VP Cheney shooting birds

[flabbybody]

I'm sure many of us had a laugh about our vice prez accidently spraying his buddy's face with buck shot.

here's my question. what is the fun or challenge for a guy to take a shot gun and go into the woods and shoot innocent animals? are these guys just old and incapable of mounting their woman anymore? Does blowing a liitle bird's head off make them get off?

please. someone explain to me the attraction of hunting.

[Kramer]

Too bad Dick doesnt hunt with Teddy Kennedy, eh? :lol:

[Legend]

Why don't those good ole boys try hunting something that can attack back like a bear or crocodile instead of shooting small defensive birds. People like ted nugent make me sick they kill for the sake of killing not for survival.

[Kramer]

actually im against hunting too. :(

[Kramer]

ugly fucking liberals! :lol:

[DD Philly]

Now I know why Cheney got those 5 deferments...bad shot!

Seriously though, could you imagine if that poor bastard was critically injured or even worse killed. What a fucking disgrace!

[robbie]

I am no fan of the VP, and I find the idea of hunting for sport revolting. (Even though I am a republican - a very, very lonely republican these days in the middle of the road, but still republican nonetheless).

That said, hunting is legal in this country like it or not. And hunting accidents happen even with the most experienced hunters.

So sure, let's have some fun at the VP's expense - the jokes come so easily - but let's back off the comments like "what a fucking disgrace" on this particular incident (truth is, if it had been worse it would've been a tragedy) and save the vitriol for for the truly bad shit the man does. He'll give us plenty of other real opportunities, I'm sure.

[Texass_Guy]

http://www.angelfire.com/al/southpark1/images/Hunting.wav

[Canucklehead]

I read in the paper today that he didn't have proper hunting tags, so he was breaking the law.

Go figure

[BeardedOne]

And now the guy has a heart attack while recovering. I think Dick is truly fucked. :)

BTW, they did say "quail" and not "Quayle", didn't they? :lol:

[Jamie Michelle]

Why don't those good ole boys try hunting something that can attack back like a bear or crocodile instead of shooting small defensive birds. People like ted nugent make me sick they kill for the sake of killing not for survival.


what the hell is a defensive bird? how exactly does a bear or a croc attack back when u have a rifle? and who kills for survivel? swiss family robinson?


We all kill for survival. It's just that most do it by proxy.

[The American Nightmare]

Why don't those good ole boys try hunting something that can attack back like a bear or crocodile instead of shooting small defensive birds. People like ted nugent make me sick they kill for the sake of killing not for survival.


what the hell is a defensive bird? how exactly does a bear or a croc attack back when u have a rifle? and who kills for survivel? swiss family robinson?


We all kill for survival. It's just that most do it by proxy.
Who forgot to lock the kennel?

[Jamie Michelle]

Why don't those good ole boys try hunting something that can attack back like a bear or crocodile instead of shooting small defensive birds. People like ted nugent make me sick they kill for the sake of killing not for survival.


what the hell is a defensive bird? how exactly does a bear or a croc attack back when u have a rifle? and who kills for survivel? swiss family robinson?


We all kill for survival. It's just that most do it by proxy.
Who forgot to lock the kennel?

Apparently dog-meat is popular in Korea, so you're not alone in the practice. I, myself, have never sampled it.

[chefmike]

I was going to mention something about how nice it would have been if perhaps the dick would have traveled with a larger "hunting" party...and maybe mention some other neo-con chickenhawks that the dick might have invited...

...and that it's too bad that he didn't drop a grenade or two, instead of spraying buckshot...

but I won't...

[Quinn]

Why don't those good ole boys try hunting something that can attack back like a bear or crocodile instead of shooting small defensive birds. People like ted nugent make me sick they kill for the sake of killing not for survival.

Sheer genius – or not. Let's see, where should I begin?

1) Crocodiles? Why not just say “dragons” or something stupid like that?

2) Defensive birds? What in the hell is that, a bird with a poor self-esteem?

3) Ted Nugent? You do realize that he doesn't kill anything that he doesn't eat, which is no different than when you or I eat steak, chicken, fish, or any other meat. You can include milk byproducts in that category, too, because milk cows are slaughtered once they stop producing milk.

Once again, try not to be so amazingly stupid when you look for bandwagons to jump on.

-Quinn

[Realgirls4me]

Well, like I read in another forum, maybe those five deferments he received when his service was called on during the Vietnam War era saved some American lives. What a moron.

I've also never seen what the "sport" is that is involved when firing on a deer from 400 yards away with a high powered rifle.


... The only Republican -- if she is Republican -- worth her salt is Janine Turner. All the rest pictured are has-beens. Dingy Ann Coulter is attractive to you ??? Funny how Kramer conveniently left out all the women artists who identify themselves as either Liberal or Democrat.

[Legend]

More insults from you two,im not surprised.

[chefmike]

Perhaps it was a case of -

The Gun and the Bottle...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/the-gun-and-the-bottle_b_15679.html

Was Cheney Drunk?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/was-cheney-drunk_b_15646.html

[chefmike]

And Now, the Pukey Taste After the Snarf-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/and-now-the-pukey-taste-_b_15680.html

[chefmike]

Play the Dick "the dick" Cheney Quail Hunt Game!!

