha safe moneys on the accent ;-)

[Prospero]

I find europe to be more advanced in terms of civil liberties and control, America lacks that. We were also known to be financially more advanced, But i can see that's about to go downhill, once the country loses money, possibly can lose power. Please we need a new president ASAP!

Except the UK is on the verge of introducing a law which will allow our secret service (MI5) and the Police the right to read all and any emails sent, to log every visit any citizen makes to a website and to overlook all and any postings we make to forums (such as this) and others such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc.... now in terms of civil liberties that is a hugely backward step.

A new president, Evon? The Republican field are all idiots or worse (Santorum) and will lead America out of its brief economic recovery into a much, much worse recession.

[SammiValentine]

Except the UK is on the verge of introducing a law which will allow our secret service (MI5) and the Police the right to read all and any emails sent, to log every visit any citizen makes to a website and to overlook all and any postings we make to forums (such as this) and others such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc.... now in terms of civil liberties that is a hugely backward step.


haha, thats a law to make what they already do "legal"

[Prospero]

You're probably right Sammi

[Tika]

Yes, our second amendment is more important. We're about the only country who's citizens can defend against modern warfare. With the exception of Canada, we're the last country anybody would want to invade.

Right, because handguns, shotguns and rifles do such a great job against airplanes, ships and subs. You lot couldn't organize half a dozen Q-tips in a box, let alone armed resistance against a military invasion - IF it was just citizens with their guns versus an invading force. Red Dawn was a movie, not a documentary. Also, you might want to remember that just owning a gun doesn't confer the ability to use it at all well or under circumstances beyond shooting an unarmed 17-year old. :loser:

[MrsKellyPierce]

Everyone blames the president - instead of the congress - and themselves

If we would stop electing the same assholes in congress we may get somewhere...

[loren]

Everyone blames the president - instead of the congress - and themselves

If we would stop electing the same assholes in congress we may get somewhere...
Great point, too many times people don't do any reasearch into a canididate. They simply vote for a party. I've often heard it said, "People get the government they deserve."

An excerpt form the film V for Vendetta:
Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you,

V for Vendetta Speech - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY)

[giovanni_hotel]

THe fact is it's harder to get a job at McDonalds than it is to buy a gun in the U.S.

All the Mexican cartels that have turned our Southern neighbor into a narco-state buy their heavy artillery from American gun dealers.
There's a segment of this country that has an abnormal attachment to firearms. I'm cool with handguns for personal protection, and rifles and shotguns for hunting.

But semi-automatic or heavy caliber rifles etc. that are typically used for mass kills or live combat, someone please explain to me why the NRA is against a ban on the sale of these weapons??

[loren]

But semi-automatic or heavy caliber rifles etc. that are typically used for mass kills or live combat, someone please explain to me why the NRA is against a ban on the sale of these weapons??
What kind of firearms should I be allowed to have?

[giovanni_hotel]

What kind of firearms should I be allowed to have?


Handgun. Preferably no high than .38 caliber. I'm cool with that.

Rifles certified for domestic game hunting.

You should also be forced to submit to rigorous background vetting.

Who do people think are selling guns to criminals??:yayo:

[loren]

Handgun. Preferably no high than .38 caliber. I'm cool with that.

Rifles certified for domestic game hunting.

You should also be forced to submit to rigorous background vetting.

Who do people think are selling guns to criminals??:yayo:For starters, I do go through Federal background checks whenever I buy a firearm.

I guess that I should turn in my .40 and my .44s and my .45s. How do you certify a rifle for domestic hunting?

A number firearms that are found in the hands of street gangs and drug cartels come from the military and/or government.

[tsadriana]

Apologies for a small mistake to this thread ,i forgot to put the ? after "Looks like in US this is someting normal" it happens sometimes to everyone.apologies again .

[yodajazz]

...
we're the last country anybody would want to invade.

I believe this also. But that's why I could see through that hype, that Iraq or Saddam Hussein, was a real threat to the US. So the reality was that the invasion was about dominance and control of others. This was counter to the very principles on which this nation was founded. Yet some talk about this nation having 'Christian values', and use gay marriage as the supreme moral issue of today.

