At a Crossroads

[Erika1487]

On the eve of my weight class being cancelled for my fight, I have been thinking maybe I have been wrong about this toughman competition. The issue being, not whether or not I should fight, but whether I was taking a completely wrong track to begin with.

On the one hand…

What I have not talked about publicly, is that three weeks ago I tried to get my amateur boxing license though USA Boxing and was told no, I am not allowed to compete as female due to ABIA and IOC regulations. However I was contacted Sunday by the director of membership services, and there may still be chance that I could be licensed. I could potentially get licensed as female, but with the caveat that I fight male fighters only.
After I found out my weight class was cancelled this morning, I contacted them back and let them know I was still interested. I was told that the Executive director of USA Boxing is going to review my case and make a decision in the next few weeks. If approved I could become the first, licensed transsexual amateur boxer in American History.
My licensure, would create a precedent for other trans folk to follow into the boxing ring.
At my age 32, it would probably mean that I would spend the rest of my productive sporting years, fighting amateurs, and having to compete with men, my own weight class.
I could potentially be competing in Golden Glove tournaments, State and National championships, if I am successful in the ring.
If I decide to go this route I can never compete in toughman contests without being disbarred. (USA Boxing regulations forbid fighting in toughman contests)
Had my scheduled fight been held this Friday I would have lost the opportunity to get licensed.

On the other hand…

Toughman contests have much more relaxed regulations that allow me to fight in the women’s division, it allows me to earn income, and allow me to gain “amateur boxing experience’ without being licensed by USA Boxing. It would be able to give me more leeway in who I chose to fight, plus it gives me a faster track to a professional boxing license. The major drawbacks are the sheer lack of actual ‘qualified boxers’ competing, and dealing with shady promoters who have suspect business practices. If I fight in my next scheduled toughman, I would lose my amateur status. (in the eyes of USA Boxing)

Finally, Let me state that I do want to compete in boxing

Right now my heart leans more towards USA boxing, but my mind tells me that if I take that route, I would have to stop taking T-blockers to be competitive, thus hampering my transition. If I go the toughman route, I am taking an ‘easier road’ into boxing and would not be using my boxing skills to all it’s ability.
I am really torn on which way I should go, any advice would be appreciated.

Sincerely

Erika

[bte]

Why do you feel the need to compete in boxing and toughman contests? Is it just the need of competition?

[AmyDaly]

Here are my feelings, and please don't take this personal as it is nothing against you at all, but what I think is that it is a bad idea for you to be the person to set a precedent for how transsexual boxers are handled. The reason being is that you are a pretty large transsexual woman who has transitioned pretty late in life.

For a transsexual that has transitioned in her early teens to early twenties, testosterone will have had a much smaller permanent effect on them and will most likely have the same muscle mass as a genetic female for the most part. So by being forced to fight men because a precedent has been set already by someone such as yourself, they will be at a large disadvantage. And yes, they can run hormone level tests to make sure the athlete is taking hormones and at the levels of a genetic female. This is why I feel that a large late transitioner and former football player is most likely the worst example to set a precedent for transsexual women in the future. Hopefully they would do it on a case by case basis.

Again, its nothing personal against you.

[Jericho]

I can't imagine a TS wanting to box.
Cut up eyes, broken noses...Yeah, great look! :shrug

[yodajazz]

Here are my feelings, and please don't take this personal as it is nothing against you at all, but what I think is that it is a bad idea for you to be the person to set a precedent for how transsexual boxers are handled. The reason being is that you are a pretty large transsexual woman who has transitioned pretty late in life.

For a transsexual that has transitioned in her early teens to early twenties, testosterone will have had a much smaller permanent effect on them and will most likely have the same muscle mass as a genetic female for the most part. So by being forced to fight men because a precedent has been set already by someone such as yourself, they will be at a large disadvantage. And yes, they can run hormone level tests to make sure the athlete is taking hormones and at the levels of a genetic female. This is why I feel that a large late transitioner and former football player is most likely the worst example to set a precedent for transsexual women in the future. Hopefully they would do it on a case by case basis.

Again, its nothing personal against you.

I like this answer. I do understand that everyone should have the right to follow their own path. However I do associate, Toughman and boxing with masculine expression.