It's even more fun when you're drunk...just ask the dick!!

http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

[Felicia Katt]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

[Legend]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Thanks FK im glad you understood what i was saying,i will never understand hunting and frankly i dont wont to understand it either.Hunting these days are strictly for sport and not survival. The guy who cheney shot suffer i heart attack hopefully he is ok, but there is a reason why he didnt relay this news to the media.

[Jamie Michelle]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Thanks FK im glad you understood what i was saying,i will never understand hunting and frankly i dont wont to understand it either.Hunting these days are strictly for sport and not survival. The guy who cheney shot suffer i heart attack hopefully he is ok, but there is a reason why he didnt relay this news to the media.

There's plenty of good reasons for being pissed-off at what Dick Cheney and his globalist elite masters are doing, but quail-hunting isn't one of them.

All the hunters that I have known in person use their game for food. Going quail-hunting is no different, in principle, than going to KFC--except that when one goes to KFC they are killing their bird by proxy.

[jt money]

Is it just me or does this remind anyone else of Wedding Crashers (though he got shot in the ass?)

[tubgirl]

i hunt for sport. i will never try to tell anyone i hunt for survival, and any hunter that says that is full of shit. take the money you spend on guns, tags, ammo, clothes, etc, and you can buy a shitload of beef.

i hunt because i like to, but i also eat everything i kill. small game (pheasant, squirrel, rabbit) and large game (turkey, deer)

[Quinn]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Felicia,

While I have always enjoyed the humor and intellect reflected in your posts, I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Legend. If you look at the history of his interactions with other members of this forum, you will quickly notice that he has a very lengthy record of combative relationships with a wide range of members. There are reasons for that, including logging in under alternative IDs to attack various members, making grossly uninformed statements, badmouthing this forum on other forums when he thought it would make him brownie points. In short, he contributes nothing that is genuine to this forum, but rather takes away from it. As such, I shall continue to deal with him in a manner appropriate to his general behavior and demonstrable lack of character.

-Quinn

[tubgirl]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Felicia,

While I have always enjoyed the humor and intellect reflected in your posts, I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Legend. If you look at the history of his interactions with other members of this forum, you will quickly notice that he has a very lengthy record of combative relationships with a wide range of members. There are reasons for that, including logging in under alternative IDs to attack various members, making grossly uninformed statements, badmouthing this forum on other forums when he thought it would make him brownie points. In short, he contributes nothing that is genuine to this forum, but rather takes away from it. As such, I shall continue to deal with him in a manner appropriate to his general behavior and demonstrable lack of character.

-Quinn

bravo

[Vicki Richter]

i just hate him:)

I even hate him. Does anyone like the guy?

[robbie]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Felicia, i am usually in full agreement with your posts. They are always articulate and well-considered and usually spot on.

I have to disagree, however, with your "bigger prey for the press to bag here" comments. There is no prey to bag here. It was an accident, pure and simple. But, Dick, being Dick, didn't want anybody to know about it. He want to play it down. He didn't want the press to run with it. He wanted to control it. And most importantly, Dick being Dick, he refused to be held accountable. Consequently, he made some horrific and damaging misjudgements in handling the press that has spiraled to a PR nightmare and has even pissed off the White House.

But this is typical behavior from Dick. We already know this about him. There is no story here. it is a dog bites man headline. The press needs to move on and keep their eye on the other mor important balls in the air. There are so many more issues of great consequence that need to be addressed - and Dick is at the heart of so many of them. They can't let this bad hunting nonsense distract them or the American people.

But, if we need to make an issue here, how about this one to consider: is it wise for the VP (or president) engage in activities like hunting in which it is so easy for a gun to be pointed, however inadvertantly, at the head of one of the leaders of the free world? What if it had been the veep's hunting buddy that shot at a bird low in the sky so that he hit Dick in the head and heart? (Libs, resist the the obvious comments of how happy you'd be and consider the question in the context it is raised - or, consider, what if it was Bubba that was shot inadvertantly?)

Sorry to disagree Felicia. I still love your posts and continue to look forward to them!

[tubgirl]

IMHO, most of the problem of this situation is the fact that cheney has never pandered to the media. he is the first vice president to not need them. he is not running for election, and he has already stated he doesn't like the press

[TrueBeauty TS]

I have to disagree, however, with your "bigger prey for the press to bag here" comments. There is no prey to bag here. It was an accident, pure and simple. But, Dick, being Dick, didn't want anybody to know about it. He want to play it down. He didn't want the press to run with it. He wanted to control it. And most importantly, Dick being Dick, he refused to be held accountable. Consequently, he made some horrific and damaging misjudgements in handling the press that has spiraled to a PR nightmare and has even pissed off the White House.

But this is typical behavior from Dick.


Yes, I'm sure he didn't want anybody to know about it, but too bad. When you shoot someone, you have a responsibility to own up to it and report it. Especially if you are the VP of the USA.

Now that he's had several days to get his story straight, put up safety nets, go over damage control with his team and has worked out what to say, he will now give a press conference. Coward. You're right, that is typical behavior from Dick. He should have been a man and just owned up to it, take resposibility for it and say he's sorry. Being forced to do so several days after the fact doesn't look too sincere.

I just heard that he was hunting on land owned by lobbiests. If this is true, isn't that bigger prey for us to know about? Should the VP be that cozy with them? Does he work for the people of this country or for the lobbiests? (I think we already know the answer, unfortunately.)