Another note for this discussion, here in Ohio they have proposed a law that would make it legal to carry firearms in bars and other places where alchohol is consumed. The person carrying the firearm is not supposed to drink. I dont see that as a positive step.

[pimpdog]

THe fact is it's harder to get a job at McDonalds than it is to buy a gun in the U.S.

All the Mexican cartels that have turned our Southern neighbor into a narco-state buy their heavy artillery from American gun dealers.
There's a segment of this country that has an abnormal attachment to firearms. I'm cool with handguns for personal protection, and rifles and shotguns for hunting.

But semi-automatic or heavy caliber rifles etc. that are typically used for mass kills or live combat, someone please explain to me why the NRA is against a ban on the sale of these weapons??
Your wrong, a cartels do not get there fully automatic weapons, stripping law abiding people from owning guns, will just make a society where police and criminals are the only ones armed, fuck that.

[Jamie French]

The criminal is going to find a way to get the fully automatics whether they are legal or not, so why take the edge away from the responsible, law abiding citizen by making them illegal? Why punish the good guy if the bad guy is going to break the law and get the big scary guns anyhow?

[GrimFusion]

Right, because handguns, shotguns and rifles do such a great job against airplanes, ships and subs. You lot couldn't organize half a dozen Q-tips in a box, let alone armed resistance against a military invasion - IF it was just citizens with their guns versus an invading force. Red Dawn was a movie, not a documentary. Also, you might want to remember that just owning a gun doesn't confer the ability to use it at all well or under circumstances beyond shooting an unarmed 17-year old. :loser:

You're kinda dull upstairs, man. Of course we're not going to use handguns and rifles against airplanes, ships, and subs. That's why we have our own airplanes, ships, subs, surface-to-air, and anti-ship missiles. I was specifically talking about ground troop invasion and you understood that, so quit trolling.

Your assumptions that Americans are unskilled, unorganized, and unintelligent are absolutely unfounded. It's super-neat that you're capable of developing your own opinions, but not when they lack basis.

You were right about one thing, though. Red Dawn is a movie. Yup.

[GrimFusion]

The criminal is going to find a way to get the fully automatics whether they are legal or not, so why take the edge away from the responsible, law abiding citizen by making them illegal? Why punish the good guy if the bad guy is going to break the law and get the big scary guns anyhow?

Absolutely. That may not have been the case if Americans never had second amendment rights, or if gun rights were removed before firearms saturated organized crime, but now that the guns are out there it can already be assumed that only honest, law-abiding people would turn their firearms in voluntarily and that would give criminals the clear advantage.

[onmyknees]

Normal ? Baby there's nothing normal about this or any similar incident. RL took his usual swipe at this yesterday and I let it slide..... It's not unique to the US by any stretch, but I'll admit it tragically happens far more than it should. . If there was an HA some years ago and I posted a link of an IRA bombing in London, one could reasonably assume that it was "normal" as well. You Britts have a longer history than us Yanks, some of you just chose to ignore it sometimes....as much as I love you !

Any social scientist would probably affirm that we're more prone to violence than Britts, but I wonder if there isn't just as many nut jobs there per capita but since firearms are outlawed they can't inflict as much carnage.
Grim is absolutely correct in his assessment.... Americans will never turn over their firearms. I understand that's incomprehensible to you all, but then again you're not us, and probably will never fully understand that.
Guys like RL would like to remake us into British subjects judging by some of his comments. All I have to do is listen to Piers Morgan for 2 minutes, and I know why there was a Declaration of Independence ! lol :dancing:

[pimpdog]

Id like it alot of more sexy petite ladies learn how to use, and start carrying a firearm, a few rapist/attackers getting shot in the face, would make there sick asses think twice.

[AcadiaVeneer]

Id like it alot of more sexy petite ladies learn how to use, and start carrying a firearm, a few rapist/attackers getting shot in the face, would make there sick asses think twice.