[Tobe]

Here are my feelings, and please don't take this personal as it is nothing against you at all, but what I think is that it is a bad idea for you to be the person to set a precedent for how transsexual boxers are handled. The reason being is that you are a pretty large transsexual woman who has transitioned pretty late in life.

For a transsexual that has transitioned in her early teens to early twenties, testosterone will have had a much smaller permanent effect on them and will most likely have the same muscle mass as a genetic female for the most part. So by being forced to fight men because a precedent has been set already by someone such as yourself, they will be at a large disadvantage. And yes, they can run hormone level tests to make sure the athlete is taking hormones and at the levels of a genetic female. This is why I feel that a large late transitioner and former football player is most likely the worst example to set a precedent for transsexual women in the future. Hopefully they would do it on a case by case basis.

Again, its nothing personal against you.

Yeah, by the late 20s/early 30s maximal bone mass is achieved and years of testosterone exposure promote the development of increased muscle mass that is not lost instantaneously.

Overall, this is a huge gray area... fighting in the women's circuit would place you at an unfair advantage since it would be akin to a woman taking androgens for years and then competing. Fighting in the men's circuit while on estrogens and anti-androgens would place you at an unfair disadvantage for the opposite reasons.

[Prospero]

I can't imagine why any intelligent human - male, female or transgendered - would want to box. Stupid villent sport. We should have grown out of this by now.

[RallyCola]

I can't understand why this is another thread from an attention whore.

This has been discussed to death yet you are still looking for validation here or anywhere else you post. Sadly, no one can validate your efforts if you yourself are doubting it.

You have also posted your answer in your alternatives. Toughman contests are an easy road to make some cash and gain experience by beating up on genetic women that you have an advantage over. To compete in USA Boxing, you would have to stop your transition....that is your fucking answer to why its not right that you do ANY of this. Think about it.

[wendy48088]

Erika:

I have not posted in a while - I don't follow this forum like I used to - on to other boring things like work and doing other stuff living life but happened to come across your post here while checking out the HA forum and felt I just had to respond.

(As you can see from my profile picture I am not a pretty girl, and age wise I am 56 years old).

If you have to take T-Blockers then you have not had an Orchi or SRS yet. So you are a "pre-op" TS (as I am). Unfortunately if you still have a penis you are considered a male - no matter if you have boobs, a feminine face, etc.

I can tell you that in any Martial Arts competition that I know of if you are pre-op you are considered a male and have to use the men's facilities.

I am a student of the Martial Arts (Karate mostly) and I train and spar with males and females. I do not fight professionally but have been informed that if I enter a tournament it will be in the men's division.

Please also keep in mind that there are genetic women who would scream sex discrimination and sex harassment if they had to share a locker room / directly compete with a pre-op TS.

It is what it is.

As for myself, I make the best of it - I don't get negative and I try to be upbeat and casual about it and maintain a good sense of humor. I also try to use it as an opportunity to educate people.

Picture of me from a few years ago. Just get off the bench and do what you have to do. The more of us out there the more things may change some day so that one day in the future the younger transitioners won't have to fight such a battle...

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/picture.php?albumid=811&pictureid=5231

[Erika1487]

Here are my feelings, and please don't take this personal as it is nothing against you at all, but what I think is that it is a bad idea for you to be the person to set a precedent for how transsexual boxers are handled. The reason being is that you are a pretty large transsexual woman who has transitioned pretty late in life.

For a transsexual that has transitioned in her early teens to early twenties, testosterone will have had a much smaller permanent effect on them and will most likely have the same muscle mass as a genetic female for the most part. So by being forced to fight men because a precedent has been set already by someone such as yourself, they will be at a large disadvantage. And yes, they can run hormone level tests to make sure the athlete is taking hormones and at the levels of a genetic female. This is why I feel that a large late transitioner and former football player is most likely the worst example to set a precedent for transsexual women in the future. Hopefully they would do it on a case by case basis.

Again, its nothing personal against you.


Amy I understand where your coming from, and no I do not take it personal.