[Legend]

maybe its just me, but it seemed pretty obvious that he meant defenseless, and that the point he was making about killing, just for sport, was a valid one. Whether you support it or not, real hunting involves skill and risk and wiles. My understanding is that Cheney and his group drove to a field, got out of the car, and walked a short distance to shoot at pen raised birds, that are released just to be killed. Hardly very sporting.
http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/wayne_pacelle_the_animal_advocate/cheneys_canned_kill_and_other_hunting_excesses_of_ the_bush_administration.html
and whether you support them or not, making fun of someone's communications skills, when they are trying to legitimately add to the discussion is not very sporting either.

The bigger prey for the press to bag here is why did it take over 18 hours for the White House to bring this to the attention of the American people? and why did they do that by having someone outside the administration tell a local newspaper? And why did the Secret Service prevent local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney until the following day?

No pun intended, but the official White House story is full of holes. The "explanations" for what was transparently public relations triage and first aid, at best, and some sort of cover up at worst, make no sense. . As they say down in Texas, that dog won't hunt.

FK

Felicia,

While I have always enjoyed the humor and intellect reflected in your posts, I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Legend. If you look at the history of his interactions with other members of this forum, you will quickly notice that he has a very lengthy record of combative relationships with a wide range of members. There are reasons for that, including logging in under alternative IDs to attack various members, making grossly uninformed statements, badmouthing this forum on other forums when he thought it would make him brownie points. In short, he contributes nothing that is genuine to this forum, but rather takes away from it. As such, I shall continue to deal with him in a manner appropriate to his general behavior and demonstrable lack of character.

-Quinn

All the stuff you described i've never done and it is bs that you would accuse me of that shit without showing any kind of proof. i've never bashed you or anybody on this site. If you can prove any of that shit i would leave this forum.

[Legend]

i just hate him:)

I even hate him. Does anyone like the guy?


Your joking right.

[TrueBeauty TS]

IMHO, most of the problem of this situation is the fact that cheney has never pandered to the media. he is the first vice president to not need them. he is not running for election, and he has already stated he doesn't like the press

Do you mean pandering or answering questions?

It doesn't matter if he likes the press or not. In case everyone has forgotten, he is supposed to be working for us, the people of the U.S. He has a responsibility to inform the public, answer questions and be held accountable for things he's done.


Although he is above the law, he shouldn't be.

[tubgirl]

IMHO, most of the problem of this situation is the fact that cheney has never pandered to the media. he is the first vice president to not need them. he is not running for election, and he has already stated he doesn't like the press

Do you mean pandering or answering questions?

It doesn't matter if he likes the press or not. In case everyone has forgotten, he is supposed to be working for us, the people of the U.S. He has a responsibility to inform the public, answer questions and be held accountable for things he's done.


Although he is above the law, he shouldn't be.

ok, i'll answer that. on this instance, there are no questions to answer.

other than the fact of breaking a cardinal rule of hunting (and, from what i hear, not having a tag) this is no big deal. let's blow this out of proportion, shall we... :roll:

[Jamie Michelle]

IMHO, most of the problem of this situation is the fact that cheney has never pandered to the media. he is the first vice president to not need them. he is not running for election, and he has already stated he doesn't like the press

Do you mean pandering or answering questions?

It doesn't matter if he likes the press or not. In case everyone has forgotten, he is supposed to be working for us, the people of the U.S. He has a responsibility to inform the public, answer questions and be held accountable for things he's done.


Although he is above the law, he shouldn't be.

ok, i'll answer that. on this instance, there are no questions to answer.

other than the fact of breaking a cardinal rule of hunting (and, from what i hear, not having a tag) this is no big deal. let's blow this out of proportion, shall we... :roll:

Shooting someone is pretty serious, especially when one lies about the circumstances surrounding the event, as Cheney has done. The claimed 30 yard distance is impossible given the reported tight shot pattern and the depth of penetration of Harry Whittington. The shot could only have come from a much closer distance.

Texas police have complained that they weren't allowed access to Cheney for 14.5 hours, i.e., long enough for Cheney to sober up if he had been drinking when he shot Harry Whittington; and also long enough to get a story together. If Cheney was inebriated when he shot Harry Whittington then the case for criminal negligence under Texas state law would be open-and-shut.

[robbie]

I have to disagree, however, with your "bigger prey for the press to bag here" comments. There is no prey to bag here. It was an accident, pure and simple. But, Dick, being Dick, didn't want anybody to know about it. He want to play it down. He didn't want the press to run with it. He wanted to control it. And most importantly, Dick being Dick, he refused to be held accountable. Consequently, he made some horrific and damaging misjudgements in handling the press that has spiraled to a PR nightmare and has even pissed off the White House.

But this is typical behavior from Dick.


Yes, I'm sure he didn't want anybody to know about it, but too bad. When you shoot someone, you have a responsibility to own up to it and report it. Especially if you are the VP of the USA.

Now that he's had several days to get his story straight, put up safety nets, go over damage control with his team and has worked out what to say, he will now give a press conference. Coward. You're right, that is typical behavior from Dick. He should have been a man and just owned up to it, take resposibility for it and say he's sorry. Being forced to do so several days after the fact doesn't look too sincere.