You can't carry guns in school legally. I hate guns... more guns means more opportunity for kids and crazy people to get their hands on them.

[robertlouis]

Normal ? Baby there's nothing normal about this or any similar incident. RL took his usual swipe at this yesterday and I let it slide..... It's not unique to the US by any stretch, but I'll admit it tragically happens far more than it should. . If there was an HA some years ago and I posted a link of an IRA bombing in London, one could reasonably assume that it was "normal" as well. You Britts have a longer history than us Yanks, some of you just chose to ignore it sometimes....as much as I love you !

Any social scientist would probably affirm that we're more prone to violence than Britts, but I wonder if there isn't just as many nut jobs there per capita but since firearms are outlawed they can't inflict as much carnage.
Grim is absolutely correct in his assessment.... Americans will never turn over their firearms. I understand that's incomprehensible to you all, but then again you're not us, and probably will never fully understand that.
Guys like RL would like to remake us into British subjects judging by some of his comments. All I have to do is listen to Piers Morgan for 2 minutes, and I know why there was a Declaration of Independence ! lol :dancing:

I never claimed that this atrocity was in any way "normal". To refresh your partisan and highly fallible memory, this is what I actually said:

"As reports come through of another college campus massacre in California, isn't it about time that gun possession laws should be reviewed if only to try and prevent casual access to firearms by people who, sadly with hindsight, should never be allowed near them? "

That's right, I was simply wondering whether recent gun crimes shouldn't prompt a review of the apparently easy access to firearms of people who are not psychologically equipped for the responsibility of wielding them. Is that in any way contentious or unreasonable? Or is your stance that the right to bear arms is so centrally sacrosanct that any nutjob should be free to carry a gun?

I also fully understand and accept that any attempt to separate Americans from their guns would not work. As our Canadian friend pointed out on the parallel thread, the US was founded by the gun. So, we agree. OK?

As for the IRA, please explain how an organised terrorist campaign (largely financed by misty-eyed Americans of Irish descent, by the way) is in any way comparable to the random executions by deranged individuals of innocents in schools and on college campuses.

And your cheap jibes do your cause no service. On both sides of the Atlantic you're no more than the pathetic mouthpiece for some outmoded right-wing shockjocks.

[zulusierra]

All the Mexican cartels that have turned our Southern neighbor into a narco-state buy their heavy artillery from American gun dealers.


Sorry, try again.

The Mexican cartels get their weapons from the American government.
We supply Mexico's armed forces and police with American weapons. The corrupt Generals and politicians turn a blind eye or actively aid the cartels in "acquiring" these military weapons. The Zetas are all government trained with funding from American taxpayers.

What they don't supply, the ATF is more than happy to. Look up operation "Gunrunner".

[bobvela]

You can't carry guns in school legally.

That would depend on the type of school and the state.

In most states a law-abiding citizen who can legally cary a consealed weapon can also do so on a college campus without breaking the law... the issue comes in for when that law-abiding citizen happens to be a student there... then they can be expelled for violating school rules (except for in six states).


I hate guns... more guns means more opportunity for kids and crazy people to get their hands on them.

Such a mentality has also no doubt prevented the spread of crack, meth, heroin, marijuana, LSD, PCP and countless other illegal substances.

You can try to ban something all you want... but in the end those who are the least likely to obey the law in the first place are the most likely to still get what they want.

[Prospero]

OnMyKnees wrote: "Any social scientist would probably affirm that we're more prone to violence than Britts, but I wonder if there isn't just as many nut jobs there per capita but since firearms are outlawed they can't inflict as much carnage. "

I'd agree with that - which is exactly why control of guns is so vital. Every society has dangerous people - look at the guy in Norway who went on a shooting spree last summer. In the UK there are far fewer school massacres and the like precisely because we do have a rigorous control on easy access to weaponry. Gangs will surely obtain weapons and use them but maniacs like the man who killed the kids in California this week and countless other such killings find it much harder to find guns in the UK. And little kids don't tend to borrow daddy's shooter to "accidentally" kill their brothers or sisters in the UK. because most homes don't have guns in the cupboard.