What I was told is that all Pre-op ts are not allowed to compete against females, and if I wanted a license, that I would have to compete against men. That being said, they have to license me as female, and mark my license in such a way that I am only allowed to fight men in the ring.
I am worried that by being the potential first “Pre-Op trans-boxer’ licensed in America, that I am unprepared to deal with the media and my own trans community about trans-related issues. I am not well versed in the trans, culture as most of the girls here, due to the fact of not having one in southeastern Ohio.
I may not be the best example of what a transsexual woman should be, but I am however a decent boxer and with my size can compete against men my own weight class. (super heavyweight) I tend to have conservative views and won’t ‘rock the boat’ when it comes to dealing with the conservative nature of the boxing establishment.

Mind you All of this is pending approval, USA Boxing should render a decision on my licensure in a couple weeks.

[Erika1487]

I can't imagine a TS wanting to box.
Cut up eyes, broken noses...Yeah, great look! :shrug


I can't imagine why any intelligent human - male, female or transgendered - would want to box. Stupid villent sport. We should have grown out of this by now.

Boxing is a brutal sport and if you have seen my picture lately a few scars here and there will just add to my charm ;)


Why do you feel the need to compete in boxing and toughman contests? Is it just the need of competition?

I want to compete in the sport of boxing, not the easist sport to gain entry to, but it is rewarding in it own way.

[Erika1487]

Erika:

I have not posted in a while - I don't follow this forum like I used to - on to other boring things like work and doing other stuff living life but happened to come across your post here while checking out the HA forum and felt I just had to respond.

(As you can see from my profile picture I am not a pretty girl, and age wise I am 56 years old).

If you have to take T-Blockers then you have not had an Orchi or SRS yet. So you are a "pre-op" TS (as I am). Unfortunately if you still have a penis you are considered a male - no matter if you have boobs, a feminine face, etc.

I can tell you that in any Martial Arts competition that I know of if you are pre-op you are considered a male and have to use the men's facilities.

I am a student of the Martial Arts (Karate mostly) and I train and spar with males and females. I do not fight professionally but have been informed that if I enter a tournament it will be in the men's division.

Please also keep in mind that there are genetic women who would scream sex discrimination and sex harassment if they had to share a locker room / directly compete with a pre-op TS.

It is what it is.

As for myself, I make the best of it - I don't get negative and I try to be upbeat and casual about it and maintain a good sense of humor. I also try to use it as an opportunity to educate people.

Picture of me from a few years ago. Just get off the bench and do what you have to do. The more of us out there the more things may change some day so that one day in the future the younger transitioners won't have to fight such a battle...

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/picture.php?albumid=811&pictureid=5231

Wendy thank you for your post. It is refreshing to see a fellow trans-girl with an intrest in the combat sports:)

The more of us out there the more things may change some day so that one day in the future the younger transitioners won't have to fight such a battle...
I agree with this 100%!
That is why it is important for more of us as trans-women to become active in sports to show the world we are strong and proud of who we are.

[JohnnyVee]

Actually my first thoughts about the subject had nothing to do with the societal aspects.

I used to enjoy the sport of boxing, but seeing Ali, Foreman, Leonard later in life changed my perspective.

With the advancement of science and more to the point, the better understanding of neurology, it's becoming clear today that even small head blows can have profound after-effects later in life. Not only in boxing, but seeing it in ex-football players, etc.

Does this give you pause?

[Erika1487]

Actually my first thoughts about the subject had nothing to do with the societal aspects.

I used to enjoy the sport of boxing, but seeing Ali, Foreman, Leonard later in life changed my perspective.

With the advancement of science and more to the point, the better understanding of neurology, it's becoming clear today that even small head blows can have profound after-effects later in life. Not only in boxing, but seeing it in ex-football players, etc.

Does this give you pause?

Well Johnny, did you know I played football? I was a fullback/nosetackle and had three concussions by the time I was 18. I understand the dangers of boxing and accept them. I have know doubt, that later in life, I will have many neurological issues due to head injury. It does give me pause, but if you want to compete in violent sports you have make sacrifices...

[dogsandcats]

On the eve of my weight class being cancelled for my fight, I have been thinking maybe I have been wrong about this toughman competition. The issue being, not whether or not I should fight, but whether I was taking a completely wrong track to begin with.