I just heard that he was hunting on land owned by lobbiests. If this is true, isn't that bigger prey for us to know about? Should the VP be that cozy with them? Does he work for the people of this country or for the lobbiests? (I think we already know the answer, unfortunately.)

Nobody is questioning that the incident wasn't reported. The local authorities were, by all accounts I have seen, properly informed in a timely fashion. As far as we know, there is no evidence that he broke any laws (other than missing one endorsement stamp on his license which warranted a warning, just the sam as any hunter would have received.)

The issue is about when and how the press were informed. Not illegal, just piss-poor PR. So, my point is, we know Dick hates the press, so why carp on it. Focus on more important matters.

The lobbiest thing would be worrisome except that - as I understand it, it is just one family member who is a lobbiest and she handles PR for the lobbying firm she works for and does no direct lobbying has had no dealings with Dick in that regard. If there is more to that part of the story, I haven't heard it, and it might change things.

And, yes, absolutely, he should have stood up right away and said, "my god, it was a terrible accident. I feel absolutely horrible about it. I made a mistake that an experienced hunter such as myself should never had made and now my good friend is in the hospital. I am sorry. And I ask that everyone pray with me for his speedy recovery." Or something like that. Anything he says from this point on will just seem very hollow.

I am outta here.

[Jamie Michelle]

I have to disagree, however, with your "bigger prey for the press to bag here" comments. There is no prey to bag here. It was an accident, pure and simple. But, Dick, being Dick, didn't want anybody to know about it. He want to play it down. He didn't want the press to run with it. He wanted to control it. And most importantly, Dick being Dick, he refused to be held accountable. Consequently, he made some horrific and damaging misjudgements in handling the press that has spiraled to a PR nightmare and has even pissed off the White House.

But this is typical behavior from Dick.


Yes, I'm sure he didn't want anybody to know about it, but too bad. When you shoot someone, you have a responsibility to own up to it and report it. Especially if you are the VP of the USA.

Now that he's had several days to get his story straight, put up safety nets, go over damage control with his team and has worked out what to say, he will now give a press conference. Coward. You're right, that is typical behavior from Dick. He should have been a man and just owned up to it, take resposibility for it and say he's sorry. Being forced to do so several days after the fact doesn't look too sincere.

I just heard that he was hunting on land owned by lobbiests. If this is true, isn't that bigger prey for us to know about? Should the VP be that cozy with them? Does he work for the people of this country or for the lobbiests? (I think we already know the answer, unfortunately.)

Nobody is questioning that the incident wasn't reported. The local authorities were, by all accounts I have seen, properly informed in a timely fashion. As far as we know, there is no evidence that he broke any laws (other than missing one endorsement stamp on his license which warranted a warning, just the sam as any hunter would have received.)

The issue is about when and how the press were informed. Not illegal, just piss-poor PR. So, my point is, we know Dick hates the press, so why carp on it. Focus on more important matters.

The lobbiest thing would be worrisome except that - as I understand it, it is just one family member who is a lobbiest and she handles PR for the lobbying firm she works for and does no direct lobbying has had no dealings with Dick in that regard. If there is more to that part of the story, I haven't heard it, and it might change things.

And, yes, absolutely, he should have stood up right away and said, "my god, it was a terrible accident. I feel absolutely horrible about it. I made a mistake that an experienced hunter such as myself should never had made and now my good friend is in the hospital. I am sorry. And I ask that everyone pray with me for his speedy recovery." Or something like that. Anything he says from this point on will just seem very hollow.

I am outta here.

As I said above, shooting someone is pretty serious, especially when one lies about the circumstances surrounding the event, as Cheney has done. The claimed 30 yard distance is impossible given the reported tight shot pattern and the depth of penetration of Harry Whittington. The shot could only have come from a much closer distance.

Texas police have complained that they weren't allowed access to Cheney for 14.5 hours, i.e., long enough for Cheney to sober up if he had been drinking when he shot Harry Whittington; and also long enough to get a story together. If Cheney was inebriated when he shot Harry Whittington then the case for criminal negligence under Texas state law would be open-and-shut.

[Vicki Richter]

I am curious since someone brought this up... What would happen if the Vice-President shot the President in a hunting accident? Would he still get the job?

[Jamie Michelle]

I am curious since someone brought this up... What would happen if the Vice-President shot the President in a hunting accident? Would he still get the job?

Yes, in that scenario the Vice President would become President (i.e., assuming the President were killed or incapacitated), unless he were impeached or convicted due to the shooting.

[chefmike]

If the dick's crony happens to croak, then laura bush won't be the only person in shrubya's whitehouse responsible for a friend's death...

And it goes without saying that he won't be charged either...

[Janus]

God, all those Republican chicks look like T-Girls, weird!

I have a theory about Michelle Malkin being a T-girl...

Anyway, that photo collage was a cheap shot and proves nothing. I bet I could do the opposite and find 10 Republican hags and 10 Democratic hotties.

[Janus]

I am curious since someone brought this up... What would happen if the Vice-President shot the President in a hunting accident? Would he still get the job?

First of all, the idea that the Seekrit Service would let a sitting VP anywhere near a sitting President with a gun or weapon is pretty funny... anyway, under Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, as amended by the 25th Amendment, the VP takes over faster than you can say "constitutional crisis".

It's interesting to think about whether a sitting VP could be indicted for manslaughter or even assault... this same issue came up when there was consideration of indicting Clinton for his various, um, peccadilloes, and the Independent Counsel wasn't at all sure whether a sitting President could be indicted.

:?:

[tubgirl]

jesus christ, why wasn't this much fuss made over teddy kennedy?

[smarterthanmost]

Guns are OK, we wouldn't have America if they weren't....if we didn't have guns, we would all be sleeping in teepee's & BTW, we had to teach the south a lesson too!

Leave the VP alone, besides, he is just trying to help solve the bird flu epidemic!

[chefmike]

Jesus Christ, why wasn't this much fuss made over teddy Kennedy?

reich-winger's have never stopped making a fuss over Ted when they want to obscure a more relevant issue, it usually occurs when they want to change the subject from repug party crimes...

Get over it, already...Ted was a better swimmer...

[tubgirl]

and nobody cared that he let a whole day go by before he said anything....


and btw, i'm not a "reich-winger"

[Felicia Katt]

jesus christ, why wasn't this much fuss made over teddy kennedy?
you are kidding, right? its been over 30 years and its still being raised, and you think there was no fuss? Kennedy plead guilty to leaving the scene of the accident, and was investigated and exonerated of other charges by a grand jury. Cheney shoots a man in the face, alcohol may have been involved, he doesn't talk to police until the next day, they don't notify the media until 18 hours after the shooting, the Press secretary, while cracking off color jokes about hunter's orange, fails to mention that the victim is back in intensive care, and Cheney doesn't meet with the press until 4 days later, and then only meets with Fox news, and you think there is nothing to fuss about? Kennedy has 30 years of it and Cheney is being treated unfairly after just 4 days? Amazing.

FK

[Janus]

jesus christ, why wasn't this much fuss made over teddy kennedy?
Because in 1968 they didn't have 24-hour news coverage, the "internets", the WWW, and, most importantly, Fox News. heh. I just loved seeing Dick bare his soul to Fox News...

[Felicia Katt]

Felicia, i am usually in full agreement with your posts. They are always articulate and well-considered and usually spot on.

Dick, being Dick, didn't want anybody to know about it. He want to play it down. He didn't want the press to run with it. He wanted to control it. And most importantly, Dick being Dick, he refused to be held accountable. Consequently, he made some horrific and damaging misjudgements in handling the press that has spiraled to a PR nightmare and has even pissed off the White House.

Sorry to disagree Felicia. I still love your posts and continue to look forward to them!
Thanks for the compliments, but you seem to be agreeing with me in spite of yourself. Cheney has no right to conceal something like this. He has no right to try to control the media. And he certainly is not above the law and therefore has no right to refuse to be held accountable. If you or I shot someone in the face, we wouldn't get to schedule when we talked to the police. If we tried to, we might face charges of obstruction of justice. If we were involved in a hunting accident, and an eyewitness said there may be alcohol involved, we would be blowing into a straw, not blowing off a sheriff until the next day. I said, at best, this was an awkward case of PR first aid. And we all know PR is mainly smoke and mirrors. But in this case, where this is this much smoke, I think there may be some fire. And Cheney should face some heat.

FK

[hondarobot]

Well, let's be honest, Chappaquiddick does trump Cheney carelessly blasting his buddy with a low power shotgun. I'm just saying.

I hate Cheney, think he's a vile bastard and his conduct on this matter has been yet another humiliation for the administration. But he didn't swim away and hide out after a drunken car accident, leaving a girl to drown. That sucked and Teddy should have been held more accountable. Honestly, he still should be.

I'm not steering towards the right, but if you want to compair those particular incidents, there is a definate difference.

[Quinn]

I hate Cheney, think he's a vile bastard and his conduct on this matter has been yet another humiliation for the administration. But he didn't swim away and hide out after a drunken car accident, leaving a girl to drown. That sucked and Teddy should have been held more accountable. Honestly, he still should be.

I can't stand Cheney, and I'm glad to see the press go after him. Last night, I received a call from a friend in London telling my how the Europeans are laughing hysterically over this whole thing. Yet another embarrassing episode brought to our nation by this grossly incompetent administration Pretzel anyone???

Still, I have to agree with Honda that Teddy is an ass, too. From my perspective, he is as big a hypocrite as those I hate in the current administration. Every time I hear this silver spoon – who couldn't tell me the price of a gallon of milk if his life depended on it – declare how he's working for the poor, I just laugh. If you are poor and rely upon either party to help you out of poverty, you are a fool. It's all on you. Thus ends my rant for the day.

-Quinn

[chefmike]

good stuff from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-cheney-shooting-a-fe_b_15898.html

The Cheney Shooting: A Few Questions Before the Circus Folds Its Tent
Arianna Huffington

So the president is "satisfied" with Dick Cheney's "strong and powerful" explanation of the Whittington shooting, and the Kenedy Country Sheriff's Department considers the case closed.

Maybe I'm just a harder sell, but there are still a number of unanswered questions that I'd like to see answered before the circus folds up its tent and moves on (especially since, as Tim Grieve points out, the sheriff's investigation wasn't exactly a model of thoroughness).



Here are just some of the loose ends still dangling:

The Distance and the Damage Done. Cheney is sticking to his claim that he blasted Whittington from roughly 30 yards away, but hunting experts and gun enthusiasts continue to be skeptical that Whittington would have sustained the injuries he did from that distance. Which is it?

Tastes Great, Less Killing. Cheney says he had a beer with lunch. Whittington says no one was drinking during the hunt. Katherine Armstrong can't keep her story straight -- at first it was "None, zero, zippo... No one was drinking." Then "there may be a beer or two in there..." Was alcohol a factor in the accident? The 14-and-a-half-hour delay in meeting with the sheriff means we'll never know about Cheney's blood alcohol level, but why won't the hospital say if Whittington's blood corroborates his no-drinking claim? Why won't doctors even say whether Whittington was given a blood alcohol test?

Eyewitness or Just Making it Up? When explaining to Brit Hume why he felt Katharine Armstrong was "an excellent choice" to put the shooting story out, Cheney said: "First of all, she was an eyewitness. She'd seen the whole thing." But had she really? As emptywheel points out [via kos], odds are she didn't see the accident at all. So was she an eyewitness who'd seen the whole thing or just the designated teller of the agreed-upon tale?

Justice Delayed is Justice Denied. Cheney has offered a host of reasons for the 14-and-a-half-hour delay in meeting with the police -- but none of them hold water. His explanations for the 18-hour delay in notifying the press are even more porous. And why didn't the sheriff insist on a more timely investigation? Kos diarist BarbinMD makes Kennedy County Sheriff Ramon Salinas sound like the second coming of Barney Fife.

Armed and Dangerous. Hume called Cheney a "seasoned hunter". So why, by his own admission, was he shooting downward when he blasted Whittington in the face? "The idea behind quail hunting," a South Texas hunting guide told the Washington Post, "is that you have to hit the quail when it's about five to ten feet in the air... Nobody should be shooting down." So was the VP buzzed, reckless, or just trying to get an unfair advantage on a pathetic bird?

You're Making Me Dizzy. Cheney told Hume that he had turned to his right before blasting Whittington but the sheriff's report says that Cheney turned counterclockwise. An honest mistake... or another sign that Deputy Fife and his men didn't exactly give the incident the CSI treatment?

Whatever You Do, Don't Roll Tape. And, finally, just why did Whittington -- a lawyer, after all -- refuse to let the deputies questioning him about the shooting tape-record the interview? Then again, this is the same guy who felt it was necessary to apologize to the man who shot him, so we probably shouldn't be surprised that he wanted to leave the record as ambiguous as possible.

UPDATE: Michele Reiner suggests we add a “That’s What Friends Are For?” loose end: Why didn’t Cheney immediately go to the hospital with the friend he had just shot instead of staying at the ranch for dinner and drinks?

Links for matters concerning the above article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-cheney-shooting-a-fe_b_15898.html

[chefmike]

One more...fuckin priceless!!!!!!!

One of the Worst Days of Dick Cheney's Life
Kevin Hench

It was, by his own admission, "one of the worst days of his life."

Not, by any stretch, the worst, but certainly one of the worst.

As he agonized over whether or not to accept Harry Whittington's apology for having the temerity to get his face in front of the veep's birdshot, Vice-President Dick Cheney recounted some of the other dark days that helped put this latest episode in perspective.


Here, laid out in chronological order by Mr. Cheney, are his 10 worst days.

1978 - The first heart attack

Oh, boy, you never forget your first. That one came up on me out of nowhere. I guess the stress of running the presidential campaign of the guy who pardoned Nixon finally caught up to me. A couple of the later heart attacks would be more painful and more debilitating, but there's just something about your first heart attack that really gets you down. I know I sure got moody. At one point I remember barking at the doctors, "Damn it, just tell me what I have to do so I'll only have to experience this four or five more times!"

1983 - Cheney votes with the majority to make Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday a national holiday

To be honest, this day is tough to talk about. I get it from both sides on this one. For the record, I voted against this holiday in 1979 and people who know me know where I stand. Did I flip-flop? Look, I could read the writing on the wall. But was it a mistake to reverse my position? Absolutely. Particularly given that the very people I was trying to curry favor with turned out to be so typically ungrateful. Well, guess what: every day is now Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday in the ninth ward of New Orleans. Hope you're enjoying the jobless, wageless, shelterless recovery. A-holes.

1984 - The second heart attack

It took a while to hit me that not only did Martin Luther King, Jr. have a national holiday named after him, but I had actually voted for it. As you can imagine, this put a real strain on the old ticker. It was scary, sure, but I'll always have a soft spot for this heart attack. This was the one that grabbed me by the neck and said, "Don't be a pansy. The next time you get a chance to vote up or down on someone considered a hero by black people, do the right thing." That's how I took it anyway. Funny thing is I'd never even heard of Nelson Mandela.

1985 - The U.S. House votes to ban "cop-killer" bullets

I like to call it National Cowards' Day, 1985. Only 20 of my 434 colleagues in the House of Representatives had the balls to join me in opposing the ban on armor-piercing bullets, dubbed by the liberal media elite as "cop-killer" bullets. One day they're telling you guns kill people, the next day it's bullets. The point is they will say anything to attack the American sportsman's way of life. A very sad day.

1988 - The third heart attack

This one had some bite to it. The quadruple bypass that followed was no picnic either. But being hospitalized after having your third heart attack before your 48th birthday does provide an opportunity for contemplative reflection. And a pansy might do just that. But I took this opportunity to noodle on ways to parlay my public service into a bonanza in the private sector. After they uncranked my ribcage and closed me up, it came to me almost in a dream: public money... private sector... no-bid contracts... corporate donors... My toughest but most productive heart attack.

1988 - House votes to ban plastic guns

This day was even worse than National Cowards' Day. This time, of the 435 so-called Americans in the House, only three joined me in opposing a ban on plastic guns that could slip through airport security machines. Even the NRA turned all namby-pamby on me on this one, failing to oppose the ban. I wept when I saw these 431 radicals gathering in the well of the House to relieve themselves on the second amendment to the Constitution.

1990 - Nelson Mandela freed

Imagine how you'd feel if all the work you'd done to earn the nickname "Apartheid's Congressman" had come to nothing? Am I proud to have voted against calling for the release of Mr. Mandela? You're damn right I am. When I think about him walking out of that prison after 27 years - in that light brown suit - so smugly... it pisses me off all over again. Look, the African National Congress was a terrorist organization, the very kind of people we would have had to keep plastic guns from if the U.S. Congress hadn't already surrendered our country's right to defend itself.

2000 - The fourth heart attack

Nov. 22, 2000, I remember it well. With those liberal activist judges in Florida threatening to count all the votes, is it any wonder my motor started knocking? (Note to self: Explore legal action against Florida Supreme Court.) Luckily, thanks to my doctors and five friends on the U.S. Supreme Court, what could have been the worst and last day of my life turned out just fine. November 22nd. I remember telling the docs to at least keep me on life support until midnight so I wouldn't be a footnote every year when the liberal media elite renew their love affair with Camelot. Talk about dodging a bullet.

2006 - Libby implicates Cheney

I have to admit it, the day that commie prosecutor flipped my pal made me want to shoot someone in the face. If Scooter didn't keep rejecting my hunting invitations, I'd have a chance to give him that "I know it was you, Scooter" kiss on the lips. The really sad part is he didn't have to betray me to save his skin because I had already decided to retroactively and unilaterally declassify the information I instructed him to blab to his ferret at the New York Times. Scooter panicked. It happens. But it will never be right between us.

Date unknown - "Mom, Dad, I have something to tell you."

Yeah, we thought ol' Mary had wandered pretty far off the reservation on that dark day. But after we sat down and discussed just how much (or how little) of my $43M in Halliburton money could possibly be hers one day, she decided to play ball. Smart kid. A lot of out-of-the-mainstream liberals have accused her of being self-loathing, but she's not. It's other gay people she hates. And that, more than anything else, has deepened the bond between us.

So you can see, while shooting Harry was one of the worst days of my life, it certainly wasn't the worst, or even in the top 10. I'd put it somewhere between that day when my fourth deferment from Vietnam was initially denied and that weird day when Tim Russert had the impertinence to press me for a clarification.

But it was pretty bad. Still, I'm going to take the high road and accept Harry's apology.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-hench/one-of-the-worst-days-of-_b_15909.html

[chefmike]

The Ranch Where the Politicians Roam
By RICK LYMAN and ANNE E. KORNBLUT


Published: February 19, 2006
ARMSTRONG, Tex.


MORE than a century before it became the scene of a vice presidential hunting accident, this humble stretch of property had connections to another gun incident.

On a manhunt in 1877, a hard-bitten Texas ranger named John B. Armstrong captured the notorious outlaw John Wesley Hardin after what the officer later described in a telegram back home as a "lively shooting" aboard a train in Florida. The capture made a hero of Mr. Armstrong, who bought a 50,000-acre plot from the owners of an old Spanish land grant using, according to one account, the $4,000 reward from the capture of the notorious gunman. When Mr. Armstrong died there in 1913, the land passed down to his heirs and soon was known by the family name.

Vice President Cheney's mishap on the property last weekend drew the curtain back on a place that has become a quiet destination for the powerful, rivaling Hyannisport, Kennebunkport and the Hamptons as a setting where important relationships have been nurtured. The rise of the Armstrong Ranch, and its even larger and more famous neighbor next door, the King Ranch, is as much a story of the rise of the Republican party in Texas, and George W. Bush as it is about the Armstrong family itself.

Over the last five decades, the Republican pilgrimage to the Armstrong Ranch has become a familiar ritual, dating back to the 1950's, when John Armstrong's descendant Tobin and his wife, Anne, first became active in Republican politics, putting them at the center of a small circle in a time when most Texans were still yellow dog Democrats. The South Texas property became a meeting place for rising political figures.

Now their children — including their daughter Katharine, who called her local newspaper to disclose the vice president's shooting of Harry M. Whittington — have inherited the perch. And even though Tobin Armstrong died at age 82 last year, invitations to the Armstrong Ranch remain sacred in Republican circles in the state — and are almost sure to remain so in the days ahead despite the site's recent infamy.

"When you say, 'I've been hunting with the Armstrongs,' or 'I've been down on the Armstrong Ranch,' that implies a certain level of status and insiderness," said Harvey Kronberg, the editor of The Quorum Report, the statewide political news publication. "The ranch itself is kind of a rite of passage for Texas Republicans. You go pay homage."

And many have paid their respects over the years — the Bushes and the Cheneys, Karl Rove, James A. Baker III, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison and Gov. Rick Perry, have all been cited as participating in hunting trips or other social functions at the Armstrong Ranch. Mr. Cheney, in his one interview after the accident, made certain to note that Mr. Rove has also hunted there, declaring that both he and Mr. Rove are "good friends of the Armstrongs."

"If it could ever be said that a man could walk with kings yet keep the common touch, it was Tobin Armstrong," Mr. Cheney said at the funeral, according to the accounts at the time. The first lady, Laura Bush, also attended; three years earlier, when the British queen mother died, Anne and Tobin Armstrong accompanied Mrs. Bush as part of the United States delegation.

more of this repug expose at the link below...I certainly hope that our HA "log cabin" repug regulars don't get their hopes up for an invite, unless they know the dick's daughter, that is...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/weekinreview/19kornblut.html?ex=1298005200&en=47d77062302dc443&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[chefmike]

Bring Back Spiro Agnew-Indict Cheney
Martin Garbus

Spiro Agnew was just a relatively small-time stupid crook who resigned in disgrace. Compared to Cheney, he looks good.

After all, Agnew (I want to speak well of the dead) was not a leaker.

Richard Cheney is far worse. The money he has made, through his thirty years in and out of the government, his energy investments and other sources probably sets a record.

Compared to him, Agnew was a piker.

But there is a more important question. Why is there not now a separate Grand Jury investigation of Cheney's release of false classified information to get us into the Iraq war and to justify Abu Ghraib, wrongful detentions and antiterror attacks, the extent of which we do not know and probably will never know. This investigation of Cheney is not within the scope of federal prosecutor Pat Fitzgerald investigating Plamegate.

The New York Times, we know, is under investigation for the NSA leak that caused no damage. Cheney's did cause damage.

It's hard to imagine a more serious leak than Cheney's. The last "leaker," Daniel Ellsberg, in 1971, was prosecuted to the hilt for releasing the classified information in the Pentagon Papers. He faced multiple life sentences for releasing information about how we got into the Vietnam War and the failure of our foreign policy.

It was history -- old stuff -- it was not used to get us into a war with an extraordinary cost in men, Iraqi women, men and children, money, as well as the loss of substantial civil liberties in this country. It was not used to justify a failed plan to kill people and to spread democracy.

Ellsberg released it openly. He defended the reason for its release. His unquestioned purpose was to avoid future wars. Ellsberg said it will save lives, not lose them. He said the First Amendment allowed him to publish it. Ellsberg stood ready to face severe criminal punishment and he did.

Cheney released it surreptitiously. He takes no responsibility for it. Not noted for his defense of constitutional rights, he utilizes the First Amendment's journalistic privilege, the same First Amendment rights he denies to millions of others.

His false information had awful results.

And this administration does nothing, nothing.

And the Democrats say nothing, nothing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/bring-back-spiro-agnew-_b_15822.html

[Jamie Michelle]

"Updated: Scientific Proof Cheney's Shooting Story a Lie--Harry Whittington Shooting Ballistics Tested, Cheney shot at Whittington from 15 feet not 90 as claimed," Alex Jones, Infowars, February 16, 2006:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/cheney_shooting_scientific_proof.htm

[blahblahblah]

http://www.break.com/index/cheneygun.html

[Aedan]

Cheney is the VP of the USA. If Bush dies he is the boss.
That is actually funny. Cheney being the boss of the USA. A number one.

[chefmike]

Cheney is the VP of the USA. If Bush dies he is the boss.
That is actually funny. Cheney being the boss of the USA. A number one.

Thanks for enlightening us, moron.

And aedan ... one question - how do you keep a moron in suspense?

I'll tell you tomorrow...

[chefmike]

deja vu, anyone?

[Aedan]

Cheney is the VP of the USA. If Bush dies he is the boss.
That is actually funny. Cheney being the boss of the USA. A number one.

Thanks for enlightening us, moron.

And aedan ... one question - how do you keep a moron in suspense?

I'll tell you tomorrow...

You elected the guy you stupid moron.
How much is the national debt now? How many slodiers are killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Your to blame stupid, you elected the guy.
But is that important to you??? Hell no you have 1800 posts, you have to be here quoting newsarticles and being an asshole.


Litlle telltale, little telltale nanananananana. Don't you have anyone to rat out??

[chefmike]

imbecilic drivel

:trolls

[blahblahblah]

imbecilic drivel

:trolls

Why are You so depressive all the time? I can cheer You up. Just bend over for me and close Your eyes..

[chefmike]

imbecilic drivel

:trolls

Why are You so depressive all the time? I can cheer You up. Just bend over for me and close Your eyes..

No thanks McTroll...but maybe you can make a love connection with your fellow troll aedan the village idiot....if you're into piss and scat like him you two should really hit it off...best of luck, McTroll!

[blahblahblah]

imbecilic drivel

:trolls

Why are You so depressive all the time? I can cheer You up. Just bend over for me and close Your eyes..

No thanks McTroll...but maybe you can make a love connection with your fellow troll aedan the village idiot....if you're into piss and scat like him you two should really hit it off...best of luck, McTroll!



No, but me got better idea: Me and Aedan can just double team you in order to make you feel better. How about that? Do you swallow?

Row, row, row your boat.....