Yes - the chances of overcoming the immense lobbying power of the NRA in the US are next to nil. That's not something to be proud off. It's a madness in the American constitution.

Oh - and don't think that Piers Morgan is typical of anything. We're glad to be rid of him.

[LordRectum1]

I sorely dislike that condescending dickhead Piers Morgan and I wish he would go back to the U.K. Oh, just got my ATF form 1 approved a month ago.


"Proud to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights"

[zulusierra]

I sorely dislike that condescending dickhead Piers Morgan and I wish he would go back to the U.K. Oh, just got my ATF form 1 approved a month ago.


"Proud to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights"

You're a stamp collector too?

SBR?
I got my most recent stamp back and built an 8" 300 BLK.

I try to put a form in every so often, especially now that the wait is ~6 months.

[irvin66]

Yeah those crazy Americans, it must be many mentally sick people over there. It's not the first time this shit happens either, and I am afraid it is not the last time we see someone who does such sick things......:hide-1:

[Prospero]

Piers Morgan. Sorry we really don't want him. He's all yours. And if not maybe send him to ... erm.... Russia?

[Stavros]

We are not immune to gun crime committed by men who have toppled over the edge -for example, in January this year a man called Michael Atherton shot his family and then himself, and this after the police had taken his guns away from him a few years earlier when he was making threats to kill people -and then gave them back to him when they decided he was 'normal' again...In 2011 a taxi driver called Derek Bird shot his brother dead and went on a shooting spree in the Lake District -again, a man who was known to have a volatile personality but nevertheless had a license to carry firearms. In 2008 a man called Christopher Foster shot his wife and daughter and his dogs and horses and burned down his farm then shot himself -he had gone bankrupt -yet he had also at one time threatened to kill people but had not had his guns taken away.

On top of all this are the gangs for whom the gun is a sexy addition to their wardrobe as well as being the lethal weapon of choice for those who have 'made it' while the rest slum it out with knives.

But consider Switzerland, where gun ownership is as normal as it is in the USA, 80% of homicide-suicide is caused by a gun, and no I don't think its from boredom...

There was a fascinating radio programme the BBC a while ago on 'family annihilation' the transcript of 19 pages is here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/06_03_12_fo4_familyannihilation.pdf

[maxpower]

Yeah those crazy Americans, it must be many mentally sick people over there. It's not the first time this shit happens either, and I am afraid it is not the last time we see someone who does such sick things......:hide-1:


Oh really? This guy doesn't ring a bell for you? What a short memory you have.

[LatinLover]

this man is fucking crazy

[irvin66]

Oh really? This guy doesn't ring a bell for you? What a short memory you have.

Oh well shit happens everywhere, but he is not completely normal in the head! Besides, it will not happen any more times I hope. :confused:

[Dino Velvet]

I'm American. I own 14 guns. I'm a nice fella.

[irvin66]

I am Norwegian and I own 15 guns, and I'm a good guy!:dancing:

[irvin66]

I'm American. I own 14 guns. I'm a nice fella.
Can you mention what kind of guns you have? :geek:

[Dino Velvet]

Can you mention what kind of guns you have? :geek:

Combinations of assault weapons, semi autos/revolvers, 2 shotguns
Bought ammo in high quantities years ago(no ID) now kept in storage for a rainy day.

[zulusierra]

Can you mention what kind of guns you have? :geek:

If this is going to be a sharing/showing thread, I'm in.:grouphug

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss300/zulusierra/ginz/015-1.jpg

8" 300 Blackout (Noveske Barrel)

I'm actually quite surprised that historically oppressed groups aren't more pro-gun.

Kinda hard to bash someone that can defend themselves.

I've got moar kool stuff as well, but I'm rushed for time.

[Dino Velvet]

If this is going to be a sharing/showing thread, I'm in.:grouphug

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss300/zulusierra/ginz/015-1.jpg

8" 300 Blackout (Noveske Barrel)

I'm actually quite surprised that historically oppressed groups aren't more pro-gun.