On the one hand…

What I have not talked about publicly, is that three weeks ago I tried to get my amateur boxing license though USA Boxing and was told no, I am not allowed to compete as female due to ABIA and IOC regulations. However I was contacted Sunday by the director of membership services, and there may still be chance that I could be licensed. I could potentially get licensed as female, but with the caveat that I fight male fighters only.
After I found out my weight class was cancelled this morning, I contacted them back and let them know I was still interested. I was told that the Executive director of USA Boxing is going to review my case and make a decision in the next few weeks. If approved I could become the first, licensed transsexual amateur boxer in American History.
My licensure, would create a precedent for other trans folk to follow into the boxing ring.
At my age 32, it would probably mean that I would spend the rest of my productive sporting years, fighting amateurs, and having to compete with men, my own weight class.
I could potentially be competing in Golden Glove tournaments, State and National championships, if I am successful in the ring.
If I decide to go this route I can never compete in toughman contests without being disbarred. (USA Boxing regulations forbid fighting in toughman contests)
Had my scheduled fight been held this Friday I would have lost the opportunity to get licensed.

On the other hand…

Toughman contests have much more relaxed regulations that allow me to fight in the women’s division, it allows me to earn income, and allow me to gain “amateur boxing experience’ without being licensed by USA Boxing. It would be able to give me more leeway in who I chose to fight, plus it gives me a faster track to a professional boxing license. The major drawbacks are the sheer lack of actual ‘qualified boxers’ competing, and dealing with shady promoters who have suspect business practices. If I fight in my next scheduled toughman, I would lose my amateur status. (in the eyes of USA Boxing)

Finally, Let me state that I do want to compete in boxing

Right now my heart leans more towards USA boxing, but my mind tells me that if I take that route, I would have to stop taking T-blockers to be competitive, thus hampering my transition. If I go the toughman route, I am taking an ‘easier road’ into boxing and would not be using my boxing skills to all it’s ability.
I am really torn on which way I should go, any advice would be appreciated.

Sincerely

Erika

Are you serious?? You would seriously want to compete against women?

Not trying to be completely rude, but are you trolling or just deluded? Nong Toom was on female hormones when she was fighting men if I remember correctly. You are 32 and want to become a professional woman's boxer after being on T-blockers for less than a year....wtf??

[onmyknees]

I think Amy's advice is spot on....she's becomming the sage of HA...and so young ...lol


I don't necessarily have an opinion of the physicality of it...I just don't think it advances your journey from where you are....to where you want to get.

[RallyCola]

like i said...it is irrelevant what we say because this attention whore is dead set on hitting ggirls in the face...just looking for some validation

[slingblade]

Here are my feelings, and please don't take this personal as it is nothing against you at all, but what I think is that it is a bad idea for you to be the person to set a precedent for how transsexual boxers are handled. The reason being is that you are a pretty large transsexual woman who has transitioned pretty late in life.

For a transsexual that has transitioned in her early teens to early twenties, testosterone will have had a much smaller permanent effect on them and will most likely have the same muscle mass as a genetic female for the most part. So by being forced to fight men because a precedent has been set already by someone such as yourself, they will be at a large disadvantage. And yes, they can run hormone level tests to make sure the athlete is taking hormones and at the levels of a genetic female. This is why I feel that a large late transitioner and former football player is most likely the worst example to set a precedent for transsexual women in the future. Hopefully they would do it on a case by case basis.

Again, its nothing personal against you.

i agree and she sounds like a freak show to me

[loveboof]

No way should you be fighting girls! Totally unfair imo...

I don't really care if that is insensitive either. Think about it; you'd be a male super heavyweight class!

(There are plenty of tough girls out there who could probably beat seven shades out of you - but from a sporting perspective it would not be an even contest)

[Erika1487]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIgue-ZdeBk
Well my fight in Toledo was cancelled last night! I am now awaiting USA Boxing's decision on my licensure....Hopefully I can fight in the Tri-State Golden Gloves in Ashland Ky March 30th (fingers crossed)

[dakota87]

Take up bullfighting. Olay!

[Erika1487]

Take up bullfighting. Olay!

At this point, if USA Boxing gives me my license, I will fight a Grizzly bear holding a railroad tie! I am more than disapointed about my frist two fights being cancelled, Knock on wood and fingers crossed that I can fight in the March 30th Golden Gloves event!