Kinda hard to bash someone that can defend themselves.

I've got moar kool stuff as well, but I'm rushed for time.

That's a lot nicer than my vanilla Armalite M15.:cheers:

http://www.gunlistings.org/uploads/1_rifles_armalite_m15_a2_44705.jpg

[robertlouis]

Jeezus.

A thread about another campus massacre becomes an opportunity for people to show off their arsenals. Sometimes this place is way beyond parody. SMDH.

[giovanni_hotel]

I'm actually quite surprised that historically oppressed groups aren't more pro-gun.

Kinda hard to bash someone that can defend themselves.




LOL. We tried. Really.

http://reason.com/assets/db/13244806068417.jpghttp://woodpilereport.com/photos/black-panthers-seattle-1969-armed-on-capitol-steps.jpg


Cops don't like it when Black folk go around flaunting their Constitutional 'right' to self defense.

THe REAL Black Panthers were like the minority version of the Tea Party.
Except the Feds initiated a program to assassinate and imprison the BPP leaders during the late 1960s and '70s.

Live Free or Die.

Uncle Sam chose kill.

[zulusierra]

Jeezus.

A thread about another campus massacre becomes an opportunity for people to show off their arsenals. Sometimes this place is way beyond parody. SMDH.

And you would defend your family/self how? By calling the police?
If you choose to be defenseless prey at the mercy of others then so be it. A weapon is a tool; nothing more, nothing less.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -Freud

[zulusierra]

Cops don't like it when Black folk go around flaunting their Constitutional 'right' to self defense.

THe REAL Black Panthers were like the minority version of the Tea Party.
Except the Feds initiated a program to assassinate and imprison the BPP leaders during the late 1960s and '70s.

Live Free or Die.

Uncle Sam chose kill.

Yep.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 was a direct response to the civil rights movement. We can't have black men able to fight back in order to defend their rights, now can we? And having to get a "permit" from the local law enforcement to carry a weapon? That was so they could skirt around the civil rights laws without having to actually be honest and say "blacks can't have guns".

Pretty much all American gun and drug laws are racial in origin and were never meant to apply to middle class whites in practice.

As a white man married to a black woman (in the south) I see the ignorance on all sides. It is disappointing.

[robertlouis]

And you would defend your family/self how? By calling the police?
If you choose to be defenseless prey at the mercy of others then so be it. A weapon is a tool; nothing more, nothing less.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -Freud

We've been over the differences between the US and the UK on this subject countless times, and like most debates where the starting ground is fundamentally different, there's unlikely to be shared understanding, far let alone agreement.

But it does sadden me to think that in the US the first response to any threat, major or minor, seems to be ultimate and potentially lethal force.

[zulusierra]

We've been over the differences between the US and the UK on this subject countless times, and like most debates where the starting ground is fundamentally different, there's unlikely to be shared understanding, far let alone agreement.

But it does sadden me to think that in the US the first response to any threat, major or minor, seems to be ultimate and potentially lethal force.

I respect that the UK has a different philosophy on defense law, and having never lived there can't comment on how well it works. One place that has strong gun control that works is Japan. I lived there for a year and never felt the need to be armed. You can walk around the city late at night alone and not have to worry for your safety.

The US is a different story. It's just not realistic. Sometimes I feel like Europeans look down their noses with a false sense of superiority on Americans and our culture without a proper understanding of life in the US (especially the south).

I agree that it may seem that many Americans resort to deadly force too readily. That is probably true in some of our more troubled cities (DC, Chicago, Baltimore). My concealed carry weapon's purpose is to allow me to flee a bad situation and call law enforcement. That being said, if you break in my home the safety of my family comes first. I am not going to retreat in my home. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.:shrug

The Zimmerman guy was an idiot. Unfortunately, if the truth is somewhere in the middle of both sides (as it usually is), so was Trayvon. Two dumbasses crossed paths, made a series of poor decisions, and a tragedy ensued.:sad: